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A02483 An ansvvere to a treatise vvritten by Dr. Carier, by way of a letter to his Maiestie vvherein he layeth downe sundry politike considerations; by which hee pretendeth himselfe was moued, and endeuoureth to moue others to be reconciled to the Church of Rome, and imbrace that religion, which he calleth catholike. By George Hakewil, Doctour of Diuinity, and chapleine to the Prince his Highnesse. Hakewill, George, 1578-1649.; Carier, Benjamin, 1566-1614. Treatise written by Mr. Doctour Carier.; Carier, Benjamin, 1566-1614. Copy of a letter, written by M. Doctor Carier beyond seas, to some particular friends in England. 1616 (1616) STC 12610; ESTC S103612 283,628 378

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beene in the Easterne Church hee being worse then an Infidell that prouideth not for those of his owne houshold To conclude wee neither speake nor write against lawfull Vowes but the rashnesse of them and impossibilitie in performing them Not against true Virginity but the fained shew of it and the preferring it by so many degrees before the honourable estate of mariage Not against necessary Pouertie but the voluntarie choise of it when more good may be done by possessing and vsing those meanes God hath sent vs Not against Fasting but the pharesaicall vse of it and making it part of diuine worship Not against Praying but the performance of it in a strange tongue rather for custome then for conscience rather by number then by weight in drawing neere vnto God with our lippes when our hearts are farre from him Not against Watching but the pretended apish imitation and merit in it Not against Obedience but the abuse of it in the enterprising of damnable and desperate attempts Lastly not against austeritie of life but inciuilitie and that shew of wisedome which S. Paul censureth in the second to the Col. Consisting in voluntary Religion and humblenesse of minde and not sparing the bodie You doe well to adde that all these are required in a Monasticall conuersation but how they were or are performed God knowes and the world not vndeseruedly suspects B. C. 26. Vpon these conditions the Lords the Commons and the Clergie were content to beleeue that the King was Supreme head of the Church of England Not that they did thinke so indeed or that they desired to augment his authoritie but that they might bee protected by him freely enioy those commodities which they thought schisme had brought vnto them and feared the vnity of the Church might againe take from them Hence did arise a necessitie of inueighing against the Pope and the Church of Rome as against Antichrist and Babylon and the greatest enemies of the State of England Insomuch that that Clergie man was most acceptable to them and in their opinion most worthy of preferments that could most confidently preach and write the most foule and monstrous assertions of the Pope and the Church of Rome though they were neuer so false These and such like are those temporall respects which would faine seeme the daughters of those doctrines which themselues haue brought foorth and to be diuided from the Catholike Church by doctrine when they themselues haue caused the doctrine of diuision G. H. 26. Vpon these conditions you say that the Lords and Commons and Clergie were content to beleeue that the King was supreame head of the Church of England whereas your selfe before confesse that these conditions were afterward graunted to the Clergie who notwithstanding were the forwardest in perswading the King to accept and assume that title as may appeare by the booke set out by the whole Conuocation of England intituled The Institution of a Christian man besides the Treatises of diuers particular Bishops to the same purpose as namely Stephen Gardiners discourse of true obedience together with Bonners Preface annexed to it Longelands Sermon and Tunstals Letter to Cardinall Poole all which are extant to be reade and seene at this day and surely he that shall obserue their vehement protestations specially of Gardiner whom I hold the most sufficient among them for learning and withall the soundnesse and weight of the reasons which they enforce against the Popes pretended iurisdiction will easily beleeue that they thought in very deede as they wrote that their minds and their pennes concurred in one But from hence you say arose a necessitie of enuying against the Pope and the Church of Rome as against Antichrist and Babylon as if his Holinesse had neuer beene graced with the title of Antichrist before Henry assumed his title of supreame head nor Rome called Babylon before England was freed from that Babylonish captiuity Whereas your famous Cardinall hath none other proofe from Scripture that S. Peter was euer at Rome but by expounding Rome to be the Babylon from whence he dated his first Epistle And when the seuerall markes of Antichrist shall be applied to any so properly as to the Bishop of Rome I will confesse he is iniuriously so styled in the meane time I can hardly imagine any so foule and monstrous assertions which some of your Popes haue not deserued euen by the confession of your owne Writers it being enough to make a modest man blush in reading and relating that which they blushed not to act nay boasted of being acted in so much as I doubt not but I may confidently affirme that neither the Catalogue of Emperours taking in the Heathenish among the Christians nor any one succession of Kings in the world since the first creation of it to this