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A12919 A discourse wherin is debated whether it be expedient that the scripture should be in English for al men to reade that wyll Fyrst reade this booke with an indifferent eye, and then approue or condempne, as God shall moue your heart. Standish, John, 1507?-1570. 1554 (1554) STC 23207; ESTC S117827 41,170 164

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techers and some learners But these quite turne vp side doune the right ordre of Christes churche the one part medling with the others office the more blinde the more bolde the more ignoraunte the more busie the lesse witte the more inquisitiue the more leude the more bablynge of great doubtes and high questions of Christes Sacramentes and of his priuye and vnsearcheable mysteries and that oft most presumptuously with out al reuerence or godly feare bothe at drinkinge and eating as though it were but a Canterburye tale and that when the ale is in the witte is oute Then flowe furthe manye errours and heresies Then are the simple catched in the snare of the Deuyll without hope of recouerie And all this alas and woe is me haue we ful experince of in these yeares paste But nowe thankes bee to Iesus Christe that by his onelye might and power when it was paste all mans helpe hath deliuered vs from the Deuill and the bondage of Pharao and brought vs furthe of darknes of scismes and heresies into the cleare light of the trueth againe by sendynge vs oure blessed queene Mary euen another Helena to bringe againe the holye crosse whiche euen from her infancie hath sticked faste and cleued surelye vnto the sounde piller of trueth the catholyke churche whiche wyll neuer faile she hathe euer defended it to the vttermost of her power Lorde graunt her longe life to continue the same and graunte her ioyfull deliueraunce of her moste comfortable burden When God of his great mercye sente her to be our liege ladye our quene and gouernesse then we receyued of him as great a benefit as euer did the Israelites of Hester or Iudith O lord before her comminge the churche was troden downe and pitifully spitfully I might saye spoyled by might by tiranny heresy the great Deuyl was let lose al was quite plucked vp by the rotes vnder the colour and false name of vice superstition and ydolatrie they vtterlye destroyed all deuotion all vertue and godlye religion The feareful Serpent Python that greuous dragon with manye heades mencioned of in the Apocalips did still persecute the woman in the sun That is to say our mother the church deuourynge her children here in this realme incessauntly tyll Gods merciful pitie gods pitiful mercy did electe send this blessed woman Mary our Queene in stede of Michael tharchāgel to ouerthrow him to restore his temple and furnishe agayne his house which now of late within these .xxii. yeares was here in Englande worse spoiled and defaced then euer was his temple at Hierusalem eyther by the Chaldies or by Antiochus Marye therefore oure noble queene God him selfe dyd appointe euen as he did Iosue Esdras or Iudas Machabeus to bringe vs into the ryghte waye agayne towarde the land of promise for we were farre strayed amisse throughe synne auarice ▪ and lecherye and to reedifie his temple through her wisedome she beynge the perfit mirrour and pearle of all christian queenes and princes Yea and if the olde prouerbe be true as it is most true in dede whiche sayeth euery prince is to his realme subiectes ether a very precious Iuell or els a deadlye poyson because suche as the prince is suche will the people laboure to be whether it be in vertue or vice What a precious Iewell then haue we receyued of God in receyuynge her noble estate to be our ladye queene an example of all vertue deuotion and prayer a spectacle to al realmes And suerly the common voice is that her grace is not onelye moste noble moste vertuous moste wittie and moste studious but also moste excellent in learning farre passinge eyther the noble Romaines Cornelia Hortensia or the godly learned womē of whom S. Hierome writeth Eustochium Paula and Blesilla Therefore if queene Saba iustlye sayde it was a signe that God loued his people ● Barall 9. for sendynge them Salomon to raygne ouer thē maye not we as iustly now say the same to Englande And yf the wisdome pietie and vertue of Onias was sayde to be the cause of the prosperous estate of their citie 2. Mach. 2. shall not we likewise saye to this