this side of the seas amongst vs. If Maister Caluin but especially maister Beza could haue been content to haue contained themselues within the limites either of Geneua or Fraunce to haue intermedled raigned there only and to haue vrged their platforme and deuise no further they might the better for vs in England haue been borne withall But nowe seeing they haue not so done who can be offended that I should make mention of it to the end that if they dealt amisse therein theyr examples and proceedinges might haue the estimation which indeed they deserue I omit how in K. Edwards time certaine malecontents grew vp in the Church of England because sundry matters might not bee ordered as they were at Geneua maister Caluin hauing written sundry letters into England to some suche like effect In Queene Maries time assoone as certaine of our Countreymen were come to Franckforde they were assaulted with the orders of Geneua Quarrels arising about the communion booke and forme of the seruice of England in Kinge Edwardes time there were particulars collected out of it by Knox Whittingham and such as had already tasted of that intoxication and sent to Geneua to bee censured by M. Caluin Who vpon the receit of them returned his answere concerning the sayde Booke compiled confirmed before by such men and such an authorititie as he ought to haue reuerenced In Anglicana Liturgia qualem describitis multas video fuisse tolerabiles ineptias I see that in the English forme of seruice as you describe it there were many tollerable foolleries When Knox and Whittingham had gotten this letter they published it to the Congregation Which being read it so wrought in the heartes of many sayth the discourser of the troubles at Franckford that they were not before so stoute to maintaine all the partes of the Booke of England as afterwardes they were bent against it If you haue Caluins Booke of Epistles I pray you reade it Although Beza thought it meete to be published in print yet shall you finde it to containe no one point of substance in it able to perswade a childe So as thereby you may iudge of their giddinesse who were moued so greatly with it When some of the sayd parties Whittingham diuerse others of a more violent humor came first to Franckford they fel also presently into a very especiall liking of the Geneua discipline as finding it to containe such rules and practices as did greatly concurre with their owne disposions In England poperie was restored and much crueltie vsed whereby they were constrained for the sauing of their liues to leaue their Countrye their liuings and theyr friendes In which case a man may easily gesse how acceptable these pointes were vnto some kinde of humors vz. that if Bishops and Princes refused to admit of the Gospell they might be vsed by their subiects as the Bishop of Geneua was vsed that is deposed and that euerie particular minister with his assistants according to the platforme of that discipline was himselfe a Bishop and had as great authoritie within his owne parish as any Bishop in the world might lawfully challenge euen to the excommunicating of the best aswell the Prince as the Pesaunt And indeede accordingly these positions as afterward it will appere were so pleasing to Whittingham and his consortes as it had beene a very meane forme of discipline I suppose that hauing such principles annexed vnto it wold at that time haue beene refused by them Howbeit many there were and that of the learnedest of those that then departed the Realme as Doct. Cox Doct. Horne M. Iewell with sundrie others who perceauing the trickes of that discipline did vtterly dislike it So as when they came afterwardes to Franckford they wholy insisted vppon the platforme of England and in short time obtayning of the Magistrates the vse thereof they did chose either D. Cox or D. Horne as I gesse or some such other as had beene of especiall account in K. Edwards time to be as it were their Superintendent For the bringing of which matter to passe one maister Clanbourge a chiefe magistrate in that Citie hauing shewed them some especiall fauour complaint was made thereof as it seemeth to M. Caluin Whereupon the sayde M. Clanbourg did write to him as it should appeare that he was induced to yeald to such a choyse the rather because the sayd Superintendent had some such like superior place in England before he came thither Vnto the which point maister Caluin that he might thrust his oare into euerye mans boat to disgrace the sayd platforme of England as much as lay in him and to incourage the factious company at Franckforde that were besotted with his pretended discipline did returne this answere If Beza hath set out his letter truely I would one point had beene omitted which was suggested vnto you I doubt not by that one partie I thinke he meaneth the sayd superintendent For otherwise it would neuer haue come into your cogitation as though he had still kept his whole estate in England to haue established his former ministerie there with you in a perpetuall possession of the authoritie therof Peraduenture there is nothinge that from the beginninge his meaninge is since the Englishemen came thither hath stired vp more contention or at the leaste displeasure so hath kindled strife then this emulation in that the greater part did thinke themselues to be thrust from their equall degree and to bee contumeliously excluded from the common societie if the Church which had receaued intertainment with you meaning the companie that had receiued his forme of discipline before the saide learned men came to Franckford should receaue their lawes from the other parte or side Within some short time after this that the sayd order of the English Church was established as you haue hard at Franckford diuerse of those men who had beene earnest for the Geneuian discipline deuided themselues from that Church as Whittingham Gilby Goodman and others