present age euer afforded so many monsters of men so many incarnate deuils so expert in all kind of villanies as that of your Popes neither can any one King or Emperour be named whom some of your Popes haue not out-stripped And what needed then any imitation of your side in faining false assertions where true were so plentifull B. C. 27. In all these and all other doctrine of diuision men haue receiued great countenance and encouragement from Geneua For although M. Iohn Caluin were neuer any good subiect or friend to Bishop Duke or King yet hee did so fit the common people with new doctrine that no Gospel can be so pleasing to them nor so light some as his for finding Geneua to be fallen out both with their Bishop who was their ancient Prince and their Duke to whom they pretended against their Bishop and to bee all in a combustion amongst themselues for want of gouernment although he were then a stranger and a very young man of some sixe and twenty or seuen and twenty yeeres olde at the most yet he thought good vpon the opportunity to giue the venture and to step in himselfe to be founder of a new Church and state amongst them And for that purpose hee found them such a Catechisme as they might easily contemne all ancient learning and authority and saue themselues by a strong fancie which hee called faith And this pleased the Bourgers of Geneua so well that they called a meeting and caused all the Citizens to sweare that that Catechisme was true and all Popery false as may appeare in Caluins life written by Beza and prefixed to his Epistles And although the ministeriall Presbitery of Geneua haue lost much of M. Caluins greatnesse yet the Citie hath had the fortune euer since by the helpe of their neighbours to hold out against their Bishop and the Duke and all their ancient gouernours G. H. 27. You passe on in this Section and the next to passe your censure vpon Geneua and Caluin in as much as from them wee haue receiued great countenance and encouragement whereas neither Geneua nor Caluin were
his Arguments sometimes beyond the extent of the Letter such extrauagant matters as he drawes in vpon the bye I thought it sufficient to reply vnto in my marginall notes so that in one of the two nothing I thinke worth the answering hath escaped vnanswered and I shall craue that curtesie of the Reader if he receiue not satisfaction in the one to haue recourse to the other and this I take to bee faire and iust dealing without exception once I am sure I haue dealt with him as my selfe in like case should desire to be dealt withall which I take to bee the safest rule of iust dealing Surely a matter it is of little labour and credite but lesse honestie to deale as Fitz-Simon hath done with Mr. Mason whose learned and painfull booke of the lawfull Consecration of our Bishops he pretends he read ouer and confuted in 15. dayes but his chiefe confutation as may ea●ily appeare to the Reader stands in denying acts vouched out of the publike Register or as Eudaemon the common packehorse of Rome hath lately dealt with my Lord of Salisburie answering his Antilogie a booke of about 60. sheetes full of varietie of learning and ●uident proofe with a Libel of some three or foure sheets at most which he hath also rather stained with rayling at persons and catching at words then made offer to answere so much as one materiall point and to speake a trueth I haue good reason to thinke he rather wrote it that the title might be seen● in the common Catalogue then that the Booke it selfe might commonly bee read in regarde that the worke is so slender and the copies so few that as it is scarce to be had so is it scarce worth the reading being had himselfe professeth that he wrote it Ne magni aliquid latere in ●o libro putarent quē nemo confutasset Lest men should thinke some great matter lay hidden in that booke which no man had confuted but hee that shall compare both may well say notwithstanding his answere that no man hath yet confuted it Somewhat more wisely and warily hath he dealt with Casaubons Exercitations answering onely the fourth chapter of his first Exercitation and promising a whole volume to follow after against the rest in imitation belike of Richard Stanihurst who hath published his flourish to a future combate with his Nephew Mr. Dr. VSher but I thinke wee shall see the full encounters both of the one and the other by leasure Pollicitis diues quilibet esse potest but Tarda solet magnis rebus inesse fides An easie matter it is to promise great matters but not so easie to performe them being promised For mine owne part I must confesse I haue made a larger answere then either the treatise answered deserued or the state of my bodie and my leisure being to make so often returnes from a remote part of the Kingdome to mine attendance in Court could well permit or indeed my selfe at first proiected but I haue now found it true in mine owne experience which I haue often heard obserued by others to fall out many times in writing as it doth in building many alterations and additions present themselues besides and beyond the first designe It was written of Fame but it may as truely be said of this kind of writing Vires acquirit ●undo It gathers strength in going as in eating a man sometimes gets a stomack which was the reason together with an expectation that either some more able pen would haue vndertaken this encounter or some matter of greater importance promised by the Author himselfe and Pelitier would ere this haue beene published to the world that mine answere hath