he thinks may be deduc'd from some Practice of theirs as may be seen p. 22. now mention'd But now comes the Faithful-representing Catechism and without mincing it at all he assures all such as will be catechis'd that the Papists Pray to Images and this positively absolutely without explaining any sense in which those words are to be taken not a Word for the preventing any Mistake in his Readers if they 'l think the Papists so sottish as to Pray to Stocks and Stones and expect relief from those Wooden Mediators they may do it for all his true representing Such Christian Calumny he 'l help to transfuse into the Heads of the Ignorant but not a Syllable to obviate the working of such Poyson 'T is true he tells his Reader that the Honour given by Papists to Images is referr'd to the Persons Represented by them but no mention of what is meant by Praying to Images that he leaves to the discretion of every one that can afford to lay out six-pence upon a Catechism against Popery And now at last in his Vindication of this passage he tells ye he did not intend to insinuate by those Words as if the Papists did Pray to Images absolutely so as to expect to be heard by the Images but so as to expect to be heard by Christ for praying to him by his Image in the sense 't was taken above in the Answer to the Papists Misrepresented c. And here he confidently affirms that from the two Answers in his Catechism viz. to Quest 44. and 45. laid together or either of them intire it manifestly appears what he intended by that charge But I must ask him To whom do's this manifestly appear Is he assur'd that all the zealous Controvertists of Spittle-fields and Wapping will dive into this subtilty and understand his meaning tho there be not one word in either of the two Answers to explicate it Do's he think those Favourers of Popery will lay things together to take off from the blackness of the Charge which is absolute and positive in the Indictment He that leaves the Papists their Credit and their Doctrine to the favour and mercy of such a Jury must certainly be very willing to hear Oats's Tune of eighty one plaid over again No when Doctors and Divines charge bluntly and downright 't is not to be expected from the Crowd to make a favourable Interpretation But at last the Catechist in his Postscript will prove that the Papists do in some manner Pray to Images His Argument is thus Prayer is to the Object to which the Veneration is to be given but the Veneration is to be given to the Image as representing and so is the Prayer A piece of Sophistry by which he may prove for the next Edition of his Catechism that the Papists Pray to the Bible as well as to Images they having a Veneration for both the one and the other And if he can but once make out that People Pray to every thing to which they give a Veneration will not this serve to prove that every one who going into Westminster Abby takes off his Hat do's by paying that Veneration in some manner â—ray to the Walls Will it not be the same thing to Petition the Chair of State as to make a Reverence to it and to â—ray to every Dish of Meat that goes to the Kings Table as to bow to it But suppose he could in any sense have prov'd Praying to Images against the Papists by some better Argument than this which is not fit to lie under a University-threshold yet would this be true Representing to insert this Consequence of his into the Character of a Papist It has been decided long ago by his own Party that he that puts the Interpretations and Consequences of Mens Doctrines and Practices into their Character is a Proper Misrepresenter Do's not the Catechist then justly fall under this Infamy who in giving an account of the Papists Doctrine and Practices instead of such a Doctrine or Practice inserts a Consequence of his own into their Character And yet this Catechism in the Title is the truly representing Catechism Again he says he has compos'd this Catechism out of the Papists own Writings out of their own approv'd Authors and Councils and by this his Reader is to understand that every Doctrine and Practice he there imputes to the Papists is what their own Authors and Councils expresly own and profess Now to make good this pretext and justifie himself he is oblig'd to point out to some of the Papists approv'd Authors and Councils which do acknowledge and declare this Point of Praying to Images to be the receiv'd Doctrine and Practice of their Church if not absolutly at least in that sense in which he has explicated himself in his Vindication For if he do's not do this he has most unchristianly wrong'd the Papists in imputing to them a Doctrine and Practice pretendedly according to their most receiv'd Authors but no where found in such Authors or Councils being only a misinterpretation of his own pass'd upon the World for a Popish Doctrine and this will most unluckily draw him into the number of Misrepresenters Lastly in his Answer 10 Q. 44 having declared to his Reader that the Papists kiss the Images of Christ fall down before them offer Incense and Pray to them c. he concludes thus And whosoever doth think otherwise is accâ—rsed For this citing the Council of Trent Sess 25. Catech. Rom. By which he insinuates into his Reader that not only kissing Images of Christ c. but likewise Praying to them is prescrib'd by the Council of Trent and the Catechism ad Parochos and that whosoever shall think otherwise viz. that Images ought not to be kiss'd nor pray'd to is cast out of the Communion of that Church and declar'd Accursed This is what every Reader must understand from that passage And indeed who can apprehend it otherwise especially finding it thus positively asserted in a Book which in the very first leaf is recommended as a Catechism Faithfully drawn out of the allow'd Writings of the Church of Rome And when the Author in the Preface gives this assurance that the Quotations are true he having again and again examin'd them And yet whosoever shall be so curious as to examine the said Council of Trent and Roman Catechism will not find in the places cited nor even throughout the Books so much as one syllable concerning Praying to Images much less any Curse pronounc'd against those who shall think otherwise The Council indeed Anathematizes such who teach contrary to what has been shewn in the beginning of this Paper to be the sense of the Fathâ—rs there assembled touching the Veneration due to the Images of Christ but no mention there of Praying to Images in any sense whatsoever And is it not strange now that when such things as these are charg'd upon the Papists and publish'd to the world for their
the Scripture in their Memory more Texts at their tongue's command more of the Books in their hands but 't is where more care is taken for imprinting the true Sence of these Words in the Vnderstanding of the People and where is us'd the most prudential method for the leading them into the truth of all the Mysteries contain'd in that sacred Volume And in this Point the Papist will yield to none for it is an unquestionable truth that when a Book contains high Mysteries of Religion Mysteries superiour to all Sence and Reason and those not deliver'd in expressions suited to every capacity but obnoxious to various interpretations such as may be wrested by the unlearned and unstable to their own Destruction in this case 't is an unquestionable truth I say that that People is in all probability likely to have more of the true Sence of this Book and to be better informed of the truth of the Mysteries it contains who are instructed in it by the Learned of that Communion and taught it by their Pastors Prelates and those whom God hath placed over them to govern and feed the Flock than any other People who have the Book put into their own hands to read it and search it and satisfie themselves For why Are not the Pastors more capable of teaching the People than the People are to teach themselves Or is it commendable in Scripture only and Religion for every one to be his own Master which in any other matter whosoever doe's it shall be esteem'd a Fool We know Moses Deut. 31. 9. gave the Book of the Law to the Levites to keep and read it every seven years to the People and in King Jehoshaphats reign 2 Chron. 17. 