their opinions and forward to engage in termes of contradiction and when they are once heated with a fond affection to their owne fancies which is the more blowne up by the breath of an opposite they are not masters of their owne words nor can they exercise any reasonable rule either upon their spirits or speeches and sometimes they second their precipitancie in both with such a pertinacie of will and stoutnesse of stomach that they choose rather to cast firebrands about to put Nations and Churches into a dangerous combustion then quietly to compose any personall quarrell of their owne though never so inconsiderately stirred up by them this is the extremitie of that malignant and mischievous practice which God professeth especially to hate Prov. 6.19 And for the opprobrious termes he complaineth of if he had the patience to beare them when he heard them and did not reciprocate one contumely for another as some say he did he should have had the prudence and to that should have advised him had I been of his counsell to have buried them in silence and not for that which was but whispered in the eare to propose it to publique view that every one may read the reproach of K. and F. put upon him in print SECT VIII The Argument against the speedy setting up of the Presbyteriall Government taken from Christs practise answered A Second exception reduced to the example of Christ in his practise is that * § 3. p. 4. Christ Iesus himselfe could as easily have setled his Government by miracle as any can now by Civill power if there had beene such a primary or morall necessitie of establishing it so soone upon a people scarce enlightened for any part of it But we see the contrary first in himselfe he taught long and Iohn before him and so the Disciples and the gifts for Government were not given till he ascended and the modell for Government was not brought forth but by degrees and as people fell in and were capable of the yoke and would mould more easily to the Commandements of Christ and whether then or no is yet a Question which some have sit the debates to though not with me who am fully perswaded of the power of order which the Apostle ioyed to behold though a power with as little dominion in government as tradition in worship Answer 1. The acts and times for the Divine providence towards his Church are various and the reasons of them many times reserved to God he could no doubt have governed his Church in the first age of the world by the scepter of his written word but there was no Scripture till God wrote his Decalogue or ten Commandements in Tables of stone Exod. 31.18 and if the Booke of Genesis were written before it was yet after the birth of Moses for he was the Penman of it who was not borne till the yeare of the world 2373. all this while God had his Church and no written Law for the government of it Yet when he brought the Israelites out of Egypt which was in the yeare 2454 the next yeare after he gave direction for the building of a Tabernacle and to the Morall Law forementioned added Lawes Ceremoniall and Iudiciall divers of which were not to be put in execution untill their coming into Canaan which was well neere fortie yeares afterward so farre was he before-hand with the government of his Church of the new edition 2. Whereas he saith that Iesus Christ could have as easily setled the government of his Church by miracle as any can now by Civill power we grant it yea and more that he could have done it without a miracle and yet more that he did so when he chose Apostles and gave them the keyes of the Kingdome of heaven Matth. 16.19 for remission and retaining of sinnes Ioh. 10.23 and set downe a rule of graduall proceeding with offenders Matt. 18.15 16 17. 3. If it be said that this was late in the Ministery of our Saviour and therefore we must take his example not onely for the thing it selfe but for the time this will make more for the Anabaptisticall delay of Baptisme then for delay in Discipline or Government for he was not baptized untill he was about thirty yeares of age Luk. 3.23 but he began to set up a government of his Church within the compasse of his publique Ministery which at the most lasted but foure yeares space and many learned men confine it to three yeares and an halfe or thereabouts As for Iohn Baptist his time was shorter for he was beheaded in the second of the foure yeares forementioned nor did it belong to his Office to set up a government in the Evangelicall Church but to prepare the way of the Lord by preaching repentance unto the people Matth. 3.3 Isa 40.3 4. Whereas he saith the gifts of government were not given till Christ ascended to that it may be answered 1. That he ascended fortie three dayes after the period of his publique Ministration which added to the yeares forementioned make but small difference as to the government in question 2. That though he gave them an increase of gifts for government as he did for preaching he put his Apostles upon neither of those offices without competent gifts and qualifications for them 5. For the model of government which he saith was brought forth by degrees as people fell in and were capable of the yoke I would know what model he meaneth if he meane any model of Christ or his Apostles as it appeareth he doth for saith he against Mr. Colemans opinion I am fully assured of a power of order which the Apostle reioyced to behold Col. 2.5 I aske whether this be given by tradition or contained in the Scripture I suppose he will say of Government as well as of Worship not by tradition but by the written word and if so though it were but young in the time of Christ or his Apostles it is very ancient to us for we have no part of the written word but it is fifteene hundred yeares of age at least why then should that which is so old in constitution be thought too soone to be put in execution at the present especially since besides the direction for it in the Scripture we have had these many yeares severall patterns of it in many reformed Churches in the Christian world Nor doe our brethren of Scotland though they assert it from Scripture to be the will of God expect that the Parliament should establish it Jure Divino * M. Gelaspi◠his brotherly examination of M. Colemans Sermon p. 32 33. If they shall in a Parliamentary and Legislative way establish that thing which is really and in it selfe agreeable to the word of God though they doe not declare it to be the will of Iesus Christ they are satisfied If it be best as his words imply that the government be brought in by degrees so it is in the present reformation for it
