more necessary than now when those undertake to inform and teach the Nation who have not so much knowledg as the Prophesying Ape with which Giles of Passamonte went about to cosen the Country N. C. What was that C. It had this notable faculty that it could tell nothing at all of what was to come but knew something of what was past and a little of things present otherwise it would never mount up to Giles his shoulder and chatterin his ear But this Phil. of yours frisks and grins in my face and grates his teeth apace and looks upon me as a scurvy lyar and yet confesses himself Ignorant of what is past and that when he mounts up himself without any bidding to talk of it Thus the poor people are cosened and this man cosens their Conscience while such as the other only pick their pockets of twelve pence a piece N. C. Why What Liturgy were they wont to use in Scotland or when was the Church of Scotland for the use of a Liturgy Were they not alway without and against a Form of Divine Service C. You need not repeat his words I was going to tell you that it is endless to write to such a Scribler who will ask that Question again which hath been already Answered Did I not tell you in our last Dehate r Continuation of the Friendly Debate p. 409. that the Scottish Form of Prayer was printed here in England in the beginning of the late Wars But he is not at leisure to read Books He is a writer forsooth and cannot spare so much time from this great imployment as to read the Book he writes against For had it pleased him to be at this pains there he might have heard of the strange thing which he imagines no body ever saw the Scots Form of Divine Service But he will think perhaps that I wrote like himself without any care at all and transcribed that passage out of my own imagination and not from the sight of my eyes For your better information therefore you may know that there being some persons at Frankfort in Queen Maries time who would admit no other Form of Prayers but that in the English Book Mr. John Knox a principal Reformer in Scotland afterward joyned with those who quarrell'd at it But it appears by the story that he was not against a Form of Divine Service no nor against all things in the English Book But as he had an high esteem of the Composers of it s Witness the Commendation he gives Cranmer whom he called that Reverend Father in God Admonition to the Professors of the Truth in England An. 1554. p. 51. so he approved in great part of the work it self A brief description indeed of it being sent by him and Whittingham to Mr. Calvin and his opinion of it return'd Jan. 22. 1555. Mr. Knox and four more were ordered to draw forth another order of Divine Service which was the very same with that of Geneva But part of the Congregation still adhering to the Book of England after some Conference they composed a new Order by the advice of Mr. Knox some of it taken out of the English Book and other things added as the State of the Church required and to this all consented as we are told in the Discourse of the Troubles of Frankfort t Repriâ—ed here 1642. P. 30 31. A little after Dr. Cox coming thither answered aloud as the manner is here which bred a new contention And to be short the English Book was again established and continued though afterward they left off the use of the Ceremonies and Mr. Knâ—â— went to Geneva There I find he was when Queen Mary dyed being one of those who subscribed the Letter to the Church at Frankfort u Decemb. 15. 1558. desiring that whatsoever offences had been given or taken might be forgotten and that all might lovingly agree when they met in England Not long after he went into Scotland where some had begun a Reformation More particularly it had been concluded by the Lords and Barons a little after their first Covenant x In which they who forsook Popery ingaged themselves to each other by a Common Bond. Decemb. 3. 1557. that it was thought expedient advised and ordained that in all Parishes of the Realm the Common Prayer should be read weekly on Sundays and other Festivals publickly in the Parish-Church with the Lessons of the Old and New Testament conforming to the ORDER OF THE BOOK OF COMMON PRAYER And if the Curates of the Parishes be qualified to cause them to read the same if not or they refuse that the most qualified in the Parish use and read it y History of the Church of Scotl. ascribed to Mr. Knox. Book 1. pag. 110. In this Settlement Mr. Knox found them and though the Queen discharged the Common Prayers and forbad to give any portions to such as were the principal young men who read them yet they continued to be read z Ibid. Book 2. pag. 170. an 1559. And what was thus began by a few persons was afterward compleated by a more Publick Decree For by a General Assembly holden in December 1562. it was ordained that one Vniform Order should be observed in the Administration of the Sacraments according to the Order of Geneva That is as I understand it the very same which Mr. Knox and the rest had used when they were there And two year after Decemb. 