Selected quad for the lemma: book_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
book_n	find_v	great_a	read_v	2,892	5	5.5522	4	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A12592	A godly treatise containing and deciding certaine questions, mooued of late in London and other places, touching the ministerie, sacraments, and Church Whereunto one proposition more is added. After the ende of this booke you shall finde a defence of such points as M. Penry hath dealt against: and a confutation of many grosse errours broched in M. Penries last treatise. Written by Robert Some Doctor of Diuinitie.	Some, Robert, 1542-1609.; Penry, John, 1559-1593. Defence of that which hath bin written in the questions of the ignorant ministerie, and the communicating with them.	1588 (1588)	STC 22909; ESTC S117654	118,250	200

kingdome hee and his sonnes in the middes of Israel Deut. 17. I frame my argument thus The king is commaunded to reade the lawe of God that hee may learne to feare God and decline pride therefore the reading of the law of God doth edifie In king Iosias time the booke of the lawe was found by Hilkiah the Priest This booke was read in the Lordes house The king was present so were all the men of Iuda the inhabitants of Ierusalem and the Priests and the Leuites and all the people from the greatest to the smallest c. 2. Chron. 34. I make my argument thus The booke of the lawe was not read in vaine in the Lordes house c. 2. Kings 22. therefore it did edifie All the wordes of my mouth are righteous there is no lewdnesse nor frowardnesse in them They are all plaine to him that will vnderstande and streight to them that would find knowledge Prou. 8. Therefore the holy Scriptures both read and preached doe edifie His salubriter praua corriguntur paruanutriuntur magna oblectantur ingenia Aug. Epist 3. The holy Scripture hath in it milke for babes and stronger meate for them that are of age Heb. 5. The holy Scripture is a shallowe water where in the lambe may wade and a great sea wherein the Elephant may swimme The Lawe and the Prophets were read in the Churches of Antiochia and Ierusalem Act. 13. and in Nazareth Luke 4. If the reading of the holy Scriptures doe not edifie why were the law and Prophets read in the Temple and Synagogues The Apostle writeth thus to the pastours and people of Colosse Let the worde of Christ dwell in you plenteously c. Coloss 3. Therefore Gods people are not to be barred from the reading of the holy Scripture If it doeth not edifie they were iustly barred by the Popish Cleargie Victorinus was an Oratour in Rome By reading the Scriptures he became a Christian Mirante Roma gaudente ecclesia that is Rome marueyled at Victorinus conuersion Gods Church was glad of it Aug. Confess lib. 8. cap. 2. Gods speach vnto vs I am sure doth edifie when the Scriptures are read God speaketh vnto vs. The holy Scriptures are Dei Epistola c. that is Gods Epistle vnto vs. By reading the Scriptures Gods people do more easily receiue Gods holy truth and espie Popish absurdities and Anabaptisticall fancies They which mislike the reading of the scriptures are Zwingfildians that is absurde heretikes What then is master Penry which writeth that the worde barely read and to no other purpose then to edifie by reading is not wholesome doctrine If any shall gather of this I haue set downe that I am an enemie to the preaching of the word hee deserueth no answere My iudgement is If the reading of the holy scriptures doeth edifie that sounde preaching doeth edifie much more By sound preaching I vnderstand the giuing of the true sense of the scripture and applying it to the profite of the auditours Thus did Ezra Christ the Apostles preach This course I am sure doeth highly please God and bringeth many sheepe into the Lordes folde The Lorde increase the number of such teachers that Gods religion may flourish as Aarons rod did and that Popish and Anabaptisticall errours may be deuoured as the roddes of the Egyptian sorcerers were Ille huic doctrinae inimicus est animus qui vel errando eam nescit esse saluberrimam vel odit aegrotando medicinam Agust Epist. 3. CHAP. 5. A DEFENCE OF THAT which hath bene written in the questions of the ignorant ministerie and the communicating with them By IOHN PENRY THere be two things M. D. SOME wherein you by oppugning that trueth which out of the worde of God I had set downe concerning the two former questions haue bene wanting both vnto your selfe and to the cause the defence whereof you vndertooke The former want of the two appeareth by your spare dealing in a matter of such great weight wherin you haue dealt with so illiberal a hand that what hath bene written by you might seeme to proceede rather from any then from a man whose gifts and learning seemed to promise the affording of greater and more weightie matters then any set downe in that treatise R. Some Your beginning is full of courage I do not wonder at it He that runneth alone is alwayes formost You accuse me to withstande Gods trueth A sore charge If true I must reuerse my iudgement if vntrue true you haue dealt iniuriously with me When Ioas was aduanced to the Imperiall Crowne of Iuda Athalia cried Treason Treason 2. Chron. 