advers haeres l. 3. c. 3. post eum Eusebius when he suddenly got out of the Bath so soone as the Heretick Cerinthus came into it fearing it would fall upon his head and theirs who accompanied him and so it did so soone as Iohn was departed out of it And there is in some an aversion from Heresie Schisme and Profanenesse out of hatred of whatsoever is opposite to the glory of God and to the safety of man and this hate is a great evidence not of a causelesse jealousie but of a true zeale and love of God and man Hence was it that a Iren. advers haeres l. 3. c. 3. Polycarp the Disciple of Iohn a Scholler of a religious temper like his Master was so adverse to Marcion the Heretick that when scraping acquaintance of him he asked him whether he knew him or no he answered he knew him to be the eldest sonne of Satan and that b Hilary against Auxent p. 217. Hilary speaking against Auxentius an Arian Heretick said he would never speake otherwise of him then as of a Devil incarnate and that Hierome c Hieron in Psal 5. Tom. 8. p. 4. called Hereticks men of blood who daily shed the blood of soules and d Hieron Prâ—log in Dial. advers Lucif Tom. 2. p. 263. averred that as he had never spared Hereticks so he never would and that he studiously desired to make those his enemies who were enemies to the Church There be many other causes then besides a Popish or Prelaticall jealousie arising out of guilt or mistrust of the weakenesse or crasinesse of the cause which make the godly desirous of a prevention oâ— suppression of Heresie and Schisme and sincerely to endevour the compleat establishment of puritie and unitie in the Church of God But I will take up with that one of the Lords and Commens in Parliament Assembled their Ordinance of the 20. of October 1645. concerning rules for receiving of the Sâ—â—rament of the Lords Supper which is the Obligation of Religious gratitude to God piously acknowledged in this patheticall expression The Lords and Commons considering the wonderfull providence of God in calling them to this great and difficult worke of reforming and purging his Church and people his guidance and manifest protection of them in it doe acknowledge that never any of his servants since the foundation of the world had more high and strong engagements heartily and sincerely to endevour the compleat establishment of puritie and unitie in the Church of God then they have they doe therefore require all Ministers and Elders c. And if Mr. Saltm had well considered who were engaged for the establishment of Church Government and how farre before he published his New Quere he would not surely have so farre undervalued their Pietie and Prudence as to compare them to Papists and Papall Prelates and melancholy men who thinke every thing they meet will kill them I will conclude my Reply to his Answer with a piece of his a M. Salâ—m pol. 201. p. 174. own politick advice in three particulars 1. To suspect plausible and faire language in him whose person may render him suspicious and such for the most part are seducing Schismaticks and Hereticks who by good words and faire speeches deceive the heart of the simple Rom. 16.18 2. b Ibid. pol. 228. To study to remove the occasions of faction and heresies 3. c Ibid. pol. 246. In factious stirres if it be requisite to muster forces with all expedition for appalling them and thus saith he you weigh downe the weight of one scale with the weight of another And it is no lesse a part of prudence to prevent them then to supplant them Vpon such principles as these in part is Church Government ordained and there being so many and stirring factions it is with as much speed as with conveniencie may be to be settled as a remedy against them There is nothing more in his Answer but a Text out of the Revelation it is Chap. 18. v. 1. which with the word For is brought in as a proofe of what was last spoken and as a seale to close up the totall summe of his resolution of this New Quere thus For the Angel that cometh downe from heaven hath great power and the earth is lightneâ— with his glory But this serves to none other purpose but to shew that as he began so he endeth his paper with misapplication of Scripture SECT XIII An additionall Answer to some exceptions of Mr. Saltm taken out of Mr. Prinnes Vindication against the present establishment of Church Government in his late Booke entituled The opening of Mr. Prinnes new Booke called a VINDICATION IN this Booke which he nameth The opening of Master Prinnes new Booke called a Vindication the Authour hath opened himselfe plainly to be an Independent at least and opposite to the Presbyteriall Government which he hath formerly disavowed when in conference with him I desired him to declare to which part he inclined as Section the first hath beene observed I shall present the Reader with so much of the matter in this New Booke as I find symbolicall to the sense and resolution of his New Quere the summe whereof is in his last answer of P. to C. of which two letters representing two persons in conference Dialogue wise it is very probable P. may stand for Presbyterian but for C. to me it is very doubtfull whether it be put for the name of my reverend Brother Mr. Coleman whom he citeth in the fourth page of his New Quere or whether C. stand for Congregationall or if I did not conceive him to be of a better spirit then I have observed in many Antipresbyterian Scriblers I would thinke C. stood for Christian with intimation that the Presbyterian government is Antichristian but I cannot censure so of him especially since he professeth to honour Presbyterians as beleevers and brethren in the Lord brethren as Christians not his brethren as Presbyters if it be true which I heare that he preacheth not as a Presbyter but as a gifted brother but this but by the way that which in this Book we are now to observe is that P. as convinced and converted by C. is made to say P. Well I am at this time well perswaded p. 23. Of the opening and having heard all this for my part I cannot but see that in settling things suddenly upon this Kingdome and things thus questionable and unwarrantable in the way of administration and a Kingdome so full of impenitent and scandalous sinners as Parochiall Congregations generally are there is danger of great sinne and great trouble Answer This may be true if government whereby the scandalous will be severed from the religious be either not established at all or too long deferred but that it may not be set up at all or not so soone as is necessarie he brings some proofes from Mr. Prinnes Vindication which he endevours to disprove and