1564. It was again ordained that Ministers in the Ministration of the Sâ—craments should use the Order set down in the Psalm Book a Both these I have out of the Disputation against the Assembly at Perth and they are alledged to prove there should be no kneeling at the Sacrament because their Old Order did not prescribe it to which now that Form I suppose was annexed Nor did Mr. Knox think himself above these Forms but made use of them as appears from hence That being desired before the Council to moderate himself in his Form of praying for the Queen he related to them the most vehement and most excessive manner of Prayer that he used in Publick and after he had repeated the words at length concluded thus This is the Form of Common Prayer as you your selves can witness b Ib. Book 4 p. 380. an 1564. The same History also records a Form of Publick Prayer used in the Church of St. Giles in Edenburgh upon the Peace made with France c July 8. 1560. p. 245. and aâ—â— ther Form d P. 287. at the Election of Superintendents He also that wrote the Mederate Reply e An. 1646. to the City Remonstranâ—â— against Toleration presents the Remonstrants in the last leaf of his Book with a Form of Thanksgiving used in the Church of Scotland for their deliverance from the French by the English An. 1575. Bâ—t why do I mention these particular Prayers There was Printed as I said 1641. the Service and
page 154 155 Their great presumption page 157 The Power of Boldness page 159 Some instances of the great Impudence of this man page 160 161 c. Of their smuity Discourse page 163 A wicked Suggestion page 166 Two of their Popular Arts page 168 169 How Smect dealt with Bishop Hall page 170 They abuse the Scripture as the ancient Hereticks did page 171 172 c. A Discourse of Dr. Jackson's on this subject page 174 c. W. B. misapplication of Scripture page 176 And others page 177 Their conceit of themselves page 179 198 And sottish abuse of holy words page 180 181 Impudent excuses they make rather than confess Errors page 181 182 186 Of pretences to Visions page 183 Another dangerous notion of W. B. page 185 Of Pretences to Revelations page 187 c. New Lights page 18â— How mild they are toward high offenders among themselves page 192 c The reason men so easily believe lies and asperse others page 195 And rake Libels for them page 19â— His wicked suggestions about Sacriledge page 201 20â— c His pitiful Apology for them page 20â— Mr. Udal's Book about Sacriledg page 20â— How they misimploy their thoughts page 2â—â— A wretched reasoning page 212 21â— How little they value the Peace of the Church page 21â— How much the Ancients valued it page 21â— The hard haerteduess of the N. C. page 216 21â— The lying and jugling of this Writer page 219 c Their aptness to complain page 2â—â— And self-love page 224 Another old trick of the disaffected page 225 c. Their undutiful and causeless clamours c. page 227 228 c. Deprivation for not Conforming to Publike Order is not Persecution page 234 235 c. Magistrates Power to appoint fit Instructers of his people page 237 238 Necessity of punishing those that do not conform page 240 c. The N. C. against so much as a connivance heretofore page 244 The peaceableness of the old N. C. when deprived page 247 Now they are like the Donatists page 250 Men murmur least when Laws are strictly executed page 251 The witlessness of Malice page 255 It is not Godliness but themselves which they contend for page 256 N.C. have acknowledged the Canting of some of their own party page 257 c. How Mr. Calvin and others have been belyed by furious zealots page 260 c. The wild Logick of Philag page 264 c. The Assembly slighted by themselves page 269 c. They love to abuse us in holy Language page 272 The wicked spirit among N. C. page 273 Several sorts of them page 275 Their proud conceit of the power of their Ministry page 278 c. Men grow worse when they become Separatists page 282 Their own Books inform us of a wicked generation among them page 286 c. Advantage the Papists make of their Schism page 289 c. Why called Precisians page 290 Philag his Character of the N. C. page 295 c. Lies and falshoods in his Preface page 298 c. Anotable instance page 302 303 c. Lawfulness and usefulness of Forms of Prayer maintained by Mr. Roger's page 307 308 c. A Form of his which they will not imitate now page 311 Their Prayers more dangerous page 312 Mr. Egerton's Advertisement about Prayer page 313 Dr. Preston's page 315 The newness of the contrary