Linguistic DNA - Concept Modelling Demonstrator

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
book_n	form_n	prayer_n	use_v	4,815	5	5.9954	4	true

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A18078	A replye to an ansvvere made of M. Doctor VVhitgifte Against the admonition to the Parliament. By T.C.	Cartwright, Thomas, 1535-1603.	1573 (1573)	STC 4712; ESTC S120563	333,686	231

let him as though there were some variance betwene the people and the minister or as though he were afraide of some infection of plage And in dede it renueth the memory of the Leuitical priesthode whych did withdrawe himselfe from the people into the place called the holyest place where he talked wyth God and offered for the sinnes of the people Likewise for Mariage he cometh backe againe into the body of the church and for baptisme vnto the church dore what comelines what decency what edifying is thys Decencie I say in running and trudging from place to place edifying in standing in that place and after that sort where he can worst be harde and vnderstanded S. Luke sheweth that in the primitiue church both the prayers and preachings and the whole exercise of religion was done otherwyse For he sheweth howe S. Peter sitting amongste the rest to the ende he myght be the better heard rose not that only but that he stode in the midst of the people that his voyce might as much as might be come indifferently to all their eares and so standing both prayed and preached Now if it be said for the chapters Letany there is commaundement geuen that they shuld be red in the body of the church in deede it is true and therof is easely perceiued this disorder whych is in saying the rest of the prayers partly in the hither end and partly in the further end of the chauncell For seeing that those are red in the body of the church that the people may both heare and vnderstand what is red what shuld be the cause why the rest should be red farther of vnles it be that either those things are not to be heard of them or at the least not so necessary for them to be heard as the other whych are recited in the body or midst of the church And if it be further sayd that the boke leaueth that to the discretion of the ordinarye and that he may reforme it if there be any thing amis then it is easely answered again that besides that it is against reason that the commoditye and edifying of the church should depende vpon the pleasure of one man so that vpon hys eyther good or euill aduise and discretion it should be well or euell wyth the church Besides this I say we see by experience of the disorders whych are in many churches and dioceses in thys behalfe how that if it were lawfull to commit such authority vnto one man yet that it is not safe so to doe considering that they haue so euill quitten them selues in their charges and that in a matter the inconuenience wherof being so easely sene and so easely reformed there is notwythstanding so greate and so generall an abuse And the end of the order in the boke is to be obserued which is to kepe the praiers in the accustomed place of the church chappell or chauncell whych how maketh it to edification And thus for the generall faultes committed either in the whole Liturgy or in the most part of it both that I may haue no nede to repete the same in the particulares and that I be not compelled alwayes to enter a new disputation so ofte as M. Doctor sayeth very vnskilfully and vnlike a deuine whence so euer thys or that come so it be not euill it may be well established in the church of Christ Nowe I come to the forme of prayer whych is prescribed wherin the authors of the admonition declare that their meaning is not to disalow of prescript seruice of prayer but of thys forme that we haue For they expound themselues in the additions vnto the first part of the admonition It is not to any purpose that M. Doctor setteth himselfe to proue that there may be a prescript order of prayer by Iustine Martyrs testimony which notwithstanding hath not one word of prescript forme of prayers only he sayth there were prayers He sayth in dede the auncient fathers say that there hathe bene alwayes such kinde of prayers in the churches although they do say so yet all men may vnderstand easely that M. doctor speaketh thys rather by coniecture or that he hath heard other meÌ„ say so for so much as that Doctor whych he hathe chosen out to speake for all the rest hath no such thing as he fathereth on him He sayeth that after they haue baptised they pray for them selues for hym that is baptised and for all men that they may be mete to learne the truth and to expres it in their honest conuersation and that they be found to kepe the commaundements that they may attaine to eternal life but is this to say the there was a prescript forme of prayer when he sheweth nothing els but the chefe poynts vpon the whych they conceiued their prayers If you had alleaged thys to proue what were the matters or principall poyntes that the primitiue church vsed to pray for you had alleaged thys to purpose but to alleage it for a profe of a prescript forme of prayer when there is not there meÌ„tioned so much as the essentiall forme of prayer whych is the asking of our petitions in the name and through the intercession of our sauior Christ without the whych there is not nor cannot be any prayer argueth that either you litle know what the forme of prayer is or that you thought as you charge the authors of the admonition so often that this geare of yours should neuer haue come to the examination But for as muche as we agree of a prescript forme of prayer to be vsed in the church let that go thys that I haue sayd is to shew that when M. Doctor hapneth of a good cause whych is very seldome in this boke yet then he marreth it in the handling After he affirmeth that there can be nothing shewed in the whole boke whych is not agreeable vnto the word of God. I am very lothe to enter into this field albeit M. Doctor dothe thus prouoke me bothe because the Papistes will lightly take occasion of euill speaking when they vnderstand that we do not agree amongst our selues in euery poynte as for that some fewe professors of the gospell being priuate men boldened vpon such treatises take such wayes sometimes and breake forth into such speaches as are not meete nor conuenient Notwythstanding my duetie of defending the truthe and loue whych I haue first towardes God and then towards my countrey constraineth me being thus prouoked to speake a fewe woordes more particularly of the fourme of prayer that when the blemishes thereof doe appeare it may please the Queenes maiestie and her honourable Councell wyth those of the Parliamente whome the Lorde hathe vsed as singulare instrumentes to deliuer thys realme from the hotte furnaice and iron yoke of the popishe Egipte to procure also that the corruptions whych we haue broughte from them as those wysh whych we being so deepely dide and stained haue not so easely shaken

as oure lyfe is a continuall meditation of death it is not salfe to vse thys custome for that it tyeth our cogitation to so short a tyme as the tyme of buryall is which ought to be extended to the whole course of our lyfe But I answere that it may be well done wythout any such funerall sermons when the minister taketh occasion of the death of any whych is lately departed to speake of the vanity of the life of man Whether M. doctor lyketh the reformation or no so it is in the church where M. Caluin was pastor hath ben for these many yeres And although the Englishe church in Geneua had that in the boke of common prayer yet as I haue heard of those whych were there present it was not so vsed And if it had bene yet therby it is not proued that M. Caluin allowed of it For wyth thyngs wherin ther was no great and manifest disorder M. Caluin dyd beare that whych he lyked not of And there being no papists in all the city and al being wel instructed there was no such danger in a funerall sermon there as is here amongst vs where there is many papists and mo ignorant I will say nothyng of the great abuse of those whych hauing otherwyse to lyue on of the church take nobles for euery such sermon and sometime a mourning gowne whych causeth the papistes to open their mouthes wide and to say that the marchandise of sermons is much dearer then of the masse for that they might haue for a grote or six pence and the sermon they cannot haue vnder a rouÌ„der sum That must be remembred whych I had almost forgotten howe vntruely and slaunderously M. doctor sayth that the authors of the admonition do compare the sermon wyth a trentall or a masse For wheÌ„ I say in stead of the masse we haue the holy Communion doe I compare or lyken the communion to the masse and yet this is M. doctors charitable collection which gathereth thyngs whych no man letteth fall Touching the place of buryall I haue spoken before And although it be not to be mislyked that there should be a coÌ„mon place to bury in yet the places whych M. doctor poynteth vs vnto proue the cleane contrary For by the story of Abrahams place of buryall it appeareth that the manner was that euery one was buryed in hys owne seuerall grouÌ„d as may appeare also by that that the euangelist sayth that there was a field bought to bury the strangers in whych had no place of their owne whych was also vsed sometimes in the churches vnder the gospell as appeareth by the story of Theodoret whych I haue before recited in the later end of a funeral oratien which Gregory Nazianzene made of the death of hys brother Cesarius And so by this reason M. doctor wold haue euery one buryed in hys owne possession To the next section I haue answeared before where I haue entreated of churchyng women and of prayer it foloweth to speake vnto that in the. 205. and. 206. pa. TO pas by the prophane prouerbe here vsed which matcheth mad men women children togither most vnsemely for a D. of diuinity especially handling diuine matters for the singing of psalmes by course and side after side although it be very auncient yet it is not commeÌ„dable and so much the more to be suspected for that the deuil hath gone about to get it so great authority partly by deriuing it from Ignatius time and partly in making the world beleue that thys came from heauen and that the angels were heard to sing after thys sorte whych as it is a mere fable so is it confuted by hystoriographers whereof some ascribe the begynning of thys to Damasus some other vnto Flauianus Diodorus FroÌ„ wheÌ„ce so euer it came it can not be good considering that when it is grauÌ„ted y all the people may praise God as it is in singing of psalmes there this ought not to be restrained vnto a few wher it is lawful both with hart and voyce to sing the whole psalme there it is not mete that they should sing but the one halfe wyth their heart and voice and the other with their heart only For where they may both wyth heart and voice sing there the heart is not enough Therfore besides the incommodity whych commeth thys way in that being tossed after thys sort men can not vnderstande what is song these other two inconueniences come of thys forme of singing and therfore is banyshed in all reformed churches Vnto two very good reasons whych the admonition vseth to shewe the inconnenience of making curtesy and staÌ„ding at the name of Iesus and at the gospell rather then at other names of God and the rest of the scripture wherof the one is that it is against decencye and good order whych is broken by scraping of the feete and the other y it may brede a dangerous opinion of the inequality either of the sonne of God with the other persons or of the gospels with other scriptures M. doctor sayth y it is an indifferent thyng and neyther taketh away their reasons nor setteth down any of hys own thys is a sleÌ„der defence And it is no malicious dealing to note those faults whych are so generall so open yet notwithstanding vncorrected or vnreformed by those by whom M. d. wold make vs beleue that the church is best gouerned But I pray you tel me why do you coÌ„demn the seruing of two cures the alow the hauing of two benefices If it be no fault to haue two benefices how is it one to haue two cures for the curate is better able to read hys seruice in .ij. places theÌ„ the pastor to discharge his office in .ij. churches As for the speche of the cathedral churches either it is nothing or els it is fals For if he say y ther is either in al those cathedral churches one or in euery of those 12. churches one which is able to coÌ„fute papists c. what great thing saith he which sayeth no more of all these churches then is to be found in one poore house of the vniuersity whose rents are skarce three hundred pound by yeare yea what hath he sayd of them whych was not to be founde in them euen in Queenes Maryes tyme when there was yet some one almoste in euerye Churche whych for feare dissemblyng was able notwythstanding to confute the Papistes Anabaptistes Puritanes And if he meane that in those .xij. houses the worst of the Prebendaries are hable to defend the truth agaynst all Papists c. all men do know the vntruthe of it so that althoughe thys sentence be very doubtfully put forthe yet how so euer it be taken it is as M. Doctor hath ryghtly termed it a mere brag And yet I doubt not and am well assured that there be diuers godly learned men whych haue lyuings in those places but for all that they cease not therefore

