with the triumphant church And not by all sorts as in outward societie and profession are linked together who yet are not excluded from the societie in respect of profession nor denied to be members of the Church in their kinde or in a sort such as are called onely by externall vocation are members in their kinde of that company called or externally selected but not true members of the Church militant nor militant members of the Church catholique whereof Christ is the head And thus the church is a company of faithfull people sincere upright walking with God which is mixed with hypocrites and wicked livers not as living members of Jesus Christ but as members in a sort of the visible societie as members in the church by outward profession but not of the true militant church SECT V. BEfore I end this point Neces of Separat p. 179 180 181. Babel no Bethel pag. 108. Chall ca. 1. pag 33 34. I will here lay downe some few Syllogismes intirely made up between the Inconformists and Conformists all concluding the forenamed position That Church which hath not a lawfull Ministery is not a true visible Church But the Church of England hath not a true lawfull Ministery Ergo The Church of England is not a true visible Church The proposition is affirmed of the Conformists Sutcl Chal. pa. 40. and answ to the except pag. 65. as Burton Sutcliffe The Assumption is granted by the Nonconformists as we have in the first chapter largely shewed The true visible Church of Christ is a societie of beleeving and faithfull people and a communion of Saints so say the Conformists But the Church of England is not a societie of beleeving and faithfull people a communion of Saints thus write the Nonconformists see page 169. Ergo the Church of England is not the true visible Church The true Church is the Kings daughter described in Psalme 45. But the Church of England is not the Kings daughter so described Therefore the Church of England is not the true Church of Christ Burton answer to Hicholia pag. 100. The proposition is laid downe by the Conformists whereby they prove Rome a false Church The Assumption is the Nonconformists For if they say the truth their members have not those qualities belonging to the Kings daughter neither the Priest nor people See pag. 15.16 39.137 â—â— 69.170 The true Church of Christ is the flocke of Christ 〈◊〉 the Church of England is not the true flock of Christ therefore the Church of England is not the true Church of Christ. The proposition say the Conformists is undeniable BurtoÌ„ in the same Booke pag. 99. Song 1.6 7 Act 20.28 Joh 10.16 Theâ—e Assumption is proved by the Nonconformists Principles compared with Joh. 10.3 4.27 Christs flocke heare his voice and live it and follow it But the Church of England submitting to aâ— unlawfull Minisstery worship and discipline heare not Christs voice nor know nor acknowledge nor follow it but the voyce of Antichrist The Church of God doth keepe the doctrine of the Apostles and Prophets without addition alteration or corruption thus the Conformists Sutcl Chal. cap. 1. pag. 6. arg 9. But the Church of England keepes not the doctrine of the Apostles and Prophets without addition alteration and corruption say the Nonconformists Sec pag 108 Ergo shee is not the Church of God No societie can be tearmed Gods Church which retaineth not Gods true worship this the Conformists But the Church of England doth not retaire Gods true worship say the Nonconformists See pag. 78 to the 213. Ergo The same Booke pag. 13. arg 19. shee cannot be tearmed Gods church The true Church consisteth not of fierce Lyons Wolves Tigres and such like wilde and fierce beasts But of Sheepe and Lambes which learne of Christ and are meeke humble gentle c. So say the Conformists But the English Church doth consist of Lyons Id. pag. 27. arg 〈◊〉 Wolves Tigres and such like wilde and fierce beast's and not of Sheepe and Lambes which learne of Christ and are meeke humble and gentle c. Thus the Nonconformists see pag. 31. c. 145.169 Therefore it is not the true Church Here the Reader seeth cleerely how the Conformists Majors and the Nonconformists Minors make up intire Syllogismes of Separation And how they will be able to loose these knots I know not except by revoking utterly their own grounds which if either of them doe yet I doubt not but we shall be well enough able to maintaine them against men ANSVVER YOu please your selfe with the same Song which here we have over againe and againe tuned with the same art But that which you talke of the Conformists Majors and the Inconformists Minors your slanders set aside is idle and toyish For in that matter there is no difference betwixt the Conformists and the Inconsormists The Conformists Majors as they are truely meant the Inconformists doe assent unto And the abuse of ignorance idlenesse prophanenesse both of Ministers people whereof the Nonconformists complaine the Conformists doe acknowledge and bewaile And your selfe a little after in a matter of the same nature affirme that herein you say no more than what in effect is fully acknowledged Can. Neces of Separat pag. 193. by the Nonconformists Conformists the Church of England the learned generally and all the reformed Churches upon earth and for proofe you quote the same Authors you here all edge And why then doe you trifle thus with the Conformists Major and Inconformists Minor Did the sound of those words please you so well But let the Majors and Minors be whose they will no intire or perfect Syllogismes of Separatisme can be made up of them but such as ignorance in not understanding or an evill conscience in perverting or falsifying their sayings doth conclude They may well stand to their grounds and unloose those knots and if they understand their owne principles they cannot but untie them But how you can free your selfe from the guilt of an evill conscience unlesse you recant what you have written repent of your Separation and acknowledg the wrong you have done to the Nonconformists by misreporting perverting and falsifying their principles as you call them I leave to your serious consideration and the reexamination of what you have done For the right understanding of the Conformists propositions Iâ— speake in your phrase against the Church of Rome we must note That the Romanists hold the Church of Rome to be the catholique Church of Christ here on earth under the Pope the Head in which sense their propositions are to be understood For the true catholique militant Church is a faithfull people a communion of Saints the flocke of Christ that heareth his voyce keepeth the doctrine of the Prophets and Apostles without addition or alteration and worshippeth God truly according to his will And there is truly and properly no member of the militant Church catholique which doth not
against Martiall Preface to the reader Bellarm. lib. 3. de justifi c. 8. Non potest aliquid certuÌ„ esse certitudine fidei nisi aut immediate contineatur in verbo Dei aut ex verbo Dei per evidentem consequentiaÌ„ deducatur Park de pol. Eccl. l. 1. c. 1.4 Separabant se sacerdotes et Levitae qui Deum timebant 2 Chro. 11.14 Atqui haec separaâ—â—o ab Israelitis idolatris erar quâ— legemcult umque Dei per idola Ieroboam fundamentaliter sustulerunt Aug. de unit eccl c. 16. Let the Donatists if they can shew their Church not in rumors and speeches of the men of Africa nor in the couÌ„cels of their Bishops nor in the discourses of any writer whatsoever nor in the signes and miracles that may be forged but in the prescript of the Law in the predictions of the Prophets in the verses of the Psalmes in the voyces of the Shepheard himselfe c. that all devised false and idolatrous worship is to be abhorred is confessed and professed by Conformists and Nonconformists It is a constant received position That nothing ought to be tolerated in the Church as necessary unto salvation or as an article of faith except it be expresly contained in the word of God or manifestly to be gathered therefrom and that all ceremonies are to be rejected wherein there is placed opinion of merit worship or necessitie to salvation But that the worship tendred to God in the English Congregations is devised false idolatrous that the Nonconformists never said nor thought and whosoever shall rashly affirme it he shall never be able to make proofe thereof by the word of God If any rite prescribed in the book of Common-prayer be worship in the use thereof the word being taken in a large signification that is not so in the intention and profession of the Church nor apprehended to be so in them that conforme unto it neither doth it defile the worship of God to them that joyne in the ordinances of grace notwithstanding the corruption which in their judgement is annexed to it and practised by some For notwithstanding such corruption or abuse the worship it selfe is that which God hath prescribed approved blessed to them that seeke his face aright and serve him unfeignedly whereat he requireth our presence and wherein he hath promised to sup with us and we with him That the Non-conformists should affirme the worship of God or ministery in the English Assemblies to be as false idolatrous and unlawfull as was the worship of Jeroboam at Dan and Bethel is a most lewd and impudent slander which the sworne shavelingâ— of Antichrist whose profession is to lye and slander for the catholique cause would blush to vent You know it is contrary to their judgement practice prosession and protestations many times renewed Whether the phrase be tolerable or no if you will be prodigall to pawne your head in this case take heed lest you loose it not in Gods cause but in your owne And if you shall be desperate herein your forwardnesse will move no wise man for Religion is to be learned from the truth of God and not from the high adventures of inconsiderate men The Non-conformists can prove the Religion and worship of the Church of England to be of God not by petty reasons and colourable shewes which they leave to them that maintaine a bad cause but by pregnant evidence from the word of truth not by similitudes allegories and forced interpretations of Scripture as you dispute against it but by plaine texts of Scripture and sound reason deduced therefrom against which the gates of hell shall never prevaile The Author of that Booke Bilson Christ subject part 4. p. 349. This is the doubt betwixt us whether we should coÌ„tent our selves with such meanes as he hath devised for us and coÌ„mended unto us thereby daily to renew the memory of our Redemption or else inveÌ„t others of our own heads fit perhaps to provoke us to a naturall and humane affection but not fit to instruct ourfaith c. He knowing that images though they did intertaine the eyes with some delight yet might they snare the souls of many simple silly persons and preferring the least seed of sound faith beholding adoring him in spirit truth before all the dumbe shewes and Imagerie that maÌ„s wit could furnish to win the eye Can. Neces of Separat c. 2. p. 78 79. 254. according to a prescript form culled out of the blasphemous Mass-book 238. That which was takeÌ„ out of the vile Masse-booke c. Sold. â—aâ—w T. C. repl 1. pag. 130. Abridg. p. 89. Adm. 1. p. 9. 2. Adm. p. 41. Fall of Babyl â—9 Altar Damasc pag. 612 613. Syons plea. 29. Perth Assemb 64. Syons plea. 30. pag. 40. 〈…〉 intituled The course of Conformitie sheweth that the Israelites might in generall pretend for Jeroboams calves the same excuses that were made in defence of some corruptions thrust upon the Church of Scotland but the corruptions he doth not make to be like nor the pretences to be of equall validitie nor the state of the Church where such corruptions are tollerated to be the same with the state of the Israelites who worshipped the Calves Abuses that agree in the generall nature of abuse may be coloured with the same pretences when they be not of the same weight qualitie or degree the one may be small the other hainous The same distinction may be brought to countenance the vilest heresie and a petty errour if I may so speake Heresie and Idolatry are both talkative and who doubts but corrupt wits can say much in defence of both shall we thence conclude that errour or heresie are both one every abuse is grosse idolatry The Author you quote was not so unadvised His drift was onely to shew the vanitie of such excuses and not to match the things pleaded for with Jeroboams Idolatry as hath been shewed before But let us see whether you can alledge any colourable shew or petty reason to prove our worship to be false and idolatrous The whole forme of the Church-service is borrowed from the Papists peiced and patched together without reason or order of edification yea not onely is the forme of it taken from the Church of Antichrist but surely the matter also For none can deny but it was culled and picked out of that popish dunghill the portius and vile mass-Masse-booke full of all abhominations From three Romish Channels I say was it raked together namely the Breviarie out of which the common prayers are taken out of the Rituall or booke of Rites the administration of the Sacraments Buriall Matrimony Visitation of the sick are taken and out of the mass-Masse-booke are the Consecration of the Lords Supper Collects Gospels and Epistles And for this cause it is that the Papists like so well of the English Masse for so King James used to call it and makes them say Surely the Romish is the true and
right Religion Else the Heretiques in England would never have received so much of it For some have avouched it to my face saith the Author of the Curtaine of Church-power that the service there is nothing to the Masse in the English others that it wants nothing but the Popes consecration These things thus retrived it was also thought that popish Kings and Princes would be the lesse offended what marvaile seeing the Jesuites themselves are so well pleased with the ceremonies and service that I heard one of them God is my witnesse herein make it his hope that the maintenance of them against the Puritans would make England the sooner returne to Rome in the rest Quâ—vadis sec 4. Mine eyes and eares saith Bishop Hall can witnesse with what approofe and applause divers of the catholique royall as they are termed entertained the new translated Liturgies of our Church Which is the lesse wonder seeing Pope Pius the fourth sending Vicentio Parpatia Cambd. An. 1560. Abbot of Saint Saviours to Queene Elizabeth offered to confirme the English Liturgie by his Authoritie if shee would yeeld to him in some other things Indeed it pleased them so well Fresh suit l. 1 203. that for the first eleven yeares of Queene Elizabeth Papists came to the English Church and service as the Lord Cooke sheweth L. Cooke de jure Regis Eccles f. 34. Syons plea. 49.91 Others of them affirme the same namely their Church-service pleaseth marveilous well the Romish Beast and his ungodly followers Witnesse the Pacification of the Devonshire-Papists in the time of King Edward the sixth when as they understood it was no other but the very Masse-booke put into English Witnesse also the assertion of Dr Carrier a dangerous seducing Papist The common-prayer-booke saith he and the Catechisme conteined in it hold no point of doctrine expresly contrary to Antiquitie that is Consider pag. 45. sect 8 9. as he explaineth himselfe the Romish-service onely hath not enough in it And for the doctrine of predestination Sacraments grace free-will and sin c. The new Catechismes and Sermons of the Puritan-preachers run wholly against the common-prayer and Catechisme therein conteined c. Motiv Preface to the Answ And thereupon he comforteth himselfe upon the hope of the supply of the rest To this effect speaketh Bristow and Harding If these things be right why not the rest It shall not be amisse to marke one occurrence in Queene Elizabeths time who being interdicted by the Popes Bull Secretary Walsingham tryed a tricke of State-policy to reverse the same He caused two of the Popes Intelligencers at the Popes appointment to be brought as it were in secret into England to whom he appointed a guide being a State Intelligencer who should shew them in Canterbury and London service solemnly sung and said with all their pomp and procession Which order the popish Intelligencers seeing and so much admiring they wondred that their Master would be so unadvised as to interdict a Prince or State whose service and ceremonies so symbolized with his owne So returning it the Pope they shewed him his oversight affirming that they saw no service ceremonies or Church-order's in England but they might have very well beene performed in Rome whereupon the Bull was presently called in That which you alledge against the English-Service-booke in particular Answer you intend against all set-formes of prayer or stinted Liturgies whatsoever For the use of them is a false devised idolatrous antichristian worship in your account Thus you know your Brethren of the Separation have disallowed all set and stinted formes Johnson Ainsworth Robinson Greenewood c. as humane inventions forbidden in the second Commandement Images Will-worship Idol-prayers False-worship Lip-labour c. And you your selfe insist upon this principle of the Nonconformists as the cause of Separation from the Church of England that all formes of worship not prescribed of God are will-worship which if it maketh against one holdeth against all prescribed Liturgies Can. Neces of Separat pag. 114. Id. pag. 115. Againe you confesse that every Church is not to be forsaken or left which hath something in it by participation idolatrous And therefore our Service is not devised worship because it is taken out of the mass-Masse-booke as you alledge but simply because it is devised whencesoever it had its originall if it be devised worship First therefore we must consider the matter in generall Oylsâ—hil speaking of Images brought into the Church saith Wee might justly condemn the whole faithlesse fond invention For it was but a will-worship a naughtie service having no ground of the Word of God and onely spring of errour Calf Preface to the Reader testifieth Bilson Christ subject part 2. p. 297. That Princes may prescribe what faith they list what service of God they please what forme of administration of the Sacraments they thinke best is no part of our thought or point of our doctrine yet that Princes may by their lawes prescribe the right faith to bee preached the right service of God in spirit and truth to be used c. T. C. repl 1. pag. 8. Park of the Crosse par 1. ca. 4. sect 7. pag. 177. A. W. ans to late popish Artic. p. 73. and then try what is alledged against our booke of Common-prayer These words Formes of worship may be taken two wayes First to note the substantiall parts or meanes of worship and in this sense it is most true That all formes of worship not prescribed of God are unlawfull and false worship because devised by men Secondly To note a bare order methode or phrase wherein divine Service is performed And in this sense the Nonconformists never said That all formes of worship not prescribed are false or devised worship For they know that no forme is determined and prescribed of God precisely in all parts of his worship and where none is set apart by his Majestie it is a breach of his Commandement and devised worship to place an opinion of worship in the simple order or phrase of speech used in prayer or administration of holy things The Nonconformists condemne not a Liturgie or stinted forme of prayer but desire that all things therein might be ordered as doth tend most to edification Whatsoever exceptions they have taken against our Booke of Common-prayer they never disliked the use of it so far as they judged it sound and good They doe not condemne it wholly but finde fault with it as in some points disagreeing with the word of God What hath beene their seeking from time to time a razing of the Communion Booke No but a purging and filing of it after the patterne of that care which former examples set us The Booke of Common-prayer they condemne not as a wicked and ungodly Booke much lesse the Service as false devised and idolatrous but they have and doe use the booke and professe their readinesse so to doe onely they desire to
