that I never had any acquaintance or dealing with neither have I beene in his company to my knowledge one halfe houre together in my life nor have spoken two words with him these twenty yeares at least but onely about three or foure yeares agoe I having heard that he had threatned me spake to him at a Book-sellers stall in Cheape-side who heard what I said unto him And secondly for Robroughs testimony as touching an Epistleto the Church of Rome I confesse I have seen read such a Booke which was published in the yeare 1588. when I was not eighteene yeares of age and therefore farre unable to write such a book as I am still I confesse So that I could not possible be the Author thereof And whereas Robrough directeth to the ninth page of the said booke for proofe of his deposition where the Author having described to the Church of Rome the true Church of God and her true children sayth himselfe being as it seemeth then in Rome And yet thou sayest let me see her Behold be that writeth testifieth before the Throne of God and all his holy Angels that hee knoweth no one this day after the flesh that taketh part with him what then shall I say I am left alone God forbid for I see and heare with the eares and eyes of my soule the groanes the chaynes and teares of seven thousand whose obedience is greater then mine and of which number I am the least and as a poore and miserable and borne out of time am not worthy to be one of them and this is she who once Balam walkes in thy streets and all the earth was filled with her beauty c. And a little before in the same page of the booke he sayeth Whose modest countenance whose chast and comely steps walke in our streets c. meaning here in England himselfe being an English man So that Henry Robrough doth here also declare himselfe to be a very evill minded man in severall respects First in that hee altereth the Authors words where he sayeth That he knoweth no one this day after the flesh that taketh part with him and sets it downe that hee knoweth no man in the flesh that holdeth with him as if the Author meant and affirmed that there was no man living of his opinion so altering not onely his words but his very intent and meaning to another purpose for so it is set downe in the Briefe that was read to the Court that I affirmed that there was no man of my opinion but my selfe Secondly in that hee leaveth the words going before and comming after which doe plainely shew that he speaketh not of his opinion but of his sorrow and teares of repentance and therefore sayeth that he saw and heard with the eares eyes of his soule the groans the chaines and teares of seven thousand whose obedience was greater then his and judges himselfe not worthy to be one of them so that although at that instant he knew no one after the flesh yet he saw thousands after the spirit with the eyes of his mind whom hee preferreth before himselfe And thirdly in that the said Robrough deposeth and would prove by the said page of the said booke that I am the Author thereof that so by making himselfe another false witnesse with Okey he might accomplish Okeys vow against me that hee would never leave me till hee made me frie For Okey deposeth as it seemeth from the same page of the said book judging also me to be the Author that I affirmed that I was as Elyas left alone Whereupon the voyce of one Bishop in the passing sentence against me was that I should goe the same way to heaven that Elyas went through fire though he thought he said I should never come there as Elias did whereas the Author doth not say hee was as Elyas left alone but what then shall I say I am left alone God forbid which is the cleane contrary and therefore these two evill men as before with the rest of their fellowes so here from the fountaine and evill treasure of their hearts they have brought forth their evill and bitter fruit which any judicious Christian may perceive And whereas I am charged to have used many reproachfull speeches of the Ministers of the Church of England which though they be not set downe in the Sentence yet they are in their testimonies the speeches are these that there is a generation of Pharisees among the Ministers of the Church of England They that testifie to this are Peter Worcester and Susan Price and the Ministers that I should use these speeches of Susan Price nameth Master Denison and Master Robrough for the principall and Worcester another whom I will not here name My Answer and Defence I would it were not true that there is a generation of Pharisees among the Ministers as well as among the people and although it be not an usuall thing with me so to speake of any Minister by name yet I might well say it of these two which this woman nameth for principall and doe them no wrong at all and no doubt they have more fellowes else were the Church of England the rarest Church that ever was in the world And lastly whereas they charge me that I have by this meanes drawne many