our realme Besides this Roma 12. if gouernours be highlye praysed in scripture whiche rule with great solicitude and carefulnesse what shal we then saye to her whiche for all our wealthes bothe bodilye and ghostly is styll moste vigilant and carefull And finallye nowe to conclude if amonge the heathen the noble Princes haue euer highlye been extolled for sundrie vertues howe highly is she worthie thē to be extolled for so plentifull and so manifolde kindes of vertue Whiche doeth not onely excell in godlynesse in deuotion in prayer in fastyng in abstinence in humilitie in charitie in mercie pitie and compassion in discretion in knowledge in wisedom in excellencie of witte beinge of no small studie in godly literature but beinge of exquisite learnynge of profounde knowledge of exacte iudgement beside notable diligence and great painfulnesse euen frō her childhode as for her pollicie and affayres of the realme in settinge furthe the wealthe and commoditie thereof and in defendinge vs from outwarde and inwarde enemies I speake not of but also whiche doeth farre passe all other as it is euidently seen in her most godly innated zeale that she beareth styll moste earnest towarde the vnitie and faythe of Christes trew religion and towarde the cheife head therof vnder Christ whiche by the space of these xx yeres euen tyll she came was banished this realme throughe scisme and heresie through couetousnes and letcherye Lorde be mercifull vnto vs. Wherfore if in the Gospel of S Luke many holy womē for godlines deuotiō and zeale toward Christes church be highly praysed by name likewise in thactes of the Apostles and in the laste Chapter to the Romans yea and if S. Hierom wrote a whole booke of suche holye and vertuous women what lesse prayse is her highnes worthye now to haue being inferiour to none of the all being euin now amonge al princeli womē in the worlde a verye Phenix But I wyll let this passe I wyl say no more but only this that the doughter maye welbe knowen by the Mother and that as we fell from all goodnes at the moste vniust fall of her Mother that most noble Lady Queene Catheryn So doe we nowe rise agayne at the moste iuste risinge agayne of her noble estate to the Crowne of Englande So that in her moste godlye person is shut vp all our worldly ioye comfort and hope whom with her most noble vertuous husbande Philip our Lord King not much inferiour to her highnes in grace vertue and godlynes as credible menne reporte Iesu longe prosper in honoure grace and vertue daylye increasinge But nowe to the processe intendid The fyrst Chaptre Scripture is very harde to be vnderstande IF nothing els shuld moue the Scripture to be takē furthe of the irreuerente and lewde handling of the multitude
were then writen in the hertes of the faythfull but sone after when through synne it begāne to wax colde then was writing for the simples sake to preserue theyr faith and yet that not withstanding the authorite of the church the fundacion of all treuth of as greate strenght as it was before the new testament was all writen For were there not heretikes I pray you which denyed diuerse bokes of scripture as Martion and other wherewith were they subdued euyn with verities not written Marke wel that Moyses saith Origene greatly passed not for the letter writen when he dyd breake the tables nor Christe when he sayd to the Iewes the scripture shal be takē from you spake of the letter whiche they kepe styl but of the sense Wherfore awaye with the englishe damnable translation and lette them lerne the mysteries of god reuerently by hert and lerne to geue as muche credit to that whiche is not expressed as to that which is expressed in scripture Knowing that in .iij. pointes thautoritie of the churche is aboue the aucthoritie of scripture One is in fortifieng verities not writen to be necessary to saluation as plainly appeareth by manye verities in this probation another is for that the church receyued the gospels of Luke and Marke whiche Marke neuer saw Christ and did reiecte the Gospels made by his high Apostels Thomas and Bartilmew as for the gospell of Nicodeme which yet was familiar with Christe I speake not of The thyrde is bycause the church in all doubtfull causes and matters of controuersie must euer be iudge of the trew sense of scripture For she alone hath euer the true sēse of scripture So that by her authoritie onely Ireneus did conuince Valētin Tertulian Mertion Origen Celsum Ciprian