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A29432 A dissuasive from the errours of the time wherein the tenets of the principall sects, especially of the Independents, are drawn together in one map, for the most part in the words of their own authours, and their maine principles are examined by the touch-stone of the Holy Scriptures / by Robert Baylie ... Baillie, Robert, 1599-1662. 1645 (1645) Wing B456; ESTC R200539 238,349 276

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which they do belong neither do we know any such thing to be appointed by Christ our Lord for the maintenance of the Ministry in these dayes the bringing in of settled endowments and eminent Preferments into the Church hath been the corruption and to some the destruction of such as lived by them both Church-Officers and Church-members qqqq Cottons Way p. 38. The Deacons were elected and ordained for the serving at Tables to wit the serving of all these Tables which pertained to the Church to provide for which are the Lords Table the Tables of the Ministers or Elders of the Church and the Tables of the poore Brethren whither of their own body or strangers for the maintaining whereof we doe not appoint them to goe up and down to collect the benevolences of abler brethren but as the Apostles received the oblations of the brethren brought and laid down at their feet and thereby made distribution as the use of the Church required so the Deacons receive the oblations of the brethren every Lords day brought unto them and laid down before them and distribute the same as the need of the Church doth require rrrr Ibid. ssss Plaine-dealing p. 19. At some other places they make a rate upon every man as well within as not of the Church residing with them towards the Churches occasions and others are beholding now and then to the generall Court to study wayes to enforce the mantenance of the Ministry tttt Antap. p. 276. Have you not carried a greater port then most of the godly Ministers in the City or Countrey have not some of you the prime Lectures of the City and other good places of advantage and profit besides what some of you have from your own Churches Vide supra Chap. 4. wwww Bastwicks Independency p. 142.143 It is well known and can sufficiently be proved that godly Christians of holy conversation against whom they had no exception either for doctrine or manners and who offered themselves to be admitted members upon their own conditions and yet were not suffered to be joyned members onely because they were poore and this very reason was given them for their not-admission that they would not have their Church over-burdened with poore Ibid. It was replyed that the Congregation of which he was Pastor consisted of great Personages Knights Ladies and rich Merchants and such people as they being but poore could not walk so sutably with them wherefore he perswaded them to joyn themselves with some other Congregation among poore people where they might better walk and more confortably in fellowship with them xxxx Plaine-dealing p. 16. The Pastor begins with solemn prayer continu●ing about a quarter of an houre the Teacher then readeth and expoundeth a Chapter then a Psalme is sung which ever one of the ruling Elders dictates after that the Pastor preacheth a Sermon and sometimes ex tempore exhortes then the Teacher concludes with prayer and a blessing yyyy Cottons Way p. 66. First then when we come into the Church according to the Apostles direction 1 Tim. 1. We make prayers and intercessions and thanksgivings for our selves and all men zzzz I have heard the chiefe of our Brethren maintaine this publikely and I understand it is the practice of some of them in the City aaaaa Cottons Catechisme p. 6. Where there bee more Prophets besides the Elders they may Prophesie two or three if the time permit the Elders calling to them whither in the same Church or others if they have any word of exhortation to the people to say on bbbbb Ibid. And for the bettering of a mans selfe or others it may be lawfull for either young or old save only for women to aske questions from the mouth of the Prophets ccccc Answer to the 32 quest p. 78. Some think the people have a liberty to aske their questions publikely for their better satisfaction upon very urgent and weighty cause though even this is doubted of by others and all judge the ordinary practice of it not necessary but if it be not meekly and wisely carried to be inconvenient if not utterly unlawfull and therfore such asking of questions is seldom used in any Church among us and in most Churches never ddddd Anatom p. 26. In the matter of singing of Psalms they differ not only from us but are also at variance among themselves some thinking it unlawfull for any to sing but he who preacheth and this hath been the late practice at Arnheim others thinking it unlawfull for women to sing in the Congregation hence some women at Rotterdam doe not sing I heare also they think it unfit for any at all in such times of the Churches trouble as this eeeee Ibid. fffff Vide supra Chap. 4. SS 1. ggggg If the question be of joyning in some few selected prayers read by