Christ be not a company of people called and separated out from the world by the worde of God and ioyned togeather in fellowship of the Gospell by voluntary profession of the faith and obedince of Christ And whether the present ecclesiasticall assemblies of this Land be such or no. 5 Whether the Sacraments beeing seales of the righteousnes which is by faith may be deliuered to any other then to the faithfull and their seed or in any other ministery and manner then is appoincted by Iesus Christ the Apostle and high Priest of our profession And whether they bee not otherwise administred in the Cathedrall and parishionall assemblies of England at this day 6 Whether their booke of Common prayer with the Feastes Fasts and Holy dayes stinted prayers and Leiturgy prescribed therein and vsed in these assemblies be the true worship of God commaunded in his word or the deuise or inuention of man for Gods worship and seruice 7 Whether all people and Churches without exception bee not bound in Religion only to receiue and submit vnto that ministerie worship and order which Christ as Lord and King hath giuen and appoyncted to his Church Or whether in Religion any may receiue or ioyne vnto another ministery worship and order deuised by man for the seruice of God And consequently whether they which ioyne to the present ecclesiasticall ministerie worship and order of these cathedrall and parishionall assemblies can bee assured by the word of God that they ioyne vnto the former appoincted by Christ and not to the latter deuised by man euen the man of sinne for the worship and seruice of God Vnto these questions and the particulers thereof for the causes aforesaid we desire their direct answer with proofes of their answers from the scriptures according to which word if they speake not as wee said before so we say againe with the “ Esa 8.20 Prophet Esay It is because there is no light in them And now to conclude whereas this man being not able to answer our Reasons as hath bene declared yet would in the ende of his writting fasten vpon vs some strange passion yea and meere desperatnes for separating from them and answering of them as we haue done We leaue it the godly and discrete Reader to iudge by that which hath bene said on both parts whether it bee not themselues which are taken with a strange passion and driuen there unto by meere desperatnes when as to mainteyne their estate they will haue the scriptures to fall as hath bene * See the answer to our second Exceptiō and 7. Reason c. seene in their answeres before yea and exalt the Church and Magistrate aboue Christ himselfe euen flesh and blood aboue God blessed for euer But for this and oll their vnrighteous dealing against the truth and people of God we leaue them to the Lord who searcheth the hearts tryeth the raynes euen to giue euery man according to his wayes and according to the frute of his workes That is to them that by continuance in weldoing seeke glorie and honor and immortalitie eternall life But vnto them that are contentious and disobey the trueth and obey vnrighteousnes indignation and wrath Jer. 17.10 with Rom. 2.6 7 8. H. IACOB his 2. Reply to the 9. Reason IN this your defence of the last Reason you mislike that I say it is a fallacy and you say I shew none Marke what I say Euery one of your Reasons I say euery one is a very proper fallacy and an artificiall parte of Sophisterie as by my seuerall answers to them may appeare Your First Reason is called in the scholes Fallacia ab co quod est secandum quid ad simpliciter prouing a thing to be simply by that which is but after a sort The Second is the very same The Thirde Fallacia aequinocationis A fallacie of Ambiguity The Fourth is the very same The Fift is petitio principij a begging of the question The Sixth the very same fallacie that was in the First and Second Reasons The Seauenth Eight and Ninth haue all the Fallacy of Equiuocation and if you will the same with that in your First Second and Sixt Reasons also Further where you say that here I graunt you the cause it is very absurd The Apostle 1 Tim. 6.3 4 5. saying separate frō such hath a two fould sence Either such as teach otherwise then the trueth fundamentally and then separate wholly Or not fundamentally but erring only in poincts lesse then the foundation and theise diuersely also Either presumptuously obstinately and of a desparate conscience and then if that apeate separate from such wholly Or els erring in simplicitie and of ouersight and former preiudice from such separate not wholly but only from the very error or errors in no wise from their Christian communion and societie seeing theise are true Christians Seing therefore our corruptions of the Praelacie and Ceremonies be of these latter sort which thing hetherto you haue not nor cannot ouerthrowe and withall you must vtterly ouerthrowe Maist Cranmer and the rest of the Martirs their Christianitie likewise Therefore wee in England by the grace of God are still true Christians and you ought so to acknowledge vs as you will answer vnto God All which you may