from the Church of England to be Schismaticks and Separatists and caused them or some of them to forbeare to participate with us c. My Answer and Defence is This is a very false accusation not withstanding their mouthes be all open to witnesse it First for my selfe it is well knowne in all places where I have lived what my behaviour hath beene For so it is that since the beginning of the yeare 1588. now above these forty yeares I have lived in or nere unto the Citty of London and untill now that Master Denison and his Sociats had thus prosecuted against me I was never presented nor once complained of for any neglect or ill carriage towards the Church of Englands either in one respect or other and that I have frequented the publike Assemblies and Sacraments for neere twenty yeares last past before my imprisonment I have sufficient Certificate and testimony for proofe of the same which I had ready to shew to the Court if my defence had beene admitted and I never was in any private Assembly in my life where I have either received the Sacrament my selfe nor seene it done by others So that for mine owne part I am neither Schismaticke nor Separatist And for others I know there is not a man living that can truely say much lesse depose that I have drawne or caused any one to Schisme or Separation from the Church of England not to refuse to participate either in Prayers Preaching or Sacraments nay I am sure that neither Master Denison nor all the enemies else I have in the world are able to bring forth one But on the Contrary there be sundry can witnesse that I
such like circumstances as in the 83. Pag. of the said booke against Anabaptists is also set downe alwayes provided as it must be understood that it be the true worship of God that is commanded and not any idolatry or heathenish superstition as is now in the Church of Rome commanded and practised these things being so then I reason thus further If Caesar or our King Law and Authoritie may command a place and places times c. for the publique worship of God that is to say for the assembling together of the people of God to prayer preaching reading and hearing of the word of God the administration and participation of the Sacraments praising and giving thankes unto God for all his benefits c. and that all true Christian Subjects are bound to obey the King Law and Authoritie and come to the publique worship of God in those publique places times c. then no Christian subject may separate or schisme therefrom nor make any private assemblies speake practise or doe any thing in opposition or contradictory thereunto Nay but on the contrary every Christian subject young and old is bound to be thankfull unto God day and night that hath vouchsafed to dispose the hearts of Kings Princes and Authoritie of that Nation whereof he is a member and a subject to set their helping hands to build the walls of Ierusalem to cast out the abominations of the Heathen and of Antichrist and restore the morning and evening sacrifice of praise and thanksgiving as in the former time and in the dayes of old which the Kings Princes and Authority of this our Nation have in some good measure done to the great benefit of the same thankes be unto God therefore So that taking my words right as they are Caesar may command a place for the publique and this will be the true and necessary consequence of them and then these words so he forbid none in private will receive of all charitable minded Christians a more favourable construction then to tend to the maintaining of the private assemblies of Familists Separatists or other Sectraies but onely to preserve the libertie that every Christian hath to worship God to pray unto him and doe him service at all times and in all places every where even in our secret chambers with humble and contrite hearts lifting up pure hands as the Scriptures speake Ioh 4. 23. Mat. 6. 6. 1 Thes. 5. 17 18. 1 Tim. 2. 8. and as it is in Psal. 111. 1. How false and deceitfull therefore Henry Robrowgh hath here sworne and dealt I refer to the indifferent discreet Reader to consider And secondly in that the chargeth me to agree with the Familists in the perfect puritie of the soule after regeneration and onely upon the report of one Iesop as himselfe saith I refer also this to the wise to consider how safely he may depose the same of me upon the report of another whereas for my part whatsoever Iesop hath said or holdeth I never held any such thing but doe hold the soule of the holiest man living to be impure and although as Paul faith of himselfe a regenerate Christian doth in his minde serve the law of God yet neverthelesse through the law and strength of his corrupt members he even his soule is led captive to the law of sinne and of death and so is a captive to sinne but not a servant Neither did I ever agree with the Familists or any other such like blasphemous sect in any of their tenents and opinions but have opposed and disproved them