which Gregory the great lived whom he would make the Father of them Therefore Sirs you are not to believe any thing this Author saith on this Argument That is the 3d and main use And it is speaking enough at random to fix their Original now at 600 after at 800 then at a 10000 years after Christ for the Author contradicts himself and cannot tell whether it was at 6 or 800 or 1000 years after Christ that is the English of this and inforceth the last branch of Application I shall repeat our Vindicators words no further let him please himself and such Readers as such trifles will please with his Rabbinical Tradition about Phinehas and his fancy to reconcile my words to truth that Gregory might live 400 years and then have need of Charles the great to govern him in his dottage I shall reconcile what I said to truth and sense at a more intelligible rate 11. What a Magnus conatus here is Nugas agere 1. In the first place every Scholar knows that in matters of Chronology it is our Custom to consult some Chronologer or other Pro re nata and that it is no piece of Learning to carry in Memory the Years of Mens Births or Deaths Reason being not at all concerned in the case but when we have occasion to take notice of any such thing we use to look into them and Dr. Cave's Tables are continually in mine eye while I am in my Study and Helvicus within a reach the one of which presently telleth me Gregory the greats time and the other Charles the greats so as the Vindicator hath not shewn much of his own Judgment or Ingenuity in making one so mightily defective in learning meerly for mistaking the time of a Pope or Emperors Reign and as confident as himself is that Gregory dyed 604 I am sure Platina saith he entred his Popedom 610 which according to our Vindicator who is so severe a Critick in Chronology was six years after he was dead which would make a better Argument than any of the Papists have to prove Gregory a most Holy Father having spent six years in Heaven and received a better Canonization than the Church of Rome could give him and then came down not without Gods leave sure to be his Sons Vicar and to rule his Church on Earth Now who so considers that Platina was a later Popes Secretary and so had doubtless the command of their Archives and Abbreviator Apostolicus so as it was his business to search into the things of that Church may reasonably think he much better knew than our Vindicator could his Chronology yea or than any other Monk or more ordinary Religioso and to correct Platina by any of them is much like setting the Sun by ones Watch. Qui alterum incusat probri ipsum se intueri oportet If any one object that my self says Gregory was not Pope till about 600 as I believe I have said more than once in this Discourse or that he lived Anno 600 every one will understand me as expressing Numerum Rotundum the number of the age only not the particular year and that my meaning was at the close of the 6th or beginning of the 7th Age but if one will pretend to the very year of his death and say he died 604 he is tied to more exactness for fear a Resurrection be proved upon the Assertor admitting his Assertion 12. But this being premised let us more strictly inquire Whether there was such a mistake or no In very deed there was none ' and all this noise is caused from our Vindicators applying that to persons which I never intended but of the practice and usage for what else could I understand by the Father of all these that dwell in these Tents but the Father of those who have introduced into the Church the general use and imposition of Forms of Prayers to be used by all Ministers in their Publick Solemn Prayers I said and I say it again That Gregory the Great was the Father of these men he first made a Canon in the case I mean a Rule or Decree I think Durandus or Platina use the term Redegit in Canonem This Canon was charged but with Powder and did no great execution till Charles the Great near 200 years after that added a Bullet to Gregorys Powder this did great Execution for he enforced all men with Fire and Sword and this I think was a great protection of Gregory the Greats Canonical Sanction Charles his Empire was large and we must imagine that a year or two or twenty would not perfect so great an alteration no not in the Roman Empire which was not all the Christian World so as I do think that it is no large conjecture to guess it might be 1000 years before this practice got any general usage This Cubb was whelped by Gregory the Great but all his Authority and Canons c. could not lick it into a just form till Charles the Great put his Mouth to it and his Hand and Sword also which must be in the Ninth Century and cannot well be imagined to have been perfected in a small time I believe when I come to our Vindicators p 156 157. I shall find if not a designed Cheat a grosser Error in Chronology than this amounts to for this indeed is none The Vindicator might have seen in the Book to which I referred in that Paragraph that I did know or might have read there and I will assure him I read it once or twice what time Gregory the Great lived and at what distance from Charles the Great And the World may see by a Supplement to the Reasonable Account which came out the very same week with this Vindication of Liturgies and is wholly about the pretended Antiquity of Liturgies that I was not ignorant of this abstruse and mighty piece of Learning and needed not his Instruction in it 13. Our Vindicator in the next place Introd p. 5. declareth against his meddling with any part of the Reasonable Account wherein I answered others which I am well content with and shall likewise desire my Reader not to expect I should strictly follow him in his large Digressions wherein he speaketh nothing to my Arguments But he further tells us That he shall wave the Repetition of my long Syllogisms which is a tedious way of proceeding and in rational discourses of this nature is acceptable to few others than those who may admire the Art of making a Syllogism but I shall give a faithful account of the substance of his Arguments c. 14. I must confess I never thought it much material whether a Syllogism were in Cesare or Darapte or Jerison nor thought it worth the while to dispute the mysteries of the structure of a Syllogism but I am to learn that a Syllogistical disputing is more tedious than that more ungirt way which it seems pleaseth our Author better A Prosyllogism I always thought very proper
I never heard of a Papist punished whom I did not pity For the latter I discerned God so great a Lover of Humane Society that all the Precepts of the Second Table are apparently calculated for the preservation of it as I could not but abhor those who without a just and apparent cause made any attempt upon the quiet of it Upon this account I never was a Companion of any of these but in my heart abhorred them But for Errors which had nothing of these in them I could always give an allowance to them always judging that I was not Infallible and there was the same distance from my Neighbor to me as from me to him Though I always thought that a particular Church might as to its own Communion judge of such persons yet I never thought the Magistrate concern'd to burn Houses imprison any because some Church-men made an Outcry against them as Hereticks Schismaticks or that an whole City must be put into Arms as in Madrid and Lisbon because there is a Cry made for the Holy House And amongst all the Enemies of Humane Society and indeed Mankind I always thought some of the worst and least able to give account of their actions either to God or Men who pursue others to any signal Suffering because they differed from them in some Opinions which could neither be accused with Blasphemy Atheism Idolatry or any apparent prophanation of the Name of God or apparent disturbance of the Peace and Civil Government under which they lived V. These being my Principles this my steady practice Reader one would have thought I might have passed the few remaining days of my Pilgrimage without the strife or dirt of Tongues or without at least any considerable Suffering but it hath not been my lot yea possibly