and went to Geneua Where to the great discredit of the estate of the Church of England in Kinge Edwardes time to the greate griefe of such godly men and afterwardes worthy Martirs as remayned here in Queene Maries time in England and to the greate discouragement of sundry weake professors then also in England they reiected the whole forme of our English reformation the booke of common praier our seruice the order of our sacramentes and of all thinges els in effect there prescribed and conformed themselues altogether to the fashions of the Church at Geneua Where they had not beene longe when they had sucked and disgested the whole doctrine before mentioned to be as the appendants necessarily annexed to that forme of newe discipline and which was afterwardes enlarged by Beza as I take it Hotoman others of the disciplinarian humor in their bookes intituled De iure magistratuum c. Vindicia contra tirannos Franco-gallia c. The generall summe
haue not wanted the common affections of men Much trouble there was before their saide deuise was receaued which made them afterwardes the fonder of it We haue a saying that the Crow thinketh her owne birde the fairest and so doe men and women for the most part their owne children Nature doth therein beare sway with the best But especially she sheweth her force most in the fruicts of a mans mind For as our mindes ought to be more deare vnto vs then our bodies so are the fruites of our minds of greater account with vs then the fruites of our bodies Few men that we heare of will giue their liues for their children but many wee see will do it most readily in the maintenance of their opinions Which thinges considered I cannot but in some sorte excuse maister Caluin and maister Beza in seeking all manner of waies all shewes all shiftes all aduauntages that possibly they could either finde or deuise whereby they might iustifie in some sorte the birth and bringing vp of their misconceaued offpring The chiefest ouersight was in my opinion that other learned and wise men doe not well obserue these manner of naturall and common affections in them but were carried after them as it were with a whirlewind to like as they liked to say as they said and to doe as they did If maister Caluin and maister Beza affirmed it why it was inough I haue heard it credibly reported that in a certaine Colledge in Cambridge when it happeneth that in there disputations the authority either of Saint Augustine or of Saint Ambrose or of Saint Ierome or of any other of the ancient Fathers nay the whole consent of them all alltogether is alledged it is reiected with very great disdaâ—ne as what tell you me of Saint Augustine Saint Ambrose or of the rest I regard them not a rush were they not men Whereas at other time when it happeneth that a man of an other humor doth aunswere if it fall out that he beinge pressed with the authority either of Caluin or Beza shall chance to deny it you shall see some beginne to smile in commiseration of such the poore mans simplicity some grow to be angry in regard of such presumption and some will depart away accounting such a kinde of fellowe not worthy the hearing Were not this a pretty and pleasaunt Interlude or Comedy to behold such Parasites playing their partes so Disciplinarian-like And all these follies and dependances that the people haue doted so much after some kinde of Ministers that the inferior sort of those ministers haue taken all for currant coine that hath beene paide them by their superiors and that they the superiors haue beene also so farre ouercaried with the credite of the saide two persons all these follies I say did proceed from this fountaine that neither the people nor their rash seducers did in time put the holy Apostles rule in practise vz. try all thinges and keepe that which is good But it is better late then neuer Since men of all sorts haue entered more carefully into the triall of all the saide pretences together with the very substaunce of that their pretended holy platforme the furious rage of that floud hath beene pretily well diuerted And the very chiefe Captains themselues being vrged of necessity a litle to fall on searching haue found that which I feare they are sorry for and are become as it seemeth like men greatly amased to be at their wits end And now to this purpose I will tell you a wonder If Cartwright and his adherents were to beginne the course againe that they haue runne I am perswaded they would neuer tread so much as one steppe in it But nowe they haue engaged their credits they must shift thinges of aswell as they can and where their wards serue them not beare-of the blowes that shall fall vppon them with their heads and shoulders In the yeare 1572. as you haue heard in the former Chapter the first admonition was offered to the Parliament as containing a perfect platforme of the worthy pretended Discipline to haue beene established within this Realme Within a yeare or two after Cartwright taking in haÌ„d the defence of that platform did alter it in some points especially where it seemed to ascribe too much vnto the people And then if it bee true which is reported that one desiring vppon a time conference with him about these manner of causes he answered what neede you to talke with me you may haue my Bookes they are Est and Amen I doubt not but he would haue sworne vppon conuenient occasion that the admonitioners platforme so qualified by him was a most perfect patterne for all Churches Howbeit within a while after it proued not so For about the yeare 1583. where before the platfourme of Geneua as it was lefte at large in Cartwrigts Bookes had beene followed now there was a particular draught made for England with a newe forme of common Praier therein prescribed The yeare ensuing 1584. the seuen and twentith of her Maiesty out starteth this Booke with great glory at the Parliament time and forthwith the present gouernment of