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A94140 To all, paupertatis ergò nè peream famè to some. gratitudinis ergò ne peream infamiâ whether it be better to turn Presbyterian, Romane, or, to continue what I am, catholique in matter of religion? By Thomas Swadlin, D.D. Swadlin, Thomas, 1600-1670. 1658 (1658) Wing S6229; Thomason E935_4; ESTC R207706 7,485 15

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To ALL Paupertatis ergò Nè peream famè To SOME Gratitudinis ergò Ne peream infamiâ WHETHER It be better to turn PRESBYTERIAN ROMANE Or to continue what I am CATHOLIQUE In Matter of RELIGION By Thomas Swadlin D. D. LONDON Printed for the Author and are to be sold by Michael Burges at the little North Doore of St. Pauls Church 1658. I. Whether Presbyterian IT is a Thriving way and I am poor the tentation therefore is strong but better enjoy peace of Conscience than the spoiles of violence I shall yet propose some cases of conscience and upon their true Resolves I shall either shake hands with him or continue what I am 1. Whether I do not believe That Christ taught his Apostles to pray and say Our Father which art in heaven 2. Whether I do not believe That the Apostles did pray and say as Christ taught them Our Father which art in heaven 3. Whether I have done well to expunge and obliterate that Prayer Our Father which art in heaven 4. Whether I do not believe That Christ sent his Apostles as his father sent him Joh. 20.21 5. Whether I do not believe That the Father sent Christ to be the chief Bishop of our Souls 1 Pet. 2.25 6. Whether I do not believe both these missions to be jure Divino 7. Whether I do not therefore believe Episcopacy to be Jure Divino 8. Whether I do not believe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to be a different word from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 9. Whether I do not believe Bishop to be the name of Office and dignity Presbyter to be a name of order and duty 10. Whether I do not believe Bishops are sometimes called Presbyters because they were Presbyters before they were Bishops 11. Whether I do not believe Presbyters qua Presbyters are never called Bishops 12. Whether I do not believe that St. Paul spake and did divinely when he constituted Timothy Bishop of Ephesus and Titus Bishop of Creete to over see and if need were to rebuke the Presbyters there 13. Whether I do not believe St. Ierome spake piously when he said Nisi exors quaedam ab omnibus eminens potestas Episcopo ducetur tot essent Schismata quot Sacerdotes That unlesse an extraordinary and peerlesse preheminence were given to the Bishop there would be as many Schisms as Priests 14. Whether I do not believe King Iames spake politickly and prudently when he said no Bishop no King 15. Whether I do not believe the Primitive Church and so the Church successively untill of very late years one century and lesse than an half was governed by Episcopacy 16. Whether therefore I do not believe I have done very ill to shoulder out Episcopacy that I might get into his Chair 17. Whether I do not believe That Thebulis and Aerius were therefore called Hereticks because they would have had an ecclesiastical parity Bishop and Presbyter all one 18. Whether I do not believe The Canons of the Apostles distinguished the three degrees of Bishops Presbyters and Deacons and gave the superiority to Bishops Can. 4.6 7. 19. Whether I do not believe Thebulis and Aerius did therefore phansie an ecclesiastical parity because they could not be made Bishops which they earnestly affected Epiphan Haeres 75. 20. Whether I do not believe the Church of Jerusalem was called a Virgin Church and never corrupted untill by Thebulis because he was not made a Bishop Eus l. 4. c. 22. 21. Whether I do not believe Ignatius lived in the Apostles dayes and saw Christ in the flesh and being yet a Presbyter writ to the Antiochians to remember Evodius their Bishop who first from the Apostles received the superiority above the Presbyters and after being Bishop himself and going to suffer under Trajan writ to the Clergy and Presbyters there That they would be diligent in feeding their flock untill God did show unto them Him that should rule over them after his death And in another Epistle ad Sard. thus Presbyters be obedient to your Bishops Deacons be obedient to your Presbyters Laymen be obedient to all And after all concludes thus My soul for theirs that observe this order The Lord be with them 22. Whether I do not believe Aerius was the first