that they are so ordinary as to be any where but in a true visible Constituted Church only which hath or ought to have the Evangelist also in ordinary As to the Question I Answer there hath not been this 1240 year a visible Church in which rightly have been the true Church ministry and right Church constitution though there hath been an invisible Church through all the time in the world 1 Cor. 12.28 God hath placâ—d in the Church these but not out of the Church Dr. The warrant we have is a lawful call to the ministry the Apostle James doth forbid a masterly elusorious way of teaching as is clear by the whole sequel of his discourse Resp Sir The smoke of the Temple offends your eyes yet ye cannot see clearly your Church is no true Church nor that it is as you found the Antichrist of Rome leave it and is no better for its constitution then Rome's Church is Now such as your Church is your call is and such your ministry It is true Indeed James forbids a masterly Teaching and such is yours Sir for you Teach in the Church so by your single Ministry as you have no example in the Scripture for it As for James his Church Church ministry there spoke of was the same with yours not a company of Saints but adulteresses and adulterers Jam. 4.4 persecutors and blasphemers James 2.6 7. their tongues set one fire of hel ful of cursing and bitterness Chap. 3.6 9 and no where called a Church in his Epistle Sir it seemes the more I rub your eyes the worse the smoke troubles youâ— John's first Epistle was written to another manner of Society Dr. It is true Paul did all because every officer of a superiour degree hath authority to do the actions of the inferiour but where are we forbidden to teach must not a minister be chosen 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 1 Tim. 3.12 Resp 1. He did them all until the Church was constituted where he was but when he had others to Teach and labour with him he took not their worke out of their hands 1 Cor. 1.14 thus Peter Acts 10.48 2. That ye are forbidden to Teach without a lawfull call that is Anticristian 〈…〉 yeâ— you are forbid to Teach as you doe 2 Cor. 10.13 we that is Paul Silvanus Timothy 2 Cor. 1.19 in the name of the full Church ministry Paul saith we wil not boast of things without our measure 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Mr Doctor pray observe in one Church every minister hath a measure allowed him to Teach by which is laid out as by a rule of which in ministry every man is not to take what he wil as you do but God hath parted to each ministry his doctrine in the Church yea to the Apostles when they taught as ordinary Teachers and to those that taught with them to which Paul alludes 1 Thes 2.4 as we were allowed of God there is a Gospel allowance to Teachers what they should Teach and yet Bishops chosen by teaching that doctrine he was to be called to teach in the Church and not by others P. 10. Dr. Here is no mention of an Evangelist at all how then is it proved hence that he is a perpetual and assistant minister in the Church and if as he saith The Apostle doth speak here of publique Church Ministry and doth not name an Evangelist in it then the argument is strong against him that an Evangelist is not an ordinary publique minister Resp Mr Doctor seems profoundly to argue in this place against nothing pray consider it 1. That in this Scripture Rom. 12.6 7 8. is not mentioned the name of Prophet Pastor or Teacher which he cannot deny but yet are implyed here but because the Evangelist is not set down therfore he hath no place at all though the other may have having the Doctor 's leave 2. The Prophet in prophesy which was before him is implyed and the Pastour in his work of exhortation that comes after him and the Doctor in teaching is implyed And there is Ministry for one in the Evangelist's place but he must not be there unlesse he be set down an Evangelist though all teaching and his emmenter may be called Ministry Sir here cannot be understood any other Church-Teacher whatever nor your Church-Deacon or supposed Elder these follow in vers 8. in giving and ruling Sir I pray take heed of your taking too much liberty in making the Scripture speak against themselves if you forbear that I am sure they will not speak for you at all here Dr. This is a silly and irregular thought for how can a Church be constituted before God give gifts Shall we make Evangelists before God makes them All Pastors and Teachers are in a generall sent Evangelists that is publishers of the Gospel but not in a peculiar sent as he would have the Evangelist to be Resp Reader the cause of the Doctor breaking out into this silly cry is for that in my Book pag. 10. is written whereas the Apostle saith there be divers gifts from this Rom. 12. I think if ever a Church were rightly constituted greater gifts would be bestowed on men then since the Apostles 1. The Doctor understands not that God hath distinguished the Church gift from the Heavenly gift the Church gifts are called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which are given to men by the Church 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 according to the divine gift God had given them to minister the Church gift by which is the severall cals of the Church ministry Evangelists Pastors Teachers and thus indeed the Church is not to make before God hath made them but after 2. For what cause the Doctor troubles himself about Pastors and Teachers being Evangelists having before written of it and so few unworthy observations of a Doctor and up with it so often shews he wanted matter to object and that the man is mightily troubled about the Evangelist in his mind Dr. This Paragraph is to me a piece of nonsense for I knew not what he would say in it or how it is coherent with this former discourse Resp If the Doctor be silly as he makes himself I wonder he would take upon him in so unworthy a way to send down his notions in so secret a way to disgrace me and my writings privately amongst the ignorant multitude it had been more honour having been provoked to the presse or print to have published some worthy work in defence of their Presbyterian Government set out in the Propositions which I printed against or against that form of Church Government I added to it or prove their Government by the practice of the Primitive Church and disprove that in my Treatise of the resurrection of faln Churches and not in seeking to correct truth for errour in a Book make ten errours when he proves none but the not understood nonsense he talks of is in this The Church ministry is set out oft times by one word in
