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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A88157	An answer to nine arguments. Written by T. B. Wherein is plainly from the scriptures shewed, the weaknesse of his arguments, whereby he undertakes to prove both the Church and Ministry of England true; as likewise describing the nature and properties of a true Church and Ministry. Written long since by that faithfull servant of God and his countrey, John Lilburne Lieftenant [sic] Collonell: and now published for further good, by a well-willer to him and the truth.	Lilburne, John, 1614?-1657.	1645 (1645)	Wing L2081; Thomason E25_7; ESTC R212845	46,842	48

stripling with his sheepheards staffe and a company of smooth stones flung out of a slinge overcame and destroyed that mighty Giant who thought none so stronge as himselfe 1 Sam. 15. and justifieth an one are you and will prove to be for you fight for the spirituall Philistims the enemies of the Lord namely for Antichrist and his Kingdome and you send forth great bragges boastes against the truth of God amongst your ignorant acquaintance but indeed they are nothing but wind and chaffe not able to stand before the breath of Gods sacred truth which his weake servants for their conquering weapons make use of as I have already and shall more fully by the strength of God make it appeare in my following lines and therefore to confute your Argument and lay it even with the ground I will bring your owne Writers weapons who were members in the Church of England who doe not plead for Separation but for Reformation therein read but the Lincolne-shire Ministers Abridgment and Mr. Cartwrights Defence against Bishop Whiteguift sometime Pope of Lambeth and Dr. Ames his Fresh Suite against Humaine Ceremonies and you shall see your worship proved to be Antichristian and none of Christs but of the Divels invention Also read the Scots Dispute printed in Holland the last Summer and you shall see the greatest part of your worship and all your humaine Ceremonies with which you serve God proved to be Idols as your holy garments and your invented gestures of bowing and cringing and your kneling at the act of receiving the Sacrament c. Also read a litle Booke of Mr. Damfords sometime Minister of Colmanstreet in London against the Service And noble Dr. Bastwickes book called The Vanity and Impiety of the old Letany and you shall see the Wickednes Sinfulnes and Vngodlines of it set forth to the utmost for there it is proved to be an Idoll which as he there faith sends more soules to Hell in a yeare then all the prophanenesse deboystnesse wickednesse and ungodlynes in the Kingdome doth besides and that nothing could have been invented either by the Divell or the Pope for a greater meanes to pull downe the Kingdome of Christ and for the maintaining and building up the Kingdome of Antichrist and therefore I put you upon it to Answer their writings and confute the Arguments of your own Authors which have fully proved that your worship is no divine but humane worship and therefore not a true but a false worship Now if you should deny that your humaine invented diabollicall Booke of Common prayer and your sacred Ceremonies as your Lords and masters the Bishops cals them are not the worship with which you in the Church of England worship and serve God the Booke of Common prayer it selfe will confute you for there in the Preface before that Booke of devised Service and wicked mans invention they ascribe to the dumbe Ceremonies a Sacramentall naature and the very Office and worke of the spirit of God the doing of which makes them all to become Idols and all those Idolaters that use them or partake with them that doe it for there they say they are apt to stirre up the dull mind of man to the remembrance of his duty to God by some notable and speaciall signification whereby he might be edefied Also in the act of vniformity they themselves doe confesse that they are but of mans Invention and device and to worship God with mans devices and Inventions is odious and detestable unto him as before I have fully proved and therefore you in England have not the true Worship of God and so by your owne confession are not a true Church of Christ But now to answer your Argument which you bring to prove your Assumption which is this You have had those that have lived and dyed in the same Worship which you still have and have beene saved in it therefore it must needes be a true Worship This you say but doe not prove it in the least but still take that for granted which I deny which is that it doth not therefore follow because some in the Church of England have been saved that have used your Worship that therfore it is true Worship for then it would follow that the Worship in the Papistry which in some respects is more grosser then yours is a true Worship for you dare not deny it which if you doe you are not able to prove it that in the Papistry there hath not beene many people that have lived and died therein that have been saved for the Scripture doth declare that God hath a people there which he calls uppon to come out thence Rev. 18.4 for he ownes his Elect even in Spirituall Babilon yet for all this it doth not follow that their Worship is or ever was a true Worship though the Riches of the Grace and unfathomable Goodnes of the Kindnes and Love of God doth reach and extend so far as to save some that live and dy in that Worship as well as in the Worship of England yet I say it is as extraordinary a worke as the manifestation of Gods love to the Thiefe upon the Crosse was but for all that I will maintaine it that none of those that yeild and submit themselves unto your or their Worship cannot by the Scripture prove himselfe to be a visible Christian or a true beleever if they should be put by Gods people to prove it Joh. 14.21.23.24 15.8.14 Col. 15.19 to the end Eph 5.8 Col. 1.21 Tit. 1.16 2.14 1 Pet. 2 9. Heb 9.14 Jam. 2.17 18. 1 Joh. 3.8 2 Joh. 9. Rev. 13.8 14.1.4.9.10 19.20 Now from that which I have said I frame these Arguments 1 That Worship which is of the Divells and Antichrists Invention Institution setting up is no true divine Worship But the Worship of the Church of England is of the Divells Antichrists Invention Institution setting up as the forenamed Authors and the 13. Chap of the Rev. doth fully prove Ergo. The Worship in the Church of England is no true Morship 2. That Worship which is a main meanes cause of pulling downe the Kingdome of Jesus Christ establishing maintaining upholding of the Kingdome of the Devell Antichrist sends more Soules to Hell then all the wickednesse Impietie ungodlinesse in the Kingdome doth besides is no true Worship of God● but ought to be detested and abhorred of all his people But such is the Worship of the Church of England as worthy Dr. Bastwicke in the third part of his Letany doth prove Ergo. It is no true Worship but ought to be detested separated from by all Gods faithfull ones And thus much for the answering of your third fourth Arguments which you say are so strong and true that you say you need spend no more time in the proofe of them but indeed you are exceedingly mistaken for you have not in the least proved either of them as I have

