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book_n form_n minister_n prayer_n 2,677 5 6.6446 4 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A57860 A rational defence of non-conformity wherein the practice of nonconformists is vindicated from promoting popery, and ruining the church, imputed to them by Dr. Stillingfleet in his Unreasonableness of separation : also his arguments from the principles and way of the reformers, and first dissenters are answered : and the case of the present separation, truly stated, and the blame of it laid where it ought to be : and the way to union among Protestants is pointed at / by Gilbert Rule ... Rule, Gilbert, 1629?-1701. 1689 (1689) Wing R2224; ESTC R7249 256,924 294

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of_o puritan_n p._n 102._o he_o show_v that_o the_o same_o canon_n be_v now_o nine_o year_n after_o ratify_v by_o parliament_n the_o bishop_n begin_v to_o urge_v subscription_n more_o severe_o than_o before_o which_o make_v many_o dissenter_n keep_v their_o private_a meeting_n in_o field_n word_n their_o friend_n house_n etc._n etc._n and_o may_v not_o one_o rational_o think_v that_o the_o jesuit_n may_v in_o their_o own_o way_n prompt_v the_o bishop_n to_o this_o severity_n as_o well_o as_o the_o dissenter_n not_o to_o yield_v to_o it_o sect._n 20._o the_o notion_n that_o jesuit_n have_v of_o spiritual_a prayer_n mention_v p._n 15._o some_o of_o they_o extravagant_a enough_o the_o learned_a dr._n use_v as_o a_o repreach_n to_o the_o nonconformist_n how_o rational_o let_v the_o world_n judge_n see_v we_o never_o vent_v nor_o own_v such_o fancy_n only_o we_o think_v set_a form_n of_o prayer_n unfit_a to_o be_v use_v where_o minister_n be_v tolerable_o gift_v to_o pray_v without_o they_o and_o that_o all_o the_o pray_v that_o we_o read_v of_o to_o have_v be_v either_o practise_v or_o commend_v in_o the_o apostolic_a church_n be_v without_o book_n the_o spirit_n not_o the_o book_n help_v their_o infirmity_n even_o as_o to_o what_o they_o be_v to_o pray_v for_o or_o the_o matter_n of_o prayer_n rom._n 8._o 26._o when_o he_o say_v p._n 16._o that_o it_o be_v not_o improbable_a the_o jesuit_n be_v the_o first_o setter_n up_o of_o this_o way_n in_o england_n ●nd_v that_o it_o be_v never_o know_v here_o or_o in_o any_o other_o reform_a church_n before_o this_o time_n if_o he_o me●n_v prayer_n without_o a_o set-form_n if_o he_o mean_v any_o thing_n else_o it_o be_v not_o to_o the_o purpose_n it_o be_v a_o rash_a and_o untrue_a assertion_n be_v ever_o prayer_n without_o book_n condemn_v by_o any_o reform_v church_n yea_o can_v any_o reform_a church_n be_v instance_a where_o it_o have_v not_o be_v and_o be_v not_o use_v or_o let_v he_o mention_v a_o reform_a church_n that_o 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no_o reproach_n to_o it_o sect._n 21._o he_o cit_v the_o admonition_n give_v in_o to_o the_o parliament_n 14_o eliz._n of_o which_o he_o say_v the_o author_n mr._n f●ller's_n church_n history_n p._n 102_o 103._o make_v mr._n thomas_n cartwright_n author_n both_o of_o the_o first_o and_o second_o admonition_n will_v have_v neither_o papist_n nor_o o●●ers_n e●●strained_v to_o communicate_v i_o do_v not_o understand_v whether_o any_o person_n shall_v be_v constrain_v to_o partake_v of_o the_o lord_n supper_n for_o i_o suppose_v that_o be_v mean_v otherwise_o than_o by_o forcible_a persuasion_n which_o be_v the_o compulsion_n mean_v luk._n 14._o 23._o brugensis_n say_v it_o express_v vi●●●vangelij_fw-la so_o other_o that_o ordinance_n be_v never_o appoint_v by_o the_o lord_n to_o be_v a_o test_n of_o a_o man_n profession_n while_o he_o be_v uncapable_a to_o improve_v it_o to_o high_a end_n but_o if_o the_o admonition_n plead_v for_o tolerate_v of_o popery_n i_o have_v not_o the_o book_n 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cite_v out_o of_o mr._n solden_a be_v to_o the_o same_o purpose_n and_o need_v no_o other_o answer_n sect._n 22._o the_o politic_a hellish_a advice_n give_v by_o the_o jesuit_n contzen_n and_o signior_n ballarini_fw-la make_v nothing_o against_o we_o at_o all_o though_o he_o fill_v p._n 19_o 20_o 21._o with_o they_o for_o all_o that_o can_v be_v thence_o infer_v be_v that_o they_o labour_v to_o divide_v protestant_n and_o this_o d●vision_n fall_v out_o according_a to_o their_o wish_n now_o the_o division_n