doe and yet touch no parte of our Ecclesiasticall corruptions at all to giue allowance vnto them And in all this there is no contradiction with my selfe it is but your distempered conceipt that seemeth contrarie Neither is our absolute departure from the Papists hereby anie whit impeached Wee haue iustlie forsaken them cleane because by their very profession doctrine wee cannot esteeme them true Christians neither in case of saluation while they so remaine but indeed very Antichristes as the scripture proueth Which thing also if you say of vs you say falslie it is our present question and you doe not proue it nor euer can doe As for your 17. poincts of false doctrine which you most falsly lay to our chardge what haue I to doe with them I list not to meddle at this prsent but with that which wee haue in hand namely to iustifie that our publike booke of Articles of Religion so farre forth as that it erreth not fundamentally As it doth not conteyneth sufficient to make a true Christian Against the which hetherto you haue brought nothing worth the hearing as we haue seene After you would proue vs to be like those Iewes Act. 19.9 whom Paul separated from But without all good reason They were not so many but they were casely certified of the truth that Paul preached but how infinitly many moe are there in this land that know nothing of this controuersie 2. Secondly Paul was better able to conuince them by the scriptures and did more effectually and apparantly then you doe or can our whole Realme 3. Thirdly how many learned are there in this lande that haue many probable and seeming reasons and alleadge them publish
own description aforesaid Their Ministers all of them are either Prelates Priestes or Deacons which amongst them is a step to the Priesthood none of which Christ hath ordeyned in his Testament for the worke of his ministerie Their people are not separated from the world but stande in confusion with it and in subiection to the Antichristian Prelates and Prelacie See Iohn 15.19 17.14.16 1. Iohn 4.5 6 Act. 2.40 and 19.9 Reuel 18.4 14.9 And therefore can not be deemed a true church of God the people of Christ vnto whom in such estate the Sacraments which are seales of the couenant of grace doe apperteyne and may be administred Finally their administration is acçording to the inuentions and precepts of man with stinted prayers exhortations Epistles and Gospels and besides those in Baptisme crossing on the forehead questions to the infant in the Lords supper translating and vsing out of the Masse booke other wordes then the wordes of Christes institution and such like as may bee seene at large in their booke of common prayer which is picked and culled out of the Masse booke full of all abominations as “ Admonitiō to the Parlament second treatis themselues haue published heretofore These things we haue ben forced thus to mention at large both because they twice demaund as if they knewe not themselues wherein their practise is contrarie to that description aforesaid and because they blush not to affirme that all the Christian world seeth and confesseth their practize to be aggreeable to their profeession in that booke Whereas the contrarie is most true Touching which what themselues haue heretofore written to the contrarie See in the Admonitions to the Parleament Replyes of T. C. against D. Whitguift Demonstration of Discipline c And what the reformed Churches professe to the contrarie see in the Frenche Belgicke and Heluetian Churches and in the Harmonie of cōfessions Sect. 10. 11. which would be too long to set downe at large in this place Neither is it needfull seeing it is most euident in the books and places alleadged whether we referre the Reader Thus also it appeared what iust cause wee had to put them to proue their assemblies to be such as themselues discribe visible Churches to bee Which seing they haue not yet done and seing their practice is contrarie to their profession as now at their request we haue shewed in the perticulers aforesaid If they still bee minded as before wee doe also still aske where and what are their proofes touching the perticulers mentioned in their owne description of a visible Church Their similitude of a Landlord and Tennaunt is against themselues so wortthy and Clercklike is their reply If any haue vsurped or otherwise made a false clame neuer so long to a piece of lād or other possession may they not iustly be called vpon to shew their title bring fourth their euidence Let the Iudges giuē sentence If I deny their clame and title to be such let him shew their euidence from the Apostles writinges Let vs from thence see their euidence for the offices of Archbs. Lordbs Suffraganas Archdeacons Chauncelers Commissaries Officials Priests Parsons Vicars Cnraets c For their entrance into their Offices according to their Cannons and Booke of ordering Priestes and Deacons and of consecrating Archbishops and Bishops For their administration by their stinted imposed Liturgy and by their Popish Cannons Officers and proceedings For their Churching of women