the Church with all the orders lawes and ceremonies thereof was to be cut-off at one blow and this new booke or platforme must needes be established But it preuailed not Shortly after that Parliament the saide booke and platforme was found amongest themselues to haue some thing amisse in it And the correcting of it was referred to Trauerse Which worke by him performed came out againe about the yeare 1586. when there was an other Parliament in the nine and twentieth of her maiesties raigne But it was then as I suppose seuered from the saide book of Common praier and become an entire worke of it selfe And then also at the saide Parliament there wanted not diuerse solicitors for the admittance of it Afterwardes a new conference was had againe about this seconde corrected booke For still there were some things out of square in it In the yeare 1588. at an assembly in Couentry these doubts which were growen were as it seemeth debated and so were many other Cartwright himselfe being present But which of the saide doubts in their platfourme were then resolued I find it not This appeared that some of them remained which they were not able to resolue vpon For although they then concluded that the platforme it selfe was an essentiall forme of Discipline necessary for all times subscribed vnto the practise of the greatest part of it without any further expecting the magistrats pleasure yet in theyr subscriptions they excepted some fewe points which were reserued to be discussed by certaine brethren in an other assembly Where this assembly was kept I canuot certainely affirme But it appeareth vppon deposition that the next yeare after there was one held in Sainct Iohns Colledge in Cambridge Where Cartwright being againe present and many moe besides diuerse imperfections in the saide
raigne aboue his people About the same time Goodman Whittingham Gilby and some others returned from Geneua into England What violēt and seditious doctrine they brought home with them at the least they three that are mentioned I leaue to some other oportunity But for the Geneuian discipline all their desires were in that point insatiable They had seene how Caluin and Beza did raign at Geneua and thought scorne thereuppon to be subiect vnto any It seemed vnto them a notable matter If euery one of them might by and by haue obtained an absolute autority where they should haue beene placed Comming from Geneua they thought they should haue beene admired But finding themselues therein deceaued and that their Geneuian motions were little regarded it wrought in them a very great discontentment and made them so wilfull that nothing would please them which was not practised in Geneua So as thereby great contentions were presently stirred vp by thē Their first assault was made against the Communion Book with the orders ceremonies that are therein prescribed In the which quarrels perceiuing themselues in many respectes as I take it to be ouermatched what was their refuge but forsooth they must complaine to maister Beza Which complaint receaued he writte his Letter in their behalfe vnto Doctor Grindall 1566. then Bishop of London I wish a man would read the Epistles of Leo sometimes Bishop of Rome and conferre them with this of Bezaes to consider whether tooke more vppon him Leo where he might commaund or Beza where there was no reason he should at all haue intermedled But let him goe on He findeth faults with the manner of apparell appointed for our Ministers with the Crosse in Baptisme with kneeling at the holy Communion with all ceremonies that carrie with them any signification and withall the ancient Fathers applying himselfe altogether to strengthen and incourage his factious old acquaintance in their froward and peruerse obstinacie And because his course taken therein should not bee vnknowen with the same minde that he writte this letter now you see hee hath printed it The yeare after 1567. when the sayd malecontents perceiued that notwithstanding Bezaes letter there was no place giuen vnto their giddie fancies but that euery daye they were withstood more and more and that with such sufficient reasons as for mine owne part I thinke that all the Bezaes in Christendome will neuer be able sufficiently to confute they beganne to stagger and knew not what they should do They could finde no directions in the scriptures how they might behaue themselues and therfore they were constrayned to fly againe to Beza Obserue well I pray you what he himselfe writeth hereof Saepe multumque c. Being oft and greatly desired of my deerest beloued Brethren of the Churches of England that in their miserable state Consilium illis aliquod suggereremus in quo acquiescere ipsorum conscientiae possent I would giue them some councell whereupon their consciences might rest diuerse men houlding diuers opinions c. A long time I differred for diuers waighty reasons so to do and I professe that most willingly I would yet haue beene silent but that I thinke I should greatlye offende if I should still reiect their so many petitions and most pitifull mournings Wee in England may thinke wee haue had great iewels of these disturbers and that for all their pretences of great learning and grauitie they were indeed of a very shallow iudgement that could finde nothing to stay their consciences vppon but what should bee sent to them from M. Beza It was a fond part for them to write so vnto him and a very insolent parte for him to take so much vpon him but in that hee hath published so much to the world in print their childishnes his owne pride I may terme it but I want a word to expresse my conceit Hereby it should seeme that if Beza had taken such a course as might well haue beseemed him it lay greatly in his power to haue very much quieted all those present troubles But that minde was farre from him and yet it would haue tended a great deale more to his owne credit For he giueth his sayd