* M. Robert Baylie his Disswasive from the errours of the time wherein the Tenets of the principall Sect of the Independ are drawne together in one Mappe Printed for Sam. Gellibrand at the Brasen Serpent in Pauls Church-yard exact delineation or description of the whole body of Schismaticall and Hereticall noveltie drawne by a very skilfull and faithfull hand and newly published to undeceive the English especially the people of the City of whom many are miserably misled and more will be if both Magistrates and Ministers doe not watchfully overlooke them and seriously sot themselves to prevent their increase Wherein your Lordships prudence and power beginning betime and continuing your care in a proportionable tenour untill your Office expire which is the expectation of all that know the soliditie of your judgement and stability of your spirit may prevaile very much though it be but for an yeare for how great matters in how short a time have beene attempted and accomplished by that worthy Generall Sr. Thomas Fairfax undertaking and prosecuting the warre with a couragious and constant resolution not as a Trade to enrich himselfe but as a Remedy to deliver his Countrey from partly present and partly imminent miseries And for that purpose your Lordships Sword in the City may be of very great use as his in the field and that with both the Sword of the Lord may be associated as with the Sword of Gideon Iudg. 7.18 and his power may still support your state protect your person and promote your proceedings to most happy successe is the hearty desire and shall be the daily prayer of Your Honours most humble servant JOHN LEY An Advertisement to the Reader to prevent mistaking in the variety of Petitions IN the Postscript of the late Answer to Mr. Burton from Aldermanbury entituled The doore of truth opened there is an Apologetical Reply to his tart reproofe of a London Petition in these words There is one thing that Mr. Burton mentioneth in the * Pag. 2. ante med Narrative which though it concerns not Aldermanbury yet we must not wholly bury it in silence and that is concerning the late large Petition for the speedy establishment of Religion Of which he speakes very dishonourably as also of the Petitioners as of men led with blind obedience and pinning their soules upon the Priests sleeve We leave it to the Petitioners to answer for themselves For our parts we conceive that no Reader unlesse blinded with prejudice can charge them with blind obedience For the Petitioners doe not desire to have the Modell of that Reverend Assembly established but the government of Christ established a Modell whereof c. These words a Modell whereof c. come in with a Parenthesis and the sentence is compleat without them all that they affirme about the Modell is that the Reverend Assembly hath framed a Modell of the Government of Christ according to their ability and presented it to the Parliament And who but he that hath pinned his faith upon an Independents sleeve can except against this But if Mr. Burton be displeased with the Modell of the Reverend Assembly we would intreat him that he at last after so long expectation would set forth his Modell Which some have mistaken conceiving both parties speake of the late Petition sent from the Common Councell of London whereas there be these differences betwixt them 1. That Petition is of a different style tenour and date from this of the Common Councell for it was brought forth to light before this later was conceived 2. That hath the Parenthesis a Modell whereof the Assembly of Divines c. specified in the Exception and Answer the Petition of the Common Councell hath no such clause in it as I am informed for yet I have not seen it 3. That was never presented by the Petitioners to the Parliament this of the Common Councell was 4. The Petition of the Common Councell was not printed that was priuted both in a single sheet and in the Booke called Truth it 's Manifest p. 130. Which I note in this place because having denyed that the Petition of the Common Councell was yet printed a Gentleman of qualitie said he would shew it me presently and produced for proofe the Booke forementioned 5. Lastly the former Petition had not so good acceptance with the Parliament as the later partly hath had and partly may be further hoped for when the Honourable Houses have opportunitie to make their returne unto it The Contents Section I. OF the Authour and Title page of the Quere and Deter mination upon it Page 1. Sect. II. Of the Title page p. 3. Sect. III. The matter and scope of the Quere and resolution upon it p. 7. Sect. IIII. Reasons against the present settling of government taken from conscience answered p. 12. Sect. V. The Argument against the speedy settling of Church government taken from eâ—ample of the New Testament in generall answered p. 14. Sect. VI. The Argument against the speedy establishment of Church government taken from Christs description answered p. 17. Sect. VII Master Colemans experimentall exceptions against the severity and rigour of the Presbyteriall government answered p. 20. Sect. VIII The Argument against the speedy setting up of the Presbyteriall government taken from Christs practise answered p. 23. Sect. IX Reasons taken from rules and considerations of prudence answered p. 26. Sect. X. The Negative Argument taken from want of experience of the New Clergie answered p. 32. Sect. XI Objections against the Reasons for the not establishing Church government propesed and answered as Objections against M. Saltm his Tenet in the Quere with Replyes to his answers The first Observation his Answer and the Reply unto it p. 36. Sect. XII Objection second answered with a Reply to that Answer p. 38. Sect. XIII An additionall Answer to some exceptions of M. Saltm taken out of M. Prins Vindication against the present establishment of Church government in his late Book entituled The opening of M. Prins New Book called a Vindication p. 45. Sect. XIIII The Objections taken from a supposed needlesnesse of the Presbytery answered p. 47 Sect. XV. Of M. Colemans Interiâ—ist is all Magistracle p. 51. Sect. XVI The Objection of eager contestation for Church Discipline and 〈…〉 p. 53. Sect. XVII The Objection of inefficacie for holinesse of life in such as live under the Presbytery answered p. 57. Sect. XVIII Shewing what might be retorted upon the Antipresbyteriall party but concluding for unitie and peace with allegation of M. Burroughs his propositions of reconciliation and accord and some other particulars tending thereto p. 61. Sect. XIX Further grounds and hopes of union in the Churches of the Sister Kingdomes of England and Scotland with Answers to the Objections that are made against it p. 64. Sect. XX. An Appendix to the precedent Examination being an Apologeticall Narrative of the Petitions of the Common Councell of the City and Ministers of London presented to both the