Nouatum Nicen councell the Arians Hierom Iouinian and Augustine the Donatistes with many other And no meruell for so muche Christ him selfe made his Churche the Iudge ouer scripture when he sent the Apostels disciples to preache sayeng He that heareth you heareth me And also when he sayd Who so would not heare the Churche should be reputed and taken as an Ethnycke or Publican Seyng then that God thus appointed who wyll refuse to seke the trew vnderstandynge of scripture at that iudge whome Christ appointed hymselfe Surely none but selfe willie heretykes And here nowe to speake a worde or two of the Saboth and of mixtinge water wyth wine in the chalice whereof I should haue spoken before when I recited manye verities not written and firste concernynge the Saboth Albeit the matter of the precept be morall and the daye legal so that it myght be chaunged yet the church would neuer haue done that without speciall ordinaunce of God beinge made iudge in the cause And likewise it is to be sayde of mixtinge water wyth wyne in the chalice The Ghospel speaketh of wine onely tourned into Christes precious bloude who durste then mixte water therewith But the church is so assured of Goddes pleasure therein without any scripture that they dare not only put in water but also dare not leaue it oute And wherby knewe the church these thinges but by Christe and hys holy Apostles whiche taught in their time And so in these thinges and manye other moe went it furth from age to age continuinge in the churche tyll thys daye begonne by Christ in the beginninge withoute mention made in scripture written The .iiij. probation Some desire to haue it in the englyshe tongue only for knowledge and this is but curiositie some only for vain praise this is but vain glory to be sene learned Some only to taunt poore priestes and other therewith and this is but deuelishnes so that for none of these it ought to be in english Nowe where some would desyre it in english only to be edified thereby for this desyre only is to be embrased treuth is they may be sufficiently edified by sermons and holsom doctrine of the scriptures expounded vnto theym by such as haue the key of knoweledge as ofte as they shall well requyre and herewith a godly minde wyl be content knowing that the contrary is against the catholyke church So that euin the good and catholyke people which would doe good and noo hurt with the Bible in english yet may not be permitted to kepe it in the english tōge partly lest the infirme and weake thereby should be offended eyther in misiudging or in taking example yf occasion serue to get the same libertie to theyr destruction and partly that no occasion be geuen therby to obstinate heretikes to murmur that they haue it not in english them selues as wel as thother And this answer I geue vnto theym which seme of a godlye zeale to say scripture ought to be in english for the vse and commoditie of such people as with an earnest zeale and deuoute study doo hunger and thurste the simple and plaine knowlege of Gods worde not for contentious bablyng but for innocent lyuyng not to be curious searchers of the high mysteries but to be faithfull doers of Gods byddyngs not to be troublous talkers of the Bible but sincere folowers of Gods preceptes therin conteyned not to be vnreuerent reasoners in holy scripture for vain settīg out of their painted sheathe but to be hūble and louly workers of Gods glory not to be curious disputers in the Gospell for the mayntenaūce of theyr inordinate lustes and carnall libertye but to be vpryghte walkers in holye conuersation of lyfe in the rule of the gospell prescribed The fyfte probation Hauyng the scripture in englysh they presume to know all the scriptures perfitly and that to theyr condemnation contrary to s Hieroms rule which is this Si non succedat idoneus interpres potius nescire oportet quam cum periculo discere c. Yf there be not one present that is mete to expounde the scriptures it is better not to know the mysteries then with ieoperdie and peryll to searche theim c. The syxte probacion The most parte of the people be euyll but Christe wolde none such should haue the handlyng of his secrettes as appereth by that he willeth precious stones not to be caste amongest swine nor holye breade to dogges Therfore scripture ought not so to be lefte that all without anye discretion or difference may hādle it at their pleasures whiche muste nedes be if it be sette at libertie in the vulgar tongue in euerye churche The seuenth probation The moste part of the people be ignoraunt not hable to discerne betwene the letter and the mystery but none suche be mete iudges in suche high matters yet none wylbe more bolde then blynde bayarde therefore the scripture must be kepte furth of the handling of all suche which cānot be if it cōtinue in English as it doth for all men to dispute of it that wyll The eight probation Is not the scripture ful of figures and tropes Shal it then be so lefte that euery one shal be iudge therof The
