de Unit. eccl We must obey his Precepts and Admonitions that our Merits may receive their reward And in his Serm. de Eleem. If the day of our return shall find us unloadned swift and running in the way of good works our Lord will not fail to reward our merits 10. Protestants deny the possibility of keeping the Commandements which S. Basil orat in illud attende tibi calls a wicked thing to say S. Hierome on the 5. of S. Matthew Blasphemy S. Augustine serm 61. de tempore a denial both of the justice and holiness of God In the the third Age Tertullian as cited by the Centurists Cent. 3. says No Law could tye him who had not in his power due obedience to the Law This is a maxime in Philosophy wherefore Origen hom 9. in Jos sayes plainly the baptized may fulfil the Law in all things Now not to be more tedious or prolix in ciing either Passages or Fathers whose Quotations could easily make a just Volume of the Sacraments I have spoken in the former Section and of the Pastors of the Church their infallible Authority in a general Council in the third which with what is here said are the main things and most substantial denyed by Protestants but clearly asserted by the Fathers cited who all confessedly did live in the first three ages a very few excepted I have brought of the fourth and fifth age only as witnesses of what was practised in the Church before their time leaving the Canons of the Apostles and many things by Tradition from them conserved in the Church and witnessed by the Fathers with the Decrees of most holy Popes and Martyrs of the first and second Age as these of Anacletus Alexander Sixtus Telesphorus Pius Anicetus Soter c. holding out so many of our Tenets against Protestants and this to shun Cavils and Exceptions which they might take either at their writings or place as they do As for the same cause many other most renouned Authors as Policarpus Cornelius Prochorus Methodius Nilus Agapetus Dorotheus and others upon this only account with the Book of Hermes of whom S. Paul to the Romans Ch. 16. maketh mention called the Pastor which Hamelmanus and M. Hooker both Protestants grant to have been reckoned by the antient Fathers in the number of Ecclesiastical Books and particularly as seemeth to Hamelmanus by no less men then Irenaeus Clement and Origen Yet this Book in such esteem with them he will have to be impure as laying the ground of Purgatory Prayer for the dead Merit and Justification of Works of professed Chastity in Priests and Church-men of fasting from certain Meats at times c. But I hope M. Menzeis will make no exception against most Authors I have produced unless passing from his appeal to the Fathers of the first three ages he pass also from his second ground of Faith as certainly after all has been said he should do seeing I may justly speak home to him here with S. Augustine in his 11. Book against Julian the Pelagian Heretick c. 10. What the Catholick Fathers and Doctors have found in the Church that they hold what they have received from their forefathers that they have delivered to their children Whilest we had no debate as yet with you before them as Judges our case was pleaded amongst them we were not as yet contesting with you and nevertheless by their decree we have the victory over you Neither is this victory imaginary as that of M. Menzeis but real as the three Arguments I have brought make good which by way of recapitulation I set before him in this one Argument the Doctrine of the Church and writings of the Fathers in the first three Ages can be no ground to Protestants for what they teach First if the chief Reformers disown them Secondly if most learned Protestants accuse them of many Errours Thirdly If their own Writings in all controverted Tenets be flatly against Protestant Doctrine but all this is true from the places produced then their Writings can be no ground to them Yet Protestants will needs make up their Religion from the Writings of the Fathers as some Poets from the Centons and broken Verses of Virgil and Homer the life of Christ They challenge the Fathers for their Heresie upon a word or two picked out of places wherein they have an Orthodox sense In so many hundred Volumes of the Fathers writings that some word or passages seem to favour Heresie what wonder Gods own Word if we will stick to the naked Letter seeming to favour so many as we have seen above They oppose Fathers to Fathers and sometimes one to himself so they are possessed with the Spirit of contradiction that all may turn Problematick and be controverted among them They cite the Scriptures against the Fathers as if their new and giddy headed start-ups did better understand them then the most antient and solid Divines they will at times by passages of the Fathers or Scripture strive to condemn the practice of the Church and Decrees of Councils but whoever amongst the Fathers did so doth any one of the Fathers with the first Reformers oppose Scripture as understood by them to the Authority of the Church or to the same Scripture as explained by her Doth any of them attach the Roman Church of Errour To say such a Church so great and glorious in the Christian world did Apostatize and none did remark her Apostacy is like a general Eclipse of the Sun remarked by none The least Errours of particular Hereticks the Fathers have so narrowly sifted so sharply censured so solidly