according to my abilitie as in the aforesaid booke against Anabaptists is to be seene and as some can testifie so that herein also Mr. Robrowgh is a false witnesse how rightly I have been condemned by the Court for these things upon these testimonies I refer to the discreet Christian Reader to consider Their third Accusation as it is in the sentence of the Court according to Mr. Denisons fourth Article That the said Etherington within the time aforesaid hath also maintained and published that the Church of England is no true Church of Christ and that it teacheth false doctrine To the first part that the Church of England is no true Church of Christ Rowland Thomson Thomas Rogers and Henry Robrowgh doe depose and testifie The testimony of Thomson To the fourth he deposeth and saith that he this deponent hath within the time articulate heard the said Etherington maintaine or publish some of the opinions articulate viz. that the Church of England as it is now by Law established is no true Church of Christ The testimony of Rogers To the fourth Article he deposeth and saith that the said Etherington hath within the time articulate and since the 20 of December 1623. held and published in this deponents and his precontest Thomsons presence that the Church of England as it is here by Law established is no true Church of Christ The testimony of Robrowgh To the fourth Article he deposeth that the articulate Etherington hath of this deponents knowledge within the time articulate maintained and published that the Church of England as it is here by Law established is no true Church of Christ because he teacheth this true Church to consist of the regenerate onely as in his booke against Separatists Pag. 15. My answer and defence Thomson and Rogers they as two confederates keepe close together in their conspiracy against me for although I neither published nor spake to or in the hearing or presence of them or any other that the Church of England as it is now by Law established is no true church of Christ nor any thing to such purpose yet these two Joyners as well acquainted before hand with Mr. Denisons Articles and being with Henry Robrowgh the chiefe of his counsell in the inventing and making them to confirme what they had begun by a secret equivocation they depose upon some words which I spake in answer to their questions and demands that I had published as aforesaid and because they will be sure to agree in one tale they come both together to the office to be examined and there Rogers standing by Thomson while he was examining which is the reason why the Examiner calleth Thomson Rogers precontest as being examined immediately before him and in his presence and hearing which my selfe comming to the Office the same time saw let not the Reader therefore marvaile that they so well agree They name no time place nor person to be present besides themselves Rogers and his precontest when I should publish this thing and I was never in company with these two men alone at any time Christ sayth He that doth evill hateth the light and he that doth well commeth to the light c. wherefore if these mens consciences had not accused them of their false and evill dealing and that they had not feared their evill deeds to be discovered they would no doubt have named both time and place and some of the
false and very erroneous doctrine and to be a dangerous step of falling from Christ for Saint Paul testifieth plainly that the Gentiles which had not that Law of Circumcision and the Sabbaths c. might have the truth and effect thereof in their hearts and be a Iew inwardly in the spirit though not outwardly in the flesh so that there was never such a necessity as those false Teachers taught and most part of the Jewes conceived nay they ought to have knowne that although themselves that had the Law to whom especially it was given were bound to observe it to the utter-most of their power yet if they fayled in any part as all did in many and so in all parts they might be saved another way through the grace and mercy of God in the Gospell and that of this there was alwayes a necessitie and without the same no man could be saved and that a Gentile having the same grace should be saved though he were ignorant of the Law for this is the effect which was signified by those signes and shadowes which are now as it was a law to the Iewes ceased to Christians Unto all this doe agree the best approved writers of the Christian Church both of the antient and latter sâ—â—ce the Apostles times as Hierome upon Gal. 4. Augustine in his Epistles ch. 19. and in his booke Conscientiae Diaeta and of the Spirit and letter chap. 14. and upon these words of Christ Take up thy bed and walke Tract. 