was neuer hereticke so abhominable but that he had some truth to cloke hys falshode should hys vntruths and blasphemies driue vs from the possession of that which he holdeth truely no not the Deuill hym selfe saying that * God had geuen his angels charge ouer his can thereby wring this sentence from vs why we should not both beleue it and speake it being a necessary truth to beleue and speake You may as wel say we are Anabaptists because we say there is but one God as they did one Christ as they did c. And heere I will geue the reader a tast of your Logike that you make so much of in your boke The Anabaptists say that the churches ought to chuse their minister and not the magistrate And you say so Therfore you are Anabaptists or in the way to Anabaptisme The Anabaptists complained that the Christians vsed not their authoritie in excommunication And so do you complaine Therfore you are Anabaptists or in the way to them I will not lay to your charge that you haue not learned Aristotles Priorums which sayth it is asystaton as often as the meane in any syllogisme is coÌ„sequent to both the extremes But haue you not learned that whych Seton or any other halfepenny Logik telleth you that you can not conclude affirmatiuely in the second figure and of thys sort are euery one of your surmises contained in thys Treatise whych you entitle an exhortation c. And if I liked to make a long boke of little matter as you do I would thus gather your argumeÌ„ts out of euery brasich whych you ascribe as common vnto vs wyth the Anabaptists as you make adoe vpon euery place whych is quoted by the admonition to the Parliament But answer I pray you in good faith are you of that iudgement that the ciuill magistrate should ordaine ministers Or that there should be no excommunication whych we know was in the primitiue and is vsed in certaine the Heluetian churches If you be your controuersy is not so much wyth vs as wyth the byshops whych both call ministers and excommunicate If you be not why is that Anabaptisticall in vs whych is christian and catholike in you and why do you go about to bring vs in hatred for those things whych you do no more alow then these whom you thus endeuor to discredite We do not say that there is no lawfull or no ordinary calling in England for we do not deny but that he maye be lawfully called whych is not ordinarily as M. Luther Melancthon Zuinglius Oecolampadius c. and there be places in England where the ministers are called by their parishes in such sorte as the examples of the scripture do shew to haue bene done before the eldershyp and gouernment of the church be established I know not any that saith that the gospel is not truely preached in Englande and by those also that are not of the same iudgement that the Admonition to the Parliament is of But if it be sayd that it is not generally of euery one of them and in all poynts or not so ofteÌ„ or not there where their duety bindeth them and they are called vnto or not so sincerely or wythout mixture as it oughte to be then there is nothing sayde but that which we feare may be too easely proued If it be sayde of some that in certaine there are found some of those things that were repreheÌ„ded in the Phariseis what is that to proue that they be Anabaptistes y speake it Your selfe in one place of your booke call the authors of the Admonition and their fauourers Phariseis who do all thyngs to be seene of men and therefore they sighe and holde downe their heades c. and thys you speake against them that preache the gospell Therefore by your reason you geue sentence of Anabaptisme against your selfe You promised you would not wryte one worde wherof you had not your author for it First you haue peruerted the meaning of the Anabaptists in that wherein they accused the godly ministers that they were not according to that whych is wrytten in the third of the first Epistle to Timothe and all because you would multiply the noÌ„bre of your likelyhodes For they charged the ministers by that place of dissolutenes and losenes of lyfe and corruption of manners and we alledge it to proue that they should be able to teache and instruct against the dumbe ministery that is abrode But that which followeth vttereth not only great vntruth and falsification of the author but sheweth a minde desirous to slaunder and sory as it seemeth that those whych you so greeuously discredite are no liker the Anabaptists then they be I will sette downe the wordes as they are wrytten in the. 102. leafe that it may appeare howe faithfully you haue dealt Libere enim dicunt concionatores qui stipendium accipiunt non esse veros Dei ministros neque posse docere veritatem sed esse ventris ministros qui otiose accipiant ingentia stipendia ex illis rebus que simulachris immolate fuerunt ex diuitiis splendide luxuriose viuant cum tamen Christus dixit gratis accepistis gratis date prohibuit duas tunicas peram pecuniam habere Preterea Paulum aiunt manibus suis laborasse mandasse reliquis vt idem faciant itaque concludunt nulla debere stipendia habere sui officii sed laborare gratis ministrare quiahoc non faciunt non posse ipsos veritatem docere They say freely speaking of the Anabaptists that the preachers whych take stipends can not be the true ministers of God nor teache the truthe but are ministers of the belly whych to liue idlely take great stipendes of those things whych were offered to images and doe of their riches liue gorgeously and riotously when notwithstanding Christe sayde ye haue receiued freely geue freely and for bad them to haue two coates or a scrip or money Besides that they say that Paule laboured with hys owne handes and gaue commaundement to the rest of the ministers that they should do so and therefore they conclude that they should haue no stipende for their office but laboure and minister for nought and because they doe not so they can not teache the truthe Nowe let all men iudge whether it be one thing to say that they ought not to haue stipends that labor not or to say as the Anabaptists sayd that it was not lawfull to haue any stipende or to say they coulde not teach truely because they had great liuings or because they had any liuings at all Although I neuer red nor heard any of those that you meane saye that those whych had great stipends and liuings could not preach truely It may be that diuers haue sayd that it were meete the ministers should be content wyth competent stipends and that the ouerplus of that myght go to the supply of the wants of other ministers liuings and to the maintenance

him that inueigheth against any pastor without good cause beare the punishment as for inueighing against heaping of liuing vpon liuing and ioyning steeple to steeple and non residence and suche ambition and tiranny as beareth the sway in diuers Ecclesiasticall persons if the price of the pacification be the offending of the Lorde it is better you be displeased then God be offended To the. 16. VVe stay our selues wythin the bonds of the word of God we profes our selues to be of the nombre of those whych should * grow in knowledge as we do in age and whych labor that the image of God may be daily renewed in vs not only in holynes of life but also in * knowledge of the truthe of God and yet I know no question moued which hath not ben many yeares before in other churches reformed holden as truthe and therefore practised and in our churche also haue bene some yeares debated To the. 17. If we defende no falshoode or inconuenient thing we can not be counted stubborne or wilfull whereof we offer to be tried by the indifferent reader For waiwardnes and inhumanitie we thincke it a fault as we esteme godly societie and affabilitie to be commendable and what is our behauior herein we likewise referre to their iudgementes wyth whome we are conuersant and haue to doe wyth being misseiudged and vntruly condemned of you we iudge nor condemne no man their vices we condemne so farre forth as the listes of our vocation doe permit vs. To the. 18. We allowe of common weales as without which the church can not long continue we speake not against ciuill gouernment nor yet against ecclesiastical further then the same is an enemy to the gouernment that God hath instituted To the. 19. If we geue honor and reuerence to none let vs not only haue none again but let vs be had as those that are vnworthy to liue amongst men I feare there be of those whych are your fauourers Ecclesiasticall persons that if they shuld meete wyth my Lord Mayor of London would straine curtesye whether he or they should put of the cap first We geue the titles of Maiestie to the Queene our soueraigne of grace to Duke and Duches of honor to those whych are in honoure and so to euery one according to their estate If we misse it is not because we are not willing but because we knowe not alwayes what pertaineth vnto them and then our faulte is pardonable For answearing churlishly it is answeared before in the seuenth Article To the. 20. VVith acknowledging of our manifold wants and ignorances we dout not also to take vpon vs with thanks geuing that knowledge which God hath geuen to euery of vs according to the measure of fayth we seke not to please oure selues but the Lord and our brethren yea all men in that whych is good VVe reuerence other mens gifts so as we thinke the contempt of them redoundeth to the giuer Therfore although the common infection be in vs yet we hope pride doth not * raigne in our mortall bodyes To the. 21. VVe hold that it is no ministers part to chuse his owne place where he will preach but to tary vntill he be chosen of others Likewyse that he insinuate not hym selfe but abide a lawfull calling and therfore thys can not agree to vs but to those rather whych content themselues wyth a rouing and wandering mynistery and defend the ministers owne presenting and offering him selfe or euer he be called To the. 22. and. 23. I answer as to the fifthe and touching the. 23. refer the reader to a further answer in that place where occasion is offered to speake of it againe To the. 24. So farre forth as we may for the infirmities wherwyth we are enclosed we endeuor to adorne the doctrine of the gospell whych we profes we seeke not the admiration of men if God do geue that we haue honest report we thyncke we ought to maintaine that to the glory of God and aduancement of the gospel what is our straightnes of life any other then is required in all christians we bryng in I am sure no Monachisme or Anchorisme we eate and drynke as other men we liue as other men we are apparelled as other men we lye as other men we vse those honest recreations that other men doe and we thincke there is no good thing or commodity of life in the world but that in sobriety we may be partakers of so farre as our degree and calling will suffer vs as God maketh vs able to haue it For the hipocrisy that you so often charge vs wyth the day shall try it If any man ioyne wych vs with minde to contende it is against our will notwithstanding we knowe none and what great stirrers and contenders they be whych fauor thys cause let all men iudge To the two next sections Do you thincke to mocke the worlde so that when you haue so vniustly so hainously accused you may wipe your mouth and say as you did before that you will not accuse any and as now that you will leaue the application Is not this to accuse to say that the authors of the Admonition doe almost plainly professe Anabaptisme is not thys to apply to say that they agree wyth the Anabaptists in all the fornamed practises and qualities You would faine strike vs but you would do it in the night when no man should see you and yet if you haue to do against Anabaptists you neede not feare to proclaime your warre against them You haue a glorious cause you shall haue a certaine victorye I dare promisse you that you shall haue all the estates and orders of this realme to clappe their handes and sing your epinicia and triumphant songs But that you would conuey your sting so priuely and hissingly as the Adder doth it carieth with it a suspition of an euill conscience and of a worse cause then you make the world beleeue you haue From moreouer c. vnto To conclude Now you cary vs from the Anabaptists in Europe vnto the Donatists in Affrike you wil paint vs with their coloures but you want the oyle of truth or likelyhode of truth to cause your colours to cleaue to endure The Lord be praised that your breath although it be very ranke yet it is not so strong that it is able either to turn vs or chaunge vs into what formes it pleaseth you I shal desire the reader to loke Theod. lib. 4. De fabulis haereticorum and Augustine ad quod vult Deum and in his first and second bokes against Petilians letters where he shall finde of these heretikes that by comparing theÌ„ wyth these to whom M. Doctor likeneth theÌ„ the smoke of this accusation might the better appeare for these slanders are not worth the answering To this diuision from the churches and to your supposed conuenticles I haue answeared They taught that there were no true churches but in Affrica