be excused in some things which they judge to be amisse In the admonition presented to the Parliament An. 1570. thus they professe We have at all â—imes born with that which we have could not amend in this Booke and have used the same in our Ministry so farre forth as we might reverencing those times and those persons in which and by whom it was first authorised Though therefore they write Admonit 1. pag. 9. Park of the Crosse part 1. ca. 3. sect 6. pag. 135. that it was taken out of that Popish dunghill the portius and vile Masse-booke that the Papists sucke no little advantage out of our Commumon-Booke which they terme an English translation out of the Masse-booke and out of the difficulty whereby it came in Parsons of the 3. conversions of England pag. 2. many Protestants themselves adjudging that the stable of popish superstition was not throughly purged out of it that Bristow draws the likenesse of our Service-booke to the countenancing of their Masse-booke Brist motiv 34. Rhem. in Iohn 20. sect 5. And the Rhemists the absolution of the sicke prescribed in our Communion-booke to an approbation of their absolution Auricular confession and Sacrament of pennance Howsoever they disallow the service as it is practised in visitations and injoyned in the late Canons which denieth libertie not onely to omit a ceremony but also to adde alter Park of the Crosse par 2. ca. 5. sect 11. pag. 19. or omit any one word of the whole Liturgie when we affirme the words of the Lords prayer and the forme in Baptisme and the Supper may be altered without fault Though in these things they take exception against the Booke and the manner of urging it yet they never disliked the use of it altogether much lesse condemned it as a false devised and idolatrous worship Their profession and practice from time to time both before and since the Controversies were moved about the Booke speake plainly in this matter Can. Neces of Separat pag. 125. Judge then your selfe whether it be not a notorious calumny in you to write That our stinted service devised by the Bishop and translated from the Masse is affirmed by our owne Writers to be a false and forged worship and that it is even so I appeale to many of your consciences For why doe you loath to use the same in your Families but because you know it is not the incense made by fire from the Altar of the Lord. Is it a small thing thus to slander and reproach the servants of Christ contrary to their writings professions and practices and your owne Conscience And what a vaine surmise is this that because they forbeare to use it in their houses therefore in conscience they know it to be strange incense As if many things might not be forborne which in themselves are lawfull In reading the Scriptures a Christian may use one translation when he doth not condemne others as abhomination I may presume in private you make not use of the Lords prayer and so of some others and yet you would not that another should fit in your conscience and judge that you know it is not the incense made by fire from the Altar of the Lord Or if you be so presumptuous sober and well advised men will admit no such conclusions But here you must remember againe that no methode order or phrase of speech in prayer left undetermined of God can truely be called or esteemed the incense made by fire Prayer it selfe and not the phrase of speech whether devised by another or by our selves is resembled thereby But the whole forme you say of the english-church-service-English-Church-service-Book is borrowed out of the masse-Masse-Book picked and culled out of the Dunghill as the Nonconformists write You adde That not onely the forme but the matter also was taken out of the mass-Masse-Booke It is true the Nonconformists say it was in great part picked and culled out of the Masse-booke but it followeth not thence that either it is or was esteemed by them a devised or false worship for many things conteined in the Masse-booke it selfe are good and holy A Pearle may be found upon a Dunghill we cannot more credit the man of sinne than to say that every thing in the Masse-booke is devilish and Antichristian For then it should be Antichristian to pray unto God in the mediation of Jesus Christ to read the Scriptures to professe many fundamentall divine truths necessary to salvation If any have misliked the Booke because it hath too much likelihood to the Masse-booke that hath not beene the judgement of the Nonconformists alone others have said and written as much who never yet condemned the use of the Booke or all things therein conteined Popery is a scab or leprosie which cleaveth unto the Church It standeth mostly in erroneous faultie grosse and abhominable superstructions upon the true foundation whereby they poyson or overthrow the foundation it selfe But take away the superstructions and the foundation remaineth remove the leprosie and the man is sound Many supernaturall divine truths of God are mixed in the Popish Synagogue as pure gold with much drosse or earth which the refiner is to purge and separate but not to cast away Our service was picked and culled out of the Masse-booke you say and so it might and yet be free from 〈…〉 and tincture from all shew and appearance of evill though the Masse-booke it selfe was fraught with all manner of abhominations For if Antichrist fit in the Temple of God and professe himselfe the servant of Jesus Christ of necessitie some treasures riches and jewels of the Church must be gathered into his den which being collected purged and refined might serve to adorne the chaste spouse of Christ Neither in so doing doth the Church honour Antichrist but challenge her owne right If shee retaine ought that belongeth to Antichrist that is her staine and blemish but the recovery of that which Christ the King and Bridegroome of his Church hath given as her wealth or ornament must not be imputed a fault Christs Religion is not so needie or unperfect of it selfe so needy and beggarly that it must borrow Embring dayes of the Heathen Altars of the Pope William Salisbur in his Battery of the Popes Batter An. 1550. or Vestments of the Jewes But as the Church is plentifully furnished by Christ and needeth supply from none other so it is her part to retaine what is freely and graciously vouchsafed of him If it be wholly taken out of the mass-Masse-booke Bilson Christ Subject part 4. p. 490. Eating and drinking are not essentiall parts of the Sacrament but of the Supper they are or of the Lords institution For Christs institutioÌ„ conteineth as well the use as the matter or forme that must be used A Supper is not onely the meat provided but also the act of eating that which is provided And so the Lords institution implyeth the use and action as well as
the word and elements Bilson Christ subject part 4. p. 356. To the Papists objecting that as Magistrates Parents have part of Gods externall honour because they present his person in judging and blessing so many Images have part of his externall though not of his internall honour Answer is truly returned It is not in your hands to make allowance of Gods honour to whom you list and againe God himselfe hath made a plaine prohibition in this case that Images shall have no part of his externall honour The words are as cleare as day light Thou shalt no bow downe to them Tho Beacon Catech in his workes in fol. printed at London Ann. 1562. f. 484. Fox in Osor lib. 3. pag. 27. The Booke of Common-prayer before the Communion Cypr. Ep. 63. ad Caecisiâ—m Justin Martyr in Apol. 2 Iren. lib. 4. cap. 34 lib. 5. cap. 4. Gratian. Decret part 3. de Conseâ—r dist 2. cap. 10.12 18.36 Durand rational divin offic lib. 4. cap. 5â— how comes it to have those things which are so directly contrary to the Masse that both cannot possibly stand together In our booke of Common-prayer we pray to God onely in the mediation of Jesus Christ and in a knowne language We professe that Christ by one oblation of himselfe once for all hath made a full perfect and sufficient satisfaction for the sinnes of the whole world that he hath commanded a perpetuall remembrance of his death and passion in that his ordinance of the Supper and that the Sacrament is to be administred in both kinds the Minister and the people communicating together were these things taken out of the Masse-booke The Church of Rome joyneth the two first Commandements in one or taketh away the second thereby to cloake their Idolatry in the worshipping of Images But the common-prayer-booke of the Church of England divideth them into two therein following two of the Fathers at most excepted all Antiquitie and fetteth downe the words of the second Commandement at large The Church of Rome teacheth that in the Sacrament of the Eucharist the body and bloud of Christ is received and eaten carnally that as much is received in one kinde as in both and that in the Masse Christ is offered 〈…〉 a propitiatory unblouddy Sacrifice for the sinnes of 〈◊〉 and dead But the common-prayer-booke of the Church of England in the forme of administring that Sacrament teacheth expresly That spiritually by faith wee feed on him in our hearts eating and drinking in remembrance that Christ dyed and shed his bloud for us In the Masse the Priest receiveth alone the people standing by gazing on but the Minister and people are appointed with us to communicate together according to the institution of Christ and practice of the primitive Church We make the communion of the Eucharist properly a Sacrament They a Sacrament and a Sacrifice propitiatory They celebrate at an Altar wee at a Table according to the example of our Saviour Christ his Apostles and the primitive Church in the purest times Wee pray for the living They for the living and dead And if these be not points directly and expresly contrary to the Romane service Rome is much departed from her selfe Carriers pretence in that particular is a meere jugling trick that he might insinuate a change of Religion might be made among us without any great alteration which is as likely as the light should be turned into darknesse and not espied If many points of Popery be not condemned expresly in the Catechisme or Service-booke which are for the instruction of the simple in the grounds of Religion and the administration of the holy things of God and not to shew what is condemned in Religion yet so many points are there taught directly coÌ„trary to the foundation of Popery that it is not possible Popery should stand if they take place And whereas Antichristianisme standeth in ungodly superstructions and additions to the truth and worship of God both matter and object if the Catechisme and Service-booke have not enough in them in his sense of necessitie they contradict the whole bulke of Popery which confisteth in abhominable superfluities or impious inventions of their owne It is mone proper to say the Masse was added to our common-prayer than that our common-prayer was taken out of the Masse-booke For most things in our common-prayer were to be found in the Liturgies of the Church long before the Masse whereof wee speake was heard of in the world And the Masse was patched up by degrees and added to the Liturgie of the Church now one peice then another so that the ancient truths and holy Liturgies were at last stained with the Idoll of the Masse Bishop Jewel Ser. on Josh 6.1 2 3. The things that may bee reserved viz. in the destruction of Hiericho must not bee dust or chasse or hay or stubble But gold silver iron and brasse I meane they may not be things meet to furnish maintaine superstition but such things as be strong and may serve either directly to serve God or els for comelinesse and good order which was sacrilegiously thrust into them But the prayers and truths of God taught in that Booke pertained to the Church as her prerogative the Masse and the abhominations thereof belonged into the man of sinne And if a true man may challenge his goods which the theese hath drawne into his denne the Church of God may lawfully make claime unto those holy things which Antichrist hath unjustly usurped That answer which is returned to the accusation makes against them that sue for discipline viz. That a great part of their discipline is borrowed from the Anabaptists will serve as a buckler in this case And it is this which I doubt not you will approve Whatsoever is proper either to the heresie of Papists and Anabaptists Donatists or Puritanes that wee utterly condemne to the pit of hell But if amongst the filth of their heresies there may be found any good thing as it were a graine of good corne in a great deale of Darnell that we willingly receive not as theirs but as the Jewes did the holy Arke from the Philistins T. C. repl 2. par 1. Epistle to the Chh of England whereof they were unjust owners For herein that is true that is said The sheepe must not lay downe her fell because shee seeth the Wolfe sometimes cloathed with it August lib. 2. Serm. de Monte yea it may come to passe that the Synagogue of Satan may have some one thing at one time with more convenience than the true and catholique Church of Christ Bishop Jewel Ser. in Iosh 6.1.2.3 In religion no part is to be called little A haire is but little yet it hath a shadow If our Booke please the Papists it is but in some things wherein in reverence to Antiquitie we come too nigh them in some rites and ceremonies but with the substance of the ministration it selfe they cannot be pleased unlesse they be