23. A hard speach against king Ioas Iehoiada c. But Athalia her selfe was the Traitour You shall apply this I haue dealt you say verie sparingly in a matter of great importance If I haue so your aduantage is greater If the seede sowen in my booke were like yours I might be iustly thought to bee verie prodigall My treatise I perceiue is not for your tooth it is simple in your eye Aquila non capit muscas It hath pleased many I thanke God of excellent learning and wisedome to like of it That is my comfort Instar mille Platonis calculus I make very meane account as yet of your iudgement You are not read you are to seeke in the principles of diuinitie you haue broched grosse errours you know not your ignorance For that knowledge which Almightie God hath giuen me I thanke his Maiestie verie humbly It is more I confesse then I am worthie of God giue me grace to vse it to his glorie I. Penry The number of my reasons were many you onely haue touched two of them the rest are not dealt with And therefore the cause as yet remaineth whole For be it you had answered these two as you haue not yet had you not satisfied the doubtfull conscience of those that know not in these points which way to turne them as long as any one of my reasons remayned vnanswered R. Some Your reasons I confesse haue number but they want weight I haue confuted three of them The first of the three is accompted by you a pillar of marble But I haue not you say dealt with the rest Content yourselfe I haue made no fault I answered such and so many as were deliuered to me by some of your faction When I had finished my treatise your booke was brought me before I knew not that you were the father of them You denie that I haue answered any of your reasons It is easie to say so and you might worst haue sayde it A partie is vnfit to be a Iudge Your reasons are all of one stampe therefore the ouerthrow of the principall is the ouerthrow of all Your followers vvhich knowe not which way to turne them may thanke both you and themselues you for sowing themselues for reaping such giddie fancies It is an easie thing to leade and fall into an Anabaptisticall maze They will not bee satisfied you say before

Matthewe that none whatsoeuer may be admitted to baptisme before they be taught they shut our infants from the holy sacrament and therefore are Catabaptists Master Penry answeres nothing to this So am I eased of some labour R. Some The vnpreaching Ministers do adde verbum aedificans that is an edifying word to the Elements in the administratiō of the holy Supper therefore c. I. Penry Vnpreaching Ministers doe adde an edifying worde vnto the Element therfore it is a Sacrament This reason is the same with the former Which sheweth the great nakednes pouertie of the cause that one reason must be thrise periured to proue the goodnes of it which notwithstanding it can not shew I denie the antecedent and consequent R. Some Your eyes are not matches If they were you might haue seene very easily that no reason of mine is periured once much lesse thrise I am perswaded that if you be not well coniured by the Magistrate you wil proue a strange body You are farre gone alreadie Strange fancies haue almost cōsumed you The Magistrates discipline is the fittest medicine for you If that will not recouer you your disease is desperate You denie both my antecedent consequent My antecedēt was that vnpreaching Ministers do adde an edifying word to the Element That there is verbum aedificans I proue it thus The summe of Christes Sermon in the Institution administration of the holy Supper by himselfe is the worde of Institution in the administration of the holy Supper in the Church of England therefore vnlesse we wil denie the summe of Christes Sermon to bee an edifying worde which no learned man will denie we must confesse that wee haue verbum aedificans that is an edifying worde in the administration of the holy Supper with vs. I. Penry Your reason of the antecedent that the recital of the summe of Christs Sermon that is the words of Institution is an edifying worde is falfe and maintaineth charming For doe you thinke that the worde of institution being as you say the summe of Christs Sermon is then an edifying worde whensoeuer it is recited by a prophane person euen in the prophanation of Gods ordinance Looke 2. Tim. 4.3 and you shall finde that the worde barely read and to no other purpose then to edifie by reading is not holsome doctrine The popish