9. the Priests and Levits did read it and teach the People so did Jeremy Jer. 36. by Gods command so Isaiah so Ezekiel so the Levits Nehemiah 8. 8. Read in the Book in the Law of God distinctly and gave the Sence and caus'd them the People to understand the Reading And did not our Blessed Saviour Luc. 4. 17. take the Book of the Prophet and read it and expound it to the People And was not this the Office of the Apostles and Deacons to interpret the Scriptures and instruct their Followers what they were to believe and doe For this intention was Ananias sent to Saul Peter to Cornelius and Philip to the Eunuch who professedly own'd he could not understand the Prophet in so necessary a Point as that of the Messias without an Interpreter How can I understand said he except some man should guide me Act. 8. 31. Since therefore the Papists in delivering the Scripture come nearest to this Method commanded by God in the Old Law prescrib'd and practis'd by Christ and his Apostles in the New what People can be better instructed in the true sence of it and understand more of the Mysteries of the Christian Faith than they With what Reason can it be urg'd against the Vulgar of his Communion that the Scriptures are hid from them that they are bred up in blindness and ignorance Do not the Pastors expound the Scriptures to them do not they instruct them in every Point of their Religion and teach them the whole Duty of a Christian Is it not this they do in their Pulpits in their Catechisms in the Confessionaries in so many hundred spiritual Books plainly laying before them their whole obligation both as to Faith and Good manners And is this to conceal from them the Scripture Is the Word of God hid from them because they have their Pastors to instruct them in it Or are they any ways injur'd because they have learneder men than themselves to teach them Is the Multitude a better Judge of Scripture and more able to discover the truth of it than those whom God has plac'd over them Has God so deserted the Pastors and Prelates of his Church and is the Flock of late become so Wise The Faith of Christ was first planted by Christ's Preaching it to the Multitude by the same way 't was propagated by the Apostles and so it is to be deliver'd down to the end of the World Faith comes by hearing By this means many Barbarous Nations saies St. Irenaeus l. 3. adv har c. 3. believe in Christ have the Doctrine of Salvation written in their Hearts by the Holy Ghost without the help of Books and religiously observe the Traditions believing in one God c. Now 't is certain the Truth of this Christian Faith with all its Mysteries is unquestionably preserv'd in Christs Catholic Church and the People are to receive it and not to find out their Faith and Religion every one for themselves If they are afraid of being deceiv'd when they rely on their Pastors for it they run ten times the hazard when they trust to themselves The Papist therefore is taught that since Christ has a Church upon earth in which is conserv'd the truth of the Gospel 't is safer and more prudential for the People to be instructed in this Truth from the Pastors of this Church and by this means come to the Knowledg of the Word of God that is of its true sence and meaning than by committing the Book it self into the hands of the Multitude and leting every one understand it for themselves He knows 't is a very popular thing and acceptable to the prying Multitude to have a Book at command which directs the Way to Salvation but since 't is not the Book is to save him but the Truth and Doctrine which it teaches he believes 't is better learning this from those who are Wiser and are commissionated from Heaven to teach than to venture at it himself without any Authority The unhappy Divisions among Christians sufficiently inform him that to such Readers as St. Peter calls unreary and ignorant however wise they may think themselves Aâ—ianism may be as obvious in this Book as Christs Divinity and that when such an one undertakes the interpreting of it 't is an hazard whether at the end he comes out Quaker Anabaptist Presbyterian Independent Mugletonian Socinian or Atheist 'T is a Venture whether the Trinity shall have place in his Creed or no whether he 'll allow of Baptism or any Sacrament and whether Cruelty cutting of Throats Oppression Tyranny Dethroning of Kings and Murder of Princes shall not with him become a necessary Duty and a true serving of the Lord. For all these and more damnable Doctrines has he seen preach'd up and practic'd by those who have had the Bible in their Banners who have been esteem'd Searchers of the Word of God and presumptuously made their Comments upon this Sacred Text. And is it not this abuse that has occasion'd so many Schisms and almost broken the Mystical Body of Christ into pieces That whereas all his Followers should be of one mind now no body knows what Religion his Neighbour is of but every Wall now parts Religions more than Seas did heretofore And
Authority of the Church as being to decide Controversies of Faith Art. 20. and this is not to ordain or enforce any thing to be believ'd that is against the Scripture But whether that which it decides be against or according to Scripture this every man is to decide again by his own private Reason They maintain the Authority of General Councils But because these may err Art. 21. their Decrees have neither Strength nor Authority unless it may be declar'd that they be taken out of Holy Scripture But whether de facto they be taken out of Scripture or no this every Private Man must judge for himself And this Dr. Burnet asserts positively in his Exam. of Meth. p. 82. The Principle of Protestants with relation to the majority even in a General Council is That when any Doctrines are establish'd or condemn'd upon the Authorities of the Scriptures those who differ from them and do think that the Council misunderstood the Scriptures are bound to suspect themselves a little and to review the matter with greater application Yet if they are requir'd to profess that they believe opinions which they think false if they were never so inconsiderable no man ought to go against his Conscience And if any Synod of Protestants has decreed any thing contrary to this in so far they have departed from the Protestant Principles But the whole matter is more fully express'd by the Author of the Discourse before mentioned Concerning a Judge of Controversy Who p. 11. at the bottom clears it thus If you ask whose Judgment ought to take place the Judgment of the Church or of every private Christian I answer says he and mark it The Judgment of the Church of necessity must take place as to external Government to determine what shall be profess'd and practis'd in her Communion and no private Christian has any thing to do in these matters But when the Question is What is Right or Wrong True or False in what we may obey and in what not Here every Private Christian who will not believe without understanding nor follow his Guides blindfold must judge for himself and 't is as much as his Soul is worth to judge right Don't you see here there 's no Authority so Great and Safe amongst them but what is to be subject to the Censure of every Private Christian And tho' there be the Name of such a thing as a Church yet let that Command prescribe and ordain what it will to be receiv'd as the Truth and Faith of Christ 't is not That is to be obey'd or believ'd but being esteem'd as a piece of Formality not to be relied on every Man when he thinks fit must set himself up above Church and Authority and ee'n judge for himself Is not here every Controversy left to the decision of the Private Spirit And under the Notion of a Church a gate open'd to all the Fanaticisms and Quakerisms in the World By the Creed all Christians are bound to Believe the Holy Catholic Church And St. Paul Heb. 13. v. 7. commands all to Obey and Submit to those that are over them and this not only as to External Government but likewise as to Truth and Belief and therefore says he v. 7. Whose Faith follow But here you see tho' your Divines maintain the Authority of a Church yet there 's no Obligation on any Members of submitting to it as to any Point of Faith They must acknowledge it indeed as to the Governing or Politic part But as to the Christian or Believing part here every Christian