deerest beloued Brethren very vnwise vnlearned and vngodly councell although euer since that time according to their promise they haue very grauely builded their consciences vpon it And it was this in effect that if they could not enioy their ministerie without giuing their consents to the manner of making of our Ministers by the Bishops without the voyces of such a Presbiterie as he and his Schollers do dreame of without giuing their consents to the vse of the Cap and Surplise and to the manner of excommunication in the Church of England c. They should then giue place manifestae violentiae to manifest violence and liue as priuate men Let any man that list read ouer that Epistle also and then iudge indifferently by what light aduise this peeuish opposition hath beene continued amongst vs. After some time spent in these brables then they bethought them to fall more directly in hand with the Geneuian Discipline To this purpose certaine persons assembled themselues priuately together in London as I haue beene enformed namely Gilbye Sampson Leuer Field Wilcox and I wot not who besides And then it was agreed-vpon as it seemeth that an admonition which the now L. Archbishop of Canterburie did afterwards confute should be compiled and offred vnto the Parliament approching Anno. 1572. Against which time it was also prouided that Beza should write his letterr to a great man in this Land for and in the behalfe of the chiefe contents therof vz. for the admitting in England of the sayd Allobrogicall Discipline Which office you may be sure he performed very willingly Vnderstanding sayth he of an assembly of the Estate of England wherein there would bee dealing with matters of Religion I could not chose but write vnto you of that matter And so he proceedeth shewing that all men doe allow of our doctrine but not of our Discipline That except where there is pure doctrine there be also pure discipline meaning his own Geneuian Darling the Churches are litle the better and that therefore her Maiestie and her faythfull Councellors should procure the setting vp of this pure Discipline notwithstanding any difficulties whatsoeuer that might hinder it The same yeare also 1572. hee writ to the Queenes Maiestie an Epistle dedicatory before his annotations vpon the new Testament In the which although he doth confesse that her Highnes hath restored to this Lande the true worship of God yet he insinuateth that wee want a full instauration of Ecclesiasticall Discipline that our Temples are not fully repurged that some high places remayne as yet not abolished and wisheth that those wantes and blemishes might be supplyed and reformed meaning as I thinke hee would confesse if he were deposed that her Maiestie should conforme the present Apostolicall and most
But I will come to their first skippe which is in effect from the yeare aboue mentioned 1541. vnto the Apostles time backward For as I remember I haue read it in one of their bookes that in all the auncient fathers you shall finde a little but as it were of the ruines of it But the ruines of it in all the auncient fathers What lucke had they that the building of so gorgeous a peece of worke stoode not in their daies as now it standeth in Geneua that they might haue seene the bewtie and the glory of it If it were so ruinate before the times wherein the ancient fathers liued then surely it will followe in spite of whosoeuer saith nay that it is of greater antiquitie then all the fathers were of But I maruaile howe it grewe into such ruine before their times For to my vnderstanding the Apostles times were next before the time of the auncient fathers The learned discourser will help vs for this plunge out of the bryers The ecclesiasticall offices saith hee namely of Pastors Doctors Gouernours and Deacons were exercised in the primatiue and pure Church vntill the mysterie of iniquities working a way for Antichristes pride and presumption changed Gods ordinance c. And when was that The mistery of iniquitie began to worke in the Apostles dayes Was it then Peraduenture hee meaneth that immediatly after the Apostles times there was some age wherin there liued no ancient fathers and that then this mischiefe was wrought I would it had pleased him to haue deuised such a prouiso in the behalfe of those most notable men manie of them very godly and holy Martirs But the discourser was as it seemeth a plain man he will lay the fault where it was as indeed it is reason that euery man should beare his owne burden Heare him therefore againe Our fathers of olde time were not content with the simple order instituted by Christ and established by his Apostles but for better gouerning of the Church thought good some offices to adde thereunto some to take away some to alter and change and in effect to peruert and ouerthrow all christian and Ecclesiasticall pollicy which was builded vppon the foundation of the Prophetes and Apostles Iesus Christ being the chiefe corner stone A strange conceite that all the auncient fathers should thus conspire to thrust Christ out of his kingdome and to ouerthrowe all Christian pollicy What not a man amongest them as learned and as godly affected as either Caluin Beza or this discourser Not one in those ages that would stand to Christes Discipline A pittifull case But I promise you for my parte I rather doubt of the discoursers credite in this point then that I will thinke there should be such dishonesty in the auncient Fathers Nay I durst certainly sweare it that if there had beene any such gouernment of Christ in their daies they would haue beene as carefull for the continuance of it as any of the purest platformers in Christendome Trauers in his Booke of Ecclesiasticall Discipline maketh eight degres of the declination of this new pretended regiment to haue growne before the Councell of Nice procured as he saith cunningly by Sathan but yet so that as he addeth there are