confuted and shall we think they have either not spyed or spared to censure the corruptions of a whole body and Church But let wise men and greatest Shcollars be at variance as they please about some places both of Scriptures and Fathers as surely it will be to the Worlds end God hath given us both a sure and short way promised by the Prophet wherein even ignorants and fools cannot err Christ having left us the present Catholick Church in all ages as the most faithful Depositary of his Doctrine and the Infallible Visible Judge of all that can be controverted in matters of Faith Before I end this Section to give you but a scantling with what sincerity and candor Hereticks cite the Fathers this I borrow from M Menzeis in his third paper where in general he most confidently says That whatever the antient Apologists as Justin Martyr Tertullian and Athenagoras have said for the Christian Religion the same Protestants may say for their own Whereupon having diligently read over the first of these Apologies which is that of Justin Martyr as any may do in an hour I have found him so grosly mistaken in citing this Father that I may justly say he could not more forfeit his reputation This I evidence in four chief Points asserted by us and denyed by Protestants The first is Free Will for which Justin in his Apology
he would have generally supposed to have been the first exchanged Paper with him but it is particularly known to us Mr. Dempster had never then intended to write a line But Mr. Menzeis cautious and conscious to himself that it had been easie to reverse his Grounds and Involve him in inextricable difficulties as shall hereafter appear if he had answered directly by word refuses the performance of his promise or to speak for the Protestant Religion at all but will only Impugne some Opinions of Authours in the School which are neither fit for the Pulpit where he did first challenge them nor the capacity of common hearers and much less that which he chiefly insisted on any Point of our Faith The first is That men are not bound presently to repent when ever they have offended God under the danger of incurring a new sin Whereupon Mr. Menzeis frameth his Argument as if this were a Dicision of the Catholick Roman Church and then sayes he Mr. Dempster denied the Major whence he took witness that the Jesuit admitted the Minor a rare Inference and quick He passeth under silence the confirmation of the Major denied because disgraceful to him who though he did think it a point of Faith and that so unquestionable yet could never prove it by Scripture contenting himself with a weak comparison which he is ashamed to set down in his Book But however Doctors vary in prescribing a limited time wherein we should repent all hold the shortest delay both surest and best and publick Repentance is generally taught to be necessary for publick transgressions as publick Recantations for open Calumnies like to that of Mr. Menzies against his Soveraign How long wilt thou mourn for Saul c. His Penitential Sermon being as yet to make so well doth he presently repent Yea not only his Practice but Doctrine also if truly a Protestant is so far from presently repenting that Teaching mens best actions to be sinful he must either confess repentance at no time to be commanded or else blasphemously avouch God hath commanded us to sin Is it not a jearing of Gods Commands and a scoffing of men to affirm the Commandements to be impossible and yet urge that even affirmative ones should be hourly and instanly kept Forgetting two Maxims of the School Nemo tenetur ad impossibile and Praecepta affirmitativa obligant semper sed non pro semper In the second Argument he both argues and and answers to himself Mr. Dempster being silenced by his clamours concerning the intention of Priests in administring the Sacraments which if requisite he will have it to make all Faith uncertain But in vain there being greater assurance of their intention then that Ministers use aright the Elements and pronounce the words or that they teach not false Doctrine and set not out corrupt Bibles The assistance of Gods Spirit promised to his Church and his particular Providence in Governing and Ruling it assures us nothing necessary either to Faith or Salvation can be wanting in her No want of Intention can wrong them who are come to age they may supply by their own Intentions Desires and Acts of the love of God And for children whom Protestants will have to be saved by the faith of their Parents and not by Baptism Is it not more sure that publick persons in the Church want not a right Intention then that private men have true Faith The conferring of a Sacrament is not only Actio Hominis I hope but also Humana as the Divines speak What then if a Mad man in a frolick or a Comedian for a jeer as we read to have been done in derision of Christians should pour out water on any one and pronounce the words yea what if a Priest shewing a new Convert how he is to be Baptized should do the same Were these lawful and valid Baptisms where nothing save the Intention is wanting It is easie to cavil at the chief Heads of the Christian Religion but hard to say any thing solidly against them After this he comes to his Apologies First for so much writing on so little purpose Answer he should have said so little to the purpose there scarce being ten lines precisely