expositions together Hereby plainly appereth that with the Englishe Bible alone though it were trewly translated man coulde not be brought fully into the trew meaninge of Gods word But we se and wel perceyue that thousandes haue ben brought from the trew meaning of goddes worde throughe the Englishe Byble therefore awaye with it It hathe kilde to many soules alredy GOD best knoweth whom I beseche sende a spedy redresse The .vi. Chapitre Scripture ought not to be in the vulgare tonge that al men without restraynt may rede it Fyfty probations of this assertion The first Probation I Neuer heard nor red that GOD would hys people to haue the booke amonge themselues to towse or type at their pleasure God gaue the booke to Hieremye and bad him rede to the people that whyche he had written Hier. xxxvi Esay viii GOD bad Esai take the Booke to him for the same purpose Yea and it was not without great mysterie that God bad Ezechiell fyrst eate the Booke Ezech. iii. and then rede it in thaudience of all the people Dan. xiii Agayne Moyses gaue the booke to the Leuites to kepe and rede to the people iiii Re. xvii and in kinge Iosaphattes time the Priestes and Leuites did read the booke and teche the people like as did also afterwarde Elchias the Priest Sapha the Scribe Esdras did sundry times take the booke read it to the people iiii Re. xxii ii pa. xxxliii ii Esd viii and .xiii. iii. Esd ix Bar. i. Hier. xxxvi they diligentlye hearinge him And Baruch the Prophet redde the booke to the kinge and to the people they geuing eare vnto him Luc. iiii Yea Christ our maister toke the booke of the Prophet for this cause and red and expounded to the people his doing herein was for our example Wherby we may easely lerne that all people should not haue the Scryptures in their owne handlinges at their pleasure as they haue had these dosen yeres past to their vtter spirituall destruction The seconde Probation God sente Ionas to preache to Niniue Ion. i. iii. he sente not a booke writtē to euery one of the Niniuites to reade them selues God sayde by Hieremy speakynge of the time of the Gospell that the time should come he wold write his law in thartes of his people Hier. xxxi So that the writtinge of tholde law in tables of stone signifieng the stony hartes of the Iewes is not to be reioysed at but rather to be lamēted to be ashamed of knowinge that Scrypture was only wryttē for sinne els neuer had ben written but only in the heart of mā It was three thousande yeres after the creation of the world before the olde lawe was written and yet then only writtē for wickednes and synne It was also a longe space after the ascension before the new Testament was written some parte at one tyme and some at an other and yet euery parte only writen for synne and scisme so that the simple ignoraunt people this wel considered ought not to be so desyrous of the scripture written as they ought to be desyrous to heare the trew meanyng of scripture for that onlye is the scripture and the gospell of Christe For sayth S. Hierom. Euangelium non est in scriptura sed in sensu non in superficie sed in medulla non in sermonum folijs sed in radice rationis The gospell is not in the wryting but in the sense it is not in the outwarde apperaunce but in the inward meanyng it is not in the leaues of the bokes but in the ghostly vnderstandynge Christ neuer bad goe write his gospell or holye worde but badde preache it Then yf thou hast an humble heart and canst but reade the englysh Bible thinke thou must haue it taught thee and not to take it thy selfe Saye as the Eunuche dyd to Philip Actes viii howe can I vnderstand it except I be taught Christe did preache ofte to the people Math. iiii v but he wrote not to them at all and he sent his disciples and bad them preache to the people his ghospel Mark .i. Luc. viii Math. x. and .xxviii. Mar. vi iii.xvi Luc. ix xxiiii Luc. xii and then they