an able and faithfull Minister out of the book as of the one side we are tender of imputing sinnes to these that so joyne Vide infra hhhhh hhhhh To that part of the Directory which recommends the use of the Lords Prayer they did enter no dissent an Answer to the 32 Questions p. 55. By a Liturgie and forme of prayer we suppose you meane not a forme of private prayer composed for the help of the weaker as for a forme of prayer in generall we conceive your meaning cannot be of that for it is evident that many Preachers constantly use a set forme of prayer of their owne making before their Sermons with whom the people refuse not to joyne ibid. p. 59. Wee acknowledge the Lords Prayer and other formes set downe in Scripture may be lawfully used as prayers due cautions being observed Cottons pouring out of the spirit p. 10. Not that I would discourage any poore soule from praying on a Book for I think as we may sing Psalms on a Book so we may in some cases pray on a Book iiiii Vide supra s Also see the Petition of the Inhabitants of the Colony of the Sommer Islands p. 2. Our children die unbaptized our selves are deprived of the Lords Supper our daughters cannot be given in marriage kkkkk Plain Dealing p. 40. At New Plymouth Mr Chancey stands for dipping in Baptism only necessary lllll Cottons Catechism p. 4. What manner of men hath God appointed to be received as members of his Church Answ Such as doe willingly offer themselves first to the Lord and then to the Church by confessing of their sins c. mmmmm This wee heare is their ordinary practice at London nnnnn Vide supra Chap. 4. Q R ooooo Vide supra ibid. ppppp This is the Apologists common profession qqqqq This also they professe as a cleare consequent of the former rrrrr Cottons way p. 68. The Lords Supper we administer for the gesture to the people sitting according as Christ administred it to his Disciples sitting Matth. 20.26 who also made a symbolicall use of it to teach the Church their majority over their Ministers in some cases and their Iudiciall
God even as a dead dog Truely I am ashamed to write of so grosse and filthy abominations so generally received even of all States of these parts of the world who of a Popish Custom and Tradition have received it one of another without any warrant from the Word Ibid. p. 75. Other more smoothe hypocrites yet as grosse idolaters use the Lords Prayer as a close of their own M Canns Necessity of Separation p. 66. It is all one whether turning on the left hand we embrace the Idolatry of Bishops or turning on the other hand we follow the new devices of mens foolish brains for utter destruction certainly follows both N Robinsons Apologie p. 89. Quae nos ad Separationem solicitant ipsam Ecclesiae materialem formalem constitutionem ejusdemque politeiae administrationem essentialem spectant O Johns Enquiry p. 25. Seeing by the mercy of God we have seen and forsaken the corruptions which remain in the French and Dutch Churches we cannot partake with them in such case without apostacie from the Truth P Johns Plea p. 231. Every particular Church with their Pastors stand immediately under Christ the Arch-Pastor without any other strange Ecclesiastical power intervening whether it be of Prelates or other unlawful usurping Synods or of any such like invented by man and brought into the Church Barrows Dis p. 261. If we would but lightly examine these secret Classes these ordinary set Synods which the Reformists would openly set up they shall no doubt be found as new strange Antichristian and prejudicial to the Rights of the Church as contrary to the Gospel of Christ as the other what shew soever of former antiquity or present necessity they can pretend Idem Refut of Giff●rd p. 137. These are the antient Sects of the Pharisees and Sadduces the one in precisenesse outward shew of holinesse hypocrisie vain-glory and covetousnesse resembling or rather exceeding the Pharisees the other in their whole Religion and dissolute conversation like to the Sadduces looking for no Resurrection Judgement or life to come the one removing from place to place for their advantage and best entertainment in the errour of Ba'aam for wages seduce and distract the people of the Lord from their own Churches and Pastors Sions Royal Prerogative in the Preface Whereas the Papists place the power of Christ given to the Church in the Pope the Protestants in the Bishops the Reformed Churches as they are called in the Presbytery Neither of them hath right in this thing but contrarywise Christ hath given the said power of his to all his Saints and placed it in the Body of every particular Congregation Q 1. Robinsons Apol. p 83. Personas Episcoporum vel autoritatem qua potiuntur civilem in rebus vel civilibus vel etiam Ecclesiasticis non aversamur Q 2. Vide supra F. R 1. Bar. Dis p. 33. Such like detestable stuff hath Master Calvin in his ignorance brought to defend his own rash and disorderly proceedings at Geneva whiles he at the first dash made no scruple to receive the whole State into the bosome of the Church yea that which is worse and more to be lamented it became a miserable precedent and pernicious example