that voted down all Fasts Vigilantius the first that voted down all Feasts appointed by the Church both Hereticks and therefore whether I may not fear I am something Heretical in following their steps 23. Whether I do not believe that St. James set out a Lyturgie or book of Common Prayer for the Church in his time St. Basil the like in his time St. Chrysostome the like in his time and so downwards untill Mr. Iohn Calvins time 24. Whether I do not believe that Mr. Iohn Calvin himself thought well of Common Prayers and particularly of our Common Prayer Book when he said Quod ad formam precum Ritum ecelesiae valde probo ut certa illa extet à qua pastoribus in sua functione discedere non licet Concerning a Form of Prayer and Ecclesiastical Rites I very well like that they be a certain and constant one from which the Pastors of the Church may in no wise depart or vary 25. Whether I do not believe That every word in the Common Prayer book is in the Bible either literally or rationally deduced thence v. g. for the Confession Almighty God Gen. 17.1 And most mercifull Father Exod. 34.6 We have erred and strayed from thy ways like lost sheep Psal 119.176 We have followed too much the devises and desires of our own hearts Jer. 18.12 We have offended against thy holy laws Mat. 7.8 We have left undone those things which we ought to have done 1 Sam. 15.24 And we have done those things which we ought not to have done 1 Sam. 24.5 2 Sam. 12.13 And there is no health in us Psal 38.3 But thou O Lord have mercy upon us miserable offenders Luk. 18.13 Spare thou them O God which confesse their faults Prov. 28.13 Restore thou them that be penitent Ezek. 18.31 According to thy promise declared unto mankinde in Christ Iesus our Lord Mat. 11.18 And grant O most mercifull father for his sake Joh. 16.23 That we may hereafter live a godly righteous and sober life Titus 2.12 To the glory of thy holy Name 1 Tim. 6.16 26. Whether I do not believe the Absolution Almighty God the father of our Lord Iesus Christ be grounded upon Joh. 20.23 27. Whether I do not believe the Lords Prayer with the Doxology Thine is the Kingdom Power and Glory is verbatim in Mat. 6. and without that Doxology in Luk. 11. 28. Whether I do not believe those Versicles O God make speed to save us be not in Psal 102.13 Open thou my lips O Lord. And my mouth shall shew forth thy praise Psal 51.15 I might be endless to Answer therefore some of your grand Objections I ask 29. Whether I do not believe Remember not Lord our Offences nor the
offences of our forefathers is a sincere prayer for the living and no sinfull prayer for the dead viz. That God would not visit the offences of our forefathers upon us their children and grounded upon Exod. 20. and Ezek. 18. 30. Whether I do not believe From sudden death good Lord deliver us is a fervent ejaculation no idle desire that God would not take us away unpreparedly untill we have made ready our accompts 31. Whether I do not believe for all them that travell by land or by water all women labouring of childe and is a charitable prayer and answerable to the Apostles command Do good to all Gal. 6.10 Pray for all men 1 Tim. 2.3 32. Whether I do not believe By thy holy Nativity and Circumcision by thy Agony and bloody sweat c. is obtestative and the signe of our Faith not affirmative and the signe of an Oath desiring God by these effectuall means of the Actions and Passions of Iesus Christ to deliver us from those punishments which are due unto us for our sins 33. Whether I do not believe the first prayer in the Office of Matrimony That God would blesse this couple as Isaac and Rebecca proceeded rather from the holy Ghosts inspiration than from humane invention because if from man onely he would have gone upon reason and made the prayer thus blesse them as Abraham and Sarah or blesse them as Iacob and Rachel for Abraham was Gods first friend Iacob was Gods great freind yet neither so nor so but as Isaac and Rebecca because Abraham had his Hagar one Concubine Iacob had his Zilkah and his Bilkah two at least Isaac never any but his Rebecca 34. Whether I do not believe That that prayer Prevent us O Lord in all our doings c. be not absolutely against those great points of popery concerning work of preoperation and cooperation grounded upon that of St. Paul Eph. 2.8 and so no kin to the Mass book 35. Whether I do not believe the Creed of the Apostles is every word in the Scripture viz. I believe Mark 9.24 in God John 14.1 the Father 1 Cor. 1.3 Almighty Gen. 