ruling Elder is set up in the church and none before after this the Deaconesse and things concerning the Kingdom that is the church administrations were given them after Christs resurrection Act 1.3 by especiall direction P. 12. It was grosse when the word Church was only taken for your places of assembly c. Dr. The denomination of your place of meeting by the name Church when the continens is used pro contento is not incongruous but consonant to Scripture 1 Cor 1.18 with 20 22. Resp Sir it is incongruous for a man to quarrel with one agrees with him and to take the word Church in Scripture only for a meeting place is worse but I think I proved to your hand more clearly or Mr Mead for me that which you here assert in the same Book p. 56. from 1 Cor 11.22 But you were weary spending any more time and ink in the reading and correcting of this smoky piece and so left off before you came to the end and saw it not or rather you dare not deal with that as with this it comes closer to your coyned government Dr. Mixt Assemblyes do not make voyd the truth of the Church if Gods Ordinances be observed therein and the true Doctrine taught and received Resp 1. This is but your saying they do not it is little worth with those argue against you especially when it is against the truth 2. Your Hypothesis is drawn aâ— impossible for God's Ordinances cannot be observed in mixed societies 3. Shew me one church constituted of the Gospel constitution of a Nationall mixt society and I will shew you all others be the contrary constituted and more then 100 years after that were approved by approved Authors Pag. 12. There are to be three distinct Teachers in every Church Dr. It is not clear that these three are to be distinct and perpetuall in ordinary all this is said at random and without ground Resp 1. Sir it is as clear as Scripture can make them yet as clear as they are I cannot make your eies see them the smoke being on them take away the smoke and they will appear to be three distinct ordinary Teachers 2. That that was ordinary in the Apostles time that is to be ordinary in every true constituted Church for ever and it hath a Gospel ground but your single ministry hath no foot for a foundation from Christ but Antichrist you acknowledge Pastors and Teachers why have ye not them set up in your societies sure it will not suit with the constitution of your Church or with your profit or something Pag. 13. Galat 2.9 James is Evangelist Peter Pastor John Teacher Dr. These things are meer fancies without any proof from Scripture and altogether inconsistent with the Apostolicall charge Resp 1. Sir what means 2 Pet 5.1 where Peter calleth himself 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 If not that in some constituted Church he was joyned with others in the ministry 2. Sir in my Treatise of The Resurrection of faln Churches I have proved by the testimony of Tertullian Ireneus and others that the Apostles were the Elders of the Church of Jerusalem men whose testimony is to be received before all the testimony of the Presbyters living 3. Is it more inconsistent with these to do thus among the Jews in the Mother Church then with Paul to do these among the Gentiles 2 Tim 1.11 and with Barnabas Peter and Iohn with Philip at Samaria Act 8.14.25 and why not at Ierusalem â—r Doctor Pag 13. That the Gospel was preached in the Synagogue as to mixt multitudes Dr. These proofs are such silly inferences that it is tedious to reflect upon them and examine them they are even ridiculous Resp Sir you are not the first have made a mock at the truth of the Gospel their disputing and reasoning differâ—d from Church teaching as a work of the Catechist which when men were sufficiently wrote on were separated from the multitude to the believers society as in the Acts 18.4 7 11. and is a thing deserves more study then you are willing to spare about it because it is opposite to your present designs Pag 14. the second part of ministry c. L. 1. Dr. This doth contradict that which he hath been saying all this while his argument formerly taken from the order of words for if the Doctor be the second part of the ministry next the Evangelist then the Pastor is not the second to the Evangelist but these are groundlesse whimseys Resp In the end of the page before I shewed from the words of Christ Math 23.11 He that is greatest amongst you shall be your servant Where I observed Christ shews the Evangelists work was to make way for the Church constitution and so ministred to the Teacher and Pastor And when the Church came to be constituted and that there were men fitted for the Evangelists ministry then some other was constituted to do that work without the Church and the Evangelist did minister the perfecting ministry to the strong men in Christ in which work the Pastor is next him though in the other his ministry preceded the Doctor And this is the groundlesse whimsey which was the practice of the Apostles in their ordinary ministry Paul taught at Corinth before he baptized and then baptized and when the church is constituted he leaves baptizing and that ministry and Evangelizeth 1 Cor 1.14 17. Act 18.4 7 8. Pag 14. Of Iames and Iohns Epistle Dr. The difference of Iames and Iohns stiles the one reproving of vices and faults sharply and the other perswading powerfully to the improvement of grace is no argument of any such thing as he would have inferred that he was a Doctor to the Jewish church in particular But indeed these things are so weak and silly that they are not worth the answering Resp See how this silly man makes the difference of the doctrine to be only in the stile as if the condition of the persons required it not as if any man in that society and to that people Iohn taught might have taught that Doctrine and applyed there that Iames taught â—t è contrario Mark 3.17 was not Iohn as well as Iames the son of thunder Think you among the Apostles was no other conduct of spirit then in your confused Babylonish teaching See if any Epistle writ to any church be like this of Iames Shew any ground from Iames Epistle that it was written to a constituted church I think I shall shew you shortly 20. why it was not P. 14. The whole Doctrine is for Babes Dr. The Apostle writes to young Men and to Fathers as well as to Babes how then is the whole Doctrine for Babes alone but this is like all the rest Resp 1. The Apostle as Apostle had an extraordinary call to write to Fathers and young Men of the Church as wel as Babes 2. That he writes to these is contained all in chap 2. vers 14. Now what and how much of Doctrine