places in the scripture whereof I will recite two or three In the fifthe Chapter of Iosua it is sayde that Iosua made him sharpe kniues for the circumcising of the children of Israell and a little after that Iosua circumcised them Shall we now vppon these wordes conclude that Iosua dyd make the kniues himselfe or was a cutler or being made to hys hande dyd whet them and sharpen them or shall we say that he dyd circumcise the children of Israell in his owne person and hym selfe alone when as that was done by many and by the Leuites to whome that offyce appertayned no but the scripture declareth that Iosua procured sharpe kniues to be made and exhorted and commaunded the people to be circumcised In Exodus it is sayde that Moses dyd appoynt vnto the people Princes Captayne 's ouer thousandes and hundrethes c. And if any conclude thereuppon that hee dyd it him selfe alone hee is by and by confuted by that whiche is wrytten in Deuteronomie where it appeareth that the people dyd chuse them and presented them to Moises What is it then that is sayde in Exodus that Moises appoynted them but that Moyses assembled the people and exhorted them to appoynt rulers and tolde them what manner of men they should be and in a worde sate as it were moderatour in that election To come to the newe Testament In the Actes it is sayde that Paule and Timothe delyuered vnto the churches the orders and decrees of the Apostles and elders and yet it appeareth in another place that the Church had also to doe and gaue their consent vnto the making of those decrees so that the former place meaneth that the Apostles and Elders dyd goe before and were the cheefe and directors of that action The same manner of speach is vsed of the Romane stories wherein it is sayd that the Consull dyd make Magistrates for because that he gathered the assembly and voyces whereby they were made and so S. Luke sayth heere that Paul and Barnabas ordayned because they being the moderators of the Election caused it to be made assembled the churches tolde them of the necessitie of hauing good pastors and gouernors gathered the voices tooke heede that nothing should be done lightly nothing tumultuously or out of order And so to conclude it is an euill reason to say as M. Doctor doth that because S. Luke hath that Paule and Barnabas ordayned therefore the people were excluded And I maruell with what conscience he coulde answere so in thys place especially where it is forthwith added that they ordayned them by the suffrages and voices of the church But you say that the Greeke worde cheirotonein is by the common opinion of almost all Ecclesiasticall writers vsed in the scripture for the solemne maner of ordaining of ministers by the imposition of hands which is the second exception you take to this reason Wherin but that I haue promised to holde my selfe to the matter and that these bolde asseuerances in matters most vntrue are so common that if I should euery fote pursue them I should weary my selfe and all others I coulde not keepe my selfe from running out to maruell at such high speaches voide of truthe First where you say that some translation hath that they ordained ministers wythout making mention of election what haue you gained therby when I can shew mo that translate it otherwise and say it is that they ordained by election or voices or suffrages I had not the commoditye of bookes wherby I coulde see the iudgement of all Ecclesiasticall wryters But of those whych I had I finde that there was but one only M. Gualter of that minde and yet he dothe not shut out the peoples consent in the election Master Caluin M. Beza M. Bullinger M. Musculus M. Brentius he that translated Chrysostome vppon that place Erasmus in his Paraphrases vpon that place are of the contrary iudgement of whose iudgement I would not haue spoken if you woulde not haue gone about thus to abuse youre reader wyth suche manifest vntruthes to ouerthrow the order which God hath established But let all authorities of men go and let vs examine the thing in it self If so be that the holy ghust had ment the solemne putting on of the handes vpon the heades of him that was created elder and minister had he not words enough to vtter this hys meaning would he haue for laying on of hands vsed a word that signifieth lifting vp of hands would he haue vsed a word signifying holding vp for laying downe for when the hands are layd of the head of an other they are layd downe and not holden vp There are words in the olde Testament and in the newe before S. Luke wrote and after he wrote to expres thys ceremony of laying on of hands and yet none haue euer expressed thys S. Paule speaketh thrise of it in his Epistles to Timothe and alwayes he vseth epithesis ton cheiron In the old Testament where thys ceremonie is vsed and spoken of the Septuaginta did neuer translate cheirotonein But as the wryters of the newe Testament epithesis cheiron And what should I stande in thys when as S. Luke him selfe bothe before and after speaking of that ceremony of laying on of hands doth neuer vse this word cheirotonein but the same word whych s Paule vseth and the Septuaginta and although the holy ghost speake properly and wel by whomsoeuer he speaketh yet it could haue ben worst of all sayd by S. Luke of all the Canonicall wryters that he should speake thus vnproperly who of them all wryteth moste purely and elegantly according to the phrase of the moste eloquent Grecians and therfore he borowed this speache of the auncient Greeke wryters whych did vse to expres their elections by thys worde because they were made and voyces geuen by thys Ceremonie of lifting vp of handes But what if S. Luke haue vsed thys worde before and in thys booke in the signification of chusing by voyce dare you then say that he vseth it heere for putting on of hands In the Actes S. Peter sayeth that Christ after hys resurrection appeared not vnto the whole people but vnto those whom he had before chosen by his voyce to be hys witnesses he vseth thys word procecheirotonemenous Nowe if you will say heere that it is to be turned those of whome he layd his handes I will aske you where you read that euer he layd his handes of their heads I will shewe you where he did by hys heauenly voyce appoynt theÌ„ And I thinke you are not able to shew in any Greeke author auncient which men do take to be autenticall to teache the propertie or eloquence of the Greeke tongue I meane which were before S. Luke his time where the worde cheirotonein is taken for the laying on of hands of the head of any Thys I confesse that the Greeke Ecclesiasticall wryters haue sometimes vsed it so but you

and election are dyuers members of one whole which is the placing of the pastor in hys church and one member can not be verified of an other as you can not say your foote is your hand I will not deny but that sometimes these wordes maye bee founde confounded in Ecclesiasticall wryters but I will shewe you also that they are distinguished and that the election pertayneth to the people and ordayning vnto the Byshop Vpon the sixte of the Actes the glose hath that that which was done there of the xij Apostles in willing the brethren to loke out fitte men was done to geue vs example muste be obserued in those that are ordayned For sayth the glose the people must chuse and the Byshoppe must ordayne And that S. Ierome must be so vnderstanded it appeareth not only that it hath beene so expounded but also it may be casely proued for that S. Ieromes sentence and iudgement appeareth in other places that he woulde haue nothing heere done with out the people as in his Epistle ad Rusticum monachum he willeth that the people shoulde haue power and authoritie to chuse their clarkes and their ministers and in hys Epistle to Neopotian of the lyfe of the clarkes he hath thys distinction manifestly They runne sayth he vnto the Bishoppes suffragans certen times of the yeare and bringing some summe of money they are annoynted and ordayned being chosen of none and afterwarde the Bishoppe without any lawfull election is chosen in hugger mugger of the Canons or Prebendaries only without the knowledge of the people And so you see that although y S. Ierome sayeth that the Byshop had the ordayning of the ministers yet he had not the election for the ordayning was nothing else but an approuing of the election by putting on of handes and consequently hauing made your vaunt that all the learned fathers were of thys iudgement that the Bishop should elect the minister you shew not so much as one Now will I shewe you the cleane contrary of that you saye not that I gladlye trauaile thys wayes for if you had not constrayned me you shoulde not haue hearde one voyce thys way And woulde to God that you woulde be content especially when you meete with those that will be tryed by the scriptures to seeke no farther strengthe then they geue you But I am lothe you shoulde oppresse the truthe and make all men afrayde of it by making them beleeue that it is so desolate and forsaken of her frendes as you pretende You confesse S. Cyprian is agaynste you herein and he was a learned father and a Martyr also whych dyd not only vse thys forme of election but also taught it to be necessary and commaunded and therefore me thincketh you shoulde not haue sayde all the learned fathers without exception You see also S. Ierome is of an other iudgement S. Augustine also when hee speaketh how hee appoynted Eradius to succeede hym sheweth howe it was the approued right and custome that the whole church shoulde eyther chuse or consent of their Bishoppe And * Ambrose sayeth that that is truely and certaynely a diuine election to the office of a byshop which is made of the whole church Eregorius Nazianzene in the Oration which he had at the death of hys father hath diuers things which proue that the election of the minister pertayned to the Churche and confuteth those thinges which should seeme to hinder it These were learned fathers and yet thought not that the election of the pastor or byshop pertayned to one man alone but that the church had also hir interest therefore you see all the learned fathers are not of that mynde you say they are And that thys election continued in the churche vntill within a three hundred yeares at what time there was more then Egyptiacall and palpable darcknesse ouer the face of the whole earth it may appeare in a Treatise of Flaccus Illirâ—cus whiche he calleth an addition vnto hys booke that he entituleth the Catalogue of the witnesses of truthe of whome I confesse my selfe to haue bene muche holpen in thys matter of the choyse of the church touching the ministers especially in the Emperoures Edictes which are before cited For lacking opportunities diuers wayes I was contented somewhat to vse the collection to my commoditie for the more speedie furtheraunce and better proceeding in other matters which I will leaue of because they may be there red of those that be learned whome I will also referre to the sixe and seuen bookes of Eusebius wher both the formes of the electioÌ„s in those tymes are described wher besides that the customes of the peoples choise is set forth there are examples of the election of the people and cleargie which were confirmed by the christian Magistrate namely in the Byshop of Constantinople And these may suffice for the other that haue not that commoditie of bookes nor habilitie nor skill to reade them being in a straunge tongue to knowe that besides the institution of God in his worde thys manner of election dyd continue so long as there was any light of the knowledge of God in the churche of god I will adde only one place which if it be more bitter then the rest and cutte the quicke more neare you shall not bee angry with me but first with those that were the authors of it and then wyth him that wrote it Eusebius speaking of Origine which was admitted not of one Bishop but of many Byshoppes to teache sheweth how the Byshoppes were reprehended by the Byshoppe of Alexandria called Demetrius because they had admitted him without the election of the presbyterie of the churche which were the cheefe in the election in euery church and vnto the which the churches did committe the gouernment of them selues in euery seuerall towne and Citie sayth that it hath not beene hearde that laikous shoulde homilein paronton ton episcopon which is that the lay men should teach when the Byshoppes were present whereby it is euident that he counted hym a lay man which was only admitted by the Byshops although they were many not being first elected by the presbyterie of that church wherof he was the teacher Seing then that the scripture doth teache thys order that there shoulde be no minister thrust vppon the churche but by the consent thereof and reason perswadeth that wayes and the vse of the churche hath beene so from time to time both in peace and in time of persecution bothe vnder tyrantes and godly Princes it can not be without the highe displeasure of almightie God the great hurte and sore oppression of the churche that one man shoulde take thys vnto hym which pertayneth to so many or one minister which pertayneth to more then one especially where the aduise of learned ministers may concurre with the peoples election or consent Now if any man will rise vp and saye that this doctryne bringeth in disorder and by thys meanes children and boyes and