have_v its_o rise_n from_o the_o imposition_n of_o one_o party_n that_o assume_v the_o name_n of_o the_o church_n and_o the_o scruple_n of_o another_o party_n if_o the_o church_n impose_v that_o which_o be_v lawful_a and_o necessary_a and_o the_o other_o party_n scruple_n that_o and_o so_o divide_v in_o that_o case_n the_o dissenter_n must_v bear_v the_o blame_n of_o the_o division_n and_o be_v guilty_a of_o cooperate_a with_o the_o common_a enemy_n in_o ruine_v the_o protestant_a 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presbyterian_o suspect_v the_o kindness_n and_o join_v with_o the_o conformist_n like_o wise_a man_n and_o refuse_v the_o bait_n who_o say_v so_o or_o on_o what_o ground_n i_o know_v not_o we_o go_v no_o further_o from_o the_o conformist_n than_o conscience_n of_o duty_n have_v make_v we_o do_v before_o but_o it_o have_v be_v a_o strange_a thing_n if_o when_o liberty_n be_v grant_v we_o to_o worship_n god_n in_o his_o own_o way_n we_o have_v then_o join_v with_o a_o superstitious_a worship_n which_o we_o can_v not_o do_v before_o if_o that_o author_n mean_v that_o presbyterian_o be_v then_o willing_a to_o concur_v with_o the_o conformist_n as_o their_o protestant_a brethren_n in_o all_o thing_n lawful_a to_o disappoint_v the_o design_n of_o the_o common_a enemy_n we_o approve_v of_o that_o
have_v answer_v what_o have_v be_v say_v against_o the_o liturgy_n and_o the_o use_n of_o it_o in_o the_o anatomy_n of_o the_o service-book_n interest_n of_o word_n in_o prayer_n smectyminis_fw-la jerubbaal_n necessity_n of_o reformation_n and_o other_o piece_n to_o which_o i_o refer_v the_o reader_n for_o satisfaction_n in_o this_o point_n although_o i_o have_v make_v some_o collection_n on_o this_o subject_n yet_o so_o much_o be_v say_v by_o other_o and_o neither_o the_o doctor_n nor_o any_o other_o be_v please_v to_o answer_v it_o i_o also_o shall_v wave_v this_o controversy_n only_o hint_v a_o few_o of_o the_o chief_a ground_n of_o our_o scruple_n in_o this_o matter_n because_o the_o dr._n p._n 332_o 333._o charge_v his_o answerer_n with_o pretend_v to_o scruple_n without_o give_v reason_n for_o their_o scruple_n sect._n 3_o we_o do_v not_o simple_o nor_o general_o condemn_v form_n of_o prayer_n they_o may_v be_v use_v when_o that_o work_n can_v be_v tolerable_o perform_v without_o 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pectore_fw-la and_o in_o his_o book_n de_fw-fr oratiore_fw-la he_o show_v that_o there_o be_v many_o thing_n to_o be_v ask_v according_a to_o every_o one_o occasion_n the_o lord_n prayer_n be_v lay_v as_o a_o foundation_n where_o the_o true_a use_n of_o the_o lord_n prayer_n note_n that_o by_o the_o way_n be_v hint_v to_o wit_n to_o be_v a_o directory_n not_o a_o form._n socrates_n hist._n eccles._n lib._n 5._o c._n 21._o which_o be_v whole_o spend_v in_o show_v what_o diversity_n of_o usage_n be_v in_o the_o primitive_a time_n in_o divers_a place_n and_o how_o little_a weight_n be_v lay_v on_o uniformity_n the_o great_a argument_n for_o the_o common-prayer_n have_v these_o word_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d that_o be_v general_o and_o every_o where_o in_o all_o religion_n in_o prayer_n there_o be_v not_o two_o to_o be_v find_v that_o agree_v in_o one_o which_o sure_o must_v be_v mean_v of_o agreement_n in_o the_o same_o word_n sect._n 5._o a_o three_o argument_n for_o this_o be_v such_o impose_v do_v thwart_o one_o great_a design_n of_o prayer_n in_o public_a which_o be_v to_o lay_v out_o before_o the_o lord_n all_o the_o several_a case_n of_o the_o people_n or_o the_o church_n their_o sin_n and_o want_n which_o do_v so_o vary_v that_o no_o book_n can_v suit_v they_o all_o i_o be_o sure_o we_o do_v not_o if_o it_o be_v answer_v th●s_v design_n may_v be_v answer_v by_o leave_v a_o liberty_n to_o minister_n sometime_o as_o af●er_v sermon_n 〈◊〉_d use_n their_o gift_n i_o reply_v that_o this_o liberty_n do_v frustrate_v the_o design_n of_o set_a prayer_n which_o be_v to_o prevent_v vent_v of_o error_n and_o indecency_n be_v not_o that_o hazard_n in_o permit_v prayer_n after_o sermon_n as_o well_o