begin with an O yes still for fear least no man would not heed what ye say and did they heed you rightly they would take heed how they read your writings I hope you are more just in your cases of conscience 1. You acknowledge part of the truth but not all here are three sorts expressed and differenced clearly in their feeding why do not you ingeniously confesse it or deny it by argument but you confesse only what will serve your owne turne this will not availe in the day of Christ 2. You have two sorts of feeding the one with meat the other with rule yet both sorts are fed alike but Sir where is the third what is it or is it not in the Text or are you not willing to have it there or known it is there and then the Lambs are fed with Doctrine Sheep with rule 3. These are recommended to one man but was he not an extraordinary officer and were they not several administrations given unto him 4. If I prove the office from the Scripture by institution practise and continuance how can you say it is a new coyned office you have not one of these to shew for your single Nationall Church ministry in all the book of Christ yea in the Name of Christ either prove your call and ministry or lay it downe or this will be a witnesse against you at the last day Dr. If this be your clearest proof it is clear you have no proof at all but make your fancy and wrong application of the Text all your proof this proves no more then that Peter was fully re-installed unto his office and that notwithstanding his threefold deniall he was againe thrice admitted to his charge â—nd to all the objects and parts of it Resp Sir to all understanding men you clear up the truths of my Treatise and bring a darknesse on your selfe and judgement what twelve moneths time to find out Peters re-instalement and to put in a few empty lines and to put it in againe and againe you should have put it in a little further off if that were it you aimed at but Sir pray what do you make of Peter a Pope indeed or I pray Sir tell me what expresse Scripture have you to prove that Peter lost or was put out of his Apostleship or if you will his Bishops See that he was now re-installed and that nothing else but his three-fold re-instalment must be understood in this place I believe you had this from some Popish Priest or Postill pray Sir at the call of any of the Apostles had they a three-fold instalement as you here set downe if not why should they have it at their re-instalment had Christ prayed that Peters faith should not faile before he fell and shall his Episcopacy Sir I know none that lost his Episcopacy but Judas of the Apostles you are in a Popish dream the Lord awaken you are there several feedings of which one sort are fed with rule only good Mr Doctor P. 22. 2 Cor. 6.1 Dr. The Apostles meaning is that men worke together with God that is every minister is in his own work subordinate unto God it is then impertinent to make this inference it is not the work of one man alone many men may work in one and the same worke and one may have diverse workes as the objects differ one Shepheard maâ—â— at one time feed both Lambs and Sheep Resp Sir Hereunto I have not had 14 houres time to copy out your breviary and returne you this Answer in a little longer time I should deal better with you but any rational man that wil look on the Text and see your falaciousnesse may tract you and know you you say the meaning is that men worke togâ—ther 1. What men 1 Cor. 1.19 are they not we Paul Silvanus and Timothy or what were they 2. Where did they work was it not in the Church of Corinth 3. How did they work was it not together in ministry Now to this you seem to agree but then after in your after exposition because you feared the former like fire that might burn your double doctrine you fly to an exposition quite contrary to truth that serves your selfe every eie may see where you were going and as for part of the inferences they are like your doctrine corrupt and none of mine it is your chief art and skill to man inferences you make none good of your owne nor deduce those honestly mine P. 23. He that plants and he that waters are one 1 Cor. 3.8 Dr. By one in this place is not meant so much the ministry as the efficacy and vertue thereof that is they are as to the bringing forth of the effect as one thing that is of no efficacy but only outward instruments servants of God Resp 1. I cannot but admire how men do befoole themselves when they fight against the truth saith he they are as to the bringing forth of the effect as one and the same thing that is of nâ— efficacy it is learnedly cleared 2. Consider this is first spoke of Paul and Apollo and here relates to them and their ministry in the pronoun quis and after more clearly in the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is unum â—â—ministerium againe every one hath his own reward according to his owne labour ver 9. we are labourers together now judge if here be not intended onely Ministers and Ministry and the Doctors glosse very spurious and corrupt worse then whimsicall P. 23. 2 Cor. 1.15 That in no constituted Church we read of no more but three in fellowship of Ministry ordinarily Dr. These are weake conjectures and can make no such in probability as are inferred on them Resp I beseech the Reader see I propose texts of Scripture and affirme that in no constituted Church were more or should be lesse the Doctor cannot disprove it by the word that confirms it abundantly and therefore he shakes it off with a conjecture only pray see of what authority the Scripture is with these kind of men â—or â—y â— Church patterne in the Gospel P. 23. We do that never Apostle did doe Dr. Was not Peter bound by the charge that was given him to feed both Lambs and Sheep as well the young as the old by giving them their meat and ruling them Resp 1. As Apostle he had this charge but this warrants not us in our practise being ordâ—â—â—â—â— ministers by a ordinary call 2. The Apostles had â—uthority for all that from them authority may be communicated to others in an ordinary way 3. Ordinarily and so I intend no Apostle did the whole ministery what meanes the mentioning of their co-workers so oft else and that of Acts 10.48 Dr. I say that every one that is called to the Ministry is bound to do all that God doth inable him to doe both to Teach and to Rule as the occasions do require his service Resp 1. You have Mr Doctor a dixi for it if
Dr DVRIE'S DEFENCE OF THE PRESENT MINISTRY Being compared with the Gospel and Gospel Ministry turnes into smoke and vanisheth As is made to appear in the ensuing Treatise By a Witnesse of the Gospel JOHN BRAINE Gal. 2.14 When I saw they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the Gospel I said to Peter before them all c. Printed in the Year 1649. To the Honourable the Committee of the County of South-Hampton The Learned Assembly at Westminster and the Godly and wel-affected of the County aforesaid TO you first of the Assembly I commend these things because you are they to whom the Supreme Authority of the Nation hath committed the care and judgement of these and the like differences that you may judge between us and make publike if you please your dissent from what is not of Gospel proof on either part To you the Honourable Committee aforesaid I humbly present these also that you hereby may see that by this or by the other cries of men of diffeâ—â— judgements Is â—â—â—â—â—e 〈◊〉 â—o be spoyled or wounded by you spoyled of that by your word and hand-writing you have for my Ministeriall labours promised me it being the life of me and my great family or wounded in my name who have lived though in weaknesse according to the testimonies of Christ and give me leave to mind you that of God That the labourer is worthy of his hire To you my faithfull and beloved friends of the Soake the City of Winton and County aforesaid I leave this as my