opinion and practice page 315 316 The spirit not straitned by a form of words page 317 Philag against himself page 319 Of the Lyes which are in his Book page 323. to 330 Particularly about Excommunication page 330 331 c. Of going to Plays page 334 to 339 The Ordinances of Parliament about them page 340 How he abuses good sense page 342 c. The N.C. could see and Act worse Plays than any are now page 346 c. Of Trading in Promises page 354 And absolute Promises page 355 c. Their Faith acknowledged sometime to have no ground page 357 c. Of eying the Glory of God page 359 c. Wretched Interpreters of Holy Scripture page 361 c. Of Desertions c. page 364 c. How they have debauched Religion page 367 368 Justifie abuse of Scripture page 369 c. Pretend to mysteries when they are none page 374 c. His vain babble about Experiences and other things page 376 c. Of Perverters of the Sense of Books page 378 c. Punishments contrived for me page 380 c. W. B. lowsie similitude page 382 Wit not to be sought page 384 c. Wrangling without cause page 388 Considerations about the making up our breaches page 391 c. Of Schism page 394 Scandal page 395 Presumption of this Writâ—â— page 396 c. And of his fellows page 398 399 What Praving by the Spirit page 403. ERRATA Page 25. line 2. read Caraculiambre p. 26 l. 16. for Landaf r. Caerleon p. 26. l. 1. add in the marg p 151. of Sober Answer p 60 l. 26. r. manner p. 75 l. 24. r. Sophisters is in him p. 142. marg r. Duplies p. 143. l. 13. d. and before nice p. 153. l. 1. r. and will l. 20. O ye p. 184. l. 19. r. wherewith p. 225 l 27. that they might p. 230. l. 4. r cravings p. 234 l. ult r. their Discipline p. 278. penult flatly deâ— p. 282. l. 20. r. pertly champer p. 285. l. 6. r. to sins p. 288. l. 25. r. Martin Mar Priest p. 31. l. 12. r. for the tooth p. 323. l. 2. d. as p. 325. 2. for from r. form p. 333. l. 14. r. Caracalla p. 34â— l. 22. r. the point p. 354. l. 19. r. Traders p. 355 l. 25. r. of it p. 356. l. 1. r. requires p. 361. l. 1. Dav. Kimchi p. 364. l. 5. r. desertions p. 367. l. â— r. melancholy patient p. 377. l. 8. r. so much p. 37â— marg r. Lord Seguier Chancellor c. p. 380. l. 11 d. I may be able A FURTHER CONTINUATION AND DEFENCE OF THE Friendly Debate N. C. NOw for an Ishmael C. Are you the Isaac's then against whom to speak a word is to scoffe at the Children of God And must we be all cast out like the bondwoman and her son to make room for you the Holy Seed N. C. I did but use the words of a late Writer who hath answered your two Debates p. 19. C. That hath snarl'd and carpt you should have said at some things in them which he did not understand and N. C. This is your old Pride C. It is one of your old Arts rather and wretched shifts to call men proud when you cannot confute them and when you have blotted a great deal of Paper with senseless or impertinent stuff boldly to cry it up for an unanswerable piece N. C. What Arts do you tell me of I know none we use but honesty and plain dealing C. We know a great many other which have alway stood you in mighty stead One is to extoll the men
words which will be thought too scornful by many of you now That a set Form of prayer is lawful much need not be said the very newness of the contrary opinion is enough to show the Vanity and falshood of it The truth of it is it was so new that there were few of those old Divines but they opposed it in their constant practice This Dr. now named Dr. Sibbs Mr. Hildersham Mr. Dod Mr. Bradshaw c. alway using one Set Form of Prayer before their Sermons and some of them in their Families For which the last mentioned gave this reason as Mr. Gataker tels us in his Life i Life of Mr. Wil. Bradshaw published by Mr. Clark p. 67. in Fol because he sitation in prayer is more offensive than in other discourse unto profane ones especially whereof in mixed multitudes and meetings some lightly too many usually are And he affirmed this also to have been Mr. Th. Cartwrights practice with whom he sometimes conversed And Mr. Clark I remember confesses that Mr. Sam. Crook who dyed no longer ago than 1649. was the first man who brought conceived prayer into use in those parts where he lived in Somerset-shire k Collect of 〈◊〉 o◠〈◊〉 Diviâ—â—â— p. 38 〈…〉 If you would see more of this you may read Dr. Prestons Book called the Saints daily Exercise l 〈◊〉 6. 