praying ouer the dead Holy-dayes to Saints and Angels Fastes on their Eaues c. For their maintenance by Tythes Chrisomes Offerings c. For their confused communion of all sortes of people though neuer so wicked in the body of their Church c. Let them I say shewe vs euidence for those from the Apostles writinges if they deny their claime to bee such as wee haue noted Otherwise if they †Isay 8.20 speake not according to this word it is because there is no light in them neither any right to that they challendge Where they say vve held part of their possession vvith thē heretofore If they meane that we with them receiued the beastes marke and drunke of the cup of Babels abominations we deny it not but acknowledge Gods mercy that passing ouer our sinnes hath giuen vs grace and strength at his “ Reue. 18.4 2 Cor. 6.17 18 Actes 2.4 commaundement to forsake that way of Antichrist and to come out of that spirituall Babilon to saluation of our soules which mercy wee wish also vnto these men that so being saued from this froward generatiō they may become the sonnes and daughters of the Lord almighty in Christ our Sauiour Touching their Article Preaching Sacraments Ministration c. enough is said before Onely where they say they see not themselues wherin they faile touching Preaching or Sacramēts in things necessary It is too impudent vntruth as their * Admonition to the Parliament T. C. his replies in defence thereof Demonstratiō of discipline Declaration defence of Ecclesiastical discipline c. former writtings doe and will alwayes testifie to their faces which wee will not stand here to relate That shall suffice which we haue touched before which till it bee aunswered it will be found that our first exception hath both reason and weight in it whatsoeuerthey doe or can pretend to the contrarie H. IACOB his 2. Reply to the 1. Excep HEre is much adoe to no purpose You obserue 4. pointes in our Article omitted by mee vvherein our practize is contrarie to our profession Firste our Article requireth a visible Church to bee an assembly of faithfull men But our assemblies say you are not so This is false they are so you shall neuer proue in vs the contrarie more then appeareth was in the Church of the Iewes both Auncient and in the time of Christ And yet they then were the true Church As I haue elswhere in this Booke sufficiently proued and shewed against you That which you bring of D. Whitgift and other writers amongst vs of the prophanesse of many in our assemblies you depraue their meaninges vtterlie for though they graunt verie many such to be amongst vs yet they say not that all our assemblies are such nor our whole assemblies Neither denie they our assemblies to be companies of faithfull men or vtterly to be separated from Nay the contrarie doe they euen that onely they ought to be reformed Therefore you too grossely abuse them Secondly The Article requireth the pure worde of God to be preached But say you the Apocrypha books reading of Homilies other errors are allowed in our practize Yea surely in our professiō too as your selfe obserueth in the book of Artic. yet then our profession practise differ not as you charg our Churches But these poinctes are not the pure word of God Neither doth the Article meane that in a visible church euery iot title both of our professiō practize must needs be
directlie of the breach of the Second Commaundment ioyning togeather in the worship of the true God their inueÌ„tions with Gods ordinances I say it is most manifest that he speaketh not of the breach of the Second Commandement onely but also of the first wherein men haue their inuentions also The Prophet sheweth vers 4. and 7. That God returned to his Temple againe whence he was departed for the abominable idolatries that had ben there committed before to shew that he would restore lerusalem and the Temple and worship of God againet He meaneth this literally of the returning of the Iewes after Babilons captiuitie and of the reedifying of the Temple and the appointing againe of Gods holy worship there Also spirituallie he may meane the erecting of the Christian Church wheÌ„ they should not fal to such impieties as the Iewes had done nowe in that time before for the which he had departed away from them Nowe if we aske what were those Idolatours in Ierusalem and in the Temple before Ezekiels time for the whiche the Lord forsooke them it is manifest in Ahas in Manasses and Amon and in the Kings after Iosiah That the Iewes idolatrie was verie Heathenish not onely against the Second but against the First Commandement also in ioyning the Heathen gods with the true God of Izraell in their Diuine seruice and worship Therefore this place of Ezekiell is as I say Not of the breach of the Second commandment onely simplie as our church corruptions are but ioinctlie touching the breach of the First also The verie same is that your Third scripture pag. 30. 