I have met with more than others who have been in greater opposition to some Gentlemen of the present Age which puts me in mind of what a great Church-man not long since said to a Reverend and very worthy Friend of mine rather of further latitude than my self and pleading it to him against a most unreasonable molestation I know you can and do go far we must make you go further or words to that sense which is a little temptation to me to suspect I have gone too far And brings to my mind what an Eminent Person since dead said to me almost Thirty Years since being a Young man at that time and advising with him about a compliance in some things with those who then Ruled desiring to strengthen my self with his Reasons he would give me but two First I know saith he they will fall and I will not willingly fall with them Secondly I am saith he resolved not to go two Miles with them and therefore I will not go one This latter is applicable in our Case I see those who go one Mile must voluntarily go another or be cudgelled But I thank God I have moved on better Principles and such as I hope will relieve me though I be cudgelled for not going further VI. But though I had not met with the kindness I expected from others yet one would have thought I might have expected it from Dr. Falkner a person whom I never saw and of whom when I wrote that Book I never had had any but Reverend and worthy thoughts to whom in that Discourse and the Supplement to it I had not given the least unworthy or diminutive word but whether I have met with it or no Reader be thou Judge He takes all imaginable advantages and mostly without any just cause to make me to appear a Dunce as to Chronology Critical Learning any true Exercise of Reason a most irreverent person to Superiors a Calumniator a Devil and this for saying we have many ignorant sottish and lazy Ministers an Enemy to the Church a Separatist and this he is as confident of as if he had a Revelation about it Now I am as confident of the contrary and who hath made him more infallible than his Neighbor who possible is neither inferior to him in age nâ—â— in the time of his ministration in sacred things though it may be he is not so versed in Justinian's Code or in Rabanus Maurus c. VII I hope Reader this will excuse me to thee for not Complementing him with the Title of Reverend Brother any more I perceive though he once thanks me for my civil treating him yet another time he is angry and thinks it was for nothing but to cully him into a Justification of Separation Alas it was never in my thoughts I desire no other Patronage of it than my own Conscience besides what I confidently expect from one Higher than him If I have in this Reply reflected more sharply upon him he hath found out my excuse from St. Paul's dealing with Peter Gal. 2.11 and from zeal and love for the Truth VIII I shall not introduce thee into my Book with telling thee the Vindicators Book had nothing in it of any great weight False and Erroneous Assertions that undermine the Exercise of Religion and the Peace and Welfare of the Church a strange undertaking that it hath in it unaccountable Positions These should be the Conclusions of Books not the Beginnings and the putting them in Epistles and Introductions is but a setting the Cart before the Horse I shall leave the Reader to read what hath been said by him and is replied by me and then judge of his Ergo as thou pleasest or seest Reason IX Only to make thy Labor as short as I can I have considered the Principles in which we seem really to differ for in all Controversies the business lies in a little room There are some Original Principles wherein the difference lies which till they be known and agreed the difference will never be truly understood or healed A Sylloge or Collection of the Original Questions that seem to be in difference betwixt the Author of the Reasonable Account c. and Dr. Falkner in his Vindication of Liturgies As to the point of the Lawfulness of Forms of Prayer to be generally imposed or used in our Ministerial Acts. 1 Quest WHether the distribution of Prayer into that which is meerly Mental and that which is not Mental onely but Vocal also be a just distribution I affirm it because the latter hath an essential part which the former wants The Vindicator seems to deny it Vindication p. 30. l. 1 2 3. 2 Quest Whether words be not an essential part of Vocal Prayer and these or those words an essential part of this or that Vocal Prayer which no meer man can institute I affirm it The Vindicator denies it Vide Vindication p. 177. seq 3 Quest Whether in an Act of Worship or any part of it any can determine what God hath left free to his Ministers and People excepting those to whom it is so left free I deny it 4 Quest Whether an ability fitly to express our minds to God in
be hindred Ergo. All the question here lieth upon the Minor The Answerer very honestly grants the Major he only saith there may be too great stress laid upon Zeal and Fervency but I hope not upon Holy Zeal if he looks back he will find himself acknowledging that which I said p. 43. 2. In his 75 p. he seems to fault my leaving Arguments and propounding three questions He hath no reason to be displeased at that considering he told us in his Introduction that it was acceptable to few but those who admired the Art of making Syllogisms And tho I judged a Prosyllogism containing the head of an Argument very reasonable to keep those that argue within their bounds yet in a Book I never thought following discourse reasonable to be tyed to those Forms My first question was VVhether it be possible for any to read any discourse with that degree of Attention of thoughts as he must pronounce the same with by heart It is manifest this Question was stated only with reference to the Attention of him that ministreth in the duty Our Answerer replies It is certain this may easily be done I am clearly of another mind considering 1. That there is not a wilder thing then Mans imaginative power nor its wildness at any time more seen then in Holy Duties Who is able to keep his thoughts fixed upon God and the matter of his Supplications for one quarter of an hour in Prayer The Lord Pardon me I cannot 2. While I am Reading by the help of my Eye Why a Man cannot read any thing with like Attention of thoughts as he may speak it by heart from his own Conceptions my thoughts are more at liberty to wander from what I am about then while I am speaking from the Conceptions of my own Heart I have an Eye to see and a Tongue to speak let my thoughts be where they will as to the main Operations of them after an habit of Reading once acquired they have no great business to do to help me to read right It is no great business for me to think how to sound those Letters which my Eyes have before them But while I speak from my own Conceptions my thoughts must attend my Tongue or I shall speak nothing but Nonsense This I did say and do say is to me next to a Demonstration onely I crave leave to make one term in the Question plainer by heart I meant by it from the Conceptions of his own heart and so let it stand or fall by any discreet Judgment 3. But saith our Answerer How usual is it to read the Scriptures and other Books with at great Attention as the same things can be spoken without Reading Attention to what To the matter he readeth I do doubt that I am sure a Mans thoughts in such Services are most inclinable to wander and be imployed about other things and I am sure they are more at liberty to wander Now considering both these things this possibility is confidering our imperfect state very questionable yet will it not follow that then we must not read the Scriptures but always recite them by heart because God hath made Reading of them our Duty As to this Question let all truly speak as they find I own the wildness of my heart in this thing 4. Our Answerer p. 77 78. comes to the Second Question which I propounded Whether any thing ean more conduce to fix the thoughts upon the Duty and upon God then when a man can trust his Affections to thrust out words Our Answerer saith That a Devout Sense of Gods presence and of his Purity c. may but he never considered that all these were pre-necessary to Pious Affections and without these the Affections are not rightly ordered for the duty The Question was Whether the Affections being rightly disposed their thrusting out words did not more conduce then any Form made by Men could to fix the thoughts Dr. Ames was of the opinion it did De Casibus Consc l. 4. 