beene differred till now but if it be well enough it is soone enough how well it is let the reader iudge whom notwithstanding I shall desire to suspend his iudgement till hee haue heard both parties speake which request mee thinkes is but reasonable considering I haue dealt so fauourably with the aduerse party as to set downe all at full that hee could say for himselfe With whom if I deale in mine answering as if hee were still aliue it is to bee ascribed to himselfe who in the conclusion of his Letter professeth hee sent his soule therein neither is that I haue done herein without example of those by whose greatnesse if need were small faults might be countenanced it is I hope sufficient that I neither intend thereby to wrong the dead or deceiue the liuing Neither let it bee thought blameable that being by profession a diuine I haue medled so much in matters of state it was rather out of the necessitie of the arguments to bee replied vnto then any desire or disposition of mine owne farther then to make it appeare to the world that the Religion by vs professed is more sutable to the preseruation of the ciuill power and in speciall the forme of policie established among vs then that religion which dares accuse ours of the contrary of which I may truely say that in the termes it now stands it doth not so much vphold temporall policie as it is vpheld by it and yet like the iuie which riseth by clasping the oake hath it at length ouertopt the oake of Soueraigneti● it selfe whereas on the other side ours hath hitherto had none other supports but the meere euidence of trueth and diuine assistance and so according to that receiued principle of nature being still nourished by the same meanes as it was first bredde it makes vs confident that it will both grow the better and last the longer Thus commending thee to Gods grace the worke to thy charitable censure and my selfe to thy Christian prayers I rest Thine in our Common SAVIOVR George Hakewil ❧ The Publishers Preface to the Reader before Dr. CARIERS Booke HAuing exactly perused good Reader this Treatise here presented to thy view and finding it both in stuffe and stile to be learnedly and eloquently contriued I tooke my selfe in some sort obliged in Christian duty to divulge it in print to the world vnwittingly I confesse to the Author howbeit encroaching vpon his charitable consent who I am well assured is most forward to defray his talent in ought wherein the Catholike Romane religion may be aduanced Of this firme and full resolution he hath made effectiue proofe not onely in words but also in workes The Author as it is notoriously knowen hath gained name and fame among the Protestants hauing beene a Teacher in their Colledges a Preacher in their Pulpits a Doctor in their Schooles a Canon in their Churches Chaplaine to the King his most excellent Maiestie flowing in wealth supported with the credit of the Court most likely in short time to aspire to higher Ecclesiasticall preferments had hee persisted in the course of his former profession Yet notwithstanding all these worldly allurements which are in good sooth wondrous inticing baites to hooke and to hold an vnstayed soule Mr. Doctor
fire her Nauie and with three thousand Spaniards● subdue Ireland to the Spanish dominion These and many other sufficient reasons to prouoke her we find recorded by Hieronimus Catena in the life of Pius Quintus who was Secretarie to Cardinall Alexandrin that Popes Nephew so that though he haue in that discourse discouered many things to the world of Pius his proceedings against that Queene before vnknowen to our English yet may wee well by reason of his place afforde him credite as also in regarde his booke was Printed and published in Rome it selfe with the Priuiledge and approbation of Sixtus Quintus next Successor to Pius saue one And had she not good reason then to suffer such Lawes to bee made by her Parliament as might crie quittance with the Pope and Church of Rome Yet I will bee bold to say that lesse innocent blood nay lesse blood was shed in her 44. yeeres in maintenance of Christs and her owne authoritie against the vsurpation of the Pope then in her sisters foure yeeres in maintenance of the Popes vsurpation against her owne and her Successours lawfull authority insomuch as an Italian and hee no Protestant as I guesse giues this testimonie of her Tanta extitit eius animi moderatio atque innata clementia vt non immerito c. So great and so apparant was the moderation of her minde and inbred clemēcie that not vndeseruedly it may be said of her which the ancient histories haue left to posteritie of Alexander Seuerus borne of his mother Mammaea Nempe Anaematon hoc est citra sanguinem namely that shee hath gouerned her kingdome without bloodshed Cum suapte natura semper à caedibus crudelitate abhorreat for euen her nature doth abhorre the thought of slaughter or crueltie so he goeth on in a large discourse of her praise And when he thus wrote she had reigned twenty yeres it being a maruell as the late Bishop of Lincolne in his answere to Parsons hath well obserued their Index expurgatorius had not scowred him ere this and for this nay their owne Priests shall speake for Queene Elizabeths Lawes who say that considering Iesuiticall practises shadowed vnder the cloake of Religion all the Lawes enacted against Catholikes were made with great moderation and clemencie as comming from a Prince most milde and mercifull nor haue they cause to vrge repeale of any Statute made so long as Iesuits take such courses Nay