1 31. p. â—â— set forth by Dr. Sibbs and Mr. Davenport where you will find this Question largely handled whether we mâ—y â—se set Forms of Prayer and resolved assirmatively For which he gives many reasons N. C. I 'le seek them when I am at leisure C. Only remember this for the present that he saith he knows no obâ—ection of weight against it How do you like this Doctrine now N. C. Is not the Spirit straitned in stinted Prayer And doth not a man find his Spirit bounded and limited when he is tyed to a Form C. That 's the main objection he tells you to which he gives three substantial Answers The first is that those very men who are against this and use this reason do the same thing daily in the Congregation for when another prays that is a Set Form to him that hears it who hath no liberty to run out though his Spirit should be more large but is bound to keep his mind upon it And therefore if that were a sufficient reason that a man might not use a set Form because the Spirit is straitned it would not be lawfull to hear another pray though it were a conceived Prayer because in that case his Spirit is limited Secondly he tells you though the Spirit be limited at that time yet he hath a liberty at other times to pray as freely as he will It is no general ty though he be then bound up And Thirdly he adds that there is no ty and restraint upon the Spirit because there is a ty to words For the largness of the heart stands not so much in the multitude and variety of Expressions as in the extent of the affections which have no ty upon them when we are tyed in words N. C. Too many words will not do well in any other thing Let us therefore make an end of this C. I shall only tell you that if you turn a leaf or two further m Saints daily Exercise p. 84. you will find another case resolved about the gesture of Prayer which he would have to be very reverend especially in publique And that Mr. Hildersham exhorts to kneeling as the fittest gesture And complains of those that neglected it as also of such as would not sit bare at the reading of the holy Scriptures wishing withall that when we come in and go out of the Church we would give some signification of such reverence as now is rather derided than approved By all which you may see without travelling through the rest of the Authors which he mentions that they will not down with your squeamish stomacks and have been thrust out of doors by a number of frivolous writers among you who can better humour the childish fancies and the corrupt appetites of the professors of this Age. This very man is one of them who jeers those old Puritans as they were called as well as us when he compares a man that uses a Form of Prayer to an Horse in a Mill * Page 97. of his Book which goes round and round and cannot easily go out of his way if he do but jog on though he be hood-winkt and blindfolded N. C. But Religion as he sayes is like to suffer greatly by the not reading of those good writers C. That 's spoken only upon supposition that our Ministers have made them to be rejected but if they have been the cause of it themselves he can tell you another story Doubt not of it he can find you Authors enough as good as they if not better and as many as you please twenty or forty or more Say how many you would have for it 's all one to him whether it be twenty or forty n Pag. 55 56 57. one is as soon said as the other and they shall be such Treatises that there are not better extant in the World of those Subjects N. C. Do you think he will write against himself C. That 's a very small matter with one that minds not what he writes In a twelve moneths time you may think it is easie for a man to forget what he hath writ and so no wonder that he who told us in 1668. that some good Scholars were put to such hard shifts as to beg their bread the Laws at that time being too hard for them and too strictly observed to let them get any sufficient employment for a livelihood o Rebuilding of London p. 331. c. should tell us now 1669. that the severe Ordinances signified next to nothing where he was conversant and should ask to what purpose it is to mention them as long as I tell of no Execution done by them p Sober Answ p. 254 255. But he can do a great deal more than this comes to in an hours time or so he can forget what he hath said and say the contrary In the 31. page of his Preface he tells you that he hath endeavoured to restore me with a Spirit of meekness notwithstanding that but two leaves before p. 26. he had excused himself for not making a milder answer flesh and blood being not able to bear some of my expressions In his Book also if you mark it he desires you to believe he is far from being one of those who say as if we were the Jews or Gentils he speaks of in another place For what acquaintance should we perswade our people to joyn with you Or how came we to ow you so much Service q Page 221. And yet he hath not writ many leaves before he tells us in plain termes without excepting himself that the N.