went and preached but he bad them not write at all That whiche ye haue hearde sayeth he in secrete places shal be preached on the toppes of the houses he said not it shal be written in youre churches as it hathe been Iewishly vsed on late here in Englande nor written in Bybles to be read of euerye one in hys mother tongue and set vp for that purpose in euerye churche Peter sayeth the holye fathers did speake Gods worde by the holye ghost ii Pet. i. he telleth nothinge of writyng it Math. xxvi Christe where he spake of the memorial of Mary Magdalene saide whersoeuer this ghospell shal be preached c. He sayde not whersoeuer this Ghospell shal be written Mark .i. Luc. iii. Iohn Baptist preached muche but where did he either write or commaund to be written Mat. xxiiii Christe ofte promised that hys Ghospell shoulde bee preached in all the worlde Mar. vi Luc. x. And therfore sent fourth bothe the apostles and the lxxij disciples and all godly preachers euer since so that none canne preache except he be sent Rom. x. But in no place we rede that he bad go write his ghospel I can not then but meruayl that men to their owne confusion are so desierous to haue the scripture in their mother tongue O howe oft speaketh Paule and S. Peter also of preachinge the ghospell Rom. x.xv. In the Epistle to the Romaynes in either Epistle to the Corinthians i. cor ix xv ii Cor. i. xi Gal. i. iiii.v Ephes ii Phillip i. Col. i. i. Thes ii i. Tim. ii iii ii Tim. iiii Act. ix xv.xx i. Pet. iii iiii Act. vix xv Luc. x. Math. vii Luc. xi Actes x. Actes xix to the Galathians to the Ephesians to the Philippians to the Colossiās to the Thessalonians to Tymothe and in Thartes And S. Peter also bothe in his first Epistle also thrise in thactes Besides this Martha is praysed in the Ghospell for hearyng Christes worde taughte and Christ in his sermō in the moūt saieth he that heareth my word and doeth it not he that readeth it or writeth it shal be like ned to the wise man buildynge vpon the rocke c. And agayne blessed be they that heare gods worde and kepe it and as it is in the Actes when Peter preached the holy ghost fell vpon al that heard him yea and they of Asia were praised for hearynge Gods word But wher I pray you haue you of writynge it for all men to read Howe be it the onelye drifte as I thynke of all suche as obstinatly sticke to haue the scripture in writing in the vulgar tongue is therby to be Iudges of the sense of scripture them selues contrarye to
the prophet I recited the text euin now that the people must requyre the law and the meaning therof at the mouth of the prist Mala. ii but then is it not for euery one to take it himselfe to controlle descaunt at his own pleasure The .xvii probation Can the vnlearned only with the english bible and with reading only the english translatiō discerne or know how Christes wordes be trewe that he came to fulfylle the lawe Math. v. and not to breake it and how many maner of wayes that is trewe and yet how he is the ende of the lawe Agayn can he perceyue therby how the old testament and the new are both one in substaunce Vetus lex occultatio nouae nona reuelatio veteris Aug. and yet diuerse in perfectiō and in imperfection what nedeth the olde styll to remayne yea or what neded the newe to be geuen seyng Christe answered to the lawyer askinge howe to come to heauen Luc. ● In the lawe what readest thou Loue thy lord God c. Moreouer can he see in his english booke how the gospel is easy and lyght for so Christ calleth it and that thold was ouer hard and importable as it is in thactes the .xv. seyng that in thold only manslaughter was forbyd here to be angry is is condemned there loue thy frende here loue thyne enemy there eye for eye here yf thou hast a boffet on th one side turne thother there commytte no adultery here yt thou beholdest a woman vnchastly thou art an adulterer there thou shalt not be forsworne here thou shalte not sweare at al there for stealyng other mens goodes thou must restore fourefold here for not geuyng thyne owne thou mayst be dampned Can ye with thenglish bible tell these and many moo as hard thynges as these be I am sure ye can not And therfore if ye might be suffered whiche God forbyde styll to wade in thenglish translation ye muste nedes styl walke from blindnes to blindnes The .xviii. probation In the Law and the Prophetes o how many hard thynges be cōteined yea what part of scripture is so lyghte that a godly learned man