to all Europe to fall in the like transgression as in the confused estate of all those Regions where the Gospel is thus orderly taught is more then plain R 2. Robins Apol. p. 7. Profitemur coram Deo hominibus adeo nobis convenire cum Ecclesus reformatis Belgicis in re Religionis ut omnibus singulis earundem Ecclesiarum fidei Articulis prout habentur in harmonia Confessionum fidei paratisimus subscribere Ibid. p. 11. Ecclesias reformatas pro veris genuinis habemus cum iisdem in sacris Dei Communionem profitemur quantum in nobis est colimus conciones publicas ab illarum pastoribus habitas ex nostris qui norunt Linguam Belgicam frequentant Sacram coenam earum membris si qua forte nostris coetibus intersint nobis cognita participamus Malis illarum serio ingemiscimus Apol. for the Brownists pag. 35. We are willing and ready to subscribe those Grounds of Religion published in the Confession of Faith made by the Church of Scotland hoping in the unity of the same Faith to be saved by Jesus Christ being also like minded in points of greatest moment with all other Reformed Churches and on the contrary for Anabaptists Familists and all other Heretikes new and old we utterly reject them and all their Errours and Heresies Johns plea. p. 245. I acknowledge the Reformed Churches to be the true Churches of Christ with whom I agree both in the Faith of Christ and in many things concerning the Order and Government of the Church R 3. Johns Inquiry p. 57. Having declined to divers Errors of the Dutch the Church did excommunicate him and so still he remains Ibid. p. 59. Yet it is false that we have excommunicate any for the hearing onely the Word preached among the Dutch or French for these that yet we have cast out here it hath been partly for revolting from the truth which they professed with us to the corruptions of those Churches and partly for other sins S The Confession p. 26. The state of the Dutch Church at Amsterdam is so confused that the whole Church can never come together in one they read out of a Book certain Prayers invented and imposed by man the command of Christ Matth. 18. they neither observe nor suffer to be observed rightly they worship God in the Idoll-Temples of Antichrist their Ministers have their set maintenance their Elders change yeerly they celebrate marriage in the Church they use a new censure of Suspension T Robins apol p. 81. Ecclesiae Anglicanae constitutio materialis est ex hominum flagitiosorum colluvie paucis si cum reliquis piis admistis conferantur V Canns necessity p. 167. He is to come himself into the publike Assembly all looking on him with love and joy as one that comes to be married and there he is to make publike Confession of his Faith to answer divers questions being found worthy by the consent of the whole he is to be taken into the Communion X Bar. dis p. 34. I have shewed that the known and suffered sin of any Member is contagious to all that communicate with them in that estate and maketh them which communicate in Prayers or Sacraments with such an obstinate offender as guilty in Gods sight as he himself is Y Bar. dis p. 34. I have shewed that the whole Church hath no power to dispence with the breach of the least Commandment and that such obstinate sin in the whole Church breaketh the Covenant with God and maketh it cease to be a Church or in Gods favour till it repent Z Vide supra X Y. AA Bar. dis p. 157. They make this part of Gods Word substantial that of Form this Fundamental that Accidental this necessary to Salvation that needlesse
any other and to be cut off as withred branches The Church cannot neither hath in her power to defer the sentence of Excommunication any longer on hope of further tryal because they have had already that tryal which God alloweth it is a Leaden rule to proceed to the sentence of Excommunication with a Leaden-heel when the sin is ripe Ibid. p. 15. Which censures if the Prince contemn he contemneth them against his own soul and is thereupon by the power of the Church disfranchised out of the Church and to be delivered over to Satan as well as any other offender HHHHH Johns Inqui. p. 70. We hold it Antichristian to entertain or admit any appeal from one Church to another the highest ordained by the Lord for all sinners is that Church whereof the sinner is a member And therefore in urging our Church to submit to another Church they sought to draw it to Antichristian bondage IIIII Bar. Dis p. 84. I am perswaded that the Magistrate ought not to make permanent Laws of that the Lord hath left in our Liberty Ibid. p. 255. We approve all the Laws of God to be most holy and inviolable and all-sufficient both for Church and Common-wealth and the perfit instruction of every Member and Officer of the same in their several duties so that nothing is now left to any mortal man of what high dignitie and calling so ever but to execute the Will of God according to his Word KKKKK Bar. Disc p. 108. God will have his Laws and Statutes kept and not altered according to the State and Policy of times for these Laws were made not for the Jews estate as Master Calvin teaches but for all mankinde especially for all the