5. ca. 21. weighed and not numbred and that the errours of all these sorts are in specie much more dangerous and pernicious though not so many If you can prove any one errour in specie hereticall to be taught in those Bookes according to the true meaning and intent of the Bookes then I will consent unto you that he which administers in all things according unto them is not a true Minister of Jesus Christ But if that cannot be done and I presume you will hardly be drawne to attempt it in all your raging termes and reproachfull taunts cast upon our worship Church and Ministery you doe but foame out your owne shame The true Ministers of Christ may erre in many things else it will hardly be found that there is any true Minister and therefore to prove a Minister to be a false Prophet it sufficeth not to say he s Cypr. li. 2. Ep. 3. If any of our predecessors either ignotantly or simply did not observe keepe that which the Lord by his example and authoritie willed his simplicitie may be pardoned by the goodnesse of God Aug. Ep. 48. This blemish in his most beautifull breast hee covered with the teares of charitie August de Baptis l. 4. cap. 5. Ignosci potest simpliciter erranti erreth in many things but wee must shew the errours for qualitie to be such as cannot be in a true or lawfull Prophet of the Lord And here I would aske you this one Question Whether there was any true Ministery in the Christian Churches within the space of the fourth fift or fixt ages after Christ If not what is then become of the promises of God made to the Churches of the New Testament If yes whether was not their course of administration polluted with as many or more dangerous errours than can truely be named in all the Bookes forementioned And so expecting your resolution of this one demand I proceed to your third ground of Separation drawne as you say from the Nonconformists Principles CHAP. III. SECT I. IF the publique Assemblies of England have not the power of the censures Can. Neces of Separat p. 149 150. and excommunication but stand under a government which came wholly and every part from the Devill and Antichrist then is their condition naught then are they false and Antichristian Churches The reason is because this power is of absolute necessitie for the Churches of Christ an essentiall propertie thereof and serve not onely for their well-being but the being it selfe for without this there can be no coupling of the parts and members together And so much t De consc lib. 4. cap. 24. pag. 214. Dr Ames testifieth Now the Assemblies of England were not gathered by any such power but in their first constitution wanted the same and had this false power which is exercised at this day as the Nonconformists doe acknowledge Our arguments which we have used in this point have been to this effect Every true visible Church hath a power immediately under Christ to execute Church-government But the publique Congregations of England have not any such power under Christ to execute Church-government Therefore they are not true visible Churches What they will say to this I know not but hitherto they have been silent or answered to no purpose in the world For it is usually their manner to tell us how the Churches in Corinth Pergamus Thyatira c. neglected to execute discipline as though there were no difference betwixt omitting to administer the ordinance and the want wholly of it yea and to have an Antichristian and devilish in the roome of it ANSVVER YOu undertooke to prove the necessitie of Separation from the Nonconformists Principles But here you reject their Principles with disdaine and build your responsive conclusions as you call them upon your own foundation which you know doth not accord with their Principles The Nonconformists hold discipline necessary to the well-being of a Church the safety of Religion the preservation of Gods ordinances from contempt They compare it to the u Bilson perpet ch gov ca. 1. Since the Church of Christ is the house of God the Citie of the living GOD and the kingdome of his welbeloved Sonne Shall we thinke that God is carefull for others carelesse for his own or that confusion ought to be lesse doubted and feared in heavenly than in earthly things wall of a Citie hedge of a Vineyard fence of a Garden and bounds of an Orchard but never said it to be of absolute w Jewel Serm. on Iosh 6.1 2 3. Discipline is so needfull that neither without it shall ye be able thoroughly to discomfort those that seeke to build up Jericho c. necessitie that there could be no Citie Vineyard Garden or Orchard without it But this in your judgement is broken-stuffe not worthy any answer For where doe they read say x Can. Neces of Separat pag. 151. you in Scripture that this power which Christ hath given to his Church is compared to a wall or hedge c. But rather it may be likened to the power of the body which receiveth food and thereby excrements are purged and avoided the want whereof were in nature prodigious neither could the body possibly subsist and live In the same page you take up Dr Laiton roundly after your manner for saying that the y Cypr. lib. 1. ep 10. Concil Carthag 3. ca. 35. Gratian. decr p. 3. dist 2. cap. 95 96. Bils Christ subject part 2. pa. 335. I do not mislike that malefactors of all kinds not only drūkards railers perjurers adulterers usurers and such like but also theeves robbers ravishers murderers plagiaries incendiaries traytors and all other hainous offenders when their lives be spared by Princes should be driven to earnest and open repentance before they be received into the Church or admitted to the divine mysteries yea rather I thinke it very needfull in a Christian Common-wealth that God be pleased and the Church preserved from all communion with these monstrous impieties c. want of an integrall part of the whole is no sufficient ground of Separation He speakes you say as a man most ignorant of the nature of Church-power for were he able truly to define it he should see that it is of such necessitie as a people cannot constitute themselves in the right order of the Gospell without it as we have before expressed Expressed it may be but not proved by Scripture or reason drawne from Scripture How palpably you abuse Dr Ames testimony is shewed before and it makes as plainly against your reason as a thing can be spoken But that is broken-stuffe which pleaseth you not and he is ignorant that applauds not your dictates To be taunted and reviled is answer sufficient to be given to us simple poore ignorants who know not truely to define what Church-power is But whether this stuffe be broken or the Nonconformists ignorant what Church-power is or
maintained Fourthly In the true Church of Christ the true doctrine of Jesus Christ the Prophets and Apostles in matters fundamentall is kept but so as the living members may erre both in doctrine and manners and others in societie with them may erre grossely impenitently finally And thus the Church of England doth keepe the doctrine of w Chaloner Credo Sanct. 2 part subject The church in respect of its outward part as it enters the Creed is not onely an outward profession of a doctrine or discipline but a profession of the same under the notion of truth And that the Church in this sense is invisible Gregory de Valent. confes in his third Tom. upō Thomas disp 1 qu. 1. pag. 7. sect 16. and Bellarm in his third Book de Eccles ca. 15. Bilson Christ subject par 3. pag. 305. The visible Church consisting of good and bad elect reprobate hath no such promise but shee may erre only the chosen of christ which are the true members of his body properly called his Church they shall not erre unto perdition c. Christ the Prophets and Apostles intirely without addition or alteration though in the government and administration there be many things amisse though in the societie there be many who be not qualified as sheepe humble and meeke but fierce and cruell Fifthly No societie is the Church of Christ which retaineth not the true worship of God but in the true Church of God his pure worship may be stained with rites and ceremonies which might well be spared and are justly disliked Thus both Conformists and Nonconformists and all other sorts and sects of men And thus in the Church of England the true worship of God is for substance rightly maintained though the Nonconformists dislike and the Conformists groane under some ceremonies not abandoned The onely knot here to be unloosed againe is your slander against the Nonconformists in that you charge them to say that the Church of England doth not retaine the true worship of God And now I shall desire you calmely to consider how according to your principles you can untie a knot or two if they should be knit for you in this wise First He is no true Pastor of Jesus Christ who grossely perverteth the Scripture falsifieth Authors deceiveth with aequivocations condemneth the true worship of God as pernicious idolatrie and the x Jewell upon the first to the Thes chap. 1. v. 1. The Church of God is in God the Father and in the Lord Iesus Christ it is the company of the faithfull whom God hath gathered together in Christ by his Word and by the holy Ghost to honour him as he himselfe hath appointed This Church heareth the voyce of the Shepheard It will not follow a stranger but flyeth from him Of this Church Hieron in Mic. lib. 1. cap. 1. saith Ecclesia Christi in toto orbe Ecclesias possidens c. societies of Saints as idolatrous and Antichristian Assemblies and laboureth to draw Christians from the communion of Saints which ought to be kept and maintained Examine your writings in the feare of God and adde the proposition wanting Secondly He is no true Minister who derives his authoritie from them that are not able to give it But he that derives his authoritie from the people derives it from them that have no authoritie to give it You know the conclusion and where it will light Thirdly The true Church of God is the true flock of Christ the Kings Daughter quickened by the Spirit married unto Christ gentle meeke humble retaining the true worship of God without addition or alteration and keeping the unitie of the Spirit in the bond of peace But the societie of Separatists is not the true flocke of Christ quickned by the Spirit humble meeke gentle keeping the unitie of the Spirit in the bond of peace These properties doe not agree to all and every one in that societie in truth according as in the former propositions you say they belong to the true Church of God If you shall be able to maintaine the former propositions against men as you vaunt I doe not beleeve you shall be able to unloose these few knots CHAP. V. SECT I. IT may be some will expect that I should write something of their Lecturers Can. Neces of Separat pag. 49 50. and the rather because they in the judgement of many are thought to be the best Ministers Of their life and doctrine I say nothing But as for their Ministery surely it is new and strange For the Originall of their name manner of entrance and Administration is unknowne wholly to the Scriptures and I thinke never before heard of till in these latter broken and confused times Therefore it is no marvell when the Question hath beene propounded to some of them as it was by the Pharisees to John Who art thou That they have not been able for their life to answer to answer the point Neither could agree among themselves what kinde of Ministery it is that they have taken up And being hard pressed for resolution they have ingenuously confessed that unlesse they be Evangelists they could not see how their Ministery doth accord with any Ministery mentioned in the New Testament This I write upon my owne certain knowledge the persons I thinke are yet living whose names for some reason I forbeare to expresse Howbeit I can and will doe it if I see there be a just and necessary occasion I doe not thinke it strange that they should thus speake for indeed I know not what they can say better in defence of their standing Pastours I am sure they will not say they are For First They doe not take any particular charge of a flocke upon them Secondly They performe not the office thereof for they agree with the people onely to preach and not to administer either the seales or censures to them Thirdly Their comming unto the people is in a strange sort for they make a covenant each with other for some certaine yeares and when that time is out both parties are free and so may leave one the other and doe many times but a true Pastour may not doe so For if he should he were worse than an hireling which leaves not the sheepe till he see the Wolfe comming But many of these when they see a richer Lectureship comming towards them Fourthly He that is a Parson or Vicar is taken generally for the Minister of the place And truely howsoever their calling be false and Anttchristian as the Nonconformists say yet in many respects they doe better resemble a true Minister than any Lecturer whatsoever Therefore not without just cause Neces of Discipl pag. 74. doe the Reformists utterly condemne this extraordinary office of Preachers And affirme that they are neither Pastours nor Teachers which the Scripture alloweth of ANSVVER THis point concerning Lecturers I have purposely deferred unto this place because it is distinct from the former in your apprehension
AN ANSWER TO TWO TREATISES Of Mr. IOHN CAN THE Leader of the English Brownists in Amsterdam The former called A Necessitie of Separation from the Church of ENGLAND proved by the Nonconformists Principles The other A Stay against Straying Wherein in opposition to M. Iohn Robinson he undertakes to prove the unlawfulnesse of hearing the Ministers of the Church of England Very seasonable for the present times By the late learned laborious and faithfull servant of Jesus Christ JOHN BALL He that is first in his owne cause seemeth just but his neighbour commeth and searcheth him Prov. 18.17 Prove all things hold fast that which is good 1 Thes 5.21 LONDON Printed by R. B. and are to be sold by John Burroughes at his Shop at the signe of the Golden Dragon neere the Inner Temple gate in Fleetstreet 1642. TO The Christian READER Sound Knowledge and love of the Truth together with inward peace and Spirituall joy through Communion with Christ in the Ordinances of the Gospell Christian READER THis ensuing discourse was prepared for the Presse by the Reverend Author and committed to one of us that it might be made publike of which we will say nothing but shall freely venture it to stand or fall by the award of an impartiall judgement Neither shall wee present thee with the Authors deserved praises seeing his rare pietie and great learning were sufficiently knowne to very many of various rankes who were well acquainted with him and his workes already Printed have given a competent proofe hereof unto all others who have 〈◊〉 them without prejudice and partialitie Only by occasion of publishing this piece wee â—â—we leave to cleare him from such aspersions as by 〈◊〉 have causlesly beene cast upon him and by others too much and too easily believed against him a thing incident to men most eminent and innocent as instances in all Ages will evince not only to the blemishing of his just estimation but also as we conceive to the prejudice of the truth it selfe and in favour of many spreading errours and exorbitances Those aspersions which wee shall endeavour to take off are two which though they openly contradict each other yet they unhappily agree to defame our worthy friend whose credit wee judge our selves many wayes bound to vindicate and preserve The one intimating some degree of declining from his former inconformitie in deserting the Nonconformists cause and grounds being too much inclined to favour the times in our Ceremonies and Service book The other expressing his advancing beyond the wonted limets of a Nonconformist towards the cause and course of separation Two things are pretended to confirme the former 1. A passage in the Preface of his Book called A friendly tryall of the grounds tending to separation c. pag. 3. his words are these Many are the objections which are made against set formes of Prayer and particularly against our booke of Common Prayer All which I have endeavoured to answer severally not because they are of so great weight but because I desired fully to satisfie every doubt c. Secondly that in the whole frame of the same booke he speakes more covertly and coldly against the corruptions of our Church than became a man who continued stedfast in the wayes of Nonconformity For Answer whereunto we affirme in the Generall That upon our knowledge he lived and dyed a strict forbearer and firme opposer of all such corruptions as the Nonconformists heretofore so usually called had commonly by their publike writings disallowed Nor have wee knowne any man in that kinde more precise uniforme and constant to his opinion in discourse prayers and practices yet alwayes carried on with Christian moderation and meekenesse which graces are of singular use in controversies of this nature yea some of us can witnesse his purpose if God had lent him longer life by a set Treatise to have shewed himselfe a plaintiffe for the Nonconformists against the corruptions in our Church as in this hee appeares their defendant against the Calumnies of Master Can. These testimonies may satisfie the sober minded that he continued cordial to their cause whereunto more might be added but wee desire not to revive the remembrance of these differences among deare brethren Because wee pray and hope that through Gods mercy by meanes of our Gracious Sovereigne and of the present Parliament they will in such sort be buried that they shall arise no more to our disturbance and discomfort More particularly to the passage objected out of the forecited Preface we Answer That the words themselvs doe not necessarily imply any such sense but they may admit yea they will carry a better construction if the Reader will be candid and well advised For he saith not that he hath answered the objections as suggesting little or nothing blameworthy in our Liturgie but because they are not of so great weight as to inforce the unlawfulnesse of those set formes or warrant a separation from our Churches and publike worship in regard thereof All which both the title of the Booke and the tenour of the whole discourse therein together with this Treatise exhibited will sufficiently cleare unto the indifferent and attentive Reader And that this was his meaning some of us can testifie from his owne mouth which also he would have manifested to the world if God had lengthened his life either in an Epistle annexed to this worke now brought into the open light or some other way as might have been judged most convenient But you will say Object The other ground of this imputation is more pregnant for why did he not speake out against the corruptions of the times as others did Nay why did he seek to cleaâ— the book of Common Prayer of some things charged upon it Two things we conceive may fully take off the strength of this objection Answ 1. Because it was impertinent here to aggravate or multiply corruptions objected but rather to shew that as in some things the booke by them was overcharged so notwithstanding all that could be alledged against it yet separation from our worship could not be lawfull much lesse necessarie 2 The state of those times wherein this piece was penned would not brooke more plainnesse in that and such like points this we could if it were expedient aboundantly evidence by declaring with what difficultie it passed the Presse what exceptions were taken at some harmelesse expressions and what amendments were exacted in some phrases which seemed somewhat openly to hint the Authors heart-workings towards that Reformation which in these times is much desired and endeavoured The second imputation remaines to be removed viz. that though our Reverend Author had both reasoned and written against the opinions and practice of separation in the time of his health yet on his death bed he did retract and with griefe repent what in that kinde he had done This is commonly reported confidently believed and gladly embraced not only here at home but also in forreigne parts even in
