Pastors alwayes exercising their holy function and Gods word in their mouth euer for this Church he doth inquire shewe him this Church and he will trouble you no longer for the rest he shall haue there A third shift is to send him to the primitiue Church and to tell him that indeede then was this communion with all Nations this ample Church which the Scripture doth commend was then but since it decaied and now you are building it againe This iourney were to longe for him he is not able to reade bookes otherwise he would not trouble you nor your Congregation at all for he should easilie find the thing himselfe wherefore that he may be directed by the iudgment of other men better seene in that busines he desires to know which aÌ„d where is the preseÌ„t Catholique Church and by that Church he will be directed about former tymes he desires therefore D. Luther to tell him where the Catholique Church is now for such a perpetuall one the Bible speakes of This question must be answered the man that doth aske it may be any that is in England for example and it might haue bene answered in Lurhers time who was your Master for which reason I tie the question to that tyme for the more perspicuitie and leaue the man with you to answer for your Master 14. Your fellowes finding here no way to flie the question do confesse that the knowne Church of the world in Luthers tyme that which had communion with the Pope was the Catholique Church and labour to finde her in errour and Apostasie So White Field and other of your companions so Luther so Caluin Of errours I will speake hereafter I looke now for the Church only because this is to be found first before we dispute of further matters And thus I vrge That Church which all the world doth say is the catholique church wee likewise Arg. 1 if wee will not be ridiculouslie sensles must beleeue to be the Catholique church as wee must beleeue that is Rome which the world VVee professe the Church of Rome it selfe in all ages to haue ben the visibâ—e Church of God So white Defence c. 41. in the name of his fellowes wee most firmely beleeue all the Churches in the VVorld wherein our Fathers liued and died to haue ben the true Churches of God in which vndoubtedly saluation was to be found Field Church l. 3. c 8 and c. 47. Wee neuer doubted but that the Churches wherein those holy men S. Bernard S. Dominick c. did liue and die were the true Churches of God and held the sauing profession of heauenly truth See him allso in the sixt Chap. of the same Booke Wee confesse that all Christian good is in the Papacie and that from thence it came downe to vs. Luth. Epist cont Anabapt ibid. I say further that in the Papacie is the true Christianitie yea the true kernell of Christianity and vppon the 28. of Genes Wee Confesse the Church to be among the Papists for they haue Baptisme Absolution the text of the Gospell and there are many godly among them Wee deny not that the Churches remaine vnder the Popes tyraenny but they are such as with sacrilegious impietie he hath profaned c. Caluin 4. Inst c. 3. and vppon 2 Thessall 2. he confesseth the Church coÌ„municating with the Pope to be Temple and Sanctuary of God sayth is Rome and that London which the world sayth is London But the whole world sayth that the company of Christians in communion with the See of Rome is the catholique church for so your fellowes so your Masters so wee so Iewes so Pagans and no other can be found wherefore since Gods word and promise of a perpetuall and vniuersall Church must needs be true wee must beleeue that it is this 15. Moreouer the Religion which you call Papistrie is now spred ouer the face of the earth in allmost all Nations and was confessedly the generall Religion of the christian world before Luther for many hundred Arg. 2 yeares together wherefore this Religion is catholique aÌ„d this companie the catholique church of God You answere first that the GreciaÌ„s agreed not with vs. But this makes not for Protestancie And moerouer in your sense it is false for though they haue not beene coÌ„tinuallie in our communion all this tyme yet in this time they haue beene in our communion And so haue the ArmeniaÌ„s aÌ„d others too which is all that I haue said and sufficient for to demonstrate that our communioÌ„ hath beene catholique in the tyme I haue spokeÌ„ of And if you will pleade for theÌ„ that allso their Schisme hath bene somtymes thus catholique I answere as before that Grecisme was neuer generally the faith of Christendome nor any other faith whatsoeuer but that only which wee professe not the Grecian I say not the Aethiopian not the Armenian not the Berengarian the Waldesian the Lutheran the Caluinian none at all and herein the Histories of all Countries and the memories of all Nations beare me witnesse Secondly you say that Mahomet hath seduced a great part of the world and so restrayned the latitude which wee pretend Whereunto I answere first notwithstanding Mahomete and his coÌ„panie that the communion of the christian world hath beene with vs and with no other which is all I desire I answere secondly that our communitie hath gained more in the meane tyme then euer the PagaÌ„ tooke away by an infinite increase both in this old and allso in the newe world Witnesse all those Nations in Europe which haue beene conuerted since that Impostor came besides the dailie and admirable increase in India Iaponia Brasile China and other places You answere thirdlie that all thosâ— worlds of people haue beene in errour But this is impertinent for here I looke only for the church that wee may finde it and when we haue found it we will inquire then whether it hath erred or no. And that this is the Catholique Church is euident because no other is or hath beene in the generall communion of Nations but only this nor euer any for the latitude of communion equall to it 16. I goe now futther and prescribe against you for our church and Religion thus That Arg. 3 Faith which in the Christian world hath beene generally beleeued to be diuine Quod vniuersa tenet Ecclesia nec Concilijs institutum sed semper retentum est non nisi authoritate Apostolica traditum rectissimè creditur S. Aug. l 4. de Bapt. c. 24. and looking vpwards towardes the Apostles tyme no other origen of it can be found is verilie to be beleeued to be such But such is the faith of this coÌ„munitie for it hath beene the generall beleefe of the Christian World as I haue shewed and that no other origen of it can be found I prooue cleerly because whensoeuer you or any other begin later we shewe easilie that it was before And this because you persist without ground in your
haue bene confirmed to Bonifacius by Phocas But this will not hinder my argument for it is one thinge to declare and second an other thing to institute the institution of the Primacie you haue in the Gospell Ma◠〈…〉 18. Io. 21.18 S. Hierom. ep ad Dam Theod. ep ad Renat Presb Sand. Visib Mon. l. 7. Touching the existēcie of our Religion in the tyme of Constantine See more in the Protestant Apol tract 2 c. ◠Sect. 3. the acknowledgment you haue in Antiquitie as I will declare hereafter and the exercise before the tyme of Boniface is well knowne On this Rocke will I build my Church said our Sauiour who commended his flocke peculiarly to S. Peeter I quoth S. Ierom to Damasus then Pope Following none formost but Christ doe communicate with thy Holines that is with the chaire of Peeter Vppon that Rocke I knowe the Church was built And Theodoret a Grecian speaking of that See That holy Seate hath the gouerment of all the Churches in the world You heard before what S. Leo said of it and you knowe how he did exercise this power Only because your fellowes are wōt to obiect a speach of S. Cregorie not content to take the interpretation of it from his owne mouth I put you heare in mind that he did exercise this power ouer all the Christian Churches in his tyme and this you haue noted by D. Sanders in his Monarchie Sand. Visib Mon. l. 7. and not answered yet He shewes there I say out of S. Gregories owne writings how he did exercise the foresaid power ouer the Bysshops and Churches of Italie Sicilie Corsica Sardinia Africke Spaine Ireland England France Dalmatia Greece Corcyra and that the Patriarcks haue confessed Subiection to the Church of Rome Lastly wee haue the confession of your men here cited in this an gument for the generall obedience to the Pope euer since Constantine which is sufficient for this purpose howsoeuer the Grecians might some tymes beare themselues in some occasions of which I am to speake in an other place 23. A seuenth Arg. It is manifest by the scriptures aboue cited that the Catholique Church is perpetuall and cannot faile and Arg. 7 this by Scripture is meant of the visible Church whereof I haue giuen ample demōstration in the begining of this second Booke which I desire the reader to peruse and marke Now there is no Christian Church at all that hath bene petpetuall but this which I speake of Therefore this indiuiduall Church is the Catholique Church To See the truth of that I haue assumed let vs looke vpon the rest The Pagans come not in question because their Church is not Christian nor the Iewes for the same reason though they farre exceede you in this point of perpetuitie The Grecians they were in our communion the first thousand yeares and since haue bene neither was Grecisme beleeued allwaies or euer the faith of Nations and communion with you they haue refused Your Church and Religion hath not bene perpetuall as in the former booke wee haue seene to your griefe Another that can callenge there is not not the Aethiopian nor the Maronite nor any whatsoeuer The Roman hath euer beene and her communion euer bene vniuersall therefore this greate and ample Societie is the true Church of God 24. An eigth Argum. That is the Catholique Church whereūto come all Natiōs ād out of which all Heretiques do goe But into the communion of that companie which I haue Arg. 8 named that is into the communion of the See of Rome and the companie of Christians communicating with it all Nations hetherto haue come and out of it all Heretiques haue gone Therefore this is and hath euer bene the Catholique Church The proposition is cleere by the promises related in the beginīg that all Nations should be conuerted to the Church and her gates be euer open day and night to receiue them c. 1. Is 60. S. Aug. de Sym. 6. l. 1. c. 5. and as for Heretiques it is well knowne that they are boughes lopped of the great vine and that that heresie is a corruption of the true faith The assumption you haue at large in Ecclesiasticall Histories and you denie not but in the Primitiue tyme this companie was the Church Baronius Spondan auctar Iarricius Magdeburg Osiander Pappu◠See Prot. Apol. tr 2. c. 1. s 4. that Nations from Infidelitie were conuerted to it and that Heretikes all went out of the same companie Since vnto the same haue bene conuerted the Germanes Vandalls Polonians Danes Hungarians Noruegians Brasilians Indians and diuers others and to your companie or religion immediatelie from infidelitie no Nation at all Out of the same great companie haue gone all Heretickes since that tyme and among them those who in part were your predecessors Iconoclastes Berengarians Waldenses Albigenses Lollardes Hussites 25. Beare with me if I repeate the same againe Arg. 9 for a nienth argument The Romane See and other congregations in that communion were the Church or the Catholicke Congregation in the tyme of Saint Paul And the same congregation 300. yeares after was still the Catholicke Church and had the communion of the Christian world as you know by the Generall Councell of Nice Into it came Schythiās Iberians Armenians Hunnes and others Out went the Marcionites Nouatians Manichees Arianes Betwixt the fourth and fift age was the Coūcell of Calcedō and in that tyme likewise the foresaid cōmuniō was the Church Catholique ād their communion was with the christian world as by that councell of calcedon ād the Epistles of Leo the great who was President of it all men knowe Into this communion came Scottes French and other Nations Out went Pelagians and Nestorians after whose cōmunion in the Aethiopians you seeme to thirst In the next ages followīg which were the sixt ād seauēth were the Generall assemblies at Cōstātinople One in the tyme of Vigilius being the fifte Generall Councell The other in the tyme of Agatho which you haue in the Tōes of Councelles with most ample subscriptiō of the Bysshops which were in thē and by these Generall councelles which did also receaue the former it is euidēt that in those tymes also the cōpanie of Christians in cōmuniō with the See of Rome was the Catholicke Church ād that the communion of those Popes ād those Coūcelles was with the world of Christians Into it came the Pictes Gothes Barbarians and our Countrie Out were cast the Tritheites Monothelites and other such excrementes After those Councelles Followed others One at Nice in the tyme of Adrian the first Another at Constantinople Adrian the second being then Byshop of Rome By which Councelles it is cleere that the communion of the Roman See was then also generall and this companie the Church of God They did also receaue the former Councelles and noe communion was Generall in Christendome or continued by Vniuersall Succession but onelie this Into this companie came the Frisians Hassites Russians Out
togeather from all places to discusse and to determine Is he moued with Antiquity the Reuerence of elder times is all with vs heere are Gregories and ChrysostoÌ„s and Augustines and Basils and Ephrems and Cyrills and Cyprians and Iustines and others innumerable Is he moued by Gods word it is flatly and vnansweareably on our side Atheists children can answere they erre so grosly against the light of nature The Iewes are forced to see with their owne eies the Prophecies of the Messias and his Kingdome fullfilled in Iesus Christ and his Church And this Church to be the Catholique yeauen that which is now and hath ben euer in the Communion of the Roman See is so cleere that denying of it all Histories all Bookes all Monuments all Memorie must be denied and nothing be confessed for true which euer yet hath beene on earth Denying of it you may allso denie that there was euer Iewish Nation or Roman Emperour or Heathen Idol you may as well deny that Rome Constantinople London are or euer were THE SIXT CHAPTER What meant by a Catholique 52. BEfore I goe on to your Obiections because the place is verie fitte and the thing necessarie to be obserued and borne in minde I will tell you what I meane by a Catholicke which question is here answeared without difficultie You haue seene the Catholique Church that is the congregation of Christians in communion at all tymes with the See of Rome by a Catholique man I meane one who beleeues the Creede of this Church one of this comunion aÌ„d euerie one which did heretofore embrace this communion was a Catholique so long as he did embrace it and died a Catholique if he died in it In the communion with this Church is included a Vnion with it which vnion is founded in a conformitie or vniformitie of faith and iudgment in diuine matters And this was in all those who did resolue their beleefe into the proposition or iudgment of this Church For he who submittes his iudgment whollie to the Church and beleeues as she telles him readie to beleeue more if she declare her selfe more fullie and to condemne all doctrine which she coÌ„demnes is vndiuided from the Church in iudgment and therefore vniforme 53. Hence it comes also that not onelie those who liued at one tyme were of our communion but such also as liued in diuers ages because the following age did receaue the doctrine and generall decrees of the precedeÌ„t beleeuing all which was then by the Church beleeued and condemning such opinions as they condemned By this meanes wee doe also communicate with them all as perfectlie in the disposition of our soule and redines of our vnderstanding as if wee had liued with them HeÌ„ce it is that wee admitte all the Councelles that were generallie receaued by the Church in their tyme and are sufficientlie moued therunto by the iudgmeÌ„t of the Church which then receaued them For wee resolue our iudgment into the iudgment of the Church and that is our rule vnder God who is the prime rule and highest Obiect of our faith You will be readie to make an other vse of some part of this discourse but you cannot for you make your owne choise of that which you beleeue and doe not submitte your iudgment to the iudgment of Gods Church Wee acknowledge diuine assistance in Church-proposition as I haue said before and this doth euery Catholique which is the reason why wee are all of one religion though wee liue at seuerall tymes Out of this comes the Catholique Vnion or vnitie which is most ample reaching into all Nations and through all tymes which kind of vnitie depending on the Churches mouth as on a subordinate cause and rule but principallie on the all-teaching Spiritte directing to reuealed veâ—ities as on an infinite and immoueable principle as hereafter I will shew is peculiar to the Church of God Aske any man of our religion on whose iudgment he relies in matters of faith and he will answeare that he relies on the iudgment of the Church and if you aske further on whom the whole Church of this age hath dependence for exterior proposition of matters of faith I answeare that this whole age resolues it selfe into the precedent age and that into the precedent and so vpwardes to the first which age did resolue it selfe into the Apostle proposition and they resolued their faith into the proposition of our Sauiour who came into the world to this purpose and he Cour Sauiour being the naturall sonne of God did cleerlie behould all truth with an infinite vnderstanding And there staies the resolution hauing made a full compasse and returned thether where this veritie first was For all truth is first in the diuine vnderstanding and thence reuealed manie wayes as it hath pleased that originall goodnes the eternall Father as by prophettes in ould tyme and after by his Sonne Iesus Christ who did instruct his Church and bequeathed an euerlasting assistance to beare in minde and to deliuer truelie this lesson to future ages Hence it came that this instruction or word which he put into her mouth hath not yet gotte out of it nor will to the worldes end 54 I had made a full point and was going on to the next Chapter but I remembred with whom I am now againe dealing and that I am to repeate the same things ouer more then once hauing for the same reason also contented my selfe with verie few things among infinite which might be said for our cause My chiefe intention therefore in this second booke was onelie to declare which companie of people in all the world is the Church Catholique or the Church answearing to Gods eternall decree declared by the Prophets And I haue prooued it to be that companie which is and hath bene euer in the coÌ„munion of the See of Rome This coÌ„panie of Beleeuers is the Church described in Gods word and no other companie distinct from this whatsoeuer it be is the Church there described In the proofe of this I haue taken such grouÌ„ds as are vndeniable as the knowne coÌ„munion of Nations the like being no where found the Testimonie of worlds of people the Confession of the most learned Aduersaries that wee haue or euer had since Luther came The Euidence of generall Councelles and the knowne Opposition of all confessed Heretiques in all tymes to this Church and to no other These grounds or arguments I take so farre only as they are manifestlie vndeniable and no further and to prooue that which your owne fellowes and your Masters doe yeeld vnto aÌ„d though most vnwillinglie haue confessed in their books That is I take them to declare that the Church in communion with the See of Rome is and hath bene euer the Church described by the Prophets and that no other answearable to that description is any where els to be found VVhen you answeare this Booke I will haue no other thing answeared in this place but this Keepe the question all
of their visibilitie But God as I said hath not yet permitted the booke of life to be coppied out and diuulged Iohn 4.23 1. Io. 2.27 109. You obiect first that true worshippers adore in Spirit and truth and vnction teacheth all This is true But those worshippers those ānointed are in the Church they are a part ād the chiefest part of the visible communitie whereof I haue spoken in the second booke they are in the visible fold of Christ Were the Apostles and the rest of their Religion the true Church or no were they was that Bodie that communitie visible or inuisible their sermons were not they heard were not their writings seene went not their sound ouer all the world why then they were visible As for the vnctiō it teacheth the Catholique Church it teacheth men to giue assent to such things as the Apostles then did and their Successors now doe propose They may preach and be heard allso but without vnction the people will not beleeue 1. Cor. 3. Paul planteth and Apollo watereth but God giueth the increase In the same Catholique Church are those adorers in Spirit and in the middest of it the sanctification of God is foreuer The Apostles did they adore in Spirit or no if they did whie may not a visible Church do so if they did not who will beleeue that you do 110. Secondlie you obiect that there are none in the Church but predestinate If you speake of the Church triumphant you say true if you speake of the militant Church it is not so for all those that for a tyme adhere vnto this bodie and are parts of it do not finallie perseuere some are multiplied aboue number and beleeue a while but reuolt and fall of before they die The Church militant is the companie of beleeuers in communion with S. Peeter and his See It is the companie of Catholiques And Catholiques some are in charitie and in the grace of God and are saued some die in mortall sinne some loose their faith at last 1. Tim 1. In the primitiue Church some made shipwracke of their faith as Hymeneus and Alexander saith the Apostle Some do beleeue for a tyme said our B. Sauiour Luk. 8.1 and in tyme of tēptation do reuolt And the Spirit manifestlie saith that in the last tymes certaine shall depart from the faith attending to the Spiritts of errour 1. Tim. 4 Matth. 2 14. Many are called but fewe chosen There are some with wedding garments and some without some wise virgins some foolish some corne some chaffe some vessells of honour some of dishonour some good some bad some predestinate some reprobate in the Church The predestinate will perseuer the rest will not 111. I come now to the second part of this Chapter wherein I am to loosesome tyme in asking a question or two about your dombe-preaching Church about the Saincts of your election about those people which were in all tymes but neuer before Luther and in all Nations before his tyme but no wherein the world And I demand first whether all the rest were like you or no if they were why then were they inuisible You say you are predestinate and yet you are visible notwithstanding your predestination and a member of that Church whie then might not the other men be visible allso euerie one of thē and the whole visible 112. I demaund secondlie whether you do knowe the rest of your Church the rest of your predestinate breethren or whether you knowe none of that Church but your selfe onely ād whether euery one in that Church knowe himselfe onelie and no more If you do not knowe any of them what Societie cā you haue among you what gouerment what forme of a Church If you do knowe any I desire to heare how wee finde not your names in the Scripture the booke of life is not printed with the Gospell 2. Tim. 2.19 Iohn 10.14 wee reade there that our Lord knowes who be his that our greate Pastor knowes his sheepe That you can do it that you can number all his sheepe that you can point them out wee reade not I pray you howe come you to knowe the secret is it by exterior profession that serues not they may dissemble and which is worse for you none professed your religion for 900 yeeres togeather and therefore by profession you knowe none in all that tyme. Neither would an vnfained profession haue serued the turne for euerie one that persuades himselfe that he beleeues is not constant in the faith nor predestinate What then be the certaine markes whereby you knowe your inuisible brethrē that wee may knowe them too or do you not indeed knowe them Remember what hath ben said in the first booke if you knowe them let vs heare the markes the markes of a predestinated Protestant and bringe vs one example any tyme for 900. yeeres before Luther of such a man an example out of questiō a manifest example If you do not knowe them you cannot conferre with them in your difficulties you cannot helpe them in their necessities you cannot meete in Councell as the Apostles and Pastors did in the primitiue Church you cannot haue the face nor the gouerment of a Church 133. I must examine further by your leaue In your Catholique Church of predestinate is there order or confusion are there Pastors ād Doctors and Bysshops or no Bysshops no Pastors no Doctors is there a Hierarchie or not are the preachers and Superintendents seene and heard or how are the things dōne The reason of my demand or doubt is because this Catholique Church of yours is inuisible and therefore it seemes that no man can see the Preacher otherwise many in the companie might see him if not all and so he were visible He allso might see them he preached vnto and so they were visible too and consequentlie the whole companie and the whole Church were visible not inuisible 114. It might seeme by your talke that this holie Congregation of yours hath greate eares and no eies for if they had eies they might then see the Ministers that instructe them they might see their Superintendents Or if they can heare and not see these Ministers their eares reach a greate deale further then their eies But this will not content me neither if yo graunt it for that which may be heard makes a noise and by the noise discouers it selfe if therefore your predestinated Preachers haue made a noise in the world the Christians or Papists liuing with them should haue heard it though they could not see those inuisible men and this at least would be found on record as other wonders are to wit That in all Christian countries there was a Protestant noise ād sermons euerie where in euerie Nation but no preacher seene this would haue bene found in the Chronicles of all countries and some would haue bene so curiouse as to haue noted the points of the Sermons and set downe the doctrine But
time in this world is but short the sunne runnes it ouer with infinite speede and the poste of nature is on the way how neere God only knoweth to giue vs notice of a dissolution wherein each of vs being as it were diuided one half is rendered to the earth to feede wormes the other caried away to the tribunall to heare a sentence of eternitie Happie are those who prizing God solidly aboue all and adhering to him as the fountaine of all good take this iourney with full resignation of their spirit and die in the Churche's armes I send you this booke desiring you to pâ—ruse it I would haue willinglie come my self to haue taken part with you but imployments tieâ— me heere In my youth when I had lost my best frind whose soule rest in peace I lost a greate deale of my time and it seemes almightie God hath so disposed of me that I must now repaire the losse If you find the thing lesse accâ—unte then you might haue expected you knowâ— my excuse When two imployments do meetâ— in a narrow vnderstanding and that but poorely lodged both do suffer Those who laboured in â—epairing the walls of Ierusalem whilst they did worke with one hand were forced in the other to take a sword I fight but with one hand The faults and imperfections heere are mine in the resolution the Catholique world doth agree and you haue the prayers of them all as long as you keepe your selues in their communion You haue also the prayers of all the Saincts in heauen the communion of the Church reaching thither And our Sauiour there doth mediate vnto his Father in your behalf You haue God an aduocate vnto God the Sonne to the Father doe not feare but serue him carefully and he will multiplie his blessings on you and if wee spend the few daies of our peregrination well will bring vs all in the end in to our cuntrey Heauen to the Church of the first borne to the company of many thousands of Angels where there is perpetuall Iubilie where God is all in all Then death shall be no more nor moorning nor sorrow There shall be no more hunger nor thirst neither shall the suâ—ne fall vppon you nor any heate and God vvâ—l wipe away all teares from your eies Fare â—ou well And let vs resigne our selues whollâ— to the blessed will of God and pray each foâ— other that wee may be saued Yours by manifold obligationâ— F. E. THe Quesâ—â—on Where a man is to seeke InstructioÌ„ in matteâ— of Religion The Answere In the Church in Communion with the See of Rome This resoluâ—â—on is heere declared in three Propositions 1. Thâ— Catholique Church is assisted by the Holy Ghost to all â—â—uth the third Booke 2. And is that which is in Commâ—â—ion with the See of Rome the secoÌ„d Booke 3. Not the â—ompany of Protestants the first Booke The Boâ—ke is so little it needeth not an Index in place of oâ—e take this direction God liâ— 2. cap. 4. Incarnation of the second Person Ibid His Church foretould lib. 2. cap. 1. Raised and prâ—pagated lib. 2. cap. 5. Visibile lib. 2. ca. 1. lib 3. ca. 1. 2. 6. Continued till now lib. 2. cap. 2. 3. Thâ— Holy Ghost assisting in it lib. 3. cap. 1. to all Truthe 2. fundamentall and not fundamentall c. 3. The written Doctrine lib. 4. cap. 5. The Vnwritten â—â—b 4. cap. 10. Particular points of her doctrine prâ—ued by text of Scripture lib. 1. cap. 6. Her Iâ—teriour Sanctitie lib. 3. cap. 5. Exteriour acte of diâ—ine worshippe lib. 4. cap. 9. TransubstaÌ„tiation in the Masse cap. 8. Flesh and blood reallie in the Saâ—rament cap. 6. and by Antiquitie so beleeued cap. 7. In the Church Priests and a chiefe Pastour lib. 1. cap. 6. S. Peeter aboue the rest of the Apostles and Pastor of the Church lib. 4. ca. 1. The Pope his Successor and aboue other Bishops cap. 2. President in generall Councells cap. 3. Councells lib. 2. cap. 3. 7. assisted in proposing lib. 3. c. 2. 3 4. lib 4 cap. 10. Who a Catholique lib. 2. c. 6. and lib. 3. cap. 4. Resolution of Faith Ibid. and. li. 3. cap. 4. 5. Answere to Obiections made against Vniuersalitie lib. 2. cap. 7. Sanctitie lib. 3. cap. 5. Visibilitie lib. 3. cap. 6. Succession and Vnitie lib. 2. ca. 7. lib. 3. cap. 4. Infallibilitie lib. 3. cap 5. 7. And against our Doctrine lib. 1. cap. 4. 5. and lib. 4. thoroughout The Protestants are not able to prooue their Religion by Scripture lib. 1. cap. 4. 5. 6. nor by Antiquity cap. 3. They should render account of Predecessors agreeing in all points with them lib. 3. c. 4. but cannot lib. 1. cap. 2. the Waldenses neither were Protestants nor had continuall Succession of their Church from the Apostles lib. 1. cap. 1. The yong Reader may omitte the â— 5. and 6. Chapters of the first Booke To him that hath ministred the occasion of this booke TO one of the two papers which you had from me long agoe you haue shaped as it seemeth a kind of answere yet not an answere neither for you send him that would haue one to looke it in other men that are in print For my part I was not willing at the sight of yours which I espied by meere chaunce and neuer sawe but once to be made an Aprill foole and therefore would not be so farre at your commaund Yet to declare that I was not satisfied Presumed the chiefe question out of which the rest are easilie resolued and disputed it more at large putting downe the conclusions together with their grounds and maintaining them against that which your self or your abettors haue obiected I endeuoured to do this briefly but it so fared with me in this intellectuall businesse as it doth with such as breede the child in the natiuitie is much bigger then at the conception the matter I speake of heere hath an inward inclination to dilate it self and whilst I was writing the discourse prooued a booke VVhere vppon being withall desirous to impart it to my frinds I determined to multiply my coppies by the print when I could spare money to discharge it As I was expecting that opportunitie another occasion arising out of the late persecution solicited me to let it without more delay come abroade and I haue yeelded thereunto though not without diffitcultie I will not addresse the thing particularly against you partly because I dispute also against others with whom I haue exchanged some papers as I did with you and am willing if it may be to be heard where they are partly because your discourse was not a direct answere to that I sent and a posting direction of half a sheete of paper had beene as much as in way of reply it could deserue from me or any other You had handled the matter so that indeede I doubed whether I were the man you meant by the name there put downe