to the purpose in all his Papers and Book Secondly That he was not so speedy in Answering as Mr. Dempster upon his Incombacy's and upon deliberating whether he should answer the emptiness of Mr. Dempsters Scriblings who antidated his Papers yet that he might guess with Apelles at his great hast by his foul work Answer his greatest Imcombacy's as I am informed are but to dite and declaim Bellarmines Objections or such like out of other Controversy Books And if it be an empty Question to ask the Grounds of his Religion Sure it must be an empty Religion and void of Grounds Neither did Mr. Dempster Antidate his Papers but did write back to him as currantly as any man could do a missive Letter never intending they should see the Press and finding very little solidity in his Answers He guesses at his great hast by his foul work but can shew nothing foul in it save onely when he resumes his filthy scoldings but we may easily guess at his little wit by his Foolish Work and Answers no where to the purpose His third Apology is for the Acrimony and bitterness of his expressions which he sayes had their rise from Mr. Dempsters Dunghil Eloquence Repetitions Praeteritions Calumnies Answer Mr. Menzies scoldings are the only Eloquence of the Dunghil most Learned men oftentimes be not very Eloquent in the Vulgar Tongue As to his Repetitions he is no good Disputant who passes from his medium before the Argument be answered For Preteritions all wise men pass what is not to the purpose as most of his papers and Book And as for Calumnies I leave to his papers to justifie his modesty however Mr. Menzies most injuriously Calumniate him In his Epistle to the Reader he continues his Apologies for Disputing Writing Printing granting one might have said more in a very few sheets for the satisfaction of a lover of Truth then he in all his Papers and this is most true Nay but he has been constrained to follow the anomalous motions of a tautologizing Jesuit Answer These two words set together sound well in a Pulpit but signifie nothing or little for how can his motion be anomalous or irregular who steers still to the same point constantly propounding the same thing Or how can he be said to Tautologize and use idle Repetitions who insists still in the same question till he get a full and satisfactory Answer as if a man come to require his money from a Debtor should hear from him many news of the late Wars and then asking again his money the Debtor should speak of our new League with many Forraign Princes But the Creditor still mindful of the main did reiterate the occasion of his coming and ask a new when he could expect his money were this
a tautologizing and vain repetition And in this sense I grant Mr. Dempster tautologizes and in no other But are not rather Mr. Menzies many Instances in this his Epistle against the Catholick Faith and so many times repeated in his Book both tautologies and anomalous motions as altogether false frivolous idle and impertinent to the present Question concerning the Grounds of the protestant Religion wherefore I reflect only on the last viz. That Popish Principles as improven by the Jesuited party are highly injurious to Princes Ergo The Protestant Religion hath solid grounds for this should be his Inference in all he sayes And this an arch Covenanter is not ashamed to write who so treasonably and publickly did preach against his lawful Soveraign but the love and esteem so many of the Greatest and Wisest Monarches in the Christian World have for Jesuits sufficiently vindicate them from all the Calumnies of such a disloyal person After this he sayes If he know his own genius well he takes no pleasure in altercations Answer He is then of a most austere Nature who so shuns all pleasure for it seems Mr. Menzeis lives in altercations as the Salamander in the fire all his Preachings and Writings being full of them He delights so to cavil that he lets not pass Mr. Dempsters Orthographick trespasses which should have been at most imputed to his Amanuensis or Scriviner But if Mr. Menzeis were as Orthodox as Orthographick all were well In his voyage to London to complement the Usurper he made himself Orthographick in the English Tongue but coming down an Independent he was far from an Orthodox mind yet thinks to keep up some reputation amongst Protestants by his Imputations on Jesuits No hope sayes he of prevailing with the Jesuited Faction whose Design as appears is to keep up a stated Schism in Christendom they hinder the conversion of Jews and Infidels Answer No Sir it is only the Hidra of Heresy and chiefly yours divided in so many heads keeps up Schism and Division from the Church and amongst themselves which Monster Jesuits strive to suppress they yea one of them called Saint Francis Xavier hath converted more Infidels to the Christian and Catholick Religion in ten years time then all the Protestants in the World for a hundred and fifty if all Records of History be more worthy of credit then you The conversion of Jews Infidels Hereticks as ever in old times so constantly now is a mark of the true Church to which Hereticks can no wise pretend whose business is to pervert Catholicks rather then to convert Infidels as Saint Hierome well remarks so that in all prudence this he should not have mentioned his younger brethren the Jansenists of whom he borrows most of his Objections