priest either without or within the booke pronounceth in his darke Latine the summe of Christs sermon Is that an edifying word which he prophanely breatheth The word of God vttered is not an edifying worde vnlesse it bee vtered according to the ordinance both in regard of the persons that vtter the same and the ende wherefore it is vttered No learned man wil denie the Lords prayer rightly sayd to be an edifying worde And yet by your leaue no learned man vnlesse he fauoureth charming or poperie will say that the Lords prayer pronounced by an ignorant man in a strange tongue or prophaned by a witch is an edifying word R. Some M. Penry is now in his Ruffe His pride and ignorance appeare in their colours They are proclaimed euen by himselfe He denieth that the recitall of the summe of Christs Sermō by an vnpreaching minister is an edifying word he saieth it maintaineth charming Can we thinke that this man is guided by Gods spirit whose heart conceiued and pen broght forth such blasphemie That the reader may be assured that the summe of Christs Sermon is an edifying word I will first set downe the word of Institution which is the summe of Christs Sermon and then proue the point The word of institution in the holy Supper is The Lord Iesus the same night that he was betrayed tooke bread and when he had giuen thanks he brake it and saide Take eate this is my body which is broken for you this doe ye in remembrance of me After the same maner also he tooke the cuppe when he had supped saying this cup is the new Testamēt in my blood this do as oft as ye drinke it in remembrance of me 1. Cor. 11. That this word of Institution doth edifie it is manifest for it teacheth vs first who did institute the holy Supper The Lord Iesus Secondly at vvhat time The same night that he was betrayed Thirdly vvhat the Elements are in the holy Supper Bread and wine Fourthly what our Sauiour Christ did Hee gaue thankes he brake the bread c. Fifthly what the Lorde Iesus saide when hee deliuered the Elements Take eate c. Doeth this maintaine charming Is there not edifying in this If you be not voyde of grace be ashamed and sorie for your blasphemous levvdnes An other particuler vvhich you reache vnto vs is a bird of the same feather viz. that the vvorde barely read and to no other purpose then to edifie by reading is not holsome doctrine For proofe of this grosse and blasphemous errour you vse three reasons The first is out of S. Paul to Timothee The time will come when they will not suffer holsome doctrine but hauing their eares itching shall after their owne lustes get them an heape of teachers 2. Tim. 4.3 Therefore the vvord barely read and to no other purpose then to edifie by reading is no holsome doctrine This reason cleaues together like a broken potsheard I denie your argument The Apostle in that Chapter commaundeth Timothee to attende carefully vpon preaching c. His reason is Many will loath and hate holsome doctrine they will chuse such teachers as wil tickle their eares and feede their humours 2. Tim. 4.3 Such gracelesse people were in the time of Esay and Micheas Esa 30. Mich. 2. Such were they of Anathoth in Ieremies time Ier. 11. Such a one was Amaziah of Ieroboams Court in Amos time Am. 7. Such were in the Churches of Corinth and Galatia in S. Pauls time Such are they of the fantasticall crewe in our time vvhich pike out teachers as rot out of an apple c. Doe you not perceiue M. Penry howe fitly saint Paul to Timothee doeth serue your turne you haue bene verie bold with him You haue vsed the holy Apostle as Cacus did Hercules oxen therefore I may not thinke much that my writings are depraued by you Your second reason is this the summe of Christes sermon pronounced by a Popish priest either without or within the booke in his darke Latin is not an edifying worde therefore the word barely read and to no other purpose then to edifie by reading is not holsome doctrine Your Antecedent might haue bene kept in No man denieth it It is confessed by all of the religion that the scriptures deliuered in an vnknowen tongue doe not edifie The Apostle proueth this notably 1. Cor. 14. In linguis quas non intelligimus surdi sumus Cic. in Tusc that is when vve heare a strange language vve are as deafe men But I denie your Argument it is as strange as the Popish priests latine is darke Euery childe may see the weakenes of it But I must