it is easely to be seene by * Salomon in his Ecclesiastes that to weare a white garment was greatly estemed in the East partes and was ordinarie to those that were in any estimation as the wearing of blacke with vs and therfore was no seuerall apparell for the ministers or for to execute their ministerie in The reasons that M. Peter Martyr vseth are the same before and how he hath also condemned them it shall appeare with M. Bucers iudgement of these thinges in the ende of the booke As for Eustathius his depriuation because he did not weare apparel meete for a minister it maketh not to this purpose one whit For I haue shewed that if any minister go like a ruffian or swashe buckler or in the brauerie of a courtier that it is meete he should be punished according to the quaintitie of the fault And that it is so to be vnderstaÌ„ded it appeareth manifestly by the councell of Gangris which did therfore confirme the same deposing because he ware a stranger apparell the habite of a Philosopher caused all his fellowes to do so Therfore I maruell what you meane to alledge this place It is also alledged of * Nicephorus in neither of the places there is any Eustathius the sonne of Eustathius but of Eulabius or as Nicephorus readeth Eulalius And therfore your conclusion is both vntrue vncertaine that since the Apostles times there hath bene a distinct seuerall apparell of the ministers from the rest The matter lyeth not in that whether these things were first muented by papistes or being deuised of others were after taken by the papists but the matter standeth in this that they haue bene vsed of the papists as notes markes and sacraments of their abhominations As for Augustin hys place it is to be vnderstanded of such things as haue a necessary vse and therefore may not be taken away from vs by the superstition of men For so we might also be depriued of the sunne which is as it were the life of the world because the sinme hath bene worshipped But that S. Augustin did not like of this kinde of retayning ceremonies it may * appeare Do you aske sayth he how the Paganes may be wonne how they may be brought to saluation forsake their solemnities let goe their toyes and then if they gree not vnto our truth let them be ashamed of their fewnesse whereby he sheweth that the nearest way to gaine the papistes is to forsake their Ceremonies And yet I would be loth to say eyther with you or with Augustin that it is not lawfull for a man to make of a popishe surplice a shirt for him selfe or to take the gold of a cope which he hath bought conuert it to his priuate vse And herein we do nothing disagree with S. Augustin which graunt that surplices and copes and rippets and cappes may be applyed to a good vse eyther common or priuate as they wil best serue but wee deny that that vse is in distinguishing eyther the ministers from other men or the ministers executing their ecclesiasticall function from themselues when they doe not exercise that office To all these things that M. Martyr reckeneth vp of reuenues and wages verses wine bread oyle water whych being consecrated vnto Idols are well vsed Tertullian answeareth in the same boke whereout a numbre of these are taken when he sayth that we ought to admit a participation of those things whych bring either a necessity or profite in the vse of them but we deny that these things thus vsed are either necessary or profitable And therfore in stead of temples tithes wine c. if you woulde haue matched the surplice well you shoulde haue sayd sensors tapers holy bread holy water and such like It is true that M. Bucer sayeth that it is not in the nature of any creature to be a note of Antichrist but yet followeth not therof that the creature that hathe bene accidentally through abuse applied to idolatry may be forthwith vsed as we shall thinke good For neither the idolles of the Gentiles nor the corruptions of those which offered had power to make the beefe or mutton that was offered no good and holesome meate for the sustenaunce of man neither cause that a Christian man coulde not eate them as beefe and mutton but yet either to eate it at the table of idolles before them or else priuately in hys owne house when there was anye weake by that thoughte it an abhominable thing was not lawfull and yet the meate neuertheles the good creature of God and whych might be receiued wyth thankes giuing so the abuse of the surplice and coape c. can not cause but that they may be vsed as clothe and silke And wheras he sayeth that they are chaunged and made of notes of Antichristianitie markes of Christianitie I say that they can not be chaunged so by any decree or commaundement for as much as notwithstanding that profession of chaunge the heartes of men vnto whych euery man must haue regarde vnto are not chaunged For not so soone as the magistrate will saye that these thyngs shall be from henceforthe vsed as things indifferent forthwyth men doe vse them so but those only vse them so whych haue knowledge both the ignorant and the weake take them stil otherwise The rest of those things whych M. Bucer and those whych M. Bullinger and Gualter bring are all of that sorte wherevnto answere is made Only this they adde that if the people do abuse and peruert these ceremonies they oughte to be better instructed whych is a counsell not so conuenient that the ministers and pastors whych haue so many necessary poynts to bestowe their time on and to informe the people of should be driuen to cutte of their time appoynted thereto to teache them not to abuse these things which if they vse neuer so well they can gaine nothing and to take heede that they hurte not them selues at those things whych in their best estate do no good especially when one sermon of the taking of them away ioyned wyth authoritie to execute it may do more good then a thousand sermons wythout authoritie Besides that it is absurde that ceremonies whych ought to be helpers to promote the doctrine shoulde become lets and hinderances whilest the minister is occupied in teaching to beware of the abuse of them and of superstition And it is as muche as if one should be set to watche a childe all day long least he hurt him selfe wyth the knife when as by taking away the knife quite from hym the daunger is auoided and the seruice of the man better employed And so it foloweth that althoughe the churche may appoynt ceremonies and rites yet it can not appoynte these that haue great incommoditye and no commoditie great offence and no edifying And althoughe they haue all these properties whych you recite yet if they be not to edifying if not to God hys glorye if

red more of him then you For I haue red ouer his boke of Martyrs and so I thinke did neuer you For if you had red so diligently in M. Foxe as you haue ben hasty to snatch at this place he would haue taught you the forgery of these Epistles whereout you fetch your authorities and would haue shewed you that the distinguishing of the orders of metropolitanes bishops and other degrees whych you say sometimes had their beginnings in the apostles times somtimes you can not tell wheÌ„ were not in Higinus time which was a. 180. yeres after Christ I perceiue you fear M. Foxe is an ennemy vnto your archbyshop and primate therfore it seemeth you went about to corrupt hym wyth hys praise and to seeke to drawe hym if it were possible vnto the archbyshop and if not yet at the least that he would be no ennemy if he would not nor could not be his frend You make me suspect that your praise is not harty but pretended because you do so often so bitterly speake against all those that will not receiue the cap and surplice and other ceremonies wherof M. Fox declareth his great misliking For answer vnto the place because I remeÌ„ber it not nor meane not to read ouer the whole boke to seeke it I say first as I said before that there may be some thing before or after which may geue the solution to this place especially seeing M. Foxe in another place prouing the Epistles of Stephanus to be counterfet he vseth thys reason because the fifthe Canon of the sayd Epistles solemnely entreateth of the difference betwene primates metropolitanes and archbyshops whych distinction sayth he of titles and degrees sauor more of ambition theÌ„ persecution Moreouer I say that M. Foxe wryting a story doth take greater paine and loketh more diligently to declare what is done and in what time and by whom then how iustly or vniustly how conueniently or inconueniently it is done Last of all if any thing be spoken there to the hinderance of the sincerity of the gospell I am well assured that M. Foxe whych hath trauailed so much and so profitably to that end will not haue hys authority or name therin to bring any preiudice Now wil I also wyne with you and leaue it to the iudgement of the indifferent reader how well out of the scriptures councels wryters old and new you haue proued either the lawfulnes at all of the names of archbishops patriarches archdeacons primates or of the lawfulnes of the office of them and of byshops whych be in our times And for as much as I haue purposed to answer in one place that which is scattered in diuers I will heere answere halfe a shete of paper whych is annexed of late vnto thys boke put forthe in the name and vnder the credite of the B. of Salisbury Wherin I wil say nothyng of those byting sharpe words which are giuen partly in the beginning when he calleth the propounders of the proposition whych concerneth archbyshops and archdeacons nouices partly in the end when he calleth them children and the doctrine of the gospell wantonnes c. If he had liued for hys learning and grauitye and otherwyse good desertes of the church in defending the cause therof agaynst the papistes we coulde haue easely borne it at hys handes nowe he is deade and layde vp in peace it were agaynste all humanitye to dygge or to breake vp hys graue only I wil leaue it to the consideration of the reader vpon those things whych are alledged to iudge whether it be any wantonnes or noueltye whych is confirmed by so graue testimonyes of the auncient worde of god Vnto the place of the. 4. of the Ephesians before alledged he answeareth cleane contrary to that whych M. Doctor sayth that we haue nowe neyther Apostles nor Euangelists nor Prophets wherevppon he wold conclude that that place is no perfect paterne of the ministery in the church In deede it is true we haue not neyther is it nedefull that wee should It was therfore sufficient that there were once and for a time so that the wante of those nowe is no cause whye the minysteries there recited be not sufficient for the accomplyshment and full fynishing of the church nor cause whye anye other minysteries should be added besydes those whych are there recyted Afterward he saith that neither byshop nor elder are reckned in that place The pastor is there reckened vp and I haue shewed that the pastor and byshop are all one and are but dyuers names to signifye one thyng And as for those elders whych doe only gouerne they are made mention of in other places the apostles purpose being to recken vp here only those minysteries whych are conuersant in the worde as I haue before alledged and therefore the byshop and elder whych wyth gouernment teache also are there contained After that he sayeth there is no catechista if there be a pastor or as some thynke Doctor there is one whych bothe can and ought to instruct the youth neyther doth it pertayne to any other in the churche and publykely to teache the youth in the rudiments of religion then vnto eyther the pastor or doctor how so euer in some times and places they haue made a seuerall office of it And where he sayth that there is neyther deacon nor reader mentioned for the deacon I haue answeared that s Paul speaketh there only of those functioÌ„s whych are occupyed both in teachyng and gouernyng the churches and therfore there was no place there to speake of a deacon and as for the reader it is no such office in the churche whych the minister may not doe And if eyther he haue not leysure or his strength and voyce wil not serue hym first to read some long time and afterwarde to preache it is an easye matter to appoynt some of the elders or deacons or some other graue man in the church to that purpose as it hathe bene practised in the churches in times past and is in the churches reformed in oure dayes without making any new order or office of the ministery Where he sayth that by thys reason we should haue no churches pulpits schooles nor vniuersities it is first easely answeared that S. Paule speaketh not in the. 4. to the Ephesians of all things necessary for the churche but only of all necessary ecclesiasticall functions whych do both teach gouerne in the church and then I haue already shewed that there were both churches and pulpits As for scholes and vniuersities it is sufficient commaundement of them in that it is commaunded that bothe the magistrates and pastors should be learned for he that commaundeth that they shoulde be learned commaundeth those things and those meanes wherby they may most conueniently come to that learning And we haue also examples of them commended vnto vs in the old Testament As in the boke of the Iudges when Debora commendeth the vniuersity men and those

