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A90658 A reply to a confutation of some grounds for infants baptisme: as also, concerning the form of a church, put forth against mee by one Thomas Lamb. Hereunto is added, a discourse of the verity and validity of infants baptisme, wherein I endeavour to clear it in it self: as also in the ministery administrating it, and the manner of administration, by sprinkling, and not dipping; with sundry other particulars handled herein. / By George Philips of Watertown in New England. Phillips, George, 1593-1644. 1645 (1645) Wing P2026; Thomason E287_4; ESTC R200088 141,673 168

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therefore_o propound_v to_o consideration_n what_o i_o have_v observe_v intend_v not_o to_o say_v all_o nor_o to_o quote_v their_o say_n at_o large_a but_o to_o give_v some_o reference_n only_o and_o in_o this_o order_n first_o i_o will_v set_v down_o the_o judgement_n of_o single_a learned_a man_n in_o their_o writing_n second_o the_o consent_n of_o whole_a assembly_n and_o three_o the_o practice_n of_o all_o church_n in_o all_o age_n first_o that_o infant_n have_v be_v and_o aught_o to_o be_v baptize_v receive_v confirmation_n from_o testimony_n of_o all_o ancient_a writer_n which_o i_o have_v be_v able_a to_o take_v notice_n of_o as_o appear_v by_o these_o place_n justin_n mart._n in_o quaestion_n orthodox_n tertul._n lib._n de_fw-la baptismo_fw-la cap._n 18._o pag._n 225._o see_v junius_n note_v also_o upon_o it_o pag._n 157._o dionysius_n areop_n quote_v by_o thom._n 3._o qu._n 68_o art_n 9_o origen_n affirm_v that_o the_o church_n have_v it_o from_o the_o apostle_n hom_n 2._o in_o ps_n 38_o &_o in_o levit._n hom_n 8._o &_o in_o 6._o ad_fw-la rom._n cyprian_n epist_n lib._n 3.8_o epist_n ad_fw-la fidum_fw-la item_n epist_n in_o the_o first_o tome_n of_o counsel_n pag._n 240._o cyril_n upon_o leu._n 8._o syricius_n epist_n in_o first_o tome_n of_o counsel_n capit._n 1._o pag._n 493._o hieron_n lib._n 4._o in_o ezek._n 16._o idem_fw-la lib._n 3._o contra_fw-la pelag._n idem_fw-la epist_n ad_fw-la laetam_fw-la aug._n in_o enchirid._n cap._n 42.43.51.65_o in_o lib._n the_o definit_a orthodox_n fidei_fw-la cap._n 21._o de_fw-la fide_fw-la ad_fw-la petrum_fw-la cap._n 24.27.38_o idem_fw-la lib._n 4._o de_fw-la baptismo_fw-la contra_fw-la donatist_n cap._n 14._o and_o in_o many_o other_o place_n and_o against_o donatist_n lib._n 4._o cap._n 23._o he_o have_v these_o word_n the_o baptism_n of_o infant_n be_v not_o derive_v from_o the_o authority_n of_o man_n nor_o of_o counsel_n but_o from_o the_o tradition_n and_o doctrine_n of_o the_o apostle_n greg._n nazian_n de_fw-fr sacro_fw-la lavacro_fw-la orat_fw-la 3._o ambros_n de_fw-fr abraha_n lib._n 2._o cap._n 11._o jeron_n critobul_n contra_fw-la pelag._n lib._n 3._o etc._n etc._n second_o the_o attestation_n of_o whole_a assembly_n declare_v as_o much_o not_o ordain_v but_o bear_v witness_n unto_o it_o upon_o special_a occasion_n as_o the_o day_n and_o time_n of_o the_o year_n etc._n etc._n when_o they_o shall_v be_v baptize_v apostol_n constitut_o lib._n 6._o cap._n 15._o sub_fw-la finem_fw-la pag._n 92._o council_n melevitan_n cap._n 2._o p._n 555._o council_n african_n cap._n 77._o pap_n 584._o epist_n concilii_fw-la carthag_n contra_fw-la caelest_n &_o pelag._n p._n 542._o council_n carthag_n quint._n cap._n 6._o pag._n 520._o three_o the_o practice_n of_o all_o church_n consent_v hereto_o in_o the_o african_a church_n they_o use_v to_o baptize_v infant_n as_o athanasius_n testify_v quaest_n 124._o the_o same_o be_v use_v in_o the_o asian_a church_n as_o nazianzen_n affirm_v and_o the_o magdeburgen_n in_o their_o century_n observe_v that_o in_o the_o first_o hundred_o year_n after_o christ_n infant_n be_v baptize_v nor_o be_v it_o take_v notice_n of_o in_o that_o age_n that_o infant_n be_v