page 84. They amongst vs which are vnbaptized doe sinne grienously if they doe not present themselues to baptisme Chap. 8. page 88. They which are once baptized must not be baptized againe Chap. 19. page 156. They which were baptized of Popish priestes in the Popish Church receiued true baptisme c. chap 7. page 79. and chap. 8. page 88 89. and chap. 20. page 156. 157. The false profession of Christ in popery doth not proue that the true Christ is not in popish baptisme cap. 23. pa. 174. Whether infants ought rather to be kept vnbaptized then to be presented to popish baptisme chap. 23. page 180. The infāts of papists may be baptized in a reformed church if some of the religion do present them to baptisme do vndertake the godly education of them cha 17. pag. 150. There hath bene may be true baptisme out of the church chap. 21. page 158. Though true baptisme was amōgst the Donatists out of the Church August did not giue leaue to any of the church to presēt their infāts to be baptized there cap. 21. pa. 159. They are the Sacraments of Baptisme and the holy Supper which are administred by vnpreaching ministers in the church of England chap. 8. page 88. 89. 95. 98. None vnbaptized may receiue the holy supper chap. 8. page 90. 91. 92. It is lawful to administer the holy supper in a priuate house if some cautions be obserued chap. 15. page 141. 142. Euery legall vncleannes was not ioyned with sinne chap. 9. page 113. The regenerate cannot fulfil the law of God cha 26. pa. 199 A TABLE OF DIVERS grosse errours and Anabaptisticall fancies conteined in M. Penryes Treatise c. Master Penry saith That the life of the Magistracie is neither prescribed in the worde for so there could be no Magistrates out of the Church nor any in the Church but such as are prescribed in the word which were impious to thinke nor conteined in the gifts of the Magistracie nor yet separated from his outwarde calling For the very outward calling is it that giueth life vnto the Magistracie though the person susteining it want gifts to discharge the same The reason hereof is euident because the Magistracie being an humaine constitution as the holy Ghost saith 1. Pet. 2.13 is appropriated vnto his possession vpō whomsoeuer man bestoweth the same if hee be capable to possesse though vnfit to execute what is a lotted vnto him In his addition page 48. This speach of M. Penryes is very grosse His first reason is this there may be Magistrates out of the Church therefore the life of the Magistracie is not prescribed in the word M. P. Antecedent is true For Pharao Nero Iulian were magistrates out of the Church I deny his argument My reason is the gifts of courage fearing God dealing truly hating couetousnes which are the life of the Magistrate are prescribed in Gods booke Exo. 18.21 Deu. 1.13 If you say they are not the life of the magistracie you dissent from all the learned and therfore must set downe what God requireth of him that should be his Magistrate His second reason is this There are and may be magistrates within the Church which are not garnished with the aboue named gifts therefore the life of the Magistracie is not prescribed in the word My answere is I confesse that absurd Magistrates haue bene and are many times aduanced in the Church I graunt they should not either by the corruption or errour of the electours But I deny your argument My reason is It is great wickednes to thinke because grosse Electours preferre vnfit men and so faile in their duetie that Almightie God hath failed in prescribing what kinde of men he would haue to be his lieutenants M. Penry addeth that the life of the Magistracie is not conteined in the gifts of the magistracie I dissent from him in this If he had said that the birth of the magistracie is not conteined in the gifts of the magistracie he had hit the white M. Penry writeth that the life of the magistracie is not separated from his outward calling for the very outward calling saith he is it that giueth life vnto the magistracie If this were true then the life and birth of the magistrate are idem tempore that is twinnes and consequently whosoeuer hath the outwarde calling which is the birth hath the inwarde calling which is the life of the magistrate So is Gods furniture tyed to the electours voices as to the chaire and the inward outward calling of the magistrate confounded which is a palpable errour If there bee an outward calling to the magistracie without the which no man howsoeuer furnished within may presume to execute the office of the magistrate I am sure there is an inward calling to the magistracie For the outwarde calling doeth import an inward If there be an inward calling which is by God himselfe what I beseech you is it but such furniture and gifts as are prescribed and required in the holy word The foundation whereupon M. Penry hath built his former absurdities is a very rotten post that is a grosse deprauing of a text of Scripture viz. The Magistracie is an humaine ordinance 1. Pet. 2.13 that is a deuise of man and not an Ecclesiasticall constitution prescribed in the worde That the magistracie is not any deuise of man but Gods ordinance for the benefite of man is a cleare trueth in Gods booke None doubt of it vnlesse they be Anabaptists or extremely ignorant M. Penry saith that the word barely read and to no other purpose then to edifie by reading is not holsome doctrine Chap. 8. pag. 99. This is a blasphemous absurditie M. Penryes reasons for it are most absurd and childish I referre you to my answere Chap. 8. pag. 100. 