loving remembrance to you advising you to beware of the secret practises of men against the Gospel as of works of darknesse and deep dishonesty in them that do them from whome and from which things keep your selves And 〈◊〉 Mr Doctor Durie I challenge a breach of promise who near twelve moneths since by letter promised me your notes on my booke and you contrary thereunto send my book and your bitter notes on it to my adversaries what hand you had in the private communicating of them I know not but leave to God Sir in obedience to Christ onely I have forborne to returne you railing for railing nor would I have you for this thinke I have forgot any good I have received from you but acknowledge the least thaâ—â—ulnâ—sse Sir I have not wronged you a word as I know in trâ—â—scribing your noâ—es they shall be compared with the Originall at your command bâ— any indifferent man Sir all that I have done herein is for the Gospel my dearesâ— friend for whome I desire to forsake all and althings and yet rest Gladly yours to serve you and al the forementioned according to the Gospel service of God John Braine To the Reader Reader THese Notes of Dr Duries I found written on the margent of a Booke properly mine owne being Intituled The smoke of the Temple cleared by the light of the Scripture lying one Shop-keepers Table where I live which I taking away with me was after sent for to make appearance before two Justices of the County aforesaid who were desired to grant a Warrant to apprehend me Fellon-like therefore but honestly refused it who after on my appearance because I would not surrender the said book chosing rather to obey the Law passively in that point then actively I was and now stand ingaged to make appearance at the next Quarter-Sessions to make Answer before the Bench for thus illegally seizing on my owne proper goods being a book sent Mr Doctor upon his sending to one Mr Ellis for him to call on me to send him one of my Books as the said Mr Ellis told me and not give him one nor was it by me given now that this onely câ—uâ—â— aforesaid must he taken in the businesse I thinke cannot but seem strange to all that read it These Notes made in answer to the Doctor by me were of two dayes making which will plead for their imperfection for thy better understanding the Treatise the letter P. is put for what page of the Book called The smoake of the Temple c. the Doctor drew his observation from and the Scripture added to it shews the ground the Doctor drew his assertions from which I doubt not but will clear many things in Scripture hid formerly to the world and prove profitable to all that read them by beeing compared things with things But to come to the Doctors observations themselves he passeth by the three first pages as having nothing to object and begins with page 4. striving if he had strength enough to remove the Evangelist from his owne into anothers place and so I leave him to his lift and triall of his strength who may as soone by help of a leaver role the round world out of his place as the Evangelist out of his and sooner too so unable is man found to be when he strives against Truth Luke 16.29 compared with Eph. 2.20 P. 4. Doctor WHat is here said of the Apostles is appliable unto Evangelists Resp 1. This is petitio principii or a begging the thing in question Mr Doctor You would have it so 2. The Scriptures were given by Divine inspiration to the Apostles and Prophets but not the ordinary Evangelists 3. Nor are the Evangelists to be proved as the Apostles are to be in any extraordinary way in the Church God in 2 Ephes 20. saith the Apostles and Prophets are of the Foundation but not Evangelists Dr. I say those Prophets who were before Christs time are properly to be understood Eph. 2.20 because they were the foundation upon which the Church was built as appears by Acts 26.22 2 Pet. 1.19 yet I hold that the Prophets which are named Eph. 4.11 are distinct from those Antient ones these are not the foundation of the Christian Church but these were the Apostolicall office 〈◊〉 doth ementer 〈◊〉 comprehend these but not these for these were before the Apostles nor are the Prophets named Eph. 4.11 qua distinct from the Apostles but if at all they are to be â—united the foundation it is onely as in and under the Apostolical office Then besides by the foundation of the Apostles and the Prophets is only meant the doctrine Apostolical and Prophetical whereof Christ is the substance that is the one corner stone and is it not so also in respect of the Evangelists Resp 1. For Answer to this confused masse take my owne words in my Book by Prophets I understand not only those wrot before Christs time but those wrot since also 2. Whereas he saith The Antient ones are not the foundation of the Christian Church It is clear the Prophets before Christ are in the same way a foundation to the now Church as the Prophets that were since 1 Peter 1.12 Not to themselves but to us saith the Apostle speaking to those under the Gospel administrations they did minister these things in a Church administration only they were not in this time 3. He saith The Prophets are not spoken
of qua distinct from the Aopstles Eph. 4.11 How sad a thing is it to see a Doctor so deceived are all the rest spoken of as distinct and doth he dream this is not see then if the Apostle hath in any other Scripture distinguished them if he seeth it not heer 1 Cor. 12.28 God hath placed in the Church first Apostles 2. Prophets see if God hath not distinguished them by a first and second This man would have confounded the Church Ministry mâ—king of two one with the men of his mind it is nothing to make all one 4. He tels us by foundation was not ment the Apostles but their Doctrine I having cited the text Eph. 2.20 this is clear enough expressed that it is the foundation of the Apostles not that the Apostles as the Papists say of Peter are the foundations of the Church there was no foundation for the Doctor to make this learned exception P. 5. Dr. The Church of the Gospel is built on the truths delivered by the old Prophets as is clear by Acts 26.22 Luke 24.27 2 Pet. 1.19 Resp To me it is much to see so grave a man fight with his own shadow for in this he hath not hit me at all I granted this in my Book which might wel have saved him his learned labour Dr. But the Prophets subordinate to the Apostles were no more founders to the Church then the Evangelists Resp For men of reputed learning and esteeme I see it is nothing to say any thing though never so clear against the truth Eph. 2.20 we are built upon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets I provoke you Mr Doctor to shew where it is said that we are built upon the Evangelists Dr. Titus was no where called Evangelist was he therefore none Resp Mr. Doctor How shall I believe he was if the Scripture say not of him he was one I am sure you have no Gospel makes him such that ever he wrote unlesse it be one lately brought from Rome Dr. What need Marke and Luke be called Evangelists seeing their worke