q. 5. c. 17. The Scripture Isay 59 2â— My words that I haue put in thy mouth shall not depart out of thy Mouth and out of the mouth of thy seede and out of the mouth of the seede of thy seede saith our lord from this present and for euer The same place your brother Puritan doth allso contradict in denying a perpetuall visible Church Wee beleeue that the Church is assisted by the holy Ghost to all truth You say No And so do all Hereticks Our Sauiour in the Scripture Io. 14.16 16. v. 13 I will giue you another Paraclete that he may abide with you for euer the Spirit of Truth he shall teach you all truth 55. Thus I am come in fine to the first againe which doth confirme all the rest RemeÌ„ber what I said in the begining of this Chapter in so much that what I haue here shewed in the last place out of Scripture doth prooue that the Church doctrine deliuered by word of Mouth is all true whether it be written downe in the Bible or be not for these places of Tradition by word the word of God euer in the mouth of the Church and the Spirit suggesting and teaching all truth are not limitted in the Scripture to writing as in the text you see And therefore now I repeate my argument made in the begining of this Chapter If the Scripture doth formallie auouch our doctrine and denie yours in the maine points wherein wee differ Arg. it is euidentlie vnpossible for you or any man breathing to make it euident by the Scripture that the Apostles and primitiue Church were of your Religion not of ours or that yours is true ours false But the Scripture doth auouch our doctrine and denie yours in the maine pointes wherein we differâ— as I haue showne Therefore it is euidently vnpossible for you or any man breathing to make it euident by the Scripture that the Apostles and primitiue Church were of your religion not of â—urs or that yours is true ours false 56. Now since your doctrine is thus contrary to Gods word and consequentlie your spirit being rubde vppoÌ„ this tuchstone being found to be counterfait it were not amisse to looke about from whence you had your doctrine and whence your Spirit came Which thing I could finde out without much adoe and would set downe here but that I haue allreadie bene to longe I will therefore onely \ shewe you the way to finde it and so conclude Looke out the place where Gods commandements are neuer kept but esteemed vnpossible where all actions are sinnes and sinnes neuer remitted or wiped cleane away where there is no Indulgence or remissioÌ„ of any paine due to sinne no works of supererogatioÌ„ acknowledged no state of perfectioÌ„ no Merit of works no Libertie to doe well no prayer for the deade no Communion with saincts in heauen nor prayers made vnto them where Priestlie function is abhorred holy Sacrifice blasphemed and the very Images of Christ and his Saincts loathed and detested Where there is no Iustice inherent no constant rectitude or infallibility of iudgment no coÌ„tinual Visibilitie of sacred Profession no Vnitie in Religion but a confused admittance of all that are against the Catholique of Wicklefists and Hussites Luther doth confesse it in his Booke de missa pri tom 7. fol. 228. VVittemb a. 1558. See Luthers life by Mr Brereley câ— 1. â— 2. and Arians and Athiests aÌ„d all people that will obstinatly refuse confession of their Sinnes works of pietie and the common Creede and make theÌ„selues their owne wittes the Iudge of all looke out this place aÌ„d the rest you will finde there I haue heard and reade and doe beleeue that the spirit which instructed Luther your Master came from thence The Conclusion THe protestants are not able to giue satisfactioÌ„ in the Question of the Church whereby as allso by their Opposition to the Scripture and Antiquitie it is manifest that theirs is not the true Religion which or where else soeuer the true Religion be THE SECOND BOOKE WHEREIN IS DECLARED which is the true Church THE FIRST CHAPTER Shewing by authoritie of holy scripture that the true Christian Church is Catholike for tyme and place 1. SINCE your Church cannot be prooued to be Catholicke or vniuersall in regard of a generall communion which the world and perpetuall visibilitie you pretend there is no necessitie of any such latitude of place or tyme and would perswade vs that it is Catholique for doctrine because it holds the three Creeds with Baptisme aÌ„d the Supper and is not tied to one tyme or Nation but such as may be in any which you call negatiue vniuersalitie for tyme and place and for doctrine positiue Thou seemest to speake acutelie said S. Augustine to Vincentius a man of the Rogation Heresie and your Master in the way of defending your Religion as it seemes when thou doest interprete the name Catholique S. Aug. ep 48 by the obseruation of all diuine Precepts and all Sacraments and not of the communion of the whole world c. but indeed the thing which thou doest indeuour to persuade vs is that onelie Rogatians haue remained who are rightlie to be called Catholiques by the obseruation of all the diuine lawes and all Sacraments and that you onelie are the men in whom the sonne of man may finde faith when he comes Pardon vs wee beleeue it not And afterwards in the same Epistle you are with vs in baptisme in the Creede in the rest of our lords Sacraments In the spirit of Vnitie and in the band of peace and finallie in the Catholique church you are not with vs. As that Rogatian so you in your interpretation would seeme acute but vnto such onelie as neither knowe Scripture nor the state of the Question It is true that the doctrine of the true Church is perfect and the Obiect of her faith entire in it selfe but in your books and beleefe it is mangled and diuided so that part onelie is there allowed as hereafter shall appeare The Question is not here about that but about the Church that is about a certaine congregation of men and about the Vniuersalitie of such a Congregation not negatiue as you would haue it but positiue of tyme and place And because you admit not a positiue vniuersalitie that is a being of the Church in all Nations and in all tymes I will demonstrate vnto you by Scripture the Vniuersalitie of the true Church which soeuer it be whether the Roman or any other of which further point I will not dispute in this Chapter And allthough the scripture be full of testimonies for this vniuersalitie I will alleadge a fewe onelie aÌ„d those in order out of Moyses the Psalmes Prophets and Gospell which being well looked into will suffice 2. But first lest you rhinke you are to open your eies to looke on a Church and it inuisible by reason that in the Creede wee beleeue the Church
all tymes it hath had because the Romaine See or Bisshop as I haue shewed hath communicated with all those Councelles and the communion of each of those Councelles was vniuersall in the tyme wherein it was held by reason of the Nations and kingdomes from whence those Bysshops came which is set downe at large in Baronius And by this wee see cleerlie the greate amplitude of Goâ—â— Church wherof the Prophettes did speake whom in the begining of this booke I haue cited Neither is there any other Christian communion that can equall it all this tyme or is any way answearable to the description there putte downe I would goe Further yet and put your eie to it as it hath bene in each tyme but it is not necessarie to take the paines a generall viewe was all I did inteÌ„d aÌ„d this I haue exhibited The Catholicke Church is seene and knowne by her Vniuersalitie in Tymes aÌ„d Nations this Vniuersalitie is seene in the Generall communion of Christian Churches this generall communion is seene in Generall Councelles and these Councelles you may looke on when you will Hereafter I will examine whether this indiuiduall Church whereof I haue spoken hath diuine assistance and how farre but here I abstract from that question and if you graunt this to be the Catholicke Church as of necessitie you must I haue all I intend in this booke And for this purpose onelie haue brought these fewe motiues omitting infinite others which euerie where you may finde 30. For that which I haue alleaged out of Councells I neede say no more it is their communion onelie which here I vrge and the Tomes of Councells I suppose you haue in your librarie Of the truth of their doctrine I will speake afterwards If you will goe Further yet and see all the Bysshopricks of the Church Notitia Episcopat Aub. Miraei either in elder tymes or now take Miraeus and reade them there and marke allso in him those which are erected since the discouerie of the newe world If you will See the particular demoÌ„stratioÌ„ of each poiÌ„t of our faith out of Antiquity and coÌ„sequentlie the consent of the world in our Religion and cause from the Apostles tyme to this day looke in Cocciê° who hath taken the paines to declare it in two large Tomes and there are vndoubted Authors of euerie age though here aÌ„d there may be some allso which are not vndoubted works which the learned ad such as do write coÌ„trouersie are to discerne it being sufficient for his purpose to haue digested in that sort what he had reade Collat. doctr Cath ac Prot. cuÌ„ expr script verb. If you will See the consent of our Church and her doctrine to Gods word and your opposition to it reade the conference of my Lo. of Chalcedon If you desire to knowe the signes and markes of the true Church and in which and how in particular they are verified reade Bosius you haue it there And finallie if your desire be to see the Acts and Monuments of our Church in particular from yeare to yeare you haue them in Baronius who hath made in this kinde an ocular demonstration of it and thereby of our Church In the former Booke you had other proofes of our Church and in the next you shall haue more for the points which I handle in these three Bookes are connected and vnited so that one maintaines the other And you will finde the Bookes so to conspire against you that when you thinke you haue answeared any one of them the other two will oppose them selues to your answeare and saue me in the iudgment of an intelligent reader the labour of writing any more When you are about your answeare if you will needes be answearing and are thinking with your selfe how I may oppose it out of the grounds laid downe in these three Bookes you will guesse whether I haue spoken within my compasse and if you spend your iudgment more suddainlie your conscience I beleeue will then retract it THE FOVRTH CHAPTER The Iewes reiected 29. I Care not if I leaue you now consideriÌ„g what I said in the last chapter whilst I looke Further into more remote tymes on the begininges of our Church Dispute I neede not because neither the times present nor the persons into whose hands this will come doe require it and the cause doth contayne such an argument of truth that simply to relate ours is to refute others and a relatioÌ„ serues my turne for the coÌ„nection of my discourse In all Nations and at all yeauen the most obscure tymes it hath beene a generall notion a faith transcendent a common and most constant Principle that there is a Deitie soe fathers taught their children so Philosophers did prooue in schooles soe the worlds variety and order and beautie and maiestie did proclaime abroade No man so simple but knowes he hath a cause and each being of the same nature all the species all mankinde hath a cause Each subordinate cause hath a cause and the collection of subordinate and depending causes doth argue the existencie of a higher power supereminent vnto the collection on which power they all depend which efficient being none of the dependant causes is whollie without a cause and therefore hath of it self an infinite necessitie in Being and in all that appertaynes thereunto Moreouer because infinite in existencie and Being all wisdome all power all perfection is in it and this immateriall intellectuall immoueable omnipotent all-commaundinge Creatour wee call God who as he doth vnspeakeablie exceede all so is he in like manner incomprehensible of all and liues eternallie in the height and fullnes of blisse comprehending aÌ„d enioying his owne substaÌ„ce which is the roote and fountaine of existencie the originall and vniuersall veritie infinite wayes infinite and a most pure and holy Goodnes vnbounded euery way 30. Heere the Atheist a man that intricates himself in Circles and infinities to denie that which he cannot auoid God will interrupt my discourse and except that all subordinate efficieÌ„t causes depeÌ„d not vppon any determinate thing because they may either ruÌ„ne the rounde or ascende euer without an end This fellowe lookes in tyme to begette his father aÌ„d exchang relatioÌ„s with him and to be AdaÌ„s great grandfather infinite tymes and as many times more Adams sonne But his ignorance is verie childish Each man hath a cause as I said aÌ„d therefore the whole nature or species hath a cause for if any had not he weare not of the same species or nature with the rest he weare not a pure man The whole collection or multitude therefore of men the verie nature and the species doth depend on some cause efficieÌ„t which likewise dependeth on an other or is independent and immoueable if independent and immoueable it hath Being by it self preciselie without any cause condition or contingencie what soeuer and therefore hath a pure vnlimited and so an infinite necessitie in Being and this is God If the
them This is a succession because they were not all at one tyme and a Catholique succession because the communion of Nations was with them and with their faith and their Decrees 61. Other obiections you haue against the truth of the doctrine which this Church doth maintaine But the chiefest of them are allready answeared in another place And hereafter I will proue at large that the Catholique Church onelie hath the assistance of the all teaching Spiritte and therfore cannot be condemned of errour by any meanes extant in the world whatsoeuer noe iudgment being of greater or of equall authoritie with hers by reason of the Spiritte which doth teach her all truth The second Conclusion The Christians in Communion with Vrbanus VIII are the Church of God THE THIRD BOOKE OF DIVINE ASSISTANCE THE FIRST CHAPTER Proouing diuine Assistance in the Catholike Church 1. HAVING declared sufficientlie which is the Church it followes next that wee speake of the diuine assistance in beleeuing and teaching which assistance the sonne of God hath promised vnto it Catholiques as I haue said before doe resolue their iudgment into the iudgment of the Church and the iudgment of the Church doth relie vppon the assistance of the holie Ghost by whose prouidence it is preserued from erring in the pâ—oposition of diuine faith This assistance in Church-proposition wee beleeue and that you must also grant and beleeue it I am now to prooue You will not denie that men are to be instructed trulie in faith an diuine matters for how shall they liue as Christians ought vnles they beleeue rightlie and how shall they beleeue rightlie if they be not well taught and instructed how shall they inuocate saith the Apostle in whome they haue not beleeued Rom. 10.14 and how shall they beleeue in whoÌ„ they haue not heard or how shall they heare without a preacher it cannot be For no man of himselfe is able to finde out or to discouer the mysteries of our faith the Trinitie the Incarnation of the Sonne of God the Scriptures and their meaning It is therefore necessarie that men be instructed in matters of faith 2. And since instruction is necessarie as wee also by experience know this instruction must be looked for in some Schoole and from some masters or instructors The question therefore comes presentlie about this teaching Schoole which and where it is that a man there may be instructed To this question the answeare is easie first it is not the companie of Athiests or Pagans for their doctrine and instruction is not holie and diuine Secondlie it is not the companie of Iewes for their doctrine is not Christian Thirdlie it is not the companie of confessed Heretiques therefore it is the Church for the Church is the Schoole of Iesus Christ and which this is I haue declared in the former booke This supposed I reason thus for diuine assistance 3. It belongs to the prouidence of allmightie God to assist that Schoole in which by his will and ordinance the whole world is to be instructed in diuine matters and Religion Therefore it belongs to Gods prouidence to Arg. 1 assist the Church for the Church is the said Schoole as I declared before The argument is cleere and needs no further confirmation but least you seeke to escape it if it be vrged by one that is no Scholler with some fonde distinction I note here that the Spirit doth assist to beleeue and to teach The first of these acts is in the vnderstanding and interior the second is publique or exterior and in the mouth The Spirit doth assist the Church both wayes that is to beleeue and to teach but the argument doth proceede here of assistance to the later to teach because faith according to S. Paul doth suppose instruction or teaching aÌ„d euery one should haue faith for without faith it is impossible to please God and he that beleeueth not shall be condemned Hebr. 11. Mar. 16. Moreouer you knowe that for resolution in diuine matters it is necessarie that a man knowe where to seeke instruction whom he may securelie followe in whose iudgment he may rest in whome and where the Spirit of God doth speake This is the thinge wee looke for and this thing is in noe other companie but the Schoole of Iesus Christe the Church 4. It may be you will say that a man desirous of instruction should come to you But this will not satisfie for what should a man haue done before Luther when Protestants were not nor your Religion thought vppon as I haue seene allreadie in the first booke He might haue gone ouer all the world to looke for your Church and lost his labour But deale plainlie with vs and declare your minde is there any congregation in the world whose instruction one may securelie fellowe or no if there be not what course should vnlearned men take to learne the truth shall they beleeue without preachers If there be which is it and whence hath it that it may be followed of it selfe or from the Spirit you can answeare nothinge but the Spirit and this Spirit not in Athiests nor in Iewes nor in confessed Heretiques but in the Church And thus much for those who seeke instruction 5. I prooue secondlie this assistance by the necessitie of a Iudge to determine controuersies Arg. 2 in matter of Religion Since the Scripture is obscure in many places and since Heresies do and must arise in the world it is necessarie that there be some Visible meanes able and sufficient to determine controuersies which meanes can be no other but the proposition and iudgmeÌ„t of the Church For being visible and intelligent able to heare examine and define the controuersies it must needs consist of men not of meere Spirits or of insensible creatures and if it consist of men these men must not be Athiests or enemies to the Christian doctrine such as are Pagans Iewes and confessed Heretiques and therefore they must be the Church or that part of it which is to teach The iudge of controuersies therefore is the Church Whence it followes that the holie Spirit doth assist her in this act of determining controuersies in matter of faith directing her vnderstaÌ„ding to coÌ„ceaue the meaning of Gods word and preseruing her from errour in the proposition of it This discourse you cannot denie with any shewe of probabilitie for there is no meanes to make an end of controuersies among men if the iudgment of the Church be neglected or be not certaine aÌ„d infallible if the Spirit of truth be not in the Church it is in none at all if it doth not teach the Church it doth teach none if it doth not direct the Church to vnderstand Gods word it directeth none if it doth not assist the Church when she for the generall good of the Christian world doth determine a controuersie of faith it doth assist none at all for all the promise made by our Sauiour Iesus Christ of assistaÌ„ce is made vnto
out of the Arg. 1 words of our Sauiour Iesus Christ who promised faithfullie to send the holy spiritte vnto the Church to assist it Ioh. 14. v. 15.16 16. Ch. v 13 I will aske my father aÌ„d he will giue you another Paraclete that he may abide with you foreuer the Spiritte of truth he shall teach you all truth Here the spiritte is promised to the Church foreuer to assist her to all truth what could be said plainer The like God before promised vnto the Church and called it his couenant Isa 59.21 to wit that the words which he putte into her mouth should neuer out of it And herevppon the Apostles beleeued that they had diuine assistance and affirmed their act and decree Acts 15.28 to be the act and decree of the holie Ghost as you reade in the Actes of the Apostles Stay here and consider well what you will do in this case if you deny the assistance you deny the word of God if you graunt it the cause is ours 23. That you may seeme to answeare you will say euer something and the more intricate it be the better it serues your turne Forsooth you graunt Assistance of the Spirit least you be seene directlie to contradict Scripture but you denie that the Church hath it The Church you saie may mistake the sense of Scripture and was mistaken many hundred yeeres together but the spirit directs you to to it your Apostle Luther and you haue hit it now at last Sillie men what are you what ground haue you for diuine assistance by what letters Patents from Gods priuate CouÌ„cell can you make this good Our Sauiour Iesus Christ hath promised the assistance of the Spiritte vnto the Church and this promise is recorded in the Scripture This holdes not you saie he hath bethought himselfe better and recalled it and made a later and an irreuocable firme promise vnto you If you be not impostors let vs see it if you showe it not as you cannot for God is God and it not chaÌ„ged you knowe what men are to thinke in such a case 24. But whie would you rob the Church of God of her legacie she doth inherite lawfullie this assistance it was bequeathed her by Iesus Christ she hath vndeniable writings to shewe for it she hath had possessioÌ„ of it longe agoe Sixteene hundred yeares she hath enioyed it It is to late for you now to commence your sute Goe first and prooue that you are the Catholique Church that the communion of Nations and of the auncient Fathers aÌ„d of the Martyrs and Saints of God haue bene with you Produce your Succession of Pastors continued euer from S. Peter bringe to light your Generall Councells which yet neuer sawe the light name the Nations you haue conuerted vnto the faith let vs heare of your miracles let vs see how the ould Prophecies all doe meete and are verified in your Church When these things are done and so well done that the world sees cleerlie your Church and not ours to be the Catholique Church then begin your sute and not now for your beggarie and want of title and imposture is yet beleeued or rather seene and felt of all the Christian world 25. If wee coÌ„sider only those whoÌ„ your selues do confesse to haue beene Heretickes heretofore you must confesse likewise that they were not Heires vnto the promises Iesus Christ made vnto his Church among which promises one was of perpetuall assistance For this promise or legacie was made and bequeathed by our Sauiour vnto his Church and confessed Heretiques were not the Church and flocke of Christ It rests therfore that you graunt that Church to inherite this legacie which is the true Church and not confessedly hereticall and false whether this Church be yours or ours This is euident Now further it is euident by the former bookes that the true Church is not yours but ours therfore the diuine assistance is in ours not in yours And this I would haue you to marke diligentlie turne downe the lâ—â—fâ— to the end I neede repeate it no more That is whensoeuer the question is about the Spiritte looke that you doe not challenge it vntill you haue prooued that yours is the Church for there is in holie Scripture no promise made of the Spiritte but vnto the Church And the like I doe saie to your fellowes either a parte or all together either moderne or more auncient if they will haue me beleeue that they haue the Spiritte of Iesus Christ let them prooue that they are the Church Neither doe I care whether the controuersie they pretend to determine by the spiritte be fundamentall or not fundamentall for I harken to no spiritte but to that in the Church therfore I say againe if they will haue me beleeue them let them prooue that they are the Church and bring such euidence as I haue demaunded heretofore which will neuer be as longe as the Scriptures and Histories are extant THE SECOND CHAPTER Wherin the last of the precedent arguments is vnfolded more at large 26. IT greeues you much that in the former Chapter I saie the diuine assistance was bequeathed vnto the Church and much you frette against me for it but cannot mend your selfe For that which I said is there prooued many waies It is a tedious thing to preach to those who shutte their eares when the word of God is deliuered who haue eies but will not see I must speake lowder yet and repeate the same ouer againe and againe that this sacred and transcendent truth of diuine assistaÌ„ce may by the operation of Gods grace enter into your sowle which errour possessing hath made deafe and dull to Gods word To runne ouer all againe would take more tyme then I can spare I will therfore inculcate the last argument onelie wherein are three texts of Scripture for assistance combined and connected all in one which I will here propose distinctlie In the first the diuine assistance is promised by God the father and I will produce the couenant In the second our Sauiour Iesus Christ doth bequeath it vnto the Church and I will bringe the words of his will registred by an Apostle In the third the confessed Church of Christ doth acknowledge the receipt of this assistance which is to be for euer hers To beginne with the first I argue thus 27. If the words of God which no doubt are the sacred truth for God speakes no lies be allwaies in the mouthes of the Pastors of Gods Church by vertue of Gods promise and prouidence this Church hath in this diuine Assistance But the words of God are allwayes in the mouthes of the pastors of Gods Church by vertue of Gods prouidence and promise therfore the Church hath in this diuine Assistance The proposition is cleere and includes proofe sufficient within it selfe because if Gods couenant and prouidence effect this thing wee speake of God effects it and is the cause of it The AssumptioÌ„ the prophet Esay
in the Primitiue Church neither be they all saincts at this day Many are called fewe chosen Good ād bad are mingled here The spouse is blacke ād faire In the Churches decrees there is no errour against faith no rule against manners Her rule is irreprehensible being the rule of Christianitie And when any thing is amisse in mens cariage or behauiour towards God or man she doth admonish and punish as occasion requires Hence haue come all those decrees of reformation made in Councells generall and particular which you haue seene more then once In an infinite number to haue some disorders is incident and wee were foretould that scandalls should be Mat. 18. But consider further that this Church hath an infinite cōpanie of holie men likewise and that all which arriue to glorie shall haue liued in this Church Apoc. 7. and those of all tribes tongues and Nations For this very Church though not according to all the materiall parts shall triumphe as I haue said in an other place and in state of triumphe shall be all faire and all ouer without spot she shall be without actuall or originall or veniall sinne when she comes with open eies to looke the prime veritie in the face and to embrace the diuine goodnes with all the latitude of her soule THE SIXT CHAPTER Of the Protestant multiplication of Churches by visible and inuisible 68. IN this place before I conclude I haue a word more to say about your distinction of visible and inuisible I thought once to make it a Chapter in the first booke one of your greate leaps when you are pursued ending in it From Luthers Schoole you skip into Waldoes from thence you thrust your selues on vs from vs to the Church primitiue and from the primitiue Church you get quite out of the eies of the whole world and betake your selues to Inuisibilitie In regard I there pursued you I thought I say to speake allso of the distinction there But the thinge will be more easie now because in many places as occasions were offered I haue discoused of the * He that desires to see more of the Visibilitie of the Church shall find it exactly handled and the Protestant euasions all cleerely refuted by L. my of Chalc. in his booke de auctorae essentia Protestantica Ecclesia l. 2. c. 6. seqq Visibilitie of Gods Church The Church of Gods is one and visible as the Scripture doth witnes Yet you with two words visible and inuisible haue made a distinction to rend it into two and do maintaine stoutlie that God hath two Churches one inuisible consisting of predestinate persons onelie The other visible which doth exteriorlie professe the faith 99. The whole companie of the faith full may be deuided into two parts by God allmightie the one part is predestinate the other part is the companie of those which are not predestinate By this the whole is sufficientlie deuided for euerie man in the companie belongs to one part or member of the diuision and no man belongs to both For you cannot affirme two contradictories of the same as to say Peeter is predestinated and Peeter is not predestinated This being so I demaund now which of these companies is visible and which inuisible And what makes the one to be so rather then the other If predestination make men inuisible whie doth not reprobation make men inuisible since reprobation is a secret as hard to knowe If profession of the faith make the reprobate visible whie can not profession make the predestinate men visible And if these companies be together mingled why are they not both visible or both inuisible or rather whie is not the whole companie visible by reason of the profession and communion though Gods disposition towards this and that man in particular be inuisible and secret 100. Wee beleeue that the whole companie of Catholiques is the Church as I haue declared larglie heretofore Wee beleeue that the predestinate are in this companie that they die all of them in the communion of the Church and that here they professe their faith This I will declare brieflie and then I will be so bould as to demand some questions touching your inuisible congregatiō for looke on it I may not because it is not to be seene 101. First therefore if the thing be well considered it is manifest that the predestinate doe professe their faith and thereby do manifest themselues to be the seruants of Iesus Christ and this allso our Sauiour Christ requireth of his seruants Matth. 10.32.33 euery one that shall confesse me before men I allso will confesse him before my father but he that shall denie me before men I will denie him before my father which is in heauen Euerie one that confesseth me before men the sonne of man allso will confesse him before the Angells of God Luke 12. v. 8.9 But he that denieth me before men shall be denied before the Angells of God Herevpon the Martyrs of Iesus Christ which haue bene at all tymes and whereof all Christian Nations haue yeelded store haue openlie in the face of persecution made profession of their faith and thereby they were visible and being Martyrs were allso members of the predestinated Church they were predestinate The predestinate therefore and the visible professors of the faith may be in one and the same Church yea the same man may be predestinate and allso visiblie professe the faith 102. Secondlie it is manifest that the Apostles were visible professors of the faith and therefore members of the visible Church of God and they were allso predestinate and therefore mēbers of the predestinate Church The same men therefore may be visible and predestinate The same Church may be visible and predestinate and consequentlie visibilitie and predestinatiō deuide not the Church into two Churches As I said of the Apostles and Martyrs so I say of the holie Doctors of the Church they did preach and teach visiblie they were knowne farre and neere and were ptedestinate allso whereby it is manifest that the predestinate did professe their faith the same faith with other Catholiques with others in their communion and were visible 103. Thirdlie the Apostolique Church is visible it includes essentiallie publique persons As Apostles and their Successors Apostolicall men for conuersion of Nations Bisshops Pastors Doctors as you knowe by Scripture Now these publike persons are manifestlie visible Pastors to their flocke Bisshops to their Diocese Apostles and Apostolicall men to the Nations they conuert The Apostolicall Chutch therefore is visible And you knowe further that the holie Catholique and Apostolicall Church are one and the same for so it is in the Creede I beleeue one holie Catholique and Apostolicall Church Symb. Cōstant and this Creede you professe that you beleeue ād you put it allso amonge the fundamentalls of your faith The Catholik therefore and holy Church is visible 104. Fourthlie if the Church be the mysticall bodie of Iesus Christ and