17. Tertullian also in his booke Adversus Iudaeâ—s and others And of the latter Master Tindall in his answer to Master Moores first booke page 287. Doctor Barnes in declaration of the cause of his condemnation page 106. Master Fâ—ith in his declaration of Baptisme page 96. Master Calvin and others and as it is contayned in the Harmony of consessions of the Reformed Churches page 473. and page 499. besides sundry writers of this present age So that in this I am not singular though I differ from Master Denison Their fift accusation That the Bookes of Esdras are and ought to be esteemed part of the Canonicall Scripture They that testifie to this are Rowland Tomson and Susan Price their testimonies are both according to the words of the Sentence My Answer and defence Their testimonies to this also as they have given it into the Court are false for I never said that the two last Bookes of Esdras which it seemeth they meane are or ought to be held canonicall or part of the canonicall Scripture But this I say and doe beleeve that Esdras was a holy Prophet and true servant of God and that those his two last Bookes are as well as the rest holy and true as sundry Divines have esteemed him and written of them and one Booke now publike Printed first in Queene Elizabeths dayes and presented to the Lord Robert Devoreux Earle of Essex upon the 11. chap of the last Booke of Esdras wherein matters of great moment are manifested worthy I dare say to be regarded of every true Christian that desires understanding And I dare say further that they have done and doe very wickedly which rayle against him calling and counting him a counterfeit a lyer a blasphemer as some have done it had beene farre more wisdome for them to have left him in these his last Bookes and suspended their judgements untill time the tryer and discoverer of truth from falshood should manifest things more clearely that so upon cleare proofe of experience they might have judged rightly of that which through want of understanding they could see before Their sixt accusation as it is in the Sentence That the said Iohn Etherington within the time aforesaid hath kept private Conventicles or exercises of Religion by the Lawes of the Realme prohibited and taken upon him in such Conventicles to be the chiefe speaker or expoundâ—r of the Scripture and hath many adherents disciples and followers of his doctrine and giveth many oppositions contrary to the received opinions taught in the Church of England saying that outward ordination of a Minister doth snot make a true Minister And hath useth many reproachfull speeches to and of the Ministers of the Church of England And by this meanes hath seduced and drawn many from th Church of England to be Scismatiques and separatists and caused them or some of them to forbeare to participate with us in the celebrating of Devine service and Sacraments They that testifie to this are Rowland Tomson Thomas Rogers Christopher Nâ—cholson Peter Worcester Susan Price Henry Robrough Iohn Okey George Dunne Here like pursuers of blood they cry out together with open mouth as if they meant now at last to swallow me up quite and cleane this being the maine toyle which they from the beginning had layed whereby above all they made sure account to take me Their depositions to this sixt Accusation are not onely many but so long and tedious that if I should set them all downe with answers to every particular thing in them it would require more time and space then all that is already past and would weary any sober mind to read them over I will therefore give my answer defence to that which is contained in the words of the Sentence as being the maine and summe of all as also to the chiefe of their depositions and leave the rest untill some further occasion shall serve My Answer and Defence To the first concerning private Conventicles and exercises of Religion by the Lawes of this Realme prohibited my answer is It is a false accusation I never kept any such nor have done otherwise then I have acknowledged in my Defence to their first Article as one Christian neighbour or friend may and ought to doe to and with another which I am out of all doubt the lawes of this Realme doe not forbid neither I hope ever will And secondly whereas they say that I take upon me to be a chiefe speaker or expounder of the Scriptures and to have many adherents disciples and followers c. My answer is They charge me in this also very falsely I am so farre from taking upon me such things as that I doe reject the very thought thereof in my selfe especially and have opposed and reproved such as have so done and beene so affected as some can witnesse although I confesse I have beene free and alwayes ready to speake to my neighbour and friend and children c. whatsoever I have knowne and understood of the word and wayes of God as I have beene also to heare and recite and so I hope I shall continue to doe as time and occasion shall serve so long as I live Thirdly in that they charge me to give many expositions contrary to the received opinions taught in the Church of England The chiefe besides those before mentioned of Repentance c. which I confesse are contrary to Mâ—ster Denisons and Robroughs doctrine being as it seemeth this contained in the Sentence
