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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A01735	A short reply vnto the last printed books of Henry Barrow and Iohn Greenwood, the chiefe ringleaders of our Donatists in England VVherein is layd open their grosse ignorance, and foule errors: vpon which their whole building is founded. By George Gyfford, minister of Gods holy worde, in Maldon.	Gifford, George, d. 1620.	1591 (1591)	STC 11868; ESTC S118836	80,934	106

hereticks shall not be able to finde the like for the slanderous presumption prowd contempt The preaching of the Gospel it selle in our church ye do most prophanely blaspheme in saying that ther with as with a goodly embrodered couerlet and fine shéets of Egipt we couer Iesabels bed hide al our fornicatiōs When ye say it as a sweet whistle as a charme yea when ye tearme it the whores scarfes to couer her shame pag. 141 Also wher as in many places of this land but chiefly when the Spaniards came to inuade there were fasts the word of God preached in some places by two in some by 3. ministers this ye call a stage play pag. 97. Ye say ye are no Donatists nor Schismaticks out of that which I haue written to shewe that ye are full Donatists ye gather sundry dissimilitudes betwixt your selues and them Ye might perhaps by diligence finde out some other things in which ye are not like them as it may be they did weare blew caps or gréene cloaks which ye doe not The truth is you do agrée with thē in the sum substance of all that fowlest things which ye cannot denie at least if ye come behinde them in any one poynt ye are before them in two other for it To follow ye in all points wher in ye erre tither with thē or with some other as wicked would be ouer tedious onely I note these and set them downe together 1 First that ye do most presumptuously against the expresse rules of Gods word intrude your selues into the Lords office in taking vpon ye to condemne the whole Church of England as separated from Christ refut page 23. 2 That ye condemne al the Churches in Europe which professe the Gospell that their people are but heapes of prophane men dise page 33. That their worship is blasphemous Idolatrie in as much as they haue leiturgies which is as ye say to haue another Gospell another Testament Refut page 244. That there is no ministry of the Gospel in al Europ Disc page 104. that the gouernement of al Churches is false and wicked Refut page 74. 75. Discou page 189. 190. 3 That ye confound errors and heresies as to make all errors heresies being conuinced to his conscience that erreth held and to make none to be heresies vnles he be conuinced that erreth Refu page 24. 4 That with Nouatus the wicked heretick ye take away all hope of saluatiō frō those which offend of knowledge willingly in as much as ye make euery obstinate persisting in the least error to separate frō the faith Communion of Christ pa. 24. 5 That ye deny the distinction of errors fundamentall and not fund amentall calling it popish Refut page 26. 6 That yee iudge of the whole Church to bee conuinced in conscience as of one man page 24. 7 That ye hold it a due conuincing not onely of particular persons but also of whole Churches and such as doth cast them forth as heathen so soone as any priuat man dooth reproue the least error they forthwith do not reforme the same page 24. 8 That ye condemne al without exception both learned and vnlearned men and wemen young and old which professe the Gospell in publick assemblies vpon false accusations without admonition in matters wherein if there be errors yet excellent godly men haue erred in them finally euen by your ●wne confession Refut page 180. 9 That ye say the best part of the booke of common praier is no better then a peece of swines flesh and abomination to the Lord. Refut page 48. 10 That ye say the greatest minister hath no more power to binde or loose the least member then the said member hath to binde or loose him and so with the Swinckfeldians destroy the whole power of the ministry page 37. 11 That ye speake so prophanely of singing of Psalmes and so dishonorably of Christian people Discou page 180. 12 That most offensiuely and prophanely ye tearme the articles of our faith our forged patcherie Discou page 76. 13 That ye deny men are to ioyne in that worship where any errors whatsoeuer doo appeare and are not reformed and so open a most wide gap vnto all Schismes Refut page 27. 14 That you are so grosly ignorant how the false Apostles vrged circumcision and so from the words of S. Paule to the Galathians affirme that paying tithes or the obseruing any times as it is in our church is an error fundamētal Refut pa. 36 15. That ye iudge them to be no true Churches which haue not excommunication pag. 54. 73. 16 That ye denie baptisme to the children of open sinners which yet remayne in the Church Refut pag. 58. 59. 17 That ye make the stablenes of Gods couenant towards his Church to depend vpon the works of men Refut pag. 60. 18 That ye hold circūcision amōg the ten tribes or in Iuda in time of Idolatrie was no true seale of the couenant yet ye say that cōcerning the outward cutting it was true circūcision the like ye say of baptisme administred in popery Ref. pag. 64. 