America as by divers letters and other wayes some of us have beene informed It is high time therefore to give open check unto these groundles rumours lest the cause here maintained should thereby suffer prejudice either in the mindes of them who are friends or of those who be adversaries thereunto And for this end we intreat the Reader first to consider that this imputation being directly contrary to the former either they must confute each other or else argue the man strangely light in wheeling from one extreame unto another or guilty of a fowler fault in writing one thing and thinking another from both which charges we assure our selves his great soliditie in judgement and pietie in practice will fully absolve him in the consciences of all such who were acquainted with him And as for others we hope they may bee aboundantly satisfied by the ensuing evidence First in that foure or five dayes before his death he expressed to some of us his willingnesse to have this Treatise presented to publike view which hee had composed since the former Secondly so soone as he had finished this book he undertooke a large Treatise of the Church wherein he intended to discover the nature of Schisme and to deale in the main controversies touching the essence and government of the visible Church Concerning these matters we have almost fifty sheets of Paper written with his owne hand wherein many passages expresle his continued dislike of the separations both then and now in practice And these writings together with his other papers he on his death bed committed to the care of some of us to be disposed of for private or publike use as we should judge expedient Had there beene any griefe upon his Spirit or alteration in his judgement in reference to what he had spoken or printed against the separation we know none so likely to have beene acquainted therewith as our selves For one of us dwelling neare unto him was for many years his bosome companion and in his last sicknesse seldome from him Another being requested during his weaknesse to supply his place so journing in the same towne was daily with him The other three of us being his familiar friends did all visit him within one two or three dayes before his end We are all of us as we hope though most unworthy the Ministers of Iesus Christ who desire to be faithful And we doe each for our selves seriously protest in the presence of Almighty God that we never heard any syllable from him sounding that way Yea there is one thing more to be added which may for ever silence all gainesayers viz. That one of us through Gods good providence suspecting what hath since fallen out and being desirous to prevent such false rumours within lesse than two dayes before his death and not many houres before he was speechlesse asked him to this effect Whether he had any remorse or disquiet in his minde for any thing hee had written in opposition to the way of Separation whereto he thus answered I thanke God I have not any but I rather take comfort in what I have done and could have desired if it had beene the will of God to have lived a while longer to have given further assistance in that worke And this question was propounded to him and the Answer returned by him not only in the audience of some other of us but also of sundry other godly friends who can attest the truth of this relation Lastly We boldly challenge any person to come forth and to make proofe either by word or writing that this our Reverend Brother either repented his paines or changed his judgement against the way of separation which if he shall accordingly doe then will we be content to undergoe the severest censures that are due unto unjust suppressors of the truth But if any failing herein shall hereafter persist to promote either by scattering or crediting the forenamed reports wee leave them to the judgement of all indifferent men whether they deserve not to be accounted defamers of the dead and lyars against the truth if not subtile promoters of their owne cause and course by pretending falsly the Patronage of their Adversary when they could not stand before his Arguments But in probabilitie some will thus reply to our Apologie That if your friend did not retract the more was his sin and the lesse his honour Unto whom we returne this answer That this censure strongly presumes his former discourse in the maine matter to be erroneous and unjustifiable whereas that is the thing still in question and as we verily believe cannot be solidly proved And though our Reverend Brother be dead whom God had extraordinarily fitted for disputes of this nature yet we doubt not but the living Lord wil raise up for himself some other instruments to maintain the truth which he had undertaken There is one thing more Christian Reader which we desire thee to take notice of viz. That whereas it is often reported that this Authors former booke was fully answered before it passed the Presse and that therefore further answer thereâ—o cannot bee expected wee shall relate the truth for thy satisfaction in that particular Our worthy Brother having by Conference as some of us and others know with unshaken strength defended the lawfulnes of set formes of Prayer he was afterwards by a Leâ—ter sent from a worthy Gentleman M. Richard Knightly requested to state that question then much in agitation and to give in some arguments for his personall setling Hereupon in the space of one day the Messenger staying for an answer to the letter he did set down his judgment with some grounds thereof and sent them unto his much honoured friend from whom a copie being procured and conveyed into New England it seems an Answer was undertaken by a reverend brother there In the meane time the number of them increasing who withdrew themselves from our Church Assemblies because of the Liturgie there used he was importuned both by Ministers and others from divers parts of this Kingdome to take some further paines in that Controversie This occasioned the perusall of his former papers and the examining of those Arguments which he met withall either in Printed bookes Manuscrip s or the Rela ion on of friends against the use of set forms of prayer in generall and of our Common prayer booke particularly And thus the Embrio biggened and being ready to be brought forth into the light an answer unto the first conceptions came to the Authors hand wherein was nothing materiall as he conceived but what was answered in the bookâ— then about to be licenced yet by reason of some exceptions in another frame suggested he judged it sufcient to annex a few marginall notes unto his booke as thou mayest observe page 13.15.24.33 c. being unwilling in a more open way to reply upon the private answer of him whom he highly prized and intending if God had spared life to have returned more
in ordinatione hujusmodi personarum sit praetermissus ac violatus sicut perspicue apparet Denique Senatui Ecclesiastico populo Christiano jus omne suum atque suffragium misere sit hac ratione in hoc genere vocationum ecclesiasticarum ademptum in unum quendam Episcopum magnâ tyrannide atque abusu translatum Dominus Deus talibus corruptionibus quae adhuc in Ecclesiis ipsius supersunt defenduntur mederi magna sua misericordia dignetur velit quae tandem certè magnam ecclesiae Dei ruinam secum trahent ipsum sacrosanctum verbi ministerium reddent efficientque vel mercenarium vel omnino contemptibile abjectum Quod Dominus avertat Vna modo Quaestio superest in hoc argumento Nimirum quid de corum administratione sit sentiendum qui non sunt legitime vocati atque utrum iis sana conscientia adhaerere debeamus In quâ certe distinguendum est Aut enim est omnine illegitima vocatio ejus qui ecclesiam aliquam administrat vel non est omnino illegitima sed tantum ex parte Illegitima omnino est ea in qua omnia Dei verbo praescripta sunt praetermissa vel violata ut si quis seipsum intruserit privatâ authoritate Non omnino sed tantum ex parte illegitima est ea in quâ tantum quaedam ex illis non observata fuerunt sed praetermissa T.C. to his Sister An. Stubs This is the stone that you often or rather alwayes stumble at That if there be any thing wanting in the Church which the Lord hath required that in stead you should thereof conclude that the Church is with us imperfect you conclude it is no Church at all Whereas in the constitution of a mans body some parts are required to the being of a man as the Head heart c. and some to comelinesse as hands c. So it is in the body of a Church some things are required to the being of a Church and other things to the beauty and perfection of it If it be not of the being of a Church alwayes to have a Ministerie much lesse is it of the being of the Church alwayes to have the free choice thereof Ergo cujus omnino illegitima vocatio est is certè pro privato habendus est ac hujusmodi vocatio pro nulla Itaque neque sacramenta conferrè potest neque reliqua negotia ecclesiae gerere quae gessit pro nullis habentur nisi fortasse esset extraordinaria ejus vocatio id est quae signis testimoniisque certis a Deo confirmata esset Solaenim propagati Evangelii fructus qui inde multus emergit consideratio non confirmat hujusmodi omnino illegitimam vocationem utique neque faetus enatus illegitimam copulam quae intercessit inter adulteros Vitium autem illud tolli potest si postea ordine legitime vocetur is qui primum illegitime in Ministerio versabatur Qui autem ex partetantum illegitime est electus vocatus veluti si per Simoniam quis munus adeptus est non legitimo populi vel Senatus ecclesiastici consensu consensu tamen gradum obtinet non est habenda pro omnino nulla hujusmodi vocatio sed vitium illud est corrigendum Itaque isti Sacramenta conferre possunt quia utcunque non omnino veram satis legitimam vocationeÌ„ habeant habent tamen aliquam Sic Scribae Pharisaei in cathedra Mosis sedebant Sic Caiaphas in Pontificatu summo crat quem pretio redemerat Itaque exemplo Apostolorum Christi ipsius qui eos monuit reprehendit non autem secessionem a corpore Ecclesiae fecit ab iis nos segregare in alium caetum non debemus nec a toto Ecclesiae corpore Jd enim esset Donatistarum haeresin revocare sed pacem Ecclesiae quantum in nobis est colere nos oportet etsi illud vitium quod in eorum personis electione inhaeret damnare oportet quantum possumus tum emendare tum etiam emendatum velle Hac ratione fit ut etiam a sacrificulis Papisticis collatus Baptismus non sit in Ecclesia Dei repetendus pro nullo habendus Etsi enim in Ecclesiae Dei illegitimam vocationem Papistici Sacrificuli habent tamen ex consensu populi habent aliquam Est autem aliud ut ait August August contr Parmenian l. c. 13. aliquid prorsus non habere aliud auteÌ„ aliquid perniciosè habere aliud auteÌ„ aliquid salubriter habere Quod tertium solum nobis eligendum est Sed tamen uti Magistratus vitio creatus Magistratus tamen est propter populi consensum Lib. 5. de lâ—ng Latin quemadmodum docet Varro ita isti Sacrifici etsi vitio creati sunt Episcopi Presbyteri ut 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 potius quam 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 sint meritò appellandi tamen quadantenus Presbyteri sunt Episcopi praesertim apud eum populum qui in eo consensit Thus farre Danaeus whose testimonie I have rehearsed at large that every man may see with what fidelitie you quote Authors 1 Admonit p. 1. CAN. Neces of sep c. 4. §. 2. p. 173. as making for you You cite out of the admonition that the Non-conformists complaine That they have not scarce the face of a Church But this accusation long since hath been answered that in saying the face of the Church doth not so much appeare for so the whole processe of their book doth declare that they meane when they say That we are scarce come to the outward face of the same T. C. repl 1. p. 175. Albeit I have shewed how uâ—true it is that the admonition affirmeth that there is no Church in England yet I cannot passe by the secret Philosophy whereby Mr. Doctor would prove that the Authors of the admonition affirme it T.C. repl 1. p. 23. T.C. repl 1 p. 51. 2. repl par 1. p. 369. Hos 4.6 CAN. Neces of Sep. p. 9. 31. T.C. repl 2. par 1. p. 273. they grant that wee have the true Church of God but that for want of those ordinances which it should have and through certaine the deformed rags of Poperie which it should not have the Church doth not appeare in her native colours and so beautifull as it is meet she should be prepared to so glorious an Husband as the Son of God Master Cartwright severely reprehendeth the abuses of the Ignorant Ministers which in respect of the place which they occupie are Idols because they stand for that and make shew of that which they are not and therupon he addeth admit you them as often as you will the Lord pronounceth that they shall be no Ministers to him which have no knowledge This you cite many times But in two things Master Cartwright explaineth himselfe first That through ignorance of that which they doe some
concerning the Worship of God only Israel might not adde either to the Statutes or Judgements of the Lord and if by Statutes be meant Decrees for Religion or the Worship of God only which cannot be proved by the use of the Word by judgements they cannot be understood likewise By this saith Master Ainsworth God forbiddeth all inventions of men Eccl 7.29 the workes of their owne hands Jer. 25.6 and the Statutes of the Kings of Israel which they after made without the Commandement of the Lord. But the inventions of men respect the Commandments of God in generall and not the Ceremoniall Ordinances only nor yet the immediate worship of God alone He shall doe good service to the Papists that shall limit the Texts in that manner for by such like distinctions they seek to elude them when they are produced to prove the perfection of the written Word of God in all things necessary to salvation Ye shall take heed saith the Lord to all the things that I have said unto you But this cannot be restrained to the ceremoniall precepts concerning Gods Worship but must be referred to all things that God gave them in charge David prayeth Psal 119.133 Direct my steps in thy Word and let none iniquitie have dominion over me But what can be more plaine than that David doth not speake of the worship of God alone but desires that all his counsells thoughts manners actions might be directed according to Gods Word because the Word of God is the rule of all our actions In which sense also it may be affirmed That Negative conclusions in matters of faith and duties Hen. Aiâ—sw 2. Ans p. 55. The 〈◊〉 cited sc Deut. 5.32 12.32 Speak of Gods Commandements in generall you take one in particular and because one is not all therefore all must not be all A Dâ—spute part 1. cap. 4. p. 8. The lavves of the Church declare unto us what is fittest in such things as are in their own nature indifferent and neither enforced by the law of God nor nature Id. p. 21. As when the Church ordaineth that in great Townes there shall be a Sermon on such a day of the week and publike Prayers every day at such an hourt c. First book of Scotish Discip In great Townes we thinke expedient that every day there be either Sermon or Common Prayer c. Zanc. in quartum praeceptum in tract de discip Eccles in fine Calv. Instit l. 4. c. 10. §. 30 31. Eâ—fi fateamur non â—nviti ex insitâ naturali Dei â—ognitione ersi corrupta sequietiam in genere Deum esse colendum Item non solum interno affectu cultum illum fieridebere sed etiam externo actu Negamus tamen naturali leg determinatam esse speriem il am externi cultus Rivet in Gen. exercit 42. Sec Sculâ—et Ethic. lib. 1. Neither Angels nor men can make a Sacrament Caâ—seh art 4. p. 104. follow well from Scriptures silence If the way or manner of Worship be put for immediate Worship then it extends as large as the Commandements of the first Table and the sense of the proposition must be That no Worship publike or private must be performed to God for substance manner or time other than that which God hath prescribed in his Word which holdeth not true unlesse it be added That no worship must be performed as necessary and holy for substance manner and time which God hath not prescribed For what shall we say of the time of rivate Prayer in the familie or closet the forme of catechizing and translations of the Scripture the times for publike Lectures and exercises of Religion upon the week day and ordering and government of Schooles and Universities for these things are not for time words and manner prescribed or determined of God If the word Worship be taken more strictly for substantiall Worship commanded in or referred to the first and second Commandements usually known by the titles of inward and outward worship Naturall and positive instituted Worship though perhaps the termes be not so fit if better were found out then the meaning is that no Worship of God inward or outward naturall or positive is lawfull but what is prescribed and determined of God in his Word But then there want not difficulties for how should Worship be naturall if it must be instituted and prescribed If the light of nature or reason teach it which is planted in the heart by the singer of God how can it be unlawfull unlesse it be prescribed by an externall word of institution What shall wee say of outward gestures made in and upon the body to declare the hidden affection of the soule must these be prescribed and determined or fall under this censure When the Word informeth me to call upon God in the Mediation of Jesus Christ doth not reason it selfe without any further institution teach me to kneele lift up my hands c. At least if worship be naturall or positive must there be a distinction of the institution or prescription of this worship also Doth not positive Worship require one manner of institution naturall another If the way or manner of Worship be restrained to positive or instituted only it is most true No worship is lawfull which is not in speciall commanded or appointed of God in his Word But then the Texts of Scripture quoted by you for proofe will not speak unto it Ye shall not doe saith Moses after all things Deut. 12.8 which wee doe here this day every man all that is right in his owne eyes Some Greek copies have it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Others 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is according to the Hebrew Ainsw annot in Deut. 12.8 And the speech of Moses seems to mean the true Service of God which was not yet perfected neither could be in their travells Iun. annot in Deut. 12.8 Analy in loc P. Martyr in 1 Reg. 8. Vetabl Nefeceritis id est Non facietis omnino ut nos c. hodiè ante ingressaÌ„ viz. terrae sanctae hic facimus i. extra terram sanctam Deodar Italic Deut. 12.8 i. concerning sacrifice the law of which they did not observe exactly by occasion of the continuall wandring of the people Ainsw annot in Rev 10.19 Deâ—dat Ital. in Lev. 10 â—9 The Lord hath shewed great wrath against me by the death of my sons how then can I cate of this sacrifice to beare the siâ—s of the people according to the ordinary law the Lord not being pleased with me myselfe Others would have it That he could not eate because he was in heavinelle it bâ—ing â—cet he should eate those things with joy and thanksgiving Vatabl annos in Loc. as it was after in Canaan v. 10.11 Not that they sacrificed after their fancie saith the Geneva notes but that God would be served more purely in the land of Canaan Jun. upon this place noteth Etsi oblationuÌ„ lex unasemper fuit ab