and_o pious_a and_o learned_a sr._n matthew_n hales_n in_o his_o book_n of_o schism_n have_v this_o passage_n in_o time_n of_o manifest_a corruption_n and_o persecution_n where_o religious_a assemble_v be_v dangerous_a private_a meeting_n howsoever_o beside_o public_a order_n be_v not_o only_o lawful_a but_o they_o be_v of_o necessity_n and_o duty_n all_o pious_a assembly_n in_o time_n of_o persecution_n and_o corruption_n however_o practise_v be_v indeed_o or_o rather_o alone_o the_o lawful_a congregation_n and_o public_a assembly_n though_o according_a to_o form_n of_o law_n be_v indeed_o nothing_o but_o riot_n and_o conventicle_n if_o they_o be_v stain_v with_o corruption_n and_o superstition_n s_n 40._o he_o answer_v a_o objection_n pag._n 77._o that_o the_o publish_v of_o this_o book_n be_v now_o unseasonable_a be_v a_o hindrance_n to_o the_o union_n of_o protestant_n to_o which_o there_o seem_v now_o to_o be_v a_o general_a inclination_n he_o allege_v p._n 78._o that_o the_o principle_n of_o nonconformist_n hinder_v that_o union_n and_o lay_v a_o foundation_n for_o perpetual_a division_n he_o know_v that_o we_o will_v not_o own_o this_o and_o therefore_o prove_v it_o as_o he_o think_v on_o the_o principle_n lay_v down_o by_o some_o of_o the_o dissent_v brethren_n let_v the_o constitution_n be_v never_o so_o easy_a to_o themselves_o other_o may_v make_v use_n of_o their_o ground_n and_o carry_v on_o the_o difference_n as_o high_a as_o ever_o i_o wish_v he_o have_v tell_v we_o what_o these_o ground_n be_v but_o it_o be_v a_o odd_a kind_n of_o reason_v we_o will_v not_o endeavour_v union_n with_o they_o who_o may_v be_v tolerate_v because_o they_o who_o be_v not_o to_o be_v tolerate_v will_v expect_v the_o same_o favour_n the_o ground_n on_o which_o we_o plead_v for_o forbearance_n be_v our_o scruple_n about_o what_o you_o confess_v to_o be_v no_o institution_n of_o christ_n nor_o necessary_a duty_n we_o in_o our_o conscience_n judge_v it_o unlawful_a and_o can_v show_v good_a reason_n for_o our_o so_o judge_v how_o this_o ground_n can_v be_v improve_v by_o any_o body_n to_o heighten_v difference_n unless_o it_o be_v by_o the_o peremptoriness_n of_o they_o that_o will_v impose_v such_o thing_n i_o do_v not_o understand_v he_o profess_v to_o be_v for_o union_n that_o will_v lessen_v difference_n and_o not_o weaken_v but_o strengthen_v the_o protestant_a religion_n now_o let_v any_o judge_n whether_o the_o union_n that_o be_v found_v on_o the_o ground_n propose_v be_v not_o such_o sect._n 41._o he_o say_v p._n 97._o that_o universal_a liberty_n differ_v from_o union_n as_o lose_v from_o bind_v and_o it_o be_v strange_a if_o that_o which_o papist_n late_o think_v the_o best_a mean_n to_o bring_v in_o popery_n shall_v now_o be_v look_v on_o as_o the_o most_o effectual_a way_n to_o keep_v it_o out_o ans._n we_o do_v not_o nor_o ever_o do_v plead_v for_o universal_a liberty_n which_o be_v that_o which_o no_o doubt_n papist_n aim_v at_o ergo_fw-la nihil_fw-la dictum_fw-la but_o suppose_v say_v he_o the_o indulgence_n be_v at_o present_a strict_o limit_v to_o dissent_v protestant_n we_o be_v not_o sure_o it_o will_v always_o continue_v so_o will_v not_o the_o same_o reason_n as_o to_z scruple_n of_o conscience_n suffer_v for_o religion_n etc._n etc._n be_v extend_v further_o when_o occasion_n serve_v and_o popery_n get_v foot_v on_o the_o dissenter_n ground_n ans._n be_v it_o not_o as_o rational_a for_o we_o to_o say_v though_o we_o can_v now_o join_v with_o the_o church_n of_o england_n in_o her_o present_a ceremony_n what_o know_v we_o how_o soon_o on_o the_o same_o ground_n she_o may_v bring_v in_o all_o those_o of_o popery_n let_v we_o forbear_v evil_a surmise_v and_o mind_n our_o present_a duty_n especial_o see_v the_o way_n to_o prevent_v this_o fear_v evil_a be_v obvious_a to_o wit_n that_o no_o indulgence_n be_v grant_v after_o but_o what_o there_o be_v as_o good_a reason_n for_o and_o as_o little_a hazard_n from_o as_o be_v at_o present_a neither_o do_v we_o plead_v for_o indulgence_n mere_o on_o the_o ground_n of_o scruple_n of_o conscience_n or_o suffer_v for_o religion_n but_o on_o other_o ground_n in_o conjunction_n with_o these_o as_o have_v be_v a_o little_a above_o express_v it_o be_v like_o our_o ground_n may_v be_v comprehend_v in_o his_o wide-bellied_n etc._n etc._n but_o if_o by_o it_o he_o mean_v all_o ground_n of_o forbearance_n now_o may_v be_v extend_v to_o plead_v for_o a_o undue_a toleration_n than_o all_o forbearance_n of_o christian_n that_o dissent_v in_o any_o thing_n must_v be_v unlawful_a which_o be_v contrary_a to_o the_o scripture_n former_o