doth speake them such Resp You may easily see Mr. Doctor is good at the begging of the question and passing by the matter objected viz. That the Evangelists office 2 Tim. 4 5. is a ministeriall Church worke and not a writing work as I have proved at large in my Letters sent to the Assembly and printed but not Answered because you have not leisure as in your Letters formerly you say concerning this Book Dr. The worke of an Evangalist is not only to Preach but to order matters by Apostolical direction Tit. 1.5 Resp 1. This then shewes your Evangelist was no extraordinary officer in the Church for what he did he did by direction as you and I should do in the Church were we faithful and no otherwise 2. In my forme of Gospel Government for Gospel Churches and in this book you so sift to find chaffe in I have allowed as well Government as Teaching to the Church Ministry according to Jesus Christ and you prove no more for Titus is not for this worke here or any where called Evangelist nor were any where else for that particular act Dr. Is not the writing the history of Christ's life the worke of an Evangelist and if Marke and Luke did this why should they not be called Evangelists Resp An risum teneatis amiei Mr Doctor if they did this why yet should they be called Evangelists unlesse you can canonise them for such by authority of the Presbytery that now is Doctor And is not the work extraordinary was it not indited and directed by the Spirit in Mark and Luke as well as in Mathew and John Resp M. Doctor When you wrot notes on my Book and had it communicated in that disgracefull way as this was I thought you had not vented your self into such like Quries as these 2. A man would have thought your reading would have taught you to distinguish between an Apostle and an Evangilist 3. I thought my former letter to you of this point would have made you blot out this dul notion seeing the Gospel you so much talk of Luke 1. was by him but a setting in order things believed amongst us as himself saith and not inspired into him ver 2. As they delivered them to us And here M. Doctor Who were these but Mark and Luke and then by whom but by eie witnsses which were it is likely Matthew and John with the rest of the Apostles and it may be said of the seventy of which Mark and Luke were not but had it from them that were as is plain and clear to him that is not blinded Doctor And is not the hystory of Christ a fundamentall truth of the Gospel Resp And M. Doctor The Amanuenses of many of the Psalms thâ— Prophets the Epistle of the Romans Tertius Rom. 16.22 were not made there by Evangelists yet are their writings not authoritative they being dictated to by the Apostles and Prophets P. 6. Dr. Rom. 10.15 From Esay 52.7 Is not to be understood of the distinct office of the Evangelist as he differs from the Apostle Prophet Pastor and Teacher but to Evangelize there doth comprehend all the testimony of Jesus in all respects but especially of the Apostles worke and if this be so then from the generall denomination of Evangelizing the distinct office of the Evangelist can be no more proved to be ordinary then from the generall name of Messengers 2 Cor. 8.23 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that the Apostolical Office is ordinary as Preachers are in some sense Evangelists viz. in respect of the glad tydings that they preach Resp That Evangelizing was applyed to the whole Gospel ministry I granted and thence proved that it was an ordinary Office in the Church yet to teach and apply peace with the good things of the Gospel to the strong men in Christ onely was the proper worke of the Church Evangelist to which Paul applieth that of 1 Cor. 1.17 he distinguishing the Teachers Ministry under the act of Baptizing who taught also and the Evangelists Ministry which Paul in Corinth as an ordinary Minister officiated with other his fellow helpers 2. For your parallel place 2 Cor. 8.23 I would you would take your Bible and see how God distinguished these Apostles from the others 1 Cor. 1.1 Eph. 1.1 Collos 1.1 Paul is an Apostle of Jesus Christ the Apostles 2 Cor. 8.23 are Apostles of the Churches Sir I may say to you of this as Christ to the blind Pharisees ye errre not knowing the Scriptures so that this Scripture proves not any hinderance to my conclusion as you seem to affirme but that thence it appears because the name is given in common to the ordinary Ministry it was but an ordinary office in the Church which oft as Pastors and Teachers to remaine therein to the end Dr. That Timothy and Titus were imployed only about one place is so directly opposite to Scripture that nothing can
be more and it was aproperty of the Evangelists office as distinct from the rest and extraordinary to be fixed to no place but to be fellow helpers to the Apostles 2 Cor. 8.23 Resp 1. Reader see how willing the Doctor is to catch at flies and observe the thing he quarrels at is no saying of mine but Chrysostomes on Eph. 4.11 qui occupabantur circa unum duntaxat locum ut Timotheus ac Titus he speaking before of Evangelists 2. For his Scripture being more to be looked after then his arguments 2 Cor. 8.23 Titus is Pauls fâ—llow-helper here he is not called an Evangelist nor was he but Pastor or Teacher in the Church with him onely 2 Tim. 4.5 Paul being to die bid him do the worke of an evangelist and before that time with Paul he never did it Paul in fellowship did that worke P. 7. Dr. Rule of the Schools is true quod Theologia Symbolica est argumenâ—â—tiva Resp Sir I despise not Learning nor the Schooles but the too much tying of men to the Rules of Schooles took away all knowledge and made men fooles heretofore I thinke no Scripture but is argumentive unlesse by the Scripture you overthrow my argument this is a fine way of Answering objections approved in the Schools but not in the Church P. 8. Dr. John's Ministry was medium quid inter legem Evangelium and made both one in that which was substanciall unto both Resp I approve of your learned distinction well which was in my Book made thus to your hand in English that he was not of Moses Ministry Mat. 11.13 nor of Kingdome Ministry ver 11. 