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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A79533	A whip for the lecturers of Lewis, and for all those Presbyterians, and others of the clergy which maintain that damnable opinion of absolute reprobation, according to the sense of the within written paper. With an exact copy of two several letters sent unto the the said lecturers, wherein the author desires satisfaction concerning the said opinion, with an answer to one of the said letters, being a true copy also. / By Edward Choune ...	Choune, Edward.	1657 (1657)	Wing C3929; ESTC R171318	20,781	29

hinge and no matter for any religion if that be a truth of God yet I have been deeply censured by many of my friends for being so singular in the opposing and reviling those Ministers which maintain it Now in regard I see very few Ministers will stand in the gap to oppose them for fear of losing their Bacon or their noble Tithes and other men they do not care for troubling themselves desiring to live quietly my answer shall be Luther's own words as he is quoted in the Book of Martyrs when he alone appeared against the Papists many of his friends perswaded him to be silent for fear some temporal persecution should be inflicted on him his answer was saying If there were as many Divels in the town of Wormes in Germany as there were tiles on the houses yet he would appear in that cause This cause having much more need for another Luther to appear then ever the other had and yet there be but very few dare shew themselves in this great work therefore by Gods help I will with my very small abilities appear to the utmost of my power in this cause until such time as I am convinced by Scripture and Reason and then I shall most willingly lie down at their feet I confess some have seemingly reproved me for using passionate expressions in the forewritten letters as they say in calling the Ministers jugling Priests and saying they are more sitting to keep hoggs then to continue in the Ministery and such like words but doubtless no Christian upon due consideration can think there is any passion used in regard they are such blasphemers in making God the Author of sin for they say As God hath ordained the end of the Reprobate which is damnation so hath he ordained the means tending thereunto by which plain words let the world judge if they do not make God the Author of all sins But many of these men that I have to deal withall are meer shuttle-cocks saying one thing to day and denying it to morrow especially Priest Newton to my knowledge therefore look on the Marginal notes on Deut. 2. and v. 30. there you shall find those very blasphemous words above written of Gods appointing the means unto the end which I suppose was done by their Geneva brethren and unto this purpose if you will but look into those cursed Authors Zanchius Crowley and Knox they will tell you all those who are or shall be damned are necessarily damn'd and that by Gods predestination we are compelled to do those things for which we shall be damned Reverend Calvin himself as some call him but for my part I think if all his works were answerable unto this most abominable and blasphemous expression his title onely deserves Calvin Sir Reverence where he faith lib. 1. c. 27. § 11. That the wicked are not onely bound in fetters but are guided by Gods bridle to do all manner of their wicked actions Many such damnable expressions of such wicked Authors I have lying by me but I will forbear Some men have imagined that I was set on by some Jesuit or some other wicked men or else distracted or else I would not so violently oppose those cursed Reprobatarians doubtless it had been no sin against God or man if thousands had joyned with me in this nature for the opposing sucha dwellish heresies I suppose the very style of this writing will so cleer the business that no Scholar hed any hand in it but I profess in the presence of that God before whom I write this that never any man did dictate one line unto me what I should write either now or whatever I did write before or ever gare me any enconragement to oppose them in this nature If ever I do suffer any temporal punishment for these my own actions I will give you four unanswerable reasons which moved me unto it The first reason is Gods word which will be an unquestionable evidence for the clearing of me at the last day The second reason my reading of many eminent mens works upon that subject which concur with the Scriptures The third reason several conferences I have had with many Godly well disposed Christians which have agreed with me in this judgment The fourth and last reason is my own conscience which I make no doubt of but will prove a continual feast unto me As for my being distracted I never did know my temporal judgment in a better condition blessed be that God who is the onely continuer of it and I suppose I have not give any of my acquaintance cause to think the contrary As for my comfortable assurance of my eternal welfare I can boldly speak it if I were now at this instant to give an account for all my wicked actions I do verily believe that my gracious God is not in the least degree angry with me for any thing I have said or written against those Ministers which maintain that blasphemous opinion of absolute reprobation but I have great cause to think rather that my gracious God doth very much own these my undertakings and I do also verily believe in respect of my souls salvation I am at this present writing and have been ever since the fortunate difference betwixt the Parson and my self brake out in a more blessed condition then I was before for a long time I will