17.1 maker of heaven and earth Gen. 1.1 and in Iesus Christ his onely Son our Lord Rom. 1.3 which was conceived by the holy Ghost and born of the Virgin Mary Luk. 1.35 suffered under Pontius Pilate John 19.1 was Crucified Joh. 19.18 Dead Joh. 19.30 and Buried Joh. 19.42 He descended into Hell Act. 2.27 the third day he rose again from the dead 1 Cor. 15.4 He ascended into Heaven and sitteth at the right-hand of God Mar. 16.19 From thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead Act. 10.42 And in the holy Ghost Mat. 28.19 The holy Catholick Church the Communion of Saints Ephes 5.27 the forgivenesse of sins Col. 1.14 The Resurrection of the Body 1 Cor. 15.35 and life everlasting Joh. 10.28 36. Whether I do believe the Feasts of Christmass Easter and Whitsuntide have been observed by the purest and Primitive Churches and commanded upon us to observe the same Clem. ep decret Telesph p. 117. Cyprian de Nativ Christi Nazian Orat. 38. Chrysost hom in Nativ Christi The Church of Helvetias confess c. 24. The Church of Bohemia c. 15. The Church of Bremen Regist 2. fine The Church of Auspurge confess act 4. 37. Whether I do not believe The Lord be with thee and with thy Spirit equivolent to Ruth 2.4 38. Whether I do not believe St. Paul spake Scripture when he said and bid us pray with the spirit and with the understanding and whether I do not sometimes pray without the understanding when I think I pray by the spirit 39. Whether I do not believe That therefore I have done very ill to excommunicate the English Common Prayer Book which by most Divines hath been called optimum Breviarum and instead of it have set up a Directory which speaks nothing so much as the sixt sence and hath no better Derivation than from the Directarii But I am in earnest and earnestly desire of Almighty God that if the Presbyterian be determined to go on in his opinion yet that we may joyn together in all Christian affaction and so meet in heaven in an everlasting Vnion for till I am convinced upon the former Queries I am resolved never to be of their communion upon earth though I wish them increase of sanctity while they live and eternity of happines when they dye through Iesus Christ Amen II. Whether Romane I Am as far from Rome as I am from Geneva yet finding the Romane possest with more of the water and the Presbyterian with more of the fire I hope some moderation may in time cement England and Rome into the Catholick so strongly as never hereafter to be dissolved or melted by the fury of zeal You and you onely I confesse have the face of a Church and I hope you will not deny us the Form and Beeing of a Church since I believe there is so much ingenuity and wisdome in you as to distinguish betwixt a Church extinguished and eclipsed or persecuted The Church of England I acknowledge is under a cloud and eclipsed but the Candle is not quite out and extinguished Wheresoever two or three of the Catholick Church are gathered together there is Christ in the midst of them so was his promise Mat. 18.20 And wheresoever a lawfull Priest or Pastor of the English Church is with two or three of his Congregation I will not I dare not doubt of the performance If you have lesse charity either in the taking or mistaking of it I shall propose some few Queries in my own name as one of you though I thank God I am none of you nor ever intend to be in opinion howsoever in affection because you are my next neighbour I therefore love you as my self 1. Whether I do believe Romane and Catholick are Termini convertibiles 2. Whether I do believe I may be saved if I pray as the Catholick Church doth and was taught by Christ Our father which art in heaven though I do not pray as the Romane Church doth and teacheth O thou mother of God St. Peter St. Paul pray for me 3. Whether if I do believe as the Primitive and Catholick Church did and doth and hath taught the Apostles Creed though I do not believe as the Romane Church doth The Creed of the Councel of Trent I may be saved 4. Whether if I endeavour to live after Gods Commandments and obey him though I do not endeavour to live after my superiors command I may be saved 5. Whether if I receive the Sacrament of the Eucharist as Christ Instituted and Commanded me to receive it in both Kindes Bread and Wine Flesh and Blood though I do not receive it as the Church of Rome hath abrogated it and Commanded to receive in one Kinde onely I may be saved 6. Whether my Conscience can be satisfied by the devise of concomitants That the Bloud is given