and evill dealing moved the Bishops with another poynt not in the sentence concerning Baptisme which I could not deny but indeavored to maintaine for a truth and they much apposed me in and alledged the words of the Booke of Common prayer that God had sanctified the flood Jordan and all other waters to the mysticall washing away of sin and said unto me as thou dost convey water in thy Pipes so is grace conveyed in the act of Baptisme and so it was by Circumcision c. And Doctor Cozens he being by withstood me also in that I said and affirmed withall as touching the Lords Supper that the very flesh of Christ was eaten with our teeth which I could not but say was grosse Popery so upon these occasions the Bishops displeasures were kindled against me things were left without any further examining and I was sent again to prison wherewith straighter usage then I had before I have now endured above these twenty months and he my accuser was now further allowed to publish what he listed against me not onely in Print but in his Pulpits also as hee still doth his Booke hee presenteth to the King and made suite as I heere to have me put to death for it was my blood he thirsted after as his Sermons and Bookes doe prove the cause you have seene related Otherwise if this point of Baptisme which he as it seemeth knew would moove the Bishops against me had not beene by him forced unto them I had no doubt been cleered by them Therefore because Inow suffer for it as well as for any things else I will declare my minde therein more fully The point or tenent is this That outward Baptisme doth neither conferre nor confirme grace to the heart of any man no more than Circumcision did in the aforesaid booke against Anabaptists page 61. Which I doe acknowledge and justifie to bee true in defense of the Baptisme and doctrine of the Church of England against Anabaptists Arminians and Papists against Anabaptists who held that all such as they Baptised with outward Baptisme were thereby confirmed to bee true Christians inwardly in the sight of God against Arminians and Papists who hold that outward Baptisme doth conferre grace to the heart and maketh a Christian inwardly From which doctrine of each falling away after regeneration from the estate of salvation to everlasting condemnation doth necessarily follow free will and other absurd and unsound points of doctrine which they likewise hold and teach contrary to the doctrine of the Church of England which are also disproved in the same Book against Anabaptists the Book being viewed over by the Bishop of London and by himselfe allowed as is aforesaid I doe acknowledge as I also believe that outward Baptisme is a visible signe or outward signification of the new birth from above and of that Baptisme wherein wee are said to bee buried with Christ and risen with him and to put him on and which saveth and that it doth signifie and set forth the same unto us and I doe believe also that it is a seale or token of the Covenant which God hath made with the faithfull and their seed as Circumcision in the flesh was to faithfull Abraham and his seed as in Gen. 17. 7. 8. 11. and Rom. 4. 11. Not all that came of Abraham after the flesh nor all that were circumcised or that are now Baptised in the flesh but 〈◊〉 God said to Abraham In Isaac shall thy seed be called that is as Saint Paul saith they which are the Children of the flesh these are not the Children of God but the Children of the promise are counted for the Seed Rom. 9. 78. they that are Circumcised in heart and are of the same faith As Rom. 4. 16. for that is the sure seak of the covenant And on our parts wee doe thereby give our names to Christ and Covenant with God to bee his people and to serve him and so it giveth us the name and state of a Christian outwardly as circumcision on the flesh did the name and state of a Jew outwardly It doth no more give or conferre grace to the heart to make a Christian inwardly then circumcision in the flesh did to make a Jew or a Christian inwardly for to be a Jew inwardly and to be a Christian inwardly is all one in truth as also to bee circumcised in heart and to bee baptized in heart is all one in trueth as Saint Paul declareth Coloss. 2. 11. 12. and so it followeth that Circumcision in the flesh and Baptisme in the flesh are both one in signification and operation Wherefore if these things bee so and that hee is not a Jew which is one outwardly nor that circumcision which is outward in the flesh but he is a Jew which is one inwardly and Circumcision is that of the heart in the spirit not in the letter whose praise is not of men but of God as Paul saith then Neither Circumcision in the flesh nor Baptisme in the flesh doth give or conferre or worke grace in the heart to make a Jew or a Christian inwardly neither are they or either of them any part of the new birth from above or of that Baptisme wherein wee are said to put on Christ and to bee buried with him and which saveth as Saint Peter also confirmeth saying The like figure whereunto even Baptisme doth also now save us not the putting away of the filth of the flesh but the answer of a good conscience toward God by the Resurrection of Iesus Christ 1. Pet. 3. 