2. But that he made both 〈◊〉 that is the Ministry of both one is a thing found out by long study in the Assembly who have found a way to make one two and two one as the Doctor in the Church and the Doctâ—r in the University to be meant in Epb. 4.11 as in your Propositions or for what end is it set there but to blind the world Dr. This is a silly weak Criticisme and there is more inferred upon it then it wil bear 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 differ only in modâ— the same word is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as it is publiquely declared in the name of God it is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and as it is declared to men that are ignorant thereof it is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 there is therefore no ground for a different administration for he that in respect of God is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in respect of men is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Resp 1. Sir If I did criticie it was not wilfully and so it may well be weakly but you do it over and over I do not tell you it is sillily done sure I am you have overdone it I am loath to shew you least you should be ashamed at it 2 Tim. 1.11 Paul is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 here lest you criticks of the Assembly should make the ministry without the Church and that within the Church one he puts the Apostle between to keep them asunder and prove them too 2. Here in respect of God he is not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is false Doctrine Mr Doctor the Apostle saith as Preacher and Teacher he was both in respect of his ministry to men onely and that in differing wayes of ministry the one before the Church ministry which began in the Apostles and ended in the Teachers so that my silly weak Criticism hath the strength of a Gospel truth in it and seemes to beat down your Antichristian Church administration Dr. The arguments which are taken from the order of words and names are of no force except the Scripture adde some Characteristicall note thereunto to expresse that it doth intend the order should be observed as in Eph. 4.11 it doth adde onely a note of distinction but in the 1 Cor. 12.28 it adds a note of order first second third and now Pastors and Teachers are not expressely distingished and from the other as the Apostles Prophets and the Evangelists are and whereas Eph. 4.11 Pastors are named before Teachers 1 Cor. 12.28 only Teachers are named and Evangelists and Pastors are not at all so that in the order of words there can be no great matter to ground such an inference upon Resp Mr Doctor you know my means is short so that I cannot be as large to satisfie the world or you as I would but thus briefly thus before you perverted the Scripture now you seek to take away the glory of it Sir the word is divine not only materialiter but 〈◊〉 formaliter and yet you dare say arguments are not to be taken from the order of words and then come to set Ephesians and Corinths one to oppose the other when indeed they both oppose you shewing you none but Apostles are of the first ranke and so are distinct from Prophets of the second for the third they are all Teachers among which the Evangelist is one with the Pastor and Teacher of which one is not more extraordinary then the other Sir pray see my Letters to the Assembly these are both at large and satisfactorily laid down in them 2. You observe the Pastors and Teachers are not distinguished by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as the Evangelists and Pastors yet you and the grossest Papists allow of Pastors and Teachers not distinguished but confound Evangelists that are is this of God in your Assembly P. 9. Now for an insertion laid downe in my Book that the Ministry without the Church is to be continued stil to prepare for the Church ministry Mr Doctor saith this consequence is so very weake that it deserveth no answer and the ground of it is taken away by what hath been said before Resp Mr Doctor hath quickly done with the businesse but I cannot but wonder that wise men should dally with the truth and deceive the world That Scripture 2 Tim. 1.11 will one day rise in judgement against some men of these dayes I pray look unto it well you that are concerned in it Dr. If a calling of men fitly qualified and setting them apart according to the word maketh men ministers then we have a ministry but the antecedent is true Ergo the Conseâ—ence Resp I denie your major first that your calling is not according to the word nor are you set a part according to the word nor are you members of a true visible constituted Church and so cannot be in that kind fitly qualified but of this pray see my book called The mistery of the Ministry Dr. Also the office of a Pastor and Teacher is undoubtedly ordinary and by his owne confâ—ssion it presupposeth a Church in which it is exercised hath not the Church continued ever since the Apostles Resp I would you would learn to confesse the truth also as I do but Sir though I confesse they are ordinary Teachers yet I confesse not
Scripture as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Act 20.17 he called for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 thus that 1 Cor 12.28 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is that under these words set down in the plurall number the whole ordinary Church ministry are comprehended of Ephesus or Corinth and consequently may be of any other Church Now Reader judge where this be nonsense where a man but of small understanding may not apprehend it though not a Doctor and where it agreeth with the whole scope of my Book or not and how little cause the Doctor hath to call it nonsense Dr. If the thing in question had been proved these objections might have been made but now they are a begging of the question Resp Sir when God hath thrown down Babel he will prove it unto you then and I shall no need beg the Question any more nor if you would yeild to the truth I need not come a begging to you for these things at all P. 11. The third Church Dr. Where was the second Church spoken of For hitherto he hath mentioned only Rome to prove the point which hath yeildâ—d no proof at all Resp 1. The first Church which I now must make the second was that of Ephesians pag 2. O Mr Doctor have you this twelve month been making observations on my Book and pass over the subject of my discourse with so little notice as to ask where the second was sure that text of Scripture doth dazle your eie-sight when ye come to look on it because ye cannot see a single ministry in it it was a wonder that Antichrist did not see this would destroy his way of administrations â—â—r him Dr. Nor is here from this 1 Cor. 12.4 any word of proof but that there are severall administrations to generall persâ—nâ— And what then is therfore an Evangelist a distinct ordinary perpetuall Officer in the Church O silly silly weaknesse Resp Sir take heed lest you come in the compass of those 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 1 Cor 2.17 which are corrupters of the Word Sir how can these gifts belong to generall persons which are to be in every constituted Church ordinarily for which God hath designed severall administraâ—â—oâ—s in the Word Sir your generall persons is a tearm â—o generall to be used in controversy when you more particularly express your self I will more particularly answer you if this do not suffice you P. 11. Mark 6.7 Luk 10.1 Christ sends his forth two by two Dr. This is a proof like all the rest from the circumstance of a fact to argue a perpetuall institution is very weak Christ sends his Disciples by two and two and the ministry of the Gospel is not a single work therfore beside Pastors and Teachers there must be Evangelists in ordinary and perpetually in office What a senslesse consequence is this Resp This act