17. cap. qu. 4. the learned Author of Altare Damasc is of that mind in short I never met with any that denied it of necessity it must be so for there is no Medium betwixt such Affections and such words to divert or give scope of devagation to the thoughts For our Saviours repeating the same words in his Prayers upon his Agony neither is it so in the Greek neither are the words the same but for this I refer the Reader to a Supplement to the Reasonable Account where this silly Argument is fully spoken to p. 99. 100 101 102 103 104. 5. The third Question which I propounded was Whether any such Attention is to be expected from people to Forms of Prayer which they often hear as to a conceived Prayer The Author thinks it may be given to the matter of the Prayer I think so too there is no impossibility in the case I know of But the Question was Whether it be to be expected or hoped for considering the infirmity of all our natures This he wisely leaveth out and as wisely replieth nothing to the true Question 6. For what our Author adds in answer to an observation which I called at least ingenious tho none of my own That God to stir up peoples Attentions tells his people he will do a new thing he may find it Isaiah 42.9.43.19 Besides Is 42.9 new things are opposed to the former things it is this that the Scripture calls Admirable things new Num. 16.30 Jer. 31 32. But was not their Newness one thing which made them admirable I hope both his instances were new things in the strictness of Sense for when did the Earth before open and swallow up men alive When was any before Christ so miraculously conceived We do not much use to admire things we have seen a thousand times 2. He asks If God never intends to stir up mens Affections by his Word but when he tells them he will do a new thing What is that to the purpose Is not therefore newness of a thing one means to stir up Attentions and a great one too so far as it may be used without Sin Then surely it may be used He tells us further that True Religion and Devotion doth always incline to the same things Very true as to the matter and substance but doth it so also as to Words and Syllables Our Answerer hath heard of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 speaking the same things in a new manner and certainly Experience will tell us that the doing this in Divinity as well as in History contributes to the generality of Peoples Attention 7. He comes p. 82. to consider what I said to prove that Forms in Prayer hindred Fervency This I proved 1. On the Ministers part from the vast difference betwixt words following the Affections and Affections following of Words urged both by Dr. Ames and Mr. Calderwood in his Altare Damascenum This our Answerer grants as to the first use
not control'd by any Law hath otherwise expounded the Statute I doubt not but in many of their Congregations Prayer and Praise as to these Providences hath not been restrained from the Almighty But your Honours know what is truth in the Affair more than any private Person can and who knows not that the particular Emergencies respecting several Congregations and the Members of them are such as had need of Forms to be made every week to have them comprehensive of all just matter of Prayer and Praise for that Congregation 7. Nor finally are the Sufferings of Multitudes both of Ministers and People things invaluable not to look back further than the manifestation of His Majesties and the Parliaments good will for Dissenters liberty Anno 1672 and 1673. though it was not formally perfected by an Act. It would fill a Volume to tell your Honours how many and how great the Sufferings of good men have been since that time all have been bottomed in this or at least most of them that the most of the Sufferers have not thought it lawful either to perform their Ministerial Acts in Prayer by the prescribed Forms of others or to hear such a Ministration and therefore Ministers who thought themselves obliged to Preach have been constrained to do it in private and People who could not satisfie themselves without hearing somewhere have been inforced to hear in Private Meetings Hence both Ministers and People have been most wofully pursued in Ecclesiastical Courts at Assizes and Sessions some to the loss of two Thirds of their Estates some to Imprisonment for six Years together some one way and to one degree others in another way to another degree Some more legally in Courts where some have been found to defend a righteous Cause Others more illegally they have had doors broken open their Goods taken away to great Values when some Ministers have been 20 Miles off at that time when they were sworn to preach at Meetings Others private Persons at great distances from home or sick in their Beds yet have not been able to remedy themselves But it were infinite to run into Particulars we doubt not but your Honours have seen and heard enough as if some men had designed to leave none to whom the King and Parliament should shew any mercy All this while the Papists scarce one of whose Names we heard of in any Courts were hatching their most Hellish Designs against the Life of the King our Religion and Government since which time their Designs have broken out and been made manifest to our English World and certainly the madness of some Protestants to speak no worse and their apparent inclinations to more charity for Papists than Protestants whose very Name some of these men do not like Catholicks they say pleaseth them better it is easie to be judged they do but keep the Epithet within their teeth for a while layeth an high obligation on all true Englishmen to unite all Protestants that we be not made a common Prey 8. Yet did we ask of your Honours to take away all Liturgies our desire might be more liable to Exception why should we prescribe to others Consciences Nor did they in 1641. it was the Act of a Parliament in which not the Tenth part were either Presbyterians or Independents They only desire the leaving it at liberty as in most if not in all other Reformed Churches Nor are they ambitious of Bishopricks Deanaries Prebendaries they can truly say Nolumus Episcopari let the King give these things to whom he pleaseth Let us but have Bread and a liberty to Preach the Gospel without the wounding of our Consciences 9. Now may the Great God of Peace grant an happy understanding betwixt His most Excellent Majesty and Your Honours May the King live and live for ever and the Parliament be as a sheaf of Arrows in His Hand to strike through the loins of all those who have ill-will to Him to the Reformed Religion or Ancient Government of this Nation And may Your Honours have the glory of causing your Banished to return and being called The Repairers of our Breaches The Restorers of our waste places to be inhabited So shall all Posterity call you blessed And your Petitioners ever humbly pray c. AN INTRODUCTION TO THE ENSUING DISCOURSE Offered to every Intelligent and Pious Reader Good Reader I. THou hast found me so unhandsomly Represented in a Book of Dr. Falkners which he calleth A Vindication of Liturgies To which I have here returned an Answer that I cannot but judge it reasonable that I should introduce thee into my following Discourse with a Character of my self I had my time of Childhood and Vanity as well as others and perhaps did my self once think that there was no such Service of God as by Forms of Prayer But since I began to write Man since I understood any thing of Communion with God since I entred into the Ministry which is now Thirty four Years I have seen what I judged reason to be of another mind My whole Ministry hath been ordinarily exercised in one and the same place where my Conversation hath been exposed to a sufficient view As the time of my appearing to the World will