draw towards a conclusion with a learned mans character of the Clergy in general his book is called The Modern Policy to be sold at the George in Fleet-street a little book about eight pence price I confess I shall rove from the subject in hand onely I will make some use of it by way of application I have not read in this book very lately yet I will not add one line more then his own words he saith it much pierceth his heart to see the Clergy in such a high degree accessary to the civil distempers how they have every where shaken the foundations both of Church and state and how it hath been observed that there hath been no floud of misery but did spring from or at least was much swelled by their holy water saith he I have searched the Evangelical records and there was nothing but milde and soft doctrines I enquired into the breathings of the Spirit and they were pacificatory I wondered from what presidents and Scripture-encouragements these men deduced their practises and at last was forced to conclude that they were only pretended chaplaines unto the Prince of peace it is hard to find in any place any tragical scene or bloudy Theatre but a Jesuite or some stone-Priest hath had a part in it He also saith the Politician must nourish some mercenary Jesuite or other Divines to cry up their aimes in their Churches that so the poyson may insinuate more generally into all for the sharpest sword in his Army cannot vie services with his subtil quill and so we may see those torches that should have been for saving light were degenerated into fire-brands those trumpets that should have sounded retreats to popular furies knew no other musick but martiall allarums I confess I have both read and discoursed with many of the same judgment but until within these two or three years I was very unwilling to entertain such vile thoughts of them but now I confess if this plain English be a truth of God which those I write against maintain it to be that is to say all the Devils in hell could not keep any of those which are in heaven from that place nor shall be any hindrance to any of those that shall be heaeafter received into that place of glory nor Christ Jesus Ministers praying and preaching nor all the Saint-like actions that are possble for the Creature to do could keep any of those which are in hell nor can keep any of those which shall hereafter go into hell from that place of torment if this be a truth then Iverily believe the character the learned man gives as aforesaid of the Clergy may be as true as the Gospel they having nothing to do for to imploy their wits on but on such devillish designs but for my part believing their opinion to be one of the Devils truths for indeed it is impossible for the Devil to be a deceiver if their opinion be a truth of God therefore I hope to have more honourable thoughts of those Clergy which discovered that hellish opnion Though I confess to my knowledge many of them ought to have a slash provided for them because they will not shew themselves in this great work for the opposing of such a devillish heresie and very many Ministers have abominated this opinion unto me in such like termes and yet all the reason they can give to excuse their silence is only as I said before for fear they should lose their Bacon O sad sad sad are these miserable times we live in but I hope yet in Gods good time we shall have a through reformation for doubtless as in the 106. Psalm were there not some Moses's that did stand in the breach to stop the fury of the Lord many may expect the same judgment which was inflicted on Dathan and Abiram for this their most damnable opinion There have many eminent men for learning and piety both formerly and lately shewed themselves in print for the opposing of this heresie and I doubt not but many more will appear in this great work not onely to reprove the Reprobatarian Ministery but also other Ministers which are of the contrary judgment and yet think themselves to be Gods labourers though they will not appear in Gods vineyard to do the work of the Lord which doubtless is to inveigh in their pulpits against those wicked Reprobatarians in the bitterest language which can be invented which may prove under God to be the onely means for the suppressing this most damnable and most blasphemous heresie Although I am my self but a Farmer and was never since I was 14 years of age capable of any better preferment yet I would most willingly ride 500 miles and spend or give 100 l. upon some charitable use that this Nation were well satisfied concerning this heretical opinion which is so stifly maintained by Mr Newton the Presbyterian Priest of my parish and other men of that stamp and so farewell FINIS

to whose grace you are commended by your well wishing friends The Lecturers of Lewis and Brighthelmston I received this the 12 of March 1655. they sending it without dating A Copy of the Answer unto this Letter before written Sirs I Received a thing like a Letter with no mans hand unto it wherein you judge my Paper sent unto you concerning absolute reprobation needless to be answered in regard some learned Bishops and Doctors have answered my Authors fully as you say wishing me to read their works with a single eye and then if any scruple arise if I come unto you with the spirit of meekness you would by conference cleer the truth for what I have read and heard of Bishop Davenant Doctor Twisse and Doctor Prideaux it hath more confirmed and strengthened me in my opinion then otherwise it is above a year since that I did first speak and write unto many of you upon several Christian considerations to give me some satisfaction and now at the last you have