constancy that all the rest of the day should be kept holy in such sorte as men should be debarred of their bodely labors and of exercising their daily vocations Nowe where as maister Doctor citeth Augustine and Ierome to proue that in the Churches in their times there were holy dayes kepte besydes the Lordes day he myght haue also cited Ignatius and Tertullian and Cyprian whych are of greater auncienty and would haue made more for the credit of hys cause seeing he measureth all hys truthe almoste throughe the whole booke by the croked measure and yarde of time For it is not to be denyed but thys keeping of holy dayes especially of the Easter and Pentecost are very auncient and that these holy dayes for the remembrance of Martyrs were vsed of long time But these abuses were no auncienter then other were groser also then thys was as I haue before declared and were easy further to be shewed if nede required And therefore I appeale from these examples to the scriptures and to the examples of the perfectest church that euer was whych was that in the apostles times And yet also I haue to say that the obseruation of those feastes first of all was much better then of later times For Socrates confessing that neyther our sauioure Christ nor the apostles dyd decree or institute any holy dayes or lay any yoke of bondage vppon the neckes of those whych came to the preaching addeth further that they did vse first to obserue the holy dayes by custom and that as euery man was disposed at home Whych thing if it had remained in that freedome that it was done by custome and not by commaundement at the will of euery one and not by constraint it had bene much better then it is nowe and had not drawne suche daungers vpon the posteritye as did after ensue and we haue the experience of As touching M. Bucers M. Bullingers Illiricus allowance of them if they meane such a celebration of them as that in those dayes the people may be assembled and those partes of the scriptures which concerne them whose remembrance is solemnised red and expounded and yet men not debarred after from their daily works it is so much the les matter if otherwise that good leaue they giue the churches to dissent from them in that poynt I do take it graunted vnto me being by the grace of God one of the churche Althoughe as touching M. Bullenger it is to be obserued since the time that he wrote that vppon the Romaines there are about .xxxv. yeares sythens whych time although he holde still that the feastes dedicated vnto the Lord as of the Natiuity Easter and Pentecost may be kept yet he denyeth flatly that it is lawfull to keepe holy the dayes of the apostles as it appeareth in the confession of the Tigurine church ioyned wyth others As for M. Caluine as the practise of hym and the church where he lyued was and is to admit no one holy day besides the Lords day so can it not be shewed out of any parte of hys workes as I thynke that he approued those holy dayes whych are nowe in question He sayeth in deede in hys Institution that he wil not condemne those churches whych vse them No more do we the church of Englande neyther in thys nor in other things whych are meere to be reformed For it is one thing to mislike another thyng to coÌ„demne and it is one thing to condemne some thing in the church and an other thing to condemn the church for it And as for the places cited out of the epistles to the Galathians and Collossians there is no mention of any holy dayes eyther to saintes or to any other And it appeareth also that he defendeth not other churches but the church of Geneua and answeareth not to those whych obiect against the keping of saintes dayes or any holy dayes as they are called besides the Lords day but against those whych would not haue the Lords day kept still as a day of rest from bodely labor as it may appeare both by hys place vpon the Collossians and especially in that whych is alleaged out of hys Institutions And that he meaneth nothing les then suche holy dayes as you take vpon you to defende it may appeare first in the place of the Colossians where he sayeth that the dayes of rest whych are vsed of them are vsed for pollicy sake Nowe it is well knowne that as it is pollicy and a way to preserue the estate of things and to keepe theÌ„ in a good continuance and succes that as well the beastes as the men whych labor sixe dayes should rest the seuenth so it tendeth to no pollicy nor wealth of the people or preseruation of good order that there should be so many dayes wherin men should cease from worke being a thyng whych breedeth idlenesse and consequently pouerty besides other disorders and vices whych alwayes goe in company wyth idlenes And in the place of hys Institutions he declareth hym selfe yet more plainly when he sayeth that those odde holy dayes then are wythout superstition when they be ordained only for the obseruing of discipline and order Whereby he geueth to vnderstand that he would haue them no further holy dayes then for the time whych is bestowed in the exercise of the discipline and order of the churche and that for the rest they shoulde be altogither as other dayes free to be laboured in And so it appeareth that the holy dayes ascribed to Saintes by the seruice booke is a iust cause why a man can not safely without exception subscribe vnto the seruice Nowe wheras maister Doctor sayeth it maketh no matter whether these things be taken out of the Portuis so they be good c. I haue proued first they are not good then if they were yet being not necessary abused horribly by the papistes other being as good and better then they ought not to remaine in the church And as for Ambrose saying all truthe of whome so euer it be sayde is of the holy ghoste it I were disposed to moue questions I coulde demaund of him whych careth not of whome he haue the truthe so he haue it what our sauioure Christe meant to refuse the testimony of Deuils when they gaue a cleare testimony that he was the sonne of God and the holy one and what S. Paule ment to be angry and to take it so greuously that the Pithonisse sayd he and his companion were the seruaunts of the high God whych preached vnto them the way of saluation Heere was truthe and yet reiected and I would knowe whether maister Doctor would say that these spake by the spirite of god Thus whilest wythout all iudgement he snatcheth heere a sentence and there another out of the Doctors and that of the worste as if a man should of purpose chuse oute the drosse and leaue the siluer wythin a while he wil make no great difference not

if kneeling be so void of all fault as M. Doctor wold make vs beleue howe came it to passe that in King Edwardes dayes there was a protestation added in the boke of prayer to cleare that gesture from adoration An other reason why kneeling should be taken away is for that sitting agreeth better wyth the action of the supper whervnto M. Doctor taketh exception bothe in thys place and where he speaketh againe of it that for so much as thys sacrament is a sacrament of thankes geuing and thankes geuing a prayer therfore kneeling to be most fit as that whych we vse ordinarily when we pray But he shuld haue remembred that that thanks geuing may wel come after we haue receyued the sacrament and that whilest we receyue the bread and wine of the sacrameÌ„t we are not then most fit to speake they being in our mouths and during the time we receyue them our minde is occupied in consydering the inestimable benefite whych the Lorde hathe bestowed vpon vs and to meditate of the frute whych we receiue thereby by the Analogie and comparison betwene the bodely nourishment and the spirituall that by these considerations our minds may be more enflamed and sette on fire and our mouthes may be filled wyth the praise of God after we haue receyued And further if thys be a good reason that therefore it is meete we shoulde kneele at the supper for as muche as we geue thanks then it foloweth that when so euer we haue supped or dined it is meete that we should kneele when as yet we do say grace sitting And by thys he accuseth our sauioure Christe and hys Apostles as those whych did not vse the whych was most fitte for in hys iudgement he sayeth kneeling is the fittest site or position of the body which can be and if our sauioure Christ had bene of that iudgement vndoubtedly he wold haue also kneeled and caused hys Apostles so to do In the. 181. page vnto the admonition saying that sitting is most fitte because it betokeneth rest and accomplishment of the ceremonies in our sauioure Christe M. doctor sayth it is a papisticall reason and triumpheth ouer the authors of the admonition because they allegory when as notwythstanding the surplice before crossing and rings c. afterwards are defended by nothing but wyth vain allegories whych haue nothing so good grouÌ„ds as thys hath But let it be that thys is not so sound a reason as in deede for my part I wil not defend it and the authors them selues haue corrected it yet M. doctor might haue dealt easlier with all then to callit a papisticall reason which is far from popery and the reason of two notable learned zealous men Iohannes Alasco and of M. Hooper in hys commentary vpon the Prophet Ionas For the rest whych he hath heere or in the. 180. and. 181. page it is either answered before as that the danger of adoration may be taken away or hath no matter worthy the answearing I only admonish the reader that sitting at the communion is not holdeÌ„ to be necessary but only that I thinke that kneling is very daÌ„gerous for the causes before aledged Vnto the .iij. next sections contained in the .100 and .101 page I haue spoken already when as I shewed the generall faultes of the seruice boke only that is to be noted that M. doctor stil priuely pincheth or euer he be aware at our sauior Christes action in the first of these sections when as he commendeth rather thys forme of speaking take thou then that whych our sauior Christ vsed in saying take yee And if it be a good argument to proue that therfore we must rather say take thou then take yee because the sacrament is an application of the benefites of Christ then for as much as preaching is the applying of the benefites of Christ it behoueth that the preacher should direct hys admonitions particularly one after an other vnto all those whych heare hys sermon whych is a thyng absurde And therefore besides that it is good to leaue the popish forme in those thyngs whych we may so conueniently do it is best to come as neare y maner of celebration of the supper whych our sauyor Christ vsed as may be To the next section contained in the. 102. page When as many receiue they know not what some other wythout any examination eyther of them selues or by others how they come wyth what faith in Christ wyth what loue towardes their brethren I see not against what rule of our sauioure Christe it is or what rashe iudgement to say that they come rather of custome then of conscience when neyther they speake generally of all nor singularly of any one particulare person To the next section contained in the. 102. and a peece of the. 103. page IF the place of the. 5. to the Corinths do forbid that we should haue any familiarity wyth notorious offenders it doth much more forbid that they should be receyued to the communion And therfore papists being such as which are notoriously knowne to hold hereticall opinions ought not to be admitted much les compelled to the supper For seeing that our sauioure Christe did institute hys supper amongst hys disciples and those only whych were as S. Paule speaketh wythin it is euident that the papistes being wythout and foreiners and straungers from the church of God ought not to be receiued if they woulde offer them selues and that minister that shall geue the supper of the Lord to hym whych is knowne to be a papist and whych hath neuer made any cleare renouncing of popery with which he hath ben defiled doth prophane the table of the Lord doth geue the meat that is prepared for the children to dogges and he bryngeth into the pasture whych is prouided for the sheepe swine and vncleane beasts contrary to the faith and trust that ought to be in a stewarde of the Lordes house as he is For albeit that I doubt not but many of those whych are now papists pertaine to the election of God whych God also in hys good time will call to the knowledge of hys truthe yet notwythstanding they ought to be vnto the minister and vnto the church touching the ministring of the sacramentes as straungers and as vncleane beastes And as for the papists howsoeuer they receiue it whether as their popish breaden God as some doe or as common and ordinary bread as other some do or as a thing they know not what as some other they do nothing els but eat and drinke their owne condemnation the waight wherof they shall one day assuredly feele vnles they do repeat them of such horrible prophaning of the Lords most holy mysteries And if thys be to gratify the papists to shewe that they ought not to be compelled to receiue the supper of the Lorde as long as they continue in their popery I am well content to shewe them thys pleasure so that bothe they and you forget not