euidences to be shewed of sondry partes of it in the writinges of the auncient Fathers c and that also in this age it is exercised in Fraunce the low Countries and in Scotland All out of square from the Apostles times till Geneua was illuminated Some blinde euidences there may be found he saith for sundry parts of that Discipline whereby a man may conceaue that there was once such a thing in being Wel yet if that were true the auncient Fathers deserue some little commendation in that they were content to leaue some scroules or shiuers of it vnto their posterity To the same purpose also in another place the same party confesseth that the ordinary offices as he tearmeth them in the Apostles times haue beene nowe of many yeares out of vse either in part or altogether afore the last restoring of the Gospell in this age A great leap as I think from the Apostles time to this ourage If I had framed the scope of my second Chapter after this mans pleasure I might as you see haue safely set it downe with Trauerse consent that from the Apostles times till maister Caluin was fully placed in Geneua the now pretended order forme of Ecclesiasticall Discipline was not to haue beene found in all the world Maister Cartwright though he say in his first Booke that the Eldership did most florish in Constantines time and defendeth the same in the secōd part of his 2. reply sauing that he leaueth out the word most with such shifting and falshood as I durst make any learned mā iudge of his dealing therein yet I say in his Table to the first part of his second reply and also in the second part therof he acknowledgeth in effect to my vnderstanding that of the Elderships declining there are to be found in the Fathers but certaine traces and marks whereby we might come to the knowledge of it and vnderstand that certaine Churches as at Alexandria went out of the way As if he should haue sayd looke how a man seeketh for a Hare in the snow and seldome findeth her till he come to her forme so you must seeke for the Eldership as now it is vrged in the auncient Fathers still pricking after it till hauing runne past all them you come to the forme of it in the Apostles times Or as if he had said the best vse that a man can haue eyther of the auncient fathers or of the Ecclesiasticall writers is this concerning the Geneuian Discipline that a man by them may learne when men goe out of their right way but how to get in againe when we are once out if you wil haue any direction for that point you must either goe to Geneua or to him or to some of his fellows There goeth the Hare away for the Fathers cannot helpe you But belieue me such is my dulnes as I doe not wel discerne how these words of Cartwrights will stand well together with those of the Elderships flourishing in Constantines time seeing now in the auncient Fathers we haue so little of it vz. onely as it were some few markes traces or footesteps of a thing which had beene and was gone before their times For as concerning the state of the Church in Constantines time there are whole Cart-loads of most pregnant euidences in the auncient Fathers of it yet but traces as he saith or empty steps in them for his Eldership In effect as if he had saide the Geneua Discipline flourished most when it was not One that hath sent vs a printed Book out of Scotland taking vppon him to know belike the mindes of all the Scottishe Ministers that seeke for the pretended Discipline as concerning the time how
the gouernement that Christ appointed Christ appointed the Iewes Sanedrim to be in euery parish the Iewes Sanedrim was corrupted and therefore we are now sent from Geneua to Moses to vnderstand what he wil say vnto vs of this matter Was there euer any forme of gouernement that hath had so euill fortune A gouernement so long since ordayned not to continue for the time of the law onely but euen vnto the worldes end and neuer to be in such vse as it ought to haue been except it were for some eleuen or some 38. yeares and not that neyther vntill this our age that Geneua hath refined it Miranda canunt sed non credenda poëtae They tell vs wonders But because wee must be carried so farre let vs see indeede the institution of it I trust that point will be made most manifest vnto vs. Therefore I would desire to know where the Lord did institute this their ecclesiasticall Senate The effect of Bezaes aunswere if I haue iudgement to gather it is this Iehosophat appointed such a kinde of Senate in his time Mosis proculdubio praescriptum sequutus following proculdubio without doubt the prescript of Moses And where learned Iehosophat that prescript Had he it out of Moses written bookes or by tradition what must the beginning of this so singular a regiment proceed from a tradition But it may be saide that although it cannot bee shewed in Moses where or when it was instituted yet you shall finde in the tenth of Leutticus the iurisdiction of it plainly set forth which argueth manifestly that there was such a regiment before that time instituted by Moses It is well said Let vs then see the place The wordes are these And the Lord spake to Moses saying thou shalt not drinke wine nor strong drinke thou nor thy sonnes with thee when yee come into the tabernacle of the congregatiō c that ye may put difference betweene the holy and the vnholy and betweene the cleane and the vncleane and that ye may teach the children of Israell all the statutes which the Lord hath commaunded them by the hand of Moses Here saith maister Beza Synedrij ecclesiastici iurisdictio manifestissimis verbis a ciuili distinguitur the iurisdiction of the ecclesiastical Senate is most plainly distinguished from the ciuile And againe Dico his paucis verbis declarari quaecunque tunc erant verè 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 nempe inter sanctum prophanum inter mundum immundum discernere legem domini docere ac proinde iudicare de controuersijs