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A36654 A third reply, or, A short return to Mr. Baxters brief answer to my second reply, in his postscript to a late treatise of justification wherein his contradictious and slanderous way of writing is further detected / by H. D'Anvers. Danvers, Henry, d. 1687. 1676 (1676) Wing D232; ESTC R36070 13,883 17

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judicious to determine Instance ●ut fal●ing his ●elarati●● The other Instance he gives to prove my Book is full of false Allegations and sit off with the greatest audacity is as he saith by those few Lines of his own about their meeting at St. James's left with the Clark grosly falsified p. 73. Postscript Falshood Concerning which that the Reader may better judge of this gross falsification let him take here the following Copy I wrote after and what is without dispute from the Original it self viz. The Copy I had from my Bookseller Though when I began to Preach in this Place I publickly professed that the notorious necessity of the People who were more than the Parish Church can hold moved me thereto and that we met not under any colour or pretence of any Religious Exercise ix other manner than according to the Liturgy and practice of the Church of England and that were I able I would accordingly read the same The Copy obtain'd from the Original Though when I began to Preach in this Place I publickly professed that the notorious necessity of the People who were more than the Parish Church can hold moved me thereto and that we met not under any colour or pretence of any Religious Exercise in other manner than according to the Liturgy and practice of the Church of England and were I able I would accordingly read my self So that you see the Sum Total of this gross falsification lies singly in these words Read the same for Read my self not another Syllable different which I humbly conceive might well have passed if Mr. B. meant candidly and honestly without such a brand having one and the same sence and signification For it Mr B. would not be thought as here he solemnly declares to be a seperate from the publick profession he must give his personal assent and consent to the Common Prayer and accordingly read the same himself as all Conformists do and by Law established ought to do And if he doth really meet under no other colour or pretence of any Religious Exercise in other manner than according to the Liturgy and practice of the Church of England he must accordingly read the same himself viz. the Common Prayer as others of the Church of England do so that if he do not prevaricate but means honestly as his words import it is one and the same thing and no gross falsification Though how far such an accurate defining and distinguishing understanding a mature exercised discerning knowledge he seems so arogantly to insinuate he has arived to p. 78. Postscript can by Reading accordingly himself make it such a gross falsification and so different from accordingly reading the same is worthy of consideration And what mental equivocation and reservation may lie in these words to relieve him at a dead lift and to help him into a Conformists Pulpit I know not he best knows himself Though it is confidently affirmed by some that Mr. B. hath lately in Hartfordshire or Buckinghamshire in order to obtain the Pulpit where he several times preached in publick read the Common Prayer or at least some part of it out of the Service Book Though it is also said that he hath obtained that publick liberty by vertue of a Licence he had from the Arch-Beshop of Canterbury but whether it be one formerly granted by him when the Bishop of London before the Act of Conformity when by the Bishop of Worcester he was silenced in those parts or since is worthy inquiry and the rather because in his said Postscript he is pleased to tell us viz. F. 79. That he is for'd to part with House and Goods and Library and all save his Clothes and possess no thing his death being sought after the 6 Months Imprisonment in the common Goal and continually expected viz. To fly from his place and charge if not to avoid the Cross of Christ to shun a suffering Witness when so lo loudly call'd thereto but how agreeable to the following Scriptures it submitted to his Conscience viz. 2 Cor. 6.4 5 6 c. Acts 20.11 12 13. Mat. 10.38 29. John 10.12 13. Mat. 23.2.3 4. But is not this a strange Paradox that he should suffer at that rate for a Non-conformist at London and yet act the part of a Conformist to so high a degree in the Countrey The Truth of which story if I am not misinformed is thus That Mr. B. having with his friends built a new meeting Place near Pickadille and preaching the first time in it himself did understand that he was threatened with an Imprisonment by some great man who was offended the meeting-house was erected so near him did to avoid the same withdraw himself the next week into the Countrey procuring by himself or friends a Countrey Minister who came to Town the week before to preach for him in the said meeting place the next Sabboth day and who was in Mr. B's room and stead seized and for refusing of Oxford Oath committed to the Gate-house for 6 monthe where he lay about 3 months but lately Released by Habeas Corpus and the said meeting-house shut up for some time so that by Proxy he suffers Imprisonment for a Non-conformist in London and in person though complainingly banished out-does all the Non-conformists by his publick preachings in the Countrey as a Conformist Which contradictions in practise so agreeable to those of his Doctrines before remarked to you puts me in mind of Bishop Halls Letter to Welliam Laud afterwards Arch-Bishop of Canterabury not unworthy to be mentioned upon this occasion Decad. Ep. 3. Ep. 5. I would I knew where to find you then I could tell where to take a direct aim whereas now I must rove and conjecture to day you are in the Tents of the Romanists to morrow in ours the next day between both