what I haue before sayd that the magistrate ought to compell them to heare the worde of God and if they profite not nor wyth sufficient teaching correcte not them selues that then they shoulde be punyshed And if you doe aske whye they shoulde be more compelled vnto the sermons then vnto the supper of the Lorde or why they are not as well to be admitted vnto the one as vnto the other you see the like done in the sacrament of baptisme whych may not be ministred vnto all to whome the word may be preached The reason also is at hand for the preaching of the worde of God to the papistes is an offer of the grace of God whych may be made to those whych are strangers from God but the ministring of the holy sacraments vnto them is a declaration and seale of Gods fauor reconciliation with them and a plain preaching partly that they be washed already from their sinnes partly that they are of the houshold of God and such as the Lord will feede to eternail lyfe whych is not lawful to be don to those whych are not of the houshold of fayth And therfore I conclude that the compelling of papists vnto the communion and the dismissing and letting of them go wheÌ„ as they be to be punyshed for their stubbernes in popery wyth thys condition if they will receiue the communion is very vnlawful when as although they wold receyue it yet they ought to be kept back vntil such time as by their religious and gospellike behauior they haue purged themselues of that suspition of popery whych their former life and conuersation hath caused to be conceyued As for the fee that M. doctor sayeth we be worthy of for shewing our selues as he sayth so good patrones of the papistes he hath geuen vs well to vnderstande what it should be if he were the paymaister but as we serue the Lord in thys worke so we loke for rewarde at hys hande not fearing but that the Lord will in the ende geue such blessing vnto our labors as we shal not neede greatly to feare at the hands of those whych God hath placed in authority thereward whych you do so often call for Vnto that whych is contained in the two next sections in the. 103. and a peece of the. 104. pages I haue answeared before partly particularly and partly when I noted the generall faults of the seruice boke especially seeing that M. Doctor wil not defend the piping and organes nor no other singing then is vsed in the reformed churches whych is in the singing of two Psalmes one in the beginning and an other in the ending in a plaine tune easye bothe to be sung of those whych haue no arte in singing and vnderstanded of those whych because they can not read can not sing wyth the rest of the churche The reply vnto the next section whych is contained in the 106. 107. and a peece of the. 108. pages FOr that whych is in the. 105. page and concerneth the surplice I haue answeared before There foloweth the interrogatories or demaundes ministred vnto the infants in baptisme for the profe wherof is brought in the first place Dionisius Areopagita a worthy couer for such a cup. For to let pas that M. doctor alledgeth the celestiall hierarchie in stead that he should haue cited the ecclesiasticall hierarchie thys testimony being founde in the one and not in the other dare M. Doctor be so bold as to delude the worlde in so great light wyth suche bables as thys doth he thinke that the author of these bokes of hierarchies being so full of subtile speculations vain and idle fansies wicked blasphemies making one order of popes an other of prelates the third of sacrificers and then of monkes some of whych orders came not many hundreth yeares after that time wherin Denis the Arcopagite liued which mentioneth many folish ceremonies and corruptions that no other author neyther Greeke nor Latine stories nor others diuers hundreth yeares after dothe make any mention of besydes hym I say doth he thynke to abuse men and to geue them such drosse in steade of siluer such chaffe in stead of corne as to make vs beleue that he that wrote these bokes of hierarchie was s. Paules scholer for the better blasing of this Denis armes I will send the reader vnto that whych Erasmus wryteth of thys Denis of M. Doctors vpon the. 17. of the Actes of the Apostles where he also sheweth togither wyth hys owne iudgement the iudgement of Laurentius Valla. I am not ignorant what Nicephorus a fabulous historiographer and of no credite in such matters and in those matters especially whych myght lyke or mislike those times wherin he wrote sayeth of S. Paules communicating wyth Denis and another concerning the heauenly and Ecclesiasticall hierarchie But because I thynke M. Doctor be now ashamed of hys Denis I wil folow it no further By thys it may appeare that M. Doctors Dionisius being a counterfet and startvp these interrogatories and demauÌ„ds ministred vnto the infants haue not so many gray haires as he would make vs beleue although in dede the question lyeth not in the antiquitie As for reasons he hath none but only as one which hath learned hys aequipollences very euil he maketh it all one to say I renouÌ„ce and to say I will teach an other to renounce As for S. Augustines place although I can not alow hys reason that he maketh nor the proportion that is betwene the sacrament of the body and bloud of our sauioure Christe and hys body and bloud it selfe of one side and betwene the sacrament of baptisme and faith of the other side saying that as the sacrament of the body of Christ after a sort is the body so the baptisme of the sacrament of faith is after a sort faith whereas he should haue sayd that as the supper being the sacrament of y body of Christe is after a sort the body of Christ so baptisme being a sacrament of the bloud of Christ is after a sort the bloud of Christ for faith is not the subiect of baptisme as the body and bloud of Christ is the matter of the supper Yet I say that S. Augustine hath no one word to approue thys abuse of answearing in the childes name in hys person but goeth about to establish an other abuse whych was that it was lawfull for those that presented the childe to say that it beleeued So that it is lyke that the minyster dyd aske those whych presented the infant whether they thought that it was faithfull and dyd beleeue and those whych presented it sayd it was so wherevpon thys question rose whether it was lawfull to say that the childe beleeued In the. 191. and. 192. pages he speaketh of thys agayne but he doth nothing els but repeat in both places that whych is here only he sayth that it is a mocking of God to vse the place of the Galathians God is not mocked against

those lawes of discipline whiche hee hath prescribed And whereas M. Doctor woulde bring vs into a foolish paradise of oure selues as though we neede not to learne any thing at the churches of Fraunce Scotland he should haue vnderstanded that as we haue bene vnto them in example haue prouoked them to follow vs so the Lord will haue vs also profite and be prouoked by their example and so be mutuall helpes one to an other and stirre vp our selues with the admonition that our sauiour Christ stirred vp hys apostles that oftentimes those that are first are not forwardest but are ouerrun of others that come after And whereas he would priuely pinch at the reformation there for so much as the Lord hath humbled the one and exerciseth the other by cyuill warres and troubles he should haue in steade of rocking vs a sleepe in our securitie put vs in remembraunce of Gods scourges which hang ouer vs and of Gods great pacience that still taryeth for our repentaunce and that if hee haue punyshed that people of hys which haue suffered so much for the profession of the Gospell and which went with so strayght a foote in it with an vniuersall hazarde of their goodes and lyues that wee shall not escape vnlesse wee repent spedely of our coldnes and halting in relygion and vnwillingnes I will not say to hazarde to put our lyues in daunger but not to leese some of our wealth and honor for the obtayning of a through reformation of the churche and aduauncement of the glory of the Lord. Finally he would rather haue put vs in remembrance of the sermon which our sauiour Christ maketh where he sheweth that those cyties are not alwares the greatest sinners or those whome God is most angry with which haue the heauiest iudgementes executed vpon them but that thereby the Lord calleth vs to repentance otherwyse that we shall lykewise pearish Thys had bene more fit forourestate to haue bene sayd then to haue after a sort insulted vpon the afflicted daubed vp our eyes that we should not see our mysery and our nakednes In all the rest M. Doctor hath nothing but wordes of reproch agaynst the authors of the Admonition and calling still as hys manner is for more punishment for them which I will not bestow the answere of The reply vnto the section in the. 146. 147. 148. pages Sed etiam quodam in loco facetus esse voluisti Deus bone quam te illud non decet Heere M. Doctor was disposed to make hym selfe and hys reader mery but it is with the bagpipe or countrey mirth not with the Harpe or Lute which the learned were wont to handle For he hath packed vp together the olde tale of the curst wyfe and of the theefe that toke away the priestes purse very familiar homely geare It might peraduenture make M. Doctor hop about the house but the learned the wyse can not daunce by thys instrument It pleaseth M. Doctor to compare those which be put out of their lyuings without iust cause to heretickes curst wiues and to theeues but all men do vnderstand how rightly What hys troubles be within and in hys conscience the Lord God and hee knoweth best but as for the outwarde persecution which he suffereth it is not such as he neede thus to stoupe or to grone and to blow vnderneath it as though he had some great burthen vpon hys shoulders And if he complayne of the persecution of the tong to let passe hys immoderate heate of speach which he vseth with those that he hath to doe with all the tong which is more intemperate then hys is in all hys booke shall hardly be founde And although it be vnreasonable enough that he should not geue men leaue to complayne of their troubles when he gloryeth in troubling them yet that of all is most vntollerable that besides the iniury which he doth theÌ„ he is angry the they wil not lay hands of theÌ„ selues by casting theÌ„ selues out of their lyuings or euer they bee cast out by hym Tullie maketh meÌ„tioÌ„ of one C. Funbria which wheÌ„ he had caused Q. Sceloua a singular in aÌ„ to be wounded saw that he dyed not of it conueÌ„ted hym before the iudges being asked what he had to accuse hym of answeared for that he dyd not suffer the whole weapon wherewith he was stricken to enter into hys body euen so M. Doctor contenteth not hym selfe only to doe iniuries vnto men but accuseth them also that they wil not do it vnto theÌ„ selues or that they would not willingly suffer hys weapons enter so farre as he would haue them What conscience is there that bindeth a man to depart from hys lyuing in that place where he lyketh not of all the orders which are there vsed is it not enough to abstayne from theÌ„ if there be any euill in them or to declare the vnlawfulnes of them if hys calling do suffer hym when as the reformation is not in hys power And if eyther of this abstayning or declaration of thys vnlawfulnes of them troubles be moued there is no more cause why they should geue place then the other which lyke of those disorders yea there is lesse cause for that they are not the causes of trouble but the other and for that by their departure out of theyr places roume is made for those whiche will lyke of those disorders which the other mislyked which is to the hurt of that company or congregation in such places And as for M. Doctors easynes to depart from hys lyuing rather then he would cause any trouble hee geueth men great cause to doubt of which hauing dyuers great lyuinges and amongst them a benefice is very loth to goe from troubling of others to doe hys duety at any of them It is true that the church of England may haue an order whereunto it may iustly require the subscription of the mynisters in Englande And so is it likewyse vntrue that we desire that euery one should haue hys own fansy and lyue as hym listeth for we also desire an vniforme order but such and in such sort as we haue before declared As for the olde accusation of Anabaptisme and confusion it is answeared before therefore according to my promise I will leaue your wordes and if you haue any matter I will speake to that Vnto the. 149. and. 150. pages THe Admonition hath no such thing as M. Doctor chargeth the authors thereof with that they dyd euer allow of the booke of seruice It sayeth they bare with it and vsed it so farre as they might and therefore now when it came to the approuing of it by subscription they refused there is no man which can not vnderstand that it is one thing to beare with a thing and an other to approue it and therefore to beare and to vse it so farre as might be may we ll agree with their refusall of subscription so that M. Doctors note is