the Provinces distant from the City Where though it was performed with less care and solemnity as he tells us yet that did not make the crime less to accompany it For wheresoever the Pomp of the Circus was these are his words though there be but a few Images carried about there is Idolatry in one And though there be but one Chariot drawn it is Jupiter's wane Let the Idolatry be set out sordidly or in a better garb it makes no difference for all is upon the account of the same crime All this considered I take these till I am better informed to be the Pomps renounced in Baptism which Christians were by no means to attend and go along with or as Apuleius i Continuare pompam L. 11 Metamorph p. 242. Edit 1650. speaks to continue the Pomp. For it was to do an honour to false Gods and being present at these they might be in danger to be inticed to downright Idolatry by the bravery and magnificence of the show which was so great that all splendid and stately things whether in speeches or actions have been since called by the name of Pompous I know there was a Pomp at their Triumphs and at great Funerals k See Pricaeus in l. 2. Apuleil Metam p. 120. and other times but these which I have named were the Pomps which Believers promised to forsake And I find it objected to them as a crime by Caecilius a Heathen in the Dialogue of Minutius Faelix who follows Tertullian in his very words that they abstained from honest Pleasures as he called them not enduring to see their Spectaeles nor to be present at their Pomps l Non spectacula viâ— sitis non Pompis interestis p. 15. Edit Heraldi 1613. where Rigaltius notes how antient this form of Renunciation was To which he replies in the end of his Book we abstain from unlawful pleasures your Pomps and Spectacles whose original we both know to have been from your Religion and whose hurtful inticements we condemn m Quorum de Sacris originem novimus c. p. 54. And immediately he instance as if they were the principal entertainments to ensnare them in the madness of the People at the Circensian Sports n For those he understands by Ludicarales These were so inviting that notwithstanding their Renunciation we understand by St. Cyprian who transcribes a great deal of Minutius some Christians not only went to these publike Spectacles but also pleaded for their so doing saying Where do we find them prohibited What place of Scripture speaks against them nay Is not Helias called the Chariots of Israel c and did not David dance before the Ark and do we not read of Psalteries Timbrels and Harps c The Apostle also speaking of our Spiritual Combate borrows examples from the wrestlings and races c. which are at these Spectacles Why may not one of the faithful therefore behold that which those Holy men might write Thus they laboured as you do now in other cases with words and phrases of Scripture to defend their dangerous practice To whom he replies among other things Helias being the Chariot of Israel is no argument that you may go to behold the Circensianraces for he never ran in any Circus o L. de spectac And at last to strike all dead he tells them the Scripture prohibited all these Spectacles when it took away all Idolatry the Mother of all their publike sports p Omnium ludorum Matrem from whence all these Monsters of vanity q That is a word he uses more thâ—n once for these spectacles which is joyned with Pomp in the Baptismal vow and levity came For what spectacle is there without an Idol What show without a Sacrifice what publique combate that is not consecrated to the dead What should a Faithful Christian do among these c. Let him know that they are all the inventions of Damons and not of God And then as he had done before speaking of Helias so he again mentions the Circensian spectacles and tells us they were the eldest of all being consecrated by Romulus himself to Consus the God of Counsel for helping him to take away the Sabinian Virgins He that would more fully understand how apt these Pomps might be to enchant vulgar minds and consequently how necessary it was the sight of them should be prohibited to Christian people may read the rare description which Apuleius in his Milesian Tales r L. XI pag. 243 244 c. hath left us of the great Pomps s Anteludia magnae Pompae wherein the Mother of the Gods was carried together with all the chief Ornaments of the most powerful Deities t Potentissimoâ—um Deorum exuvias and the fine Sights which went before it Nothing was so grateful to the people as this because they could please their Gods they thought and themselves both together The Pomp being so contrived that it was a mixture of Devoâ— on and Mirth and the works of the most stately Religion u Operaâ—â— magnificae Religionis were presented to them among chearful Ceremonies and merry Spectacles x Inter hilares Ceremonias festiva spectacula c. p. 242. N. C. I am sorry these Pomps came in our way for they have diverted us too long from that which we were speaking of viz. Faith in