19 That in your Disc from pag. 16. to pag. 45. and Refut pag. 97. ye take vpon ye to confute almost all which M Caluiue hath written against the Donatists Annabaptists holding that the prayers and Sacraments the consciences of all that communicate together are defiled where any open sinners are admitted 20 That ye deny the distinction of the external court the court of conscience so take away the power of the ciuil magistrate the power of the Church in making lawes in things indifferent taking vpon ye to confute M. Cal. Disc pa 94. 95. 21 That ye condemne Logick Rethorike and other liberal Artes. Refut pag 117. 22 That ye would haue al authors the bible only excepted cast aside in the study of diuinitie Disc pag. 146. 23 That ye wickedly blaspheme the operatiō motions of Gods spirit in the harts of men at the preaching of the gospel as if they were but the illusions of the diuel Disco pa. 141. 156 24 That ye speake so reprochfully of all the most excellent learned diuines which God hath raysed vp in al Churches cōdemning them of pride ignorance rashnes sensualitie c. Disco from pag. 140. vnto pag. 191. 25 That ye still stand to maintaine that priuate men may assemble and erect a Church with all the offices officers Refut pag. 191. 26 That ye affirme there bee no true ministers any where to be found vpō earth nor yet any extraordinary ministers to be looked for therfore meere priuate men are as ye say to erect and establish the Church Refut pag. 196. 27 That ye affirme these priuate men are not to stay for the Prince Refut pag. 196. 28 That ye maintaine that no fault is to be tolerated in the church but if any priuate man do espie a fault and reproue it if they will not amend it he is to forsake that church This is your whole practise I will not stand to lay open euery particular but vpon these conclude that seeing ye hold so many foule errors and with such outrage in your dealing God hath not sent ye nor set ye a work more then he sent the Donatists and Annabaptists but Satan hath seduced ye ye labor to seduce others And if it please God I beseech him for his sonns sake to open your eyes and to giue ye some spark of wa●●●orepent Amen FINIS

❧ A short Reply vnto the last printed books of Henry Barrow and Iohn Greenwood the chiefe ringleaders of our Donatists in England VVherein is layd open their grosse ignorance and foule errors vpon which their whole building is founded By George Gyfford Minister of Gods holy worde in Maldon Imprinted at London by Thomas Orwin for Tobie Cooke and are to be solde at the Tygers head in Pauls Churchyard 1591 To the Reader THere were good Christian Reader foure haynous accusatiōs laid against the Church of England for which the accusers haue condemned her all her publique assemblies as most wicked Antichristian Idolatrons synagogues of Sathan I shewed how falsely they doo accuse and howe presumptuously agaynst God they doo condemne And that indeede they are the very same with the auncient Donatists They haue replyed and published in print their defence but their bookes are intercepted yet some few haue escaped and are dispersed among theyr fellowes Wherefore I hold it needfull to publish some answere not dealing with euery error and absurditie for that would aske the trauaile of some yeares but onely with the chiefe grounds of their Schisme In this I trust euery simple man that hath a Christian heart shall see the effectuall power of Sathan when he turneth himselfe into the likenes of an Angell of light to seduce ignorant men which are lifted vp in their mindes with opinion of their knowledge For being men vnlearned onely some little froth excepted I speake thus because they peruert that little which they haue read in other means writings in sundry poynts yet as if they were sent from heauen with reuelations or as great Apostles they take vpon them to confute and controll and condemne all Churches and all the most worthy Instruments which GOD hath raysed vp in these last times For knowe this good Reader that the foure accusations which they haue brought agaynst the Church of England to condemne her ●●● also though with some differences brought against all Churches in Europe and that in expresse wordes in these their last bookes For the prescript formes of prayers which all the Reformed Churches doo vse they condemne as most horrible and 〈◊〉 blasphemie The people they say are prophane multitudes They say that in all Europe in all these knowen partes of the world there is no minister of Christ The gouernment by Elderships they condemne as a most proude thing as being without any warrant of Gods word Doo but readeouer these fewe things which I haue noted out of their booke● and iudge how fit they be for such a work as they haue taken in hand whether it be like that GOD hath sent them euen as it were Moses and Aaron to conduct his people out of Aegipt from vnder the bondage of Pharaoh for so they take it as appeareth by their owne wordes speaking of those which cleaue vnto them Many they see by Gods mightie hand say they escaped and marching with the banner of the Gospell displayed before all the inchaunters of Aegipt and Pharaoh his troupes