the Altar is put for Christ in the Ancients Ignat. ad Magnesian To one Altar to one Lord Iesus Christ Ad Philadel one Altar to all the Church Iren. adv haeres l 4 ca. 34. est Ergo Altare in caelis Euseb Hist lib. 10. cap. 4. and the flesh of the peace-offering But that all Ordinances of the Church done out of a true constituted Church in your sense should be altogether unlawfull or that the Ordinances are tyed to your Church constitution as the Sacrifices were to the Temple that we reade not and how then shall we be perswaded of it Remember your owne request Let the Scripture speake in the points betweene us for without it nothing is to be affirmed and beyond it nothing to be concluded Principally of old the Temple shaddowed Christ in and through whom we must present our service unto God and then the Church of Christians but that the externall constitution of a Congregationall societie is represented thereby in such sort as if it be thus or thus constituted it should be lawfull to joyne with them but if this or that externall rite be lacking it should be unlawfull to joyne in the worship of God is most unprobable In all ages the Lord hath had his Church in which he hath beene worshipped But evermore the faithfull were not to bring their sacrifices to the Tabernacle or Temple And if the Lord had chosen not that place for sacrifice other service pleasing and acceptable might and ought to bee performed in other places Therefore that Sacrifices should prefigure all Ordinances and exercises of the Christian Church Fulke in Matth. 23. Sect. 7. The Lords Altar that was in the Temple was a figure of Christs onely true sacrifice once offered Bishop Babin comfort notes upon Exod. 27. and the Tabernacle and Temple the externall frame and constitution of a Church is an unwritten tradition It is more reasonable a great deale to compare the externall frame of the Iewish Church with the outward order which God hath instituted for the Evangelicall Churches and worship with worship substance of Religion with substance and then it will follow that as the faithfull and religious Iewes might and ought to hold societie in the Ordinances of Religion when many things were amisse in the externall frame and constitution of the Church as the Priests idle covetous prophane the people dissolute impenitent rebellious so the faithfull in the Christian Church must hold Communion in the Ordinances of Grace though in the constitution of the Church the Officers and members much be out of order Doway annot in 3. booke of Kings pag. 7 15. The Doway glosse hath much more probbaility than yours To conserve unity say they there was but one Tabernacle one Altar for sacrifice in the whole people of Israel Wherupon when the two tribes and an halfe on the other side Iordan had made a severall Altar all the Tribes that dwelt in Canaan suspecting it was for Sacrifice sent presently to admonish them Aug. Epist 48 Quis non impudentissemè c. vid page seq Omnis ea distinctio in re Theologica est inanis fictio quae ex Dei mentiri nescis authoritate non accipitur quaeque rem ipsam de qua agitur tollit c. Martin de persona Christ page 632. c. but what end shall we have if every man upon his owne head may devise or Coyne significations of Gods Ordinances What is this but to bring in a new word to set up Sacraments upon our own heads Herein we say to you and them as you to your opposite I require the voyce of the Shepheard Read it mee out of the Prophets Shew it mee out of the Psalmes c. In the interpretation of the Types and Figures of the Law mens judgements if the Scripture goe not before them are of small credit Can. Stay Sect. 3. Pag. 20.21 If that be true in the Philosopher Opposit a sunt simul natura Arist Topic l. b. 6. Bonum est cujus contrarium est malum Rhetor. l. 1. If vvee take a strâ—ct vievv and enquirie of that Ministery Worship and Government vvhich they left at Dan Bethel it will appear evidently that the same was not more salfe idolatrous and unlawful than the present Ministerie worship and Government of the English Assemblies is by the Non-conformists affirmed to be Jeroboams Apolog in his Arrovv against Idolatry CAN Necess of Sep. p. 85.86 87 88. Course of Comfor p. 161.162 Opposite things in nature are alike Againe That is good whose contrary is evill It must needs followes that as some Churches are visibly true in respect of faith and order so others may bee true too having outward order albeit the members thereof have no faith at all The which assertion is not to bee answered but abhorred The tenne Tribes which departed from the Lord from his Temple Sacrifices Priests Altar and other holy signes of his presence at Ierusalem from the time and still after were not Gods Church so the Scriptures shew Hos 2.2 and 2 Chron. 15.3 Ier. 3.8 Amos 9.7 c. And the Israelites when they worshipped at Dan and Bethel were not in respect of faith and Doctrine more corrupt than the other now is Mr. Amsworth and the Non conformists affirme that the Apostate Iewes could justifia their way and course of Religion as well if not better than the other ANSWER The Philosophicall Maxime to which you have reference is Arist. de Caelo lib. 2. cap. 3. Text. 19. Posito une contrariorum ponitur alterum But as you cite it It is as hard to be found as your translation is to be understood That it is not universall appeareth out of Arist himselfe who putteth down the contrary Maxime as true and certaine Arist Gategor l. c. 11 de contrar Non necessarium est Si contrariorum alterum sit alterum esse Nam si omnes sint sanitas quidem erit morbus non erit So in the first Creation of all things all things were very good and there was nothing evill All things created are finite in act but amongst things created there neither is nor can be a naturall infinite Truth and false-hood good and evill Piety and Idolatry are opposite and that before ever false-hood evill or Idolatry had any being in the world Contraries we know expell one another Or if one be necessary in the subject the other cannot be in it at least in the intense degree as if fire be hot it cannot be cold Now it is necessary that every thing created be finite and good as created and therefore good had a being before evill If it be objected that opposites are relatives and relatives are together in nature the answer is they are relatives secundum dici as they speake not secundum esse which may bee said to be together in nature Not that both are in act existent out of their causes but because the nature of
the ordinary way and meanes Id. Sect. 15. p. 132. which the Scripture speakes of to beget men to the faith For as a false forged constitution makes a Church a reall and substantiall Idoll So all that comes from it is touched with the Idolatry of that constitution This is a ruled opinion of many Divines The State makes all the publike actions to be formally good or evill For as the Temple sanctifieth the gold Matth. 23.17 the Altar the offerings so the Ordinances of the Church under the Gospell are sanctified unto us Bucer in Mat. 23.17 That is as Bucer truely speaketh in the use of them made lawfull to us in that they have their rise from a true and right power Seeing therefore the Church in Question wants a right Constitution it must follow that all spirituall actions done in it whether Prayer Preaching Sacraments Censures as they are there done are none of Gods Ordinances though true it is in themselves they are of God If the false Churches of whom we disputed CAN. Stay Sect. 15. p. 131.132 Id. Sect. 2. p. 8. be that spirituall Babylon mentioned in the Revelation cap. 18.4 then it is unlawfull for Gods people to goe unto them to performe any spirituall or religious action and so consequently not to heare theâ—e But the first is true Ergo the later is true also The proposition needs no proofe because our opposites and we herein are of opinion alike The assumption is manifest by these reasons Artopaeus in Rev. 18. pag. 198. Flac. Illyric in Rev. 18.4 Par. com in Hos 4. pag. 506. Bulling in Apoc. ca. 18. con 76. 1. The words in the Text prove it plainely Come out of her my people that is remove your selves from all false assemblies covenant together to walk in all the wayes of God serve the Lord among your selves in spirit and truth and returne not from whence you are come But repent rather that yee have suffered your Consciences to bee wrought upon by any unlawfull Officers And thus doe the Learned interpret the place namely of such a coming out as that we may not be bodily present at any of their worship 2 Cor. 6.1 Ioh. 5.21 Zech. 11.17 Botlac prompt allegoriar cap. 21. de Minist It is like that filthy bird which carryeth this Motto Contactu omnia saedat The publisher and others with him have comitted appatant Idolatry maintained it in the Church and sought thereby to pervert the right wayes of the Lord. Jd. sect 1. p. 7. Id sect 15. p. 133. A false Church state is rightly likened to the leprosie spread in the wals of the houses of the Lepers because of the pollution which it causeth to the persons and things Take for instance a Citie or Towne if the civill State or Corporation which they have be usurped aevised or derived from a false power all their publike administrations are unlawfull and every one partaking thereof offendeth So all administrations done in a false Church whether prayer Preaching Sacraments Censures are uncleane actions and doe defile every receiver J say because of the Idoll State which is devised out of a mans braine and used as a meanes to serve God in it and by it All the Ordinances done after the invention and will of Antichrist can no otherwise be judged than a brood common to the nature of the breeders that is the Devill and the Whore of Rome the Father and Mother that did beget them ANSWER THe Faithfull are commanded to come out of spirituall Babylon and not to communicate with her in false worship or Idolatry Revel 18.4 as the Text doth confirme and your opposites grant And therein it was needlesse to muster up the testimonies of the Learned to give evidence in a case maintained and practised notoriously sc that we must flye from the society of Rome and not be present to behold their worship Your labour herein is superfluous but that the Names of Learned men here numbred up might serve to cover your nakednesse when you come to the point in controversie wherein you prove just nothing at all But our Churches wherein the Gospell of Christ is purely preached and professed in all points fundamentall the seales of the Covenant of Grace rightly administred who are separaced from spirituall Babylon in mind and body and have fled from her worship and Idolatry who are built upon Christ the true and firme foundation of his Church and by Christ himselfe acknowledged for his people and graced with his favourable presence Our Churches I say cannot be deemed or reputed spirituall Babylon without great injurie to Christ his truth his Church and Saints By spirituall Babylon in this booke of the Revelation is meant Rome Christian departed from the faith guilty of the blood of Saints stained with manyfold and fearfull Idolatries the mother of fornications who hath made drunke the Kings of the earth with the cup of her poysons as might bee confirmed by the Scripture it self the joynt consent of learned orthodox Divines and the testimonie of Papists themselves But to brand the Churches of Christ since the reformation who have renounced Antichrists doctrine worship and idolatries and embraced the intire faith of the Lord Jesus with that odious hatefull name is contrary to the truth of God evident reason and the judgement of all approved godly learned men You miserably corrupt and pervert the Text when you give this to be the sense thereof Remove your selves from all false Assemblies covenant together to walke in all the wayes of God serve the Lord among your selves in spirit and truth and returne not from whence you are come This is not to interpret Scripture and learne of them what wee are to thinke but to racke Scriptures to our sense and make them speake according to our fansies which is an high point of Antichristianisme If you will stand to your principles within two hundred yeares after Christ or lesse there was not one true Christian societie in the whole world which did walke together in all the wayes of God and serve God in a Church state among themselves And will you say the faithfull are charged of God in this passage of holy writ to remove and separate from all Christian assemblies that then were in the world and to serve God among themselves If corruption in doctrine manners worship government and orders make a false assembly Rome was a false assembly long before the Lord gave commandement to his people to depart thence and separate themselves Israel for a time continued in Egypt and Babylon viz. untill the Lord sent to bring them forth and the Church lay hid in Babylon and that by the providence and approbation of God long after Rome was miserably corrupted and defiled The matter is notorious and therefore to spend more words about it is needlesse Hee that considereth the state of things long before the faithfull separated from Rome and what is written in defence of that separation which
any spirituall communion with it Truely it would make a man admire if he should understandingly compare together the writings of these two companies touching a Church ministery For in their opinious about it they are as contrary each to other as light to darkenesse Christ to Belial righteousnesse to unrighteousnesse notwithstanding though so different in judgement yea they will communicate together in one ministery but one of these against knowledge offend surely let them look well to it For to him that knoweth to doe good and doth it not to him it is sinne that is his fault is so much the more and propertionably his condemnation shall be without repentance ANSWER Instead of sound arguments wee have here your rash and unadvised censure the one of these you say against knowledge offend surely But what evidence can you bring to justifie this condemnatorie sentence or how can you reconcile your selfe unto your selfe herein CAN Necess of separat page 30. August de civ Dei lib. 5. c. 17. Nihil est loquacius vanitate quae non ideo potest quod van tas quia si volue it plus etiam clamare potest quam veretas Here you tell us the Conformists many of them at least offend not against their Conscience and formerlie you expresse your Charitie to the Non-conformists that although their practice is not strictsie answerable to their profession and therefore doe give just occasion to the Prelates to insinnate against them hypocriticall ends yet you for your part are other wise minded than the Bishops in this thing and doe thinke that they doe of Conscience condemne the state of that Church but doe not maturely consider the responsive conclusions which follow upon their principles These were your thoughts then and what should occasion this sudden change And if you will weigh what you have written of necessity you must accuse your selfe of grosse inconsideratenesse in saying you know not what and perverting mens words of all sorts or of sinne against Conscience if you write what you know to be false Considering how you deale in both your bookes throughout I scarce know an Author who hath more need to look home than your selfe It is true the Conformists and Non-conformists have written on both sides one against the other in matters of Church Government and Ceremonies and perhaps with bitternesse more than beseemeth wherein alwayes the forwardest men have not been of the greatest judgment or best moderation And therefore every thing that is written must not be interprered as the judgment of all or most of either side but as the private opinion of the pen-man which falleth out in all controversies amongst all sorts But whatsoever outcry you make of contrarieties there is no point of that weight and moment controverted betwixt them as might justly hinder communion together in the Ordinances of Religion If their contention had broken forth to such an head they might have beene answered more justly the one or both sides to offend of furie if not against conscience The Conformists you say keepe much better to their grounds than the other doe Calfeh against Mar. cap. 1. pag. 21. b. Somebuild timber and hey and stubble yet must vvee not take the hope of Gods mercy from such evill car penters as lay so rotten a covering upon so sure a building whereas othervvise they offending in tristes be sound enough in other matters and stick to Christ the only substantiall and true foundation for they consesse down right that their Ministerie is from the Church of Rome It seemeth you did neither much care nor enquire what they professe else you might have seene they say and professe in this point as the others doe The Conformists I use that word because you are pleased so to speake maintaine against the Papists that the first Bishops who laboured reformation in this kingdome did receive their ordination from Romish Bishops and had such