of Christ was brought only to prove against a single ministry as now used the Church being not yet fully constituted 2. Whereas you make a great cry of nothing with a O Yes this is proof like all the rest from the circumstance of a fact Sir what if you had no more to convince you of your single ministry is not this enough was not here the sending of the Apostles and seventy to teach according to which pattern should not you walk by if you would walk in the truth had Moses more then the pattern to do all his Tabernacle work by Sir was this only done in one two or were not all the eighty two so sent forth and so commemorated by the Evangelists sure if the thing were so slight as you make it there would not have been that care to set it down there was And as these now so after they alwaies did in the Historie of the Acts go two or three together from this their former Commission Sir if men would believe you it were nothing for you to make nothing of overcoming the truth with branding it with senslesse consequence drawn by your self out of that was never intended by me and so if there be any senslesnesse in the consequence it is your own and none of mine P. 12. I shewed why Christ sent the Disciples and seventy by two and two and not by three because none were to officiate the Evangelists office while Christ was living and in this he was 〈◊〉 And whereas I said I remember not that the Apostles are said to Evangelize during Christ's being on earth Mr Doctor in his Scholia saith This assertion is false the twelve did Evangelize while Christ was alive the text saith it expresly Luk 9.6 Resp 1. I did not assert the thing but said as I did remember it is not said they did not I hastily writing did not examine it 2. That they did Evangelize as the Church Evangelists did in constituted Churches after Christ's resurrection I say that the assertion if Mr Doctor will have it so is true and the contrary false P. 12. The time of gathering Churches was not yet come c. Dr. Those that became Disciples to Christ to what were they gathered why were not they a Church that were united to him by faith as his members Resp Mr Doctor may satisfie himself concerning these Questions without my Answer I wonder he useth a why and what about it 1. Were there not many a one with him by faith that were not in publique Church Fellowship or in Church Ordinances with him as Lot Job and others before not circumcised many in the Antichristian church now are of Christ's invisible church Rev. 18.4 and no man will say these were in a visible church socieâ—y of Christ why were they called out else Nicodemus and others 2. The Holy Ghost will give another answer Act 1.4 they must tarry at Jerusalem for the Holy Ghost before they constituted churches yea in Judea and Jerusalem vers 4. and Eph 4.8 10 11. will shew you Christ went to Heaven before he gave thâ— gifts of church ministry to the church to be ministred unto in a church way as they after were to be administred Dr. Christ declares that M ses ministry was at an end with John the Baptists time Math 11.12 13. Luk 16.16 Resp 1. Neither of these Scriptures say that it was at an end but that it was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 untill John 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. from thenceforth the Kâ—ngdom of Heaven is preached Note untill John there was none else but Moses ministry and that it was not utterly abolished in John's time or by John Math 23.1 2. Jesus said to the Disciples and to the Multitude The Scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses Chair Whatsoever therfore they say unto you do ye c. This was in the last year of Christs ministry and after John the Baptists death and yet it is not abolished utterly if it were dead it was not buried 2. That churches were not constituted see the Historie Act 6. Deacons are set up in the church after 1 Cor 6.1 the
we take your words to be divine Oracles it is enough but methinks it were more like your selfe to say thus saith the Lord not I as faithfull Paul said or else say thus saiâ— I and not the Lord but you will say I say this now and anon you will say God said but if God had said so you would not have weakened your cause so as to say I say 1 Pet. 4.10 as every man hath received the gift that is the ministerial call from the Church so minister the same not other gifts by your leave of this I writ fully in my Letters I wonder I do not hear from you I fear some private papers in the darke as this are sent abroad by you to catch silly soules withall Dr. If God send forth fellow-labourers 〈…〉 they are to do their work joyntly and distinctly according to their Talent which they shall have and shall make them fittest for service the Apostle 1 Tim 3. Tit 1. where he expresly doth institute the appoyntment of Church Officers doth name none but Presbyters and Deacons and under that name comprehends Pastors and Teachers not in distinct but in the same persons although if God send forth more labourers then are in a particular Vineyard they may apply themselves distinctly more to one then to the other as their Talents make them fittest for service but if there be no more then one alone sent forth he is to deal as the severall objects and occasions require his service Resp Sir your joyntly which you allow to the Gospel labourers is of necessity you cannot deny that for the Scriptures are so clear but your leaven lyeth hid yea you allow they must do it distinctly also but joyntly in a Nationall Church distinctly in a Parochiall otherwise it cannot be understood in your societies Did Paul Sylvanus Timothy do their work thus Nationally Mr Doctor You have not these in any Church who should have them in all And after again you say the word Presbyter comprehends Pastors and Teachers not in distinct but the same persons I hope when you read this again you will be ashamed of it As for your conceit of a particular Vineyard and applying themselves more to one then another hath no ground or proof from Scripture and then you tell us of the sending out of 〈◊〉 Labourerâ— Scripture speaks of no such thing P. 25. The true and false ministry are distinguished from the differing materials 1 Cor 3.12 Dr. This is your ordinary fault to lay too much weight upon Metaphoricall and Allegoricall speeches Resp Sir the Kingdom of God was set out in Allegories and is in especiall manner if ever to be known to be known from them Satan now to keep this Kingdom hid hath taught men a long time to deny any argument to be deduced from them to prove any thing at all by But Sir why not from them Is it not the Word of God And is not the Kingdom and mysteries thereof laid up in them It cannot be denied but thence a discovery comes to be made against the present practice Indeed if you will say because they are not understood we cannot argue from them it were something and so may be said of all the Scriptures Dr. You stretch the matter beyond the Apostles scope and so you do continually in all this discourse Resp Mr Doctor Lis coram judicibus