ob eas causas exortis I doe affirme it that in these fewe wordes are set downe what causes soeuer were in those daies rightly accompted spirituall that is to say to discerne betweene the holy and vnholy the cleane and the vncleane and to teach the law of the Lord. Of this exposition in another place We are yet dealing with the pedigree of this gouernment Heereunto therefore this is obiected Let this interpretation go a while as currant yet heere is no mention of any other to exercise this iurisdiction but onely of Aaron and his two sonnes Where are then their gouerning Elders What is become of them How chaunceth it that they are not mentioned To this maister Beza writing of his ecclesiasticall regiment sayth Erant Leuitae in Synagogis penes quos adhibitis vt probabile est aliquibus illustribus ciuibus erat spiritualis administratio There were Leuites in euery Synagogue who hauing ioyned in commission with them certaine chiefe Citizens as it is probable had the administration of all spirituall causes And least you should thinke that maister Beza his probabile est were no good warrant to build so great a matter vppon you shall heare what accompt it carrieth in Geneua There came out from thence not long agone a booke translated since into English and printed in Scotland tearmed so interpreted Propositions and Principles of Diuinitie Amongest the which principles in my latine booke these are three vz It appeareth in Moses booke that as Moses with his 70. did exercise his ciuile iurisdiction so Aaron with his assistants priestes and Leuites had chiefe authoritie in the ecclesiasticall 2. And furthermore there were amongest the Iews certain men whom they called capita patrum the heads of the fathers c. quos verisimile est fuisse etiā Synedrij ecclesiastici partes c. who were parts it is likely of the ecclesiastical Councell 3. Constat ergo in ecclesia Iudaica fuisse huic ordini ecclesiastico cōstitutos rectores It is manifest therfore that in the churches of the Iewes these men were assigned and ioyned to the said Priestes and Leuites to be rulers and gouernors Verisimile est it is likely constat ergo therefore it is manifest As though a man should reason thus It is probable that these men that dare thus abuse the worlde haue made a shipwracke of their consciences therefore it is manifest that they haue done so Vnto how many kinges princes Countries and states hath maister Beza written for the aduauncement of this his pretended gouernement What petitions supplications demonstrations motions admonitions discourses complaints and I know not what haue been published amongest vs in England to the same effect And is all now come to this point probabile est Can Beza himselfe finde no other ground for his Elders Doth it depend but vpon likelihoodes and probabilities by your owne confessions whether almightie God did euer as yet institute any such gouernment or not But to passe by Beza with his probabile est and to come to maister Cartwright another manner of fellow He it seemeth doth account maister Beza to be but a simple man in respect of himselfe in that he deemed the Eldership to be of no longer continuance then since Moyses time This gouernement saith he by the Eldership was taken from the gouernement of the people of God before the Lawe And it beganne as soone as there is any mention made of anye fixed forme of a Church which standing of diuerse housholdes were deuided into particular assemblies Beza is then you see deceaued who said that Moyses did institute the Eldership It was long you heare before his time Did I not tell you we should be brought in effect to Noahs Arke But let vs consider of his proofe that maketh him so peremptory in this point You shall not finde him so loose I trust as to dash vs in the teeth with probabile est Ineuitable demonstrations or nothing from him Forsooth saith he it is thus written in Exodus 4. So Moises and Aaron went and gathered all the Elders of the children of Israell and Aaron tolde all the wordes which the Lord had spoken to Moyses c. And what then Indeede that would be heard for as yet this point runneth harshly But saith Cartwright that these were Ecclesiasticall officers thereby it may appeare for that vnder such a tiraunt and such
were other vsed in like manner which did more terrifie them For saith Caluin Tandem adieci c. At the length I added further that they must build themselues another Cittie and liue therein by themselues except they would bee contayned heere vnder the yoake of Christ hee meaneth theyr Consistorie and that as long as they liued in Geneua they did striue but in vaine not to obey the lawes there Well by what meanes they were drawne vnto their oath I will not stand vpon it but sworne they were and so confessed all Whereupon Omnes in carcerem coniecti They were all cast into prison Amongst the sayd dauncers besides the said Henriche who was depriued of his Ministerie and committed to prison for three dayes there was in that company one of the foure Syndickes or chiefe Magistrates of the Cittie and hee was remooued from his office vntill hee had giuen some testimonie of his repentance which vppon the admonition of the said Consistorie hee presently did as it seemeth and so escaped prison There was also an other in that meeting named Perrin the Captaine of the Cittie as I take it a man with whome Caluin had many quarrels Hee as it seenieth perceiuing by Caluins eagernes what would fall out about that sporte got himselfe to Lyons hoping before his returne Rem tacitè sepultam iri That the matter would bee deade and buryed But sayth Caluin of him after his returne Quicquid agat poenam non effugiet Doe what he can hee shall not escape vnpunished In this Perrins absence his wife Francisca hearing as I suppose that Caluin shold vtter some harde and angry wordes agaynst her husband rayled both against him and the rest of the Consistoriall associates But Caluin