sent me a piece of Paper which is little better worth then to wipe ones breech for any satisfaction I can see in it Now if this be all the advice you can give me let me desire you all that writ unto me for to accept of the same advice from me In the first place with an honest and consciencious heart read the word of God Austin and Tertullian being quoted unto me I will also put you in mind of their sayings Austin saith you must not contradict plain places of Scripture because your shallow brains cannot comprehend the obscure Tertullian saith A few testimonies must receive an exposition answerable unto the current of the Scriptures not contrary And as Mr. Pierce saith Is there no other way to understand those Texts in Rom. 9. then to make those Texts which sound severely to clash with those that sound compassionately let us not do so having a thousand compassionate plain places of Scripture unto one harsh and obscure read also Bishop Montague and he will tell you that you swerve from the Church of England in maintaining your erroneous point of absolute reprobation one of my Authors quoted Bishop Overal in his interpretation of the 39. Articles who saith the maintenance of absolute reprobation is precisely against the judgement of the Church of England pray read also Bishop Harsnets Sermon on Ezek 33. v. 11. which will tell you your blasphemous opinion is grown high monstrous that it is like unto Goliah that men tremble and shake at it and no man reacheth his hand to Davids sling to cast it down but in the name of the Lord of hosts we will encounter it for it hath not reviled the host of the living God but the God of hosts read also Doctor Jacksons Treatise on Gods attributes Doctor Hammonds Fundamentals who will tell you that your opinion is against the judgement of the Church of England read Doctor Potters Apology Mr. Goodwin his agreement and distance of the brethren read also Haggars Stoicks and Moalamb on Rom. 9. and many other books but beyond all compare let me commend unto you Mr. Hoord and Mr. Piercy's books for I believe they have so sufficiently maintained that doctrine against your blasphemous opinion as they call it of absolute reprobation both by Scripture by Antiquity and by Reason that the wit of man is not able to give any considerable answer by Scripture by Antiquity by Reason to gain-say it doubtless these men will give you satisfaction if any scruple do arise My desire is that any two of you Lecturers will give me a meeting five ten or twenty miles from home and I will meet you and by Gods help will give you better satisfaction for the maintenance of my opinion then ever I received from any of you against it provided you will come with an humble spirit keeping close unto the Scriptures and cast away all carnall inventions but to meet a multitude I will not be baited at or for fear I may be jugled out of my wits by such a company you would have me also utter and write against the Protestants beyond the Seas and the Framers of the Articles of the Church of England And in their words for the greatest part of the Protestants beyond the Sea holds against your wretched opinion as I have been well satisfied and will sooner close with the Papists in respect of their religion then with your selves as for the Church of England the framers of the Articles have left them in such a dubious way that some Bishops and Doctors and other inferiour Ministers do interpret the Articles absolutely against that horrid point of absolute reprobation and some Bishops Doctors and other inferiour Ministers do interpret the same articles making absolute reprobation a truth of God just as they do the Scripture framing it unto any fashion or shape Now if this be a truth as you maintain that God by his eternal and unalterable decree hath elected the smallest part of mankind infallibly unto glory and reprobated the greatest part of man-kind unto damnation I would fain hear any rational man give a reason why it should be an errour in me for saying I would not give three pence a dozen for all the Bishops Doctors and other inferiour Ministers in Christendome unless I had a commission to sell them to the great Turk and also for my wondering that our forefathers should so unadvisedly suffer these drones to suck so much of the good of the land as allowing in all places the Tenth of the Revenues and in many places to my knowledg at this day they enjoy the sixth part of the Revenues of the land and beyond sea amongst the Papists as I have read all sorts of their dronish Clergy enjoy almost half of the revenues of their lands now if this be a truth of God what is the Priests work both here and beyond sea but onely to enslave mens consciences whilest they live here on earth and I would fain see any judicious man who renounceth his believing because his Priest believes it to give a satisfactory answer why so many bagpipe players as there are Priests which may be competently maintained with an hundredth part of the Priests charge may not do God and man as good service in respect of mens salvation to keep one merry day in a week let it be Sunday or any other day either in this Nation or in any other part of the world provided that that judicious man shall grant that which all you maintain that is that all the Devils in Hell cannot keep one of the Elect from glory neither Christ Jesus nor all the Saint-like actions in the world that is possible for the creature to do can keep one of the reprobates from damnation this being granted if I am in an errour I have a longing desire to be convinced by Scripture and reason I have already written to you under my hand which opinion I suppose you maintain because I