21. Otherwise if either Circumcision or Baptisme on the flesh did conferre grace to the heart then all are thereby set in the state of salvation and so the errour of falling away which the Anabaptists Arminians and Papists hold will necessarily follow because it is evident that all are not saved that have beene circumcised or baptized in the flesh or if either of them were a part of regeneration then no one could be saved without the one or the other because every part of regeneration is of necessitie to salvation But it is certaine that many are saved which were never circumcised nor baptized in the flesh as besides all those faithfull that lived before either Circumcision or Baptisme on the flesh was instituted all the holy women of the Jewes That every part of regeneration is of necessitie to salvation the Lord Jesus hath irrevocably concluded saying Except a man be borne of Water and of the Spirit he cannot enter into the Kingdome of God Iohn 3. both the parts of this new birth are of necessity to salvation These words except a man bee borne doe stand as firme for the first part of Water as for the second part of the Spirit And under the name man every child of man born of flesh young and old male and female are comprehended so that whosoever dyeth without the first part of this birth the Baptisme of water here meant shall as certainly
and strange poynts of doctrine and also to expound the holy Scriptures unto them and that he the said Etherington doth take upon him as a Teacher in matters of doctrine and is so generally reputed among his proselites and followers as he this deponent hath heard and beleeveth The deposition of Robrowgh To the first Article he deposeth and saith that he hath knowne the articulate Etherington for these foure or five yeares past or thereabout and knoweth that he for most part of the time articulate professed himselfe to be a man able to interpret the Scriptures and that to those which are not of his owne family or houshold because he hath opposed some Ministers of the Church of England in disputation which his writings between him and this deponent and likewise his printed bookes doe plainly shew and also because this deponent once meeting with him and his company to dispute of matters of Religion told him the said Etherington that he this deponent was exhorted by a Minister not to trouble himselfe in disputation with him whereupon the said Etherington replyed that the said Minister so spake it because he was afraid to contest with him the said Etherington These are the words as they stand recorded by the Register My answer and defence Here Mr. Denison and his Witnesses at their very first entrance doe plainly shew forth and discover their evill conspiring mindes against mee for it is well knowne which they could not be ignorant of neither if they were will it in this case excuse them that although I left the trade that I had used which they so often mention by the name of a Box-maker in scorne and derâ—sion as any man may well perceive though it may beseeme a poor Christian like my selfe well enough if it were meaner then it is yet did I not then or thereupon betake my selfe to the expounding or interpreting of the Scriptures as a teacher or instructer to many persons as they speake neither did I leave it for any such end nor to live or have any maintenance thenceforth for such a thing as they my accusers by their cunning Article and deceitfull testimonies would make the Court and the world beleeve but I betooke my selfe to another kinde of trade or worke as low and servile as it touching the conveyance of water in pipes that I made of earth which I had used seven or eight yeares before and had now necessary occasion requiring me to follow altogether by reason of a worke I had to do for the serving of the City of Westminster with water and not utterly leaving or forsaking the other as they depose but made use thereof also as need required in things concerning this which I have followed with much labour and paines night and day as well for the maintenance of my selfe my wife and children as for the good and benefit of others as all or most of the Inhabitants of Westminster and sundry other Gentlemen and Inhabitants of London and other parts of the Kingdome for whom I have done the same kinde of worke will testifie for me and wherein I should at this present time also be imployed for the supply of my own and my wife and childrens present wants and for the good of the Common-wealth if I were not through the envy of my for-mentioned enemies pleasure of the Court restrained by imprisonment for God doth know that