mention_v and_o to_o the_o general_a sentiment_n of_o all_o christian_n except_o papist_n who_o religion_n stand_v by_o blood_n and_o cruelty_n sect._n 42._o where_o say_v he_o have_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n more_o labourer_n and_o a_o great_a harvest_n than_o under_o the_o great_a liberty_n of_o conscience_n witness_v the_o state_n of_o the_o northern_a kingdom_n compare_v with_o the_o number_n of_o papist_n in_o the_o unite_a netherlands_o i_o can_v soon_o tell_v he_o where_o to_o wit_n under_o episcopal_a persecution_n of_o protestant_n in_o britain_n if_o this_o be_v a_o mistake_n these_o nation_n have_v be_v for_o some_o year_n in_o a_o dream_n again_o his_o instance_n be_v wide_a from_o the_o purpose_n for_o we_o plead_v not_o for_o a_o toleration_n of_o all_o sect_n and_o particular_o not_o of_o papist_n what_o toleration_n be_v in_o the_o netherlands_o themselves_o can_v best_o give_v account_n of_o he_o assert_v it_o impossible_a to_o keep_v out_o popery_n where_o toleration_n be_v allow_v and_o i_o assert_v it_o as_o impossible_a to_o keep_v in_o christianity_n in_o a_o impure_a church_n where_o it_o be_v not_o allow_v and_o yet_o there_o be_v no_o inconsistency_n between_o the_o two_o assertion_n if_o we_o distinguish_v between_o a_o limit_a toleration_n which_o we_o plead_v for_o and_o one_o unlimited_a which_o he_o all_o along_o speak_v of_o to_o talk_v of_o toleration_n thus_o without_o distinction_n be_v to_o walk_v in_o the_o cloud_n and_o not_o descend_v to_o the_o thing_n in_o debate_n which_o be_v unbeseeming_a a_o disputant_n sect._n 43._o he_o bring_v three_o argument_n p._n 79_o 80._o to_o prove_v his_o assertion_n 1._o because_o of_o the_o various_a way_n of_o creep_v in_o under_o several_a disguise_n which_o the_o priest_n and_o jesuit_n have_v and_o can_v never_o be_v prevent_v where_o there_o be_v a_o general_a indulgence_n for_o dissenter_n and_o a_o unaccountable_a church-power_n be_v allow_v to_o separate_v congregation_n ans._n 1._o this_o argument_n supponit_fw-la falsum_fw-la which_o we_o have_v often_o disclaim_v to_o wit_n that_o we_o plead_v for_o a_o general_a indulgence_n to_o dissenter_n we_o desire_v it_o may_v be_v limit_v to_o man_n of_o peaceable_a principle_n and_o practice_n to_o such_o as_o differ_v from_o the_o public_a way_n in_o matter_n not_o fundamental_a nor_o near_a to_o the_o foundation_n and_o for_o our_o part_n who_o be_v presbyterian_o we_o seek_v forbearance_n only_o in_o thing_n that_o be_v acknowledge_v to_o be_v none_o of_o christ_n institution_n and_o in_o thing_n that_o be_v neither_o against_o godliness_n nor_o the_o peace_n of_o church_n or_o state._n another_o falsehood_n that_o he_o suppose_v be_v that_o we_o plead_v for_o a_o unaccountable_a church-power_n in_o separate_a meeting_n we_o plead_v for_o no_o power_n in_o they_o but_o what_o a_o good_a account_n can_v be_v give_v of_o from_o scripture_n and_o what_o be_v allow_v common_o to_o a_o church_n as_o such_o 2._o i_o mention_v before_o a_o way_n of_o prevent_v the_o creep_a in_o of_o priest_n and_o jesuit_n for_o all_o their_o cunning_a to_o wit_n the_o due_a exercise_n of_o church-discipline_n in_o all_o the_o way_n that_o shall_v be_v tolerate_v especial_o in_o the_o admission_n of_o minister_n to_o their_o office_n and_o if_o these_o fox_n creep_v in_o at_o undiscerned_a cranny_n if_o discipline_n be_v in_o vigour_n they_o may_v be_v cast_v out_o again_o before_o they_o can_v do_v any_o considerable_a harm_n to_o the_o flock_n sect._n 44._o argument_n 2._o because_o it_o will_v be_v great_a hardship_n when_o man_n heat_n be_v over_o for_o they_o the_o papist_n only_a to_o be_v deprive_v of_o the_o liberty_n of_o their_o conscience_n when_o the_o wild_a of_o fanatic_n be_v allow_v it_o answ._n 1._o still_o the_o old_a supposition_n must_v found_v all_o his_o argument_n we_o plead_v for_o no_o toleration_n to_o any_o fanatic_n proper_o so_o call_v much_o less_o to_o the_o wild_a of_o they_o 2._o there_o be_v many_o weighty_a reason_n why_o papist_n shall_v be_v deny_v that_o liberty_n that_o be_v allow_v to_o protestant_a dissenter_n from_o the_o grossness_n of_o their_o heresy_n the_o idolatry_n of_o their_o worship_n the_o unpeaceableness_n of_o their_o principle_n such_o