calling as was to be found in that Church But doe they only acknowledge so much was not this evermore received for a truth in the ancient Church that ordination received from heretikes not erring in the maine fundamentall truths directly was true and effectuall Doe not all reformed Churches which have separated from the abominations of Rome professe that the first reformers amongst them received some ordinary calling in the Church of Rome which remained in that time of the visible Church corrupted For some of them were Bishops some Priests and Doctors approved of the Vniversities and ordinarie Churches many of them preached the Gospell and administred the Sacraments before excommunication or persecution raised by the Adverfaries in that they were sent unto or set over severall Churches or congregations in which they ought to execute their office or ministration therein they received commandement to preach the Gospel If men that sent them did mix anything else to their calling they must be obedient to divine institution not to humane addition So being after an ordinary manner sent of God singularly they were extraordinarily stirred up of him to promote and set forward his kingdome Rivet Cathol Orthe tract 2. q 8. s 3 Belthaz Lydias no. in disp Tabari c. 11. Whit de ecc q. 5. c. 6. Bucer Siquid boni fuit in successione vocatione ordinatione Ecclesia jum cum primos nostros doctores Deminus excitavit id totum in illis si fuisse dixerimus quid cantra obycient poâ—lificit Num exim cedo vel Judaei vel Turcae vel Barbari ac prophans homines de reformanda Ecclesia prim verba facere ac non potius viri gravissimi doctissimi que Ecclesia passoris Thus Luther Hus Wickliffe and others were called both ordinarilie and extraordinarilie an ordinary calling they received in a corrupt Church and extraordinarily they were stirred up to fulfill the Ministerie they had received according to the commandement of God and not after the traditions of men It is generally received for a truth at this day that Baptisme administred by heretikes who erre not in the maine fundamentall truths of Baptisme In the ordination of bishops it is said Interrogamus te si omnem prudentiam tuam quantum tua capax est natura divinae scripturae sensibus accommoder evolueris vis ea quae ex divinis scripturis intelligis plebem cui ordinanduses verbis docere exemplis Accipe Euangesiâ— vade praedica populo tibi commâ—sso or deny not the essentiall forme of Baptisme is true for substance And if Baptisme be true and must bee reverenced as Gods ordinance deserveth there is some truth of Ministerie amongst them They that thinke the basest of Rome will acknowledge the Baptisme administred by Priests and Jesuites to bee true for substance And if the Baptisme of God may bee received or derived from their Ministerie it is no absurditie to affirme that the first seekers of reformation derived authoritie from God to preach the Word and administer the Sacraments by their Ministerie
word which doth ordinarily beget men unto God ought to bee heard yet wee cannot conclude on the contrary the word which doth not ordinarily beget is not to bee heard For the word is but a morall cause or instrument of faith and repentance whereby the Spirit worketh not necessarily but at pleasure If therefore the Spirit worke by the word as his instrument it is of God and wee are bound to heare it But if God worke not by it effectually to saving conversion it is of him notwithstanding So this affirmative is true sinne deserâ—eth death but this negative will not follow on the contrary good works deserve life For of justice death is due to the sinner as his wages but eternall life is the gift of grace The Papists argue thus Disgrace done to an Image tendeth to dishonour God and therefore by the Rule of Contraries Honour done to an Image tendeth to the honour of GOD. Their inference and yours turne both upon the same hinges And I might truly say unto you in your owne words Ibid. Have you not here shewed your selfe an acute disputer for to pull downe Bethel you build Babell to condemne the true hearing of Gods Word you commend Idolatry Consider therfore your owne reasons and be not so rash and hastie to disgrace your brethren Your obscure translating of Philosophicall Canons CAN. Stay Sect. 2. pag 54. CAN. Stay Sect. 9. pag. 100. I will passe over as Relata sunt simul natura which you English thus Relations in nature are alike and apply it as strangely Qualis causa tale causatum you translate thus As is the cause so that which is caused of the doing of the thing Idem qua idem semper facit idem which you render As is the same so alwayes followes the same effect whereby you turne principles or Canons at least into riddles and it is hard to say whether your interpretation bee more obscure or misapplication unreasonable to speake in your language as vaine as ever man made For that which is spoken of causes univocall necessary and proper at least that you referre to morall instruments as if the word preached by wicked instruments might not bee effectuall or a man could not heare an ungodly Minister preach the Gospell but he must partake in his sin CAN. Stay Sect. pag. Sect. 3.16.17 Id. Sect. 4. pag. 28. sect 5. p. 40. sect 1. p. 49. sect 4. p. 62.63 67 72 73 74 75. You are large in proving what is not questioned as that God must bee served as he hath appointed That it sufficeth not to intend a good end but the meanes must bee lawfull That men must not bow their knees to an Idol under pretence that they reserve their hearts unto God That wee must bee earnest and zealous against Idolatry That the matter of worship must be grounded on the word Consciences shall never find any sure port to run unto but only God Calf p. 22. and that it must be done in a right and lawfull manner order form or way That the law of God is the rule of conscience That custom must not prescribe against truth That we must not doe evill that good may come thereof with other the like which you know well your Opposites do believe and maintaine But that God is not worshipped in our assemblies as he hath appointed That to heare the word preached in our congregations is pernicious Idolatry that the means therein be unlawfull that the ministerie is Idolatrous or the worship vaine that you prove not either by Scripture or any learned approved Author whatsoever you bring in both your bookes to this purpose besides your own peremptorie actions may be shut up in few words The Authors which you quote are oftimes abused you mangle their words and make them seeme to speak what they never meant or intended CAN Stay sect 3. p. 57. The truths they teach you say speaking of the Ministers of the English Church are from God but the office which gives them power and charge to speake them is from Antichrist and a speciall character or marke as the learned write of the beast Simon on Rev. pag. 120. Acts Mon. edit 5. pag. 588. On Rev. ca. 14.9 Though Priests Deacons for preaching Gods word ministring the sacramets with provision for the poor bee grounded on Gods law yet have these sects no manner of ground thereof L. Cobh Act. and Mon. p. 514 5â—5 Thus said Iohn Chaydon a Martyr of Christ The Bishops licence to preach the Word of God is the true character of the beast that is of Antichrist The like M. Bale and others But no word sounding that way is to be found in M. Simons Since their law of Confirmation was made saith hee the Bishop with the Chrisme doth signe the partie in the forehead with the character of the crosse And since they made their new office or sacerdotall thus they make their cate chumine The child or partie is brought to the Church doores where the Priest maketh a crosse with his thumb on the forehead of the childe and at the font the priest maketh a crosse in the right hand of the child c. Thus this Author but to your purpose not one word M. Bale was so farre from condemning the office of Bishops simply as Antichristian that hee himselfe was Bishop of Osyris in Ireland And how likely it is then that he should absolutely condemne a Bishops licence to preach the Gospell of Jesus Christ in the Churches of Christ as the mark and Character of the beast let any man judge What he might condemn in some respect and consideration in popish bishops as they stand sworne slaves to that Antichrist of Rome that cannot be drawn to the testimonie of Bishops CAN Neces of separ p. 25â— who have cast off the authoritie and renounced the doctrine of Antichrist And the same may bee answered to the testimonie of John Châ—ydon You many times repeate that upon the Nonconformists grounds to returne unto the service in the Church of England is to joyne with Idolaters in Idolatry This no doubt is a vehement accusation if it can be proved if it be rashly surmised then it is as pestilent a slander But ground out of the Nonconformists for such conclusions you have shewed none nor once take notice of that which is alledged to the contrarie which you could not but see if you could have found any exception against it They doe not deny but there is a visible Church of God in England and therefore your saying of them that they doe almost in plaine and flat tearmes say that we have not so much as any outward face and shew of the true Church argueth that you have almost no love in you which upon one word once uttered contrary to the tenour of their booke T.C. repl 1. p. 8. Vnreasonab of separation p. 81. and course of their whole life surmise this of them Thus a chiefe Nonconformist
displeased with their owne service and will renounce their owne Religion If Pope Pius the fourth promised to Queene Elizabeth that if shee would reconcile her selfe to the Church of Rome Pius the fourth in his Bull sent forth against Queene Elizabeth saith ImpioruÌ„ numerus tantum potentiâ invaluit nullus jam in orbe locus relictus fit quem illi pessimis doctrinis corruÌ„pere non tentarint And then speaking of Q. Elizabeth Missae sacrificium preces jejunia cihorum delectum caelibatuÌ„ abolevit and acknowledge the supremacy of that Sea he for his part would binde himselfe to declare the sentence pronounced against her Mothers marriage to be unjust to confirme by his authoritie the English Liturgie and to permit the administration of the Sacrament here in England under both kindes It is no new thing for the Pope to permit and confirme both for his owne sinister end what he doth not like or approve It is no strange matter that the Pope should preferre his supremacy before the purity of Religion And by the words of the offer the promise of the Pope seemeth not to be extended to the whole Liturgie and service of the Church as it is established by Law but to some part alone perhaps as it was practised before the sacrifice of the Masse was abolished For why should it be added that he would permit the administration of the Sacraments in both kindes if he would confirme the whole English Liturgie as it is now set forth After Queene Elizabeth was proclaimed a Proclamation came forth that the Letany the Epistles and Gospels the Decalogue the Creede and the Lords-prayer should be read in all Churches in the English tongue but it was the fourteenth of May after being Whitsunday before the sacrifice of the Masse was abolished and the booke of the uniformitie of common-prayer and the administration of the Sacraments publiquely received but whether the whole Service be meant or no it is not much materiall for he could not confirme it but he must condemne himselfe If the Papists for the first ten yeares The seditious Bull of Pius Quintus was set up published by Felton a rebellious traytor in the twelfth yeer of Q. Elizabeth which bare date the fifth of the Calends of March Anno 1569. An. 13. The statute for subscription to the Doctrine of faith SacrameÌ„ts An. 17. of Q. Elizabeth there was great stirre about Ceremonies and Discipline Scripsit haec ille saith Mr. Parker speaking of Dr. Whiteg ante natam separationeÌ„ nostram quae utinam O utinamâ—nata nunquaÌ„ fuisset Park de polit Eccl. l. 1. ca. 14. sect 1. Ann. 20. Began a flourishing time An. 26. Universall subscription offered to the Ministers After which followed grievous troubles and then separation and falling from the Chh. August lib. 1. contr ep Parm. c. 7. Nec quae dicebant probare potuerunt et adhuc in sanctae Ecclesiae praecisione Sacrilego furore ferebantur Acts and Mon. vol. 3. title The Cannon of the Masse resorted to our publique Congregations and service what can we thinke but that the hand of the Lord was with us for good whiles we sought him unfaignedly who caused our enemies at least lyingly to submit themselves For in the first ten yeares of Queen Elizabeth there was sweet consent amongst brethren The Pope durst not curse the Gospell flourished and was glorifyed the Papists durst not oppose themselves and I thinke there was not a man that thought of separation The pressing of subscription and conformitie in the tenth yeare of Queen Elizabeths Reigne was that which brought in all the troubles and contentions following For after that Brethren wrote one against another the Papists they fell backe to their vomit and in processe of time and not long after some of fiery spirits advanced the Controversies to such an height as they forsooke their brethren renounced their Mother and drew themselves into voluntary separation or schisme Which rents have beene encreased unto this day by the violent urging of subscription and conformitie on the one fide and the maintenance of that rash and sinfull departure on the other But these things convince not our service to be idolatrous In few words if our publique worship be false and devised it must be either because it is a stinted or set Liturgie devised by man or for some speciall reason in respect of the former matter If because it is a stinted or set Liturgie devised by man then it is in vaine to say it is picked out of the Masse-booke or it pleaseth the Papists or the Pope would have confirmed it For this doth not make it devised worship but it is devised worship because it is a set or stinted forme And then the same sentence must passe against all set formes of Psalmes Blessings Confessions and Catechismes Then the publique worship of all the Churches of God throughout the whole world for the space of this fourteene hundred yeares if not more was false devised and idolatrous If in respect of the peculiar matter or forme then either the bare forme of words order and methode must be a part of worship or the matter and substance of prayers and administration of the Sacraments be forged and devised worship neither of which was ever said by any Nonconformists nor can be avouched with colour of truth The forme may be too like the Masse-booke in some things and the matter in every point not so pure as is to be desired but the forme is not worship nor prayers and substance of administration devised worship Such is the unholinesse of this Idol-booke Sect. 2. Neces Can. of Separat p. 81 82. 2 Admon pag. 56. Def. Admo pag. 4. 1 Admonit pag. 3. Syons plea. 342. 318 314. Mr. Gilby pag. 29. 2 Admon 57. 1 Admon 3. as the Nonconformists generally have refused to subscribe unto it affirming it to be such a peice of worke at it is strange any will use it there being in it most vile and unallowable things And for this cause they have besought the Peeres of the Readâ—ie that it might be utterly removed and many reasons they have given in severall Treatises to prove their condemnation of it just and lawfull First because it is an infections Liturgie Romish-stuffe a divised service and in it are many Religions â—ixed together of Christ and Antichrist of God and the Devill besides a booke full of fansies and a great many things contrary to Gods Word and prayers which are false foolish superstitious and starke naught Secondly They cannot account it praying as they use it commonly but onely reading or saying of prayers 2 Admon 56. even as a childe that learneth to reads if his lesson be a prayer he readeth a prayer and doth not pray even so it is commonly a saying and reading prayers and not praying Thirdly In all the order there is no edification but confusion Fourthly Wee reade not of any such Liturgie in the Christian Church