Christ Hath he not made it plain you have abused us in saying we take Faith to be no more than a relying on Christ for the forgiveness of sins p. 67. C. No. He hath neither made that not any thing else plain unless it be his own Ignorance or something worse I have abused no body but the poor people miserably abuse themselves by the means of such men as he who are generally of that perswasion N. C. But they were taught other ways as he tells you by the Assembly who say that Faith in Jesus Christ is a saving grace whereby we receive and rest upon him alone for Salvation as he is offered to us in the Gospel that is as Prephet Priest and King y Sober Answer p. 67. C. I remember the greatest part of these words are in the shorter Catechism but Why did he not tell us so and who gave him Authority to add those words in the conclusion that is as Priest Prophet and King I am sure they are not there N. C. That 's a small matter The Assembly themselves warrant that addition who explain their meaning he tells you by quoting for it Isa 33.22 The Lord is our Judg our Law-giver our King and he will save us C. I cannot tell whether I should stand amazed at the Ignorance or the impudence and falsness of this Writer I cannot call him but Scribler N. C. Why what 's the matter now C. The Assembly quote no such place as that which he mentions but expound their meaning by referring us to another Text in the same Prophet Isa 26.3.4 where
Discipline and form of Common Prayer and Administration of the Sacraments used in the English Church of Geneva received and approved by the Church of Scotland and presented to the High Court of Parliament that year And though in that there are now and then such passages as this the Minister shall use this Confession or the like in effect yet they are not to be found in the ancient Books I have been long Owner of a Form of their Divine Service Printed at Edinburgh Cum Privilegio Regali 1594. and bound up with the psalm-Psalm-book spoken of before and there is no such allowance given in any place of the Book The Confession is enjoyned in these words Ane Confession that sall ga befoir the reading of the Law and befoir every Exercise And if you read the first Book of Discipline presented to the Lords of the Secrct Council of Scotland 20 May. 1560. and by them confirmed f Though never coafirmed by Act of Parliament Mr. Knox complaining that some in chief Authority called the same Devout Imaginations you shall find they make some things utterly necessary and others only profitable for the keeping the Kirk in good Order Among the first sort are these that the Word be truly preached the Sacraments rightly administred Common-Prayers Publickly made These things be so necessary say they that without the same there is no Face of a visible Kirk And that they mean the Form of Prayer agreed upon appears by what follows in the end of that Chapter g All this you may fiad in the ninth head concerning the Policy of the Kirk In Private houses we think expedient that the most grave and discreet persons use the Common Prayers at morn and night for the comfort and instruction of others More particularly when they tren of Discipline h In the seventh head they advise in case any man be excommunicated his Friend should travel with him to bring him to knowledge of himself and Commandment given to all men to call to God for his Conversion And that for this purpose a solemn and special Prayer be draâ—â— for then the thing would be more graâ—â— done They are their very words By all which it is apparent what the constiâ—â—tion of their Church in the beginning was and that later times have swerved from the Decrees of their Fore-fathers So the Doctors and Professors of Aberdeâ—â— i In their Daplia's 1638. pag. 37. and they no mean men neither tel those who came to urge the Coveâ—â—â— on them They who have subscribed to it misregard the Ordinances of our Reformen praefixed to the Psalm-Book concerning the Office of Superintendents or Bishops Funeral Sermons and set Forms of Prayer which they appointed to be publickly read iâ— the Church This was a thing so well known though this Bold-face gives me the lye for supposing it that Ludoviâ— Capellus * Thes Salmur pars 3. p. 658. had reason to write these words At the Reformation the Sacred Liturgie was purged from all Superstitiâ—s and Popish Idolatry c. and so there wert several Forms of holy Liturgie pure and simple made and prescribed all about by the several Authors of the Reformation in Germany France England ☞ SCOTLAND the Netherlands c. Departing as little as possibly they could from the ancient Forms of the Primitive Church which the reformed Charches have used hitherto happily and with profit every one within the limits of their own Nation and Territories Till