101. and to a proposition which I haue handled Chap. 4. pag. 62. c. M. Penry writeth that it is false to say that the recitall of the summe of Christes Sermon that is the word of institution c. is an edifying word he saith it mainteyneth charming Chap. 8. pag. 88. 89. This is a blasphemous absurditie If euery part of the Canonical Scripture doth edifie I trust the summe of the Lord Iesus Sermon ought to haue singuler allowance If it ought to haue singuler allowance it may not be indited and arraigned for maintenance of charming M. Penry saith that the people cannot sanctifie a Sabboth without a Sermon His words are these They are no ministers whose flocks by their ministery can not sanctifie the Sabboth our Readers are such c. In his addition pag. 60. M. Penry accounteth the publique reading of the holy Scripture and publique prayers no part of the sanctification of the Sabboth If he had said that the Sabboth is not so well sanctified without as with a godly Sermon I woulde haue agreed vnto him M. Penry maketh the person to giue credite to the holy word His wordes are these The word of God vttered is not an

ignorant men which are not acquainted with Gods booke be kept and thrust out of the holy ministerie vnlesse they will be partakers of great sinnes and consequently of great plagues A sufficient teacher is a rare blessing for he setteth the Lords plough forward and is Gods hand to deliuer heauenly treasures If good care shall be had by our Prince our Bishops our Patrons to goe on in aduancing and making choise of such both gouernors and pastors Gods religion Church Vniuersities will flourish more notably and consequently Gods glory our gracious Prince shall be more soundly honoured the people of the land shall be singularly encouraged to serue God to fight for the religion for their Prince for their countrey against any either forraine or home enemie and Gods fauour and blessings shall be multiplied vpon our Queene vpon vs and vpon our posteritie Almightie God will accept this at our hands for great thankfulnes for his late mercy in preseruing the English both fleet and nation and amazing dispersing the popish fleet by his mighty hand This gracious and notable fauour of God hath danted Gods our enemies in al popish kingdomes and churches and hath put life into Gods seruants in all nations Churches that professe the religion The Lord for his Christes sake graunt that we may be reuerently mindfull of and humbly thankfull to his maiestie for this deliuerance And that as in the time of danger we vsed the 83. and 68. psalmes to entreate Gods fauour so we may euer sing the 124. and 46. psalmes to publish Gods mercie and to testifie our thankfulnes for this gracious conquest CHAP. 3. ALMIGHTIE GOD NEVER called any to Magistracie but hee furnished them accordingly THe Egyptians were harde masters to the Israelites They kept them very short in Egypt When almighty God would blesse the Israelites with freedom and gouernment he furnished Moses notably for that excellent seruice He gaue him singuler wisedome courage c. If he had not Moses had bene vtterly vnfit for such a famous match Moses complained vnto the Lorde that hee alone was not able to gouerne the Israelites Almightie God for the ease of Moses appointed 70. Elders of Israel to help in that gouernment That those Ancients might cary thēselues profitably in that charge the Lord did garnish them accordingly Num. 11. Moses before his death desired the Lorde to appoint one to succeede him in the gouernment that the Israelites might not be as sheepe without a shepheard Num. 27. Gods pleasure was that Iosua should be the man Deut. 34. He did so assist and furnish him with the feare of God with the spirit of wisedome courage c. that he became very famous in peace in warre at and after his dying day The Church common wealth of the Israelites decayed greatly were at a low ebbe in king Sauls time That both Church and cōmon wealth might be reuiued the Lord aduanced his seruant Dauid to the kingdome He did beautifie him with extraordinary graces as with precious Diamonds Dauid was very religious very wise very valiant very religious for hee brought home the Lordes Arke very wise for his royal throne was a seate of Iustice very valiant for he vanquished many enemies Salomō succeeded his father Dauid in the gouernment of the Israelites That he might cary himselfe accordingly in that great charge he desired and obtained at Gods hands a wise and vnderstanding heart 1. King 3. Shebna was a great officer in Ezechias Court His course was cunning and dangerous to the common