bring_v papist_n to_o the_o church_n though_o it_o prove_v after_o a_o while_n rather_o a_o mean_a of_o carry_v protestant_n to_o the_o mass._n and_o king_n edward_n 6_o with_o the_o council_n do_v affirm_v as_o much_o in_o a_o letter_n to_o the_o rebel_n in_o the_o west_n who_o have_v rise_v in_o defence_n of_o popery_n say_v that_o the_o service_n that_o now_o they_o have_v in_o english_a be_v almost_o the_o same_o that_o before_o they_o have_v in_o latin._n and_o any_o that_o read_v the_o bible_n and_o the_o mass_n and_o this_o service_n may_v easy_o see_v that_o there_o be_v a_o far_o great_a simitude_n between_o it_o and_o the_o mass_n than_o between_o it_o and_o all_o the_o worship_n of_o god_n that_o the_o scripture_n give_v account_n of_o to_o have_v be_v practise_v in_o the_o apostolic_a church_n 2._o this_o may_v appear_v if_o we_o consider_v the_o original_a of_o this_o service_n it_o be_v take_v out_o of_o several_a popish_a book_n the_o prayer_n out_o of_o the_o breviary_n the_o sacrament_n burial_n matrimony_n visitation_n of_o the_o sick_a out_o of_o the_o ritual_a adminstration_n of_o the_o lord_n supper_n out_o of_o the_o mass-book_n and_o consecration_n of_o bishop_n out_o of_o the_o pontifical_a as_o any_o may_v see_v who_o will_v be_v at_o the_o pain_n to_o compare_v the_o book_n mention_v together_o sect._n 12._o i_o know_v it_o will_v be_v say_v that_o they_o retain_v only_o those_o part_n of_o those_o book_n that_o be_v compose_v by_o the_o orthodox_n father_n of_o the_o church_n and_o use_v in_o the_o primitive_a time_n but_o this_o be_v no_o sufficient_a defence_n for_o 1._o suppose_v that_o frame_n of_o worship_n have_v so_o good_a a_o original_a yet_o be_v now_o of_o late_a so_o gross_o abuse_v to_o idolatry_n and_o be_v so_o like_a to_o the_o idolatrous_a worship_n of_o the_o papist_n rather_o than_o like_o apostolic_a worship_n and_o we_o have_v depart_v from_o that_o church_n on_o good_a ground_n why_o shall_v we_o choose_v their_o way_n of_o worship_n and_o in_o so_o do_v both_o differ_v from_o the_o primitive_a time_n especial_o the_o apostle_n time_n and_o from_o all_o other_o reform_a church_n 2._o it_o be_v false_a that_o this_o frame_n of_o service_n be_v compose_v by_o the_o father_n it_o be_v indeed_o say_v by_o some_o that_o jerom_n compose_v some_o prayer_n for_o the_o use_n o●_n weak_a christian_n but_o that_o he_o or_o any_o other_o such_o do_v compose_v this_o frame_n or_o any_o thing_n like_o it_o be_v deny_v and_o i_o have_v prove_v that_o there_o be_v no_o such_o thing_n in_o these_o time_n the_o prayer_n be_v make_v by_o gregory_n the_o great_a anno_fw-la 600._o or_o thereabouts_o other_o part_n be_v add_v by_o other_o pope_n the_o respond_v come_v not_o in_o till_o many_o year_n after_o what_o be_v common_o talk_v of_o the_o liturgy_n of_o the_o apostle_n or_o evangelist_n james_n peter_n matthew_n mark_n be_v now_o so_o explode_v as_o learned_a man_n among_o our_o brethren_n do_v not_o plead_v for_o they_o this_o shall_v suffice_v concern_v the_o liturgy_n about_o which_o more_o may_v have_v be_v say_v but_o i_o have_v say_v more_o than_o at_o first_o i_o intend_v sect_n viii_o the_o other_o term_n of_o communion_n that_o they_o impose_v consider_v i_o proceed_v now_o to_o attend_v the_o learned_a dr_n discourse_n about_o these_o other_o term_n of_o communion_n that_o his_o church_n impose_v and_o we_o scruple_n and_o first_o i_o take_v notice_n that_o he_o charge_v his_o answerer_n with_o remain_v in_o general_n and_o pretend_v that_o they_o judge_v they_o esteem_v the_o term_n of_o communion_n unlawful_a but_o bring_v no_o particular_a argument_n to_o prove_v the_o unlawfulness_n of_o they_o he_o say_v protestant_n do_v not_o do_v so_o when_o they_o charge_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n with_o unlawful_a term_n of_o communion_n the_o answer_n to_o this_o be_v easy_a 1._o they_o be_v charge_v with_o separation_n and_o in_o answer_v the_o dr_n sermon_n act_v the_o part_n of_o defendant_n it_o be_v enough_o for_o that_o de●ence_n to_o plead_v that_o they_o do_v not_o separate_a without_o good_a ground_n and_o to_o show_v that_o they_o scruple_v such_o and_o such_o term_n of_o communion_n impose_v on_o they_o by_o the_o church_n it_o be_v not_o needful_a in_o this_o debate_n to_o resume_v all_o the_o controversy_n about_o the_o liturgy_n and_o ceremony_n 2._o our_o party_n have_v give_v abundant_a proof_n of_o the_o reasonableness_n of_o