confute in other particulars and I am willing to take notice of them rather from him then from Mr. Pr. though I have read them in his Booke for divers reasons 1. Because Mr. P. is a friend to the Presbyteriall government having both a M. Prinne his Vindication p. 56. pleaded for it and beene persecuted as he saith by Sectaries and Independents for his good will unto it 2. Because he b So in the Epistle to the Reader before his Vindicat. fol. 2. p. 2. professeth to love and honour with his soule the Assembly of Divines and hath in a booke of purpose vindicated them from Libellous aspersions of the Antipresbyterians I confesse Mr. Saltm was once so reverently and religiously conceited of them that he honored them in print with the Title of a most Sacred Assembly in a c M. Salem his Dedication of the Examinations or the Discovery of some dangerous positions delivered in a Sermon of Reformation in the Church of the Savoy on the Fast day July 26. 1643. by Tho. Fuller B. D. Dedication of a little book unto them some of whom my selfe for one desired him to forbeare that Title in the rest of the Copies which were not then wrought off from the Presâ—e but being so farre engaged against the Presbyteriall way as now he is I cannot thinke he hath so good either opinion of or affection to the Assembly as formerly he hath professed unto them and towards them 3. Because I am confident that whatsoever Mr. P. writeth though I approve not all that is set out in his name he writeth with a very upright and sincere heart without any sinister end or aime at gaine to himselfe or glory with men 4. Because I have found him so kind to me in severall kinds that I am loth to take him for an adversary in any publique contestation and yet I shall take the boldnesse as just occasion shall induce me to use the freedome of a friend unto him and to be true to the truth without partiall respect to friend or foe 5. Because Mr. Pr. doth not write what Mr. Saltm alleadgeth out of him against expedition in the setting up of Presbyteriall government much lesse finally to suppresse it which seemes to be the desire and endevour of Mr. Saltâ—â— SECT XIIII The objections taken from a supposed needlesnesse of the Presbytery answered THat which he produceth against the Presbytery in Mr. Prinnes name consisteth chiefly of two particulars 1. That there is no necessitie of it that it should be established 2. The want of efficacie in it where it is established For the first he produceth a remarkable passage as he cals it out of Mr. Prinnes Vindication in these words And if our Assembly and Ministers will but diligently preach against that catalogue of scandalous sinnes and sinners they have presented to the Parliament and the Parliament prescribe severe Tem porall Laws and punishments against them and appoint good Civill Magistrates to see them duely executed and inflicted I am confident that this would work a greater Reformation in our Church and State in one halfe yeare then all the Church Discipline and Consures now so eagerly contested for will doe in an age and will be the onely true way and speediest course to reforme both Church and State at once which I hope the Parliament will consider of and take care that our Ministers like the Bishops formerly may not now be taken up with ruling and governing but preaching and instructing which is worke enough wholly to engrosse their time and thoughts Answer This saying of Mr. P. I see beginneth to be had in honour by out Independent Brethren for it is the Alpha of Mr. S.E. and Mr. T.T. their defence of positions it is as the Omega of Mr. S. his answer to Mr. Prins Vindication and I wish the Authour of it may have so much of it from the better sort of them as may make him some amends for the contumelies and calumnies he hath suffered from the worse and if Mr. P. his Testimony be so authentick with them but with most of them I know it is not it may not be amisse to minde them not of a piece of a lease but of whole a Independencie examined unmasked refuted by 12. new partiâ—ular Interrogatories detecting both the manifold absurdities inconveniences that must necessarily attend it to the great disturbance of Church State the diminution subversion of the lawfull undoubted power of all Christian Magistrates Parliaments Synods and thaking the chiefe pillars wherewith its Patrons would support it And A fresh discovery of some prodigious New wandering-blazing starres and firebrands c. Books of his making against their way The words forecited containe three things 1. A remedie against scandalous sinnes and the sufficiencie of that remedie without Church-Discipline and Censures so eagerly contended for 2. An hope that the Parliament will consider of and take care that Ministers may not like Bishops formerly be taken up with ruling and governing 3. A reason of that hope because preaching and instructing is work enough to engrosse their time and thoughts 1. For the first the Remedy prescribed against scandalous sinnes If our Assembly and Ministers will but diligently preach against that Catalogue of scandalous sinnes they have presented to the Parliament and the Parliament prescribe severe Temporall Laws and punishments against them and appoint good Civill Magistrates to see them duely executed and inflicted Answer Here is lesse required of the Ministers then is performed by many of them more promised concerning Lawes Punishments and Magistrates then without presumption can be expected by any For 1. For the Ministers they preach against those scandalous sinnes contained in the Catalogue and more too and undertake to adde many more to the Catalogue then are expressed and the Honourable House of Commons hath sent an Order to the Assembly of Divines to that purpose and when a supplement is made in obedience thereto there will be yet more found out not mentioned before so that there will be still new matter for addition unlesse there be a reserve 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of remaining particulars to be added when they are discovered and some cautionary Order made that the Minister may not be put upon this hard Dilemma either to administer to any against his judgement and conscience or to suspend his owne act of administration with hazard to himselfe either for his person or estate which will be a greater inconvenience then any worthy Communicant can suffer if he be upon the Ministers mistake unworthily denied his right to Gods Ordinance for one turne onely for before the next celebration of the Sacrament that which was doubtfull before may be fully cleared and of this difference there be two Reasons 1. If the party came worthily prepared and were refused he may have his part in the benefit of the Sacrament as if he had actually received for in such a case God accepteth the will for the deed