aunswered her Vt merebatur as shee deserued And this was the ende of that inquisition Perrin with his wife were committed to prison as the rest of his fellowes had been hee for dauncing and shee I thinke for rayling Whereof Maister Caluin wrote thus to his friend Perrinus cum vxore fremit in carcere Vidua prorsus insanit alij pudore confusi silent Perrin with his wife dooth frette in prison the widdowe Balthasar is quite madde other beeing ashamed doe holde theyr peace Heere was good Consistorian and round dealing It should appeare that Caluin tooke as much vppon him as some Bishoppes or Commissioners in England doe But why shoulde I stande so long vppon this example It maye bee sayde wee must not lyue by examples And it is true Heare therefore for the conclusion of this poynte a Canon of the reformed Churches in Fraunce The faythfull may bee constrayned by the Consistorie to say the truth so farre foorth as it derogateth nothing from the authoritie of the Magistrate Constrayned this may reach farre But the worde of God alloweth them there it should seeme what they lift In my opinion if such maner of proceeding be lawfull at Geneua and in Fraunce it may in some sorte be tolerated in England It is a thing too manifest with what libelling and rayling the forme of our seruice of our ceremonies of our ornamentes of our apparrell c. hath beene depraued and shamefully slaundered As That our Communion booke was culled out of the Popes Portuise this was abused in Poperie that is papisticall it were better to conforme our selues in outward thinges to the Turkes than to the Papistes These and those thinges were deuised by the Pope that Antichristian beast Whatsoeuer commeth from the Pope which is Antichrist commeth first from the deuill If of the egges of a Cockatrice can be made wholsome meate to feede with or of a spyders webbe any cloth to couer withall then maye also the thinges that come from the Pope and the Deuill bee good profitable and necessarie vnto the Church Against these and many such lyke speeches aunswere hath beene made that it is lawfull to trie all things and to holde that which is good That these thinges which are good were not so defiled by theyr beeing in the Popes portuise but that they might bee taken thence and vsed That we must distinguish betwixt the abuse of a thing and the lawfull vse of it That it is no good reason the Papists abused this therefore wee maye not vse it That as good men sometimes deuise that which is euill so euill men may sometimes deuise that which is profitable c. But all these aunsweres and a number more besides to the same effect are misliked denyed and condemned by these our factioners Howbeit vppon occasion the streame is turned and they themselues are driuen to make the verie same aunsweres for the iustifiyng of their owne proceedinges and for the maintenance of certaine particular matters which they doe vrge and allowe of It hath beene layde to their charge that for all theyr goodly pretences of reformation yet indeede the courâ—e they helde did smell most rankly of Anabaptisme Donatisme and of a newe kinde of Papisme As where tâ—ey disquiet the peace of the Churches already reformed rayle vppon our Ministers and theyr calling affirme that our Sacramentes are not sincerely ministred that there is no Church as it should bee but those that they like of that our ceremonies and orders are all vnlawfull that we haue no lawfull Ministers nor Bishoppes that Princes may not deale in causes ecclesiasticall c. These and manye such like poyntes beeing layde to theyr charge Cartwright as though hee had neuer dreamed of any thing to the contrary frameth this generall aunswere in the name of all his fraternitie If amongst the filth of their heresies vz. of Papistes Anabaptistes and Donatistes there may bee found any good thing as it were a grayne of good corne in a great deale of darnell that wee willingly receyue not as theyrs but as the Iewes did the holy Arke from the Philistines whereof they were vniust owners For heerein it is true that is said The sheepe must not laye downe her fell because shee seeth the Wolfe sometyme cloathed with it Yea it maye come to passe that the Synagogue of Sathan maye haue some one thing at some time with more conuenience than the true and Catholicke Church of Christ. Such was the ceremonie of powring water once onelye vppon the childe in Baptisme vsed with vs and in the moste reformed Churches which in some age was vsed by those of the Eunomian heresie Hitherto Cartwright Whose aunswere if it bee true dooth concurre with ours and may stay his owne and his fellowes gyddinesse heereafter Cartwright was purposed once to haue been Doctor of Diuinitie And thereof hee writeth in this sorte I had the aduise of more than a doozen learned Ministers who considering that I had the office of a Doctor in the Vniuersitie were of opinion that for the good they esteemed might bee doone thereby I might swallowe the fonde and idle ceremonies which accompany it To the request of which friendes I yeelded But when his