which is more Parsons himselfe in the Preface to the first part of his triple conuersion commendeth Queene Elizabeth for her moderate gouernment and that was in the last yeere of her reigne and yet by the way it is worth the noting that in one and the same leafe hauing so commended her in one page mary then she was aliue in the very next page for then he heard shee was dead in a Preface to his Maiestie he compares her to Dioclesian for crueltie whereas her sobrietie and clemencie was such that her brother King Edward was wont commonly to call her His sweete sister Temperance neither did shee euer heare of any capitall punishment though neuer so deserued vpon offenders euen of such as had sought her own death but it bred a kind of horror and sadnesse in her whereby had not her Counsellers earnestly inculcated the necessitie of some exemplary iustice many dangerous attempters had escaped due punishment which mooued her to say being once questioning with a great Diuine in Oxford about books meetest for Princes to studie on that her reading of Senecade Clementia had done her much good but some would perswade her it had done her State as much harme howsoeuer I will shut vp this point with S. Augustine when he was intreated to mediate for a mittigation of some strait Lawes if Princes serue Christ in making Lawes for Christ they doe what they ought I will not gaine say them and your selfe graunt that this course seemed in poli●ie necessary for her who was the daughter of King Henry the VIII by Anne Bulleine borne with the contempt of Rome the disgrace of Spaine and the preiudice of Scotland and it is true indeede that it both seemed and was a necessary course for her not onely in policie but in pietie who was the daughter of him who vpon iust reason vnhorsed the Pope of his pretended authoritie by her who was not onely a zealous professour but a Patronesse of that trueth which wee professe and for her birth with the contempt of Rome and disgrace of Spaine it seemed by her courses shee was not vnwilling to haue it so int●rpreted but for the preiudice of Scotland shee was vpon all occasions so farre as shee conceiued it stood with her safetie and honour most willing to expresse the contrary and surely by her liuing and dying in a single State without marriage she rather prepared a way to the furtherance of that Title which wee now see to our great comfort as she would also no doubt to hers Si quis modo sensus in vmbris if there were any feeling or knowledge in the dead of these temporall and transitory affaires seeing it is fallen out to bee as true in that succession as it is in its owne nature strange Mira cano Sol occubuit nox nulla sequuta est B. C. 33. But now that your Maiestie is by the consent of all sides come to the Crowne and your vndoubted Title setled with long succession the case is very much altered for your Maiestie hath no need of dispensations nor will to pull downe Churches nor no dependance at all on Henry the VIII and if this Schisme could haue preuented your Title with the diuorce of one wife and the marrying of fiue more neither your mother nor your selfe should euer haue made Queene Elizabeth afraid with your Right to the Crowne of England and therefore though it were necessary in reason of State to continue the doctrine of diuision as long as the fruit of that doctrine did continue yet now the fruit of Schisme is all spent and that Parenthesis of State is at an end there is no reason but that the old sentence may returne againe and bee continued in that sense as if the Parenthesis had been cleane left out and that God had of purpose crossed the fleshly pretence of Schisme and raised your Maiestie to restore it as your most wise and Catholike progenitor King Henrie the VII did leaue it G. H. 33. If his Maiestie by the consent of all sides bee come to the Crowne why did Clement the VIII the yeere before his entrance and that as his Maiestie witnesseth in the Conclusion of his answere to Paulus Quintus his first Breue contrary to his manifold vowes and protestations at the same time and as it were with the same breath deliuered to diuers of his Maiesties Agents abroad send to Henry Garnet Iesuite their Arch-priest in England two Bulles to the contrary the one to the Clergie and the other
man of their owne side reiects it as a meere ●able for hee reports that hauing for the space of full seauen yeeres fought with diuers diseases and griefes yet was he therefore neuer a whit lesse diligent in his function nor absteined from continuall writing and at length died of the disease called the difficulty of breathing Nay Genebrard though farre from the ingenuitie of Thuanus and one that raileth most impotently vpon Caluin yet durst not charge him herewith and was ashamed to defile his Chronicle with such an impudent lie Fr. Iunius saith that hee was at Geneua then wen Caluin dyed yet neither saw nor heard nor knew nor perceiued any such thing nor so much as euer dreamed of any such matter In a word he was visited in his sickenesse by sundrie excellent personages by the Syndicks of the Citie by the Ministers by others all which are witnesses of the sickenesse whereof hee dyed And Theod. Beza who faithfully wrote his life and death whereof as he saith hee had beene a spectator sixteene yeeres together testifieth that in him was proposed vnto all a most excellent patterne of Christian both life and death which saith he is as easie to calumniate as it is hard to imitate These things considered I referre mee now vnto the Readers indifferencie