not worth the noting The Apostles dyd beare with the infirmitie of the Iewes addicted to the obseruation of the ceremoniall law yet they neuer alowed that infirmitie and they were so farre from approuing it by subscribing that they wrote agaynst it Those sayth M. D. which authorized thys booke were studious of peace and of building of Christes church therefore they that speake agaynst it which hee calleth defacing are disturbers of the peace and destroyers of the church So I will reason Gedeon was studious of peace and of building of the churche therefore they whiche spake agaynst the Ephod which he made were disturbers of the peace and destroyers of the church We speake agaynst images in churches and consubstantiation in the sacramentes and such lyke which Luther being studious of peace and of the building of the church dyd holde and yet we are not therfore disturbers of peace or destroyers of the church Although they were excellent personnages yet their knowledge was in part although they brought many things to our light yet they being sent out in the morning or euer the sunne of the gospell was rysen so hygh might ouersee many things which those that are not so sharpe of fight as they were may see for because that which they want in the sharpnes of sight they haue by the benefite and clearenesse of the sun and of the light They sealed not the booke of seruice with their bloud as M. Doctor sayeth for some that suffred for the truth declared openly theyr myslyking of certayne thinges in it and as for the other they coulde neuer dye for that booke more then for the lyturgie vsed in the Frenche churche or at Geneua For they receiued not the sentence of condemnation because they approued that booke but because they improued the articles drawne out of the masse booke And if they had dyed for that booke as in deede they dyed for the booke of God yet the authoritie of theyr martyrdome coulde not take away from vs thys lyberty that we haue to enquire of the cause of theyr death Iustin and Cyprian were godly martyrs yet a man may not say that they sealed their errors which they wrote with theyr bloud or with thys glory of their martyrdome preiudice those which speake or wryte agaynst their erroures for thys is to oppose the bloud of men to the bloud of the sonne of god For the papistes triumph I haue answeared before and I will not striue about the Goates wolle who is the opponent who the respondent in thys difference From the. 151. page vnto the. 171. page all is answeared where these things which are heere ioyned are seuerally handled now vnto that in the. 171. and. 172. pages I answere the although it be meete that as we hope that the homylies which are made already be godly so those that shall be made hereafter shall be lykewise yet considering the mutabilitie of men and that oftentymes to the worse it is not meete nay it is merely vnlawfull to subscribe to a blancke seeing that wee can not witnesse or allow of those things which we haue not sene nor heard The place vnto the Corinthes is the same vnto the Romanes and M. Doctor approuing one hath no cause to fynde fault with the other For the homylies first of all I haue shewed how absurde a saying and how vnlyke a dyuine it is to match reading of homylies with preaching of sermons For if the reading of the holy scriptures is nothing so fruitefull as the preaching of them muche lesse is the reading of homylies to be for their frute matched with preaching of sermons There remayneth that I shew briefely that neyther the homylies nor the Apochripha are at all to be red in the churche Wherein first it is good to consider the order which the Lorde kept with hys people in tymes past when he commaunded that no vessell nor no instrument eyther beesome or flesh hooke or pan c. shuld come into the temple but those only which were sanctifyed sette apart for that vse And in the booke of Numbers he will haue no other trumpets blowne to cal the people together but those only which were set apart for y purpose What should the meaning of thys law be The matter of other common vessels trumpets was the same oftentimes which theirs was the same forme also the other beesomes and hookes and trumpets hable to serue for the vses of sweeping and sounding c. as well as those of the temple and as those which were set aparte wherfore mought not these then as well be vsed in the temple as others Forsothe because the Lord would by these rudiments and pedagogie teache that he would haue nothing brought into the church but that which he had appoynted no not althoughe they seemed in the iudgement of men as good as those things which God him selfe had placed there Which thing is much more to be obserued in this matter seeing that the homilies red be they neuer so learned and pithye neyther the Apochrypha are to be compared either in goodnes within theÌ„selues eyther in frute or in effect towardes the hearer wyth the authenticall scriptures of god Now if a man will say that the Homilies do explane lay open the scriptures I answer that the word of God also is plain and easy to be vnderstanded and such as giueth vnderstanding to idiotes to the simple And if there be hardnes in them yet the promise of the assistance of Gods spirite that God hath giuen to the reading of the scriptures in the church whych he hath not giuen to homilies or to the Apochrypha will be able to weigh wyth the hardnes and to ouercome it so that there shall easely appeare greater profit to come vnto the church by reading of the scriptures then by reading of homilies Besides thys the pollicy of the church of God in times past is to be folowed herein that for the expounding of darker places places of more easines ought to be ioyned together as in the persecutioÌ„ of Antiochus wher they could not haue the commodity of preaching the Iewes dyd appoynt at their meetings alwayes a peece of the law to be red with all a peece of the prophets whych expounded y peece of the lawe rather then to bring in interpretations of men to be red And because I am entred into that matter heere cometh to be considered the practise also of the church both before our sauior Christes comming and after that when the churches met together there is nothing mentioned but the reading of the scriptures for so is the Lyturgie described in the Actes And it is not to be thought but that they had those whych made expositioÌ„s of the law and the prophets And besydes that they had Onkelos the Calday paraphrast bothe Galatine Rabby Moses surnamed Maymon write that Ionathan an nother of the Calday paraphrasts floryshed in oure sauyor Christes tyme whose

to take vp any such custome in the tyme of the lawe it was not only not vsed but vtterly forbidden For when the law did forbyd that the priest should not be at the buryall which ought to say or conceiue the prayers there it is cleare y the Iewes might not haue any such prescript form And yet they had most nede of it for the causes of obscure knowledge weaker fayth before alledged Againe by thys meanes a newe charge is layd vpon the minister and a taking hym away from his necessary dueties of feeding and gouerning the flocke whych being so great as a maruellous diligence will scarcely ouercome oughte not to be made greater by thys being a thyng so vnnecessary The Admonition dothe not say that the Prayers whych are sayd are for the dead but that they maintaine an opinion of prayer for the deade in the heartes of the simple and that they declare manifestly enoughe when they say that it may be partly gathered c. For the mournyng apparell the admonition sayeth not simply it is euill because it is done of custome but proueth that it is hypocritical ofteÌ„times for that it proceedeth not from any sadnes of minde whych it dothe pretende but worne only of custome there being vnder a mourning gowne of tentimes a mery heart And considering that where there is sorow in deede for the dead there it is very hard for a man to kepe a measure that he do not lament too much We ought not to vse those meanes whereby we myght be further prouoked to sorow and so go a great way beyonde the measure whych the apostle apoynteth in mournyng no more then it was well done of the Iewes in the gospell to prouoke weping sorowe for their deade by some dolfull noise or sounde of instrument or then it was lawfull for Mary Lazarus sister to goe to her brothers graue thereby to set the print of her sorow deper in her minde Seing therefore if there be no sorowe it is hypocritical to pretend it and if there be it is very dangerous to prouoke it or to cary the notes of remeÌ„brance of it it appeareth that this vse of mourning apparel were much better layed away then kept And here M. doctor threps a litle kindnes of the authors of the admonition sayth that they know it is very ancient whom before he denyeth to haue any knowledge of antiquity In dede it is very ancient but M. doctor is afraid to shew the ancienty of it for Cyp. and Aug. inueigh vehemently agaynst it condemnyng it as vnlawfull and vndecent Nowe touching the funerall sermons M. doctor taketh on tryumpheth maruellously as though he had already gotten the victorye but he that girdeth hys harnes should not boast as he that putteth it of There is more matter then peraduenture M. doctor is aware of that whych is set downe he answeareth not as that it norysheth an opinion that the dead are the better for it whych doth appeare in the there are none more desirous of funerall sermons then the papists whych although they can not abide the doctrine whych is preached yet they wil haue suche sermons and those whych will very seldome or not at all be at other sermons will not commonly misse one of these Furthermore for so much as the minyster is driuen oftentimes by this meanes to preach vpon a sodaine the word of God therby is negligently handled especially of those whose gyftes are not so great as that they can prouide in so small time and by thys neglygent handlyng of the word of God it is brought into contempt Moreouer consydering that these funerall sermons are at the request of rych men and those whych are in authoritye and are very seldome at the buryall of the pore there is brought into the church contrary to the word of God an acceptation of persons which ought not to be For although the minister may giue to one more honor then to an other accordyng as the callyng or degree requireth yet in hys mynistery that whych pertaineth vnto hys office he ought to shew hymselfe indifferent and therfore preach as wel at the death of the pore as of the rych and because he can not well do both it is most conuenient to leaue both If so be that M. doctor wyl say that it is good that notable and famous men shuld haue their commendation to the ende that bothe the goodnes of God towardes them myght be the better knowne and others the soner drawne to followe theyr example I graunt it is so and the scrypture dothe bothe approue it and sheweth what meane is best to doe that by For so we read that Ieremy the prophet commended that godly and zealous prince Iosias in wryting verses of hys deathe He could haue as easely preached but thys he thought the best way So did also Dauid wryte verses at the death of Saul and Ionathan and Abner in whych he commendeth their gyfts and graces whych the Lord had bestowed vpon theÌ„ There were in deede of ancient time funerall orations as appeareth in Gregory Nazianzen but they sauoured of the manner of Athens where he was brought vp where also thys custome of funerall orations was vsed as may be seene in the second boke of Thucydydes story by an oration of Pericles And althoughe thys custome was not in Nazianzeus time so corrupt as afterwardes yet the departing from the examples of the purer churches gaue occasion of further corruption whych ensued And to say the truth it was better vsed amongst the Athenians then amongst the christians For there it was merely ciuill and the oration at the death of some notable personage made not by a minister but by an Orator appoynted therfore whych I thinke may well be done And if M. doctor will say that there myght be sermones although they be not mentioned neyther in the old testament nor in the new I haue answered before that seeing the holy ghost doth describe so dilygently the least circumstances of burial he would not haue omitted that being the greatest And let it be obserued that thys deuise of mannes braine bryngeth forth the same frute that other do the is dryueth quite away a necessary duety of the minister whych is to comfort wyth the worde of God the parties whych be greued at the death of their frends that consideryng the sore is perticular he apply vnto it a perticular plaister whych is very seldome or neuer done and yet a necessary duety as of a good christian so especially of the minister whych can best do it and to whome it most appertaineth And whereas M. doctor asketh when there is a better time to speake of death and of mortality then at buryall surely if it had ben so fit the Prophets and apostles would neuer haue lost that oportunity or let pas that occasion of aduancing and making effectuall their preaching What if it be answered that for as muche