pag. 5. of the Epistle And if it seeme lost time to stand vpon such grosse things yet take this profit as to see how needfull it is not to be high minded and presumptuously bolde in Gods matters but to feare and tremble with Humilitie To Master Barrow and Master Greenwood YE complaine much of hard dealing offered you and say ye are blasphemed with odious tearmes And if ye doo erre your desire is to be reduced by a Christian manner It is certaine when men are cleane aw●ye in simplicitie the matter toucheth but themselues they are to be dealt withall without seeking their disgrace But when they be publike and notorious seducers defacing Christs Ministers and many poore sheepe of Christ are in hazard to be spoyled They that take it to be vncharitable dealing to disclose and to paynt out such seducers in their colours and to disgrace them vtterly to the end that the simple may not be spoyled by thē as a praie doo want some iudgement For as it is Christian charitie in the Shepheards to deale meekely with the sheepe so is it high treachery and vnfaythfull dealing to Christ and his Church when the VVoolfe dooth come in sheepes clothing not to pluck it off and to let the sheepe see that he is a VVoolfe VVhy else did our Sauiour call the Pharisies hypocrites Serpents and generations of Vipers VVhy sayd S. Paule of the false Apostles beware of dogges Ye haue drawen many into an outragious presumption against God and his people flat contrary to the rules of his holy word as shall appeare in the discourse Ye hauerent out of the hearts of many all reuerence and loue towards the preachers of the Gospell and led them into such a presumptuous opinion of their owne vnderstanding that if they become not heretikes yet experience doth teach that many of them growe into irreligious prophanenes Master Barrow and Master Greenwood I doo not know your persons and I protest vnto ye there is no priuate thing hath moued me to seeke your disgrace but indeede the care of Christs sheepe And let it appeare by the things which follow whether I haue done ye any wrong A short Replie vnto the last printed Bookes of Henry Barrow and Iohn Greenwood the chiefe ringleaders of our Donatistes in England I Did lay to your charge M Barrow and Master Greenwood a matter very haynous and detestable yea most odious in the sight of euery good man as namely intollerable pride presumption and wicked intrusion into Gods office for that ye vtterly condemne and abandon all our assemblies as haynousty faulty and so wilfully obstinate in such principall transgressions as that they haue forfayted the couenant and are separated from the fayth and communion of Christ I set downe reasons from Gods word to conuince yee in this that if it pleased God ye might repent for this sauage crueltie by which ye indeuour to rend and teare vp all the Lords tender plants If not yet that others might see tremble at your inordinate and outragious boldenes Vnto this ye haue replied stifly affirming and labouring to maintayne that ye haue rightly condemned and cast foorth our assemblies as most wicked Antichristian Synagogues Adding moreouer that ye lie in prison as Christs poore afflicted seruants the Lords witnesses agaynst vs that your bonds and sufferings are glorious and that I as a wicked false Prophet and as a marked seruant of Antichrist haue vncharitably reuiled ye both for those former wordes as also that I that tearme you Donatistes Schismatikes c. If ye be Christs seruants and haue iustly accused condemned and cast forth doing no more that Christ hath sent ye for and authorised ye to doo then haue I vnchristianly and as a false Prophet indeede reuiled ye and your glorious sufferinges But then take this withall by the way that the Donatists in olde time and the Annabaptists of late daies were Christs poore afflicted

vpon ye to abandon and forsake as vtterly separated from the faith and from the Communion of Christ all the assemblies of the Church of England and all the particular members of the same thē a thicke couering of darkenes which the bright countenance of the great Iudge will pearce through and scatter Ye lye in prison not as Christs poore afflicted seruants but for this grieuous and outragious sinne which no flesh is able to defend or mitigate and for sundry other abuses as shall appear by your bookes I saide that the fearefull end of one Boltom about twentie yeares past would not be forgotten You haue heard as you say pag. 208 that he reuolted and became a conformable member of our Church and so fel into that fearefull estate Seeke better information Master Barrow seeing the example may touch ye for the trueth is he did for the same causes that you doo vtterly coudemne the whole Church of England and was with sundry other separated from it And as it is constantly affirmed he was an elder in their secret Church and ofterward falling into deepe dispaire he could not be recouered but did hang himselfe The mat●er which pressed him so sore was this that bee had iudged and condemned men better then himselfe Looke yee therefore vnto it in time and seeke repentance before the terror of God breake forth vpon ye and that it be to late for it is euident vnto all that