dare take in hand fully to discusse expound and declare by his owne witte yf he doe not see nor neuer haue sene anye doctor or expositoure theron And yet shall scripture be suffered to continew in thenglish tongue for all men to expounde at theyr pleasure The .xix. probation What thinges haue we gotten by the scriptures beyng in englysh these yeares past seruauntes stubbourne frowarde and disobediēt to theyr masters and mastres fleshly liberty contempt of all godly order losse of deuotion and godlynes prayer and fastyng set at nought and vnbrydled boldnesse to all mischefe See then whether it be high tyme to take it awaye agayne Suffer the sword of the spirit to continew no longer in the mad mans hande Hebre. iiii The .xx. probation Who is hable to tell at the fyrst sight how many hūdreth fautes be euyn in they re best transiation yf there were any good and yet shall they be suffered styll to continewe shall they styll poyson moo lyke as doo a thousande damnable englysh bokes sette furth within these .xxij. yeares Lord delyuer vs from theim al and that with all spede I take God to record yf I may speake only of one faute in the translation and touche no moo my herte dyd euer abhorre to here this word dominus whiche most comonly doth include noster to be translated the Lorde where as it ought to be trāslated our Lord the very latyn phrase so declaryng as appeareth sufficiently by that one exāple of the comike where one sayth to Pamphilus Pater est what man that hath a iudgement in the latyn tonge can denie this word Pater here in this place to include tuus so to be translated in to Englyshe thy father is not the same iudgement to be geuen of S. Iohans sayeng to Peter Iohan the .xxj. Dominus est It is oure Lorde our Maister where as they haue falsely translated it as in many other places calling him the Lord And lykewise in the salutatiō of our Lady Haile Mary full of grace dominus tecum doth not here this worde dominus include noster wouldest thou make tharchaungell lyke a deuyll to calle hym the lorde he is the lord to the deuyl but to vs he is our most mercifull Lorde and so to be called Our father which art in heauē halowed be thy name c. And S. Thomas cryed my Lorde my God Agayn seing God is Lorde of Abraham Lorde of Isaac and Lorde of Iacob would then Abraham Isaac or Iacob call hym the Lord no trulye but my Lorde or oure Lord. This I speake not now so much for the translatiō seing it swarmeth as full of faultes as leaues I wil not say lines as I doe for that I would wish that the comen speache amonge people sprōg of custom through the fond translation I thanke the Lord the Lorde be praysed the Lorde knoweth with all suche phrases might be left and that the people might be taughte to call hym our Lord I thanke our Lord our Lord be praysed our Lorde knoweth c. The xxi probation The holy martyr and chiefe byshoppe S. Clement writynge to S. Iames Thapostle wylleth the worde of God not to be read after euerye mans toye in his brayne seinge manye places of scripture sayeth he without the leadinge of the holye ghost maye be wrasted and taken after euerye mans leude mynde and fonde iudgement whiche thinge hath been put in practise of late and not as the spirite of God dyd meane Oportet ab eo intelligētiā discere scripturarū qui eā á maioribus secūdū veritatem sibi traditā seruat Haec diuus Clemens lib. x. recog Idem quoque docēt Iren. Tertull Athan. et Epiphan But sayeth he we must euer learne the true meaninge of scripture of hym whiche doeth obserue it as he hath accordinge to trueth receyued it of the elders Hereby we maye perceyue that we muste euer take the meanynge of scripture at his hande that went before in the trueth of Christes vniuersal church But how can it then be in the Englysh tonge for al mē to read take as they haue done at their pleasure thei haue made scripture no scripture by false recitynge by false wrastyng and tournyng For as Martiall● sayeth Quem recitas meus est o Philentine libellus At male cum recitas incipit esse tuus O my frende the boke that thou recitest is myne but when thou makest false recitall then thou makest it thine owne booke and none of myne O lorde in howe many places maye scriptuce by the wicked be tourned into sundrie facions as God knoweth it hath been euen after the oracle of Apollo Aio te aeacida Romanos vincere posse Is it thē to be continued in thenglish tonge The xxij probation If scripture in the vulgar tongue had been