clear me from having Concerns in the late Wars from having any thing to do in pressâ—ng the Covenant or the Ejecting Silencing and Imprisoning Men for the refusal of it So it is enough to tell you that I never came near an Army nor ever saw the face of Oliver Lord Protector nor ever had the least Preferment from him or Concernment with him I was always a man of a very open and free Converse and have had the honour of an Acquaintance and Converse with the most Learned men of the Episcopal Presbyterian or Congregational Persuasions in the place where I lived and elsewhere in some degrees Tros Tyriusque mihi c. Where I saw Learning and Sobriety I never made a difference thinking That the Kingdom of God lay not in these things I have had many opportunities as to men of an Episcopal Judgment to do them signal Kindnesses or Injuries of the former I did many of the latter none to any one Learned and Sober Man I always thought England was short enough of them for its Ministerial Uses so as we should not make a particular Persuasion an occasion to render them useless In the late Times I constantly pleaded the cause of any Minister in question if he were question'd only for using the Common-Prayer not for any fundamental Error nor for any Debauchery in his Life I must confess I always thought a Sottish Minister was the vilest of men and never had an heart to plead one of their Causes though I think there is not one of them can say I did them further injury than by leaving them to plead for themselves This freedom of Converse I kept till His Majesties Restauration and several Years after until I saw that some as I judged at least
shunned my Company and I never yet wanted enough so far as to tempt me to be an Intruder upon any How little I was concerned in any Publick Affairs will appear from this That if I remember right from 1646 when I entred the Ministry till 1653 I never but once saw London nor I think twice more betwixt that and 1659. I much kept home and could hardly be a month from my People but my Conscience was ready to ask me in the words of Eliab With whom hast thou left those few sheep in thy trust II. Upon the coming out of the Act of Uniformity I was concerned with Two thousand Ministers more to examine whether no more were by it required of me than I might without sinning against God do I saw so many things made necessary to the keeping of my station that I suspected what I found and more too viz. That it was by some contrived to throw out of the Publick Ministry a sort of men and all of them who were possessed of my Principles in Doctrine and though it would not do as to all yet it did as to a very great part even all those who though they believed the same things with many that did conform in points of Doctrine yet had some stricter Notions as to Worship I was afterwards the more confirmed in this from a Reverend Minister now I doubt not but with God who lived and dyed a Conformist who told me that in discourse with a Brother of his a Member in that Parliament and lamenting to him the Turning out of so many Ministers and putting so many terms upon Ministers as they could not but know would Turn out the greater part of Ministers so and so principled as to Doctrine c. He told him It was their design to do it It is very like he did not speak the Sense of the House of Commons of which he was a Member but of many he doubtless did That for those of Puritan Principles as they call'd them Jehu might slay such as escaped the Sword of Hazael and Elisha those that did escape the Sword of Jehu But when I came more narrowly to look into the Things required I discoursed with Divines and those who were most Learned of the Episcopal Persuasion I offered my Arguments heard their Answers I read the generality of Books wrote on all sides but upon the whole judged that oâ— eight or nine things required I could not judge three or not above three in any degree lawful I resolved to lay down my Publick Ministry but being set apart to the Ministry having solemmly promised not to take away my hand from that Plough I could not then think my self discharged from itâ— further than in Publick Temples places in Superiors disposal Amongst other things I was then fully possest of the Unlawfulness of performing Ministerial Acts in Prayer by the prescribed Forms of others Three or four of those Arguments truly I think I may say all but one of them were my Arguments 1662. and then freely discoursed with divers of my own Brethren and several Learned men some of whom are dead some yet alive at this time and the Heads of them by me were drawn up in writing and the most considerable Inlargements as to the proof of them From that time till 1673 they lay by me some little before that all knew at what a rude rare all Nonconformists were treated in several Books as the veriest Dunces in the world men that opposed themselves to Authority meerly out of Stubbornness judging the things lawful being able to give no Reasons for their Nonconformity Men fit for Gallies Prisons c. This made me review what I had Eleven Years before drawn up for my own private use with some Additions and particularly Answers to some Arguments which in that time I had met with and Dr. Falkner's Book coming at that time out I could not baulk what he had said Whosoever readeth what I wrote will be my Compurgator that I did not give any a Presumption that I thought my Cause weak by any uncivil treating of the Doctor I saw he was a man of some Learning that he had read many Authors nor had I ever heard an ill word of him as to Sobriety of Life or Warping in Doctrine I treated him with that Civility which I thought became me meerly answering his pretended Reason and Arguments I did indeed see that the making good the Notion I was fully possess'd of would make any further answer to his Libertas Ecclesiastica needless and am very much for the Rule of Frustra fit per plura c. III. But though I quickly concluded this sinful to me to perform my Ministerial Acts in Prayer by the prescribed Forms of others yet I never intended to trouble others with my Notion till I was challenged to it by the worlds being told We had nothing to say for our selves I never that I remember preached it in one Sermon I never affirmed it sinful for People to join with others that use Forms though by the way I do not think that People in the worship of God may lawfully do whatsoever they judge just lawful if they be commanded to do it I was a little tender my self as to Total Separation This hath made me from the Year 1662 not decline hearing Ministers that used it nor as occasion offer'd receiving the Sacrament with sober Ministers and a sober People though the Minister used the Liturgy in doing of it although withal neither have I refused to hear others and receive it with them too as I had occasion nor I think shall I be deter'd from it by the Scare-crow-word Separation I fear not separating from any with whom I am but morally persuaded by Arguments which I cannot answer that I cannot join without separating from the Will of God and further I will separate from no Christians in the world This Reader is known to as many as know me by any ocular observation of my Converse IV. Further than this my Nature disposeth me to such a Benignity as I am Enemy to none but such as are open Enemies to the Glory of God or led by their Lusts and Passions to Acts disturbing Humane Societies Upon the first account I always thought Atheists open Blasphemers professed publick Idolaters were to be punished by the Judge with the severest punishments Profane Swearers and Cursers and Violation of the Sabbath with proportionable punishments and those who detected such did a good action Yet as to these I never thought an Inquisition might be set up nor an Oath Ex Officio administred to make them to accuse themselves Nor as to Idolatry did I ever think that the Magistrate ought to punish any thing but Open Profession of it or Seduction to it Upon which account until this late Plot convinced me that nothing would serve the Papists less than the whole Government and that to get it they thought Assassinations Poysoning Lying For swearing any thing lawful