their_o scruple_v at_o these_o thing_n the_o book_n above_o mention_v against_o the_o liturgy_n and_o against_o the_o ceremony_n didoclavius_n the_o author_n of_o the_o book_n call_v the_o english_a popish_a ceremony_n mr._n jean_n treasure_n out_o of_o rubbish_n a_o treatise_n of_o divine_a worship_n english_a puritanism_n twelve_o argument_n against_o ceremony_n smectymn_n g._n f._n question_n betwixt_o conformist_n and_o nonconformist_n and_o many_o other_o piece_n there_o be_v so_o much_o say_v in_o these_o and_o yet_o unanswered_a that_o it_o be_v needless_a to_o repeat_v what_o be_v there_o say_v i_o must_v be_v guilty_a of_o the_o same_o fault_n if_o it_o be_v one_o have_v at_o length_n dispute_v against_o the_o ceremony_n and_o prove_v they_o to_o be_v unlawful_a to_o be_v use_v in_o a_o piece_n entitle_v a_o vindication_n of_o the_o purity_n of_o gospel_n worship_n against_o mr._n geo●ge_n ritchel_n and_o other_o i_o may_v without_o blame_n refer_v the_o reader_n thither_o and_o not_o repeat_v what_o be_v there_o write_v provide_v i_o leave_v nothing_o unanswered_a that_o the_o dr._n have_v here_o say_v on_o that_o subject_a 3._o our_o party_n do_v not_o stand_v on_o equal_a ground_n with_o the_o dr._n and_o his_o party_n neither_o have_v we_o the_o liberty_n of_o the_o press_n as_o they_o have_v nor_o that_o immunity_n to_o speak_v out_o our_o argument_n but_o we_o be_v ready_a to_o be_v conclude_v by_o a_o prison_n instead_o of_o argument_n but_o let_v not_o the_o dr._n think_v our_o cause_n be_v lay_v low_a because_o our_o person_n and_o worldly_a interest_n be_v so_o sect._n 2._o he_o resume_v a_o argument_n out_o of_o his_o sermon_n against_o our_o separate_n that_o there_o ought_v to_o be_v no_o separation_n where_o there_o be_v agreement_n in_o doctrine_n and_o substantial_a part_n of_o worship_n and_o that_o this_o agreement_n be_v acknowledge_v in_o our_o case_n he_o say_v mr._n a._n deny_v such_o agreement_n both_o in_o doctrine_n of_o this_o i_o have_v give_v my_o judgement_n above_o part_v 2._o s._n 1._o section_n 2._o also_o in_o substantial_a part_n of_o worship_n and_o allege_v the_o cross_n in_o baptism_n to_o be_v a_o substantial_a part_n of_o worship_n hence_o the_o dr._n undertake_v p._n 335._o 1._o to_o show_v what_o he_o mean_v by_o substantial_a part_n of_o worship_n 2._o that_o the_o cross_n be_v not_o make_v such_o the_o dr._n seem_v to_o lay_v some_o weight_n on_o this_o distinction_n of_o part_n of_o worship_n to_o wit_n substantial_a and_o circumstantial_a or_o accidental_a and_o allege_v that_o many_o of_o we_o be_v mislead_v by_o not_o consider_v it_o i_o much_o desire_v the_o clear_n of_o it_o and_o therefore_o resolve_v careful_o to_o observe_v what_o he_o say_v and_o shall_v be_v ready_a to_o receive_v light._n he_o say_v that_o the_o nonconformist_n great_a principle_n be_v that_o what_o ever_o be_v any_o way_n intend_v or_o design_v for_o the_o worship_n of_o god_n be_v a_o real_a and_o substantial_a part_n of_o his_o worship_n and_o when_o their_o adversary_n tell_v they_o that_o divine_a institution_n be_v needful_a to_o make_v a_o part_n of_o worship_n they_o say_v that_o make_v true_a worship_n but_o without_o it_o a_o act_n may_v be_v worship_n that_o be_v false_a worship_n and_o yet_o they_o allow_v the_o application_n of_o common_a circumstance_n to_o act_n of_o worship_n this_o subject_a i_o have_v discourse_v at_o large_a in_o the_o book_n above_o cite_v cap._n 3._o sect_n 1_o 3_o 4._o but_o shall_v now_o a_o little_a consider_v what_o representation_n the_o dr._n be_v please_v to_o make_v of_o our_o principle_n 1._o i_o know_v no_o nonconformist_n that_o ever_o assert_v that_o all_o that_o be_v intend_v or_o design_v for_o worship_n be_v worship_n either_o real_a or_o substantial_a for_o they_o well_o know_v that_o the_o meeting-place_n the_o minister_n maintenance_n the_o pulpit_n communion-table_n etc._n etc._n be_v design_v for_o worship_n and_o yet_o be_v no_o worship_n real_a nor_o imaginary_a substantial_a nor_o accidental_a true_a nor_o false_a if_o he_o mean_v by_o be_v design_v for_o worship_n that_o the_o person_n do_v such_o a_o act_n intend_v to_o worship_n god_n by_o so_o do_v which_o i_o can_v take_v to_o be_v his_o meaning_n i_o hope_v himself_o will_v acknowledge_v that_o though_o such_o a_o design_n be_v needful_a to_o make_v a_o act_n