Malone in this manner The Booke indeed is presented to the world farre later then my expectation which hath beene ready as it now comes forth these many yeares But the Presse was still employed and occupied with other things by them that had command He that herein imputes sloth or negligence to me knows me not For if I should give but an Indiculus of my studies Et vacet annales nostrorum audire laborum I might make the Jesuite and a thousand more ashamed of their idlenesse Farre be it from me to brag and beast who have ever abhorred all shadow of vain-glory remembring Solomons words Let another man praise thee and not thine owne mouth Prov. 27. And therefore leaving it to the disposer and prosperer of all mine endevours I content and feast my selfe with the suffrage of my conscience as desirous for mine owne part to have something more then the world knows Though I might appeale if need were to the grand Reader of Europe as best acquainted from the very first with me and my studies But what the world knows give me leave to speake that it may appeare that this worke could never fall into fuller hands or to a man more imployed who could allot no more time to it then what must be gained succisivis horis Pro Archia Never could Tully speake more truly of his abstracted life and importunate lucubrations I expounded the whole Bible through in the Colledge in dayly Lectures and in the chiefest bookes ordinarily a verse a day we need not Origens 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 this work we held almost fifteene yeares A few yeares before this was ended I beganne likewise the second Exposition of the whole Bible in the Church and within tenne yeares have ended all the New Testament excepting one booke and a piece all the Prophets all Solomon and Iob so that my Answer to the Iesuite did in part concurre with both these labours What preaching what expounding this is my constant practise neither sicknesse nor any thing else withdrawing me thrice every Sabbath for the farre greater part of the yeare once every Holy-day often twice besides many other extraordinary sudden occasions Adde to these my weekely Lectures as Professor in the Controversies and my Answers to all Bellarmine in word and writing Where in above eight yeares I finished his Tome of the seven Sacraments for there we beganne his last Tome in sixe yeares and now sundry years in the Tome or Tomes remaining What breathing time had I in all these imployments or how could this worke be committed to fuller hands And though there be but a few who are so eminent in parts and in performances so laborious yet the most of those Ministers who are to beare a part in the Discipline of the Church either are or if the Refomation proceed will be so well qualified that they may give due attendance upon preaching and yet have competent time for other duties whereto as men as Christians or as Ministers whether in the Church or Consistory they are engaged And Mr. Pr. knowes by experience in his owne profession that many are able being habituated in Book-learning and Law-cases and pleading of Causes upon a little warning to speake more and better to the purpose then many others by long preparation and he himselfe we see hath time enough not onely to plead his Clients causes but to write so many books as were they bound up together would make divers very competent Volumes and while a good Minister and I hope we shall have more store of such then in former times is exercised in Church Government he is not quite out of office for preaching and instructing for he may have just occasion and faire opportunitie ministerially to admonish those that are convened either as parties to be censured or as witnesses to be examined in the Ecclesiasticall Consistorie SECT XVII The Objection of in efficacie for holinesse of life in such as live under the Presbytery answered THe second particular he produceth in Mr. Prinnes name against the Presbytery is * M. Salim in his opening of 〈◊〉 the Vindication p. 23. 24. and in the Vindication it self p. 57. the want of efficacie in it where it is established which he exemplifieth by instances in severall reformed Churches elsewhere and comparing England with them he saith That the practicall power of godlinesse is generally more eminently visible in the lives of the generalitie of the people more strict pious lesse scandalous and licentious in our English Congregations where there hath beene powerfull preaching without the practise of excommunication or suspension from the Sacrament then in the reformed Churches of France Germany Denmarke or Scotland for which I appeale saith he to all Travellours and Independent Ministers who have lived in the Netherlands who will and must acknowledge that in the sanctification of the Lords Day strictnesse of life and exemplarinesse of conversation our English Ministers and Protestants excell all others These be Mr. Pr. his words upon which Mr. Saltm maketh this inference viz. That the Vindication though it pretend in the generall face of it to be for the Presbyterie yet it is cleare that in aspersing the Government in all those reformed Kingdomes where the practise and power of it hath beene it secretly wounds the glory of it in the opinion of the world and though it pull not downe the Government quite yet it Weakens the posts or judgements of men on which it stands Answer 1. By what I have read of Mr. Prinnes writings what I have observed of him my selfe and received by report of such as are best acquainted with his mind and wayes I conceive him to be so true an Israelite without all guile that he will not pretend one thing when he intends another 2. For the Assertion it selfe there be two things to be considered 1. Whether it be true or no. 2. If so what may be the reason of it that alleadged or some other For the first Whether the Assertion be true or no The resolution of this Question must be made with difference of times for Countreys as well as particular persons have their variations in Religion not onely for profession of the faith but for practise of holinesse as in King James his dayes upon the Declaration and libertie granted upon the Sunday that is the name in the Declaration and it is the fittest name for a licence of profanenesse for sports and pastimes renewed by the King that now is the people of England were more loose and licentious on that day then now they are upon the burning of that Book and an Ordinance of Parliament set out for the more holy observation of the Sabbath The Application of this distinction may resolve the observation severall waies and we may say that sometimes one people or Nation sometimes another and the same people at one time more then at another may be more conformable in practise to the principles of piety And as there is a