exclude_v from_o baptism_n and_o so_o continue_v in_o all_o age_n to_o this_o day_n and_o though_o the_o eastern_a and_o western_a church_n separate_v and_o do_v hold_v several_a opinion_n and_o rite_n differ_v one_o from_o another_o yet_o neither_o omit_v the_o baptise_v of_o infant_n among_o the_o eastern_a and_o african_a christian_n whereof_o there_o be_v some_o whole_a kingdom_n and_o very_o many_o in_o several_a kingdom_n scatter_v here_o and_o there_o in_o company_n and_o divide_v among_o themselves_o into_o eleven_o observable_a faction_n and_o fraction_n yet_o have_v they_o all_o successive_o hold_v &_o do_v hold_v baptise_v infant_n with_o some_o difference_n i_o confess_v some_o not_o baptise_v male_n afore_o forty_o day_n nor_o female_n before_o eighty_o though_o they_o die_v before_o some_o not_o before_o except_o in_o case_n of_o necessity_n some_o soon_o but_o none_o late_a that_o i_o have_v observe_v in_o like_a manner_n the_o western_a church_n have_v have_v and_o have_v some_o difference_n in_o some_o rite_n and_o ceremony_n yet_o not_o at_o all_o in_o the_o point_n of_o baptise_v infant_n and_o as_o in_o the_o eastern_a church_n before_o and_o after_o separation_n from_o the_o rest_n and_o never_o yield_a subjection_n to_o the_o pope_n of_o rome_n so_o in_o the_o western_a it_o be_v evident_a that_o it_o be_v every_o where_o and_o always_o practise_v before_o the_o exaltation_n of_o that_o antichrist_n upon_o which_o consideration_n i_o count_v it_o a_o defect_n of_o modesty_n and_o charity_n to_o call_v this_o practice_n antichristian_a and_o humane_a invention_n and_o to_o wave_v such_o light_n of_o all_o age_n in_o so_o weighty_a and_o plain_a a_o case_n agreeable_a to_o the_o evidence_n of_o former_a argument_n for_o close_v of_o the_o argument_n i_o shall_v say_v this_o more_o the_o first_o that_o deny_v the_o baptism_n of_o infant_n and_o oppose_v the_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n in_o this_o case_n be_v one_o auxentius_n a_o arrian_n with_o his_o adherent_n who_o die_v about_o 380._o year_n after_o christ_n as_o mr._n philpot_n the_o martyr_n of_o jesus_n note_v in_o a_o epistle_n of_o he_o write_v out_o of_o prison_n to_o a_o fellow-prisoner_n of_o he_o about_o the_o point_n so_o mr._n fox_n relate_v in_o his_o book_n of_o martyr_n ad_fw-la a_o 1555._o bullinger_n after_o affirm_v the_o same_o tom._n 3._o serm_n 8._o decad_n quint._n after_o he_o the_o pelagian_o and_o donatist_n oppose_v it_o against_o who_o augustin_n beside_o other_o write_v and_o defend_v it_o the_o pelagian_o deny_v it_o upon_o this_o ground_n that_o infant_n have_v no_o original_a sin_n and_o in_o bernard_n time_n one_o peter_n abilaird_n among_o many_o other_o gross_a opinion_n wherein_o he_o say_v he_o be_v magis_fw-la arrius_n quam_fw-la arrius_n hold_v this_o also_o that_o infant_n be_v not_o to_o be_v baptize_v epist_n 190_o etc._n etc._n and_o it_o be_v not_o unworthy_a consideration_n that_o in_o the_o several_a age_n wherein_o this_o practice_n be_v gainsay_v it_o be_v by_o such_o who_o in_o other_o thing_n be_v gross_o erroneous_a as_o most_o anabaptist_n at_o this_o day_n and_o thus_o far_o of_o my_o ground_n for_o baptise_v infant_n i_o next_o come_v to_o speak_v of_o a_o few_o thing_n to_o the_o manner_n of_o baptise_v whether_o it_o ought_v to_o be_v with_o dip_v and_o may_v not_o be_v with_o sprinkle_v only_o that_o dip_v have_v be_v in_o use_n in_o some_o age_n and_o place_n be_v out_o of_o question_n and_o dip_v thrice_o also_o story_n relate_v but_o that_o it_o be_v institute_v and_o so_o belong_v to_o the_o essential_o of_o baptism_n i_o be_o not_o convince_v for_o as_o i_o will_v have_v no_o man_n to_o yield_v to_o humane_a apprehension_n without_o god_n word_n so_o unless_o it_o can_v be_v prove_v from_o scripture_n i_o desire_v i_o may_v have_v the_o same_o leave_n i_o