as to what he is to obey and what not is to judge for himself And pray now what do's all this end in but the Private Spirit Can it desire any fairer Plea than this Certainly this their Church were it the Catholic Church the Ground and Pillar of Truth 't would not thus be commendably left to be over-rul'd by every Private Man's Reason There would not be this liberty for every one to run astray from it by preferring their own Judgment before the Decision and Judgment of the Church 'T was said heretofore and we know by whom Let him that do's not hear the Church he as a Heathen and a Publican But now it seems That Man alone is as Blind as a Heathen or Publican who do's not rather hear himself than the Church I wonder how long this has been so Misrepresent I le warrant you now you have got in your Head the Question Where was the Protestant Church before Luther But don't reproach this Church and perswade the World she is as yet but in her Infancy If you have seen a Book entit'led The Antiquity of the Protestant Religion You 'l see it there prov'd That the Protestant Religion was Anciently and Generally profest in the Christian World before the Reformation p. 1. Represent You have brought in this Question now by Head and Shoulders But since 't is staâ—ted satisfie me so far as to let me know where this Church was before the Pretended Reformation In what Country or Nation was it Visible Whether in the Eastern or Western World We have a fair Historical account of it from Luther's time to our days But I would willingly know where it was in all those Fifteen Hundred years from Christ's Ascension to the coming of the Prophet Luther as he is styl'd by Slydan Misrepresent Why this Author of the Antiquity of the Protestant Religion asserts it positively and proves That the Protestant Religion was Anciently and Generally profest in the Christian World before the Reformation And sure you that pretend to History and Religion cannot be ignorant Where that Religion was which was Anciently and Generally profest amongst Christians throughout the World. Represent Certainly then This Man must have had some extraordinary Revelation or made some New Discovery For the former Protestants who liv'd nearer Luthâ—r's time knew nothing of this Religion being Generally profess'd â—oannes Regius lib. Apol p. 176 Bishop Jewel Apol. p. 4. c. 4. d. 2. and Mr. Parkins Eâ—poâ— Cre p. 400. confeâ—s that before the days of Luther and Zuingliâ— the Church viz. Protestant was Invisible unknown unheard of that for the space of many hundred years an Vniversal Apostacy overspread the Whole face of the Earth and this Church was not then visible to the World. So that by what I see Authors don't agree in this matter And then besides this in a late Famillar Discourse betwixt a Minister and his Parishioner The Question being propos'd p. 14 Where was your Religion as it is now reform'd when Luther began his Reformation As to this particular the Minister answers It may be 't was in the Greek in the Abassine and Aegyptian Churches amongst the Armenian Christians It may be 't was in a Corner under a Cloud covered with Rubbish What if we say 't was no where Misrepresent Well and what then Represent Nothing but that I see 't is very hard to be found some find it Generally profess'd
set forth with the Memories of such Eminent Persons who by a singular Favour of Heaven have been made chosen Vessels for the Propagation of the Religion there profess'd or have sealed the Truth of the Doctrine there delivered with the Effusion of their dearest Bloud This God himself did in a manner direct and approve when filling Bezaleel and Aholiâ—b Exod. 35. 31. with the Spirit of God in Wisdom in Vnderstanding and in Knowledge He Inspir'd them to make Two Cherubims of Gold Exod. 37. 7. on the side of the Mercy Seat openly declaring by this Fact the best Ornaments of his Seat and House here on Earth to be the Images Pictures and Representations of those Divine Spirits who are continually finging Praises to him before his Throne in Heaven This he was pleas'd to suggest to the Jews tho so prone to Idolatry and why should Christians be so Squeamish as not to follow when the Finger of God himself is giving Direction not in any Ceremony particularly relating to that People but in the Ornament of that Place which by his own Order was consecrated to his Presence and Service But 't is not all Christians even of Those Separated from the Communion of his Church that wholy disallow of this Practice there are several degrees amongst them as to this particular The Lutheran Protestants have their Altars and Church Walls set out with the Images and Pictures of the Apostles of the Virgin Mary of Christ upon the Cross c. Other Protestants who think the best temper of Religion to be in the Compounding Luther and Calvin together dare not go so far and therefore instead of Christ and his Apostles expose only two Saints of the old Law Moses and Aaron in their holy Places admitting generally too the Judaical Ornament of the Ark some Cberubims over their Church doors and Windows but nothing of a Cbristian Representation besides a Modern Sainted Queen This is in such Churches where the Clamours of the Croud overrule where nothing more of Cbrist must appear for fear of offending tender Consciences with the looks and smell of Popery whilst yet in other Places as in some Cathedrals and Vniversities where the People don't awe the Clergy where the Charge of Popery is neglected and the Walls and Windows not left as naked as senceless Fears would have them Cbrist and his Apostles stand with as much Veneration as Moses and Aaron elswhere and a Primitive Martyr is as becoming an Ornament as Queen Elizabeth And this seems so reasonable to some true Sons of this Church that they think nothing more suitable to their Retirement where they design to converse with Heaven than a Crucifix thâ— this Practice some think fit to wave for fear of raising Jealousies in their Family and becoming the talk of the Neighbourhood And this which he sees thus approv'd by many and practis'd by some Protestants he owns and declares for the allow'd and establish'd Practice of his Church So that to be a Papist in this particular is nothing more than to think the Pictures of Christ of his Apostles and Saints to be as ornamental in a Cbristian House as others of Relations Benefactors or Emperours c. And not to joyn hands with him who broke in pieces the Image of Christ upon the Cross while he left those of the Two Thieves stand untoucht 'T is to look upon the Cross or Crucifix as proper in a Church to shew that that Place and Congregation belongs to Christ as the Lion and the Vnicorn or Kings Arms to Intimate that they own the King as Supreme Governour 'T is to esteem the Apostles and Martyrs as fit to have place there for preaching the Gospel there deliver'd and ratifying it with their Bloud as Moses and Aaron for publishing the Commandments or as Queen Elizabeth for establishing the Religion by her Statutes As he is a Papist therefore he cannot have a good Opinion of those who love all sorts of Pictures whether of Relations Landskips Monsters Dogs or Devils but can brook nothing of Christ or his Mother who with Satisfaction enough can Admit of Mahomet Luther Calvin a suffering Russel or Sidney The Saviour of the Nation any Prophane or Immodest Picture whatsoever but presently turn Stomach at the sight of the Worlds Redeemer upon the Cross at any Passage of Christs Passion or sacred Mystery of our Religion represented in Colours No better Christians can he esteem those who cannot endure to be without their Signet to shew their Family who cannot see their Shops or Sign-Posts without the Arms of the Company they are Free of who must have their Scutcheon over their Hall doors to publish the Corporation they belong to and yet can allow of nothing to shew they are Christians who can see Crosses on their Houses and Walls both private and public on their Signs Barges their Ships and Colours as often as you will to speak them belonging to Citizens but a Cross to declare themselves Christians they repute as intollerable These he cannot much esteem for their Christianity as to this Point since he sees they are ashamed of nothing but what is to shew them to be Christians Secondly as to what