distinction of times so of places some are more some lesse civilized as in Scotland * Abbot Geogr. P. 207 208. the Low-land is the most civill part of the Realme where Religion is most orderly established but the other part called the Highland which lyeth further to the North or bendeth towards Ireland is more rude and savage and so further from conformitie in Religion And there may be great difference also in respect of Preachers and Sermons wherewith some Countries are much better furnished then others and thence are not onely more Civill but more Religious also for civilitie and religion mutually conduce to the helpe of each other Civilitie makes men more capable of Religion Religion makes them more conformable to Civilitie this is observable in many parts of Wales and Cornwall which are but poorely stored with well gifted Preachers in comparison of London and many other places of this Kingdome And whereas it is said that in the reformed Churches as in the Churches of France Germany Denmarke and Scotland the people be lesse strict and pious more licentious and scandalous then in England where there hath beene powerfull preaching without the practise of excommunication and suspension from the Sacrament It is to be considered that in England both suspension from the Sacrament and excommuication have beene in use before the deposition of the Prelates and Service Book and by this Argument we might plead for the retaining of the English Prelacie and Liturgie and against the establishment of the Presbytery and Directory both which Mr. Priune hath in a better opinion and reputation then the Government and Book which were their predecessors in the English Church and if we suppose there is powerfull preaching with the one Government and not with the other we should ascribe the prelation to that which is principall and present viz. the preaching of the word and not cast a reproach upon that which is accessory though in a secondary degree necessary also because it is absent since the want thereof can contribute nothing to spirituall proficiencie but the presence and exercise of it very much 2. Question If the precedent assertion be true what may be the reason Answer If there be lesse strictnesse in those forementioned Churches then in the Church of England it cannot be charged upon the Presbyterian Discipline or Government for there is nothing in that which tends to licentiousnesse and scandall but to the quite contrary and I can speake it by experience that the formall admonition of inordinate walkers by the Minister and Churchwardens without any further proceeding in Discipline hath kept many in more awe and better order then without it they would have beene so that where the Word is powerfully preached and that Discipline duely and piously and impartially administred it is not onely very effectuall for preservation of the profession of Christianitie from Heresie and Schisme as * See the Preface to the new Annotations of the Bible p. 1. of the Church of Scotland is observed but for promotion of the practise of piety and prevention of loosenesse of life as of the Church of Geneva is noted and acknowledged by Bodine a Papist in the sixth Chapter of his Booke de meth historiae And if any where the people living under this Government be more generally profane then where it is not it may or rather must be referred 1. To some other reason as in Germany the sinne of Drunkennesse prevaileth so much that this reproachfull Proverbe passeth upon them * Heylinâ— Gâ—â—ogr p. 256. Germanorum vivere est bibere The Germans life is drownd in his liquor whence it is that they abound in Brewers * Ibid. p. 260. having 777. of that Trade 40. Bakers one Lawyer one Physician in the Towne of Hamburge and where they are habitually addicted to that vice they are little disposed to the power of godlinesse 2. In some Countries where the Presbyterie is established the Ministers are in meane estimation because they are reduced to a despicable povertie their revenues being kept from them by the Nobility and Gentry and they tucked up to * The large Declaration of the late Tumults in Scotland p. 7 8. some poor pittance either by way of stipendiary benevolence or some other meane allowance unworthy of the Ministers of the Gospel and which exposeth them to all manner of contempt and a base dependance upon their patrons Now where the Ministers of the Gospel are despised the Gospel is lesse honoured and the people lesse affected with any doctrine or dutie of piety and conscience 3. Some reformed Churches though they admit of the Presbyterian Government are the lesse reformed because they are in their habitation and conversation mingled with profane Papists as in France 4. And lastly the most reformed Churches in forraine parts are and long have beene much unreformed in the Doctrine of the Sabbath which few foraine Divines teach so soundly few foraine Christians observe so conscientiously as doe the Divines and Christians of the Church of England and it is experimentally proved that according to mens care or neglect of the sanctification of the Sabbath they are more or lesse pious or profane strict or licentious in their conversations It is not then the absence of Discipline where the Word is powerfully preached and the Sabbath religiously observed that furthereth any thing to holinesse of life but the want of these which should be joyned with Discipline which makes it lesse effectuall for popular reformation but where all are joyned together there not onely the ordinary behaviour of men is more orderly but divers are in their lives so strict so exact that as a * The Essayes of the Lord â—erulam Essay â—2 〈…〉 witty Authour makes the resemblance they are like a verse wherein every syllable is measured SECT XVIII Shewing what might be retorted upon the Antipresbyteriall party but concluding for Vnitie and Peace with allegation of Mr. Burroughs his propositions of reconciliation and accord and some other particulars tending thereto HItherto I have for the most part held out the Buckler of Apologie against the exceptions taken at the present setting up of the Presbyteriall Government I could now take up the Sword of Assault and put Mr. Saltm to be Defendent while I bring in Objections against the haste which some of his party make in setting up their Congregationall way not onely without Authoritie but against it For the Presbyterian Discipline hath beene by Authoritie of Parliament in â—â—bate first in the Assembly afterward in both Houses of Parliament and so farre as it is agreeable to the word of God and the example of the best reformed Churches covenanted to be established in this Kingdome and in the Kingdome of Ireland contrary to the Congregationall and Independent platform and many parts of it have beene set forth already by Ordinance or Order of the Honourable Houses yet the Presbyterians take not upon them to be active in the choice of