it hath beene so farre from this that for a thousand yeares together there was a deepe sileÌ„ce in the world and no Protestant sermon heard yea Luther did verie earnestlie listen after such a sermon Luth. de Missa prâ—uata ton 7. but his learned eares could heare none saue onelie from the diuell one and that indeed he hath registred in his writings 115. Hauing entred into the consideration of your inuisible Church I will be bould to looke about me where are your Superintendents how do they exercise their office without being seene Your Ministers of this Church who creates them and how is euerie one a minister or some sheepe and some pastors how do you knowe the pastors from the sheepe the ministers from other men are all Apostles 1. Cor. 12. v. 28.29 are all prophets are all Doctors are all miracles haue all the grace of cures do all speake with toÌ„gues do all interprete who do who doe not how may one knowe how do you knowe v. 27. S. Paul saith some verily God hath set in the Church first Apostles secondlie Prophets thirdlie Doctors next miracles then the graces of doing cures helpes gouerments kinds of tongues Are these things in the inuisible Church and if they be not there how is it the Catholique Church are there tongues in that deepe silence is there gouerment in that confusion are there helpes and cures where no man seeth anothers wants and miseries miracles and none wonder Doctors and no Schollers Prophets and Apostles and no preaching of the word Where are the pulpits where are your communion tables how are the collectioÌ„s made do you meete onelie in the night or in the daie or not at all what calles you together if you meete a signe that may be seene a sound that might be heard and you might be found which is against the nature of a Church inuisible Your assemblies for a thousand yeares together how were they made and where or did none preach all that tyme did no Bisshops gouerne did all beleeue and so long and so ordinarily without preachers how could that be how could your people inuocate in whom they beleeued not how could they beleeue whom they heard not and how could they heare without a preacher Answere for your Church and teach S. Paul something which he knewe not If you admit gouermeÌ„t aÌ„d instruction and order in that Church you grant it to be visible for these things are visible If you denie them you cannot shewe how those your imagined predecessors had any faith and were a Church militant So that you puzzle your owne selfe in this busines and are ouer come without an aduersarie 116. I note it therfore for a particular weakenes in your braine that determining to feine a Church of predecessors you had not so much wit as to inuent a thinge which did not infold a contradiction in it selfe as this doth for being inuisible it hath no preachers for preachers are visible things now where there are no preachers there is no faith where there is no faith there is no Church the Church being a Congregation or Societie of faithfull people therefore in making a Church inuisible you make the same thinge to be a Church and no Church Againe there are no Saincts where there is no sanctitie there is no sanctitie where there is no faith no faith where there is no preaching no preaching where the is no mission Rom. 10.15 no mission where there is no gouerment no gouerment where there are no gouerners And in an inuisible coÌ„panie there are no gouerners therefore froÌ„ the first to the last there are in it no Saincts Notwithstanding it hath nothing else you say but Saincts So that it hath people in it it is a Societie of Saincts if wee beleeue you and yet hath not a Sainct in it which is another contradiction 117. Moreouer this Church of yours hath preached continuallie Protestantisme in all Nations because in all Nations you haue had Saincts if your imagination be admitted and sanctitie is grounded in faith He that â—hall be ashamed of â—â—me and of my words him the sonne of man shall be ashamed of When he â—hall come â—n his Maâ—esty Luke 9. â—6 faith gotten by hearing as I said before yet all this tyme she hath not spoken but was ashamed of her owne faith Now how these two hange together do you iudge If you thinke I doe you wronge in accusing your Church of silence take in hand againe the Argument of the first booke produce euidence of anie one man yours or ours frind or foe ChristiaÌ„ Turke or Athiest that euer heard a Protestant speake in any place of all the world a rome wide ynough in any part of fifteene hundred yeeres before Luther a tyme longe inough or euer since the begining of the world if you would haue a longer space and though this will not serue for a Church of all NatioÌ„s yet will it shewe that you know something more then all your fellowes and that you haue profited a little since you wrotte last As for the credibilitie of your deuice they will beleeue yet another Gospell on your bare word against all the euidence in the world that beleeue this conceipt of yours and euerie yonge Logician that hath heard his master talke of Chimeraes can make as good and ground them as solidlie as you doe for euerie child knoweth that the Church militant is a Societie of men seruing God which men are not meere Spirits but things visible the Societie of theÌ„ allso is a thing visible teaching baptizing ruling conuerting Nations confuting Heresies are visible acts In nullum nomeÌ„ Religionis seu verum seu falsum coagulari homines possunt nisi aliquo signaculorum vel Sacramentorum visibilium consortio colligeÌ„tur S. Aug. li. 19. cont Faust c. 11. and acts of the Church of God Man oweth vnto God visible acts of worshippe and not inuisible only praise sacrifice Sacraments are visible things the word of God is visible yea God comming to raise this Church did exhibite himself heere visible God himself was seene with mens eies as I told you in the second booke and if you be a Christian you beleeue it The Church which you speake of being inuisible can be no Societie and therefore no Church And as it is no Church but a Chimericall non ens so the acts of it proportionablie be negatiue it hath conuerted no Nations it hath confuted no Heresies it hath brought vp no Saincts Before Luther it was in no place it administred no Sacraments it made no Sermons It had no conscience no mouth no face 118. Vnworthie therefore is this fiction of yours to be compared to the Church of God these imaginarie Saints of yours to the Saints of Allmightie God these dombe preachers to the Apostles of Iesus Christ and their Successors this vnsociable societie not daring to appeare or whisper a fore men for many huÌ„dred yeeres to that Church which hath
what you list you set vppon the Pastor It is defined in the Councell of Florence that the Bisshop of Rome is successor to sainct Peeter and that he hath receaued in him sainct Peeter from our Sauiour power to feede and to gouerne the whole Church This is one of the things which you cannot abide a Superiour you thinke is a heauie burden ād therefore you would shake him of The Apostles say you were according to Cyprian equall in honour and dignitie Cypr. de vnit Eccl. Ieron adu Iou. Leo ep 84. The strength of the Church was equallie established on them all in the opinion of Hierom and with Leo they had a likenes in honour This is the first onset wherein you shewe neither skill nor iudgment You had but latelie discharged all the Fathers for vnable men and therefore it was an vnaduised part in you now to summō them to fight vnder your colours for you may iustlie feare that in tyme of tryall they will declare themselues to be ō our side who haue euer reuerēced and defended thē ād not on yours where they and the Church authoritie and the Spirit of Gods Church are dis-esteemed and contemned 3. But I answeare that before S. Peeter was made Pastor the Apostles were all equall after he was made Pastor they were not equall S. Peeter was then chiefe ād Superior The rest of the Apostles had power giuen them to preach the Gospell to forgiue sinnes to binde ād loose to doe miracles but onelie S. Peeter had the prerogatiue of Pastor as the Scripture doth euidentlie declare And heereby he was otherwise compared vnto the flocke then any of the rest ◠c. 6. n. 52 with whom he had all the forenamed but excelled in this that they being Legates or Apostles onely in regard of their generall iurisdiction he was Pastor of the Church This is the doctrine of those Fathers which you haue cited as you may see in their books and to saue you the labour of looking further I will shewe it in the very same places you alleage The Church saith S. Ierom is founded on Peeter S. Ieron adu Iouin ◠1. though in another place it be donne vpon them all and all receiue the keyes of heauen and the strenght of the Church be equallie establisshed vppon all These things were equallie donne before S. Peeter was made Pastor they were all equallie made Apostles and foundations and had equallie the keyes but afterwards of these Apostles thus equall one was created Pastor the rest remaining as they were who remained therefore vnequall to this one which was Peeter 10. 21. as you know by the Gospell of S. Iohn and in regard hereof S. Hierome doth adde immediately to the words but now cited yet saith he for this one of the twelue is chosen that a HEADE being constituted the occasion of schisme might be taken away Capite cōstituto So now they are vnequall because one is made heade S. Cyprian doth teach the same in the place you cite Although saith he after his resurrection he our Sauiour giues equall power saying as my father sent me so do send you S. Cyp. de vnit eccl take the holy Ghost c. where the power of remitting sinnes is equallie bestowed on all yet that he might declare vnitie he by his authoritie disposed the ORIGEN of the same Vnitie BEGINING FROM ONE * Quamuis Apostolis omnibus c. tamen vt vnitatem manifestaret vnam Cathedram constituit vnitatis eiusdē originem ab vno incipientem sua authoritate disposuit Hoc erant vtique caeteri Apostoli quod fuit Petrus pari consortio praediti honoris potestatis sed exordium ab vnitate proficiscitur Primatus Petro datur vt vna Christi Ecclesia Cathedra vna monstretur S. Cypr. de vnit Eccl. Heere S. Cyprian doth shew what course Our blessed Sauiour tooke to keepe manifest vnitie in his Church and among the Apostles themselues He our Sauiour disposed being must wise an Origen Roote or cause of Vnitie which Vnitie he would haue in his Church and amongst all the Parts of it This Origē or Roote was not a multitude equally gouerning the Church but it was ONE that is Peeter whom our Sauiour made Pastor of his Church and vppō whō he built it as S. Cyp. noted a little before and therefore he saith he disposed the Origē of this Vnitie begining frō ONE So that wee haue in this very place the Primacie of S. Peeter in that he is the Roote and Origen of Vnitie in the whole Body wherein the Apostles were and allso the reason of the Institution of this Primacie or Origen in One. In another place he doth specifie it more particularly saying that The Origen of Ecclesiasticall Vnitie is the CHAIRE that is the Pastorall Authoritie Nauigare audent ad Petri Cathedrā atque ecclesiam Principalē vnde vnitas sacerdotalis exorta est li. 1. ep 3. Vna Ecclesia à Christo Domino nostro super petram origine vnitates ratione fundata l. 1. ep 12. of Peeter And now I hope you wil beleeue it is his mind heering it out of his owne mouth Againe he saith that the Church is founded on a rocke in the Origē of Vnitie And that the Church is founded on Peeter which place S. Augustine doth allso alleage in his booke against the Donatists and in the same place which I must note heereby the way he atributeth expreslie the Primacie to Peeter Lastlie S. Cyprian saith the See of Rome is the Mother or Matrice and Roote of the Catholique Church Now if S. Peeter be the foundation or Rocke of the Catholique Church and the Origen of Ecclesiasticall Vnitie wee may conclude that he is as S. Ierom said the Heade S. Leo doth teach very well that their election was equall they had many things and among the rest Apostolicall dignitie equallie bestowed on them but afterwards one was particularly made Pastor of the Church the Roote of Priestlie Vnitie and Superior to the * Cyprianus in Ep ad Quintum ita loquitur nam nec Petrus inquit quem primum Dominus eleget super quem a dificauit Ecclesiam suam cum secum Paulus disceptaret c. S. Aug. l 2 con Donat. c. 1. Apostolum Petrum in quo Primatus Apostolorum tam excellenti gratia praeeminet c. Ibid. Hortatos esse vt Ecclesiae Catholicae Matricem Radicem agnoscerent tenerent S. Cyp. l. 4. Ep. 8. vide eundem l. 1. ep 3. l. 4. ep 9. rest Vni tamen datum est vt caeteris praeemineret S. Leo. ep 84. S. Leo serm 3. de Anniuers Ass die qui praeponatur which donne they were not in ALL respects equall His words are Among the most blessed Apostles in similitude of honour was a certaine DISTINCTION OF POWER and whereas the Election of all was equall to one was granted that he should be EMINENT ABOVE
prototyporum memariam recordasionem desiderium veniant illisque salutationem HONORARIAM ADORATIONEM exhibeant NON secundum fidem nostram VERAM LATRIAM qua solùm diuinae naturae competit Definitio Conc. Nic. 2. act 7. Legatur Epistola Concelij ad Impp. in fine eiusdem actionis To this Decree the Church in the Councell of Trent refers it self Sess 25. and saith only wee are to giue Images DEBITVM honerem venerationem leauing the further specification of this honour to be learned out of the Nicene Decree further A thing may be adored per se and per accidens and by this I leaue you to vnderstand the Schoolemen for I speake heere onely of the doctrine of the CHVRCH Poets and Rhetoricians haue their figures Must a Generall and approued Councell be condemned with such beggarlie vn-cohereÌ„t prooâ—e as this Magdeb. cent 8. c. 9. col 636. Quare contra Adriani Pontificis Legatorum eius sententiam decernunt c. The Church hath euer since the Apostles daies and then too beleeued that such a Councell cannot erre and therefore you must produce better euideÌ„ce better theÌ„ that which plaÌ„ted Christianitie if you will make her in her ould age change he Creede 19. But suppose the Franckfort Councell had condemned all kind of honour donne to Images which thing you doe further preteÌ„d but caÌ„not prooue This were nothing against the infallibilitie of Oecumenicall Councells aÌ„d Decrees For that Decree of those Bishops assembled there out of the Westerne parts had wanted the consent of other Churches in communion with the See of Rome It had wanted allso the consent of the See Apostolike without which no decree is or was euer by the Church esteemed Oecumenicall Adrian theÌ„ Pope refuted the Canoline Bookes aÌ„d maintained honoring of Images as appeares cleerly by his Booke to the Emperour yeâ— extant in the Tomeâ— of Councells 20. The Second Obiection in this kind is that two Oecumenicall decrees one made in the a Laterane Councell the other b at Constance are opposite in the matter of the Popes authoritie one will haue the Councell vnder the Pope the other ouer wheÌ„ce you inferre that the Church doth coÌ„tradict her self in beleeuing both Staie Sir not so fast the Church hath not both parts of any oppositioÌ„ in her Creede but let vs coÌ„sider the streingth of your argument If you should auouch that you sawe two lions fighting it is not sufficieÌ„t to the veritie of your relation that the things which you saw did fight or that they were Lions for if one were a Lion the other a Beare or if both were Lions but did agree and not fight your relatioÌ„ would be laughed at To make good your argument you must prooue here two things one is that these are decrees and each Oecmenicall the other that one of them in sense is contradictorie to the other Then further if you will accuse the Church you must prooue that she beleeues them both in those contradictorie senses Your labour would not be vnprofitable if you a Nâ—c illud nos moueâ—â— debet quod sanctio c. eum etiaÌ„ soluÌ„ RomanuÌ„ Pontificem pro tempore existentem tanquaÌ„ authoritaté supre omnia CoÌ„cilia habenteÌ„ conciliorum indâ—cendorum transferendoruÌ„ ac dissoluendoruÌ„ plenuÌ„ ius potestateÌ„ habere neduÌ„ ex sacrae Scripturae testimoniis dictis SaÌ„ctorum Patrum ac aliorum Romanorum Pontificum etiam Praedecessorum nostrorum sacrorumque canonum decretis sed propria etiam eorundem Conciliorum confessione manifestè constet quorum aliqua referre platuit c. Conc. Lateran sub Leone 10. sess 11 b Ispa Synodus in S. S. Congregata legitimè generale Concilium faciens Ecclesiam Catholicam militantem repraesentans potestatem a Christo immediatè habet tui quilibet cuiuscunque status vel dignitatis etiamsi Papalis existat obedire tenetur in his quae pertinent ad fidem extirpationem dicti Schismatis reformationem generalem Ecclesiae Dei in capite in membris Conc. Constant sess 4. could efficaciouslie prooue and make it euident that one of them is such a definition as you speake of and that which soeuer it be wee all will admitte and thanke you too But I must aduise you of the difficulties you are to finde herein being such as greater Schollers then I take you for haue not bene able to ouercome 21. First therfore you are to make it euident that in the Lateran Councell the Superioritie of the Pope is formallie defined and that the words wherin it is attributed vnto him or acknowledged as belonging vnto him haue the nature of a decree for a Councell defines not euerie thing which it saith Secondlie you are to make it euident reflect in whose time and where it was how things stood in France c that the Councell was Oecumenicall and that it was open and free to all Bishops in the communion of the Church Thirdlie you must make it euident that the decree of CoÌ„stance is not limitted in circumstances and that it doth not speake onelie of such a Pope as were doubtfull or in case of Heresie or Schisme but absolutelie of any whatsoeuer Fourthlie you must allso make it euident that the decree was Oecumenicall or the Generall Decree of the Church and not of one Obedience onelie other two not consenting These are some of the many and obscure difficulties which hetherto learned men haue not bene able to see thorough and therfore the truth in this Controuersie lies hidden so as neither part is cleerelie knowne for aÌ„ Oecumenicall decree or definition though you rashlie and most ignorantlie haue affirmed it of them both Which you did to make shewe of good forme in your argumeÌ„t euerie one knowing that a contradiction betwixt Oecumenicall decrees doth suppose that both parts contradicting are Oecumenicall 22. Another part of your argument is that ita is Contradiction and this part must be prooued allso and made euident before your argument recouer strength But it is so farre out your power that suppose all the rest were dissembled you could neuer be able to make it good that is to prooue and demonstrate that one is opposite or contradictorie to the other and therfore you doe most vndiscreetelie reiect the Authoritie of Generall Councells reuerenced euer by the Church and directed by Gods Spiritte out of feare or apprehension of a contradiction which in the Laterane and that of Constance you thinke you see The Scholler who reiects Aristotle or Iustinian or the Bible for euerie seeming contradiction will neuer be good Philosopher nor good Lawier nor good Deuine 23. It is manifest by the acts of the of the Councell of Constance that the decree whereon you insist was at first not made by the whole Church because of three Obediences which then were One onelie that is Iohns Obedience or partie made it the other Two not being vnited vnto them So that if you take it as proceeding from those
is the sense of the Spiritte of the Catholique Church and of the holie Ghost himselfe And in this sense of vnbloodie exteriour Sacrifice in forme of breade and wine the catholique church diffused thorough the whole world doth and euer did vniuersallie consent as I haue sufficientlie declared 76. Lastlie taking the Christian Church thus beleeuing and practizing and comparing it to the Prophecies I confound the Iewes too and make an in euitable demoÌ„stration that the Catholique Church in communion of all Nations thus offering a cleane Oblation to God EVERIE WHERE is the true Church of God and shake those people of with that of Malachie My will is not in you saith the Lord of hosts and guifte I wil not receaue at your hand Mal. 1. v. 10 11. for from the rising of the Sunne euen to the going downe my name is greate among the GENTILES and IN EVERIE PLACE there is Sacrificing and there is offered to my name a CLEANE OBLATION because my name is greate AMONGE THE GENTILES saith the Lord of Hosts THE TENTH CHAPTER Tradition 80. BEing not able with your sillie Arguments to driue vs from the Masse you growe desperate and runne foolishlie into the mouth of a Canon It was declared at Nice and since againe at Trent Conc. Nicen 2. act 7. Conc. Tr. sess 4. that Tradition is to be admitted without it you can knowe nothing in diuine matters because it must reach you the Scriptures wherein you pretend to grouÌ„d your selfe Yet because it doth withall offer more then you are willing to receaue you speake against it I haue spoken of it sufficientlie in the first and third bookes but since you repeate your argument I will resume also part of my discourse 8s The doctrine of Tradition is grounded in the Scripture 2. Thess 2. v. 15. Hold and obserue the Traditions which you haue learned either by word of mouth or by our letter heere are distinguished as you see plainlie two waies of deliuering the sacred truth and instruction one is by writing the other by word of mouth and it is to be kept and obserued if the Apostle may be iudge in the matter whether it be deliuered the one way or the other The same in another place allso he doth teach writing vnto Timothie thus 2 Tim. 2. v 2. The things which thou hast heard of me by manie wittnesses commend vnto faithfull men which shall be fitte to teach others allso This is the care the Apostle did take that what he had said might be conuaied vnto Posteritie from haÌ„d to hand commend vnto them saith he which shall be fitte he doth not say to write but to teach these thiÌ„gs which thou hast heard of me he doth not say which thou hast reade but heard and that openlie by manie wittnesses this doctrine taught by word of mouth is to be conserued by teaching others and this is the sacred depositum where of he had spokeÌ„ in the former chapter referring the good keeping thereof to the assistance of the holy Ghost 2. Tim. 1. v 14. keepe the good depositum by the holie Ghost which dwelleth in vs. Which is conformable to our Sauiours promise in S. Iohn He the holie Ghost shall teach you all things and suggest vnto you all things whatsoeuer I shall saie vnto you He saith not whatsoeuer shall be written but whatsoeuer I shall saie and God the Father in his promise to the Church Isa 59. v. 21 My words that I haue putte in thy mouth shall not depart out of thy mouth c. which words are more generall then if he had said thus the Scripture shall neuer be out of thy eies or thou shalt be euer reading that which I will cause to be writteÌ„ or it shall neuer out of the booke whereinsoeuer I shall write it he saith not so but my words shall not out of thy mouth and out of the mouth of thy seed and out of the mouth of the seede of thy seede from hence forth for euer a cleere testimonie of the perpetuitie of sacred doctrine euer deliuered by word of mouth which is the thing wee call Tradition 82. Heerevppon Sainct Ireneus a man neere vnto the Apostles tyme â— Iren. l. 3. â—du Haeres â— 2.3.4 and well seene in their doctrine doth say that the Tradition in the Church receaued from the Apostles hath beene kept by the Succession of Bisshops that the Apostles laid vp in the Church as in a rich depositorie all truth and that therefore for resolution of controuersies recourse is to be made vnto the most auncient Churches So likewise Tertullian one allso of those who were neere vnto the Apostles tyme doth tell vs that in disputation with Heretiques wee are not to appeale vnto the Scripture Tertull. Praesc c. 19. because Heretiques will interprete as they list but that wee must inquire where the faith where the Church is from whom by whom when and to whom the discipline hath beene deliuered whereby Christians are made for where it shall appeale that the truth of discipline and Christian faith is there will be the truth of the Scriptures and of Expositions and of all Christian Traditions wee must vse Tradition S. Epiphan Haeres 61. Vide eundem in haeresi 55. 69. saith S. Epiphanius because all things cannot be had out of diuine scripture wherefore the holie Apostles haue deliuered some things by scriptures and some things by Tradition Many things saith Sainct Augustine are not found in the writings of the Apostles nor in the constitutions of later Councells which notwithstanding are beleeued to haue bene deliuered and commended by them the Apostles because by the vniuersall Church they are obserued S. August l. 2. Bapt c. Donat. c. 7. The doctrines which are obserued and taught in the Church wee haue partlie by the written word and partlie wee haue had them brought vnto vs by Apostolicall tradition S. Basil l. de sp s c. 27. Ib. c. 29. S. Chrys in 2. Thess â— saith S. Basil and in another place I esteeme it Apostolicall to perseuer in vnwritten traditions It is manifest saith S. Iohn Chrysostome that the Apostles deliuered not all by letters but many things without writing and these the vnwritten are as worthie to be beleeued as those other deliuered by writing Wherefore wee thinke the Churches tradition worthie of beleefe it is a tradition Vincent Lirin c. 1. 2. looke no more To conclude Vincentius Lirinensis in his booke of the Prophane Noueltie of Heresies doth tell that he learned of wise and holie men this way to perseuer in the true faith to fence it as he saith with the authoritie of the diuine lawe and with the tradition of the Catholique Church And obiecting presentlie to him selfe as if Ecclesiasticall authoritie were not necessarie because of the sufficiencie of the Scriptures he answeares that it is necessarie because all men vnderstand not the Scripture the same way because of the depth
of it which he declares largelie in old Heretiques and the same wee see in the moderne by experience and then concludes that it is therefore verie necessarie in regard of so many windings of errour to direct the line of propheticall and Apostolicall interpretation according to the rule of the ecclesiasticall and Catholique sense 83. This is heere sufficient for Traditions diuine and Apostolicall which the Spiritte of the Church being to leade vnto all truth doth distinguish from such as are false and superstitious and doth easilie defend against all you can say The Scripture hath not one word against them as anie man will easilie see who doth but marke what he doth reade and will not take speaking for writing which the most ignorant with attention can distinguish in them selues being able to doe the one and not the other And the Fathers are cleere as you haue seene requiring euer tradition as indeed it is required for the Scripture and for the sense though the written word be perfect within its owne bouÌ„ds You allso though you loath it neuer so much must needs admitte of it for the Scripture for the number of Canonicall bookes for the pars of them for the sense and for other things you being not able anie other way in the world to answeare anie man who would denie them or to persuade him to beleeue that you haue the word of God or anie part of it Moreouer this doctrine is by generall consent of the Church defined in the Councells of Nice and Trent and hath beene the meanes whereby the Catholique Church hath conserued vntill now the word of God and therefore the contrarie open Heresie being opposite vnto Gods expresse words which I haue put downe in the begining of this chapter and to the beleefe of the old Fathers of generall Councells and of the Church 84 The text all scripture is profitable c. is answeared in the first booke c. 4. It is profitable true but it is not all sufficient It is sufficient too in one kinde for the written word but nor in all kinds not all-sufficient Tradition and diuine Assistance are necessarie too each in their kinde doth concurre Tradition is more generall then writing it deliuers the scripture and the sense of it and can teach also without writing and did before the Scripture was extant This Tradition relieth vppon the diuine Assistance whereof I haue discoursed largelie the third booke and neede not repeate it heere Particular causes in this lower world are sufficient in their kinde a horse to generate a horse a man to generate a man but the effect is not produced without the concurrence of higher causes The Sunne and a man saith the Philosopher produce a man The inferiour and superiour causes are sufficient in their kinds and yet vnles the prime and most vniuersall cause doth concurre nothing is produced You are to prooue that the Scriture is sufficient in all kinds if you will exclude tradition To all your peaching your mouth is profitable and sufficient too in that kinde you need not two mouthes but wthout a tongue you cannot doe it Mouth and tongue are profitable and sufficient in their kindes but you cannot doe it without braines braines and witte are profitable and sufficient in their kinds but all will not serue without learning So that you see the argument is not good it is profitable and to all therefore all-sufficient 85. And thus I am come at last to the end of this part also hauing answeared the chiefest things which you oppose in the decrees of the Church and shewed how the Church representatiue is vniustlie accused of errour The Decrees of generall Councells were beleeued before Caluin had any Schoole and will be when he hath neuer a Scholler In them is the highest TEACHING AVTHORITIE in the world and therefore the Schollers of Iesus Christ must beleeue what they define The sheepe are not to choose their pasture ould wiues and plowmen are not to decide Controuersies in Religion they are not to asceÌ„d the Chaire and expound Scripture to the world No the Pastors must doe this Mat. 28. Act. 20.10.21 Ephes 4. The Apostles aÌ„d their successors were sent to teach God put Bisshops to rule the Church he charged Peeter to feede his flocke The pastors are to teach The sheepe to learne 86. In generall Councells the Pastors are are assembled their Authoritie is vnited there to moue the Whole to teach the Church The Church is to followe their common direction and therefore it belonges to Gods prouidence to assist them defining And the whole Church vniuersallie doth beleeue that such Councells are assisted and cannot erre learned vnlearned people and Pastors all beleeue it and all the Church as I shewed you before cannot erre The Apostles did beleeue it allso and so vnderstood the promise of Iesus Christ Act. 15. Io. 16. when he said that the holie Ghost should teach them all truth God rules and moues the lower world by the higher The heauens vertue doth begette and conserue things heere on earth To the heauens for the regularitie of their Motion he hath addicted an Intelligence Our Sauiour hath so disposed his Church that the Laitie are mooued and gouerned in matters of Religion by the Clergie Rom. 20. Rom. 10. The Pastors begette and conserue in the people faith by preaching the the word of God And to the Pastors for the Regularitie of their Motion he hath left an Assisting Spirit Io. 16. the Holie Ghost the Spirit of Truth The Christian truth is to be learned in the Schoole of Iesê° Christ this Schoole is the the Catholique Church The highest CHAIER in it is a Perfect Oecumenicall COVNCELL No man hath or can with any apparence pretend as will appeare in the examination a fuller participation of the TEACHING POWER then such a Councell 87. To make an end therefore coÌ„sider well what I do saie That definitioÌ„ which the Catholique Church vniuersallie Of Church proposition there is more in the third booke where I haue allso told you how the diuine authoritie aÌ„d the Church authoritie doe moue both in seuerall kinds to the same acte doth take for a sufficâ—eÌ„â— direction of her faith by way of Proposition IS FREE froÌ„ errour Otherwise the Catholique Church vniuersallie might erre which is vnpossible as I haue declared in the third booke Now the Catholique Church vniuersallie doth take the definition of the Councell which SHEE ESTEEMETH Oecumenicall to be a sufficient direction of her faith by waye of Proposition as I haue declared there also And hence it comes that the definition of a Councell ESTEEMED by the Catholique Church Oecumenicall is free froÌ„ errour Will you haue another way without recourse to such a Councell Take this What the Bisshops diffused those I meane who are in the Catholique communioÌ„ do vniformelie teach is true If you should oppose that they are many and that you cannot know the doctrine of them all being diffused I would answere that by their communion with the See Apostolique their doctrine is knowne sufficiently for this purpose aÌ„d their communion is very manifest vnto all Where you must note that it is the exteriour professioÌ„ which I atteÌ„d vnto PropositioÌ„ this is easilie knowne and this as farre as it is vniforme in ALL Bishops in the Catholique communioÌ„ be they many or few so they be all is WARRANTED by the Holie Ghost and by this exteriour proposition or commoÌ„ doctrine whatsoeuer els any of them thinke secretly in their mindes I am to be directed Ephes 4. Mat. 28.10.16 He Christ gaue Pastors that wee be not wauering Teach all Nations and behold I am with you The spirit of truth shall teach you all truth If you dispute againe meddle not with points not yet agreed vppon among vs. Talke not of things controuerted in our Schooles at this daie The proposition which you oppose if you will oppose me must be a Catholique proposition agreed on generally by the Church Other things I can dispute in our owne Schooles and with such as know them better then you doe