a light foote the Heades and Summes of things then to number the faultes which are almost as many as there are sentences in thys booke more I am sure then there are pages ACcording to my promise made in my boke I haue here set down the iudgement of the later wryters concerning these matters in controuersy betwene vs Wherein because I loue not to translate out of other mens workes whereby I might make myne to grow I haue kept thys moderation that I neither sette down all the wryters nor all their places that I could nor yet of euery singuler matter but the chefest wryters and other of the cheefest poyntes or else of those wherein they are alleadged agaynst vs by M. Doctor and one only place of eche as farre as I could iudge and choose out most direct to that wherefore I haue alleaged it For otherwyse if I would haue spoken of all the poyntes and of the iudgement of all the wryters and gathered all the places that I could they woulde haue bene sufficient matter of an other booke as bigge or rather bigger then thys I must also admonish the Reader that I haue for borne in certeine of these Titles to set downe the iudgements of M. Beza M. Bullinger and M. Gualter because they are comprehended in the Confessyon of the Churches And thus partly vpon those sentences which I haue alleaged in thys booke and partely vpon these Testimonies heere set downe I leaue to the consyderation of all men how truely and iustly it is sayde that the learned wryters of these tymes one or two onely excepted are agaynst vs. 1 That there ought now to be the same regiment of the Church which was in the Apostles tyme. THe confession of the Heluetian Tygurin Berne Geneua Polonia Hungary and Scotland with others in the. 18. chapter speaking of the equality of the ministers sayth that no man may iustly forbyd to returne to the old constitution of the church of God and to receiue it before the custome of man. M. Caluin in hys Institututions 4. booke 3. chapter and 8. section speaking of the auncientes which dyd assist the pastor in euery church sayth that experieÌ„ce teacheth that that order was not for one age that thys office of gouernment is necessary to all ages And in the. 12. chapter and first section of the same booke sayth as much of Excommunication and other Ecclesiasticall censures Peter Martyr vpon the third to the Rom. teacheth that although the common wealth chaunge her gouernment yet the church alwayes kepeth hers still Bucer in hys first booke of the kingdome of Christ 15. chapter lamenteth that there were founde amongst those which are counted of the forwardest christians which woulde not haue the same disciplyne vsed now that was in the times of the Apostles obiecting the differences of tymes and of men 2. That one mynister ought not to haue any dominion ouer an other The foresayde Heluetian Confession c. in the seuententh Chapter sayeth that Christ dyd most seuerely prohibite vnto hys Apostles their successors primacy domynion in the 18. Chap. sayth that equall power function in geuen vnto all the mynisters of the church that from the beginning no one preferred him selfe to a nother sauing only the for order some one dyd call theÌ„ together propounde the matters that were to be consulted of gathered the voyces c. Musculus in hys Common places in the chap. of the offices of the mynisters of the word sayth that in the Apostolike church the ministers of the word were none aboue an other nor subiect to any heade or president mislyketh the setting vp of any one in higher degree then an other And further he sayth vppon the second chap. of the second Epistle to the Thessalonians that the honor of a byshop being taken from the rest of the mynisters and geuen to one was the first step to the papacie how so euer in other places he speaketh otherwyse 3. That the election of mynisters pertayneth not to one man. The foresayd Heluetian Confession c. in the. 18. Chapter sayth that the mynisters ought to be chosen of the church or by those which are lawfully deputed of the church and afterward ordayned with publike prayers M. Caluin in hys 4. booke of Institutions 3. chap. 15. section sheweth that the Church dyd chuse and that the Apostles dyd monderate the election and confuteth them which vpon the places of Titus and Timothe would proue that the election belongeth to one man. 4. That there ought now to be elders to gouerne the church with the Pastors and Deacons to prouide for the poore Touching Elders the iudgement of M. Caluin hath bene before declared in the first of these propositions M. Beza in hys booke of diuorces page 161. sayeth that the Eldershyp of the church ought to be where there is a Christian magistrate Touching Deacons M. Caluin 4. boke 3. chap. 9. section after that hee had described what deacons the churches had in the Apostles tymes sayeth that we after their example ought to haue the lyke M. Beza in the. 5. cap. and. 23. section of hys confessions sheweth that the office of the distribution of the goodes of the church is an ordinary function in a church lawfully constituted which office in the. 30. he calleth the Deaconship P. Martyr vpon the. 12. to the Rom. speaking of the Elders which did asist the pastor in euery Church of the Deacons lamenteth that thys order is so fallen out of the church that the names of these functions do skarce remayne M. Bucer in hys first booke of the kingdome of Christ for the auncientes of the Church sayeth that the number of the Elders of euery church ought to be encreased according to the multitude of the people and in the. 14. chap. of the same booke sayeth that thys order of Deaconshyppe was relygiously kept in the church vntill it was driuen out by Antichrist 5. That excommunication pertayneth not to any one man in the Church M. Caluin in hys Institutions 4. booke and. 11. chap. and. 6. section teacheth that Excommunication pertayneth not to one man that it was too wicked a fact that one man taking the authoritie which was common to other to himselfe alone opened a way to tyranny tooke from the Church her right and abrogated the church Senate ordayned by the spirite of Christ And in the. 12. chap. and. 7. section hee sayeth further that it ought not to be done without the knowledge and approbation of the Church M. Beza in hys confessions 5. chap. 43. section sayeth that thys power of excommunicating is geuen to no one man except it please God to worke extraordinarily Peter Martyr vpon the. 1. to the Corinthes and. 5. chap. sayeth that it is very daungerous to permit so waighty a matter as excommunication to the discretion and will of any one man And therfore both that tyranny might be auoyded and thys censure executed with greater frute

and grauitie that the order which the Apostle there vseth is still to be obserued M. Bucer of the kingdome of Christ in the. 1. booke and. 9. chap. sayeth that S. Paule accuseth the Corinthians for that the whole church dyd not cast out of their company the incestuous person 6. That Chauncelors Commissaries Officials c. vsurpe authority in the Church which belongeth not to them M. Caluin in hys Institutions 4. boke 11. chap. 7. sect speaketh agaynst the office of Officials and alledgeth diuers reasons agaynst them as that they exercise that part of the Byshops charge and that they handle matters whiche pertayne not to the spirituall iurisdiction M. Beza in hys boke of Diuorces prouing that the iudiciall deciding of matrimonyall causes appertayneth vnto the cyuill magistrate sayeth that officials proctors and promoters and in a word all the swinish filth now of long time hath wasted the church Peter Martyr vpon the. 13. chap. to the Romaines speaking agaynst the ciuill iurisdiction of byshops doth by the same reason condemne it in their deputies the officials 7. That the mynisters of the worde ought not to exercise any ciuill offices and iurisdiction M. Caluin in hys Institutions 4. boke 11. chap. 9. sect bringeth dyuers reasons to proue that byshops may neyther vsurpe nor take being geuen them eyther the right of the sword or the knowledge of ciuill causes M. Beza in hys Confessions chap. 5. sect 32. sayth that the Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction is to be distinguished from the ciuill and that although the byshops in the times of Christian Emperoures were troubled with the hearing of cyuill causes yet they dyd not that by any iudiciall power which they exercised but by a frendly entreaty of the parties which were at discorde and sayeth notwithstanding that herein the Emperors dyd geue too much to the ambytion of certayne byshoppes whereupon by little and by litle afterwarde all thinges were confounded And in the. 42. section sayeth that those corporall punyshmentes which the Apostles exercised were peculier and extraordinary Peter Martyr vpon the. 13. to the Romaines speaking of thys meeting of both Ecclesiasticall and ciuill iurisdiction in one man sayeth that when both the ciuill Ecclesiasticall functions do so meete that one hindreth the other so that he which exerciseth the one can not mynister the other M. Bucer vpon the. 5. of Mathew sayeth that there is no man so wise holy which is able to exercise both the ciuill the Ecclesiasticall power and that therfore he which will exercise the one must leaue the other 8. That the sacraments ought not to be priuately administred nor by women The forsayd confession .c. 20. holdeth that baptisme ought not to be mynistred by women or midwiues to the which also may be ioyned the Liturgy of the English church at Geneua which coÌ„demneth the mynistring of either of the sacraments in priuate houses or by women Peter Martyr vpon the. 11. chap. of the. 1. ep to the Corinthes in describing the corruptions of the Lordes supper noteth thys to be one that the church dyd not communicate altogether which corruption as it was in dyuers places in times past so he complayneth that it is now M. Bucer in hys first booke of the kingdome of Christ and. 7. chap. proueth out of the. 10. to the Corinth that the whole church should receiue the supper of the Lord together and that the vse of the church of God in thys behalfe ought with great and dyligent endeuour to be restored vnto the churches that it is a contempt of the mysteries not to be partakers when they are called M. Beza agaynst Westphalus sheweth that it is not decent that baptisme be mynistred but in the church that at standing houres and by the mynisters and further that vppon no necessitie as it is called it ought to be mynistred in priuate houses And that if it might be mynistred in priuate houses yet no otherwyse then by mynisters M. Caluin in hys institutions 4. booke chap. 15. sect 20. 21. proueth that baptisme ought not to be mynistred by priuate men or by any women 9. The iudgement of those late wryters touching ceremonies and apparell whose secret Epistles M. Doctor alledgeth appeareth by these places folowing cited but of their workes Printed and published by them selues Wherof also some are alledged by the answerer to the examiner where are diuers other places to thys purpose wherunto I referre the Reader M. Bucer vpon the. 18. of Math. sayth that they say nothing which doe alwayes obiect that greater things must be vrged then the reformation of ceremonies therby defending the reliques of Antichrist forasmuch as ceremonies are testimonies of religion And that as there is no agreement betwene Christ and Belial so those which are sincere Christians can abyde nothing of Antichrist Peter Martyr vpon the .10 c. of the .2 booke of the kings sayeth that the Lutheranes must take heede least whilest they cut of many popishe errors they follow Iehu by retayning also many popish things For they defend still the reall presence in the breade of the supper and images and vestmentes c. and sayth that relygion must be wholy reformed to the quicke Bullinger in hys Decades 5. booke and. 9. sermon sayth that our sauior Christ the Apostles vsed their accustomed apparell in the supper and that although in times past the ministers put on a kynde of cloke vppon their common apparell yet that was done neither by the example of Christ nor of hys Apostles but by the tradition of man and that in the ende after the example of the priestes apparell in the olde law it was cast vpon the mynisters at the ministration of the supper But sayeth he we haue learned long agoe not only that all Leuiticall ceremonies are abrogated but also that they ought to bee brought agayne into the church of no man And therefore seing we are in the light of the gospell and not vnder the shadow of the law we doe worthely reiect that massing Leuiticall apparell Gualter vpon the. 21. of the Actes among others bringeth thys for one reason to improue Paules shauing of hys head for that the gospell had beene preached .xx. yeares and that therefore the infirmitie of the Iewes ought not to haue beene borne with And after hee sayeth that that teacheth how much the supersticious masters of ceremonyes hurte the gospell which nourishe the weakenes of fayth by the long keeping of ceremonyes and by their long bearing hynder the doinges of those mynisters which are more feruent FINIS Prouer. 8. 15. 2. Chap. 34. 60. chap. 12. 3. Deut. 25. 2. Samu. 7. 2. Psal 132. Esra 3. 3. 10. Agg. 1. 14. 2. kin 22. 23. 2. kin 18. 2. Chr. 17. 8 Chap. 17. 18 1. Cor. 1. 27. 28 2. Chro. 29. 34 2. Chr. 30. 17. 2. Kin. 5. 4. 14 1. Sam. 25. 18 1. Agg. 234. 1. Cor. 3. 12. 13 2. Cor. 6. 15. Cap. 2. 42. 43. Rom. 12. 18. 2. Cor. 10.

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