have seven no more then is contained in the sixe for my part if this be candidly and cordially in point of Church Government delivered and so received and professed by those of his side I hope such as are adversaries unto both parties shall not long rejoyce and prosper by the advantage they make of our mutuall divisions SECT XIX Further grounds and hopes of union in the Churches of the Sister Kingdomes of England and Scotland with Answers to the Objections that are made against it I Have the more hope of the Vnion fore-mentioned because if they who in respect of the paucitie and noveltie of their party compared with the Churches of the Presbyterian Government throughout the Christian World for number and Seniority are not so considerable as some conceive will yeeld as farre as they ought for a pacificall accord their Presbyterian Brethren will as farre as they may with securitie to the truth and reservation of the interest and honour of the Reformed Churches come downe to them in such a Christian accommodation as is requisite for a conclusion of peace My ground for this is that which I have observed in the disposition of the Reverend Religious and prudent Commissioners of the Church of Scotland for though that Church be supposed and censured by some as the most rigid in exacting assent to and observation of her rules and customes as if all must yeeld to her as the Standard of Discipline and she would yeeld to none they have alwaies in all their debates and behaviour even towards the dissenting Brethren carried themselves with a most Christian and Evangelicall sinceritie and sweetnesse of spirit and some of them have well witnessed to the world their hopes desires and endevours for peace especially with all the religious and faithfull Preachers and Professours of the Church of England For instance one of them in his * Mr. Gillespie his Brotherly examination of some passages of M. C. his printed Sermon p. 33. This is repeated in his latter Booke called Nihi◠Respondes p. 19. Brotherly examination of some passages in Mr. Colem his Sermon to this Question Where shall the Independents and we meet returneth this answer In holding a Church Governmeut jure divino that is that the Pastors and Elders ought to suspend or excommunicate according to the degree of the offence of scandalous sinners and who can tell but the purging of the Church frō scandals and the keeping of the Ordinances pure when it shall be actually seen to be the great worke endevoured on both sides may wake union betwixt us and the Independents more easie then many imagine and in his * Ibid. latter booke saith he we will never despaire of an union with such as are sound in the faith holy in life and willing to a Church refining and sinne-censuring government in the hands of Church Officers And in answer to Mr. C. his relation of news of agreement betwixt Presbyterians and Independents Lutherans and Calvinists Papists and Protestants Turks and Christians in holding that there is a Religion wherein men ought to walke he saith No Sir they must be united upon the like termes that is you must first have Turks to be Christians Papists to be Protestants and then you must have them as willing to purge the Church of scandals and to keep the Ordinances pure c. And after a few lines before repeated quitting Mr. C. his geering report of newes he replieth but soberly and seriously Now will I tell you my news the Presbyterians and Independents are both equally interested against the Erastian Principles and which is more for degree of assurance and for more generall concurrence in truth and peace not this Commissioner nor these Commissioners onely but the whole Church of Scotland is well prepared and disposed to a Christian and Brotherly compliance with the Church of England in the way of reformation for Mr. Coleman having objected that the Commissioners of Scotland came not to the Assembly at Westminster as Divines by dispute and disquisition to find out the truth but at Iudges to censure all different opinions as errours for so saith he come for nine Divines to Dort Alexander to the Councel of Nice Cyrill to Ephesus the Learned Commissioner answereth him thus Is it not enough to slander us though he doe not for our sakes slander those worthy Divines that came to the Synod of Dort Alexander also and Cyrill prime witnesses for the truth in their dayes would no lesse content him then to approve the Objections of the Arminians against the Synod at Dort which I had mentioned p. 33 but he gets not away so the strongest instance which I had given he hath are once touched it was concerning Paul and Barnabas who wore engaged not in the behalfe of one Nation but of all the Churches of the Gentiles against the imposition of the Mosaicall rites and had so declared themselves at Antioch before they came to Ierusalem Finally whereas he doubts though not of our willingnesse to learne more yet of our permission to receive more That very paper first given in by we which I had cited and unto which he makes this reply did speake not onely of our learning but of the Church of Scotlands receiving And which is more there is an actuall experiment of it the last generall Assembly having ordered the laying aside of some particular customes in that Church and that for the neerer uniformitie with this Church of England as was expressed in their owne Letter to the Reverend Assembly of Divines And though they thought it necessary to shew their different opinion in one point of the Directory yet they entred their dissent without any disaffection to us of the Assembly I will give you their sense in their owne words which are these Onely we have thought it necessary to declare and make knowne that the Clause in the Directory for the administration of the Lords Supper which appointeth the Table to be so placed that the Communicants may orderly sit about it or at it is not to be interpreted as if in the judgement of our Kirks it were indifferent for any of the Communicants not to come to and receive at the Table or as if we did approve the distributing of the elements by the Minister to each Communicant and not by the Communicants among themselves in which particulars we still conceive and beleeve the order and practise of our owne Kirke to be most agreeable to the word of God the example of our Lord Iesus Christ and the nature of that heavenly Feast and Table neverthelesse in other particulars we have resolved and doe agree to doe as you have desired us in your Letter This was part of the Letter from the Generall Assembly at Edenborough signed thus Subscribed in the name of the Generall Assembly by Mr. Robert Douglas Moderatour Feb. 13. 1644. Whereby we see they doe not for that difference of opinion take any offence or shew any dislike