wealth of Iuda Almightie God coulde not beare him therefore sent a notable vengeance vpon him In his steade Eliakim was appointed vnder the King of Iuda A man singularly furnished by the Lord for he was a father of the inhabitants of Ierusalem and of the house of Iuda Esay 22. Ioseph was aduanced in Egypt Nehemias in Persia Daniel in Chaldea They dealt excellently in their gouernment for almightie God did notable furnish them Gedeon was a very meane man he attended on the flaile In his time the Madianites were heauie to the Israelites 7. yeeres That the Lord might deliuer his people from the tyrannie of the Madianites he furnished Gedeon for that seruice in extraordinary sort Iudg. 6. and 7. chap. There were in Gedeon which ought to be in euery Captaine both by sea and land Scientia rei militaris virtus authoritas faelicitas Cic. pro lege Manil. That is skil in warlike affaires vertue authoritie felicitie They which are inwardly called to the Magistracie are such as are furnished by the Lord with good parts for that weighty function They are not brambles as Abimelech was nor sots as Maximinus was nor fooles as Candaules was They are vine figge oliue trees as Dauid Ezechias Iosaphat Constantinus were These are such Magistrates in whom God delighteth and which are best welcome to Gods people for they are rare ornaments both of Church and common wealth God increase the number of such in this lande that both Church and common wealth may shine continually as starres at home abroade c. to the glory of God the honour of the Prince the terrour of the enemie and the comfort of the English nation CHAP. 4. THE READING OF THE holy Scripture doth edifie MOses commaunded the Priests in this sort c. When all Israel shall come to appeare before the Lord thy God in the place which he shall chuse thou shalt reade this lawe before all Israel that they may heare it Gather the people together men and women and children and thy stranger that is within thy gates that they may heare and that they may learne and feare the Lord your God and keepe and obserue all the wordes of this law And that their children which haue not knowen it may heare it and learne to feare the Lord your God c. Deut. 31. I gather my argument out of this place thus By reading of the lawe of God the Israelites did learne and feare God therefore they were edified If you reply that all the Israelites did not profite by this reading I answere no more did all profit by the preaching of the Prophets of Christ and the Apostles The fault was not in the seed but in the ground Vnlesse Gods spirit touch our hearts as the worde doeth pearce our eares Gods truth either read or preached is a shut booke and as a sealed letter vnto vs. When hee shall sit vpon the throne of his kingdome then shall he write him this lawe repeated in a booke by the Priests of the Leuites And it shall be with him and he shall reade therein all dayes of his life that hee may learne to feare the Lorde his God and to keepe all the woordes of this lawe and these ordinances for to doe them That his heart be not lifted vp aboue his brethren and that hee turne not from the commandement to the right hand or to the left but that he may prolong his dayes in his

mysterie frō common banquets lest it should be mingled with them The same M. Caluine a litle after hath these words Coeterum diligenter cauendum esse fateor ne qua obrepat superstitio ne spes salutis externo Symbolo affigatur c. That is diligent care must be had that no superstition creepe in and that no hope of saluation be tied to the externall signe c. Epist. 363. Of this iudgement is Peter Martyr in his Commentarie vpon the 10. chap. ad Cor. Fol. 143. Chemnicius writeth that it is an absurde thing to tie the holy Supper to peculiar places Ad substantiam Sacramenti sicut non pertinet circumstantia temporis ita nec circumstantia loci tanquā necessaria requiritur Chemn in 2. parte exam con Trid. That is as the circumstance of the time is not necessarily required to the substance of a Sacrament so neither the circumstance of place I rest in the iudgement of these excellent men If you dissent from mee I pray you condemne these learned writers but not before you haue confuted their reasons CHAP. 16. I. Penry THus M. Some I haue runne therowe those pointes in your booke that concerned me I haue bene driuen to deale brieflyer therin then I had determined But I am enforced to ende to omit that which page 9. I promised to handle in the latter ende with diuers other things I haue not the like libertie for Printing that you M. Some doe enioy Procure me but the fauour to be iudicially heard according to the word and I will personally vpon the perill of my life by the Lords assistance defend these two points against all gainesayers I am sory that you whom I reuerence should be the instrument