at last there very lately arose in England certain morose scrupulous and nice and delicate that I say not plainly superstitious persons to whom the Liturgie of their Church hitherto used seemed fit for many though most slight and frivolous causes not only to be disapproved but plainly abrogated Bishop Hall N. C. Enough enough You will be as long and tedious as the Common Prayer C. If that were shorter you would find the greater fault and if I used fewer words he would keep the greater quoile He is not one of those whom a word will suffice He will struggle and keep a stir even when he is overthrown and he must be oppressed with Proofs and Arguments or else he will not cease to quarrel and contend I shall add therefore the words of Bishop Hall k Apology against the Brownists Sect. 37. who justifying a stinted Form of Prayer against the Separatists saith Behold all Churches that were or are in the World are Partners with us in this Crime O Idolatrous Geneva and all French SCOTTISH Danish and Dutch Churches All which both have their Forms with us and approve them The same you may find in a Divine of your own l Mr. Sam. Clark collection of the lives of ten Divines p. 255. who tells us in the Life of Mr. Capel That he was clear in his opinion for the lawfulness of the use of Set Forms of Prayer according to the Tenent of all our best and most judicious Divines and according to the practice of all Churches even the best reformed saith M. Rogers now and in all former Ages So saith Mr. Hildersham Yea and Mr. Smith himself saith upon the Lord's Prayer though as then he was warping and afterwards wandred far in the waies of Separation that it was the practice of the ancient Church and of all the Reformed Churches in Christendom Of the Churches immediately after the Apostles nay saith he of the Church in the time of the Apostles as may be probably gathered out of 1 Cor. 14.26 This hath also been the practice of the best Lights that ever were set up in the Churches of Christ It is very well known that the flower of our own Divines went on in this way when they might have done otherwise if they had pleased in their Prayers before their Sermons To this Testimony which may serve also for other purposes I would cast in more but that you complain of weariness already N. C. I had rather take your word than be troubled with them C. And will you take Mr. Impudence his word against all these Author ties What say you Was there never a time when they used a Form of Prayer in the Church of Scotland Were they alway without nay against a Form when they were left to their own choice Did their Queen force them to Common Prayers when she forbad the use of them What do you think Must we believe all these strong Proofs and solid Testimonies or will he rub his forehead and say like himself believe me before them all In good time Sir Let him play never so many tricks let him frisk about and tumble up and down and endeavour to make you sport that you may forget the Question you came about You will have more wit I hope than to let him deceive you any more Remember Whise the Ape dances on the Rope that 's the time which is taken to cut the Purses of the Spectators But I think he may put all that he hath gain'd
all Churches And then he concludes with a perswasion to all good Christians to lay aside contention and endless and many of them also needless Questions about this matter And seeing it must of all who are well advised be granted that the publique prayers are helps to stir up Gods graces in us and to convey to us the many good blessings of God which we want to look therefore to themselves every way so carefully that they may be fit to be helped and benefitted by them and with the same well ordered hearts and minds to attend unto and apply to themselves the prayers which either before and after Sermon are uttered or the other which through the whole action of Gods worship are read in their hearing and not to be led by opinion that they can take no profit by them N. C. I see very well what kind of writer he is C. And you see he is not for the â—â—oth of the men of these days in which Philag confesses your Ministers dare not perswade the people in this manner much less tell them that all who are well advised are sensible of the benefit that is to be received by the publike prayers read out of a Book This one passage is enough I doubt not to make such Books as these to be rejected as well as their Admonitions N. C. I believe these very good men and meant exceeding well C. But were weak and in a lower dispensation N.C. I dare not say so but I think they would not please now C. No I warrant you especially when they met with a form of prayer which this Author himself hath drawn up at the end of the fourth Treatise y Chap. 20. p. 537. c. Edit 5. 