Pastors in it euer if that were the mysticall body of Christ for Christ appointed such till all meete Edantorigines EcclesiaruÌ„ suaruÌ„ euoluaÌ„t ordinem Episcoporum suorum ita per Successiones ab enitio decurientem vt primus ille Episcopus aâ—qâ—e ex Apostolis vel Apostolicis viris qui tameÌ„ cuÌ„ Apostolis perâ—euerauerint habuerit auctorem antecessoreÌ„ Hoc enim modo Ecclesiae Apostolicae sensus suos deferunt Tert. Praescript c. 32. And you must not aske them for they will shew you none but laie persons Let vs know what Councelles they haue kept and where what Nations they haue conuerted vnto Christ and by whom what Sainctes and Martyrs haue ben among them what Churches they haue erected what Heretickes they haue condemned and where and how and with what Nations and Princes they haue communicated and bring good Euidence to prooue it If this be the true Church conceale her not God is not ashamed of his Church if these people be the companie of holie ones let vs see their actions and good works If there were a continual succession of such men let vs see their monuments otherwise wee haue noe reason to beleeue that there were indeed any such in the tyme betwixt Waldo and our Sauiours ascension which are more then a thousand yeares If you will haue vs beleeue there were such all that tyme bring your proofe Lett vs know I saie and should repeate this question oft least you wittinglie doe forget it where they were from tyme to tyme what they did who were of their communion or tooke notice at least of theÌ„ as frindes or foes what writers they had what Bishops what Councels and this from age to age till you come to the Apostles daies The questioÌ„ is cleere the matter is of fact the thing of moment You haue bene searching these huÌ„dred yeares all papers and libraries and scrowles where is your answeare where is your euidence 6. If this were all donne which will be donne when tyme runnes backward and when euery thing whatsoeuer any minister for a shift can desire or imagine may be fouÌ„d euery where there would remaine yet a further taske and that were to shew that this religion of the Waldenses 2. Book 1. Ch. were vniuersall in regard of place or Nations But I need not vrge further for you are grauelled in the very first If you should offer to name Hus or Wickleffe I would proceed after the same manner with either of them and demaund proofe of their continuall succession euer since our Sauiour Christ did ascend and of their communion with Nations to verifie the Prophecies of the Old Testament and our Sauiours intention in the New and of their agreement with you in all pointes I would demaund euidence of all this of VVickleffe of Hus or of you for theÌ„ and desire to see the face of that Church her Actes and Monumentes her VVriters her Pastors c. And this with great reason before I beleeue it and embrace the communion of it and venture my soule in it because that which I demauÌ„d is hetherto vnknowne not to me onlie but to all the whole world THE SECOND CHAPTER That no satisfaction is giuen by recourse to our Church 7. THe nakednes of your cause appearing manifestlie thorough the beggarie of the VValdenses you would hide your selues faine in our Church and therefore flinging of that poore shift as vnsufficient you saie next that your succession hath ben continued by vs. But you may not rest heere The thing which wee demaund is a continuall succession of Protestantes that is of men professing the religion now currant in England Bring your euidence that in euery age there were some of these men VVee are not of your religion wee haue openlie condemned it as hereticall in the Councell of Trent and you doe persecute ours in England condemning many pointes of faith which wee beleeue so that if you take vs to continue you to the primitiue Church and to the Apostles this continuation is not Protestant wheras a Protestant continuation is the thing wee demaund Goe not to fast but consider well what heere wee haue in hand I demaund a continuall succession of men of your Religion not of ours you are to giue accompt of your owne predecessors not of mine of Protestants not of Papists You must shewe your owne Cards and not mine if doe meane to winne the game Wee doe frequent the Masse beleeue vnbloodie Sacrifice adore the sacred Hoste pray to Saincts worship Angells beleeue a Purgatorie pray for the deade honoure Images Wee lay open our consciences to our Priests and acknowledge in them power to Absolue vs and a diuine precept obliging vs to Confesse Wee beleeue that our Sauiour doth impart vnto the reconciled power to redeeme by good and penall works the temporall paine due to sinne and that the Church hath power by way of Indulgence to release it Wee beleeue Traditions Merit Iustification by works Obseruation of the commandements and works of Supererogation Vowes and a fuller Canon of the Scripture then you doe In our Hierarchie wee haue Bishops Priests Deacons Subdeacons and others all which in substance you haue not but an outward appearaÌ„ce onely Wee acknowledge in the Pope a superioritie ouer the other Bishops in the Church in Generall approued Councells an Infallibilitie and in each Member of our Communitie an Obligation of conformitie in iudgment to the iudgment and Decrees of these Councells In these and such other things essentiall to our Religion wee are distinct from you and therefore it is childish to name vs for men of your Religion It is true that you pretend to beleeue some things wich wee doe as the Trinitie and Incarnation and some parts of Scripture Neuerthelesse in other things within the compasse of diuine faith and religion wee are distinct as by the premises it doth appeare All Heretiques that euer were beleeued somethings with the Church but that sufficed not to make them of the same Religion with it or among themselues Iewes beleeue somethings which Christians doe so doe the Turkes and the Naturalists who beleeue a God notwithstanding Catholiques Iewes Heretiques Turkes and Naturalists are not ALL of ONE RELIGION Horses and Asses are liuing Creatures but not of the same species with a man Lutherans and Caluinistes are not Catholiques The Pope is no Protestant the Bishops of our Church are not of your communion our Priests are consecrated to say Masse our People beleeue as their Pastors All abhorre your Heresie and detest your Schisme Your Bookes are against our faith your lawes against the exercise of our Religion You accuse vs of Idolatrie Superstition Errour Heresie Name others name YOVR OWNE and a CONTINVALL SVCCESSION of them name not vs. Your Religion in that it is distinct from ours is made vp partly of newe deuised stuffe partly of old ragges left vnto you from the torne coates of Iouinian Donatus Aerius Vide Coll. R. Chalc. c. 23.
on with your conceipt but wrong not other men The Aethiopians as blacke as they are doe loath and abhorre the communion of your Church and are the more vnwilling to heare of it Luther Respons ad Dialog Syluest Pri. Calu. in Antidot Conc. Tri. sess 6. c. 12. because she is not ashamed to professe that she cānot keepe the cōmaundementes with all the helpe she hath frō God allmightie and cōsequentlie that she cannot for beare blasphemie nor errour nor witchcraft nor adulterie nor murder nor robberie in fine that she cānot possiblie obserue that Minimum legis mandatū onus Aetna grauius Calu. Ibid. which equitie doth require and God commaund And for this among other reasons not Ethiopians onelie but all the rest of the world loathe her and wishe she were retired againe into her hole of inuisibilitie 12. As touching your māner of answearing I wish you to consider that you doe not satisfie our demaund nor euer will by naming such as agree not with vs in some one point or more White Illyricus vnles you prooue likewise that they doe agree with you and be of the religiō which in England you professe For example if you name a mā which denied the Popes primacie Ob. The Papists haue not a Succession of such as they are Answ. l. 2. c. 6. and l. 3. c. 4. as you doe if this man consent not with you in other thinges it is childish to thinke you satisfie our demaund by naming him he may be in other pointes of the same minde with vs or with Arians or with Nestoriās or with Eutichians or Mahometans or Iewes or Athiestes and therfore not a Protestant vnles you admit all kind of men into your communion and will haue the Protestant Church to be the congregation of them all And this too would not serue for the thing wee demaūd is a catalogue or successiō of mē whose religion is the same with yours and currant there in Englād In like mānner if you should name a man which agreed with you in one halfe of your positions and in the other halfe dissented this man were not yours yea lesse then halfe or a quatter or the tenth part is Ynough to diuide a man from communion and from vnitie in beleefe as you may see in S. Epiphanius S. Epiph. op Panar S. Aug. de Haeres tom 6. and S. Augustine That you may the better conceaue me suppose one of your fellowes is become an Arian I aske you whether he be of your religion and whether his religion be currant there in England or not if it be then Arianisme is there currāt though the Roman profession be abhorred if it be not thē a fewe yea one point is ynough to diuide you in religion from that man and him from you Now those men which you bring were each of them contrarie in many pointes as Waldo Berengarius Wickleffe and therefore diuided and distinct in religion frō you Neither will your distinction of points fundamentall and not fundamētall help you here both because those men did differ in your fundamentall ād most essentiall point of Protestancie that is in the matter of Iustification as also because errours in other pointes besides those which you call fundamentall are sufficient to make distinction in religion which is euident and by your selues cānot be denied for you saie that Papistes holde all fūdamētalls and yet their religion is not yours But of this I haue spoked alreadie and neede not repeate it I onelie adde now that a man by your principles may denie euery verse which is in the Bible and obstinatelie too excepting that onelie which is expressed in the three Creedes and Baptisme and the Supper and yet be of the same Church and communion with your selfe And what thinke you of your fellow that saieth further that Arian Churches are allso to be accompted the Churches of God because they hold the foundation of the Gospell If this hold Morton of the Kingd of Isr and the Church p. 94. what makes an heretique what communion doe you refuse what Church among Christians can be false If all the Bible but twelue propositions or there aboutes if the Incarnation if the Trinitie if the Christians God may be denied and the deniers be accompted the Church of God It restes that you saie now that the Turkes are also of the same Church and religion with your selues 13. A like obseruatiō to the former I would haue you to reflect on whē our mē demaūd White what Church wee went out of and what precedent Church did oppose it selfe to our religion and contradict it Wee doe not aske whether any man euer did oppose any part of our beleefe wee know there were such there were some which did oppose the deitie of our Sauiour some the Deitie of the holy Ghost some the real Presence some Images c. this wee know but the demaūd requires proofe of a Protestāt Church or any other if you be wearie of defēding your owne which being before ours did examine iudge and cōdemne our religion If your men will giue satisfaction to the questiō they must answeare this they must assigne a visible Church allwayes extant which did still condemne our religion whensoeuer wee appeared and being one in it selfe was still against vs at all tymes when wee were Your last answere is that the Church of God was all infected with erroures for many hundred yeares which errours were such notwithstanding saie you as destroied not her essence white And this conceipt you declare in the exāple of a leprouse mā For your Church I admit easilie that it is infected with errours The Church of God is not as you shall heare in the third booke where that matter shall be examined in the meane tyme I repeate the former argument and put it thus Either all Christians before Luther did erre in Matters of religiō Arg. or some onelie or none at all If none at all did erre Then why would you mend that which by your cōfession was not before amisse why trouble you the world to bringe in a newe religion without which you confesse it was well before If all of them did erre in matters of religion then your religion did not come downe to you from the Apostles by a succession continuall as you pretend your faith and religion was not alwayes in the world the Gospell was not sincearlie and incorruplie professed at all tymes I adde further if al did erre then you haue vndertaken a taske vnpossible in your owne iudgment in offering to maintaine a perpetuall existence or being of your religion and you quarrell with all that went before And where then was the all teaching spiritte did he mistake the true doctrine or did Christ breake his word If some onelie did erre and not all giue vs a Catalogue of some of thē who did not erre let vs heare their names the place of their aboade the profession they were
de assūp sua ad pōtif Onelie Peeter is chosen out of all the world who is put both ouer the vocation of all Nations and ouer all the Apostles and ouer all the Fathers of the Church that allthough there be many Priests and many Pastors amōge the people of God yet Peeter properlie rule or gouerne them All whom Christ principallie doth allso gouerne TRADITION S. Chrys in 2. Thess hom 4. It is manifest that the Apostles deliuered not all things by their Epistles but many things without writing and both the one and the other deserue the same beleefe and therefore let vs esteeme the traditions of the Church to be worthie of faith and credit S. Epiphan Haeres 61. Wee must vse Traditions for the Scripture containeth not all things and therefore the Apostles deliuered certaine things by writing certaine by Tradition REALLE PRESENCE S. Cyrill Hierosol Catech. myst 4. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 TRANSVBSTANTIATION Serm. de coena Domini apud Cypr. S. Greg. Nyss orat Catech. c. 37. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 With all assurance let vs receaue the body and bloode of Christ for in the forme of breade the body is giuen to thee and in the forme of wine the bloode c. knowing and beleeuing most assuredlie that that which appeareth breade is Not Breade though it seeme so to the tast but it is the bodie of Christ and that which appeareth wine is Not wine as the tast doth iudge it to be but the Bloode of Christ The breade which our lord gaue vnto his disciples being changed not in Shape but in Nature by the omnipotencie of the Word is made flesh Christ thorough the dispensation of his grace entreth by his flesh into all the faithfull and mingleth himselfe with their bodies which haue their substance from breade and wine to the end that man being vnited vnto that which is immortall may attaine to be made partaker of incorruption and these things he bestoweth transelementing the Nature of the things that are seene into it SACRIFICE S. Cyrill Alexand. in declar anathem 11. Conc. Ephes Iren. l. 4. c. 32. Wee celebrate in the Church the holie quickning and Vnbloodie Sacrifice beleeuing not that that which is shewed is the bodie of some common man like vs and his bloode but wee receaue it rather as the life giuing words owne flesh and bloode for common flesh cannot giue life Christ tooke bread and gaue thankes saying this is my bodie and the chalice likwise c he confessed to be his blood and taught the new Oblation of the new testament which the Church receauing from the Apostles doth offer to God in All the world In the books of the Machabees wee reade that Sacrifice was offered for the deade PRAYER FOR THE DEADE S. Aug. l. de cura pro mort c. 1. but were it no where reade in old Scripture the Authoritie of the whole Church which in this custome is well knowne is not small where in the prayers of the Priest which are powered out to our lord God at his Alter the commendation allso of the deade hath a place VVORSHIP OF SAINCTES Iustin Mart. Apol. 2. ad Ant. Wee doe worship and adore God the father and his Sonne who came and taught vs these things and the companie of his followers and the like good Angells and the propheticke Spirit and wee doe worship them both by word and deedes and in truth and wee teach or deliuer this abundantlie to all those which will learne according as wee haue bene taught and instructed PRAYER TO SAINCTS S. Ambros l. de Viduis The Angells are to be beseeched which are giuen to vs for our guard martyrs are to be beseeched whose patronage wee seeme to challenge by the pledge of their bodies They can aske for our sinnes who with their bloode haue washed away their owne if they had any They are Gods martyrs our presidents beholders of our liues and actions let vs not be ashamed to make them intercessors of our infirmitie CROSSING S. Aug. tract 118 in Ioan. What is that signe of Christ which all know but the Crosse of Christ which signe vnles it be applied either to the foreheads of the faithfull or to the water whereby they are regenerated or to the oyle wherewith they are confirmed or to the Sacrifice wherwith they are nourisshed nothing of this is well donne This will serue my turne and now I argue thus If our doctrine be found in the writings of Antiquitie and there approoued it is vnpossible for any man to make it euident that Antiquitie is against vs and for you but our doctrine is there found and approued as the authors before named declare abundantlie therefore c. And in Confirmation hereof I take only that which they alleage out of those writings which are by your selues acknowledged for ancient and currant because I neede not here dispute of the authoritie of such as your men and some of ours do except against Of this sense of Antiquitie I haue here allso giuen you a tast whereby a iudgmēt not distempered will perceaue immediatelie that you cannot make it euident that they were on your side And in naming them for your predecessors you giue no satisfaction to the demaūd which inquires for vndeniable and cleere euidence of a successiō of such men as in Religion you are The third book shall teach you whose interpretatiō must be stood to or of Protestants I knowe that you do offer to delude all the places which wee bringe but men of iudgment may see by your answeares that you dare not stand to the proper sense of the Fathers words an experience whereof they may see presentlie if they will but obiect vnto you these fewe places here cited ād obserue what poore answeares you make and how farre they are from the plaine ād Grāmaticall sense of the words or sentences Now further if your owne mē would open their mouthes and confesse plainlie what they beleeue in their consciences touching the doctrine of Antiquitie your assertiō or challenge would euidentlie yet appeare more vnreasonable and voyde of title muche lesse would it deserue to be supposed for certaine on your side that in those dayes all were yours Wee will demaund of two or three of thē if you please and the rather because their confession shall make roome for the next argument and bringe it in 23. Speake Fulck and begin I confesse that Ambrose Ful. reio to Brist p. 36. Kem. exam Con. Trid. par 3. p. 200. Hierome Augustine held inuocation of Saincts Kemnitius Most of the Fathers as Nazianzen Nyssen Basil Theodoret Ambrose Hierome Augustine did not dispute but auouch the soules of martyrs and Saincts to heare the petitions of those who prayed vnto thē they went often to the monuments of martyrs and inuocated Martyrs by name Whit. Def. p. 473. whitgift All the Bysshops ād learned writers of the Greeke Church ād Latines allso for
of the Deuil opposed to the Cittie of God or Societie of the Good Others think it to be Rome as it was in S. Iohns time when the Emperours there abiding did persecute the Church of Christ and as it will be about the end of the world Be it this or that or some other nothing is heere auouched against vs. It is not heere said that the Pope is that Woman or that he is the Beast on which the Woman sate or that he is one of the Heades of the Beast or that he is Antichrist No one of all these is heere affirmed why then do you alleage it what is this to the argument wherein I said the Scripture doth no where formallie contradict vs or how doth it iustifie your bragge that you haue Scripture in manifest places free from all ambiguitie on your side 43. And thus farre concerning the texts alleaged by Iohn White which he affirmed to be manifestlie and without ambiguitie for the Protestants where as not any one doth in termes contradict that which our Church doth teach which was the thinge he made his reader to expect But you will bid a man aske the Spirit for the sense of these places And to meet with you at this turning too so will I. You will direct him to the Spirit in your selfe in Iohn white I will direct him to the Spirit in the Church My direction and resolution is well grounded as I will declare here after Yours is not And if by this litle which hath bene said here in this Chapter a man would make a guesse at your Spirit he should quicklie find his nature First he contradicts the Spirit of the Fathers who held Purgatory merit c. SecoÌ„dlie he coÌ„tradicts the Spirit of the Catholike Church which he doth oppose in these things Thirdly he contradicts the Spirit of S. Iohn the Apostle and imputes vnto him a deliberate act of superstitious Idolatrie so you call adoring aÌ„gells together with grosse stupiditie that being tould once and that by an Angell too he would not forbeare but doe it againe But of this I shall speake againe in an other place that which for the present I conclude here is that the Scripture doth not condemne vs in plaine words You haue done all you can to shew it and cannot yet finde one place for this purpose You see allso by the way what I thinke of your consequences though that was not my scope in this discourse as I declared in the begining of the former Chapter THE SIXT CHAPTER That is vnpossible for Protestants to winne the cause by Scripture 44. HEretiques all generallie affect obscuritie they drawe their opponent as much as euer they can into the darke that he may not see there what they doe or their confusion be concealed from the people and so their credit saued I expected cleere places I looked for a coÌ„bate in the light you should haue shewne in plaine words in the Scripture there is no Purgatory Christ is not in the Sacrament reallie Priests and Bysshops may take wiues to worship Angells is Idolatrie These and the rest of your propositions you should haue showne there if you would haue woÌ„ne that way and haue done that which you pretended But you haue not done it you haue cited some places which haue it not in the words and in regard they are obscure to you or to the ignorant you suspect or guesse and preteÌ„d the sense which you would haue may lie secret in the words though you cannot shewe it there and wee knowe it is not there at all Wee haue light enough to see that the Scripture in those places doth not as much as obscurely speake against vs wee haue prayer aÌ„d industry wee haue the Fathers helpe wee haue innumerable eies regardiÌ„g the doctrine of the Church and the Scripture and coÌ„paring them together In a word the assisting Spirit with all his guifâ—s is in our Church 45. Now to shewe further how vnpossible a taske it is for you to declare and make it euident out of Scripture that yours is the true Religion and ours not I will turne the argument which I did vse in the begining of the former Chapter into an other forme aÌ„d make it thus If the scripture doth formallie auouch our doctrine and denie yours Arg. it is vnpossible for you to make it euident by the Scripture that your Religion is true and ours false But the Scripture doth formallie auouch our doctrine and denie yours and this I will shewe running thorough the points wherein our maine difference doth consist which are the Infallibility of the Church in deliuering Scripture aÌ„d Gods word generallie Traditions reall Presence OblatioÌ„ of Christs body aÌ„d blood in the formes of bread aÌ„d wine for the remissioÌ„ of Sinnes which is the vnbloodie Sacrifice The Primacie of S Peeter and his Pastorall office Absolution from sinnes by Priests Indulgences Iustice before God and intrinsecall in meÌ„ or inherent Iustification by works and Reward of them keeping the Commandements Freewill in works of grace Vowes and workes of Counsell not of command Single life prayer for the dead Intercession of Sainctes and Angells and finallie Worship of some things inanimate or sensles in regard of the reference they haue to things truely capable of honour more then ciuile In these generall heads the rest are included and these you name allwayes and stand most vppon them I am now by my promise to bringe their grounds out of Sripture wherein I will be as briefe as I can and will begin with the neerest which is the last aÌ„d so backwards till I meete the first againe Before I begine the taske two thinges are to be noted The first is that I am not in this Chapter to coÌ„tend about the sense and meaning if you pretend it is not that which the words offer immediately but that my taske is donne if I bringe places of scripture which affirme formally if the words be taken in their proper sense that which wee doe A further Iudgment or determination of the meaning and sense of the words I bringe is to be taken from the testimonie of the Spirit The Spirit I say is to be iudge of the sense and meaning not the spirit of externes or in them but the spirit in Gods Church And this Iudgment is euidently on our side as I will prooue in the third booke Here I am not to meddle with it but only to finde our doctrine in the same or equiualent words and to put it here downe This you must beare in minde likewise for the argumeÌ„t which in the third Chapter I made out of the Fathers It suffised there against you to cite our doctrine out of their mouthes Of their meaning the Spirit must be Iudge And not the Spirit in externes but the Spirit in the Church The second is that since to descend vnto particulars and to inquire each ones opinion in matter of Religion among ProtestaÌ„ts is endles and of infinite regard 3. Book