of their Brethren at Westminster nor any distast at the rest of the Directory for any particular contained in it But yet for all this some are so unwilling to beleeve there will be peace especially in the point of Government of the Church that they faine the Parliament and the Assembly of Divines at irreconciliable difference about it the Divines requiring the stampe of Divine right to be set upon it and the Parliament resolute to yeeld no more authoritie for it then a meere Civill Sanction can give unto it Answer To this we answer 1. That the Divines doe not affirme the whole frame and fabrick of Church Government to be of Divine right for it is made up of particulars of different kinds viz. Substantials of Government which have their warrant either by ordinance in his word or direct inference from it as that there must be Church Officers Pastors and their Ordination Elders and Deacons and Church Offices both of preaching administration of the Sacraments and Government Church censures admonition suspension excommunication and accidentall or circumstantiall additions which are of prudentiall direction and consideration as for Pastors when and in what manner they shall be ordained whether a Preacher should treat on a Text or on some Theologicall Theme or Common place when and how oft and to how many at once the Sacraments should be administred how many assisting Elders should be in a Parish and whether they should be chosen and admitted to their office with imposition of hands and continue in it for a yeare or two or for terme of life in what forme of words admonition suspension or excommunication should be comprised and pronounced with divers others of like sort This distinction the Divines of the Assembly make of the contents of the Directory for the publique worship of God throughout the three Kingdomes and the same hath the like use in the Church Government desired their words in the last lease of the Preface of the Directory are these We have after earnest and frequent calling upon the Name of God and after much consultation not with flesh and blood but with the holy Word resolved to lay aside the former Leiturgy with the many rites and Ceremonies formerly used in the worship of God and have agreed upon this following Directory for all the parts of publique worship at ordinary and extraordinary times Wherein our care hath beene to hold forth such things as are of Divine Institution in every Ordinance and other things we have endevoured to set forth according to the rules of Christian prudence agreeable to the generall Rules of the Word of God 2. Though the Honourable Houses have not yet asserted the constitution of the Church Government as ordained in or derived from or as agreeable to the Word of God because as some render the reason it is not the manner of Law-makers to mingle matter of Religion with their Civill Sanction yet when they present it compleat in all the parts thereof it may be they will at least give intimation of the conformity of it to the Canonicall Scriptures according to the distinction of the parts before proposed and it is not so strange and unusuall as some pretend for Legislative authoritie to borrow a religious reputation for what they inact or ordaine from the Word of God for we find instance thereof in the Statutes (a) Concerning the Sacrament of the Lords Supper the words of Institution are set downe and 15. places of Scripture quoted in the Marginewith letters of reference in the Text. Poult Abridgm p. 826. of the first yeare of Edward the sixth c. 1. (b) The Statute of the first of Q. Mery c. 2. repealed as causing a decay of the honour of God and the discomsort of the professours of the truth of Christs Religion Ibid. p. 1005. In the first of Eliza. c. 2. (c) For as much as profane swearing and cursing is forbidden by the Word of God Ibid. p. 1403. In the 21. of K. James c. 20. (d) Nothing more acceptable to God then the true and sincere service and worship of him according to his holy will and that the holy keeping of the Lords Day is 2 principal part of the true service of God Ibid. p. 1427. In the first of K. Charles c. 1. (e) For as much as the Lords Day commonly called Sunday is much broken and profaned by Carryers c. to the great dishonour of God reproch of Religion c. Ibid. p. 1434. In the third of K. James c. 1. Lastly the present Parliament hath done the like already for some parts of the Reformation authorised as for the Ordination of Ministers which is a chiefe part of the Presbyteriall authoritie of which they say * So in the Ordinance for Ordination ordered to be printed October 2. 1644. p. 2. Whereas it is manifest by the Word of God that no man ought to take upon him the office of a Minister untill he be lawfully called and ordained thereunto and that the worke of Ordination that is to say an outward solemne setting apart of persons for the office of the Ministery in the Church by Preaching Presbyters is an Ordinance of Christ and is to be performed with all due care wisdome gravitie and solemnity It is ordained by the Lords and Commons c. And in their Ordinance for the Directory Jan. 3. 1644. They beginne with these words The Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament taking into serious consideration the manifold incenveniences that have risen by the Booke of Common Prayer in this Kingdome and resolving according to their Covenant to reforme Religion according to the Word of God and the example of the best Reformed Churches have consulted with the Reverend Pious and Learned Divines called together to that purpose and doe judge it necessary that the said Booke of Common Prayer be abolished and the Directorie for the publique worship of God herein after mentioned be established and observed in all the Churches within this Kingdome c. If it be said that Ordination and Worship are usually distinguished from Power and Government and that both of them have more expresse warrant from the word of God then can be found in Scripture for the Presbyteriall Government I Auswer 1. That the question is not now whether there be difference betwixt them but whether there be such difference betwixt a Civill Sanction and Divine ratification that the one may not well be brought in with the other 2. That though there were much use made of the distinction of the key of order and the key of power or of Iurisdiction in the time of the Prelates so that they confined that wholly to the Clergie principally to themselves while they sold or trusted out the key of power or of jurisdiction to Vicars generall Chancellours Archdeacons Commissaries and rurall Deanes yet is Ordination one of the principall parts of the Presbyteriall power and if it be as it is commonly taken matter