1630. In which among other things he teaches the people to acknowledge the great goodness of God in giving them to live under a most Christian and Religious Prince and King defending and maintaining the Gospel against all Antichristian Malice and tyranny and other adversary powers and the same truly and sincerely preached c. These are words which do not sound well in many of your ears they would be loath to joyn in this acknowledgment For we are told by one that God hath ecclipsed the light of the Sanctuary z T. W. Godlymans picture p. 114 By another that our Aarons too often make golden Calves a Rebuild of London p. 359. And by Philagathus that the Gospel is gone from many congregations in England and else where b Sober Answ p. 284. And that the Goshens that were when the N. C. were in them are grown as dark as the land of Egypt c pag. 285. and were it not for some reasons he tells you he would not have spoken of it but let it alone till the cry thereof so came up to Heaven as to cause the God of Heaven to say as in Gen. 18.11 concerning Sodom I will go down and see if they have done altogether according to the cry of it which is come up unto me c. d p. 286. By which it should seem N. C. No glosses good Sir nor Inferences C. There needs none We may plainly observe what judgments they expect to come upon us because of their removeal We are in Egypt already though the word of God be read every where and must be made like Sodom and Gomorrah I wish heartily that in stead of such acknowledgments as good M. Rogers taught the people to make though many in those times were suspended and deprived they do not now clap petards on heavens gates that they may fly open and send down Fire and brimstone upon us N. C. Are you mad what wild fire hath got into your head Phil. called you a Crack now he will call you a Cracker C. You are not well read I perceive T. W. tells you that Prayer hath a power to destroy the Insolent Enemies of the Church For the two VVitnesses have a flame at their lips Fire proceeds out of their mouth which devours their Enemies Rev. 11.5 and this Fire is certainly to be interpreted of their Prayers c Godly mans picture by Mr. Tho. Watson p. 129. Now that you may better understand their power he tells you that Prayer is a petard which will make Heavens Gate to flye open f Ib. p. 130. N. C. I cry you mercy I did not expect to have found such expressions any where C. Not in Mr. Rogers I warrant you nor any of the Seminaries before named who will never trouble you with such conceited language as this nor tell you that Prayer is a seed sown in Gods ears g Ib. p. 128. N. C. Good now dismiss both him and Mr. Rogers I have had enough of them C. Let me tell you first that this book of his was abridged by Mr. Egorton * Anno. 1618. and put in Quest and Answ who commended it in his Preface to Mr. Hen. Scudders daily Walk and called the practice of Christianity A Book well know and much read when I was a Child and hath an Epistle of Dr. Gouge before it and at the conclusion certain Advertisements concerning Prayer * At the end of the seventh Book chap. 11. pag. 691. Edit 5. 1635. In which he declares that it is lawful and in some Cases expedient to use a set Form of Prayer And there being in respect of place and company three sorts of Prayer Publique in the Church private in the Family and secret by a mans self he concludes that the greatest liberty may be taken in solitary Prayer by a mans self because we are sure provided we be humble and upright that God will not upbraid any man for his Method Order Words or utterance In private Prayer he thinks we may not take so great a Liberty as when alone and justly fears that some well affected people have been somewhat faulty and offensive in this the weaker sort being not so capable of that kind of Prayer which is called conceived or extemporall varying every time in words phrase manner and order though the matter and substance be the same But as for the publique Congregation special care he tells you must be had that nothing be done in praying preaching or administring the Sacraments but what is decent and orderly because there many eyes do see us and many ears hear us and upon this account it is expedient for the most part to keep a constant Form both of matter and words c. This was the Doctrine of the Divines of those dayes though it be not relished now by those who reverence their Name more than their Books Dr. Preston himself another Name which this man vapours withal declared his opinion about the lawfulness of set forms in the first Sermon h Preached before he was Chaplain as Mr. Ball tells us in his Life published by Mr. Clark p. 112. he preached before King James at Royston upon 1 John 16. where he hath these remarkable