fond persuasion any indifferent man who doth vnderstand Latine may do thus In anie maine controuersie of faith which you question and accuse this great companie I now speake of of innouation do you name the tyme when their doctrine first began and let him who would see the triall take Gualterius Coccius or some other of our Authors who write of that matter and he shall find another in the primitiue Church who did teach it before the tyme or partie you assigned whereby it will be euident vnto him that you were deceaued about the begining of it And if he follow the direction of the booke he shall finde the same in the Fathers I said in any maine controuersie of faith and not in any thinge whatsoeuer because the Church hath power to make lawes and prescribe ceremonies and therefore may introduce or alter such thinges according as the circumstances in her iudgment require For this reason I speake of points of faith or such things whose institution wee hold to be Diuine For example the substance of Baptisme is of diuine institution but Ceremonies haue beene added and the substance of the Masse is by diuine institution but prayers and Ceremonies haue beene and may yet be added by the Church 17. If you be discontented with this manner of proceeding from which without a preiudice you cānot disclaime at all I vrge an other and take learned men to scanne the businesse In the seauenth age when the Christian word was Papisticall and of our Religion as you confesse the Schollers and wisest men had the Fathers writinges and the Memories of the sixt age which you must needes graunt because the precedent age did leaue them to their posteritie the Fathers to their Children the Masters to their Schollers Now those of the seauenth age as I haue noted more fullie in the former booke Bysshops Pastors learned mē and generallie all the Church of that tyme hauing these pregnant and infallible meanes of informatiō by writings and otherwise did iudge and beleeue and therevppon did engage their part in heauen and eternall estate that they receaued their faith and Religion from the former age being the sixt Wherefore since a world of men in matter of Facte as whether their Fathers wēt to Masse praied to Saincts c. could not be deceaued the thing being subiect to the eie and there being infinite eies obseruing religiously what was donne it followes cleerlie since the world generally did then beleeue this to be the Religion professed by their Fathers that so it was 18. My fourth argument shall be this Papistrie as you terme it was the generall Religiō of the Christiā world in the tyme of Boniface the third as you may see in the Ecclesirsticall histories of that tyme whereby appeares that all generally did goe to Masse pray to Saincts confesse their sinnes c. and your men allso Arg. 4 do confesse it Againe the true Religion was once in Rome their communion once was withall the world and this Religion did remaine in the communion of Nations till the tyme of S. Leo and S. Gregory the Great as you may obserue in their bookes wherein their communion with the Christian world is manifest so compare the sixt age to the fift the fift age to the fourth c. as I before did the 7. to the 6. Now Sainct Gregory died in the yeare six hundred and fower and Bonifacius the third who in the tyme of S. Gregory had bene imployed at Constantinople came to be Pope and died also within the space of three yeares after in which space the Religion of the Christian world was not generally changed as wee see manifestly by all histories of that tyme therefore the Religion which was vniuersally in the world in Bonifacius his tyme was the same religion with that which was vniuersally in the world in tyme of S. Gregorye which Religion you confesse to be the right Moreouer that in the foresaid space of three yeares it was not changed besides the Testimony which is taken out of the histories of that tyme where no mention is made of such a change by friend or foe but all things currant as before in matters of faith I cōfirme first by the practise of Sainct Augustine and his companie who being sent by Pope Gregorie brought Papistrie from him into England as is largly obserued in the Protestants Apologie and by your learned men there confessed Prot. Apol tr 1. Sect. ◠I prooue it secondly by the writings of such as liued in the sixt Age wherein are expresly contained all pointes of Papistrie which you may finde in Coccius and Gualterius if you take the paines and I will put downe if it be required Thirdly it is not only incredible to any man of iudgment but also manifestly vnpossible by reason of the diuine ordinance and promise of Iesus Christ that all Christiā people in the space of three yeares without meeting in common Councell without resistance of any zealous men without force of armes or other constraint should generally change the religion of the whole world and conspire all generally for you cannot produce any one man who stood for your Religion in that tyme which you would haue vs beleeue was the Religion of the first six hundred yeares there is not in histories mention of any one Protestant man then resisting therefore I say againe it is vnpossible that they should conspire all all kingdomes all states all Prouinces all Natiōs all vniuersities all Bysshops and generally all men liuing learned and vnlearned good and bad Pastors and people against the Euidence of the former Religion against the Religion of the Christian world which you foolishly suppose to haue bene the Protestant howsoeuer against the Religion of the world before them maintayned to that tyme by Fathers Writings and Authority by the force and power of cleere Successiō in the Chaires of Christs Apostles by the word of God interpreted by the Spirit in knowne Saincts by consent of Nations and generally of the Christian world and finally by the seale of infinite miracles recorded euery where and fresh in memory which Religion they had seene exercised in all the Christian world with their owne eies and had practised their owne selues Yet this you make a companie of sillie people to beleeue on your word Isa 59.21 Io 14.16 Ephes 4.14 against a world of eie witnesses against all rhe men of that age yea against Gods couenant with his Church and against the expresse promise of Iesus Christ THIRD CHAPTER Further confirmation that the Companie of Christians in communion with the Bysshop of Rome is the Church 19. THe former Argument because I know you will striue what you can to cauil at it I will second with another taken out of the confession of your Deuines and though I loathe to rehearce their fowle speaches and errours against the Church and her doctrine yet some of thē here I will set in your way desiring the
19.21 Matth. 10.100.12 and certainely foretould things to come to himself to his aduersaries to his disciples to Ierusalem to the Gentiles to the Church 42. His miracles were many donne in the sight of his enemies donne oft with a word He cured the sicke gaue sight vnto the blind and life to those were deade Matt. 9. Luk 7. And was so powerfull heerein that he gaue his disciples power to doe the same and so farre that their tutch their word their clothes yea ād shadow there followed miraculous effects Act. 5. Neither was his life onely but this death likewise full of miracle in so much that nature her self was troubled with the horrour of that daie where in he on whō she depended died The earth trembled the rocks burst in sunder the vaile of the Tēple splitte graues did surrēder their deade Matt. 27. Luk. 23. the Sunne was ecclipsed strangely ād a generall darknes ouerspred the whole earth Being put to death in the sight of a world of people and his bodie buried he riseth such was his diuine power from death hauing thereby paid the ransome for mankind Mat. 27. Luk. 24. 1. Cor. 15. and is the third daie againe aliue and appeares and conuerses and giues instruction power and commission to his disciples and lastlie in their sight doth ascend Being ascended he sends the holy Ghost in visible manner vnto them all assembled whereby they receaue an inward testimony of the truth he had taught Act. 1. 2. and are so confirmed and encouraged by the power of this Spirit that they begin confidently notwithstanding the Iewes threates and opposition to diuulge his doctrine 43. And behold Peeter Supremū antiquissimū Theologorum stigium S. Dionys diu nom c 3. of an ignorāt fisherman is now become the Prince and Heade of deuines and maintaineth with the victorie by the knowne successe of many ages vniuersally now manifest the cause of Iesus Christ against all the world He is also so good an Oratour and on the suddaine that with his first speach and this made without studie Act. 2. the winnes in the sight of his Aduersaries three thousand to the faith For the better diuulging of the Gospell in all Nations these Fishermen haue also bestowed on them by their Master the guifte of tongues and instantlie the doctrine of Iesus Christ is vttered in all languages the Parthians and Medians and Elamites and those which inhabite Mesopotomia Iudea and Capadocia Pontus and Asia Act. 2. Phrygia and Pamphilia Aegypt and the parts of Lybia that is about Cyrene and strangers of Rome Iewes allso and Proselytes and Cretensians and Arabians all with admiratiō and amazement heare their owne languages from the mouthes of vnlettered Galileans O heauenly Master o powerfull and diuine spirit o wondrous Schoole o happie Scholers The holy Ghost saith a greate Sainct fills a boy giuen to the harpe and makes him a Psalmist ◠Gregor sup Ezech. he filles an abstinent childe and makes him the Iudge of Elders he filles a neatheard and makes him a Prophet he filles a fisherman and makes him Prince of Apostles he filles a persecutor and makes him Doctor of the Gentiles he filles a publican and makes him an Euangelist Adde heere that he filles a companie of vnlearned men and makes them linguists Deuines Preachers and Apostles 44. The Disciples thus miraculously furnished with knowledge and tongues to the amazement and confusion of all opponents did according to their Masters cōmission resolutely set on their greate taske which was to carrie the good tydings of the Worlds Redemption by Iesus the Sonne of God to all Natiōs and dispersing themselues into diuers partes did preach euery where Mar. 19. our Lord cooperating and confirming their doctrine with signes and woonders And now the World began to turne from Vice to Vertue from Superstition to Religion from Idolatrie to God againe 45. The Enemie of vertue ād of all good proceeding who affecting diuine honour fell frō heauen and cōtinuing his desire thought to compasse it heere on earth perceauing of the motion nowe begunne and seeing his ministers contemned his Idols ouerthrowne vncleane Spirits commaunded out of men and a generall reformatiō in the way began to storme and raised a most bitter persecution against the Church wherein by his instigation Iewes Gentiles and Heretickes with witte power and malice were to oppose her and the world made a Theater of the combat 46. The particulars are to long for this place and therefore I remit you to Baronius to reade there what the Christians did suffer in the tymes of Nero Domitiā Traian Marcus Aurelius and Sueuerus commanders of the Roman World when confessing the faith of Iesus Christ in all places on all occasions before all kind of people their number did increase daily in the face of torment and the sword of Persecution preuailed nothing but to lay open their constancie to the world Prouinces Ilands Castles Fortresses Tents Campes Tertull. Apol. ad Gent. c. 37 Courtes Pallaces Senates Market places all were full and the Kingdome of Christ discouering it self further thē the Roman Empire was outstreched into all corners beleeued in all places reuerenced of all Nations euery where raigning adored euery where After the forenamed followed other most bitter persecutiōs by Decius Dioclesian Maximinian Wherein the Priests were tormented the Churches pulled downe the Bookes burnt ād the furie was such being with extreame violence borne into all prouinces Citties Townes in the Roman world that it threatned an vniuersall extirpation yeauen to the last Christian man and yet could not the nūber of beleeuers be diminished Wee reade of seuēteene thousād martyred in one month and that in Aegypt a part of Africke there were 144000. put to death ād 700000. banished from the same place in Diocletiās tyme. Reade Euseb Baron Spondan by which if wee guesse at the multitude which did suffer in all the tyme of the ten persecutions in all the world the number will appeare infinite and our faith be confirmed with a world of blood So earnestly did the Deuil by these tyrannicall cruel meanes oppose the Church which notwithstanding when all was donne was greater then before Constant in so much that Christianity got the Empire and then securely spred it self ād Rome as Leo the greate truly said S. Leo serm 1. de Nat. Apost being made the See of Peeter came to rule more vniuersallie by diuine Religion then by tēporall Soueraignetie for though enlarged by many victories she had extended the right of her Empire by sea and land yet that which the toyle of Warre subdued was lesse thē that which Christian peace did bring vnder 46. Out of this admirable plantation of Christianitie and so powerfull a proposition and persuasion of the truth vnto the World that it was esteemed aboue all things els deerest otherwise to men the Fathers make excellent discourses to shew the diuine power of our Sauiour
of sinne out of the soule so that it cometh in to the Church purer then the Sunne and there findes the breade of life breade of Angells the medicine of immortalitie the fouÌ„taine of all good and consummation of Sacraments the holie Eucharist to feede vppon Euery where there are Altars wherevppon is Sacrificed vnbloodilie the Lambe of God that taketh away the sinne of the world according as IESVS our high Priest Priest for euer according to the Order of Melchisedech did institute and ordaine In the way to these Altars are Tribunalls wherein those doe sitte who can open Heauen to the PeniteÌ„t where the Priest doth forgiue trespasses comitted against God Heauen approuing the Sentence of a man I will giue to thee Peeter Matt. 16. 18. the keies of the kingdome of heauen Whatsoeuer you shall loose in earth shall be loosed also in heauen whose sinnes you shall forgiue they are forgiuen them Ioan. 20. and whose you shall retaine they are retained Heere are the Doctors Euangelists Prophets and Pastors of whom wee reade in S. Paul Heere are Isaies Kings and Queenes Abrahams Starrs the Temples of the Holie Ghost and Gods Elect. All Tribes and People and tongues all Nations all the ends of the Earth doe come hither and adore in this Mount of our Lord in this House of God Heere the Holie Ghost still abideth illuminating directing Sanctifying and before him a hundred thousand harts burne euer in the flames of diuine loue Here some are weeping for their sinnes others meditating on the Passion others teaching and instructing the people others defining in generall Councell others conuerting Nations others adoring the souueraigne will of God others suffering for his sake In the Quire innumerable tongues are imployed daie and night in the praise of their Creator and Redeemer And round about are Watchmen that neuer hold their peace Lift vp thine eyes o IERVSALEM round about and see all these are gathered together they are come vnto thee Thy somes are come from a farre and thy daugthers are risen from thy side See and abound let thy hart maruaile and be dilated for the multitude of the Sea is conuerted and the streingth of Gentiles comes vnto thee Enlarge the place of thy tent and stretch out the skinnes of thy Tabernacles spare not make long thy cords and fasten thy nailes behold thou doest penetrate to the right hand and to the left thou art dilated to the East and to the West and to the North and to the South The Gentiles doe walke by thy light and Kings in the brightnes of thy rising Kings are thy nourcing Fathers and Queenes thy Nources The children of them that humbled thee come crouching now aÌ„d adore the stepps of thy feete Thy God hath established thee his throne as the dayes of heauen and hath made thee the pride of worlds a ioy vnto generation and generation thou art a crowne of glorie in the hand of our Lord and the Diademe of a kingdome in the hand of thy God 50. This Church the SPOWSE of Iesus Christ holding in her hand the BOOKE OF GOD doth contemplate and behold therin as in a glasse her OWNE SELF she beholds there her owne greatnes her owne proportion her owne face And such is the rare puritie and perfection of this glasse shee beholds there also her doctrine her inwarde composition her life and sowle The proposition of the Obiect is supernaturallie made vnto her in most cleere and euident circumstances And by the infallible operation of the All-teaching Spirit she is directed in her act By these two powerfull certaine meanes she is so constaÌ„tly setled in her faith that if the world shrink vnder feete shee will not leaue the truth Repeate now the first Chapter and reade there in PROPHECIE that which worlds of people since haue beheld with their EIES and still do reade I saie and consider it diligentlie to the end you may see how one is verified in the other that Prophecie in this Church and this Church in that Prophecie And hereby you will vnderstand at leingth by gods grace both that Prophecie and this Church to be from one and the same cause and prime author whose prouidence and power are so vniuersallie eminent that none can frustrate his designe or hinder an euent which he foretold and therfore both diuine and both from God 51. From this Church and from no other I take my direction for eternitie My owne witte might runne amisse I might mistake in the estimation of the Spirit in mee if I went alone And I were mistaken manifestlie if I followed any that swarued from the Spirit of this communitie And an other communitie like this the world neuer sawe The consent of so many worlds of people in an obscure Creede is an euident argument of a supernaturall cause vniting their vnderstandings It was ouer the world before Constantine and yet all Princes were against it in this consent and consequently of a diuine Spirit mouing them For all these Nations were neuer much lesse all this tyme of sixteene hundred yeers actualy subiect to any one Prince or State and the light of nature doth vnite many in one principle or Conclusion but by way of euidence which is not here in our Creede Further wee knowe that Schollers neuer yet agreed so generallie in things subiect vnto the naturall power of their vnderstanding neither can any man aliue finde out or assigne and defend against a Scholler any naturall cause of this vnitie in beleefe The infinite miracles illustrious and vndeniable in this Church are an euident argument that the Author of nature is in it changing the common course of things to the astonishment of the world thereby to drawe the eies of all vppon this Companie where they may see and learne the seruice of their Creator The vniformity of this Companie of Gentiles to the descriptioÌ„ made before in Prophecie and the Reprobation of the Iewish Nation left now without Temple without Sacrifice without Prophet without miracle without any argument of Gods presence and true seruice amonge them are an euident argument that this Companie and the Messias Church described in the Scripture are all one VVherefore worthily did our predecessors and wee doe worthily rest in the communion of this companie And since mortall man with his industrie caÌ„ goe no higher nor better resolue himself in diuine and heauenly â—â—â—ires being heere arriued he meetes with Gods prouidence to conduct him to securitie Is a man moued to beleeue by example aÌ„d consent here are worlds in our communion and this so ample as the like is no were to be fouÌ„d Is he moued with Miracles here are infinite The blinde see the lame walke the deade arise and of this wee haue as greate euidence as man can desire Is he moued with the common and vniforme resolution of the learned heere are generall Decrees made in Councells Oecumenicall by the wisest of all the world the prime Schollers and grauest men comming
quod etiam ipsi credebant alios autem timore cessissè simulatè consensisse Aug. Ep. 48. See Baronius as the yeare 359. about the Councell of Ariminium which approued the Nicene faith and cōdemned Vrsatius Valens c. Afterwardes happened that which S. Ierom speaketh of when the Councell was neither f◠nor approued and all Catholikes in the world admit that such a Councell might 〈◊〉 of Ariminium neuer approued by the See Apostolike nor euer acknowledged for lawfull by the Church and by your selues also reiected I answeare that there was noe cause of feare that the Church should by that acte be all deceaued and erre in faith for the Church hath alwayes the assistance of the holie Ghost to preserue her from errour in faith by couenant of God the Father and promise of God the sonne as in the next booke you shall heare at large Neither wanted there at any tyme learned men who knew that a Councell wanting the consent of the See Apostolique was not Oecumenical properlie nor an infallible rule of faith 58. If you plead against the visibilitie of our Church with this obiectiō it is weake for the Arians euer found opponēts and those visible such as at last wonne the field If you plead with it against the vniuersalitie of the Church it is also weake and impertinent it is impertinent as it comes from you because those Arians were not Protestantes and therfore their number makes nothing for the vniuersalitie of your cause And it is also weake because their communion was neuer with all Nations nor did euer equall the vniuersalitie of the Church Which is euident because the Catholique communion was elder by three hunderd yeares and was in that tyme spred ouer all Christendome and hath continued after Arianisme is gone these many hundred yeeres in the communion of the Christian world and more Natiōs haue bene since conuerted to it and are dailie and so will be till she hath bene in the communion of them all If therfore you will measure both take each communion in her greatest latitude of tyme and place or Nations and you will presentlie see Arianisme to be too narrowe and too short as not hauing possessed so many Nations nor dured so longe a tyme. Much lesse will you find that begining the same tyme it ranne side by side in an equall or a fuller streame through all ages to this daie and were so to continue if you intended this I should suspect your braine 59. Touching the comparison of it to that part of the Church at least which was at that tyme you thinke it so filled all places of the Christian world that Catholiques had noe roome This errour is of ignorance you may amend it if you inquire of some who did liue then If I should bring many testimonies you would saie I were tedious in matter of historie and therfore will content my selfe and you also if you be reasonable with one from many Authors S. Athanasius a man beyond exception together with diuers Bysshopes of Aegypt Thebais and Libia wrote to Iouiā the Emperour of the Nicene faith thus Know certainely ap Theodoret l. 4. c. 3. most holie Emperour that this same faith hath bene published from all memorie of ages this the holie fathers assembled at Nice haue confirmed to this haue assented all Churches euerie where as of Spaine of Britanie of France of all Italie of Dalmatia of Mysia of Macedonia and all Greece and all the Churches of Africke Sardinia Cyprus Creete Pāphilia Lycia Isauria and the Churches of Aegypt Lybia Pontus Cappadocia and the Churches of the bordering countryes and finallie the Churches of the east some fewe excepted which doe fauour the Arian sect for wee doe certainelie know the sentence of them all and haue receaued letters from them and doe know certainlie most holie Emperour that although a fewe doe contradict this faith the whole world cannot suffer preiudice therby 60. Sixtly you oppose vnto vs want of vnitie I answeare that all Catholiques doe submit their vnderstandings to the iugment of the Church and to the generall decrees of their Pastores and masters readie to beleeue whatsoeuer they generallie in Councells doe define and to reiect whatsoeuer they condemne and by these meanes are vnited perfectlie vnto those Councelles and to the whole Church in faith and iudgment about religion each man in the Church hauing his vnderstanding vndeuided in beleefe from the Church and so being one with it Vnitie consisting in Indiuision as you haue learned of the philosopher lōge agoe Our Councelles likewise are one in doctrine as the partes of Scriptures are though they be not Scripture but declarations of Gods word that is they are vndiuided there being amōgst thē all noe opposition or dissent in decrees and definitiōs ād the later receauing what hath bene formerlie defined wherof hereafter I will discourse a part because as Iulian Porphyrie and others thought they sawe cōtradictions in the Scripture so you haue imagined the like of Coūcelles though nothing so many nor haueing that shew as those had which by the foresaid infidelles were obiected and if you know not so much you are not of that reading your frindes haue taken you to be To your argumente I saie therfore that this companie hath vnitie in beleefe noe man at all in the companie being diuided from the rest in beleefe howsoeuer about thinges vndefinied and vndetermined by the Church in their tyme there might be diuersitie of opinions ād may be now in the like as he knowes that hath bene a weeke in the Schooles of deuinitie The same companie hath originallie likewise vnitie in religion and faith each vnderstanding in the whole mysticall bodie being submitted to the same iudge of cōtrouersies that is to Gods Spiritte in the Church Catholique and acknowledging this one Spiritte and this one Church and this one Spiritte in this one Church iudging defininge determining ruling all VVhich common vnion and consent in one makes their communion so generall so firme and so conspicuous as you are faine to see with your eies against your will 61. A seuenth argument is made against succession and it is obiected that wee haue noe succession of Catholiques or of such as wee are I answeare that the Catholique religion and Church is that whose communion is with all Nations as you haue heard and a Catholicke is a man who doth resolue his faith into this Church and into the Spiritte which doth assist and teach it such were all who did receaue the Generall Councelles before spoken of and the doctrine of the Church present to the tymes wherein they liued which were infinite and such will be to the worldes end If you will haue some assigned more particularly that you may dispute against them I name whole assemblies of pastors in Generall Councell I name the Generall Councells mentioned heretofore In them was our Succession and the Catholique Church in them was conspicuous and worlds of people did communicate with
the Church and the onelie meanes which men haue vnder heauē to be informed of the truth is by recourse vnto it vnto the Church and to the Spiritte in her 6. I will descend vnto particulars and make it more manifest A man beleeuing or knowing that there is a God would gladlie heare what he hath imparted to men of the truth and therfore inquires for Gods word he would esteeme himselfe happie if he could be certainlie directed to it and not cozened with other things in steed of it with forged Gospells and Epistles To this mā the Church doth giue satisfaction by reaching him the Bible and assuring him that she knowes it to be Gods word by the assistance and testimonie of the diuine Spiritte which protectes her from errour in beleefe and this promise she had from Iesus Christ who by miracles by prophecies and other sufficient meanes prooued himselfe to be the Sonne of God You on the otherside who denie this certaintie and assistance can giue him no satisfactiō in the world Next opening this booke he finds it hard as containing many obscure passages about the Trinitie the Incarnation the death of Christ his resurrection the sacrament of his bodie and blood c. to this the Church answears him directlie and tells him the sense of God assuring him as before that she by the assistance of the diuine Spiritte left vnto her doth know is to be so You leaue him without satisfaction to the dishonour of Iesus Christ whose wisedome you call in question withall whilst you denie that he prouided meanes for men to be informed of his doctrine and of the waie to serue God 7. You are more sensible peraduenture in examples neerer home though these which I haue put cōcearne euerie man very neerelie I therefore put you in particular in the busines and on the other side put my selfe The question betwixt you and me is whether the visible Church be iudge of controuersies and infallible or be not what meanes to end it your witte why rather then mine or why either since the matter is diuine The Spiritte why in you rather then in me especiallie since I am in the communion of the Church and you not as I haue allreadie prooued or rather whie the Spiritte in either rather then the Spiritte in the Church I am a part that is the whole I am to learne and by Gods grace haue the Spirite to be taught and directed in the Church are my Pastors and I must heare them by the commaund of my Sauiour why then shall I not beleeue that when the voice of them all is one it is the voice of my Sauiour Iesus Christ Other things allso you question as whether it be in the hart onelie to beleeue or in the mouth allso to teach and to professe whether the promise be executed inuisiblie onelie and in the hart of the predestinate and no where els or visiblie also by publique proposition and profession of the truth These and infinite other controuersies wee haue with you ād with your fellowes now adayes and what meanes are there to finde the truth if you say your witte or the Spiritte I replie as before and am certaine that in fine no thing can be brought but the Spiritte nor this pretended howsoeuer but existent by Gods promise in the Church * Seeing the controuersies in our time are growen in number so many and in nature so intricate that fewe haue time and leasure fewer strength of vnderstanding to examine thē what remaineth for men desirous of satisfaction in things of such consequence but diligently to search out which amōgst all the Societies of men in the world is that blessed company of holy ones that househould of faith that spouse of Christ and Church of the liuing God which is the pillar and ground of truth that so they may embrace her communion follow her directions and rest in her iudgment Thus Field in his Epist to the Byssh of Cant. before his Church But if you keepe your eie long vppon this man you shall see him daunce the round too with his fellowes 8. Thirdlie this assistance doth efficaciously follow out of Gods eternall ordinance and decree about the Church which ordinance and decree he hath reuealed in holie writte All powerfull and wise persones intending Arg. 3 resolutelie an End do ordaine likewise efficaciouse meanes to compasse and effect it Since therfore allmightie God hath intended resolutelie to raise a Church out of all Nations as I haue declared in the former booke ◠Book 1. Chapt. ād since the meanes to doe this is infallible propositiō of the truth it followeth that he hath ordained infallible propositiō there of which proposition being not by externes but by the Church it remaines that the Church-propositiō is infallible Your āsweare is that the propositiō made to the elect is infallible but not the proposition made to the rest I replie that the proposition which I speake of that is the exteriour proposition is one and the same in it selfe and made to all but the elect make good vse of it others do not To put this in example for vnderstanding of it you knowe that our Sauiour did preach openlie and his doctrine was instruction for the elect and was infallible but reprobates did heare it allso Good and bad heard the Apostles preach and their doctrine was the same all men cast their eies on the Scripture and the decrees of Generall Councells are proposed vnto all These all are meanes ordained by allmightie God for the instruction of his elect and therfore by his perpetuall watch are kept infallible though reprobates heare and see the same but make not of them such vse as they ought 9. But to speake of the elect particularly since you desire it I demaund of you whether God doth prouide exteriour proposition of diuine faith and pure and solide truth for them or no if you graunt he doth I haue that which I intend for noe man is so mad as to thinke he doth imploie infideles and not his Church in this busines ād if he doth imploy the Church in it he keepes her from erring in the proposition that so the true doctrine may be conuaied into the harts of his electe if you denie that he doth prouide and dispose things so that the true doctrine be exteriorlie proposed vnto his elect how then doe they beleeue you must studie hard to resolue the question Rom. 10.14 for the Apostle thought it could not be And why do you trouble your selues to preach and write bookes perhappes you haue some other end but why did almightie God sēd prophettes into the world ād afterwards his owne sōne why did our Sauiour sende Apostles to teach Nations if this were not necessarie for the instruction of Gods elect why did God ordaine pastors and teachers and promise that his words should neuer out of their mouthes Ephes 4. Isay 59. why were the Gospells and the Epistles written and