Israel of God from which Laws it is not lawful in judgement to decline to the right hand or to the left By the neglect of these Laws the whole world overflows with sin Ibid. p. 212. In the Common-wealth they have abrogated all Gods Judicial Laws and cut them off at one blow as made for the Common-wealth of the Jews onely as if God had no regard of the conversation of other Christians or had left the Gentiles in greater liberty to make Laws and Customes to themselves LLLLL. Ibid. Hereby it cometh to passe that so many ungodly Laws are decreed and the whole course of Justice perverted that so many capital mischiefs as God punisheth by death such as blaspheme the Name of the Lord open Idolatry Disobedience to Parents are not by Law punished at all Incest and Adultery are either past over or punished by some light or triffling punishment Ibid. p. 155. The High-Commission punishes the most execrable Idolatries but with prisons or forfeitures making it a pecuniary matter contrary to Gods Word MMMMM 1. Vide HHHH MMMMM 2. Bar. Dis p. 211. Theft if above thirteen pence is punished by death NNNNN Bar. Dis p. 55. The Vniversity of Oxford and Cambridge have the same Popish and Idolatrous beginning with the Colledges of Monks Fryers and Nuns and these Vermin had and still do retain the same insufferable and incurable abuses therefore Queen Elizabeth ought by good right to abolish them as her Progenitors did the Abbeys OOOOO Ibid. p. 177. They repair to the Vniversities to be instructed in Heathen and vain Arts The Churches of Christ have not such Heathenish and Idolatrous customes they have no such prophane Arts vain Education and Literature Ibid. p. 56. We finde them all generally the Seed of Vnbeleevers nourished in all manner of Prophanenesse Heathenism vain and ungodly Sciences their Education from their cradle is ungodly in the common Schools where they must learn their Greek and Latin from lascivious Poets or Heathenish Philosophers With this Liquor are their Pitchers at first seasoned there are they trained up in Logick Rhetorick and Philosophy which Learning they draw from Aristotle Cicero and such like there they learn to speak by Art Syllogisms and Tropes Idem Refut p. 89. This I dare affirm that from the Book of God they never derived these their Colledges Schools Halls Orders and Degrees that I may not say Arts Authors Exercise use of Learning Disputations Commencements They fight with their School-Learning vain Arts Philosophy Rhetorick Logick against the Truth and Servants of God PPPPP Vide supra N O. QQQQQ Vide RRRRR 2. RRRRR 1. Bar. Dis p. 179. In the Church of Christ the name and offices of Chancelor Vice-Chancelor Dean of Faculty Masters of Colledges Fellows Beadels Bursours and all their several Statutes and Customes are strange as also their manner of Degrees Disputing for their Degrees and Order of Teaching Neither have any such Vniversities Colledges Society of Schollers any ground of the Word of God I see not why they should have any more toleration then their elder Brethren the Monks who every way had as great colour of Holinesse and shew of Vtility to the Church as they They have all one and the same Hellish Original they had and these still retain the same blasphemous incurable abuses which can no ways be reformed but by their utter dissolution RRRRR 2. Bar. Dis p. 177. The English of Christian Religion and Profession of the Gospel I can well away with but this English Romish abstract of Divinity I am assured came forth of this same Forge that the Title of the supreme Head of the Church and cannot by all the glosses they can devise be made other then most high blasphemy against the person of Christ who is the onely Vniversal Doctor of all his Disciples Ibid. p. 56. If they continue still and give their minde to the study of Divinity as they call it which is as much as to say The reading of mens writings with these Feathers they flee with these eyes they see which Books being taken from them they are as mute as fish as blinde as moles Ibid. Their Divinity is traditional wholly derived from other mens Books and Writings both for the understanding dividing and interpretation of all Scripture as also for all Questions Doctrines and Doubts that arise and not springing from the Fountain of Gods Spirit in themselves according to the measure of Knowledge Faith and Grace given unto them SSSSS Bar. Disc p. 146. It were much better for the whole Church that for Prophecy and Doctrine Preachers would lay aside all Authors and be take themselves wholly to the Book of God So should that Book be more soundly understood so should they see with their own eyes and not other mens TTTTT Bar. Disc p. 56. These Questions as also the whole Scripture must in these their Schools and Disputations be insufferably corrupted wrested blasphemed according to the lusts of these Philosophical and Heathen Disputers which here must handle divide discusse according to their vain affected Arts of Logick and Rhetorick All these prizes must be played in Latin that the Learning may the more and the Folly the lesse be perceived least even the common people should hisse them off the Stage if