in the dayes of the Apostles 1 Admon pag. 14. Altar Dam. 178. nor in many ages following till blindnesse ignorance and lazinesse occasioned a prescript forme to be made for idle and dumbe Priests Fifthly If this were not many would make more profession of Love to preaching and hearing Gods Word but by this meanes it is neglected and despised for worldlings usurers drunkards whore-mongers and other earthly and prophane people away with nothing so well as English Masse Against Br. 43. Curt. Ch. power 42.45 and why but because it doth not sharply reprove them of their sinnes nor disclose the secret of their hearts but that they may continue in all kinde of voluptuousnesse and all other kinde of wickednesse Learn Discour of Eccl. Govern 68. Mart. Senior p. 2. Pract. of Prin. addi and therefore rightly it is called their sterve-us-booke Sixthly God hath no where appointed that the Church should be tyed to reade the Booke of Common-prayer for his worship and therefore to doe it is an high transgression before him as great as the sinne of Nadab and Abihu and such are liable unto the like or greater punishment Seventhly If this were praying and there were never an ill word nor sentence in all the prayers yet to appoint it to be used or to use it as Papists did their Mattens and Evening-song for a seâ—-service to God though the words be good the use is naught The words of the first Chapter in John be good but to be put into a Tablet of gold 2 Admon pag. 55. for a soveraigne thing to be worne the use is superstitious and naught and so is the use of this Service The Nonconformists never passed any condemnatorie sentence against the Booke of Common-prayer Answer as if it was false or devised worship or against the use of a stinted forme as if to reade it was an high transgression before the Lord. Enough hath beene said of their opinion in the former section whereunto adde this testimony of a man of another Nation whom you are pleased to stile a chiefe Nonconformist Course of Confor pag. 58. The famous confession of faith well known and commended at home and abroad the formes of prayer publiquely used in the Congregations and families of Scotland must be cast in a new mould It is true Beza Epist 2. Gravissimè nimirum in semetipsos in fratres reliquos peccare qui naevis istis aut etiam si mavis corruptâ—lis et suas ex aliorum cosâ—entias non leviter perturbant perinde ac si de Christianismo semel ablato ageretur c. Sed vitia a vitiis quae condonanda sunt Christianae chariâ—ati ab iis quae prorsus sunt execranda pradenter distinguenda esset censeo idque tamen non ex carnis sed spiritus prudentiâ—â— the Nonconformists judge it unlawfull to subscribe to that Booke that every thing conteined therein is agreeable to the Scripture but they condemne not the Booke as an Idol or prophane nor the use of the Booke in those things which are consonant to the truth And of this their judgement there is evident ground for we must not approve the least error though in it selfe never so harmlesse for truth because that were to lie against the truth and the God of truth needeth not my lie But many things must be tolerated when it is not in our power to amend them which we cannot approve otherwise we must hold communion with no Church or societie in the world And of this marke are the corruptions noted in the Communion-Booke as hath been shewed and is evident by the particulars mentioned in passages which you alledge It is true likewise they judge the Booke in the forme thereof to come too nigh the Papists and so have others as well as they and therefore have petitioned that it might be reformed that we might depart further from them and come neerer to the reformed Churches But herein they shew what they judge most convenient not condemning the Booke for the substance thereof as a forged worship How much more convenient were it saith T. C. T.C. repl 2. p. 109. that according to the manner of the reformed Churches first the Minister with an humble and generall confession of faults should desire the assistance of the Lord for the fruitfull handling and receiving of the Word of God and then after we have heard the Lord speake unto us in his Word by his Minister the Church should likewise speake unto the Lord and present petitions and suits at once c. But how carefull he was to prevent such wayes and speeches as some professors of the Gospel being private men might be emboldned to breake forth upon such like exceptions T.C. repl 1. p. 106. is evident by that solemn request he makes unto them that professe the Gospell in the name of God that they abuse not his labour to other ends than he bestowed it and that they keep themselves in their callings commit the matter by prayer unto the Lord leaving to the Ministers of the word of God and to the Magistrate that which pertaineth to them The Protestants in France for substance of matter agree with the Nonconformists herein The use of the whole Booke for matter and manner in every thing without addition or alteration they doe not approve because they conceive some things faulty others inconvenient and some things defective and strictly to be tyed to words and syllables is more than the Lord hath bound us unto in the administration of his holy Sacraments But the substance of prayers in the Booke they never disallowed nor the use of the booke 2 Admonit pag. 56. â— Admonit pag. 3. as of a vile and filthy thing Thus the Authors of the Admonition must be understood when they say The Booke is such a peice of worke as it is strange we will use it And now they are bound of necessitie to a prescript order of service and booke of common-prayer in which a great number of things contrary to Gods Word are conteined c. For they professe they have tolerated what they could not amend 1 Admonit pag. 9. Park of the Crosse part 2. ca. 9. sect 4. Wee receive the Communion-book in what wee may and in omitting of the ceremonies we doe in equitie keep the Law because of the end which is to edifie and used the Booke in their Ministery so farre as they might even where they object as great corruptions against it as in any other place To reade or repeate a prayer by heart as if the bare rehearsall thereof in so many words and syllables and none other was a part of Gods worship is a transgression of his commandement whether it be prescribed by others or devised of our selves or set downe in Scripture And the same may be said of the preaching of the Word to place opinion of worship in the meere act done in such words or methode is will-worship
doe nothing but reade as that which makes men neglect the preaching of the Word therefore a prescript Liturgie is disliked To appoint or use a prayer conceived or stinted as the Papists doe their Mattens and Evensong for a set service to God howsoever it be uttered ignorantly for custome with lips onely alone or with others in publique or private as if the rehearsall of such words though neither understood nonheard were an acceptable service from l Bils Christ subject part 4. p. 416. Your maine foundation is a dreame of your owne that the Church of Corinth had a prescribed nuÌ„ber of prayers pronounced by some one Chapsaine that said his lessoÌ„ within book and might not goe one line besides his Missale for any good This you imagine was their Church-Service all other prayers Psalmes blessings thankesgivings though they were used openly in the Congregation and the whole people bound to say Amen you will not have to be called Church-service which he must not depart one word for any good is a superstition justly to be condemned Thus to repeate the words of a prayer though never so good and holy is not to pray But this makes nothing against the lawfull holy religions use of a stinted forme of prayer publique or private which is that we plead for And this is all that can be gathered from the Author of the Admonition There needs no great skill to discerne the inconsequence of this manner of arguing which here you use To use a stinted forme as the Papists doe for a set-service is naught though the words be good therefore a stinted or prescribed forme is altogether unlawfull And put case some private or singular person hath spoken roughly in heate and passion of the Booke of Common-prayer or seemed to disallow the stinted use of a publike found of prayer or Liturgie his speech or position delivered as his private conceite and perhaps not rightly apprehended must not be interpreted the principle of the Nonconformists contrary to the tenour of their writing profession and practice much lesse must his words be racked contrary to his meaning as if he condemned all stinted Liturgies as falso deâ—ised and idolatrous worship or did leane unto favour or uphold the practice of separation from the assemblies because such Liturgies are in use among them Howsoever by the grounds of the Nonconformists laid downe in the second section Sect. 3 Can. Neces of Separat pag. 92 93 94 c. to 98. separation must necessarily follow from all communion with them in the worship of their Church-service-booke yet to have the point more fully proved I will here shew that every particular thereof is affirmed of themselves to be idolatrous false Antichristian Touching the Booke we may consider two things First The distinct services thereof Secondly The Ceremonies used in and about the same Wee will speake first of their Ceremonies that is of the Crosse Surplice and Kneeling in the act of receiving the Lords Supper Against these many Treatises have beene purposely written I will here onely observe some of their speeches referring the Reader to their Bookes if he desire more satisfaction c. Voluntary separation from the ordinances of Religion in our assemblies Answer is neither commanded by God nor taught by the Prophets or Apostles It is not approved by the practice of the Saints nor grounded upon the principles of the Nonconformists as hath beene shewed That there be m A disputation against the English-popish c. Epistle to the Reformed Churches In England Ireland every noysom weed which Gods hand never had planted was not pulled up c. Sprint repl to the answ pag. 269. acknowledgeth the reformatioÌ„ of England to have been defective abuses and corruptions in the Booke the Nonconformists doe not deny and therefore in all humilitie they have sought to have them reformed but that they affirme the whole service thereof to be idolatrous false Antichristian that is your impudent slander That many Treatises have been written against the Ceremonies imposed upon the Ministers and people is very true But in the relation which you make out of them these few things must be observed First what is spoken of one Ceremony you apply to all when there is not the same reason of all in the judgement of them that wrote Secondly what they write of the Ceremonies as they are used amongst the Papists that you report as if they understood it of the use of the Ceremonies as they are imposed and injoyned amongst us Thirdly The private opinion of one you alledge as if it was the common principle of the Nonconformists though you doe or might know that generally they are of another mind Fourthly Amongst your chiefest Nonconformists you alledge such as be not English-Nonconformists nor speake of English-Conformitie but that which was lately brought in among themselves whose case doth much differ from ours in their judgement But the further examination of these things is needlesse let us heare how from these principles of the Nonconformists you can conclude the necessitie of Separation From all which Can. Neces of Sepâ—rat pag. 98. this argument may be framed That worship in which a man cannot possibly communicate without sinne he is bound necessarily to separate from But that worship in which these Idolls are made and used viz. the Crosse Surplice and Kneeling a man cannot possibly communicate without sinne Therefore from that worship wherein these Idols are made and used a man is bound necessarily to separate The proposition is certaine and by Doctor Ames in his cases of Conscience acknowledged Although saith n Lib. 4. cap. 24. he we may joyne to that Church in which many defects are to be tolerated yet not to that in which we cannot but necessarily partake in sinne The Assumption is assented unto by as o Parker Crosse lib. 1. pag. 20. 21. judicious and zealous Nonconformists as ever held that cause and they have brought good proofes for it First because men must flie from Idols and Idolothites But when they come to worship God after the order of the Congregation where these things are practised they doe not flie from them but draw neere unto them Secondly Their bare presence argues their approbation and yeelding in shew to Ceremonies Thirdly p Mr. Bates p. 258. Though the personall sinnes of the Minister doe not hurt the people yet his ministeriall and publique sinnes doe hurt which he performes for the people to God and so their joyning with him is unlawfull Fourthly What example can be brought where the holy men of God have communicated with such things The Author of the dispute upon communicating at thier confused Communions affirmes confidently that the sitter is accessary to the sinne of the keeler and he gives many reasons for it whereof wee shall have a fit occasion hereafter to speake Can any man beleeve Answer that the Nonconformists say both parts of your reason are true viz. That a man
Dispute upon communicating at confused Communions affirming that the sitter is accessary to the sinne of the kneeler But he was no English-Nonconformist nor doth intreat of English conformitie And if there be any speciall reasons why presence should be accounted approbation with them in that particular it is no equitie his private opinion should be brought to the prejudice of them that maintaine another cause But as yet we cannot see either from Scripture grounds or Nonconformists principles that it is utterly unlawfull to be present at the worship of God in the administration whereof some superstitious rite is used or some fault committed Your long labour in setting downe the faults to be found in our Liturgie is to small purpose The Nonconformists doe except against many things appointed in the Booke as inconvenient at least and such as should be taken away or reformed as The reading of Apocryphall books under the title of holy Scripture specially such parts as be corrupt for matter The Crosse and Surplice as Idolothites by participation and signes of mysticall signification The corruptions in the translations and some things in the formes of Buriall Matrimony Thanksgiving for Women after child-bed c. But these they condemne not as Idolatry nor as that which maketh the worship it selfe m Magdeburg centu 2. ca. 2. col 109. A true Church as it containes the pure doctrine so also it keepes simplieitie of ceremonies but an hypocriticall Church as it departs from pure doctrine so for the most part it changeth augmenteth the ceremonies instituted of God and multiplieth its owne traditions c. Can. Stay pa. 123. false and idolatrous It is one thing to say such a rite is inconvenient superstitious scandalous borrowed from the Papists not warranted by the word of God in the use will-worship if the word be taken largely another that the worship it selfe is false and idolatrous Therefore I will not stand to examine the particulars therein but proceed to examine what you bring further to shew the necessitie of Separation SECT IV. HEre is a fit place to propound a Question or two First whether to hold teach and practise the errours and lyes contained in their Canons Service-booke Booke of Articles and the ordering of Bishops Priests and Deacons doe mak◠a false Prophet Secondly Whether to hide from the people the knowledge of all the maine truths which concerne the outward regiment of Christs visible Church make a false Prophet Thirdly Whether it be lawfull to heare any false Prophet knowne so to be Qu In what ranke of Prophets unlawfull Ministers be and under what Scripture they are comprehended I would have a private Christian aske this Question of some learned Divine whom he knowes doth hold it lawfull to heare false Ministers And it is very likely he will answer him with deep silence There is one Question more viz. whether the Lords lawfull Priests which served at the Altar in Jerusalem might not as well urge their people to heare Jeroboams Priests at Dan and Bethel as the Ministers now under the Gospell to perswade men to heare in false Churches If is be not all one shew the difference ANSVVER TO your two last Questions answer hath been made divers times in sundry Treatises and in the first chapter of this present answer and you know the Scriptures plainly alledged to confirme what is said which you should have confuted if you had been able and not againe and againe to come over with the same thing If any learned Divine shall answer the demand with deep silence it may be because the partie demanding is uncapable of an answer not because there is any great difficultie in the matter It is a received Rule That the Accuser Plaintiffe and Affirmer should make proofe of what they say and if you erre your Questionist will affirme it is all one for the people of the Jewes to heare Jeroboams Priests at Dan and Bethel and the people in England to heare the word of God in our assemblies you must either bring good evidence for what you say or beare the brand of Slaunderers or false n Beza Epist 2. An enim obsecro aliter est de Sacramētis i. de doctrinae appendicibus quà m de ipsa doctrina judicandum At qui si nullam esse ecclesiā dicamus ubi nullus est prorsus in cunctis doctrinae Christianae dogmatibus naevus refellent nos Pauli Epistolae Corinthiacis et Galaticis Ecclesiis inscriptae c. Itaque ubi non satis pura est Ecclesiâ Ecclesia tamen est in qua salvum manet fundamentum ac multo magis ubi ritus Caenae Domini mutilus est Caena tamen est c. Accusers Is it sufficient thinke you to say If it be not so let them shew the contrary Your second Question will come to be handled in the next Chapter and there it shall be answered Your first Question onely which I scarce thinke another man would have asked pertaineth to this place wherunto I answer directly and plainly That a Minister of the Gospell may hold teach and practise according to the Book of Common Prayer Articles and Ordination and be a true Minister of Jesus Christ Nay he cannot truely hold and practice according to them but of necessitie he must be a true Minister in respect of his office and administration For the worship for substance there prescribed is of God the doctrine professed in respect of faith and Sacraments sound and true No errour either in speech hereticall or which doth tend to overthrow the foundation which is taught in them Suppose the seventie errours which o Can. Neces of Separat pag. 243 244 245. you reckon up were all true and justly taken against the Books and as many more to them might be named as it is not the number but the qualities of the errours which make a false Prophet false Church or false worship One fundamentall errour as the word is commonly used overthroweth the faith and twenty errours of inferiour alloy doe not much hurt the truth and soundnesse of faith The maine truths which concerne the very life and soule of Religion be p Vsher de success Eccl. cap. 1. few and the failings which may stand with the substance of Religion many Let it aske a better wit and head then ever Mr Dar. or your q Can. Neces of Separat pag. 185. selfe had to prove that there are halfe so many corruptions in the Religion professed by the English-Anabaptists adde if you please the Separatists Pelagians Arrians as are to be found in the English-Liturgie It will not be hard to prove that errours must be r The communion of the Catholique Church is not broken by the varietie of rites customes laws and fashions which many places and countries have different each from other except they be repugnant to faith or good manners August Epist 118. ad Ianuar. Euseb hist lib. 5. cap. 26. lib. 5. c. 23. Socrat. lib.