the assistance of the holie Ghost why was it promised vnto the Apostles and their successors why all this if exterior proposition be not necessarie for Gods people and why rather doth not euerie man bid adue to pastors Apostles Bible and all exterior meanes and expect to be illuminated and instructed inwardlie and priuatelie about heauen and diuine thinges Thus euerie man might be master in religion iudge in controuersies and a Church vnto himselfe 10. I will not repeate what you saie aboute the rule of scripture for that I haue said allreadie and hath bene obiected vnto you oft is more then all your fellowes could euer answeare yet as that without the iudgment of Gods Spiritte in the Church men cannot be certaine which is Gods word and what is the sense and therfore you must yeeld at last that the Church is assisted in proposing diuine things by the Spiritte of Allmightie God 11. c. 1. A fourth argument I make out of the promises of perpetuitie made vnto the Church and related in the former booke Heresie Arg. 4 destroies faith if therfore the whole Church were fallen into Heresie it were fallne allso frō the faith it were no more the Church as that is no more a man which hath not a sowle Since therfore it is cleere by the testimonie of God himselfe that the Church cannot faile it is certaine allso that is cannot fall from faith and therfore that Gods prouidence doth perpetuallie assist it to the conseruation of the faith You answeare that the whole Church may fall from Charitie and from the loue of God and therfore from faith allso This would not follow in termes because loue doth suppose faith and therfore if God had not otherwise ordained might be gone and leaue it behind as it doth oft in particular men And peraduenture your selfe do not loue euerie one you knowe or if you do euerie bodie doth not so wherfore loue and knowledge may be parted But omitting this I replie that your affirmation is against the authoritie of holie Scripture Ierem. 31.33 This shall be the couenant which I will make with the howse of Israel saith our Lord speaking of the Catholique Church I will giue my lawe in their bowells and in their hart I will write it Ezech. 37.26 and I will be their God and they shall be my people I will giue my sanctification in the middest of them for euer and my tabernacle shall be in them c. I will despouse thee to me for euer and I will despouse thee to me in iustice and iudgment Osee 2.19.20 and in mercie and commiserations and I will despowse thee to me in faith and thou shalt know that I am the lord By this you haue that the Catholique Church can neuer be separated from the loue of Christ howsoeuer some particular members of it may as some partes of a mans bodie many be without sēse though the whole can neuer be without it And hence I confirme further the infallibilitie before mētioned for holines doth include freedome from errour and constancie in the faith but the Church of God is holie allwaies as here you haue heard and in the Creed you professe to beleeue it therfore it is allwayes free from errour 12. The fift way to prooue the said assistance is the continuall presence of our Sauiour and thus the discourse is made If the Apostles and their successors haue the assistance of our Arg. 5 Sauiour to the preaching of the Gospell and ministring of the Sacraments continuallie till the worlds end then hath the Church diuine assistance since the Apostles and their successors be the Church and our Sauiour God But the Apostles and their successors haue this assistance of our Sauiour as the words of the Gospell do prooue and manifest where our Sauiour to his disciples said Matth. 28 18.19.20 All power is giuen to me in heauen and in earth going therfore teach yee all nations baptizing them in the name of the father and of the sonne ād of the holie Ghost teaching them to obserue all things whatsoeuer I haue commaunded you ād behold I am with you all daies euen to the consummation of the world You know that a coexistence of two things to the end of the world includes the existence of each of them all that tyme. I was not with you all the yeere because I came awaie before it was halfe donne Since therfore the Apostles had not existence here on earth all the dayes till the worlds ēd which is not yet come though they be dead and gone many hundred yeares agoe it followes that our Sauiour speakes allso in them to their successors and consequently to the Church in all ages whilst the world doth endure And by this meanes I haue what I desire in this place that I neede looke no further first the assistance in these words I am with you before which our blessed Sauiour not ignorant of the difficultie which you would make in this matter put an ecce behold I am with you I haue secondlie the parties whome he doth assist to witt the Apostles which were the Church and in them their successors whilst the world endures that is the Church in all ages in these words I am with you all the dayes euen to the consummation of the world I haue thirdlie the obiect of the assistance that is to what kinde of acts and how farre it doth extend teach all nations baptizing thē c. teaching thē to obserue all things whatsoeuer I haue commaūded you Fourthlie I haue here continuall assistance to visible acts for such are preaching ād baptizing ād these are visible to all natiōs since all natiōs are to heare these thīgs ād to be baptized ād since all nations doe not heare and receaue baptisme at one tyme as wee see by experience but some one tyme some another since allso the assistance to these actes is perpetuall and therfore the actes themselues perpetuallie found in the world it is manifest euen by this promise without going further that there is in the world a perpetuall visible Church Fiftlie that our Sauiour cā thus assist howsoeuer he doth bringe it about I haue in these words al power is giuen to me in heauen and in earth So that if wee beleeue Iesus Christ no further doubt can be made of this assistance 13. Out of the former comes another which is grounded in the obligation Christians haue to heare their pastors and to beleeue their doctrine and it shall be the sixt which I will make thus If all the people in the world be Arg. 6 obliged vnder paine of eternall damnation to beleeue the doctrine which the Church that is the Apostles and their successors do teach it belongs to the goodnes and prouidence of God thus obliging them to haue a care that it be right ād true otherwise he would oblige them to erre and liue amisse which is against the goodnes and therfore against the nature of
allmightie God But it is true that all the people in the world are thus obliged as I prooue by the words of our Sauiour in sainct Marke Going into the world preach the Gospell to all creatures Mar. 16. v. 15.16 he that beleeueth and is baptized shall be saued but he that beleeueth not shall be condemned Out of this argument followeth yet further that the Church cannot erre in any thing of faith whether it be fundamentall or not fundamentall incurable or curable great or little for the people are to beleeue that which the Church doth teach and thus God doth warrant in the place here alleaged and therfore it appertaines vnto his prouidēce to assist and protect the Church so that it neuer teach errour in steede of Gods word 14. The seauenth argument I make out of the iudgment of all Christiās before Luther touching the foresaid obligation to beleeue the Church and the diuine spirit in it And here I except onelie such as your selfe shall confesse to haue bene Heretiques and proceede thus Generall Councells did allwayes Arg. 7 beleeue that the Church was to be beleeued and that it had diuine assistance and therfore did accurse all those who beleeued the contrarie to the Church This you know by their acts and canons The people in communion with these Councells did beleeue the same which the Councells did and receaued that which they defined The fathers Saint Augustine Saint Hierome and the rest did the same And the same did all the predestinate who liued in the communion of the Church takinge their instruction from the mouth of the Church and beleeuing as the Church did which is further manifest because those are damned who beleeued not the Church as hath bene prooued in the former argument out of Sauiours words since therfore the predestinate are saued it remaines vndeniable that they did beleeue the Church 15. And here because you some tymes when you haue dronke to much of the cuppe of selfe loue do thinke that you entertaine the holie Ghost better then any of our religion haue done especiallie since you last were in heauen and read your name there in the booke of life I oppose spiritte vnto spiritte I oppose vnto you the knowne Saints of our Religion both late and ancient and obiect vnto you the Spiritte which was in them You haue there Saint Thomas of Aquine Sainct Bonauenture Saint Francis Sainct Dominicke Sainct Charles Boromeus Sainct Xauerius and others whose sanctitie God by miraculous workes and signes hath diuulged Among the auncient you haue the holie fathers and Martyres it were longe to repeate their names here You haue the martyrologe of Baronius there are thousands of them and the places where they liued consult his notes thereunto if you doubt of any And now I argue thus All true Christians in all ages euen from the Apostles tyme did euer rest in the iudgmēt of the Church as infallible beleeuīg what was in the Church before them vniuersallie beleeued ād condemning for Heretiques all those which before were vniuersallie condemned for such And this commō principle descēded through all ages so that whatsoeuer was vniuersallie taught by the pastors as matter of faith was receaued vniuersallie by the people and was approued by the generall iudgment of the Church of God and of her spiritte This I would haue you to consider well and marke againe that the communion of Gods elect was in this multitude which is further manifest first because this onelie is the true Church of God and they were all of the true Church Secondlie by those infinite miracles whereby God hath as it were with a seale confirmed their course of life and blessed end ād thirdlie because the communion of all holie fathers whose sanctitie you acknowledge and of infinite Martyrs putte to death for profession of Christianitie hath bene openlie with and in this Church 16. I prooue the same assistance eightlie by the testimonie of Sainct Paul Apostle and Master of the Gētiles a rule you knowe must Arg. 8 be right and a rule of faith free from errour This you are readie to admitte and to interprete of the Scripture the word of God I graunt is right but there are difficulties which it is which is all what is the sense of diuers places as all knowe by the controuersies now adaies Wee looke therfore for a liuing rule or iudge and certaine proponent of Gods word and meaning Such a rule the Apostle directeth vs vnto ā exteriour visible perpetuall rule to be followed by Christian people and this if it be proposed by God to be followed is infallible by his protection and assistance will you heare the Apostles words He Christ gaue some Apostles and some Prophets and other some Euangelists and other some pastors Ephes 4.11 12.13.14 and Doctors to the consummation of the Saincts to the worck of ministerie vnto the edifying of the body of Christ vntill wee meete all into the vnitie of faith and knowledge of the Sonne of God into a perfect mā into the measure of the age of the fullnes of Christ that now wee be not children wauering and caried aboute with euerie winde of doctrine in the wickednes of men to the circumuention of errour Marke in this chapter of S. Paule how many things are defined against you and your fellowes First the perpetuitie of the Church in that he saith God gaue some pastors and Doctors vntill wee all meete in the vnitie of faith Secondlie the perpetuall visibilitie of it in that these pastors are building all the tyme and that they are Apostles Pastors Doctors whose office is visible and doth manifest their persōs to the flocke thirdlie the infallibilitie of the Church is explicated by the end of the foresaid perpetuall ministerie which is that wee be not wauering Among those the Apostle speakes of you I hope include the predestinate who therfore you see depend vppon exteriour certain cōmon ād in a word Catholique propositiō of the faith a litle before you haue the vnitie of this bodie and of the Spiritte of it and after followes the varietie of functions in this one visible bodie of Iesus Christ including the elect as I haue noted before The words are Doing the truth in Charitie let vs in all things grow in him which is the head Christ 〈◊〉 15.16 of whome the whole bodie being compact and knit togeather by all iuncture of subministration according to the operation in the measure of euery member maketh the increase of the bodie vnto the edifying of it selfe in Charitie Reflect or all this and tell me whether in this Bodie be Gods elect or no whether it be visible or inuisible whether it be many bodies or one bodie and whether this body be the true Church of Christ wherof he is the head 17. But now let vs to our argument againe Sainct Paule teacheth in this Chapter that God hath prouided continuall visible meanes to keepe men from errour therfore these meanes
one of Gods Secretaries a man beyond all exception declares in these words Isa 59.21 My spiritte that is in thee and my words that I haue put in thy mouth shall not depart out of thy mouth ād out of the mouth of thy seede c. saith our Lord from this present and for euer Thus he And the title of it is This is my couenant with them He doth not say my precept the Church of the Redeemer saith our Lord. 28. The first answeare is that the place concernes not the Church of Christ but onelie the Prophets of the Iewish Church But this is against the text it self which doth speake very manifestly of the Church of the Messias as you may see by the words that immediatelie goe before They of the West shall feare the name of our Lord v. 19.20 and they of the Rising of the Sunne his glorie when he shall come as a violent streame which the Spirit of our Lord driueth and the Redeemer shall come to Sion and to them that returne from iniquitie in Iacob saith our Lord. As if he had said when the Messias come into the world a Redeemer to Sion and to those that returne from iniquitie an Israel for when all Nations haue entered into the Church the Iewes will acknowledge our Sauiour too as I haue declared in the former booke Rom. 11. ◠and the Apostle doth also confirme out of this place both East and west that is the world will beleeue And this is my couenant with them the Beleeuers the Church My Spirit that is thee and my words c. The text aboue cited is by S. Ierome translated out of the Hebrew which in his time had noe points into latine thus Time bunt qui ab occidente nomen Domini qui ab Ortu solis gloriam eius quum venerit quasi fluuius violentus quem Spiritus Domini cogit VENERIT Sion Redemptor eis qui redeunt ab iniquitate in Iacob dicit Dominus Hoc foedus meum cum eis dicit Dominus Spiritus meus qui est in te verba mea quae posui in ore tuo non recedent de ore c. 29. The second answeare is that the promise is conditionall and the sense this that God will keepe the true doctrine of Saluatiō in their mouthes if they followe the Scripture and forsake not the truth in their hartes This answeare doth change the sense of allmightie God for it addeth the condition of following the Scripture wheras the promise and couenant of allmightie God is absolute and without condition as were the rest of the promises of sending a Messias and calling the Gentiles and the promise our Sauiour made of sending the holie Ghost after his ascension It taketh also the true sense awaie for the couenant is of effecting the Churches perseuerance in teaching and professing the sacred truth and adhering to his word and this you take awaie And the rest which you leaue is not the sense of God nor of the words as they are in the bible nor any priuiledge at all but a thinge which to Athiests and diuells you doe graunt for you confesse they doe teach true as longe as they teach the word of God 30. I demaund of you here whether you thinke in your conscience that God can continue the visible profession of the faith or no You cannot denie that he can doe it if he will for his wisdome and power are infinite and nothing can be but so as he pleaseth to effect or to permitte and if you denie this you denie that which in your Creede you doe professe Now graunting that he can doe it why doe not you beleeue that he will and doth seeing that he hath obliged himselfe therevnto by promise and couenant as the Scripture doth testifie It is a verie hard case when a mā dares not stand to the plaine words of Scripture and to their immediate sense which they doe offer especiallie a sense which is honourable to God and beneficiall to the Church but will add conditions of his owne as if God could make no couenant vnles he were his lawier to giue him counsell But omitting your trickes as foolish and vngrounded and contrarie to Gods honour and veracitie and wisdome I will putte you in mind of one thing which our Sauiour said touching the prophecies of himselfe and his mysticall bodie the Church Luke 24. v 44.45.46.47 All things saith he must needs be fulfilled which are written in the lawe of Moyses and the prophets and psalmes of me Thē he opened their vnderstanding that they might vnderstand the Scriptures and he said to them That so it is written and so it behoued Christ to suffer and to rise againe from the deade the third day and penance to be preached and remission of sinnes vnto all natiōs begining from Hierusalem Heare you haue heard this preaching of the Gospell to all Nations particularlie by Christ inserted among those things which he said must needs be fulfilled 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 And the couenant which I haue cited is in the prophet and toucheth this preaching particularlie whie doe you then oppose your selfe to Iesus Christ and saie it neede not be fulfilled it must not needs be 31. The third answeare is that God according to the couenāt doth keepe the true doctrine and sauing faith in the harts of the predestinate though they doe not alwaies professe it This will not serue your turne wee speake of profession of preaching the word of God of professing the true faith this God hath promised to continue and this makes men seene and heard of others this makes a noise in the world that all Natiōs may heare and come vnto the Church where continuallie one generation followes an other with the Gospell the doctrine of Iesus Christ the words of God in their mouth Isay 59.21 Harke Puritan the Scripture thunders this in my couenant with them saith our Lord my Spiritte that is in thee ād my VVORDS that I haue putte in thy MOVTH shall not depart out of thy MOVTH and out of the MOVTH of thy seede ād out of the MOVTH of the seede of thy seede saith our Lord from this present and FOREVER Reflect vpō these words This is my couenant with them the Christian Church saith our Lord My Spiritte which is in thee in thy hart and my words he saith not this or that poīt but generallie my words which I God haue put into thy mouth shall not out whēce of thy mouth nor out of the mouth of thy seede c. till when For euer I was about to make an end heere of this part but I cānot for beare adding one sentēce more out of the same prophet in an other Chapter next but one where he declares the perpetuall visibilitie of the Church by reason of the continuall noise which her Pastors make and shewes in part the vse of the foresaid assistāce Vppon thie walles Hierusalem
haue answeared them I goe to the second verse and demaund all the same And theÌ„ I goe to the third aÌ„d demauÌ„d all the same And when this Chapter is done I goe to the next and so on forwards thorough the Bible verse after verse till I come to the last verse in the Apocalyps or Reuelation 62. You will peraduenture meruaile that I doe include that booke too because it is full of obscure mysteries notwithstanding I will alonge thorough that allso with all these demaunds for there are meanes to knowe that it is the word of God and the Assistance of the spirit is sufficient to open the sense of each verse when the circumstances doe require it and you dispute against vs out of it and alleage vnder the title of manifest Scripture free from all ambiguitie the deepest mysteries that are there Moreouer the Prophecies there contained will be manifest in the end as the prophecies in the ould Testament of the Messias aÌ„d his Church are now opeÌ„ to the world The spiritte allso doth open to learned men many thiÌ„gs in the scripture which are hiddeÌ„ froÌ„ the vulgar aÌ„d are not yet by generall decree defined because the coÌ„moÌ„ exigeÌ„ce of the Church requires not the open and publique notice of theÌ„ yet these might be defined if need were as many things by occasioÌ„ of your heresies infesting and endangering Gods people haue bene of late 63. You will allso woÌ„der that I speake of many senses but I haue reasoÌ„ to saie as I doe because Gods word is full of sense as before I said and some tyme so many seÌ„ses doe occurre in the same speach that it is not easie to determine which God intendeth or whether he doth inteÌ„d more theÌ„ one And that I goe not further to fetch examples the words now cited are very hard In the begining God created heauen and earth what is this begining what kind of making doth he speake of what doth he meane by heauen and earth * In the begining God created heauen and earth It is not easie to finde the sense of these words as you will conceaue if you attend and ponder each the begining What is it is it the begining of time which he meanes or the begining of the works of God before he made time or is this begining Gods eternall word or what other thing is signified by these 64. Sainct Augustine a greate Scholler and a man of the Church primitiue and one of Gods elect did search with great diligence and earnest prayer in his ould age for the sense of this place as you may reade in the twelfth booke of his Confessions where hauing acknowledged the scriptureâ—â—o be so profound that it is horrour to looke into theÌ„ he brings many senses of these words and after a longe discussion Aug. l. 12. Confess c. 31. and serious Weighing of the difficultie concludes thus when one saith the prophet vnderstood that which I doe and another that which I. I thiÌ„ke I speake more religiouslie why not both if both be true and if any bodie seeth in these words some third thing or fourth or some other at all whatsoeuer why may not he be beleeued to haue seene all those things by whom one God hath tempered holie writ to many mens iudgments which were to see diuers things then he adds something in commendation of that full kinde of stile and in fine resolues In any wise when he wrote these words he vnderstood and thought whatsoeuer truth wee could find and whatsoeuer wee could not or cannot yet but may be fouÌ„d in them Marke this deuinitie well and remember whose it is 65. I forbeare to speake of the Assistance giuen to the prophets and Euangelists aÌ„d Apostles in all they did write and publish as Gods word which doth affoord me an other argumeÌ„t as hard for you to answere as the former I will not here discouer the gap you laie open to infinite Heresies about admitting about vnderstanding the word of God I loathe to let the world see how scandalous your doctrine iâ—â—â—w you oppose Christianitie vnder the colour of reformatioÌ„ aÌ„d doe what you can to shake the fouÌ„datioÌ„ of the faith that others may stagger in all as you peraduenture doe aÌ„d so the deuill get the day But all your endeuours poore men come to short you shoot your arrowes against heaueÌ„ which they hurt not but wouÌ„d your selues in the returne The Church of God is built on a rocke and a fewe words defend it such is the power of the words of Iesus Christ against all that Heretiques and Pagans and Persecutors and impostors and deuills Matt. 16.18 can attempt Thou art Peeter and vppon this rocke will I build my Church and the gates of hell shall not preuaile against it These words haue defended it these sixteene hundred years against all aduersaries whatsoeuer and wee were fooles if now wee should be afraid Wee are safe wee are secure The sonne of God is our foundation the holie Ghost is our direction and our Lord round about vs for euer I conclude and because you seeme to take the SCRIPTVRE the SPIRIT IESVS CHRIST for iudges of controuersies when you talke at home before your parish to stop this bragge of yours I heere present this controuersie of ours about the assistance to the SCRIPTVRE to the diuine SPIRIT to IESVS CHRIST in these termes whether the Spirit be to teach some truthes onelie which you call fundamentall or others allso which you call not fundamentall The answeare is ALL. Io. 16.13 The Spirit of truth shall teach you all truth These be Gods words I beleeue them and here I rest THE FOVRTH CHAPTER Shewing how Catholikes all beleue the same though some more distinctly then others and the reason why Heretickes agree not 66. THat I may impart vnto you now the manner of discourse which I forme vnto my selfe sometymes in this businesse you must vnderstaÌ„d that the all-teaching Spirit or Holie Ghost is the Spirit of Vnitie aÌ„d that his Organ is the Church wherin he remaines aÌ„d teaches as I haue declared This Spiritte by the foresaid organ or mouth of the Church deliuers the true sense of the Scripture and those which beleeue and submitte their vnderstaÌ„dïg to this iudgmeÌ„t aÌ„d visible tribunall are all one in faith euerie one beleeuing ALL which the Church thus assisted doth hold aÌ„d beleeue and therfore all the same If I thought you coÌ„ceaued not my meaniÌ„g I would deliuer my selfe plainer thus The doctrine of the Catholique Church all together or the collection of points which it holds is but one summe of doctrine or collection of points And not onelie the bodie of the Church takeÌ„ in grosse but euerie Catholique doth beleeue it all And therfore take any two Catholiques whom soeuer where and whensoeuer they liued and their beleefe is the same to the last point or title because each beleeues all that the other beleeues as I haue said But the thing which troubles you
by diuine Reuelation that he is in the Church euer teaching all Truth as I haue declared at large and I haue declared also which is the Church of God but wee haue no diuine Reuelation that he is in N. N. in Iohn Caluin Yea wee knowe he is not in him because he contradicts the Spirit in the Church this Church the Fathers had instruction to the iudgment of this communitie the greatest iudgments did euer stoupe Their practise doth so demonstrate Their books for them confesse it still And this is our practise allso this is our resolution wee confesse it wee professe it wee rest in the iudgment of Gods Spirit in the Catholique Church and to this Tribunall be you neuer so vnwilling you must allso come as I haue declared in this booke and here all * Cōtrouersie must be determined Wee doe not flie the Scripture wee haue it wee haue the Reuerence of Antiquitie on our side and reason pleads for vs but here the cause is ended When you do question the reall presence iustification by woorks S. Peeters primacie and alleage Scripture wee do likewise alleage Scripture and so pregnant that you cannot reallie answeare and then alonge wee goe to be iudged by the diuine spirit in the Church where wee are certaine he is and teacheth all truth When you say this or that booke is not Scripture this was or was not receaued in the primitiue Church the sēse of the letter is this or that Wee examine all and then appeale to to the Spirit in the Church where wee are sure he is suggesting all whatsoeuer the Sonne of God hath reuealed and taught to be receaued and beleeued of men When you pretēd that our doctrine is against reason against holy Fathers against Antiquitie wee produce testimonies of auncient Fathers and reason for our side and then submit the cause to the Spirit in the Church which looking on all truth can iudge best what is most conformable to reason to the Fathers to all Antiquitie And when you say that the Councells contradict one another that there are contradictions in the Scripture Wee are satisfied in these points allso by the Spirit in Church as being the highest Iudge of all cōtrouersies of infinite vnderstanding and no lesse infinite veracitie So that all particular Controuersies do runne into this generall Principle to be resolued and this Principle wee haue in plaine termes from the mouth of God THE FIFT CHAPTER Wherein some exceptions are answeared 82. THe obiections which you and your fellowes make are partlie against the infallibilitie of the Catholique Church in it selfe and partlie against the infallibilitie of generall Councells where Bisshops are assembled out of all Countries to determine commonlie by diuine assistance what belongs to faith and what is cōtrarie therevnto Of this second part it being not the whole Church formallie in it selfe whereof I haue intreated hetherto but the whole in representation onelie as deuines tearme it I will speake a word or two hereafter And will answeare that heere which you bring against the first which is the matter wee haue in hand You are to shewe not that some particular man or some part of the Church might fall of and leaue to be part of the Catholique not-erring Church for that wee see cleerelie in your masters Luther Caluin and others which once were Catholiques ād in the Church of Englād which was in the communion of the Church for a thousand yeeres together and by that communiō Catholique as being then part of Gods Church And is now fallen into schisme and Heresie but you must proue that the Catholique Church may erre in faith or to vse your owne termes that all the Church of God may be in errour affirming and beleeuing contrarie to that which is true in faith 83. And first I obserue that if you did vnderstand your owne principles you would dispaire of the successe of your owne arguments because by those principles of yours all that you can say may iustlie be contemned This I demonstrate for you will either prooue this doctrine of the Churches infallibilitie in the sense wherein wee defend it to be an errour fundamentall or to be some other errour not fundamentall The first you cannot pretend without contradicting your selfe presentlie for you saie allso that the Church cannot erre in fundamentalls and that ours in fundamētalls doth not erre granting withall when you are well vrged that ours is the Church and if you should start backe and denie it againe you will finde it vnder double proofe in another place The Second you cannot as much as pretend to prooue and demonstrate in your principles because according to thē you can take no meanes whereof you are certaine not reason for all men may erre in obscure matters nor Fathers for in your principles all might erre nor place of Scripture for you haue no meanes to knowe certainlie that it is the word of God the place not being one of your fundamentalles nor the Spirit because in not fundamentalls he assisteth not as you say and maintaine in this question or if he doth assist in this verie matter whether you call it fundamentall or not fundamentall he doth assist the Church for to the Church is the promise made 84. Thus you very wiselie haue ouer reached your selfe and left your selfe no meanes to prooue any thing against vs either in this controuersie or in any other for fundamentallie you confesse wee haue not erred and in other things by your owne principles you are not certaine Yet to gull the people you bringe texts not fundamentall according to your distinction and cry out Scripture Scripture the Gospell the word of God And if you finde a place in S. Augustine which neither your parishioners nor your selfe doe vnderstand you challenge vs to the Fathers whereas in your conscience you beleeue for certaine neither Fathers nor scripture but onelie some places which you call fundamentall neither do you acknowledge anie meanes in the world either from God or man to be sure of things not fundamentall as you tearme them as I haue shewed before and the same these your protestant arguments which followe would faine prooue 85. The first argument to this end is made against the Church in the state of the old lawe before the cōming of the Messias and therfore is nothing to the purpose because wee speake of the Christian Church as it is established by Iesus Christ and gouerned by his Spirit which Church is not limited vnto one Nation onelie but ouer all the world and therefore Catholique and of this I haue proued and wee do beleeue that in faith it is infallible Notwithstanding to maintaine the infallibilitie of the Iewish Church too before the Messias came which is an other questiō I resolue your doubt made against it You say the people of Israel did adore the brazen calfe therefore the Church all did erre You should haue prooued that all did adore the calfe that Moyses and the Leuites