him to read any Book of mans making a thousand times with that Gift and holy Reverence and with so little taedium as he may so read the Books and Chapters of Holy Writ So as all he saith is just nothing to the purpose the Author at first restraining his Question to Forms composed by Men that are confessedly no part of Holy Writ For Forms that are part of Holy Writ they are throughout his Book excepted nor doth he any where conclude they hinder pious Dispositions or that they may not be used as part of the exercise of the Ministerial Gift But something must be said to expose Authors instead of answering him 14. In his 25 page to raise up a prejudice against the Author he very learnedly passeth from Prayer of one kind to Prayer of another kind and concludeth That because he sinneth not who joyneth with another ministring in Prayer when it is apparent by all Scripture that he is not to pray vocally but onely to pray in his heart Therefore he sinneth not who doth it ministring in Prayer when he is to pray vocally not mentally onely It is easie to raise such prejudices and for ordinary Readers to see through them 15. Our Authors last prejudice mentioned against the Authors Opinion That a great part and he thinks the greater part of the Nonconformists will not own his Notion I fear will appear an hasty prejudging the Nonconformists 16. Though the Answerer speaks warily in the case of the Commissioners appointed 1662 for he onely saith They made this no part of their Objections yet he would plainly suggest they who by the way except the Episcopal men were all Presbyterians were of another mind What to say for those who attended not the Commission I cannot tell but for those who appeared and daily met till they had wholly drawn up what they intended to propose to my Lords the Bishops I can tell The Bishops desired them to meet by themselves which they did at Mr. Calamy's House till they had agreed all which afterward they offered at the Savoy to the Bishops What they agreed in this point may be read in these words in their Seven General Proposals That the Gift of Prayer being one special qualification for the work of the Ministry bestowed by Christ in order to the Edification of his Church and to be exercised for the profit and benefit thereof according to its various and emergent necessities It is desired that there may be no such Imposition of the Liturgy as that the Exercise of that Gift be totally excluded in any part of Publick Worship 17. That Men may not please themselves with Dreams and think those last were meer completory words upon which no stress was laid I will assure them that that Proposal had never been agreed without them they being brought in by the Reverend Mr. Mat. Newcomb after as I remember three days spent in debates about that Proposal I do know but three Men of those who appeared and would declare their minds who would hear of any Liturgy Vniversally Imposed Those three indeed were great Men. The most Reverend Bishop Reinolds was one Mr. Calamy was another the third yet living I shall not name Mr. Calamy often urged That if forms of Prayer were lawful the Imposing of them did not make them unlawful It was answered If forms of Prayer were Vniversally lawful Imposing could not make them unlawful but it was denied That they were as to use in publick Devotion Vniversally lawful 18. The debate of the 19 General Proposals was the ordinary work of the Commissioners met together In the mean time they had according to the Instructions of their Commission committed the several Offices of the old Liturgy to several Brethren to be reviewed that they might see what exceptions were reasonable to be offered The drawing up a New Form was committed to another These in their Seasons were brought in and read But the far Major part of the Commissioners present having obtained the 7th Proposal and in that a perfect liberty of the use or not use of any were very incurious as to those things onely listned so far to them as to see there was nothing but what they might own This is the truth of that story so far as it passed before they came to give in what they agreed to receive the Bishops Answer and to make their Reply What was then done the Printed Account fully tells us 19. This is enough to have spoken to this Chapter of the Reverend Doctors only I must requite him with thanks for his Complement the good Milk wherewith he suckles me and tho he presently with an oblique stroak of his heel throws it down again yet I have such a value for it as in the following Chapters I shall endeavour to gather it up and if such a thing be possible for a Non-Con redeem my reputation from such an ugly imputation as the writing of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 inconsistencies CHAP. II. An Answer to the Vindicators Second Chapter concerning the Gift of Prayer Whether the Gift of Prayer as to Vocal Prayer be properly an Ability to express our minds to God in Prayer or whether it be the same with the Grace given us to be used in Prayer or an Extraordinary Gift peculiarly relating to the Apostles and Christians in their Age 1. ALL this while methinks I have been in a Drapers Shop staring upon the lofty and Oblique Lights which I discerned in it and wondering wherefore â—o make up a judgment whether the Sun shined or no I must be put to a troublesome elevation of my Eye stretching my Nerves and contracting my Eye-lids till at last I discerned the Art and that a nearer and more direct light though it might have been possibly of more advantage to the buyer yet to the seller would have been less profitable giving his Customer a too near an advantage to judge of his Wares and the Arts used about them 2. I had thought that in the beginning of the former Chapter The Issue was joyned or as the Civilians speak we had had Litene contestatam The Question was stated The Opponent agreed it clearly and plainly staâ—ed The Arguments were brought What had an Answerer to do but to deny one or other Proposition or to distinguish of some Terms Twelve Pages since that have been spent and nothing of this done To what purpose is this prejudicating a Reader but to possess his mind one way before the cause is tryed and to raise his passion with strange stories before he be suffered to use his Reason to judge who hath the best cause upon hearing what each party can say But at length we shall it may be come to something which is to the purpose 3. The first Argument was stated thus To omit a mean for the performance of a Religious Act given us by God for the performance of it and being natural and proper Reasonable Account p. 5. at the command of man when
may be avoided nor is there the least shadow of Reason for what he saith Yes saith he he speaks of ministring one to another now he that prayeth ministreth only to God He speaketh of Officers in the Church ministring now surely they in Prayer Minister not to God only but to the Church or else the Church and they pray diverse things 36. He comes to answer what I urged from Rom. 12.6 Having Gifts given according to the Grace given us whether prophecying let us prophecy according to the proportion of Faith or Ministry let us wait on our ministry or he that teacheth on Teaching or he that exhorteth on Exhortation He that giveth let him do it with Simplicity he that Ruleth with Diligence he that sheweth Mercy with Chearfulness As to this he only referreth to his former Answer to 1 Pet. 4.10 and tells us there is no mention of Prayer there but the other gifts which the Apostle meaneth are there named Let me a little enlarge on this Theme because it will give some light to that text 1 Tim. 4.14 The Apostle is plainly there speaking of the Whole Church Service which he distinguisheth into Prophecy and Ministry Ministry distinguisheth it into the Ministry of him that giveth or sheweth Mercy which is that of Deacons or Ruling under Prophecying he comprehendeth all other Acts of a Gospel Minister for though Prophets and Prophecying in the New Testament sometime signify persons or acts predicting things to come as it is used with reference to Agabus Acts 21. sometimes some Acts which were the extraordinary gifts