less_o impose_v all_o the_o question_n be_v about_o the_o use_n of_o sponsor_n in_o the_o baptism_n of_o infant_n for_o the_o adult_n be_v to_o undertake_v for_o themselves_o some_o make_v the_o use_n of_o godfather_n to_o be_v witness_n of_o the_o childs-baptism_n that_o be_v very_o needless_a for_o the_o whole_a church_n be_v witness_n of_o that_o the_o true_a use_n of_o they_o be_v to_o represent_v the_o child_n as_o a_o party_n covenant_v with_o god_n in_o this_o solemn_a seal_v of_o the_o covenant_n of_o grace_n between_o god_n and_o the_o infant_n and_o consequential_a to_o this_o to_o undertake_v the_o instruction_n and_o education_n of_o the_o child_n in_o the_o christian_a religion_n and_o endeavour_v to_o engage_v he_o to_o a_o personal_a own_n of_o the_o covenant_n the_o original_n of_o other_o sponsor_n beside_o the_o parent_n be_v in_o the_o primitive_a church_n many_o young_a one_o either_o bear_v of_o heathen-parent_n or_o orphan_n of_o christian-parent_n fall_v into_o the_o tuition_n of_o heathen-relation_n in_o reference_n to_o their_o worldly_a concern_v be_v in_o hazard_n by_o that_o mean_n to_o be_v breed_v in_o heathenism_n wherefore_o it_o be_v judge_v needful_a that_o some_o faithful_a and_o intelligent_a christian_n shall_v undertake_v for_o their_o religious_a education_n this_o usage_n which_o reason_n have_v first_o bring_v in_o ostentation_n do_v afterward_o enlarge_v by_o multiply_a godfather_n and_o godmother_n and_o after_o that_o superstition_n do_v pervert_v it_o by_o exclude_v the_o parent_n and_o put_v stranger_n in_o their_o room_n till_o at_o last_o in_o popery_n it_o be_v quite_o deprave_v by_o make_v a_o spiritual_a kindred_n to_o result_v from_o this_o action_n wherefore_o we_o do_v not_o deny_v the_o use_n of_o sponsor_n but_o think_v the_o parent_n the_o most_o proper_a sponsor_n both_o on_o account_n of_o their_o opportunity_n obligation_n and_o natural_a inclination_n to_o do_v the_o office_n of_o a_o sponsor_n for_o the_o child_n which_o may_v rational_o be_v think_v to_o be_v more_o in_o they_o than_o in_o a_o stranger_n and_o we_o think_v it_o a_o gross_a abuse_n to_o admit_v of_o other_o sponsor_n except_o in_o the_o want_n of_o parent_n or_o their_o inhability_n i_o think_v also_o consider_v thing_n as_o they_o be_v not_o bare_o in_o the_o notion_n that_o man_n have_v of_o thing_n that_o they_o will_v defend_v this_o practice_n be_v fall_v into_o such_o abuse_n that_o even_o that_o shall_v make_v it_o be_v lay_v aside_o for_o it_o be_v manifest_a and_o most_o common_a that_o godfather_n and_o godmother_n be_v choose_v most_o unqualify_v for_o and_o most_o unconcerned_a in_o that_o which_o they_o make_v a_o solemn_a promise_n to_o god_n to_o perform_v which_o be_v a_o horrid_a mock_n of_o he_o and_o his_o ordinance_n be_v not_o boy_n and_o girl_n choose_v or_o debauch_v and_o ignorant_a person_n or_o stranger_n that_o may_v be_v shall_v never_o see_v the_o child_n again_o nor_o mind_n it_o except_o it_o be_v to_o send_v it_o a_o new_a coat_n sect._n 9_o the_o dr._n tell_v we_o of_o mr._n cartwright_n yea_o and_o all_o protestant_a church_n approve_v of_o this_o but_o will_v he_o say_v that_o they_o be_v for_o exclude_v the_o parent_n which_o be_v the_o very_a thing_n that_o we_o controvert_v for_o as_o the_o dr._n confess_v can._n 29._o ordain_v that_o parent_n need_v not_o be_v present_a and_o that_o they_o shall_v not_o be_v admit_v to_o answer_v that_o be_v they_o must_v not_o undertake_v for_o the_o instruction_n and_o education_n of_o their_o own_o child_n but_o say_v he_o the_o parent_n be_v to_o provide_v such_o as_o be_v fit._n i_o desire_v to_o know_v what_o warrant_n be_v for_o this_o even_o from_o sound_a reason_n who_o can_v be_v so_o fit_a by_o his_o opportunity_n and_o care_n as_o the_o parent_n and_o if_o he_o be_v whole_o unfit_a as_o to_o understanding_n and_o respect_n to_o true_a religion_n we_o be_v not_o against_o his_o have_v a_o deputy_n in_o that_o case_n that_o it_o be_v do_v with_o the_o parent_n consent_n be_v better_a so_o than_o otherwise_o but_o that_o the_o parent_n can_v transfer_v his_o right_n to_o another_o be_v without_o all_o reason_n unless_o the_o person_n to_o who_o such_o a_o translation_n be_v make_v do_v real_o take_v the_o education_n of_o the_o child_n which_o though_o by_o a_o private_a compact_n between_o the_o parent_n and_o sponsor_n