against him doth traÌ„slate for dioces parish as in this place he doth it with a most brasen forehead The councell of Nice of Antioch of Carthage and of Sardis directly prouing that Bishops only had authority to excommunicate Cartwright giueth no other answere vnto them but this that Maister Caluin saith how Bishops in excommunicating after that manner dealt therein ambitiously Athanasius saith that Dionysius Bishop of Alexandria had the Churches of Pentapolis committed to his care Cartwright saith that care importeth not iurisdiction and so as to the Councell of Nice and of Antioch Cyprian saith the cause of heresies and schismes is this that Priests wil not obey their BB. Cartwright that answereth that is iu effect if his vnpreaching Aldermen will not obay their Pastors Epiphanius speaking of one Peter a Bishop of Alexandria saith this is the custome that the Bishop of Alexandria should haue the Ecclesiastiasticall gouernment of all Egipt Thebais Mariota Libia Ammonica Mariotes Pentapolis Whereupon Cartwright gloseth thus that is besides his own church he procured the good of other churches rouÌ„d about him Again Epiphanius of one Miletus an Archbishop that he was subiect or vnder the said Peter Archbishop of Alexandria Cartwright saith that euery Bishop of name was called an Archbishop And where it is said Miletus was vnder Peter that is vnder him in honour and not subiect vnto him saith Cartwright contrary to the manifest words and meaning of the author Theodoret Bishop of Cyprus saith of himself that he had the gouernment ouer 800. Churches Cartwright saith in effect that he lied that his words coÌ„cerning his care in gouerning those churches being spoken of himselfe want not suspition and that hee was condemned for writing against Cirill neuer mentioning how hee was wrongfully condemned in his absence and afterward restored I omit a number of their other shifts and presumptuous dealings with the fathers As of Epiphanius For him it is knowen of what authority he is c. it were better to laie his words against Aerius vpon some counterfaite and false Epiphanius to spare his credit Likewise of Ambrose Many errors corrupt expositions are found in his works in his exposition vpon the place to the Philippians a child may see how violently he forceth the Text. And also their reiecting of Councels by heaps c. wher they haue no coulor how they may peruert them But yet I may not let this escape my fingars that Cartwright whether for his owne glory or else that God would haue him to be the instrument of his owne shame is well content rather then he will want testimonies to encounter with the authority of Bishops to sort both himselfe all his followers in the number of those that euer since the Apostles times haue repined at that authority thereupon haue beene ouerruled by all the auncient Fâ—thers and Councels as busie bodies Schismaticks You shall heare his wordes and then iudge whether I haue mistaken them To what ende both in the Nicene councell and in many other holden more then two hundred yeares after are there found so manie canons for the acknowledging of the authority of one Metropolitane in euery Province for the honor which he should haue the name he should be called by for the place where hee should sit at their meetings for the bounds of their circuit Doe not all these declare that there were some which were ennemies to that authoritye c. To this I might adde his defence to Aerius and his confutation of Epiphanius not without some discredit to Sainct Augustine Lastlie whatsoeuer is saide or may be said hereafter out of all the auncient Fathers and Histories and out of all the generall Councels concerning the saide gouernment of the Church by Bishops Archbishops and Patriarches of their institution authority title circuites and prerogatiues Cartwright doth take vpon him most boldlie most falsly to prescribe vnto vs certain rules how we must vnderstaÌ„d them or otherwise there is not one of them that will be allowed of I blush in his behalfe I assure you to sette it downe and am ashamed that anie man bearing the name of a Christian shoulde deale so like an Impostor But this it is That it maye appeare saith he what the Fathers and Councelles doe mean when they giue more to the Bishop of anye one churche then to the Elder of the same church and that no man bee deceaued by the name of Gouernour or ruler ouer the rest to fancy any such authority and domination or Lordship as wee see vsed in our church it is to bee vnderstoode that amongest the Pastors Elders and Deacons of euery particular church and in the meetings and companies of the Ministers or Elders of diuerse churches there was one chosen by the voyces suffrages of them al or the most part which did propound the matters that were to be handled whether they were difficulties to be soluted or punishments censures to be decreed vppon those that had faulted or whether there were elections to be made or what other matter so euer occasion was giuen to intreate off the which also gathered the voyces reasons of those which had interest to speake in such causes which also did pronounce according to the number of the voyces which were giuen which was also the mouth of the rest to admonish or to comfort or to rebuke sharply such as were to receaue admonishment consolation or rebuke which in a worde did moderate that whole action which was done for that time they were assembled c. And must we thus vnderstande the Fathers generall Councels Hee might as truely saie that the present forme of our ecclesiasticall gouernment in England vnder her maiestie by Archbishops and Bishops is euen the very same maÌ„ner of church-gouernment that he his followers looke for the right platform of those Elderships which haue so mightely bewitched them Men that once haue passed the limits of modestie may afterwards saie write what they list The ancient Fathers haue deserued farre otherwise of the Church of Christ then that for the maintenaunce of such a forgery as the pretended form of discipline is they shold be vsed after any such manner I would wish all men that are of this proud presumptuous humor to peruse the books which S Augustine hath written against Iulianus the Pelagian There they shall find the very same contemptuous spirit in Iulianus that raigneth in theÌ„selues exalteth it selfe so greatly against the godly learned fathers as also on the other side they shall there see the fruites of Gods spirit vz. in what reuerend account verie high estimation S. Augustine had such worthy holy men by name as here you haue heard very contumeliously disgraced childishly neglected disdaynfully contemned and most proudlie reiected Ita intellexit Ambrosius ita Cyprianus ita Gregorius c. So Ambrose vnderstood such a place of the