as I hold it to be a more blessed thing to give then it is to receive as Christ hath said and St. Paul testifieth so I doe desire in my heart to give and doe service in that kinde to others rather then to receive of any Neither have I ever in my life taken upon me or any way assumed to my selfe the office name or place of a teacher or instructer over any people in any private conventicle or meeting whatsoever nor have so much as to imitate Ministers or teachers in any manner of forme gesture expounding or interpreting or to be as a chiefe leader or to have proselites or followers or a company as they my accusers charge me but doe utterly dislike all such bold presumptuous practices and have opposed and reproved them as some that know me well and things that I have writ can witnesse Neverthelesse this I confesse that not onely for five or six yeares past but for these five or six and thirty yeares since the time that it pleased God of his gracious goodnesse to call me from the pleasures of the sinnes of my youth to seeke him I have given my minde with earnest desire of my heart and prayer unto God to reade heare and understand the word of God to the end that understanding the truth and way of life conteined in the same I might walke therein all the dayes of my life to the honour of God and my owne comfort and salvation For I remembred that Christ commanded to search the Scriptures and foretelling of the abomination of desolation that was to come warneth his people that who so readeth should understand and how he doth pronounce them blessed that reade and heare the words of his prophecy and keepe those things which he hath spoken because the time of his comming is at hand and as God vouchsafed to shew his grace and mercies unto me and give me understanding in the same his truth and way of life so I have endeavoured to impart that which I understood with admonition to my wife and children neighbour and friend desiring in my heart and praying unto God in secret that he would vouchsafe the same grace unto them This I confesse I have done though in great weaknesse and so as holding it alwayes a speciall poynt of wisdome to be more ready in this respect to receive then to give to heare then to speake and I confesse I have not been in all this time of thirty-five yeares so conversant and sociable with the prophane multitude of the world as I have been with the sober and well disposed the wise in heart I have desired to converse with such especially above all other wheresoever I have come to talke and confer together of the word of God which wee have either heard or read or had in our hearts and memories edifying one another in the faith hope of eternall life This on the first day of the weeke and so daily as opportunitie might permit I confesse I have done in societie with such persons remembring the charge given by St. Paul to every Christian saying Take heed brethren least there be in any of you an evill heart of unbeliefe in departing from the living God but exhort one another daily while it is called to day least any of you be hardened through the deceitfulnesse of sinne And againe Let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good workes not forsaking the assembling of our selves together as the manner of some is but exhorting one another and so much the more as
That outward Ordination of a Minister doth not make a true Minister Deposed by Henry Robiough from the foresaid booke against Anabaptists To which I answer and confesse that the words are in the place of the booke and I am not afraid to justifie them to be truth agreeing with the Scriptures and with the Doctrine of the Church of England as I meant them I doe not say that out ward Ordination of a Minister doth not make a lawfull Minister outwardly nay I acknowledge it doth So as that hee may lawfully Minister and people may lawfully receive the word and Sacraments with him according to the 26. and 36. Articles of the Church of England and as it was in the Apostles times and in the Church of the Iewes with Christs approbation But this I say that outward Ordination doth not make a true and faithfull Minister inwardly in Gods accounts he may be a deceiver a false Prophet an Antichrist notwithstanding which they that are true in Gods account called and sanctified of him by a more speciall heavenly inward calling may not for they are built upon the Rocke the gates of hell shall not prevaile against them Otherwise if outward Ordination of a Minister did make a true Minister inwardly in Gods account then all they of the Church of Rome must needs be true Ministers for they have outward Ordination as they have also outward Baptisme and such as wee doe not hold needfull to be cast off if any come out from them and receive another outward Ordination and Baptisme before they may administer or be received for true Ministers or true Christians as the Anabaptists opinions is So that of necessity there must be some