of the Holy Ghost as is in some places in 1 Cor. 12.13.14 yet it also signifies the Ordinary Ministry of all those who had something to do besides Ruling and shewing Mercy These we call Ministers tho the Apostle speaks otherwise in this Text to distinguish them from Deacons and meer Rulers and therefore calls their whole Ministration Prophecy That precept 1 Thess 5.20 Despise not Prophecying is not to be restrained to Praedictions or immediate Revelations but comprehends all Gospel Ministrations of the Ordinances of Christ tho expressed by one of the Eminentest among them which is Preaching the Gospel Now as to these the Apostle saith Having Gifts let us Minister Being in these Offices let us Minister 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 according to the grace of God given to us that is according to that Ability which God hath given us I Appeal to any thinking Reader whether this bids not very fair for the true and plain sense of that Text which if it doth 1. Prayer is there spoken to included in the general term Prophecying tho no more particularly named then Baptizing or Giving the Lords Supper or Visiting the Sick c. 2. If that difficult Phrase 1 Tim. 4.14 be not to be understood By Prophecy that is by God who is the Author of Prophecy but To or for Prophecy according to Vatablus Piscator and Beza a very fair Sense may be put on that Text without restraining it most unreasonably to the Extraordinary Gifts of the Spirit 37. The Answerer saying no more to deliver these Texts out of my hands cometh p. 67 c. to except against my description of the Gift of Prayer for the publick Service of the Church as very defective especially in two things My Description was An Ability to express our Minds fitly to God in Prayer 1. He saith the Conception of the Ministers mind must be sober well ordered comprehensive suitable to the Nature of the Duty Is not all this comprehended in Fitly To what purpose so many words I never loved long Descriptions 2. He tells me the Minister is not to exâ—ress his mind his desires or wants but the Mind he should have said the wants of the whole Assembly I would gladly know how he should know the Wants and Regular desires of the whole Assembly but from the Scriptures and whether their ordinary wants be not his also For emergent wants how they who made Forms 100 Years ago could know the Wants and Desires of the several Assemblies of Christians at this day more than the Ministers now living and conversing with them and whether this be in the least probable if God or Christ who did know all things past present and to come did not draw those Forms I am not able to conceive 38. Another place he must except to that is p. 9 10. and put a Marginal Note upon it too that is this I said We thought it would be hard to find Nine or Ten thousand Schollars in England furnished with the Gift of Praying or Preaching in any tolerable manner Is not this one of their own Arguments for the necessity of Forms of Prayer I have read and heard it forty times from them I hope he will now be reconciled to me who have told him and do from my heart believe it that there are twice Ten thousand Persons in England who either are or might be Ministers who have the Gift of Prayer He might before have been Friends with me if he had pleased for I find I had told him so before Reasonable Account p. 154. CHAP. III. An Answer to what the Vindicator saith in his Third Chapter beginning at p. 73. Whether any can with equal Attention of his Mind read in a Book as speak the Conceptions of his own Heart Whether Ministers can by Forms Pray with equal Fervency and Devotion The contrary proved The People not so much concerned in it c. 1. THe Argument which our Answerer comes to answer in this Chapter was falsly Printed and I thank him for not imputing the Error of the Printer to me who saw not the Book till it was too late to Correct any thing in it I shall therefore transcribe and amend it here It lyeth thus To use such a mode in the ordinary performance of our duty in publick Solemn Prayer as either from the necessary workings of Humane Nature or otherwise upon experience we find either hindring the Attention of our own or others thoughts to the duty or the Intention of our own or others Spirits in the performance of the duty when we can so perform it as neither of them will be to that degree hindred is unlawful But for him who hath the Gift of Prayer I now expound that term by an Ability fitly to express his Mind to God in Prayer to perform his Ministerial Acts in Publick Solemn Prayer by the Prescribed Forms of other Men not divinely inspired these words were left our is for him to use such a mode in those Acts of Worship as either from the Natural workings of Humanâ— Nature or from some other cause scarce â—voidable is upon experience found to hinder our own Attention and also the Attention of others thoughts to the duty and the intention and fervency of our own and others Spirits in the duty when in the mean time we have an Ability so to perform it as neither of them will at least to that degree
4 and 5 Centuries might mistake 3. I am not concerned to make good what Smectymnuus said tho I knew the Men that made that Book and know that none of them wanted learning but for the Commissioners of the Savoy their saying they could find no intire Liturgies within the first 300 years doth not argue that they found any then for I am sure they did not but those being the times of the purer Primitive Church they by their Commission were concerned to speak to no more I do say it again that they might have said That they find no Record of any Liturgy universally used or imposed and commanded to be used by all for 600 years till the time of Gregory the great nor then by any imposed but by Gregory the worst of all the Bishops of Rome before his time whose Judgment and Practice in this case signified little but under the Protection of Charles the Great 200 years after that I repeat not here an Answer to the Answerers silly Reflection p. 138 I believe I knew what time Gregory the Great and Charles the Great lived before our Vindicator could construe his Cato and that his Book did not enlighten me with this glorious peice of Learning the Supplement will inform him and all those who have a mind to laugh at such lamentable Exceptions We must attend hereafter to what our Author can say to prove Liturgies of Prayer generally used or commanded to be used before the time of Gregory the great 4. In the mean time he takes notice that I will not allow that the three Canons which he quoted that of the Councel of Laodicea cap. 18. of the third Councel of Carthage can 23. of Milevis can 12. had any res ect to Liturgies and their establishment Where have I denied they had no respect to Liturgies Or what doth he mean by Estab ishment For still it is not our Interest I perceive to speak plainly and distinctly I have denyed and do deny that those Canons have the least tittle of proof That Liturgies in the time when those Canons were made and yet the last of these was more then 400 years after Christ were generally used or commanded to be generally used one of which they must prove before they have proved that my Opinion Tâ—at the Vniversal use of Liturgies is not lawful in all probability is false because contrary to the judgment of the Church for 1300 years past 5. I had reason to say so when the last of these Councels was not till 402 and then made for a particular Church and in a particular case which I have else where largely shewed and given a full account of it and for the Two first Supplement p. 30 31 32 33 34 35 36. it is doubted whether ever there were any such Councils and tho this Author produceth something out of Justellus to prove there was such a Council of Laodicea yet there is no Canon of it enjoyning a Form of Prayers should be used morning and evening Other Collectors of Councils very ancient too have no such Council there was but 22 or 42 at it and for the other 3 Carthag Justellus tells our Vindicator the 23 Cannon could not be theirs for that Council made but 21 nor is the 23th to be found in Justellus his Code of the African Church where