our adversaries think you ours we theirs Your Conscience finds you with both and neither I flatter you not this of yours is the worst of all tempers heat and Gold have their uses lukewarmness is good for nothing but to trouble the Stomack How long will you bault Resolve one way and know at last what you do hold what you should cast off either your Wings or your Teeth and loathing this Bat-like Nature be either a Bird or a Beast Alas how full are you of contradictions How oft do you fight with your self Which I desire Mr. B. may apply I presume others will as a suitable parallel not only respecting his double dealing about Non-conformity but even Popery it self also But let so much suffice as to the 2 Instances by which all the rest I have said of Mr. B. is so much in his esteem to be judged 4ly As to his Rhetorical Reviling in those his quibbling reflections upon me and my Book in 9 Particulars which take up 4 of the last 7 Pages are left to the judicious Reader to determine to whom those Characters he is so liberal of do most properly belong
other Age or that I have since said that any continue the same practice he would but deceive Men for it is nothing so And p. 74 of Postscript My Book was written 1649. A little before common uncontrolled same was that not far from us in one place many of them were Baptized naked c. So that all this being laid together he would have us think that this respected only some in the first rise of the Sect as common fame gave it a little before he wrote his Book in 49 but in no Age or time ever since But how little Truth or Honesty there is in this shuffle let the Reader judge For 1st It is manifest that Anabaptisme had not its rise about this time as he seems to insinuate for not to mention the Anabaptists in H. the 8th's time and Queen Elizabeths also as exprest at large in the Treatise of Baptism p. 306. c. There were divers Churches of Anabaptists in the Nation many years before this so that if he respected the beginning of the Sect he is far less competent to report common fame for so long before than Mr. Fisher to deny it 3 years after But 2dly it is manifest that the Book it self that reports it doth not give it as a hear-say of something past and practiced by a few but of the known practice of their Sect at the time of the writing thereof his words are as before remark'd viz. My 7th Argument is against another wickedness in their manner of Baptizing which is their dipping persons naked as is very usual c. viz. as they practiced at that time of the writing of his Book by such naked Baptizing or next to naked not a word of Common Fame of some people before that time as now he would be thought to intend but their known practice at that present Falshood 1 Thirdly His next Subterfuge to which he flies for some relief is from the place where then he would be thought to intend it was so practiced having it seems now found out a particular place near them wherein to center it and by which he would be understood not to mean it to be universal His words are these p. 74. Postscript Common uncontroul'd fame was that not far from us in one place many of them were Baptized naked reproproving the clothing way as Antiscriptural And therefore tells us He applyed to Mr. Tombes himself and to divers of his Church who denyed it not And p. 75 Gives one reason why Mr. Haggar and Fisher were not competent Judges of a matter of Fact far from them viz. Mr. Fisher in Kent and Haggar in Staffordshire and Mr. Baxter and Mr. Tombes in Worcestershire and the place intended ●ear or not far from Kedderminster But whether this Fig-leaf will afford him any more cover than the former will easily appear For First it is clear the Book it self reporting it doth not confine it to any such place in their Neighbourhood but detects it to be the ordinary practice of the Anabaptists to Baptize naked or next to naked And Secondly His More Proofs tells us the fame hereof was so universal that it was the common consent of that present time and that to deny it would be to take all sorts then living for Lyars But Thirdly it appears he has very much miss'd his Mark and ill layed his matters together to make the Anabaptists in his Neighbourhood who own'd Mr. Tombes to be their Pastor and Administrator as now he affirms to have been the most interessed persons p. 75. and most principally concern'd in this matter of Fact since at another time he confesseth Mr. T. was of another Judgment so that if very many of them did so usually practice the naked Dipping it must be without their Admiministrator But Fourthly to put the matter out of Doubt his own words in his More Proofs will rectify him and at least discover to him that he has an ill memory vix p. 282 where he tells us That in 47 and 48. He lived near Mr. Tombes in a Countrey where some were and within the hearing of their practice in other parts of the Land and that in that their beginning the common fame of Ministers and People was that in divers places some Baptized naked and some did not So that here the common fame it seems respected not only one place in their Neighbourhood but divers places throughout the Land and therefore assigns common consent at that time and all sorts then Living to affirm it And the Original Book as before That it was the usual and ordinary wicked practice of the whole party at that time to dip naked or next to naked which was much as one in his account Falshood The Fourth shift he makes is respecting the evidence he yet stands by to make it good viz 1st The Positive Testimony viz Common Fame 2dly The Negative or Circumstantial Testimony viz. The non-denial of any no not the most interessed persons themselves To the 1st His More Proofs p. 282. assirms it to be common fame and common consent and his Postscript common uncontrolled fame And again in these words viz. And in a matter of Fact if that fame be not credible which is of things late and near and not contradicted by any one we must surcease humane converse But what