concerns the Respect and Veneration He shews to Sacred Images of Christ his Mother or Apostles c. he does nothing but what Nature and Reason oblige him too and to explicate what this is he needs no more than declare that as a Loyal Wife who has a tender Love and sincere Respect for her Husband cannot chuse from the pressing Impulse of innocent Nature but have a Love and Respect for his Picture and expresses that Love by kissing it and hanging it at her Breast in the same manner He having a hearty Love and true Honour in his Soul for his Blessed Redeemer Apostles and Martyrs of Christ cannot hinder the irresistable force of Nature from having a Respect and Honour for their Pictures and this same Respect he expresses by kissing them placing them in his Oratory the Church c. Again as Christians Honour and Respect the Bible above all other Books and tho it be made of nothing but Paper Ink Leather Pastboard like all other Volumes yet because the Stroks of that Ink are so order'd and joyn'd in that Paper that they Signifie and Represent to him the Doctrine and Passion of Christ c. for this Reason they cannot chuse but Love and Respect and Honour this Book and if in reading and perusing it any more devout than the rest express these Sentiments of their Souls by kissing it never taking it into their Hands but with an awful Reverence with their Heads uncovered and on their bended knees they do nothing but to the Honour and Glory of God and what may without Superstition or Suspicion of giving Idolatrous Worship to the Paper or Ink of that Book be paid to that Sacred Volume and what has been the Practice of many holy Christians and Saints Upon the same Account and for the
Ammonites pray to Ashtoroth or Milcom He does not deny but in one of the Hymns us'd in his Church are found these words Hail O Cross our only Hope In this time of the Passion encrease Righteousness in the Just and blot out the Sins of the Guilty And these same words as likewise the whole Hymn are found in St. Ambrose's Works tho compos'd by that Learned Bishop Vincentius Fortunatus who liv'd in the fifth Age to be sung on Passion Sunday upon which day it is still us'd by his Church as part of that days Solemnity And if for these words of this Prelate whose Name is so often celebrated by Pious and Learned Men and his whole Church must be blackned with the Infamy of Idolatry and praying directly to the Cross then stand clear Paul have a care Chrysostome beware O Creed and you common-prayer-Common-prayer-Book look to your felf for if there be but any that will weigh you in this Scale if you have but a Grave Catechist that according to this Rule will Faithfully represent you you 'll be infallibly set out for nothing better then Professors of Folly and Nonsence Bundles of Absurdities and Prophaneness sitter for the diversion of Drolling Atheists than the Direction of any Christian Congregation 'T is but exposing some sentences and expressions found in them in the rigid and literal sence of the words to the Multitude and they 'll presently lose all their Authority of being Divine and become as Ridiculous as Popery which by these true-representing Arts has been made so infamous by its Adversaries As now if after the Method of this Faithful Catechism the Question should be thus ask'd concerning St. Paul Quest What regard had St. Paul for the material Cross A. He reverenc'd it above all things in Heaven and Earth expresly owning it for the only Subject of his Glory God forbid says he Gal. 6. 14. that I should glory save in the Cross of our Lord Jefus Christ Again He look'd upon the Wood of the Cross as that which had purchas'd Mans Reconciliation to God as he directly confesses Ephes 2. 16. where he says Man was Reconcil'd unto God in one body by the Cross Would not the urging these expressions of St. Paul in the rigid sence of the Words as they signifie the material Wood of the Cross make him change his Colour in the Eyes of the Multitude and render him more like an Infidel than an Apostle of Jesus Christ for thus placing his Glory and Mans Reconciliation in a piece of Wood And if these same measures are applied to St. Chrysostom and other Fathers who flourish'd in the time of the Church's Purity will not they all appear disfigur'd with the horror of Superstition and Idolatry and carry the most infamous Marks of Popery in the very face of them St. Chrisostom says expresly that the Cross has broken the Gates of Hell has open'd the Passage into Heaven has made Paradise again accessible and confounded the power of Satan and a little before that every thing that contributes to our Salvation receives its perfection from the Cross St. Ephrem in almost the same words thus celebrates the Cross It has triumph'd says he over death 't is the Hope of true Believers the Light of the World the Key of Paradice the Overthrow of Heresies the Help of Religious Men the Establishment of Faith a great and secure Protection and the perpetual Glory of good Christians for ever Now let but these words of these Eminent and Primitive Christians be thrown amongst the Crowds with an innuendo as if spoken meerly of the material Cross and that they attributed so many excellencies to a piece of Wood what scandals would immediately follow How many contempts and scornful reproches would these Great Fathers receive from the presuming Multitude And how many compassionate Moans would the more Pitying Sex sigh out upon the darkness of that Age This would certainly have follow'd had it been the Fate of these Primitive Christians to have faln into True-representing Protestant hands or were there any faithful Catechism to have made Questions and Answers upon their Faith and Practice But certainly 't is not only the part of a Faithful Catechism that pretends to give a true account of mens Belief and Practice to lay down some words some expressions taken out of their Hymns their Epistles their Books and then leave them to the discretion of every undiscerning or prejudic'd Reader to interpret as they please and more especially it ought not to have pointed out to a false and mistaken sence which however literal is yet contrary to the meaning of those whose Doctrine it pretends to deliver No this is not doing faithfully 't is not true-representing If it would have made good its Title in the Frontispiece it should besides relating the bare words have given a faithful account of the sence in which Catholicks understand those words And therefore as to do right to St. Paul St. Chrysostom St. Ephrem c. besides giving a bare Narrative of their expressions it ought to be explicated to the people that in all those high Encomiums of infinit and divine Perfections and Effects attributed to the Cross they do not understand the meer Material Cross or piece of Wood but the Belief in the Mystery of the Cross the Passion of the Son of God or Christ Crucified which are all signified and represented by the Cross So to represent truly the Practice of Catholicks 't is not sufficient to set down the bare words of the Hymn but likewise their meaning ought to have been propos'd that with St. Paul St. Chrysostom St. Ephrem c. they do not understand barely the Material Cross but Christ crucified and that in that Holy time of the Passion in which that Hymn is sung their whole Devotion and Prayers are directed to Him who being born for us Men and our Salvation made peace through the Blood of his Cross So that the meaning of Catholicks in saying that Hymn is Hail O Christ our only Hope In this time of the Passion increase Righteousness in the Just c. This had been true-representing indeed but to pretend to faithful representing and then to set down only Words without their due Sence and Meaning is to represent by halves it has more of deceiving in it then representing having little of truth in it besides in Brags and Pretences This certainly is so insincere a Method that if allow'd there needs no more to blast the Credit and Reputation even os Truth it self and 't is very observable that there is scarce an Argument taken up by Protestants or any Means us'd by them for the defeating of Popery or making it Ridiculous to the Multitude but the same if follow'd on will infallibly ruin all Religion and turn Christianity out of the World Protestancy it self is not proof against its own weapons but that which brought it into the World will be certainly its overthrow with as many as have but