to oppugne a trueth The Lorde respect the cause of his owne glory and pardon our sinne Amen R. Some You haue runne your selfe out of breath You had dealt more wisely if you had gone with lesse haste and better speede Sat citò si sat bene The breuitie which you giue out you are driuen to is dignum patella operculum a fit garment to couer your absurde writings You haue not you say such libertie of printing as I. No reason you should You broche and print grosse errours and Anabaptistical fancies so do not I. You refuse to offer submit your writings to the view and allowance of the Magistrates so do not I. You would haue me procure you Iudicial hearing c. Your request is not equall Nec te noui nec vbi sis Speake for your selfe in Gods Name so will I if you will reuoke your errours and heresies Otherwise I will not open my lippe for you or any such as you are After leaue obteined you will appeare you say though it cost you your life and deale in Argument c. Oh noble Goliath Doe you challenge all gainesayers so did the Donatists in Augustines time Aug. contra Don. post Coll. so did Photinus a grosse heretike in Basils time Sozom. lib. 4. cap. 6. so did Popish Campian in our time Alas good M. Penry you are vtterly vnfit for such a match This heate of yours is like a blaze of thornes It will last but a while Your cause is naught your armour is not of proofe Your Diuinitie is at a low ebbe Your Arguments are pitifull your answeres are silly There is no hope of preuailing The Donatists Photinus and Campian presumed of a glorious victorie but they were learnedly confuted The Donatists by Augustine Photinus by Basill of Ancyra Campian by some of our learned men Besides their garland was poena perfidiae non corona fidei I would be sory your garland shoulde be of such floures The best conquest that you can haue is to ouercome your pride by humilitie and your ignorance by godly studie 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Eurip. in Hippol. Excellēt men haue their second thoughts wiser then their first Non vincimur quum meliora nobis offerūtur sed instruimur Cipr. ad Qu. fratrem It is no disgrace to yeeld to better things You are sory that I whom you reuerence should be an instrument to oppugne a trueth Be sory for your selfe Detest your fancies Your reuerēce I make very meane accompt of You are the first that euer charged me in writing to oppugne Gods trueth I am very farre I thanke God from that great sinne Gods trueth I trust is as deare to me as to you I hope it hath had and shall haue more defence by me then by you there is some reason it should You misliked my last Treatise if this booke finde the like grace at your hands I must and will beare it To your prayer that the Lord would respect the cause of his owne glory and pardon our sinnes I say withall my heart Amen I haue now thanks be to God passed thorow your booke I haue not runne but walked a foote pace thorowe it Your absurdities I confesse are brambles but they haue not pricked me I would some others tooke no more hurt by them If my Treatise shall doe either you or any of your followers good I will be glad If not I say with the holy Apostle If any man be ignorant let him be ignorant 1. Cor. 14.38 Non habet Dei charitatem qui Ecclesiae non diligit vnitatem Aug. de baptis contra Don. lib. 3. cap. 16. CHAP. 17. IT hath pleased M. Penry to take some paines in prouing that Popish Priestes are no lawfull and good ministers of God that is that they haue no lawfull calling In this hee fighteth with his shadow for he hath not any of the religion his aduersarie I mislike the Popish priesthoode and sacrifice as much as he and if occasion require vvill set dovvne sure reasons to shake them both in pieces That vvhich I holde in this controuersie is that Popish priestes haue a calling though a faultie one If M. Penry wil improue that he must take penne in hand and begin a fresh for as yet he hath not encountred with that particuler If he can preuaile in that the famous writings of Caluine Beza c. and the resolution of all the reformed Churches in which I rest for this point shal be condemned and M. Penry shall haue the garland Because I purpose to passe so briefly as I can thorow his Treatise of the Popish priests I will handle first certaine propositions which are incident to that discourse The Popish Church is a Church though not a sound Church 1. The Pope is Antichrist therefore the Church of Rome is a Church No Protestant doubteth of the antecedent c. I proue my argument thus Antichrist shall sit in the Temple of God 2. Thess 2.4 Per Templum Dei Ecclesia per sessionem regnum intelligitur Musc 2. Thess 2.4 that is by the Temple of God the Church by sitting a kingdome is vnderstanded Viretus a man of excellent learning writeth thus of the popish Church Non dum eò vsque degenerauit prolapsa est