haue any true light in them that your offence herein can haue no excuse or colour beare not your selues vpon other things in your bookes for it shall●ppeare that where yee thinke your selues most deuine there Satan hath most deepely deluded yee glorie not of any sufferings vnles yee will haue those also to glorie which are bound in bedli●● Hauing thus finished about wilfull obstinacie we come now to the fower principall accusations which ye bring against our Church The first is that we worship God after a false manner our worship being made of the inuention of man euen of that man of sinne erronious and imposed vpon vs. And here came the booke of common praier into question I did drawe your accusation into a Sillogisme and you accuse me to be so full of legiet d● main that ye had neede to looke to my fingers for ye say I haue left out certaine of your words as namely these wilfully obstinate and imposed Touthing these words wilfully obstinate looke Master Barrow in the fourth and fift pages of my booke and see whether I did not answer them where you haue expressely set them downe looke also vpon your own booke now printed and you shall finde that both in the accusation you haue omitted these words wilfully abstinate and also passed by mine answer vnto them Now when these two that is the omitting the words and passing by the answer vnto them doo concurre here is a great shew of legier du maine on your part and yet you would lay it vpon me that haue not giuen the least suspitiō therof And for the word imposed you say I leaue it out and put c. in the place thereof I doo indeede setdowne c for these words erronious and imposed vpon them but doo I leaue them out in handling the matter Looke in the tenth page and see whether I doo not charge ye with an Annabaptisticall freedome which ye are not able to auoyde for this worde imposed Master Barrow looke vppon them learne modestie and blush if not for conscience yet that these things must now lie open to the view of the world And for the booke of common Praier although the question betwéene vs was not whether there bee faultes in it but whether it ●e as you tearme it a great pregnant Idoll full of heresies blasphemies a bominations whether there be any heresies in it And whether the best part of it be none other but a peece of swines flesh an abomination to the Lord Yet you charge me as flying the trial by the word of God when I stand to iustifie by the word of God that in deede there is neither Idolatrie heresie nor blasphemie in it much lesse that it is full of them or the best part an abhomination For in mine answers and defence I doo not vndertake to cleare it of all faults hauing no occasion to meddle in that controuersie but to shew that there are no such faultes but that both the faithfull people of God haue and mayerre in also euen christian gouernours and teachers which are to reforme the church that if any doo see and be perswaded that they be corruptions and faultes yet not of that qualitie or degree as that they may for the same separate themselues from the fellowship of those which art otherwise minded this is the thing which I haue taken vpon mee to defend And if you Master Barrow wil not become a ranke heretick as if it please God you shall not to maintaine this opinion that we may not ioyne in that worship where wee finde any imperfections and errors holden and not reformed why doo you with wonderment crie out that this so large an exception of imperfections is the odde and onely exception that euer you heard of And doo you in very deede Master Barrow thinke that no such exception is to bee made but that where any error doth appeare in the worship a man is to separate himselfe Nay you will say when it is reproued and continued in and not reformed then a man is to forsake that Church as vtterly fallen from the couenant of God For they be obstinate and denie reformation Tell me then what if those that be to reforme be perswaded it is no error What if a great part of the multitude be so perswaded that it is no fault and so bee of diuerse mindes Will you deeme that you haue more skill to conuince them then the Apostles had Or will you refuse to ioyne as the Apostles did ioyne with the Church in Ierusalem that held and continued in a grosse error Doo you not see how by this your doctrine you open the doore as wide vnto all Schismaticks as euer did the Donatists or the Annabaptists seeing there will euer be errors and some that cannot be made to see them Will you not see how you contrarie Saint Paule directly who in whole chapters almost as I haue noted before dooth labour nothing else but to perswade the Christians that held diuers opinions touching some things in Gods worship yet to ioyne together Rom. 14. and 15. what a multitude of words with your accustomed reuilings and slanders haue you here heaped vp But I will deale onely with that which is not answered alreadie You charged our Church with Romish fasts I charged you with fal●e accusing because the Church of Rome most wickedly against the Crosse of Christ placeth the worship of God and the merite of eternall life in fasting which doctrine our Church vtterly condemneth You labour to shew faultes in