sence enough to put it to the Trial. There may be occasion hereafter of evidencing this in many Particulars at present 't will be sufficient to let the impartial Reader see how far this one Argument taken up by the Faithful Catechist to prove the Papists so stupid as to pray directly to a piece of Wood will contribute to the ruin of the Christian Faith and even of Protestancy it self if an Atheist or Heathen should take it out of his hands and use it to the best advantage of his Cause The Argument is this That it must be suppos'd sufficiently prov'd against Catholicks that they pray directly to the Material Cross because there are some words in a Hymn of their Church which if taken in their literal and rigid sence import a direct praying to it Now let but some honest Heathen turn a True-representing Catechism-maker and following exactly this Copy set before him see whether in faithfully describing the Doctrines and Practices of Protestants according to this Rule he cannot do as much for them that is set them out as Absurd and Ridiculous as they have done for the Church of Rome And to follow the method exactly he must go by Questions and Answers We must suppose therefore that the Title of his Book is thus A Catechism truly representing the Doctrines and Practices of Protestants faithfully drawn out of their own Bible and approv'd Liturgy And that thus He begins Q. What God do the Protestants worship and serve A. They worship a God which they believe to have Hands as they expresly own in their Creed where they daily make this profession He ascended into Heaven and sits at the Right hand of the Father And in Ps 138. 7. they thus address themselves to their God Thou shalt streâ—ch fourth thine Hand against the wrath of mine enemies and thy Right Haâ—d shall save me 2. They believe him to have Ears as Psal 17. 6. where they cry out to him O God incline thine Ear unto me and hear my speech And ib. vers 1. O Lord attend unto my Cry give ear unto my Prayer 3. They believe him to have Eyes Nostrils and Mouth as Psal 17. 2. where praying to God they say Let thine Eyes behold the things that are equal And Psal 18. 8. they thus describe him There went up a Smoke out of his Nostri's and Nostri's out of his Mouth Q. Where do they believe the Seat of their God to be A. In Heaven which they believe to be a place upon some Hill as they proâ—ess Psal 3. 4. I cried unto the Lord with my voice and he heard me out of his holy Hill. And Psal 24. 3. Who shall ascend into the Hill of the Lord And again Psal 43. 3. Let them bring me unto thy Holy Hill. Q. What Creatures shall be sav'd or dwell with God for ever upon this Hill A. All Creatures shall be sav'd both Man and Beasts as they expresly believe Ps 36. 7. Thou Lord shalt save both Man and Beast as the Psalms have it in the Common-prayer And Revel c. 4. 6. Round about the throne of God were four Beasts And chap. 5. 6. In the midst of the throne and of the four Beasts and in the midst of the Elders stood a Lamb. And vers 8 the four Beasts and four and twenty Elders fell down before the Lamb. Q. Whom do Protestants address themselves to in the Solemn and Publick Service of their Church A. They address themselves directly to the Saints as Psal 30. 4. Sing unto the Lord O ye Saints of his and give thanks 2. To the Angels Psal 148. 2. Praise ye him all his Angels 3. To the Sun and Moon Beasts Mountains c. Psal 148. 3. Praise ye him Sun and Moon vers 9. Mountains and all Hills vers 10. Beasts and all Cattel Q In what manner do Protestants perform their Publick Devotion and Service to God A. In Lying Cursing and scandalously defaming one another Q. How in lying A. By having such things in their publick Service to be said by all which scarce any one of them can say with truth as Psal 119. 62. At midnight I will rise to give thanks unto thee Psal 6. 6. I am weary with my groaning all the night make I my bed to swim I water my Couch with my tears Psal 18. 21. I have kept the ways of the Lord and have not wickedly departed from my God. Psal 34. 1. I will bless the Lord at all times his Praise shall continually be in my mouth Psal 35. 13. But as for me when they were sick my clothing was sack-cloth I humblid my self with fasting Psal 109. 24. My knees are weak with fasting Psal 101. 3. I will set no wicked thing before mine eyes Vers 4. A froward heart shall depart from me I will not know a wicked person Vers 5. Whoso privily slandereth his neighbour him will I cut off Vers 7. He that worketh deceit shall not dwell within my house he that telleth lies shall not tarry in my sight Psal 113. 4. The mountains skipped like rams and the little hills like lambs These and many more such like Asseverations Promises and Protestations they make in their Devotions and yet how few of them if any without defying their own Consciences and Truth Q. How by Cursing A. In direful Imprecations and fearful wishes imploring the worst of evils against their Neighbour as Psal 109. 6. where they thus pray to God Set thou a wicked man over him and let Satan stand at his right hand when he shall be judg'd let him be condemn'd and let his prayer become sin Let his days be few and let another take his office Let his children he fatherless and his wife a widow Let his children be continually vagabonds and beg Let them seek their bread also out of their desolate places Let the Extortioner catch all that he hath and let the Strangers spoil his labour Let there be none to extend mercy unto him neither let there be any to favour his fatherless children c. can there be more terrible Wishes more direful Imprecations than these Q. How by defaming one another A. By charging one another with the most infamous of Crimes in the heat of their Devotions as in the recital of Ps 50. where the Clerk thus begins vers 18. accusing the Minister When thou sawest a thief then thou consentedst with him and hast been partaker with Adulterers Then the Minister accuses the Clerk Thou givest thy mouth to evil and thy tongue frameth deceit Then the Clerk falls upon the Minister again Thou sittest and speakest against thy Brother and slanderest thine own Mothers Son. Misrcp Hold hold Representer whether will you run you are e'en turning Christianity into a piece of Buffoonry and making a Drol of all Religion Represent You are altogether in the right on 't And this is what I told you in the beginning that there 's no making use of a Protestant Argument which serves that Party for
those expressions of the Fathers are only occasional or accidental but where they treat professedly of this Subject they speak plainly in our behalf and to follow the Rule of one of the Lights of your Church as you stile him in this Pamphlet I would fain know whether a mans judgment must be taken from occasional and incidental passages or from design'd and set discourses which is as much as to ask whether the lively representation of a man by Picture may best be taken when in haste of other business he passes by us giving only a glance of his Countenance or when he purposely and designedly sits in order to that end that his Countenance may be truly represented There 's no Book treats so fully and demonstratively of any Subject in one place but occasionally speaking of the same elsewhere from some obscure or dubious expression furnishes matter for an Objection against the Doctrine before designedly establish'd This is true even of the Bible it self which teaching Christ to be True Man do's yet by the occasional expression of St. Paul saying that he appear'd in Habit as a Man and in the Likeness of a Man give occasion to some to object that he was no Real and Substantial Man which strikes at the very Fundamental Truth deliver'd in that Sacred Volume and if this be true even of the Word of God it self what wonder to find it in the Works of the Fathers much more ample and voluminous Misrepresent This is another shift with a help of a Logical distinction however let this pass too But as long as you don't believe your sences but deny the certainty of those Powers which God has given us to lead us to the Belief of all the Mysteries of Christian Religion I am sure you contradict the Fathers and are in a