may_v be_v do_v yet_o what_o shadow_n of_o reason_n can_v be_v for_o a_o canon_n compel_v every_o parent_n to_o do_v it_o it_o be_v say_v he_o but_o like_o a_o occasion_n of_o absence_n to_o wit_n of_o the_o parent_n in_o which_o case_n all_o allow_v of_o a_o sponsor_n ans._n it_o be_v no_o way_n like_o it_o for_o the_o one_o have_v necessity_n to_o warrant_v it_o the_o other_o have_v nothing_o but_o man_n will_n or_o superstitious_a conceit_n be_v it_o alike_o for_o the_o state_n to_o make_v a_o law_n that_o neighbour_n shall_v feed_v and_o clothe_v the_o orphan_n of_o poor_a parent_n and_o to_o make_v a_o law_n that_o they_o shall_v feed_v and_o clothe_v the_o child_n of_o their_o rich_a neighbour_n who_o be_v alive_a the_o case_n be_v just_a so_o here_o it_o be_v a_o injury_n to_o a_o man_n to_o have_v his_o child_n take_v from_o he_o without_o a_o cause_n and_o give_v to_o another_o to_o be_v educate_v so_o it_o be_v to_o be_v oblige_v yea_o force_v to_o transfer_v upon_o another_o all_o that_o right_o he_o have_v to_o represent_v his_o own_o child_n and_o to_o engage_v for_o his_o education_n he_o say_v it_o be_v not_o the_o church_n intention_n to_o supersede_n the_o obligation_n of_o the_o parent_n but_o to_o superinduce_v a_o further_a obligation_n upon_o other_o person_n have_v the_o parent_n be_v permit_v to_o undertake_v for_o the_o child_n joint_o with_o the_o sponsor_n there_o have_v be_v some_o colour_n for_o this_o assertion_n but_o that_o be_v express_o deny_v by_o the_o canon_n it_o be_v evident_a that_o the_o church_n do_v what_o she_o can_v to_o make_v the_o parent_n think_v that_o no_o obligation_n at_o all_o lie_v on_o he_o i_o meddle_v not_o with_o his_o debate_n against_o mr._n b._n about_o mr._n b_n argument_n against_o sponsor_n from_o the_o child_n have_v right_a to_o baptism_n only_o from_o the_o parent_n many_o learned_a man_n differ_v from_o mr._n b._n in_o that_o and_o i_o shall_v not_o digress_v to_o dispute_v it_o sect._n 10._o the_o dr._n pag._n 386._o say_v he_o find_v nothing_o particular_o object_v against_o kneel_v at_o the_o communion_n that_o deserve_v consideration_n which_o he_o have_v not_o answer_v in_o another_o place_n to_o wit_n conference_n first_o part_n which_o book_n i_o have_v not_o see_v wherefore_o i_o shall_v in_o a_o few_o word_n lay_v down_o our_o ground_n of_o scruple_v that_o practice_n and_o so_o leave_v it_o we_o do_v not_o scruple_n kneel_v at_o prayer_n which_o be_v join_v with_o receive_v of_o that_o sacrament_n nor_o do_v we_o deny_v that_o all_o possible_a reverence_n shall_v be_v use_v in_o go_v about_o that_o holy_a ordinance_n but_o we_o think_v the_o expression_n of_o that_o reverence_n shall_v be_v of_o god_n appoint_v in_o his_o word_n or_o ground_v on_o nature_n or_o civil_a custom_n and_o not_o institute_v by_o man_n will._n 1._o then_o we_o scruple_n it_o because_o it_o be_v a_o uncommanded_a act_n of_o worship_n that_o it_o be_v worship_n i_o think_v will_v not_o be_v deny_v kneel_v in_o prayer_n can_v be_v deny_v to_o be_v a_o act_n of_o external_a worship_n no_o more_o than_o this_o that_o it_o be_v uncommand_v we_o must_v believe_v till_o they_o show_v we_o a_o command_n for_o it_o they_o allege_v that_o kneel_v be_v unquestionable_a a_o fit_a gesture_n to_o express_v humility_n and_o adoration_n it_o can_v be_v unfit_a but_o needful_a in_o this_o case_n where_o both_o be_v require_v to_o this_o i_o reply_v humility_n be_v not_o fit_o express_v by_o kneel_v though_o adoration_n be_v and_o therefore_o we_o think_v kneel_v in_o the_o act_n of_o receive_v to_o be_v no_o fit_a gesture_n because_o adore_v however_o needful_a it_o be_v in_o the_o complex_fw-la action_n of_o communicate_v to_o wit_n before_o and_o after_o receive_v the_o element_n it_o be_v not_o the_o soul_n work_v in_o that_o act_n believe_v or_o covenant_v with_o god_n be_v the_o proper_a exercise_n of_o the_o soul_n in_o that_o act_n which_o be_v a_o solemn_a seal_n of_o the_o covenant_n and_o this_o covenant_v be_v very_o unfit_o express_v by_o kneel_v he_o that_o be_v about_o solemn_a prayer_n or_o adoration_n which_o may_v be_v well_o express_v by_o kneel_v in_o the_o act_n of_o receive_v that_o sacrament_n do_v little_o know_v or_o consider_v the_o nature_n and_o use_n of_o it_o whence_o i_o form_n our_o argument_n thus_o that_o religious_a gesture_n which_o be_v neither_o