whether is more worthy of credite the whole Citie of Geneua and so many notable men present at his sicknesse and death and testifying of his peaceable holy and Christian departure or one Hieron Bolseck a Knight of the poste twice banished thrice a runagate who of a Carmelite became a Physitian or rather a Quacksaluer a sworne enemie to Caluin one that had beene from Geneua more then ten yeeres together and had sold his pen vnto his Lords and friends to defame Caluin And thus much in defence of those men whom the Dr. termeth the Monsters of our age Now although the vnhappy end of some particular men be no demonstratiue proofe and scarce a coniecturall signe of the falshood of that religion which they professe and that Church in which they make their last end yet that it may appeare in requital of the Dr. or rather the Cardinal how vnhappily some zealous persecutors of such as haue forsaken fellowship with the Church of Rome haue ended their liues I could referre the Reader to a large Discourse touching that point toward the end of the second part of the Acts and Monuments and also in Hassenmullerus in the conclusion of his booke Neither can the like iust exception bee taken against their euidences as against that of Bolseck and Cochlaeus But I will content my selfe with the testimonie of Thuanus a professed member of that Church which Mr. Doctor cals Catholike yet such a one as besides his great paines and diligence in the search of trueth had singular meanes for the finding of it out himselfe being now President in the Court Parliament of Paris where his father had bin Premier President before him This man then testifies first of the Cardinall of S. Andrewes in Scotland who condemned George Wiseheart vnto the fire that standing at a window sumptuously set forth with cushions and hangings of silke to behold his execution George being exhorted when the fire began to burne to be of good courage This flame indeed answered hee is painefull to my bodie but it doth no whit dismay my minde but hee that now from aloft lookes downe so proudly vpon me as arrogantly as now he sits so ignominiously within these fewe dayes shall hee lie along which soone after came to passe for being miserably slaine his dead body was in the open sight of all laide along in the same window from whence he had so ioyfully beheld the burning of Wiseheart And so the euent saith Thuanus verified his Prophecie Iohn Roman a Monke and cruell persecutor inuented a new kind of torment for the persecuted he would draw vpon their legs boots full of hote boiling grease and then setting spurres vpon their heeles iestingly would demand of them whether they were not sufficiently appointed for their iourney But vnderstanding that a summons was granted out against him by the Parliament of Aix to answere for his cruelties and that by the commandement of Francis the I hee fled vnto Auinion where thinking himselfe safe from men yet hee escaped not saith Thuanus the vengeance of God For he was spoiled by his owne seruants of all that he had and brought to extreme pouertie his body also was so full of loathsome vlcers that oftentimes he wisht for death which yet he could not obtaine but after a long time and horrible torments Oppeda another bloody persecutor being called to answer for his more then barbarous cruelties in the Parliament of Paris by the appointment of the said King Francis scaped indeed that danger by the commendation of the Guise and together with his Collegues was restored vnto his former dignity neuerthelesse soone after he was striken with horrible paines in his entrailes wherewith he was a long time tormented and at length in the mids of most cruell torments breathed forth his cruell soule God saith Thuanus inflicting on him that iust punishment which the iudges exacted not which though it were long in comming yet fell the more heauily when it came Albaspineus when Protestants were brought forth to execution aduised to stop their mouthes that they might not speake vnto the people Not long after falling deepely in loue with a certaine woman he fel withal out of his wits and being strikē also with the lowzie disease he died in most grieuous torments his friends putting a bridle into his mouth to force him to receiue some sustenance which yet he frantikely refused hauing decreed to famish himselfe because of the vnsufferablenesse of his paines Ponsenatius another butcher being fallen into great debt hauing riotously wasted both his owne patrimony and his wiues dowry vpon conscience of his wicked life fell likewise mad whereupon despairing of his saluation being chained vp by his friends with lamentable shrikings and rending of himselfe hee finished his life in extreme pouerty Finally Cardinall Crescentius the Popes Agent in the Council of Trent hauing spent much of the night in writing letters to the Pope and at length rising from his chaire he seemed to see a dog which with huge iawes firie eyes and eares hanging downe to the ground furiously came towards him and by and by couched vnder the table then calling his seruants and light being brought when hee saw the dog no where appeare he was astonished at it and thereupon fell into many sad cogitations and so into sicknesse which he no sooner felt but presently hee despaired of life although his Physicians and friends gaue him good hope of recouery At last being caried from thence to Verona and euen at deaths dore he would often call vpon them that attended him to take heed of the dog and to keepe him from comming vpon his