fair way of undermining the very foundation of Christianity Represent This is the Cock-Argument of the other Light of your Church and it so far resembles the Light that like it it makes a glaring shew but go to grasp it and you find nothing in your Hand Why Misrepresenter even in this Mystery I believe more of my Sences than you do my Eyes tell me there is the colour of Bread and I assent to them my Tongue that it has the tast of Bread I agree to it my smelling that it has the smell of Bread I yield to it my Fingers that it feels like Bread I accept of the Information my Ears tell me from the Words spoken by Christ himself That it is the Body of Christ I believe these too Is not here Misrepresenter one Sence more than you believe And yet you would fain perswade the World I do not believe my Sences The Sence by which Faith comes is that of Hearing S. Paul possitively affirming that Faith comes by Hearing and how do I overthrow the certainty of Christian Religion by hearkning to that Sence by which all Faith is to be conveyed into my Soul Misrepresent You don't believe your Eyes which assure you of the Substance of the Bread being there even after Consecration Represent If your Eyes see the Substance of things they are most extraordinary ones and better than mine For my part mine never saw farther than the Colour or Figure c. of things which are only accidents and the entire Object of that Sence 'T is Reason or Judgment acquaints me with the Substance and this Judgment 't is true I frame generally from the Information of my Sences excepting when they are indisposed or some Divine Revelation intervenes For in this case I choose rather to judge from This than from my Sences as Abraham did who being told by his Sences That those three that appeared to him Gen 18. were Men and by a Revelation from God that they were Angels judged of them and their Nature according to the Revelation and not according to his Sences Misrepresent You are all upon Quirks and Philosophy to day and I am tired with your Distiactions and so farewel till the Holy-days are over Represent Fare you well but do you hear don't forget to send your People to the Chappels to Morrow Morning to see the Nursing and Rocking the Child in the Cradle This is one of your April-Errands for Christmas Morning and you don't think much of making the Papists ridiculous though it be at the expence of making your own people Fools Publish'd with Allowance London Printed by Henry Hills Printer to the Kings most Excellent Majesty for His Houshold and Chappel 1686. THE PAPIST Misrepresented and Represented SECOND PART CHAP. IIII. The Form of the Catholic Church establish'd by Christ No hopes of Salvation out of it The Practice of the Apostles and Primitive Church in this point Good at this day The Protestants as uncharitably damn the Papists as These are said to do the Protestants In reference to the Preface of Wholsome advises from the B. V. c. THe Papists Misrepresented is Member of a Church which excludes all others from the hopes of Salvation besides those who are within the Pale of her own Communion And no doubt his Church is True if uncharitableness be but a Mark of the True one if it be but safest to be on the uncharitable side he 's beyond all question in the right But certainly this is to leave the Rule of Christ and his Apostles and of the Primitive Church who taught none of this damning Doctrine but ever recommended Charity as the necessary foundation of a Christian life THe Papist Represented is taught that Christ our Saviour before his Ascension into Heaven establish'd a Church consisting of all True Believers amongst which he gave some Apostles and some Prophets and some Evangelists and some Pastors and Teachers for the perfecting of the Saints for the work of the Ministery for the edifying of the Body of Christ till we all come in the Vnity of Faith. Ephes 4. 11 12 13. These Apostles Evangelists Pastons and Teachers he constituted over the Faithful to over-see rule and direct them to whom he gave them in charge by the mouth of St. Paul Act. 20. 28. Take heed therefore unto your selves and to all the Flock over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you Over-seers to feed the Church of God which he hath pnrchas'd with his own blood with a strict Command to the Flock or Congregation of the Faithful to be obedient to these Pastors thus put over them by the Ordinance of God Heb. 13. 17. Obey them that have the rule over you and submit your selves for They watch for your Souls as they that must give account And vers 7. Remember them which have the rule over you who have spoken unto you the word of God whose Faith follow This command of submitting to Pastors was given to the Flock as he is taught by St. Paul for the preventing Divisions and Schisms that so notwithstanding their differing private Inclinations Capacities Sence and Judgment by this Obedience and Submission to those that
he think Bishop Jewel pray'd directly to the Sacrament do's he think He pray'd to the Bible and yet he owns he Worshipp'd them Both And in this WE Worship he expresses himself so like a Witness of the Doctrine of his Church that if our Modern Divines have not prevaricated from their Fathers and brought in New Protestantism being weaâ—y of the Old all the Sons of that Church are oblig'd to Worship them as much as that Prelate and this they may easily find a way to do without any necessity of praying to them directly 'T is not every thing that is any ways Worshipp'd is presently made an Obâ—ect capable of being Pray'd to I shew'd in my Last many things to be in some manner Objects of Worship which to Pray to would be an Absurdity For as Bishop Jewel Worship'd the Sacrament and Bible so we Worship the Bible too and as we Worship the Cross so likewise the Holy Sepulchre the Hâ—m of our Saviour's Garment his Crown of Thorns the very Ground on which his Sacred Feet stood and the Linnen in which his Body was laid not as God nor as Things capable of being pray'd to but as Bishop Jewel expresses it as Things in Religious wise to Christ belonging or as the Answerer has it as Things which have an eminent Relation to God and his Service And Jewel gives the Reason ib. p. 409. The Sacraments be ador'd says he but the whole honour resteth not in them but is passed over from them to the things signified As the Reverence shewn to a Bible or Church or Chair of State resteth not in them but passes over to God and the King. And as the Contempt shewn to a Duke's Picture or Pope's resteth not there but passes over to the Persons Represented This Nature Honest Reason and Practice easily understand however Learned Wranglers whose business is to overthrow not to build up may endeavour to confound it But we must Answer his Queries Quer. Whether the Crosses used in the Religious Service of the Church of Rome be mere Peices of Wood Answ Nothing more capable of being Pray'd to than mere Pieces of Wood. Quer. Whether they may not and are not to adore the Cross though they may not adore a mere Peice of Wood Answ Just as much as Bishop Jewel thought himself oblig'd to adore the Sacrament though he would not adore a mere piece of Bread. Quer. How the Cross which they Pray to Christ to Bless is made the Stability of Faith and Increase of Good Works Answ Just as the Bread and Wine may be to Protestants by being a Figure of Christ's Passion and a Remembrance of his Sufferings Quer. How the Cross upon which Christ hung may be Christ who hung upon the Cross Answ How the Cross may be Christ I can't tell But how the Word Cross may signifie Christ every School-boy knows as David in his Psalms often distinguishes the Earth from the People upon the Earth And yet often uses the Word Earth to signifie the People upon the Earth This is but a poor Cavil and very unbecoming Christians or Scholars to disturb the Nation withal Publish'd with Allowance LONDON Printed by Henry Hills Printer to the King 's most Excellent Majesty for His Houshold and Chappel 1686. THE CATHOLIC REPRESENTER CHAP. VII The Vulgar among the Papists not depriv'd of the Word of God. They are better instructed in the true Sence of it than those of other Perswasions who teach themselves The Vnlearned and Vnstable wrest it to their own Destruction A Papist Misrepresented takes up all his