against Jesuits speak not of this being no little ashamed when yearly the notable conversions of so many thousand Infidels only by Jesuits and other Priests in Communion with the Sea of Rome come out wherein neither they nor he have any hand Next amongst many controverted points obstructive to the peace and unity of the Catholick Church he sets down first the Churches Infallibility as if the true Church were not infallible both according to the Scripture and Fathers as I shall God willing hereafter prove at length or as if the Church being infallible peace and unity could not be had Secondly the Popes Universal Supremacy as obstructing Unity forgetting what St. Hierome sayes l. 1. in Jovin That even amongst the Apostels themselves one was made head that the occasion of Schism and Division might be taken away Ut capite constituto Schismatis tolleretur occasio Doth the Popes Supremacy in the whole Church hinder peace and unity more then my Lord Archbishops Primacy in the Kingdom Is not this a fling at Bishops in their Diocesses and the Primate in each Nation to say their Supremacy over inferiour Pastors is a let and stop to Peace and Unity in the Church So all Covenanting Ministers speak with him the Unity they aim at being nothing but a Monopoly to set themselves above Pope and Primate upon the ruines of both Church and State Are not these strong and witty Objections put in the Frontispiece of his Book as in the Van The rest I prosecute not they being the ordinary controverted Tenets betwixt Protestants and us answered in every Pamplet of Controversie but the last is too remarkable to let it pass Nay says he Is it not one of the first Queries wherewith Jesuites do assault our people how do you know Scripture to be the word of God As if they would have people rather turn Atheists then remain Protestants A very pretty Reply shews not this his Answer Jesuits and others have great reason to move the Question to which so great a Divine can not better reply Protestants call Scripture their ground of Faith but can evidence by no sufficient Motive of Credibility standing to their principles this Book they call Scripture is the true and Authentick Word of God should not Mr. Menzeis then have setled cleared and vindicated from all Objections and Cavils this his ground but that could have diverted him from Impugning the Romish Faith no it would have done more against it then all his Calumnies of Idolatry being more to the purpose yea ended to the Protestants great advantage all the present debate but all Mr. Menzeis can answer is to call the question Atheistical and a demand proper to Infidels as if good Christians might not ask for Instruction how they may prudently believe and firmly adhere to the grounds of their Religion and Faith In fine he says Many Romanists have called for Reformation Answer true and do as yet daily call for Reformation in Life and Manners but not in matters of belief none of them with Protestants presuming to correct Gods Word and reform the Doctrine of his Church or to censure their Pastors and all the Ancient Fathers with Pharisaical and Puritanical pride This way of calling for Reformation was proper to protestants at their first rise for reforming the Catholick Roman Church and again in the Covenant for the reforming their own They like Foxes indeed to use Mr. Menzeis comparison did raise such dust not to say worse with their tails and heads both that ever since the very air they breath is infected and their eyes so blinded that they cannot open them to see the manifest truth After all this fearing his Book may have a reply he desires all things then be noticed he hath said Answer No this his demand is most unreasonable that at the time one only question is in debate and that a main one concerning the Grounds of the Protestant Religion any thing else should be taken notice of till this be put to a closure On this all the Protestant Religion depends let their grounds be proved solid and we have done for by that we look not on his Digressions as Golden Apples to make us run out of our way in
the least they being scarce like to the Apples of Sodom in his confused Rapsody that is pleasant to the eye though no less rotten in the heart as who has best right to the Root and Tree may justly claim the Branches and Fruit so whoever proves he hath the true Grounds of Religion may easily prove all Superstructures on this ground to be true the accessary followeth the principal and this is the chief and principal question amongst us let this be once decided in their favour and we have no more process with them Secondly he desires nothing be brought has been answered by Protestants Answer if he had given example in this he had never written a line However if any thing has been solidly answered to what I bring against his great principle of no Infallible visible Judge of Controversie or both his grounds as I most sincerely protest it never did come to my hands so let Mr. Menzeis send it me and here an end Thirdly That personal Criminations be laid aside Answer then these personal Criminations when he calls Mr. Dempster a dull and Lethargy-head a Neat-herd a man of a Prostitute reputation a Knave a Sycophant a Devil should have been blotted out of his Book As Infamous persons are not received for witnesses so Calumnies can be no wise sooner refuted then by shewing that he