more excellent thing or things besides outward Ordination and outward Baptisme to make a true Minister and a true Christian in Gods account Neither were the words spoken or given in a private Conventicle to adherents or disciples of mine as my doctrine to them as my answers seeme to depose or at least as the Register set it downe and is in the Sentence But they were written in defence of the calling of the Ministers of the Church of England and of the Sacrament of Baptisme here administred against the Separatists and Anabaptists who denyed the same and was published in print with licence of the Bishop of London being first viewed over by himselfe and by his appointment by Master Crashaw then Minister of White-Chappell who did also approve of the same and suscribe to them which is well knowne to be true And this deponent Henry Robrough chargeth me further saying That hee knoweth the Articulate Etherington doth teach and maintaine opinions which doe derogate from the Iurisdiction of Bishops because he interpreteth that place of Scripture Math 18. Tell the Church to be understood of the little ones borne of God as in his booke against Separatists page 74. To which I answer That if Master Robrough can and when he shall infallibly prove as he doth here in effect sweare that Bishops are not not can be of the little ones borne of God spoken of in Mat. 18. then will I grant his deposition to be true in the meane time hee proveth himselfe a false accuser and one that denieth Bishops to be of the holy Catholicke Church of Christ which I doe not For although it be true that the little ones borne of God the lively stones built on the head corner-stone Iesus Christ be the true Church of Christ against which the gates of hell shall not prevaile and to which Christ hath given the keyes of the Kingdome of heaven as in Mat. 16. and Matt. 18. and 1 Pet. 2. and other Scriptures is evident And that the places and Iurisdictions of Bishops be now great and great and high places be dangerous and slippery places as the Scriptures speake and experience lamentable hath a long time and often proved yet notwithding I undoubtedly beleeve that Bishops have been or may and shall be found to be of the little ones borne of God and so of Christ true Church against which the gates of hell shall not prevayle c. When many a one of as low a place in the Church as Master Robrough shall come short of being of that number For I know that he that is greatest may be as the least and he that is chiefe as him that serveth according to the word and commandement of Christ And it greatly concerneth every such one so to be and to beare with his weake Christian brother and not to constraine him with any kind of violence either in words or deeds to doe things against his conscience which he is not nor can yet be perswaded of though otherwise lawfull because whatsoever is not of faith is sinne That so ruling in wisedome and judging alwayes righteous judgement instructing with truth in the spirit of meekenesse and love shewing mercy with good works of charity hee may receive double honour of his Christian brethren and so continuing be found one of those of whom Christ sayeth Blessed is that Servant whom his Lord when he commeth shall find so doing But otherwise if any one so intrusted in place of authority shall begin to smite his fellowes to eate and drinke with the drunken c. the same servants Lord will come in a day that hee is not aware of c. and will hew him in peeces and give him his portion with hyporites And Iohn Okey the man that vowed hee would not leave me till he made me fry to this of the fourth Article he deposeth saying That he knoweth that the said Etherington held that hee was as Elias left alone and that he knew none to be of the visible Church of God but himselfe These are Okeys words as they stand in the deposition which in the Briefe that was read to the Court are altered and set downe thus That within the time articulate the said Etherington hath affirmed that he was as Elyas left alone and that he knew none of the visible Church of God but himselfe And to this deposition of Okeys is also added another of Henry Robroughs his words as they stand in the briefe which was read to the Court are these That the Author of the Epistle to the Church of Rome viz. Iohn Etherington affirmeth that he knoweth no man in the flesh that holdeth with him That the said Etherington is the Author of the book intituled The Epistle to the Church of Rome looke page 9. My Answer and Defence First for the words of Okey they are a very false accusation in both places I never held neither affirmed nor thought any such thing of my selfe but doe hold it a vile and wicked thing for any man so to thinke much more to affirme to himselfe or of any other How Okey knoweth that I held this of my selfe which he deposeth in the first place or who heard me affirme so of my selfe in the second place he mentioneth not And for him he is a man