this bodie one whereof visible men are members and Predestinate allso members of the same then are there not two Churches of Christ one visible the other inuisible Now it is most certaine by the testimonie of holie Scripture that the Church is the mysticall bodie of Christ ād that this mysticall bodie is but one wherein are visible and predestinated persons therefore there are not two Churches of Christ one visible the other inuisible two bodies one visible the other inuisible but all appertaine to one bodie and one Church I confirme this out of S. Paul who in his Epistle the Ephesians saith that God the Father hath made Christ the heade ouer all the Church which is his bodie Ephes 1. v 22.23 Ch. 4. v. 13. In this Church the Apostle saith Christ put Apostles pastors c. till wee all meete into the vnitie of faith which is till the end of the world Chap. 2.19 Ch. 1. v. 13. and in the same Church are the citizens of the Saincts the domesticalls of God Those which are signed with the holie Ghost of promise which is the pledge of our inheritance in fine the predestinate and S. Paul himselfe was in this Church This one bodie therefore had these two attributs to wit it was visible for hauing in it intrinsecallie and for euer publike persons Pastors Doctors it might thereby be seene and heard and it had in it the predestinate which you call inuisible men whence it followes that visible and inuisible in that sense leaue it still as it was one bodie 105. Fiftlie our greate Pastors fould is one not two as your distinction makes it He hath one fould and that is visible For the Church of God is visible as I haue manifestlie declared before and to this fould his predestinate are all brought out of what Nation out of what part of the world soeuer Other sheepe I haue that are not of this fold a fould wherein the Apostles were Iohn 10.16 men visible to the whole world and wherein their successors are men allso visible thē allso I must bringe ād they shall heare my voice and there shall be made one fould and one Pastor Heere by the testimonie of Iesus Christ the fould the Church is one away then with your distinction beleeue one as wee doe which is visible in which the predestinate people are 106. And indeede where should one looke for our Sauiours Schollers but in his Schoole where should wee looke for Gods domesticalls but in his howse where should wee looke for his members but in his body where should wee looke for holie people for predestinate for Saincts but in the Church And therefore hauing demonstrated before which is the Church this labour might haue bene spared For as I answeared of the Spirit that you should not challenge him till you had prooued that yours was the Church a taske vnpossible so now I may answeare of holie people of predestinate of Saints that you do not callenge any till you haue prooued which you will not doe as longe as God is God that yours is the Church 107. It is verily a ridiculous thing to see what Churches you frame in your imagination One full of words euer preaching all mouth but without Spirit without hart without sowle The other full of the Protestant Spirit but silent and ashamed of her owne doctrine in so much that for a thousand yeeres together she was dombe a church without a mouth The mouth and hart you knowe are both parts of one man the hart is within and is not seene but by the mouth in the mouth it doth shewe it self in what forme it pleaseth to affect The Church too hath hart and mouth hart to beleeue to loue God and mouth to praise inuoake and professe him These make not two Churches they are two parts of one God hath promised these two to one and the same Church his spirit is allwayes in her hart and his words allwayes in her mouth I will aske my Father and he will giue you an other Paraclete Io 14 v. 15 16.17 that he may abide which you for euer the Spirit of Truth whom the world cannot receaue because it seeth him not nor knoweth him But you knowe him because he shall abide with you and shall be in you Thus our Sauiour to his Apostles publike ād visible persons and in them to the visible Church Isay 59.21 Rom. 10. v. 9.10 My spirit that is in thee and my words that I haue put in thy mouth shall not depart out of thy mouth c for euer If thou confesse with thy mouth our Lord Iesus and in thy hart beleeue that God hath raised him vp from the deade thou shalt be saued for with the hart wee beleeue vnto iustice but with the mouth confession is made to Saluation Gods Church therefore hath both hart and mouth in her hart she hath Gods Spirit in her mouth his word and these are not two Churches but one Church 108. Neither doth predestination make it inuisible as childishly you imagine The predestinatiō it selfe indeede is inuisible vnto vs it is Gods purpose and decree and therefore is in God as mans purposes are in the mind of man and those purposes euen in men are secret and hidden till the men reueale them But the predestinated as I said before are as visible as other men So was S. Peeter S. Paul and the rest of the Apostles the Martyres of Iesus Christ were visible otherwise how could they haue bene tortured as they were The Doctors were visible S. Ierome and S. Augustine were knowne farre and neere ād to come neerer to our tyme S. Francis S. Thomas of Aquin S. Bonauenture S. Charles Boromeus were visible yet predestinate whereby it is most euident that predestination doth not make men inuisible they may be publike persons and knowne to all the world and predestinate allso And so may the Church be both predestinate and visible too And is so though euery man in the Church be not predestinate some are there more then number as in a mans body there are some parts superfluous which will not be resumed in the resurrection as I said in the former booke and these parts are like the rest they communicate with the rest they beleeue as the rest but they doe not perseuer as the rest Now which those are that will perseuere finallie which will not God hath reserued as a secret vnto himselfe He hath not as yet made any secretarie coppie out of the booke of life The sanctitie of some in all tymes he makes knowne for the example and encouragmēt and confirmation of others by such signes as he pleaseth such as you reade in the liues of Saincts penned by saincts allso by S. Athanasius S. Ierome S. Augustine S. Gregorie of Nice S. Gregorie the greate S. Bede S. Bernard S. Bonauenture and others who in their workes haue related diuers wōderfull things of holie men and this is a further argument
doctrine and her Spiritte 126. Awake man for shame awake and looke aboute consider what you doe here is a faire waie before you and you like a bedlome runne out of it ouer shoes ouer bootes ouer head and eares imagining notwithstanding that you walke aboue heauen and that euerie steppe is on a starre The Church the Councells the Fathers Apostles Euangelists all are in errour all vnder your feete whilst your chariot is rowld vniformelie aboue the Sunne and heauen takes newe lawes from your allmightie witte I will ascend into heauen Isay 14. v. 13.14 aboue the starres of God I will exalt my throne I will sit in the mount of the Testament in the sides of the North. I will ascend aboue the height of the clowdes I will be like the highest So he that wēt before you if you prick on apace you will ouertake him for he is yet at his Inne ād there to stay an eternall night That past you may iogge on together I loue your person I wish your saluatiō but hate your heresie and make no greate account of that which you most adore your learnīg In the Schoole of errour be manie good witts There the Manichees and Ariās ād Caluinists haue their order if there be any order where no man will be second Aristotles Logicke and Tullies Rhetoricke could not make of superstition true Religion I am not in loue with Hell though in it be greate Schollers the Foulest there was once the Fairest amōge creatures for endowments or nature and strength of vnderstanding I knowe that such as did applaud his cōceipt were partners in his fall I knowe too that all the knowledge of all Pagans of all Heretiques of all aduersaries put together doth not equall the knowledge of the Church It is the Schoole of Iesus Christ who taught a thing worthie of eternall admiration a poore fisherman and on the suddaine too to speake all tongues I speake it to the confusion of such aduersaries of our Sauiour as glory in their skill in others language and do repeate againe to the Rhetoricians he suddainlie made the same man so good an Oratour that he conuerted vnto his Masters doctrine in the face of his aduersaries Act. 2 three thousand with one Sermon he so instructed his disciples in deuinitie that they conuinced Greece the worlds Academie for wit and learning persuaded Rome in the flourishing tyme of her power though she imploied all her force to frustrate their proceeding and in fine to relate many wonders in a word conuerted all the world to beleeue a man God to beleeue a most obscure and witt-transcending Creede In this Schoole wee doe learne here wee are assured of the truth The manifestation of the Spirit is giuen here To one the word of wisdome 1. Cor. 12. v. 8.9.10 To another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit To another faith in the same Spirit To another the grace of doing cures in one Spirit To another the working of miracles To another prophecie To another discerning of Spiritts To another kinds of tongues To another interpretations of languages Can you giue these things can you teach this Schoole in this sort as the Spirit doth or if you cannot as without infinite blasphemie you may not presume you can why do you endeuour to thrust out the holie Ghost and intrude your selfe into the place whie do you thus oppose the diuine ordinance and openlie wronge the sonne of God Auant Heretiques Iude v. 2. clouds without water borne about with winde raging waues of the Sea foming out your owne confusions enemies to the Church to the Scripture and to God auant Wee need not your instruction wee haue better Masters Without you the Church was planted the world conuerted the truth maintained without you the Schooles are full of Schollers the world of Martyrs heauen of Saincts without you the Church hath stoode and doth stand and so will do still The third Conclusion All Controuersies in matters of Religion are to be decided by the Spirit in the Church THE FOVRTH BOOKE WHEREIN SOME PARTIticular Controuersies are briefly discussed THE FIRST CHAPTER Of the Primacie 1. YOVR generall arguments being dispatched in the former booke I shall finde little danger or difficultie in the encounter of the rest of the disordered route and may iustlie in your owne principles contemne them all as I said before in the like occasion and must repeate it oft For whence is their strength from witte or from authoritie If from witt you must not thinke amisse of me if I preferre the witt and iudgment of many worlds of learned mē before yours which hath declared it selfe vnreasonable hetherto especiallie since all men be lyars to turne the point of your owne weapon vppon your selfe and you no God nor Angell but a man If your argumēts haue their streingth from authoritie either this authoritie is of men and this you haue refused as vncertaine because all mē are lyars and you haue laboured not onelie to disgrace the Church of later tymes and the Fathers in their age but allso to take the Apostles triping and therefore their authoritie moues not you Or this authoritie is of God in holie Scripture where he deliuers according to your distinction two sorts of points the one is of fundamentall points and in these you confesse that the Church neither doth nor can erre and therfore the ensuing controuersie is not about them as for example the Incarnation the passion and the rest which you call fundamentall The other sort of points or textes in the Bible are as you call them not-fundamentall and these you do not hold for certaine which howsoeuer you dissemble the matter is cleere for in your principles there are no meanes from God or man to knowe certainlie that they are indeede parts of Gods word or to knowe which is their true meaning Not the witte of man alone for that may erre especiallie in such an obscure point as whether this text this verse be Gods word and not the word of a man Not the Spirit for that doth assist onelie to fundamentalls you saie and these you say are not of them you must answer this heere before you goe further and knowe that of the certainty of consequences it is the same Moreouer since diuine assistance to the vnderstanding of the Scripture depends vppon Gods promise and since this promise is made vnto the Church to the Apostles and their successors you are first to prooue that you are the Church before any man is to beleeue you haue the assistance ād interprete right for arguments out of Scripture prooue nothing if they misse the sense of God and be grounded in a wronge sense For these and the like reasons I might haue forborne to make further answeare to your exceptions Notwithstanding to giue you content I will descende vnto the particular consideration of the chiefest 2. First therefore to make your waie into the Church there to spoile and aulter
Imperatores vero AD ORNANDVM decentissimè praesidebant Concil Chalced. Relat. ad Leonem Papam Insuper contra ipsum cui VINEAE custodia à Saluatore commissa est extendit Dioscorus insaniam id est contra tuam quoque Apostolicam Sanctitatem Ibid. Confidentes quia lucente apud vos Apostolico radio vsque ad Constantinopolitanorum EcclesiaÌ„ consuetè guberuand illum spargentes hunc sapiùs expanditis cò quòd absque inuidia consueueritis vestrorum bonorum participatione ditare domesticos Ibid Rogamus igitur tuis DECRETIS nostrum honora iudicium sicut nos CAPITI in bonis adâ—ecimus consonantiam sic Summitas tua FILâ—IS quod decet adimpleat Ibidem because Donatus Stephanus and Marinus were Presidents in the a Subscrip eight Councell as Legates of AdriaÌ„ the secoÌ„d Two Peeters one an Archdeacon the other an Abbot were Presidents in the b Subscrip seuenth in the name of Adrian the first Two Priests Peeter and George together with Iohn a Deacon were Presidents in the c Act. Conc. Zonar vit Coâ—nstaÌ„t Sixt for Agatho Eutichius in the name of Vigilius was President in the d Zonar in vita Iustiniani Vide Ep Eutichij ad Vigil Petimus praesidente nobis vestra ocatitudine c. fi collat 1 fift Paschasius and Iulianus in the e Conc. Chalc. in Relat. ad Leonem Fourth for Leo great Cyrillus for Celestine in the f Conc. Ephes Relat. ad Imp. Marcellin in Chron. Libertat in Breuiar c. 5. Niceph. l. 14. c. 34 third The Bishops who were at the g Ep. ad Damasum ap Theodoret. l. 5. c. 9. secoÌ„d Councell call Damasus their Heade aÌ„dit became Oecumenicall in regard is was by the Pope approued who before had called a generall Councell but the Bysshops could not all meete at Rome as he had appointed by reasoÌ„ of the Arian Heresie And therefore the Easterne Bisshops mette in one place vnder Nectarius the westerne in an other vnder Damasus who afterwards did approoue the Decrees of both parties and so came the councell to be one and Oecumenicall In the h Subscrip See Card. Peron Replique l. â— c. 35. se qq first Hosius Vitus ad Vincentius were Presidents in place of Syluester And by this induction it is cleere that in the Catholique Church the Popes right of Presidencie was not onely acknowledged but practized euer Neither can you alleage good Authoritie or any one approued Author who saith that euer yet any Priest Bishop or Patriarch was President in any Generall Councell in his owne name and not in the Popes which you should doe and prooue allso that the Church approued it as lawfull before you depriue the Pope of possession which he hath had many hundred yeeres by your confession and euer as I haue prooued and by Christs Institution too who made him in S. Peeter the FoundatioÌ„ and Pastor of the Church 17. As for the Emperours Conc. Chalc. in Relat. ad Leon. I answeare out of the Councell of Chalcedon that they were equiuocallie Presidents not for Iudgment and Definition but for peace and Ornament And so much Constantine the greate whom you preferre before those vnto whom he gaue place will confesse for himselfe and his Successors God saith he to the Nicene Fathers hath made you Priests Ap. Ruffin l 1. c. 2. and giuen you power to iudge of vs you may not be iudged by men wherefore looke for Gods iudgment onely amongst your selues and let your dissentions whateuer they be be reserued to Gods examine You are giuen vs as Gods and it is not conuenient that maÌ„ iudge Gods but he alone of whom it is written God stoode in the middest of Gods and in the middest God doth iudge For Approbation of Generall Councells my answeare and proofe is the same First the Roman Bisshoppe because Successor to sainct Peeter is the Foundation aÌ„d Pastor of the Church aÌ„d CouÌ„cells for him did our Sauiour pray that his faith should not faile he was charged to confirme his Brethren and this will be necessarie till the worlds end Generall Councells haue euer desired his Approbation his definition and sentence in the midst of the Bisshops or presented in his name to them or theirs by him approoued not els hath bene constantlie stood vnto by the Catholique Church at all tymes and no Decrees euer admitted which he reiected and refused to confirme Which Vniuersall Iudgment and Generall consent of the World together with the authoritie of the Scripture make his title so cleere that you shall neuer be able to dispossesse the present Pope of this honour or to winne future tymes to your opinion THE FOVRTH CHAPTER Of the Councells of Nice and Constance 12. BEfore I leaue this matter of the Pope aÌ„d Councells I must answere two other obiections that you make in the one you oppose the councell of Franckford to the secoÌ„d of Nice in the other the Laterane couÌ„cell to that of Constance hereby to prooue that the Church doth contradict her self and erre Touching the former two you pretend that the Councell of Franckford hath condemned the Nicene Your Proofe is taken out of the a Caroline Bookes The reason pretended is because the Nicene decred such honour to the pictures of Saincts as is due to God Of these Bookes 〈◊〉 what Beâ—â—lar doth write l. â— de Imag. â— 14. 15 I answere First that in the Councell of Franckford there is no such thing to be found Secondlie your Accusation is false for the honour due to God is not giuen to pictures in the Nicene Councell but another inferiour wherefore if at FraÌ„ckford diuine honour had ben denied to pictures yet the Councells would agree Thirdlie your proofe or witnes discredits his owne storie and ouer throwes himself for he tells vs that the Councell condemned at Franckford was held at Constantinople in Bithynia If at Constantinople how then in Bithynia Constantinople is in Thrace Nice indeede is in Bithynia See the ground quakes vnder the feete of your argument Fourthlie those Caroline bookes out of which you make this argument saie that the Councell condemned at Franckford was held without the Popes Authoritie See Baron an 794. In that of Nice the Popes Legates subscribed to euerie Acte a Allata est in medium quaestio de noua Graecorum Synodo quam de adorandis imaginibus Constantinopoli fecerunt in qua scriptum habebatur vt qui imaginibus Sanctorum ita vt deificae Trinitati seruitium aut adorationem non impenderent anathema iudicarentur Qui supra sanctissimi Patres nostri omnimodis orationem seruitutem eis impendere renuentes contempserunt atque consentieÌ„tes condemnarunt Liber Carolin in Praefat. b Definimuscum omni diligentia venerandas sanctas Imagines dedicandus in Templis sanctis Dei collocandus habendasqua Quo scilicet per hanc Imaginum pictarum inspectionem omnes qui contemplantur ad
the stile and phrase of speach giues them no satisfaction at all For they so disesteeme it in this respect peculiarlie that in regard of the stile and matter they professe themselues moued to beleeue the contrarie and to put it out of the number of Canonicall bookes If you answere that by the helpe of the Spiritte you discerne it you moue them not for they claime as great an interest as full a participation of the Spirit as your selues aÌ„d therefore you moue not theÌ„ to beleeue as you do But suppose if you will that all Antiquitie stoode on your side what could this preuaile to moue a Lutheran to beleeue the matter or to coÌ„firme your disciples who stagger at your want of proofe what could this auaile I say seeing that it is agreed amoÌ„gst you that the Church that all the Fathers that all men since the Apostles might haue aggreed in an errour 27. According to the grounds of our Religion euerie Catholique can answere easilie that whatsoeuer by the Church of God is receaued for diuine Scripture is infalliblie such because the Church is directed by Gods All-seeing Spirit which can discerne it well And suppose the Catholique were vnlearned aÌ„d that all of you together both LutheraÌ„s and Caluinists should preteÌ„d that in the Bookes there wanted the Spirit of truth aÌ„d seeke to maintaine this with a shewe of oppositioÌ„ either within it selfe or to some other part of Scripture or to reason which thing you doe manie times pretend as Iulian and Porphyrie and others haue done before he would answere you all without difficultie by recourse to the diuine Assistance in the Church which he takes for a principle of Christian Religion beleeued heretofore by the whole Christian world and warranted by God himselfe in cleere termes and would say that the knowledge of the Church thus assisted is more certaine then the contrarie pretense of any aduerse part whatsoeuer and she more able to espie contradiction errour or opposition theÌ„ any other is in regard of the holie Spirit who directeth her and with an infinite vnderstanding lookes earnestlie vppon All. In vertue of which assistance she hath maintained scripture against Heathens and Apostataes and misbeleeuing Iewes aÌ„d Heretiques hetherto and still doth and will doe Further more a Catholike doth not thinke it necessarie that the booke which he beleeueth to be Scripture hath beene euer vniuersallie by the Church esteemed so He knowes it is sufficient if the Catholicke Church hath at any time beleeued it For one of the Principles of our ReligioÌ„ is that the Catholike Church cannot erre at all in matter of faith it cannot erre in any age in any tyme. And this principle hath euer bene beleeued by Catholiks Moreouer that which at any tyme she beleeueth hath beÌ„ infolded in her faith at other times and so virtuallie beleeued euer and by all 29. Now to your opposition Whereas you say that of late onelie some Books haue beene taken into the canon I answere first that such Bookes as your selues doe receaue for canonicall were not all at once vniuersallie receaued in the Church but were acknowledged by degrees S. Hieron de viris illustribus in Paulo Iacobo Petro IoaÌ„ne in Ep. ad Dardan itemque in Prolog So much you knowe by those I haue allreadie named and S. Hierom can tell you more Yet are these allso by your owne confession the word of God and were such in themselues before it was generallie knowne vnto the world As our Sauiour was the naturall Sonne of God and his increated Word before the world did knowe or beleeue him so to be The reason is because mans knowledge is later then the veritie and the more obscure the thing is the longer he is ordinarilie before he can find it out Secondlie it is not so late as you thinke since these Bookes were in the Church esteemed Cit. Bellarm de Verbo Dei l. 1. Vide Baron an 415 August Ep 235. de doct Chr. l. 2. c. 8. Innocent Ep. 3. ad Exuper c. 7. Can. SaÌ„cta Rom d. 15. Ierem. 36. canonicall and diuine though not so generallie as I noted before for you finde them cited for such in the Fathers writings verie oft and in the councell of carthage held in the tyme of Boniface twelue hundred yeares agoe you haue a Catalogue of them all the verie same which you finde now deliuered by the couÌ„cell of Trent sauing onlie that Baruch which the auncient Fathers did acknowledge allso for diuine is after the manner of those tymes comprized with Ieremie whose Secretarie you know he was I adde thirdlie that whereas S. Augustine who subscribed to the foresaid councell doth prescribe a rule for yonge Deuines to finde which Scripture is of greatest authoritie bidding them preferre that which all Churches doe receaue before that which is receaued onlie by some Churches or some part wee now seeing the foresaid canon receaued at length by the whole Church of God and this declared in a Generall Councell must and doe yeauen by S. Augustines rule receaue it all as the word of God and consequentlie of one and the same Authoritie all there being no surer ground of mans faith in such a case then is the Spirit of God in the Church The like I answere them allso who runne to the Iewes canon for the Spirit of the christian Church is no lesse able to discerne a veritie then they were and therefore if the christian Church at anie tyme declare a Booke to be diuine though the Iewes knewe it not wee beleeue it and must For the holie Ghost cannot erre The Iewes knewe not all that God hath taught his Church 30. The second exception is vnreasonable if you consider well what is done and the reason of it All Schollers as you knowe doe noe not addict their studies to the toÌ„gues the Hebrewe is so obscure that fewe doe attaine vnto anie reasonable knowledge of it and none at all in these later times especiallie to the comprehension of the tongue but by helpe of Dictionaries compiled by such as come short of the thing it selfe Of the 〈…〉 or of moderne Iewes not equall to the learned of the tyme wherein the Bookes were first written do endeuour what they can This experience hath taught vs Elias 〈…〉 in Habâ—â—â— Vide Genebrard in Psal 104. Serrar Prol. Bibl. c. 19. q. 6. Aliquoties dixi plurima vocabula esse quorum significatio ipsis etiam Hebraeis ignota est Luth. in Gen. c. 34 it is euident also in the continuation and transfusion of all languages to posteritie and Rabbines themselues doe confesse it In regard therefore that Schollers commonlie vnderstand not Hebrewe it hath euer beene thought conuenieÌ„t the Scripture should be translated into such a language as generallie they doe knowe which is Latine In the primitiue Church this was practised and among you it is allowed allso in so much that your predecessors Luther Caluin Beza Iunius and others
haue made euerie one his owne translation to binde his fellowes there vnto as the best and you haue not yet done translating and changing your translations whereas none of you can denie and all wise men doe see that if one translation could be generallie aggreed vppon it were best Now further because elder tymes as being neerer to the writers had better helpes and purer coppies it is better in the iudgment of all meÌ„ the translation be old and made in those tymes rather then now in this scarcitie of coppies this obscuritie of the language this want of the meanes which then were CoÌ„c Trid Sess 4. This considered the Catholique Church hath decreed in the Councell of Trent that among Latine translations the old and common by the longe vse of many ages approoued in the Church stand authentique and be taken for It is not any where declared by the Church that in the Clementine Edition the Vulgar Latine Translation is fullie restored to the Primitiue Integritie in all parts and words Our beleefe doth follow the declaration of the Church VVhat she defineth wee receaue THOSE who were vsed in the restitution of the Translation saie thus Accipa Christiano lector CLEMENTE summo Pontifico ANNVENTE veterem ac vulgatam Sacra Scripturae editionem quanta fieri potuit diligentia castigatam quam quidem sicut omnibus numeris absolutam pro humana imbecillitate affirmare deffieile est ita caeteris omnibus quae ad hanc vsque diem prodierunt emendatiorem purioremque esse minimè dubitandum Praefat. ad lect Some of Sixtus Bibles might be surreptitiously scattered and Iames might get a coppie but they were neuer openlie sould in Catholike Countries And the Church neuer beleeued the Correction to be so accurate that it could not be amended Decree of a Generall Councell for the fullnes of either correction I speake of them as of two in that sense as Iames doth you knowe there is none A Bull takes not force from the Printer nor from the Secretarie and Iames cannot prooue that Sixtus his Bull was euer authenticallie published By the records no such thing appeares The Church knowes not of it If it had bene it were not hard to accord all Remember what hath ben said in the former Chapter touching pretended opposition in Decrees and what I haue â—eere cited out of the Preface to the Bible such I tould you before wise men would haue but One aÌ„d this one to haue bene made long agoe when it might better be performed and to be lookt on by diuers able to iudge of the goodnes and better able and more impartiall then our selues Whence it followes that the wisest had not the decree at all bene made would yet haue chosen this it being the Old and coÌ„mon translation For it was made in the tyme of the Primitiue Church reuiewed in those daies by S. Hierome compared since by learned men in all ages to such originalls as in each age they could finde and vsed by the Church for manie hundred yeares 30. The Fountaines wee reuerence too and more fullie then you doe admitting and beleeuing whatsoeuer can be manifestlie prooued to belonge iustlie thereunto to the verie last word and letter And it is ignorance in you to say that in the Councell of Trent they be reiected The decree speakes of Latine editions onelie ex omnibus latinis editionibus quae circumferuntur c. and makes choise of one by generall vse loÌ„g before approoued True it is that the puritie of the fountaine it selfe in some places is called in question Calu. in in zach 11. inst l. 1. c 13. and Caluin your Master doth imagine that it runnes not allwaies cleerlie as you may see in his Institutions Luth. Enar in Esa c 9. Luther cryeth out on the Iewes for crucifying the text and what difficultie the Rabbines theÌ„selues haue appeares cleerely by their great Massoreth Wee haue more helpe then you all to knowe the truth in this question too wee admitte the doctrine of Tradition so must the Iewes so must you otherwise you know not which is text Wee haue allso the assistance of the holie Spirit in the Church to declare the veritie aÌ„d power of originalls where the generall necessitie of the Church doth require it and there is no Catholique in the world which is not readie to beleeue their puritie and integritie so farre as there is sufficient warrant for it 31. But how came these corruptions into the Bible this question you should haue putt vnto your Masters for my part I thinke the resolution of it nothing at all necessarie for our purpose Writers might easilie mistake especiallie considering the little difference of many Hebrewe Characters and the nicenes of the points and suppose the points be taken of there will be found some fault in the letters I knowe the Iewes are men and therefore if Gods assistance be not in the businesse their labour in counting letters giues me no securitie for how shall I knowe that their coppies were exact that the letters be dulie ordered c. which is requisite because the disposition and combination of the same letters may be diuers not onelie in one period which may serue to change the sense but in the same verie word and of the integritie in this kinde which is necessarie to the knowledge of the sense as also of the exact integritie of the Coppies which they numbred you can giue no generall warrant Againe besides the difficultie or impossibilitie of this you will be sore troubled yea it is vnpossible for you proceeding in your Protestant Principles to giue satisfaction yeauen to your owne fellowes in any part of Scripture whatsoeuer because you maintaine that all men notwithstanding the promise which God hath made vnto the Church may haue erred and consequentlie S. Ierom and S. Augustine aÌ„d others being men may likewise haue done so in determining or iudging which Scripture or writing is diuine especiallie since each part each verse is not a fundameÌ„tall as you speake I am not troubled at all in the busines but let the learned scanne the difficulties and sift things out remaining euer readie to beleeue what the Church hath or hereafter shall resolue touching the puritie the interpretation and sense of the whole or any part place or word of the text you and your Protestant Congregation with your distinction of fundamentall and not fundamentall haue no meanes to determine the integritie of the Scripture touching bookes parts verses words interpretation as in an other place I haue declared more at large THE SIXT CHAPTER Of the reall Presence 33. VVHen wee dispute you graunt the Reall Presence not able otherwise to make answere to Scripture and Antiquitie but when you dispute you declare manifestly that you beleeue it not You will not beleeue you say that the body of a man can be vnder the forme or shape of breade that the same thing can be in heauen and on the alter too If