and till you have proved it true all the paines that you have taken in proving that it is possible for corruptions and wicked livers to be in a true Ch. is spent in vaine and to no purpose and I am confident that you nor none else will ever be able to prove the Ch. of Eng. true nor any other Nationall Ch. for Jesus Christ by his death did abolish the National Church of the Jewes with all there Lawes rites and Ceremonies thereof and in the new Testament did never institute no nationall Ch. nor left no Lawe nor Officers for the governing thereof but the Church that he instituted are free and indedendant bodies or Congregations depending upon none but only upon Christ their Head Therefore nationall Churches under the Gospell are of Antichrists that man of sins institution and ordaining who only hath ordained Lawes and officers of his owne for the governing of them as I have sufficiently proved at large in my foresaid Answer to W. G. and but put the ease the Ch. of Eng. had been a true Ch. as it never was yet those abominable corruptions and most detestable grosse open notoriovs wickednes and prophanes would have utterly destroyed long ere this her Essence and Being and have made her utterly to have forfeited her Charter and have ceased to a true Ch. for if God threatned to unchurch the Ch. of Ephesus Rev. 2. and to take his heavenly state Charter and Candlesticke frow her for but forsakeing her first Love and the Gh. of Pergamus for having some in her that taught the Doctrin of Balam and the Ch. of Thiatira for suffering Jesabels doctrine to preached amonst them doe you think that he would haue spared the Ch. of Eng. to this day who for many hundred yeares even ever since her first constitution take her at her best hath been ten times worse then all these in which all manner of false doctrines have been manifestly maintained and preached and all kind of prophanes wickednes by her nembers practiced perpetrated Therefore for you or any other to say and affirme that this monsterous ugly botched and skabbed body is Christs true Spouse is dishonourable to his blessed Being and Mediatorship who gave himselfe for his Ch. that he might sanctifie and cleanse it with the washing of water by the Word that he might preserve it to himself a glorious Ch. not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing but that it should be holy and without blemish Ephes 5.26.27 for the name of this City is the Lord is there Ezr. 48.15 all the true Inhabitants of which are to be righteous as the servants and elect ones of the Lord Esa 60.21 65.2 but in the Ch. of Engl. he that is most acute in teaching false doctrine and setting up Antichrists wicked Kingdom climbes to the highest preferment and Church dignity as they call it witnes the prophane ignorant sottish athiesticall Bishops who are so voyde of understanding in the misteries of God and godlines that they dare not publikely dispute with the yonguest boy that doth oppose them though they have been challenged to it Also he that commits the most widkednes and ungodlynes is the best loved and respected and those that labour to oppose false doctrine and walke more holyer then others are the most hated despised and reejcted and this even in the bosome of your Church even by the Pillars and corner stones thereof witnes those late bloody barbarous and tyrannicall cutting of mens eares at the Pillory and whipping others at the Cart that even for conscience sake therefore doe you thinke or have you any ground to imagine that if ever your Ch. had been true but that these transcendant exceeding grosse vile corruptions would not have nullified destroy'd and annihilated her and ●●●e made Christ long ere now to have given her a Byll of Divorce as he did to ●…keslyding Israel and to have taken her Charter from her as he hath done from all those famous flourishing renouned Churches recorded in the New Testament It is true The Ch. of the Jewes had grosse mighty corruptions in her which was the height of her sin for which God severly plagud and punished her many times And what if she had such things in her that will not in the least defend the mighty corruptions in your Ch. seeing as I have proved it never was a true Ch. no nor never so long as she stands in that falfe Antichristian Nationall state as she doth but as for the Ch. of the Jewes it was a true Ch. unto whom God truly gave his Lawes Ordinances in the observation keeping of which she might have continued lovely amiable and beautifull in his eyes but yours hath not her Power Lawes and Ordinances from God but from the Divell Antich Rev. 13.2.4 It is true it was the sin of the Jewes to commit such grosse evils as they did and to suffer the offenders amongst them to goe unpunished contrary to their wholesome Lawes Gods own commaund who had ordained commanded them that the soule that committed such such evils should be out off destroyed from amongst the people as you may largely read in the 4. last Bookes of Moses because the Land as well as the people was an holy Land by virtue of Gods institution of it and setting it a part for himselfe as well as the people and therefore he would have had haynous transgressours to be destroyed or killed least the Land should be polluted desiled with their wickednes as he himselfe speakes now because they would not observe the Lawes Ordinances that he had given them though he suffered their manners long and bare much with their sin in that he fatherly chastised and corrected them againe againe before he utterly destroyed them and anhialated their nationall Ch. that so they might be left without excuse but seeing no Reformatton after so many corrections could not be had but their prophanations and grosse abominations were so great and continued in it caused him at the last utterly to renounce them and for ever put an end unto their nationall C. and Ceremoniall Law which was done at the death of Christ when he spake and said it is finished and now he will never any more returne againe unto them to become an husband as he was to the Nation of the Jewes though yet he hath as the Scriptures declare an elect remnant and company amongst them and at the end of their Nationall Church Jesus Christ the eternall Son of God by virtue of that power which he had received of and from his Father changed their Lawes Ordinances as the History of the Acts of the Apostles with the rest of the new Testament doth fully declare and he institued no nationall but particular Churches or Congregations many of which may be in one Countrey or nation all of them independant bodyes depending upon none but only upon Christ their head and withall