it should have been if it had been of any authority And our Vindicator tells us too this Code was extant 451 so as at that time they knew of no such Canon And though the first mentioned Canon of Laodicea was taken into the Code which Code was approved by the Council of Calcedon Anno 451. yet there is no proof that Forms of Prayer were then generally used or imposed For the Canon it self mentions no more then a publick Ministry of Prayers as to which Forms are not necessary In the late times in Colledge Chappels there was morning and evening 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 where no Forms were used but a certain Order observed all the Week and Year long And indeed this is an usual Cheat in these debates when Men hear or read of a Liturgy of Prayers they presently think there 's a proof for Forms of Praâ—er when it is but of late years that the term Liturgy hath been appropriated to signifie a Common Prayer Book And admit there were such a Council of Carthage and they made what is called the 23 Canon which Justellus denieth yet that as I have shewed in my Supplement determined no such thing that of Milevis or Mela indeed did but in a very small Corner of the Church and for a very particular reason and the Vindicator cannot say these 2 Canons were ever brought into Justellus his Code or confirmed by any general Council But of this matter I have elsewhere said enough 6. For what our Author objects p. 143. to prove the Laodicean Canon injoyned more then the same Ministry or Order of Prayer even Forms From the next Canon it speaketh not a word of Forms more then the other only three Prayers were made 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 are the words used neither of them signifying the reading of a Prayer out of a Book by a Form See at the end of the Book in the Review a full Answer to all said by Dr. Faulkner on this head Whereas our Answerer p. 144 complains I have not read over or considered what he hath said to prove that the Canon of Carthage contrary to the plain sense of the words commanded a Form he will find it taken notice of in my Supplement largely enough p. 28. For the Councel of Milevis it proves no universal use nor any Vniversal Imposition Now that Forms may be used by some Ministers and at some times and that in some particular Exigent they may be Vniversally Imposed for a time which was the cause then I do not doubt but enough is said of that Council Supplement p. 30.31 c. I leave to any Reader to judge whether it is not like a very great part of their Ministry were tainted with Pelagianism whatever our Vindicator saith 7. I shall not trouble my self further about this Section the Argument if it were good concluding nothing as to the Lawfulness and Vnlawfulness I have said in my Supplement as much as I think can be said at least as I can say and so I think hath our Answerer let the Reader judge who hath spoken with most probability and from most Credible Authority So far as we understand the truth of Church Affairs for the first 300 years which we can have no great certainty of for the generality of our Editions are from the Papists who would let us know as little of the truth as they could where it was contrary to their Practice what was held practiced and retained in the Church not being matter of Faith within two hundred years after Christ is no great guide to our Practice tho I said and do believe that Forms of Prayer were
a disposition wrought by Gods holy Spirit in the heart and a resolution to do them which is indeed Repentance in the Seed but such a Seed as must necessarily afterwards produce its Fruit. For it is as impossible any Soul should truly trust and hope in Christ for that Eternal Life which he hath only promised to an Holy Life and not live such a life as it is that a man or woman should truly trust and hope in a rich man for an Estate without doing the things to the performance of which he hath made the promise which is even naturally impossible for any to do tho they may pretend to it CHAP. VIII A Reply to what the Vindicator hath said Chap. 7. p. 219 c. The Vindicator will not understand that the Question was at first stated only as to Vocal Prayer nor speak to the thing in difference Two Errors running through all the Vindicators Book He hath brought no sufficient Reasons for a different Interpretation of the Divine Precepts for Prayer and Preaching He trifleth in applying what I said as to Reading to a recitation of anothers words tho it be without Reading The impertinent ways of modern Answerers the Vindicator too much followeth them 1 IN the 7th Chap. p. 219. Our Vindicator comes to Answer my Sixth Argument which I had thus laid down To pretend to perform an Act of Worship Reasonable Acc. p. 115. and yet not to do it at the same time is sinful But for Ministers furnished by God with the Gift of Prayer to perform their Ministerial Acts in Prayer by the prescribed Forms of others is to pretend to the performance of an Act of Divine Worship and at the same time not to do it Ergo The Major I conceived needed no proof for to do such a thing were but to mock God and to deceive our own Souls The Minor I proved 1. Because we so interpret the precept for Preaching not Go read other Mens Sermons 2. If he read such Prayers I said it was a further question because in all languages the words used to express Reading are different from those used to express Praying I said we laid a greater stress upon other Arguments then upon this yet we could nor think thiâ— vain anâ— impertinent I said at first That the question is not about Prayer in the general but about Vocal Prayer p. 115. again p. 117. We are speaking of Vocal Prayer and what is the Will of God relating to that species of Prayer 2. In our Vindicators Chapter relating to this Argument two things are considerable 1. The Answer 2. The Reflections that have nothing of an Answer in them I shall only inform my Readerâ— that it may appear by the Title of my Book and by the conclusion of it and by many passages in it that I did not pretend in this case to define but only to argue not to determine what is lawful and unlawful for all Men in it self absolutely but to give our Reasons why we judge this thing unlawful leaving others to the conduct of their own Consciences Nor had I done this if the World had not been so often and so impudently told That we grant these things lawful That we have no reasons nothing to say Wisdome Reason and Learning were all born with them and with them alone they must dwell and dye Now these things being first called to mind let us hear what our Answerer saith to the Argument 3. First he saith This is an heavy Charge a false Accusation a Slander a Calumny but whom doth it accuse Not a person in the World Do I giving my Argument why I so judge a thing unlawful condemn others who think the same thing lawful especially when I profess against it p. 164. n. 2. Next he saith I contradict my self having granted before Forms in themselves lawful and may lawfully be used by Ministers in some cases Very pretty and I contradict my self forsooth because I now say that I think it unlawful for Ministers furnished with the Gift of Prayer and in a capacity to use it nothing naturally hindring I would gladly know in what degree of opposition these Propositions are Shall we continually be troubled with Arguments Ex ignoratione Elenchi not concluding against the Question or to whom do such Arguments signifie any thing Let the Reader see the Question stated p. 5. 