who calumniates has lost all reputation and credit If it were not softly insinuated what a quick wit Mr. Menzeis is who names Mr. Dempster a dull and Lethargy-head How learned a Pastor who calls him a Neat-herd how famous who challenges him to be of a prostitute reputation how honest who calls him a Rogue and a Knave how sincere and ingenuous who terms him a Sycophant and how great a Saint who compares him to a Devil his sole authority in Print might perhaps endanger Mr. Dempsters good name wherefore he must not take ill a little hath been said of this not for Criminations but as Answers to Calumnies and notorious falshoods especially his Apology being the greatest of his wrongs as if Mr. Dempster had extorted them he was forced to it because for sooth he can suffer no man to withstand him or not to be satisfied with what he brings This is all the Injury we read in Mr. Dempsters papers which can be no excuse certainly to him who easily foreseeing what might be replyed dare glory with Job he takes injuries for a Crown citing as a Heroick word in Luther Indies magis mihi placeo superbus fio quod video nomen pessimum mihi crescere I please my self more and more daily yea I become proud to see that I have got a very ill name and that it grows upon me which if true his pleasure may be great and his pride too for few of his coat after Luther have got a worse name for changes in Religion Jars and contentions with his brethren disobedience to his Bishop and disloyalty to his Prince Here presently to set up his good name a little he playes the Prophet striving to pry into Mr. Dempsters Intentions and thoughts why he slighted all the points stated by him and Instances only that he should prove there be two Sacraments and no more but here the Spirit fails him in all his Divinations the only reason of this being for that all other controverted Tenets with Protestants are borrowed from divers old condemned Heresies and this only proper to them However Mr. Dempster should have proved seven Sacraments Answer No not this or any thing else in the present dispute as not to the purpose save only that Protestants for their Religion could shew no solid ground this he sticks to this he insists upon and this only whilest Mr. Menzeis like a Bird ever upon wing flies from branch to branch a mark of no great Constancy and Solidity either in Wit or Learning But he will needs bring in the Romish Religion by the head and shoulders upon the Stage and have Mr. Dempster to decline it be tryed by Scripture and the Doctrine of the Church in the first three ages Answer The Romish Religion has no part in the present Scene neither is Master Dempster acting any thing directly in defence of it but Impugning the Protestant grounds and this Mr. Menzeis in his first answer clearly grants his words are The Thesis then which we defend and you impugne is this The Protestant Religion is the true Religion No mention here of the Catholick Roman Faith and yet Mr. Menzeis in all his papers and Books speaks very little for the Protestant Religion but always against the Popish laying aside the Thesis which he sets down himself as his Text so often in the Pulpit to rail at random against us And this with a like Sincerity and Candor as when he says Quakerism is but Popery under a disguise Answer then most men mistake it thinking it so far from Popery under what ever disguise that it is nothing but Puritanism in puris naturalibus and undisguised Is the private Spirit our Ground and Guide Do we allow Laicks and Women to preach or private persons whatsoever upon pretence of New Gospel Light to reform the Church This Presbyterians and Puritans in the beginning of the Reformation and again in the Covenant did with them Yea on the same very ground of adhering to the pure Word and to the Spirit and Light within them against all Authority in Church and State Is not this the Quakers chief Argument against Protestants when they ask their Power and Call We are come to Reform you say they and all your Hirelings even as you the Papists and Priests We ground our selves on the pure and naked Word the Spirit speaketh within us we regard not men Church Councels Fathers have erred Which Answer Mr. Menzeis if constant to his own principles with all his Needle-headed Nicities as he speaks will hardly refute In fine he sayes Romanists boast his Papers shall have an Answer these six Moneths might have done it Our Reply will discover we apprehend some danger c. Answer Few Romanists do think his papers deserve a Reply yea nor their pains to read them as saying little to the purpose much less do they esteem the enterprise to answer them so high as it should be called a boast He who rather contends with us in solidity of reason then celerity of dispatch will neverthleess have this expected answer six Moneths before his Book did appear at which time he makes the Magistrates command the Stationer under the highest pains that he should Print no Reply Yet after his Book has been a twelve moneth under the Press at home we may have a Book Printed at a start abroad neither is there such hast in replying for any danger we apprehend his railings never having wronged Catholicks in the least but much Protesiants many whereof have turned Quakers to hear Tub-preachers professing greater Modesty Sincerity yea and Solidity in belief then he who by his frequent changes in