2 Kings 17 33 34 40 41 of the Samaritans Idolatrie â— King 17. wherein because you are large I will deferr to explaine it till your Sixt Reason following where is a proper place for it 4 Lastlie in pag. 31. you agrauate the breach of the Second Commandment as being spirituall whordome c. But I would haue you to know Things may be mismatched too cruelly as well as too gentlie There is a sinne both wayes when things are not called by their proper and right names Is it true in some sence euery breach of the Second Commandement is spirituall whordome as euery wanton word euery light gesture and countenance euery immodest thought in a Woman is Adulterie yet who so shall angerlie and continuallie so call a woman whore harlot or baude that but thinketh or looketh or speaketh too vainly shall doe her great wronge and inâ—â—â—â—e the iust daunger of lawe Neither can shee nor ought shee in such case be diuorced as an Adulteresse ought And thus it appeareth 〈◊〉 still that you sinne again stabe Third Commaundment in misapplying of scriptures In the ende in pag. 31. where you saye To the proofe of your Assumption I answere neuer a worde which most of all required answere This I tell you that it is your fancie and not my meaning heere to answere to your Proposition First and then to your Assumption to say nothing Nay if you had not dreamed you might easilie haue perceyued that all my first wordes viz. where I say your speech here is vnproper c. are bent directly against your Assumption and the proofe thereof although at this time I expressed not those termes Secondly I shewe that your scriptures applyed to proue the Proposition are altogither vnfitt and intollerably abused if you meane them in that sence as your Assumption must be meant that is to say as they touch vs. This a verie childe might haue seene Maister Iohnson So that your marginall scoffe at my sound and schollerlike dealing doeth light on your self and bewrayeth eyther your deepe skill or your ouerflowing charitic As for the rest That I should iustifie our corruptions it is no part of my minde neither belongs it to our present cause so to doe Maister IOHNSONS II. Reason against the former Assumption with Maister IACOBS Replies to the same REASON II. THat which appointeth and ratifieth the worshipping of God in vaine That cannot make either true Christians or true Churches But the doctrine publikely professed and practized by law in England appointeth and ratifieth the worshiping of God in vaine Therefore c. Of the trueth of the Proposition none can doubt And the Assumption is thus proued That which appointeth and ratifieth the worshiping of God by the precepts of man That appoincteth and ratifieth the worshiping of God in vaine This Christ affirmeth out of Esay the Prophet Mat. 15.9 compared with Esay 29.13 But the doctrine publiquely professed practized by law in England appoincteth and ratifieth the worshipping of God by the precepts of man This appeareth by the 35. and 36. Article of the booke alleaged And by their booke of CoÌ„mon prayer their Fastes Feastes Holy dayes c which are executed by their Popish Courts and Officers All which are authorized by Law in England Therefore the doctrine publiquely professed and practized by lawe in England appointeth and ratifieth the worshiping of God in vaine And consequently cannot make a particuler man a true Christian nor the assemblies so gathered together true Churches H. JACOB his 1. Replie to the 2. Reason THis your Second Reason is This booke and others appoincteth and ratifieth the worshiping of God in vaine Ergo c. 1. This also hath answere in the third ExceptioÌ„ Pag 22. 2 Also noâ—e I pray you this Scripture Mat. 15. is verified of such as were theÌ„ of the true visible †Marke his open contrarietie with him self graunting this in Reas 6. Church with whom Christ and his Apostles both in Christes time and after his death did sometimes ioyne and comunicate This therefore maketh for vs and against you most notably F. IOHNSON his Defence of his 2. Reason OVr Second Reason is as you see now what proposition doth he deny Truely none at all What defence bringeth he of their booke of coÌ„mon prayers and the particulers therein Of their Prelacie other Ministerie receiued from them according to their booke and Pontificall Of their Canons and Excommunications c. Surely none What then doth he answere Forsooth he referred vs to his anuswer before in the last exception Whether also we referre the Reader with this note that there he shall finde nothing either for aunswer of anie proposition of this argument or for defence of their false worship Praelacie Ministerie and Church gouernement called into question Is not this then a worthie and Clerck like answere And haue not these men thinke you good proofe for their present estate and Church constitution Which thus leaue it altogeather without defence euen when it most needeth and as it were beg geth their help and succor if they could affoard it anie But now hauing no aunswer to any parte of our argument yet hee bids vs note that this Scripture Mat. 15. here alleaged is verified of such as were then of the true visible Church with whom Christ himself and his Apostles both in Christs time and after his death