Belief upon trust he is led through all the Mysteries of his Religion by the hand without seeing which way or whether he goes All from begining to end is blindness and ignorance the Scripture which should be his light is taken from him and what knowledg can he have when the Word of God which was ordain'd by the divine Wisdom for the instruction and comfort of poor Sinners is snatcht out of his hand and kept from him A Papist Rerepresented believes as the Church of God teaches and this not blindly but knowingly and understandingly as far as the littleness of humane Reason and his own Capacity will give him leave In order to this his Church has provided him of variety of learned Books explicating to him the Sence of the Scriptures as likewise the Articles of his Creed every Mystery of his Religion the ten Commandments the Sacraments and the whole Duty of a Christian and this in such numbers both in Latin and English and all other Languages that whosoever reproches him with blindness in the midst of so many Lights may with as good Reason prove him to be in the dark when Noon-day shines upon him Besides these Books the Church has given direction to all Parish-Priests to explicate on Sundays and Holy-days the Gospel and some Mystery of Faith to such as are under their Charge and to instruct them how to live vertuously and die holily And now if notwithstanding these helps and assistance some in his Church believe without Understanding and live without the knowledg of their Duty 't is not the Church is to be blam'd which has provided them of sufficient Means but they themselves to be condemned of negligence and sloth who thus carelesly starve in the midst of plenty and die with the Remedy before them Neither does he understand that the charge of being led in blindness and ignorance can be justly laid to any even to the Vulgar of his Communion because they have not the Scriptures permitted them to read and interpret at pleasure since 't is evident to any that has taken a considerate view of the Christian World in those Countries where the Scripture is thus permitted there 's as much Vice as much Blindness as much Ignorance of the Christian Faith and Profession as in any place whatsoever So that tho they have a Light about them they are either not taught how to use it or else approching it with too much Confidence and Presumption come too near it and put out their eyes Besides what danger of Ignorance and Blindness can there be to the Vulgar of his Communion from the not reading the Scripture Since such means are us'd for the instructing them in the Mysteries therein contained that they are not at all depriv'd of it nay since 't is deliver'd to them with much greater advantage and more for the improvement of their knowledg in the Mysteries of Faith and Duty of a Christian than those have it amongst whom 't is promiscuosly thrown to read and judg it themselves For let any one upon a due consideration tell me Which is the Scripture what is properly the Word of God Is it the Words of the Bible or the true Sence and Meaning of those Words 'T is certain the letter availeth nothing 't is the Spirit that enlivens 't is the Sence that instructs to Salvation Our concern then at present is not which have more of the Words of
the whole is come to be no more than a Perswasion a Judgment an Opinion And now since these and infinite other mischiefs arise from the free permitting the Bible among the Multitude he thinks it commendable in his Church out of a true Solicitude for the Salvation of Souls to prevent these evils by teaching them the true Sence of this Sacred Volume and instructing them in their whole Duty as to all they are to believe and practice without leaving the Book to be scann'd by them as they please and so not permitting them to turn the Food of their Souls into Poyson or abuse that to theit Destruction which was ordain'd by Christ for their gaining of Heaven They are not therefore depriv'd of the Holy Scripture but have the whole benefit of it and all the comfort being instructed in the whole word of God only with this Advantage that 't is not left in their power to do themselves any mischief by abusing it And this is so ordered only in consideration of the Vulgar who are commonly very ignorant unsteady bold presuming or as St. Paul stiles them Vnlearn'd and Vnstable and easy to be deceiv'd whilst judicious men of his Communion any one that is Learned Prudent and Sober may be easily permitted to have the perusal of this Book to read it as much and as often as he pleases because such are not in danger of prejudicing themselves by false interpretations or preferring their own Sence before that which they receive from their Pastors and the Church 'T is not the Book therefore that is properly forbidden but only false and presumptuous interpretations of it and such only who are in all probability likely to do this are not permitted to read it And upon the whole there 's nothing more in this great noise of the Papist being depriv'd of the Word of God than that such as for the most part are not capable amongst them of reading it as they ought have not leave to read it and those that are capable may have in most Countreys leave to read it as they please Those that can read it to edification may have it at desire and those that are likely to read it to the perverting of Gods Holy Word and the destruction of their own Souls 'T is thought fit they should let it alone Publish'd with Allowance London Prnted by Henry Hills Printer to the King 's Most Excellent Majesty for his Houshold and Chappel 1686. THE CATHOLIC REPRESENTER CHAP. VIII The Vulgar not permitted to read the Bible among the Papists for fear they should discover the Errours of their Religion an Absurd Calumny The Restraint is That there may not be as many different Words of God as there are 〈◊〉 amongst them and may have something better ground that their own Imagination to direct their Faith a word to a Lay-friend Misrepresent YOu gave me no room to put in one word in your last but for all your long-winded Reasons there why the Vulgar of your Communion do not generally read the Scriptures I can apprehend no other but only that your Priesis and Jesuits being conscious of the unreasonableness of Popery and how contrary it is to the Truth of God's Word dare not allow the People the reading and perusirg it left finding their Religion not to stand the trial of the Scriptures they should discover the delusion and run over to the Reformation Represent I expect no better from you 't is your trade to make the worst of every thing the Papists do but the best on 't is your Misconstructions lie so open that there needs no more than a mere glimpse of Reason to discover all your Art. For if any of your Auditors should but once consider that tho' the Vulgar and unlearned of the Papists have not in some Countries the Bible promiscuously allow'd amongst them yet that in those same Countries and all others there 's no Colledge Vniversity Community or place of learning but where the Scriptures are publickly read and expounded if they should consider this I say Is it possible for them to believe that that Restraint is upon the Vulgar for fear they should see into the Foliies of their Religion If their Religion were so contrary to Scripture as you pretend is it not more likely the learned should make this discovery in their reading the Bible than the Vulgar if they had the like liberty Cannot Scholars as easily see the Truth of Scripture and what is erroneous and at defiance with it as the Vnlearned Or are the Errors and Foliies of Popery such that of necessity a man must be a Block-head to understand them Since when became Mechanics and Apron-strings so priviledg'd that to be bred up to the Anvil the Needle or the Ell should qualifie better for the understanding the Scriptures than application Study and the education of a Vniversity Or is it probable that every man amongst the Papists no sooner becomes Scholar but he turns Atheist That upon their search in the Bible they plainly see all the errors of their Religion and yet are so bewitched as to go on boldly and jocondly to the Devil without speaking a word or moving a step to save their own Souls or their Relations Come Misrepresenter this looks so like a sham of yours