this signifies let all men judge It is true when I call'd upon him for satisfaction for this groundless slander he tells us 26 years after That he had it by common fame of Ministers and People and by common consent at the present time and to deny it was to take all sorts then living for Lyars and again common uncontrolled fame But is it not very strange that if it had been such a common uncontrolled fame at that time that no man should mention it but Mr. B. The Anabaptists having many bitter Enemies who then and before that time wrote against them and was it not much that none of them should meet with that common fame but he for surely if they had we had heard of it from other hands besides his own Though as to that kind of Evidence viz. common fame I had thought I had inserted enough from Mr. B's own Pen out of his Christian Directory for ever to have prevented his insisting on it any more which tells us It is the most common Cloak for the most inhumane lies and Calumnies c. And was not that the Testimony which made the Waldenses such Villains Paul such an Heretick and put Christ to death c. But to put the matter out of Doubt the ground you will find that first he assign'd for the matter of Fact was not common fame bear-say or bare words which as he heretofore own'd was so uncertain a thing yea so great a Lyar but known experience as his own words evidence viz. p. 138. plain Scrip. But in both these Cases viz. That of Murder and Adultery by dipping naked in cold water we dispute not against bare
to me or himself I being not so competent a Judge in my own Case viz. The disputing contender One that sets off the grossest mistakes with the greatest confidence a fierce striver against Truth an ignorant militant casting fire about like Sampsons Foxes a dividing hurtful Zealot ● talking man that can say something Let it also be judged ●o which if us Solomons Character Prov. 21.24 doth most properly belong for and against any thing c. Only I beg leave to make a little Observation upon that mentioned by him p. 78. wherein he acquaints us in what a forgiving frame he is and particularly his disposition to forgive me in detecting in that way his Popery and Crimes his changes and passages about the Wars self-contradictions and Repentances not describing or denominating my citations about them lest he did that which savoured not of forgiveness To which I say if he thereby intends it for my faithful plain dealing though mixt sometimes with some sharpness especially in some repetitions from Dr. Pierce and Dr. Stubbs his needs calling for it to cure his pride as Dr. P. observes to him I then accept it though I think his thanks had been more proper in the Case But if it must be supposed for some injurious ill dealing with him thereby it is as I conceive a calumniating by way of insinuation a recriminating instead of confessing a giving the lye to instead of answering and disproving his Reprovers And wherein he doth not only beg instead of clear his own integrity so fully impeached by such ample demonstration in all the Particulars mentioned but also under pretence of Brotherly Charity and a kiss of Love stabs his Brethren under the 5th Rib. Though such pretended forgiveness seems to me as ridiculous as if a man ask satisfaction of another for some slanderous defamation or injurious personal Assualt as dragging by the Hair of the Head about the Streets and he calmly for his satisfaction tells him he forgives him and that we all stand in need of Divine forhiveness The Conclusion TO Conclude I desire since Mr. B. has pleased so confidently to affirm That only that thing about Naked dipping in all my Book needs any new answer from him That he will seriously consider these 2 things which I presume others may viz. 1. Whether the Answer he hath now given thereto may rationally free him from a publick Calumniator and false Accuser And if not Whether then such Crimes do not loudly call for due Humiliation publick Acknowledgment and Recantation with promise to look better to his Spirit and Pen for time to come And no more to improve his accurate distinguishing faculty fluent invention and ready Pen thus to bring forth new shifts to palliate or justifie old crimes and contemptiously to reproach and villifie those that in faithfulness call him to duty therein 2. Whether that since it may be possible he may so grosly mistake himself in that thing he lays the greatest stress upon he may not as much fail in the rest he so slights and under-values And may not from thence see cause also to call in question his great confidence in those Hetrodox Points he hath lately so voluminously tormented the World and grieved and offended his Brethren with All which is humbly submitted to the Judicious Reader and Mr. Baxters Conscience in the sight of God with these two following words viz. 1. An Aphorisme of his own lately sent by him to the Learned Dr. Tully and worthy his own remembrance all his Days viz. He that cannot endure the sight of his own Excrements must not dish them up to another Mans Table lest they be sent him back again Treat of Just p. 77. So agreeable to the following Scriptures though express'd as you 'l find in far better Language and very worthy your observation upon this occasion viz. Prov. 26. 27. Psal 7.15 16. Eccles 10.8 9. Mat. 7.2 The other That known Adage of a wiser Man than himself viz. Open rebuke is better than secret love And he that rebuketh a Man afterwards shall find more favour than he that flattereth with the Tongue Prov. 27.5.28.23 Which must be understood from a Wise I●●●n who will therefore love his reprover better whilst the Scorner he tells us will hate him the more for such faithfulness Prov. 9.8 9. But however to provoke to that much neglected duty to which cuarage and wisdom is so much requir'd Prov. 25.12 tells us That to them that so rebuke shall be delight and a good Blessing shall come upon them Prov. 24.25 ERRATA In the Marginal Note P. 4. r. That if the sin for That the sin FINIS