what if you doe not reade that Diotrephes was an unlawfull and Antichristian Minister you reade that he usurped over the faithfull hindred the due execution of Church-censures abused excommunication prated against the Brethren and practised a false government And if the want of discipline or neglect of due execution prove a Church to be no Church the faithfull in that societie were bound to separate If the Church had not the power of government at this time if we may beleeve you or receive your position they were no church if they had power in their hands and suffered it to be abused their sinne was the greater And if you take a view of your dealings in this or other particulars vilifying what you are not able to confute and wresting mens words contrary to their plaine meaning if your paper blush not I can hardly thinke but your conscience will smite SECT II. IF the Church of England hath not Christs keyes Can. Neces of Separat pag. 154. shee is not his saith Mr D. But the Church of England hath not Christs keyes saith Mr Brightman and y Syons plea. 111. others Therefore shee is not his house and consequently to be separated from ANSVVER YOur former reasons out of Mr D. I passe over because they have been answered already and are here thrust in to no purpose but onely to cover the insufficiency of your reply His answer was the want of discipline though an integrall part is no sufficient ground of separation This z Can. Neces of Separat p. 152 153. you offer not to disprove by any substantiall reason but with railing and reproach to disgrace wherein whether you more wound your own conscience or hurt your adversary be judge your selfe a Can. Neces of Separat pag. 212. 1 Pet. 3.9 Rom. 13.21 You say truely It is a Christian part not to render rebuke for rebuke and a thousand times better were it to sustaine even a legion of reproaches than for a man by turning though but one to give cause of suspition that evill hath got some part of conquest over him But if you looke into your own writings you shall finde them stuffed with insolent boasting scornfull taunts and reproaches unbeseeming your place person and a good cause I dare say all the Nonconformists that ever wrote in the cause of discipline never went in practise so much against their Principles as you in this one particular goe against your profession in the foresaid passage and a good conscience The matter in hand betwixt you and Mr D. is the absolute necessitie of Church-discipline to the being of a Church To what end then doe you bring That the Book of common-prayer used in the Assemblies of England is an infectious Liturgie Romish-stuffe a devised service raked out of three Romish Channells That the Ministery of the Church of England is unlawfull and Antichristian That the Ministery worship and government of of England are corruptions Doth this make ought to confirme your position or weaken the answer which was truely given But some thing must be said whether to or besides the purpose it matters not Another stratageme b Can. Neces of Separat pag. 153. you put in practice in the same place not very commendable You would seeme to confute the D. out of himselfe What say you if it appeare that Mr D. arguments doe lead rather to separation and that he speaketh one thing and practiseth another would not this be a strange sight especially to himselfe Now whether this be so we will here try by some reasons in his owne moode and figure But though the moode and figure be his the reasons be your owne and not his and the conclusions unjustly drawne from the Premises as the D. answered and we have shewed before Perhaps in warre stratagems may be of use but in the cause of God such cunning devices are dangerous symptoms This I note to entreat your serious reexamination of what you have done and now I come to the argument here propounded whereunto I make answer as you relate it for I have not the D. Booke to search out what he hath written The power of the keyes is twofold Concioualis Judicialis as it is usually called The first consists in the preaching of the Gospell wherein the kingdome of heaven is opened to the penitent sinnes remitted life promised and heaven shut to the obstinate which is the sword and the scepter of Christ whereby he saveth his people 2 Cor. 1.21 2 Cor. 10.4 Isa 11.4 Rom. 1.16 and conquereth his enemies beateth downe every strong hold pâ—ireeth to the division of foule and spirit and of the joynts and marrow and judgeth the very cogitations and thoughts of the heart These effects Christ executeth by his Word even when it is not assisted by the c To excommunicate is to remove the wicked irrepentant from participation of the Lords Supper least by sacrilegious presuming to violate that Table the ungodly should condemne themselves and defile others Bilson perpet gov cap. 9. discipline spoken of Now if it be rightly understood the Church of God cannot be without this key For the Church is gathered by the Word and is a company or societie which hath received the Word in profession at least and doth possesse it and amongst whom it dwelleth The Judiciall power of the d Excommunication is a meere spirituall punishment reacheth no further by Gods word than to take from offenders the remission of their sinnes by wanting the Word and Sacraments untill they repent Bilson Christian. part 3. pag. 52. keyes is the power of government which consisteth principally in the right ordering and dispensation of Church censures and so of the manners and necessities of all men which agreeth not to any one member nor to the communitie of the faithfull nor to any one singular governour but to the Ecclesiasticall Senate yet with due respect had to the communitie of the faithfull In the first sense the Church of England hath the power of the keyes e Cyp. lib. 1. epist 3. I hardly perswade the people yea I am forced to wrest it from them before they will suffer such to be admitted Bilson perpet gov c. 9. Great reason had those godly Fathers to see the whole Church satisfied before they released the sentence of excommunication c. and so doing they shewed not what right the multitude had to sit Iudges with the Bishop but what â—â—e themselves had to remove from the people all occasions of stumbling Id. pag. 113. If you take Excommunication for removing the unruly from the civill societie of the faithfull untill they conforme themselves unto a more Christian course of life I am not altogether averse that the whole Church should concurre in that action c. See August contr Par Ep. 1 l. 2. ca. 1. Can. Stay Sect. 12. pag. 123. not so much as is to be desired but in an eminent sort and that with Gods
this the Norâ—â—â—formists doe both teach and practice and therefore they have humbly sued for reformation but never either practised or approved your separation That which you cite out of the Harmony of confessions as if the reformed Churches did allow or teach what you practice I will set downe and leave it to every man to judge of your fidelitie The Church k Gallic confest art 26. None but Princes can give freedome and protectioÌ„ to these spirituall functions and actions Bilson Christian part 2. pag. 309. Gallican saith thus Credimus igitur nemiâ—â—â— licerâ— sese catibus subducerâ— in seipso aequiescere sed patius 〈◊〉 sâ—â—â—il tuendam conservandam esse Ecclesiae unitatem sese communi institutioni jugo Christi subijciendo ubjcunque Deus verâ—â—n illam disaiplinam Ecclesiastioâ—n constistuerit etiamsi Magistratuum edicta reclament à quo oxdiâ—â— quicubque seipsos seiâ—â—gunt ordinationi Dei resistant Psal 5. 42. Ephes 4.11 Act. 4.19 5.29 Heb. 10.25 And the l Belgic confessart 28. Without the helpe of Princes though the faith and Canons of Christs Church may bee privately professed and observed of such as be willing yet can they not be generally planted or setled in any kingdome nor urged by publique Lawes externall punishments on such as refuse but by their coÌ„sents that beare the sword Bils ibid. pag. 327. Id. part 3. pag. 296. If you will have the assistance of the Magistrates sword to settle the truth and prohibites errour and by wholesome punishments to prevent the disorder of all degrees that authoritie lieth onely in the Prince Belgick thus Credimus qued cum sacer hic caetus congregatio sit corum qui servari debent salus nulla sit extra eam neminem cujuscunque dignitatis aut nominiâ— is fuerit sese ab ea-subducere aut segregari debere ut sua tantuâ— consuâ—tudine contentus solus ac separatim vivat Sed conâ—â—a â—â—â—es as singulos teneri huic caetui se adjungere Ecclesiae unitatem sollicitè conservare seque illius tum doctrinae tum disciplinae subjicere collum denique Christi jugo sponte submittere tanquanâ— communia ejusdem corporis membra adificationi fratrum inservire prout Deus unicuique sua dona fuerit largitus Porro ut haee melius observentur omnium fidelium partes sunt sese juxta Dei verbum ab eis omnibus disjungere qui sunt extra ecclesiam constituti huicque fidelium caetui ac congregationi sese adjungere ubicunque illam Deus constituerit et si id contraria principum vel Magistratuum edicta prohibeant indicta etiam in eos capitis mortis corporcae poenâ qui id fecerint Quicunque igitur à vera illa Ecclesia recedunt aut sese illi aggregare recusant apertè Dei mandato repugnant Thus the Conclusion CHAP. IV. SECT I. ALL true visible Churches gathered and planted according to Gods Word Can. Neces of Separat pag. 173. consisted in their constitution of Saints onely But the Churches of England after Popery were not so constituted For the greatest number of them were prophane people even mockers and contemners of Religion as Atheists Idolaters Sorcerers Blasphemers and all sorts of miscreants and wicked livers Therefore the Churches of England are not true visible Churches There is never a part of this argument they can deny unlesse they will let fall their owne principles For the Assumption I make no question but it will passe without exception and none of them will have the face to oppose it considering how generally the thing hath beene affirmed and still is upon all occasions both in word and writing Now that the proposition may appeare as true also I will prove the same first by Scriptures secondly by reason thirdly by the testimonies of the learned ANSVVER IF both parts of this Argument be Nonconformists principles why doe you labour to prove the proposition true more than the assumption If it had been a confessed principle why doe you not fight against them with their own weapons as you pretend to doe throughout your Booke He is very dull that doth not smell somewhat herein But if it so please you The proposition is the Nonconformists and it is not For if this be the meaning thereof That all true Churches should consist of visible Saints not onely in their first gathering planting and constitution but also in their after continuance and propagations the Nonconformists doe acknowledge it for when sinne and wickednesse springeth or groweth in the Church the ordinance of God is violated But if this be the meaning That the societie which consisteth not of Saints onely is not the true Church of Jesus Christ that the Nonconformists utterly deny Also it is one thing to say The m Hieron Prefar lib. 2. in Epist ad Galat. Rursus facilitatis superbiae arguunturs Id. ad princ Marcelle Epitaph Difficile est in maledicâ civitate non aliquaÌ„ sinistri rumoris fabulam contrabere Id. in Praefat. in lib. Dydimini Sp. Sa. Cum Babylone versarer purpuratae meritricis essem colonâ— c. Church is not planted and gathered in all things according to Gods Word another to say it is no Church at all which is not planted and gathered in all things agreeable to the Word of God If then the meaning of the proposition be this That all true Churches planted and gathered according to Gods Word consisted of Saints onely because the ordinance of God is violated and his house polluted 〈◊〉 notorious offenders are received or tolerated the Noâ—conformists will acknowledge it But if you understand it thus That it is no true Church at all which consisteth not of Saints onely because it is not gathered planted constituted reformed in all things agreeable to the Word of God they never received it If you could not discerne this in their writings you were very blinde and partiall If you did discerne it and yet would passe it over that you might with some colour traduce them as going contrary to their owne principles or beguile others with an aequivocation where was your sincerity The Nonconformists will not deny but some things in the gathering and planting or rather the refining and government of the Church of England was and is done amisse not agreeable to the Word of God which they heartily desire and labour might be reformed but for things done amisse they dare not condemne the Church deny the grace of God separate from her communion or approve them that doe it It may be questioned also whether you dare not put a tricke upon your Reader in the phrase gathered and planted as if a church in continuance might consist of such as are not Saintâ— but if it be not gathered of such onely at the first it is no Church If this be your close intendment the proposition is farre from truth the minde of the Nonconformists and the matter in hand for in the reformation a new
Arian infection both in the reignes of Constantius and Julian the Apostata Athanas Graecolar tom 1. pag. 309. edit Comelit Theodor. hist l. 4. c. 3. Pelagius a Britaine by birth troubled the Churches with his pestilent Doctrine denying the grace of God attributing power and libertie to man to live without sinne and keepe the Commandements if he would This Heresie arose about the yeare 405. or 406. and the Author thereof drew his first breath in Britaine Prudent 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Trim. 13. speaking of Cyprian saith Gallos fovet imbuit Britannos praesidet Hisperiae Christum serit ultimis Hiberis Vsser de prim Eccles Britan. ca. 16. pag. 787. but he sowed not this hereticall doctrine in Britaine And though it must be confessed That these Churches were not altogether free from that infection yet at first it was opposed and after it was banished by the blessing of God About the yeare 420. flourished Fastidius of whom Gennedius in his catalogue of Ecclesiasticall Writers saith Fastidius Bishop of the Britaines wrote to Fatalis one booke of Christian life and another of keeping Widdow-hood in sound doctrine and according to the truth of God And John Trithemius Fastidius Bishop of the Britaines was a man learned in the holy Scriptures and an excellent Preacher of the word of God famous in life and conversation in speech and wit notable Prosper contra collater cap. 41. Vsser de prim pag. 319 320 323 324. He wrote some devout little works c. And by the vigilancy and care of Lopis and Germanus Antisiodorensis the Britaines were delivered from the contagion which had begun to infect the Churches After this the face of things was miserable in that Kingdome by reason of the invasion of the g Repellūt nos barbari ad mare repellit mare ad barbaros Inter haec duo genera funerū aut jugulamur autmergimur Bed hist eccl l. 1. cap. 14. Bilson The true difference betweene Christians Par. 1. pa. 56. That this Land was infected with Arianisme Pelagianisme as many other places then were I find it reported in the story of Beda Eccl. his gent. Angl. l. 1. c. 8. lib. 1. cap. 17. And the Bishops of France our neighbours upon request made unto them by the Britaines sent Germanus and Lupus two French Bishops chosen in a Synod by the generall liking to convert this realm from Pelagius errour which also they did with great celeritie barbarous enemy the terrible famine the direfull contagion of the Pelagian and Arian heresies and the loosenesse negligence drunkennesse contentions and other vices of the Clergie The Christian Religion thus corrupted was restored againe by the second comming of Germannus but after that grievously oppressed by the comming in of the Anglo-Saxons who could not yet so extinguish the truth of God but it did revive spread and grow though sometimes more pure sometimes more corrupt and sometimes with greater sometimes with lesse freedome But to come to the last reformation which was made of Religion in this Land and it was not the conversion of England from infidelitie to the profession of the Gospell but the restoring of it from a corrupt state or profession to a more pure from Christianitie polluted to Christianitie unpolluted Christians they were who inhabited this Land baptized into the true faith of Jesus Christ but Christians defiled with manifold superstitions led aside into manifold errors which errors and superstitions removed they become sound and true Christians indeed The true h Chaloner Credo S 2. part sect 2 It will soone appeare that the Ch◠of Rome for a thousand yeares after our Saviour professed no other faith nor published any other beliefe in points fundamentall either negative or affirmative than we doe c. After a thousand and some few yeares more were expired Transubstantiation and Adoration of the Host with other dregs of Antichrist being established though we cannot say that the Church of Rome was from thence forth absolutely our Church yet we may boldly say that our church was from that time untill Luther both within the Romane Church and without it Church lay hid in Popery as a little oare in a great lump of drosse not refined not purified not coyned but true gold for substance yea that very same for substance which being purified and stamped is currant coyne When the invocation of Saints worshipping of Images the Latine Service and fabulous Legends the sacrifice of the Masse and adoration of the Sacrament with such like abhominations were taken away and in the roome thereof the true worship of one true God in the mediation of Jesus Christ and the right administration of the Sacraments and the reading of the holy Scriptures in a knowne tongue established when the omnipotency of the Pope is abandoned with all corrupt superstitions which did undermine the foundation it selfe and in stead thereof the intire faith of the Lord Jesus in all points necessary to salvation taught professed and received then is the Church refined and separated from that drosse To bring Infidells from the state of infidelitie to the faith it is necessary that instruction goe before either by reading exhortation preaching or report of Christian faith for faith commeth by hearing But where men professe Christianitie abuses may be reformed by the Edict of the Magigrate without such particular instruction going before as in the former case is requisite Many times * Jo. 2.19 heresie departeth from the Church or Heretickes goe out from the Church and sometimes the Church is compelled to goe out from heresie the heresie still remaining * Revel 18.4 Come out of her my people saith the Lord the godly then departing from Babylon according to Gods commandement gathering themselves into Christian societies the religious Magistrate by his Edict or Proclamation going before them are the true churches of Christ The i Raynold orat epist ad fratrem Non semper heresis exit ab ecclesia aliquando manet heresis ecclesia exire cogitur Papacy was not the church but the church lay hid in the Papacy untill the time of separation which being made according to Gods commandement by the authoritie of the Lords Vicegerent the church which was before k August epist 48. ad Vincent Donatist Ecclesia est quae aliquando obscuratur tanquam obnubilatur multitudine scandalorum obscured doth now shine forth Thus our Divines doe soundly and truely answer to the Papists demanding where our Church was before Luther That it was where now it is but unrefined unstamped that it lay l Beza epist 1. ad Duditium et si Papatun non sit Ecclesia voluit Deus in Papatu servare ecclesiam hid among them for the time as some fit stones for the building under a great heap of rubbish and that we have not erected a new Church but repaired and restored a ruinous m See Dr. Feild of the Church lib. 3. c.