give_v other_o to_o reserve_v my_o faith_n for_o divine_a authority_n to_o captivate_v my_o faith_n hereto_o i_o observe_v these_o thing_n press_v first_o the_o word_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d which_o they_o say_v signify_v to_o dip_v and_o therefore_o to_o baptize_v be_v to_o dip_v and_o not_o to_o sprinkle_v many_o place_n be_v bring_v to_o this_o purpose_n wherein_o the_o word_n be_v so_o translate_v and_o must_v be_v so_o take_v to_o which_o i_o answer_v the_o word_n i_o grant_v be_v so_o translate_v and_o must_v be_v so_o take_v in_o some_o place_n but_o it_o be_v not_o always_o so_o translate_v nor_o can_v be_v so_o take_v as_o heb._n 9.10_o with_o divers_a baptism_n some_o of_o these_o be_v with_o sprinkle_v heb._n 9.13_o compare_v with_o numb_a 19.11_o 17_o etc._n etc._n 1_o cor._n 10.2_o they_o be_v baptize_v into_o moses_n in_o the_o cloud_n and_o in_o the_o sea_n it_o be_v not_o they_o be_v dive_v and_o dip_v into_o they_o mar._n 1.8_o i_o baptize_v you_o with_o water_n but_o he_o shall_v baptize_v you_o with_o the_o holy_a ghost_n and_o with_o fire_n now_o this_o be_v not_o to_o be_v dip_v with_o the_o holy_a ghost_n and_o with_o fire_n but_o sprinkle_v as_o be_v foretold_v and_o why_o may_v it_o not_o be_v translate_v i_o sprinkle_v you_o with_o water_n as_o well_o as_o it_o must_v be_v sprinkle_v with_o the_o holy_a ghost_n pour_v on_o you_o again_o act_v 1.5_o &_o 10.16_o in_o the_o last_o place_n of_o both_o clause_n it_o must_v be_v understand_v sprinkle_v not_o dip_v and_o why_o may_v it_o not_o be_v take_v for_o sprinkle_v in_o the_o two_o former_a howsoever_o the_o word_n be_v not_o always_o to_o be_v translate_v dip_v appear_v by_o these_o place_n but_o may_v and_o must_v be_v translate_v sprinkle_v and_o so_o the_o force_n of_o the_o word_n do_v not_o
myself_o towards_o he_o i_o leave_v to_o he_o to_o manifest_v or_o to_o be_v reveal_v when_o all_o secret_n shall_v be_v make_v know_v the_o issue_n be_v that_o he_o have_v nothing_o to_o say_v only_o for_o his_o better_a consideration_n he_o desire_v that_o i_o will_v pen_v down_o those_o argument_n that_o have_v pass_v betwixt_o we_o on_o my_o part_n i_o willing_o not_o suspect_v such_o a_o event_n yield_v and_o in_o a_o piece_n of_o paper_n send_v they_o unto_o he_o expect_v that_o he_o will_v have_v attend_v a_o further_a conference_n with_o i_o about_o the_o matter_n but_o have_v get_v my_o paper_n and_o transcribe_v it_o he_o communicate_v it_o to_o some_o that_o be_v contrary_a to_o my_o apprehension_n in_o these_o point_n and_o either_o himself_o or_o some_o other_o by_o his_o mean_n send_v they_o into_o england_n whether_o to_o this_o confuter_n or_o who_o else_o i_o know_v not_o but_o this_o i_o be_o certain_a it_o have_v be_v thus_o divulge_v and_o not_o write_v with_o my_o own_o hand_n nor_o subscribe_v by_o my_o name_n so_o far_o as_o i_o can_v remember_v and_o concern_v the_o proposition_n themselves_o and_o argument_n here_o express_v i_o can_v say_v that_o here_o be_v all_o i_o write_v or_o that_o i_o write_v all_o that_o be_v here_o have_v not_o the_o writing_n i_o give_v he_o nor_o a_o copy_n thereof_o that_o i_o can_v find_v with_o i_o only_a so_o far_o as_o i_o shall_v question_v any_o thing_n i_o will_v give_v notice_n thereof_o as_o i_o shall_v meet_v with_o it_o and_o have_v premise_v thus_o much_o i_o come_v to_o the_o book_n and_o therein_o pasf_v by_o the_o title_n page_n first_o to_o the_o epistle_n prefix_v and_o second_o to_o the_o discourse_n itself_o concern_v the_o epistle_n i_o observe_v these_o thing_n first_o the_o mean_n of_o god_n glory_n and_o man_n happiness_n second_o the_o order_n how_o these_o mean_n be_v o_o be_v improve_v and_o dispense_v three_o the_o ground_n of_o his_o writing_n this_o book_n with_o the_o conclusion_n 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minister_n