4. But at length our Vindicator thinks he shall speak to the point telling us That there is not the same reason to interpret the precept of Preaching as the precepts for Prayer Very good why did not he say so at first I do think there is how doth he prove there is not He saith instead of every precept is to be interpreted every duty is to be performed suitably to the Nature of the Duty it self or in such a manner as may best tend to the pleasing of God and the exercise of true Piety Very true it being always understood that those things best please God and are the truest exercises of Piety which are according to his will For to talk in matters of External Worship of any thing pleasing to God being an Exercise of Piety or any vertue in them antecedent to or separate from the Divine Will is very odd discourse God hath not willed acts in External Worship because they are good and pious but because he hath willed them therefore they are so But he tells us That in Publick Prayer Religious Devotion and Gracious Dispositions and Desires towards God are the great things to be practised and to that end the use of a Form is well accommodated I suppose he means for all Ministers for otherwise he saith nothing 8. We are speaking as I said at first not of Prayer in the general but of Vocal Prayer of which as I have proved words are an Essential Part and being so our Author hath told us None but God can institute what words we shall use If he hath appointed any Forms of this Nature they are therefore lawful and best because he hath appointed them If he hath left us some but not commanded us to use them but leaving us at liberty to use them or others to that sense Man can no more determine then in the case of the Turtle Doves or young Pigeons If he hath only Instituted words as a part of Vocal Prayer but left it to the liberty of his Ministers what words to use only requiring them to ask nothing contrary to his Revealed Will it is not in the Creatures power to determine to another what words he should use 6. Two Errors and no small ones I have observed running through all our Vindicators Book He seems not to allow of Vocal Prayer to be a distinct species of Prayer from what is meerly Mental which it must be or it would be sufficient for a Minister in the publick Congregation to Pray Mentally and 2. Prayer would be no Homage of our Lipps and outward man And if it be there is
only further mentions Hymns and proveth the use of Hymns of Ecclesiastical composition from Pliny and Lucian no very competent Witnesses of the Christian Churches affairs The early use of the Lords Prayer is easily yielded him but it is a strange proof of a Form of Prayers composed by other Men and generally used or imposed to prove as p. 158 That they began in some Churches with the Lords Prayer and ended with the Hymns of many names which Mr. Gregory thought was the clause at the end of the Lords Prayer and he doth but guess it some other The Lords Prayer cometh not within our question be it a Form or not a Form 25. Whatsoever he saith à p. 160. ad p. 164. is rather ad pompam then ad pugnam it all referreth to the use of Forms of Prayers in the Jewish Church To it all I shall only add 2 things 1. It is very improbable and will appear so to every considerate Christian that we should have in Scripture a full account of the Jewish Church from its Cradle to its Tomb and so particular an Account of the way of Worship which God established amongst them from which they might not vary and they should have Forms of Prayers established for ordinary use and the Scripture not mention any thing of them we read in Scripture of other Books they had some of which are perished some preserved for our Instruction and Guidance We read of the Book of the Law many times but never of their Common Prayer Book nor of any person that used the 18 Prayers We read Nehemiah 8. That in a solemn day of Worship the whole Congregation met and called to Ezra for the Book of the Law he brings it they read in it from the Morning to Mid-day v. 1 2. After this we read of many Priests and Levites who read in the Book of the Law distinctly and gave the People the sense of it and made them to understand the reading thereof but we read not a word of their Book of Prayers either there or in any other part of Scripture We read in Luke that when our Saviour came into the Synagogue on the Sabbath day they brought him the Book of the Prophet Isaiah he read in it and preached out of it but neither there do we read of the Book of 18 Prayers brought forth I must confess that in ordinary cases it is not a good Argument That this or that thing was not in being or in use because there is no Sacred Record of the being or use of it But certainly concerning Gods Worship amongst the Jews it is a good Argument to prove there was no such thing established in their Worship because in the Holy Scriptures where we have the full story of that Church a full account of their Worship either by Moses or David so many charges to them not to add thereto nor to diminish there-from there is not any mention of a Book of publick Prayers which God directed for that Church we read only of a blessing which looketh like a Form tho some have been of another mind of Gods own directing tho we often read of the Book of the Law called for brought read in and often read of the Servants of God Praying publickly yet not the least mention is made of a Book or Forms by which they prayed Admit they had had Forms if God had prescribed them it had been out of our question who will freely allow God to prescribe his own Homage and Worship but to think that any of the Jews or the whole Sanhedrim had Authoriâ—y to make any for universal use when God gave such punctual directions both to Moses for the Service of the Taberncale and all things therein and to David for the Service of the Temple that it is expresly said Exod. 39.42 3. That the very structure of the Tabernacle was according to all that the Lord commanded Moses and Deut. 4.2 there is so express a command You shall not add to the word which I command you nor shall you diminish from it which is repeated Deut. 12.32 and David saith 1 Chron. 28.11 12 13 19. All this the Lord made me to understand in Writing by his hand upon me v. 12. the pattern of all that he had by the Spirit When we read of Nadab and Abihu being struck dead Levit. 10. for but using ordinary fire in a Sacrifice and of Vzzah being struck dead for but touching the Ark when it shook in the New Cart it being Gods prescript that that Family of the Levites should carry the Ark on their shoulders Num. 4.15 7 9. I say after all this for any to go about to prove that the Jews in their Worship had Forms of Prayer not prescribed of God which their Ministers were bound to use and of which is no mention in Scripture is an undertaking fit for none but those who think they can prove Quidlibet e quolibet nor to be believed by any but such as are very credulous Our Vindicator saith their very Sacrifices were Rites of Supplications and as to them they were limited and used no such Variety Rites of Supplication and Supplications are two things and these Rites were limited by God not by the Sanhedrim I hope nor were they without some variety in them For his instance 2 Chron. 29.30 It is said They praised God with the Words of David and Asaph the Seer Asaph was a Prophet David told us he ordered nothing but by the Spirit of God what he understood by the hand of the Lord in writing upon him For Joel 2.17 which he quoteth surely Joel was divinely inspired nor is that Prayer surely of length enough for a whole Office nor was it more then a general direction for matter to be inlarged in words as the Jewish Minister thought fit For what Dr. Lightfoot Dr. Outram Scaliger Buxtorf Ainsworth tell us they have had their Intilligence from the Rabbies the eldest of which of whom we have any Record was saith Alstedius after the world was 3380 years old The Hierusalem Talmud was finished by R. Jochanan 250 years after Christ the Babilonian Talmud not till 500. The most of the Writings of their Rabbins saith Alsted appeared not to the World till 1000 years after Christ Now how competent Witnesses these are whose Books also are as full of Fables as leaves of the practice of the Jewish Church before Christ or in its incorrupt state let any judge who are men of sense 2. But admit it were a thing capable of proof that the Jews in their incorrupt times and that by Gods command ordinarily used Forms of Prayer in their Worship and that such as were neither prescribed by God nor any Prophet or Penman of Holy Writ or that in and about and since Christs time they have used such Forms of Prayer ought this to guide the Practice of the Christian Church Or will it prove that the same thing is lawful in the Christian Church I