the sixt Age wee haue the Testimony of seuerall * Concil Agath cap 470 GeruÌ„ den cap. 1 Aurelian â— 28. Turonens 2 cap 3. 4. ConstaÌ„tin act 1. citat Gaâ—ret Co. Gualt S. Greg. Magn. 4. Dial. c. 58 Hom. 37. in EuaÌ„ S. Aug. l. 1â— de Ciuit. c 22. Councells celebrated in many Nations wherein there is such expresse mention of the Masse as no tergiuersation can suffice But omitting that as allso the testimony of Remigius Cassiodorus Fulgentius and others of that time I content my self with the place before cited out of S. Gregorie because he was in communion with all the world Christ liuing himself immortallie is AGAINE SACRIFICED FOR VS in this Mysterie of the holie oblation In the begining of the sift age liued S. Augustine wheÌ„ Melchisedech did blesse Abraham there first appeared the Sacrifice which is offered now to God by Christians in ALL THE WORLD wee do not erect Altars wherein to sacrifice to Martyrs Idem l. 22 c. 10. but wee doe offer sacrifice to their God and ours The Sacrifice it self is the bodie of Christ And to the Iewes Open your eies at leingth Ibid. and see froÌ„ the east to the west not in one place as it was appointed you but in EVERIE PLACE offered the Sacrifice of the Christians Idem orat cont Iud. c 9.10.6 vide eundem de Ciuit. l. 17. c. 17. l. 18. c. 35. S. Ierom. adu Vigilant c. 3. vide S. Amb. ad Ps 38. not to what God soeuer but to the God of Israel who foretold it In the fourth age liued S. Ierome Ill therefore doth the Bysshop of Rome who ouer the venerable bones base dust according to thee Vigilantius of deade men Peeter and Paul doth offer Sacrifice and thinks their tombes to be Altars and this the Bisshops not of one towne onelie but of ALL THE WORLD doe who contemning Vigilantius enter into the Churches of the deade And Eusebius Bisshop of Caesarea speaking of those words of the Psalmist thou hast prepared a table in my sight c. He doth saith he Euseb Caesar Demonstr Euang l. 1. c. 10. in this openlie signifie the mysticall vnction and horrour-bringing Sacrifices of the table of Christ wherein operating wee are taught to offer VNBLOODIE and reasonable and sweete VICTIMES in our whole life to the most high God by his most eminent Priest of all And a little after vppon a place of Esaie they shall drinke wine c. Ibid. He doth prophecie to the Gentiles saith he the ioy of wine signifying therein somewhat obscurelie the mysterie of the newe Testament BY CHRIST instituted Idem orat de Lâ—â—d Constant which at this daie verilie IS OPENLIE celebrated in ALL NATIONS The same man in his Oration in the commendation of Constantine tells of Churches Altars Vide Cyp. l. 2. Ep. 3. and sacrifices in the whole world In the begining of the third age Sainct Cyprian did liue who saith S. Cypr. lib 1. ep 9. all that are honoured with diuine Priesthood and placed in Clericall ministerie ought not to serue but the Altar and Sacrifices and to follow their prayers and deuotions Our Lord aÌ„d God Iesus Christ is himself the most high Priest of God the Father Idem lib. â— ep 3. and he first of all hath offered SACRIFICE to God the Father and hath commaunded THE SAME to be donne for a commemoration of him Tertullian Tertall l. ad Scapul c. 2. S. Iren. l. 4. adu Haere c. 32. wee doe offer Sacrifice for the saftie of the Emperour to our God and his In the second age liued Ireneus and Iustinus both Saincts the one saith He Christ tooke that breade which is of the creature and gaue thankes saying this is my bodie and likewise he coÌ„fessed the Chalice which is of the creature which is according vnto vs to be his blood aÌ„d taught the new oblation of the new testament which the Church RECEAVING FROM THE APOSTLES doth offer to god in ALL THE WORLD S. Iustin Dial. cum Tryphone The other Euen then he Malichias foretold of our Sacrifices of Gentiles which are offered IN EVERIE PLACE that is of the breade of the Eucharist and the cuppe likewise of the Eucharist c. Ibid. God preuenting doth wittnes all those to be gratefull vnto him who offer thorough his name the sacrifices which Iesus Christ deliuered to be donne that is in the Eucharist of breade and the Chalice which are donne by Christians IN EVERIE PLACE 76. And heere I name againe the Liturgies of the Churches of Rome of AlexaÌ„dria of Ierusalem and of Aethiopia wherein is euident acknowledgmeÌ„t of this Vnbloodie Sacrifice in forme of breade and wine whereof I speake in so much that all these Liturgies and generallie the Liturgies of all knowne Christian Churches that euer yet were of anie note in the world consent and agree heerein If you denie these were auncient I bringe against you all these Churches who professe and beleeue to haue receaued them from hand to hand euen from the Apostles Thus other bookes haue beene deliuered vnto vs from Antiquitie And this Tradition must haue equall force in the deliuering of these bookes I adde further that all Churches cannot erre in tradition of Bookes otherwise you could neither be certaine of anie worke of anie Father as of S. Augustine S. Ierom c. nor of anie part of the Bible since therefore all knowne Churches agree in the receipt of the Liturgie from the Apostles you must beleeue it or else with the same pretense you may refuse the Bible too 77. Next I name the Apostles who taught a propitiatorie Vnbloodie Sacrifice in forme of breade and wine and did also say Masse Our B. Sauiour also at his last supper did offer this die Sacrifice 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Sacrificantibus autem illis domino Act. 13. v. 2. vert Eras remember what I cited but now out of S. Ireneus The Liturgies of S. Peeter S. Iames S. Matthew and Sainct Mark are yet extant as I haue declared by the Gospell in the first booke and the thing is so cleere that you cannot auoide it if you take the words of Scripture in their proper sense as the Church hath euer donne So well is the Masse grounded for which wee suffer now In the Masse you are to distinguish the substance of the sacrifice oblation consecration and the consumption of the sacred hoast or eating of the victime in this vnbloodie forme by the Priest from the Epistle Gospell prayers ceremonies c. the first was euer since and euerie where the same the second not names of Saincts prayers ceremonies might be and yet may be changed by the Church 78. To all this I adde further the testimonie of the holie Ghost the Spirit of Truth and Interpreter of Gods word for that sense wherein the Catholique Church spred ouer the world doth and euer did from the begining vniuersallie consent
you knew me by another and whether I had euer vsed that I could not then readily call to mind You will say peraduenture that a circumstance tied your tongue This may be and therefore bearing respect that way too I will discouer you no further but leaue you at your liberty though otherwise being out of the Kingdome I might be more open then I am You haue infinitely wronged your owne soule in offering to drawe men from the communion the Church and to leade them into heresies opposite directly to the word of God and accursed by the holy Ghost Trouble not your self any further to dresse vp ould shifts that haue beene worne out long agoe If you cannot prooue your cause positiuely as none euer yet could or will doe as long as God is truth hold your peace The more you maintaine heresie the deeper a lodging you bespeake your self in hell That you may escape that gulphe I shewe you heere S. Peeters Shippe fairely vnder saile towards eternitie and will reach you my hand if you wil come into it F. E. APPROBATIO EGo infrascriptus S. T. Facultatis Parisiensis Doctor testor me legisse tractatum hunc inscriptum A Disputation of the Church hoc est Disputatio de Ecclesia in libros quatuor partitum Authore F. E. in quo nihil inueni vel contra fidem Catholicam Romanam vel contra bonos more 's sed econtrà eandem fidem Catholicam dilucidè probatam confirmatam propugnatam horum temporum haereses solidè ac clarè confutatas In cuius rei testimonium praesentibus subscripsi 17. Maij An. 1629. ANT. CHAMPNEVS VIsâ hac attestatione Doctoris Sorbonici censeo idem opus vtiliter excudi posse Actum Duaci die 28. Maij. 1629. GEORGIVS COLVENERIVS S. Theologiae Doctor regius ordinariusque Professor Duacensis Academiae Cancellarius in eadem Academia librorum Censor COurteous Reader I haue beene forced to vse a Printer who vnderstood not the language therefore wonder not if thou find heere errous in the print as diuision of syllables transposition of letters ill pointing c. In mending one fault sometimes he made another and I had not leisure to looke nicely to him If any doubt occurre in the reading be pleased to haue recourse to this place where the chiefest errours are amended The lesser committed by mistaking the letters or omitting or adding where the sense is not changed I will not speake of because he who cannot in reading supply such defects is not able by himself to make vse of the discourse Pag. 51. l. 17. cuppe pag. 52. l. 4. cuppe p. 90. l. 19. sight p. 96. l. 28. the kingdome p. 105. l. vlt. the temple p. 121. marg In Oper. S. Leonis p. 127. l. 16. and Eutichians after p. 146. l. 18. wee are p. 151. l. 13. then p. 155. 19. saue p. 185. l. 20. word p. 137. l. 15. neere p. 195. l. 13. sonnes p. 206. l. 6. abettors p. 237. l. 24. proceede p. 235. l. 7. is not p. 239. l. 25 in Israel p. 283. marg fact And. p. 298. l. 10. reprehend and his making others by his example to Iudaize was p. 300. l. 16. in our p. 340. l. 7. of nature p. 344. l. 6. tripping p. 347. marg vnitatis p. 359. l. 16. iudgment The. p. 367. l. 3. therefore p. 376. l. 14. it is a. p. 403. l. 8. of all l. 22. thy p. 405. marg l. 6. 4. p. 410. l. 15. omit verie p. 412. l. 27. and p. 413. l. 1. 2. it wrong charact p. 416. l. 12. is p. 424. l. 4. hold p. 430. l. 7. a liuing victime p. 433. marg omit Origen c. p. 435. l. 32. if you beleeue the. p. 441. l. 4. testimony of S. Cypr. vnperf The leaues at the toppe are ill numbred but I followe them as they are Some of those English authors which I haue cited I had not by me and therefore was forced to cite them out of others and out of latine so that I may haue missed to giue the same words but haue kept the sense p. 129. l. 28. an 680. Fathers 289. THE FIRST BOOKE OF THE WANT OF EVIDENCE for the continuall Visibilitie and Existence of the Protestant Religion and Church THE FIRST CHAPTER Declaring that vnto Catholikes demaūding euidēce of the Protestant succession and visible existence at all tymes in the world since the Apostles no satisfaction is giuen by recourse to the Waldenses and such as they were IT were good in the begining for the greater perspicuitie of my discourse to define the thing Protestant whereof I am to speake in this booke but Martine Luther and Iohn Caluin your Apostles and authors of your sect or religion as you call it so detested each others doctrine whē they were aliue that they cannot yet endure one definition being dead In regard of this I was once about to leaue out the Lutheran partie which in England is of lesse note and to sute our English with a definition for their turne but this was lothsome to the Puritan who by noe meanes can abide to be shut vp with the Parlamentarian within the same termes It seemed therfore not amisse neglecting all priuate differences to content my selfe with that wherein they assented and to make a generall notion of the Protestant in common This I thought was easie and might serue well inough But eieing the substance of Protestancie neerer to take measure of the thing wherby my definition might be fit I found noe constant being but vncertaintie in the essence of it This substance being as you saie pointes fundamentall and these more or lesse as euery Spirit will which Spirit is diuers not in the multitude onlie but in the same man many tymes The Moone was abroade in the could frosty nightes without cloethes and her mother pittying her spake to Mercurie as the tale is tould for a coate Mercurie taking measure when she was full a fortnight after or thereabouts brought the garment but found her changed and the coate a great deale to bigge Home he went againe to cut it and returning then it was to little and with all his skill he could neuer make it fit the Moone being some tymes thicke some tymes slender in the wast sometymes horned sometymes round Wheruppō he despaired of the worke and gaue it ouer A hard taske it were for a painter to represent Proteus in a picture but it is harder far to make a definition of your Church her essence or substance doth euer varie and is sometymes greater sometymes lesse neuer constantlie the same Yet because I am to speake of it and without some kind of notion this cannot well be I take here a Protestant for a man of the religion so you call it now currant in England and the Protestant Church I take for a companie of such men 3. Now that you cannot prooue by good euidence the CONTINVAL SVCCESSION or existence of this companie this religion this Church at all
tymes euer since the Apostles vntill this daie it is by longe experience verie manifest Euer since Luther and Caluin did begin to spread their doctrine it hath ben demaunded and your men haue endeuoured to make answeare hauing examined to this end and purpose all Bookes and monumentes that are extant and yet after infinite inquisition noe such euidence can be found Sometymes indeed you name some men of diuers Sectes and Religions in which kind Illyricus hath laboured hard but when he cometh to the thing expected that is to prooue they were of your religion there he leaueth you wheras it is this onlie which is expected from a Scholler for euery prating fellow can affirme what he list It were not hard for an vnknowne vpstart to lay claime to a very noble Petegree and greate Dominions but without euidence he will not be admitted and beleeued It is EVIDENCE that wee looke for show the Proofe of that you say 4. Being vrged againe and againe with this you name in fine the poore Beggars of Lions of Waldo their author called Waldenses wherin you doe meerely spend tyme and cozen simple people You know that your owne men reiected their coÌ„munioÌ„ and it hath ben tould you oft Protest Apol. they agreed not with you The matters of your differeÌ„ce haue ben named and are noted in your owne authors and the thing I demanded was your proofe See Prot. Apol. trac 2. c. 2. sec 3 R. Chalced de essent prot relig lib. 2. cap. 5. your euidence where is it where is your proofe that the Waldenses who liued before Luther for of them onelie I inquire were of the Religion now curraÌ„t among you and where is the Catalogue of their Continuall SuccessioÌ„ euer since the Apostl'es time and Euidence of their Communion with Nations and of the publike profession of that Religion in all the world These things I did expect this Catalogue I must see or the demaund of continuall Succession will rest euer vnsatisfied as it hath donne hetherto 5. Those men dissented from you in the point of a Errant in eo quòd non credunt solam fidem absque operibus iustificare Lutherus in Colloq Germ. c. de Suerm Coc. t. 1. l. 8. a. 4. De imputata iustitia nihil norunt Luth. ibid. Iustification Vide R. Chal. de essen rel prot c. 6. which is the ground and foundation of ProtestaÌ„cie aÌ„d held the reall b Confess Bohem. a. 13. and Caluin saith of their Confession Formulam Confessionis amplecti quae sine discrimine in vnum fasciculum damnationis omnes in voluit qui pracisè non fatâ—ntur panem esse prasentissimè Christi corpus hic recitamus eorum verba an fas sit Christiano homini videritis nos certè non putamus Epist 244. presence in our sense wherefore they were not yours Secondly they held sundry damnable opinions which you dare not approoue as that he which is in mortall sinne Illyric in Catal. test de VVald ex Syl. Rain IteÌ„que Anto. Guid. de Wal. dogm Aeneas Sylu. Hist Bohem. Luxemb in Paup de Ludg. 1. Tim. 4. 1. Cor. 7. falleth out of all dignitie therby whether it be Ecclesiasticall or Ciuile and therfore is not to be obayed that lay men and women may eonsecrate and preach that euerie good layman is a Priest that the Apostles were lay men that clergy men should haue no possessions They condemned Mariage a manifest Heresie IudgmeÌ„t to blood aÌ„d oathes Thirdly your owne men refused their communion as you know by c Cam. de Eccl. in Bohem. c. p. 273. Camerarius d Morg. tract de Eccl. p. 79. and 124. Morgernstern e Calu. Ep. 278. Caluin f Melanc in Consilijs par 2. pag. 152. Melancthon g Schlus Catal. tom 3. p. 188. And see Iewell Pantaleon and Osiander of the Albigenses cited prot Apol. Sec. cit Schlusselburg and others and charge them with maintayning obstinately grosse errours and Heresie Fourthly they had no Hierarchie hauing amongst them no Bishops Fox acts moÌ„ p. 628. Sim. VoyoÌ„ Cata. p. 132 Osiand Epitom and their owne tenet suprà nor Priests but al being lay people and therefore could not be the Church of God Fiftly Waldo a Marchant of Lions and an vnlerned lay man who liued an 1170. was the first and chiefe of that Sect so that they failed in the point of Antiquitie and Continuall Succession euer since the Apostles which is the thing whereunto you were to answere And will neuer doe till you putte downe some in euery age and bring vnquestionable Euidence for them which will neuer be 6. If notwithstanding the coÌ„trarie iudgmeÌ„t of your men you will ioyne to their Church and maintaine the Succession of your Church by them Heb. 5. v. 4. Rom. 10. v. 15. Confess Bohem. a. 13. Caluinianos VValdensiuÌ„ CoÌ„fessionem dâ—prauasse ostendit Conrad Schlussel Theol. Calu. li. 2. art 6. who could not ordaine you Priests and Bishops hauing themselues none nor teach being theÌ„selues vnsent you must prooue cleerele first that they had lawfull vocation and ordination Secondly that they held not the forsaid errours and Heresies or you must admitte that you hold them also Thirdly that they did agree with you in all other points particularly descending to each As in the manner of the reall presence the Bohemian Confession doth say they did not but that they vnderstood the words properly as wee doe Luth. supra cit R. Chalc. sup cit Haud scio an vsquam diu publicè suam fidem sint prosessi c. praeterquam in Bohemia in quadam valle in radicibus AlpiuÌ„ Illyr de VValdens suprà Epiphan haeres 61. August haeresi 40. that they held iustification by faith as you Luther saith they knew it not yet this is the sowle and foundation of Protestancie in the iudgment and by the confession of your owne men And so you must on to the rest where you will find many of your owne who will coÌ„tradict you to your face Fourthly you must bring proofe that those men were in the world before Waldo and that of them there was a continuall succession euer since the daies of the Apostles I speake not of those Heretikes called Apostolici wherof S. Epiphanius and S. Augustine speake though they coÌ„demned also mariage and hauing of possessions and therefore held in part the forenamed heresies that is two of them but I speake of the VValdenses I demaund good proofe and euidence that such men were existent in the world euer since Christ ascended And I will not accompt it satisfaction if you tell me they saie so for I beleeue neither them nor you but demaund proofe Bring foorth your monumentes and read vs the names of their Bishops or some of them at least for there were such among them if theires were the Church Act. 20 2â— Ephes 4.11.13 Eph. 4.12 since Gods Church is gouerned by Bishopes there were
was yet with you that all things must needs be fullfilled which are written in the lawe of Moyses and the prophets and the psalmes of me then he opened their vnderstanding that they might vnderstand the scriptures and he said vnto them that so it is written and so it behoued Christ to suffer and to rise againe the third daie from the dead and penance to be preached in his name and remission of sinnes to all Nations begining at Ierusalem I neede not adde any more for by this is aboundantlie showne that the Christian Church was by the intentiō of God the Father and of his sonne Iesus Christ to be in the communion of all Natiōs and Catholique in this positiue sense and that all this infalliblie was to be and would be fullfilled And thus much noe Iewe nor Christian turne about which waie he will can denie 7· Now further least one should foolishlie conceaue that in the primitiue tyme it had gotten to this amplitude fullie and then decaied I proceede and shewe that the same Church is vniuerfall for tyme likewise and indeed this tergiuersation might be refuted by experience because the world knowes that many Nations came into the Church since that tyme which is S. Augustines argument against the Donatists who thought by that meanes to deceaue the Catholiques and delude their arguments of vniuersalitie but here I will prooue it by Scripture And first I might vrge to this purpose the testimonies allreadie cited both because the extent of the Church vnto all Nations doth consequentlie reach vnto all tymes Perpetuitie all Nations and people being not at one tyme conuerted and Christian as allso because some doe expresse a perpetuitie but the Scripture being full I will adde more God the Father in the Psalmes speaking of his sonne amongst other things saith Psal 88. v. 28.29.37 38 I will put him as the first begotten high aboue the kings of the earth and I will keepe my mercie vnto him foreuer and my testament faithfull vnto him I will put his seede for euer and euer and his throne as the daies of heauen c. His seede shall continue for euer and his throne as the sunne in my sight and as the moone perfect foreuer Isa 62. v. 3 4. And of the Church thou shalt be a crowne of glorie in the hād of our Lord and a diademe of a kingdome in the hand of thy God thou shalt be no more called Forsaken and thy land shall be no more called Desolate but thou shalt be called my will in her and thy land inhabited because it hath well pleased our Lord in thee and thy land shall be inhabited I will make a league of peace to them an euerlasting couenant shall be to them Ezech. 37. v. 26.27.28 and I will forme them and will giue my sanctification in the middest of them foreuer and my tabernacle shall be in them and I will be their God and they shall be my people and the Gentiles shall knowe that I am the Lord the Sanctifier of Israel when my sanctification shall be in the middest of them for euer The God of heauen will raise vp a kingdome Dan. 2. v. 44. that shall not be dissipated for euer and this kingdome shall not be deliuered to an other people and it shall breake in peeces and shall consume all those kingdomes and it selfe shall stand for euer To which the newe Testamēt doth consent Luk. 1. v. 33 Mat. 16. v. 19. he Christ shall raigne in the house of Iacob for euer and of his kingdome there shall be noe end Vppon this rocke will I build my Church and the gates of hell shall not preuaile against it 28. v. 20. I am with you all daies euen to the consummation of the world Ioh. 14. v. 15 I will aske my father and he will giue you another paraclete that he may abide S. Aug. de vnit Eccl. c. 13. Mat. 13. v. 30. with you foreuer c. The like is in many other places amongst which S. Augustine doth vrge that of S. Matthew let both growe till haruest because our Sauiour doth expound himselfe by the field to haue vnderstoode the world by the good seed the children of that kingdome v. 37. c. by the cockle the children of the wicked one by the haruest the end of the world so that both are to growe vntill then Lastlie that I leaue not the Apostle of the Gentiles out in this busines He Christ gaue some Apostles Ephes 4. v 11.12 and some Prophets and other some Euangelists and other some Pastors and Doctors to the consummation of the Saincts vnto the worke of the ministerie vnto the edifying of the bodie of Christ vntill wee meete all in the Vnitie of faith and knowledge of the sonne of God 8. This congregation Vnitie Io. 10.16 or Church notwithstanding the foresaid greatnesse ad extension is but one being one fold and one bodie vnder one Pastor and one head Iesus Christ Ephes 4 v. 16. of whome saith the Apostle the whole bodie compact and knit together by all iuncture of subministration according to the operation into the measure of euerie member maketh the increase of the bodie vnto the edifying of it selfe in Charitie By which words wee are taught likewise that this bodie is heterogeneall that is See more of this in the 3. Book 6 c consisting of diuers kinds of parts as mans bodie is whereunto this mysticall bodie is compared hauing in it eies mouth feete and the like in proportion 1. Cor. 12 which may be vnderstoode more fullie out of the Epistle of the same Apostle to the Corinthians 9. And thus farre I haue proceeded in the Scripture shewing you there the Church of God built on a rocke against which the gates of hell cannot preuaile a perpetuall kingdome if you beleeue God that shall not be dissipated corrupted deliuered to another people that shall stand for euer shall haue no end a people that shall be no more forsaken no more desolate They shall haue the Spirit with them abiding with them not departing from them and Iesus Christ with them all dayes to the consummation of the world and the Sanctification of God in the middest of them for euer Into their communion shall come the streingth of Nations the multitude of the sea all kings and people and tongues all the families of the Gentiles all Nations what soeuer They shall be dilated to the East West North and South and shall be multiplied as the dust of the earth as the sand of the Sea as the starres in heauen They shall be as the sunne in the sight of God and as the daies of heauen They shall haue pastors and Doctors to the worlds end the word of God shall neuer out of their mouthes and thy shall not hold their peace daie nor night for euer 10. Compare this now to your Church to your companie which wee haue searched and
hunted after in the former booke but could not get tidings of in all the world before Luther I in the meane tyme will on further to looke out this Church of God But first I would haue you to note that as in the naturall bodie there are many superfluous materiall parts of flesh fatte and some other eauen in the hands eares and eies as you see in men that are grosse which parts though they be coherent now are not resumed all in the resurrection because they would extēd and increase the bodie vnto more then the iust bignes of the man and beyond the originall proportion of the soule So in this mysticall bodie of Iesus Christ are many parts which will not rise with it vnto glorie and therfore are multiplied aboue the number which is written in the booke of life yet being called as many are called fewe chosen for a tyme they doe beleeue but they fall againe before they die Another thing you may note if you please that as the naturall bodie receauing the sowle when the principall parts are prepared doth growe and flourish and afterwards looseth againe the exteriour beautie in ould age So the Church receaued the Spirit when by the instruction of the sonne of God the chiefe parts the Apostles were prepared and then did extend it selfe in bignes and flourished but in her ould age in the daies of Antichrist she will loose her exteriour beautie and maiestie and be greeuouslie afflicted and persecuted for a * The Church in the tyme of her extreame persecution will be visible for persecution it selfe is an euident argument of visibility as in England you see At the same tyme she will be allso Catholique and spred ouer the earth as S. Iohn telleth in the twentith Chapter of his reuelation where of the persecutors he saith they ascended vpon the breadth of the earth and compassed the campe of the saincts and the beloued cittie Vpon which words cleere enough in themselues S. Augustine in his bookes De cluitate Dei writeth thus They are not said to come into one place as though the campe of the Saincts or the beloued Cittie should be in some one place since this indeed is nothing but the Church of Christ spred ouer the whole world And therefore wheresoeuer this Church shall be then which shall be in all Nations for so much is insinuated by the latitude of the earth there shall be Gods beloued Cittie there shall she be beseiged by all her enimies for they allso shall be in all Nations with her So he li. 20. c. 11. Moreouer that extreme persecution of Antichrist shall be very short as enduring some three yeeres and a halfe which the Scripture allso hath declared He Antichrist shall thinke that he can change tymes and lawes and they shall be deliuered into his hāds euē to a tyme tymes ād halfe a tyme. Dan 7.25 Power was giuen to it the Beast to worke two ād fortie monethes Ap. 13.5 They shall tread vnder foote the holy Cittie two and fortie monthes Ap. 11.2 From the tyme when the Continuall Sacrifice shall be taken away and the abomination shall be set vp 1290. Dayes Dan. 12.11 See allso Ap. 12. v. 6. 14. tyme as S. Iohn doth foretell But now to finde this Church THE SECOND CHAPTER The Catholique Church assigned 11. HAuing seene the picture of the Catholique Church as in Scripture it hath beene drawne by God himselfe it is not hard for him that will cast an eie vpon the world and compare this picture with the communities he finds there to discouer among all Churches and congregations which is the Catholique or to learne it if he will but aske the question of any man For all S. Aug. de vera relig c 7. and euen Heretiques ād Schismatiques as S. Augustine longe agoe did obserue when they talke not with those of their owne sect but with others do whether they will or no call no other Catholique but the Catholicke because they cannot otherwise be vnderstood vnles they designe her by that name which the whole world calles her by Men generally being demaunded which are Catholiques point at vs and being asked which Church is the Catholique do direct vnto that which is in cōmunion with the Roman See This was knowne to be the Catholique Church in the tyme of S. Paul this was acknowledged to be the Catholique Church in the tyme of S. Augugustine and S. Gregory and euer since and is now Aske all Christians such only excepted as your selues condemne for heretiques and they will tell you so Aske Iewes and Pagans and they will tell you this is the Church of Iesus Christ aske your fellowes White Cowell and such others and they will send you to this 12. If a man should haue come to Luther when he did looke round about for companie and found none of his opinion and should haue said vnto him Sir Luther in the Bible there is an ample description of a perperuall Catholique Church I pray you which is it that I may be Christian in communion of that Church Your Doctor for his hart could haue directed to no other then to that Congregation which then was in communion with the Bysshop of Rome For to you he could not haue directed him because poore men you were not in the world as yet with your Religion nor euer deserued the name of Catholique as in the former booke to your confusion hath beene seene To haue said that he a sole man was the Catholique Church which the Scripture speakes of had bene to multiplie himselfe ouer the world into many Nations and into millions of men at once To the Iewes or Pagans he could with no face haue sent him and had he done so they would haue giuen him the lie It rests therefore that Luther and so Caluin so Iewell must haue directed him to vs and haue tould him the Catholique Church is that which hath and still had communion with the Roman See 13. I knowe some of your fellowes would send a man to the Grecians and some further to the Aethiopians but these are not Protestants as the Grecians declare them selues and by the Aethiopians doctrine he may see that is not blind Neither hath the Grecian beleefe in those things wherein they differ from the Church of Rome euer bene in the generall communion of the Christian world and therefore Grecisme is not nor euer was Catholique and the same it is of Aethiopians and all others Another shift you haue and this is to say the Catholique Church is inuisible among the Romans the Grecians Aethiopians Germans and others but lies hid This would trouble the man surely for how should he be instructed by her and imbrace her communion vnles he could find her and how should he finde her if she did not appeare but were inuisible moreouer he would say that the Church which the Scripture hath described is there also declared to be perpetually visible with gates euer open the