policy_n to_o corrupt_v true_a religion_n and_o counterfeit_v a_o false_a religion_n under_o pretence_n of_o the_o true_a to_o cozen_v cheat_n and_o deceive_v poor_a soul_n with_o chaff_n instead_o of_o wheat_n etc._n etc._n it_o be_v a_o certain_a truth_n as_o the_o scripture_n and_o experience_n of_o all_o age_n and_o of_o this_o wherein_o we_o live_v do_v too_o woeful_o manifest_a and_o i_o wish_v himself_o be_v none_o of_o the_o number_n as_o hearty_o as_o i_o pray_v for_o myself_o from_o this_o discourse_n he_o deduce_v nine_o conclusion_n to_o which_o i_o can_v subscribe_v under_o these_o consideration_n to_o the_o first_o taking_z religion_n and_o please_v of_o god_n in_o a_o strict_a and_o peculiar_a sense_n otherwise_o i_o do_v not_o see_v a_o ground_n of_o difference_n between_o sin_n and_o duty_n material_o to_o the_o second_o and_o three_o the_o bond_n of_o obedience_n lie_v upon_o all_o man_n who_o therefore_o be_v to_o be_v teach_v in_o the_o law_n that_o 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then_o to_o baptize_v man_n convert_v profess_v their_o faith_n and_o not_o before_o by_o which_o as_o the_o end_n of_o baptism_n they_o may_v be_v distinguish_v as_o by_o a_o badge_n or_o livery_n to_o belong_v to_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n to_o this_o in_o a_o word_n i_o say_v thus_o much_o that_o there_o be_v a_o distinction_n to_o be_v make_v between_o a_o company_n to_o be_v convert_v and_o to_o be_v constitute_v and_o a_o church_n now_o constitute_v in_o a_o company_n to_o be_v convert_v and_o to_o be_v constitute_v that_o which_o be_v say_v be_v true_a the_o gospel_n must_v first_o be_v preach_v and_o by_o faith_n receive_v and_o profess_v and_o then_o they_o be_v to_o be_v seal_v and_o not_o before_o but_o in_o a_o church_n now_o constitute_v the_o like_a be_v not_o require_v but_o the_o church_n be_v propagate_v by_o continual_a succession_n till_o god_n out_o they_o off_o thus_o be_v it_o with_o abraham_n and_o his_o family_n the_o gospel_n be_v preach_v to_o he_o and_o 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i_o hope_v i_o shall_v prove_v it_o be_v no_o humane_a device_n for_o any_o thing_n we_o can_v prove_v to_o be_v divine_a in_o the_o administration_n in_o england_n i_o suppose_v our_o former_a practice_n and_o present_a state_n do_v full_o acquit_v we_o from_o give_v our_o allowance_n thereto_o but_o i_o shall_v have_v occasion_n to_o speak_v something_o likewise_o about_o this_o afterward_o and_o in_o a_o word_n concern_v the_o occasion_n of_o his_o writing_n this_o treatise_n he_o express_v among_o other_o the_o miserable_a witchery_n and_o delusion_n of_o satan_n which_o he_o have_v speak_v of_o before_o and_o intend_v to_o wrap_v up_o myself_o and_o all_o other_o god_n servant_n and_o saint_n in_o old_a england_n and_o here_o in_o new_a with_o all_o our_o way_n of_o religion_n and_o worship_n wherein_o we_o desire_v to_o glorify_v the_o lord_n to_o all_o which_o i_o shall_v spare_v to_o answer_v leave_v any_o that_o desire_v satisfaction_n in_o the_o case_n as_o it_o concern_v we_o here_o or_o they_o there_o to_o a_o discourse_n i_o have_v write_v about_o that_o matter_n in_o justification_n of_o infant_n baptism_n with_o the_o call_n of_o minister_n here_o and_o there_o and_o their_o adminstration_n and_o leave_v he_o to_o the_o lord_n who_o shall_v judge_v we_o all_o only_o i_o wish_v he_o to_o consider_v his_o own_o word_n that_o if_o it_o be_v without_o cause_n that_o he_o thus_o traduce_v and_o power_v out_o his_o distaste_n against_o we_o he_o hurt_v himself_o more_o than_o he_o do_v we_o and_o will_v be_v find_v to_o kick_v against_o the_o prick_n and_o it_o may_v be_v he_o shall_v not_o find_v it_o so_o easy_a a_o matter_n to_o answer_v all_o that_o he_o have_v here_o at_o random_n write_v and_o in_o his_o confutation_n