that I cannot but admire your confidence I wonder how you dare venture your credit in exposing such weak and ill-grounded Arguments You have men of sense and reason to deal with and 't is much they do not make exceptions But I suppose you rely upon the hearty Prejudice they have against Popery in which case you know they 'l take upon trust they 'l pin their Faith upon any mans Sleeve and let impossibilities pass for evident Truths without examination Misrepresent You may prove and preach as long as you please but I am sure thousands and thousands that I meet with will never believe otherwise than I tell you You do all things by design and you have no other reason notwithstanding all your loud pretences for keeping the Eible out of the hands of your common people but only the jealousie your Pastors have that by that Light they 'l see into the deformitys of Popery and prove Deserters Represent The men of this Creed are only such whose Eyes you have put out to lead them by the Nose after you where you please What ground can there be for this pretension at least here in England where the Bible in English or Rhemes-Testament is to be found in most Catholic Families If the Prohibition of not reading the Bible be as you pretend in other Countries for fear of the Vulgar discovering the Errors of their Religion How comes it they donâ—t make this discovery here Do you find so many Deserters in this Nation upon this score Many have quitted that Communion upon other motives best known to themselves but never any one I could meet with left them yet by reading and following the Word of God. Again
Profess'd with as little Control or Contradiction as t is at this Day in Italy or Spain I am sure if you should be told of any Neighbour of yours in this City that in his Devotions desires the Prayers of the Saints in Heaven Prays for the Souls of the Faithful Departed keeps Anniversary Days Signs his Forehead with the Sign of the Cross uses Exercisms Oyl Breathing and other Ceremonies in Baptizing his Children c. you would presently cry out A Papist A Papist And if you Censure such an one for a Papist now how can you perswade me the Primitive Christians were Protestants whom we have found Professing such Doctrines and Practices If it be Popery now to do so how was it Protestantism then Either you must make them Protestants that Teach those things at this Day amongst us or else they were none who Taught and Practis'd them heretofore Come I le ask you one Question Had you liv'd in those Days of the Primitive Church would you have Communicated or joyn'd with those Priests and Numerous People who after the Decease of Constantine were Praying round the Hearse for the Soul of the Emperour as 't is related by Eusebius de Vit. Const lib. 4 cap. 71 If you would not I conclude Those Priests and People were none of Your Church that is no Protestants And yet while you would have stood out then as Recusant I am confident such as at this Day Pray for the Soul of Charles 2. would then have Pray'd for Constantine's had they been then Living And These are such as you call Papists By which my Reason informs me That if â—le be a Christian as Christians were in the Primitive Church I must be no Protestant but a Papist since the Protestants of our Days would no more have joyn'd with the Christians of those Times than they do now with the Papists Misrepres You triumph now as if you had gotâ—a Victory and yet you have hiâ—herto done just nothing All your Proofs end in nothing but some Particular Instances and so I confess you have shewn some Private Doctors some Particular Men to have been acknowledg'd as infected with Popery in those Primitive Times by our Centuriators and other Protestant Divines But what 's all this to the Primitive Church Some Private Doctors and Opiniators might then be Papists 't is true but the Church was nevertheless Protestant Examine the Four First General Councils which were at that Time the Church Representative and you 'l see nothing Decreed by them but what We hold as Protestaâ—ts Repres You are for having me take all upon trust And tho' you cry out against Pinning Faith upon Sleeves yet I see if I don't pin my Faith upon your Sleeve I shall never be Protestant You Preach to me I must be guided by Reason and 't is not enough to Say the Primitive Church was Protestant but you must Prove it too if you 'l convince my Reason For my part by the Progress we have hitherto made I think I have Reason to think that not only some Private Men but that the Whole Church was then Popish as you call it For let us but reflect a little Who were These Men who by your Modern Protestants are accus'd of Popish Doctrines in those Times of Constantine and the Two Following Ages and we shall find they were the most Eminent the mosh Learned the most Exemplar and Best Men of their Times they were S. Augustine S. Hierome S. Chrysostome S. Athanasius S. Ambrose S. Gregory Nazianzen Nyssen S. Basil S. Hilary S. Cyril S. Paulinus S. Epiphanius c. These were the Men who living in those Primitive Ages of the Church are condemn'd and rejected by Modern Protestants for holding and maintaining Popish Doctrines These are they who are charg'd with Popery by the Centuriators by Osiander Chemnitius Melancthon Bullinger Beza Whitaker Humfrey Covel Whitgift Abbot Morton Fulk Trig Cartwright Field Hooker c. Now I need not ask here being upon Enquiry into the Faith of the Primitive Church whether Those Ancient Fathers cannot in all likelihood better inform me what was the Faith and Doctrine of the Church of their Times than other Modern Teachers who had not a Being in the World till Twelve or Thirteen Hundred Years after But I may consider with my self whether it be not most agreeable to Reason to think since such Eminent and Vertuous Men and Prelates as just now recited are accus'd of Popery that not only some Private Persons in those Primitive Times but that the Whole Church was then Popish I am assur'd by all Antiquity that these Persons that stand thus Indicted Govern'd the Primitive Church were Bishops Pastors and the most Exemplary of their Age the People or Flock were Instructed and Taught by them So that such Doctrines as they then Publish'd in their Writings and Preach'd to the People without Censure or Reproof I cannot look on as a Private or Closet-Concern but as the Public and Receiv'd Doctrine of their Times and that in the Sermons and Works of the Pastors is seen the Belief of the Flock And this will oblige me to conclude that Such Doctrines and Practices of which these Ancient Fathers and Doctors stand charg'd by Moderns was not the Doctrine of Private Men but of the Whole Church of their Times It being not at all probable to think while the Pastors are thus generally condemn'd for Papists that the People should be Protestants I demand of you Whether the Writings and Books of Protestant Prelates Doctors and Divines Publish'd under Edward 6. and Queen Elizabeth be not an Argument that besides shewing their Private Sentiments will prove likewise the Doctrine and Belief of Their Church and that whosoever quarrels with them for their Protestant Negatives and Dissenting from the Church of Rome do's not in the same Breath condemn their Whole Church of which they were Rulers and Overseers If so have not I equal Grounds to believe that the Concurring Sentiments of the Primitive Fathers was the Sense of the Primitive Church and that the accusing them of Popish Doctrines and Principles is a Condemnation of their Whole Church over which God had plac'd them Prelates Pastors and Teachers So that by all my Reason can discover yet if I am to be of the Religion of the Primitive Times I am to be no Protestant but continue as I am a Papist and if I were not so this your Appealing to the Primitive Church and our Search into it would e'en oblige me to renounce Your Communion who only make a Noise of the Primitive Church and are nothing like it but are as much for Reforming that as you did the Church of Henry 8. Misrepres Leave these Private Doctors and Fathers and look but into the First Four General Councils and you 'l soon discover that the Church of those Primitive Christians was nothing else but Protestant Repres I find too much of the Pope in those Councils to think they were Protestants The Pope Presides