est Dr. It is clear the Apostle doth presuppose that the same man may at one time build hay at another stubble and at another wood and the same man may build gold and silver and precious stones at different times nay and this is clear that at one time a man may build gold and silver and at another hay and stubble You stretch the Apostles words beyond his scope and rack them to another purpose then the Holy Ghost doth intend and then in all this following discourse you make upon this sandy ground a building of fantasticall conjectures to prove your poynt Resp Mr Doctor your single stubble ministry may some of them not at one time build gold and silver and at another hay and stubble but gold silver hay wood and stubble at oâ—â—â— teaching for ought I know Sir the question hangs on these 1. Where there were a single ministry at Corinth to do this or not or your supposition is nothing and your doctrine false and Antichristian that is worse 1 Cor 1.12 and chap 4.6 15. chap 12.9 2. Where Paul in his Epistle doth not endeavour to describe the false Church ministry and their work from the true and their work both ministring in Corinth or not as in his second Epistle written from Philippy as the first was in which this is opened clearly 2 Cor 11.4 where the Teacher of each society is applyed unto who is said to teach Jesus the foundation yea and the Gospel which Paul taught but in a corrupt way as vers 3. He was afraid lest their minds were corrupted from the simplicity of Christ And now lest the Apostle should be thought to aim at one individuall person in the word he vers 3. compares vers 13 14. Satans Ministers to the Ministers of Christ for number order way of ministry as Paul in the Gospel had taught to be Or who knoweth not that the Church of Corinth could not so easily be seduced by them 3. But that this is not meant of a single ministry as the Doctor dreams I commend to his consideration 1 Cor 3. vers 13. The fire shall try every mans work of what sort it is 1. Here is every man not one mans work then is applyed to 2. Every mans work is of one of these sorts and not one mans of all of these sorts as Mr Doctor I will not say fantastically conjectures 3. Vers 14. If any mans work abide Vers 15. If any mans work shall be burnt See Reader how corrupt the Doctors exposition is and contrary to the Scripture by his doctrine no mans work shall abide his ministry builds hay wood anâ— stubble nor no mans work be burned for again his ministry builds gold silver precious stones Mr Doctor your doctrine is wooden doctrine at last you will suffer losse by it P. 26. 1 Cor 4.6 These things have I transferred to my self and Apollo Dr. The Apostle transferred the things he spake of his Stewardship of the Apostleship received of God and of his faithfulnesse therein to himself and to Apollo to teach the Corinthians not to be puffed up so one against another and that they should not esteem more of any man then they ought But you run out into endlesse mistakes and mis-applications of the Apostles meaning and confound the places together which have quite different scopes Resp 1. If the Doctor writes two leâ—â—es for refutation to help fill up the margent of my Book he writes two or three of bombast railing accusations without giving reason as here you confound places together but noâ— shew where Sure he had no leisure to shew in
what but he hath leisure to reproach as if he were angry at this doctrine of the Gospel 2. He transfers the things of the Stewardship of his Apostleship to himself and Apollo as if Apollo were an Apostle as Paul was or as if the Stewardship of an Apostle were transferrable to a ordinary Church minister other way then in their ordinary Church ministry as they had been joyned in their ministring to the Church of Corinth in an ordinary way of ministry 3. The puffing up one against another with the Apostles adding here these things must relate to something preceding and what then but that in which Paul and Apollo are mentioned or at least concerned 1 Cor 1.12 Every one of you saith I am of Paul and I of Apollo I of Cephas In this these of Pauls society boasted themselves against those of Apollos those of Apollos against those of Cephas and those against the Catecumerii And thus and no way else could every one of the Church be puffed up Now these were distinguished in themselves as well as ministers 1 Cor 3.5 where the believers are divided under their severall ministry as the Lord hath given them to believe vers 9. Paul and Apollo are co-workers in the work of the Gospel Now Paul transfers these things from them which succeeded them in their place of ministry the ministers to himself and his fellow labourers who wrought with him in the Gospel there for the Churches sake that they should not think of men above that is written Now if any men should have been admired by them it had been Paul and Apollo 1 Cor 3.5 Who is Paul or Apollo Now if these were not to be looked on more then instruments much lesse their own ordinary Church ministry residing amongst them who were far inferiour to the Apostle and the rest but look on God and the Ordinances P. 26. Of Aaron his sons the Priests and Levites Dr. Truly in all this discourse from the beginning to the end I can see nothing you do but hunt after shadows Resp 1. Mr. Doctor might have seen by what is said before that the Assembly in their propositions did not place the Evangelist rightly in putting him before the Prophet against expresse Scripture Eph. 4.11 I fear there was corruption in it enough to shew he will never see if he can choose an Evangelist is an ordinary Minister â—â—ought 〈…〉 the Church and therefore put him before the Prophet that none should once question it Did not God foresee this and shew this was of great concernment when 1 Cor 12.28 he set down first Apostles secondly Prophets not Evangelists it is clear And thus on intreaty ye cannot see to mend as if it were not so or no error though ye have been called on to do it 2. Mr Doctor I use this as a shadow only as is in words expressed but you in your propositions for the Pastor confirm your ministry by theirs as by Gospel-authority and you confirm your Governours and Government by them as in the secâ—â—â—â— for Church Governours 3. You confesse they have a representation of spirituall things why did you not tell where of the ministry or not you were afraid To say it did not lest every child should descry either your weaknesse or wilfull corruptnesse and therfore you say very warily Dr. Now it is not to be denied but these things have some signification and representation of spirituall things but I am sure they do not near your purpose Or if they relate to the work of the ministry in some sense yet they will not evince that Evangelists in your sense are to be perpetuall and ordinary Officers and that there must be in every Congregation such distinct Officers as you imagine Resp 1. Mr Doctor do you come with an if they relate to the work of the ministry you do learnedly to question that 2. You are sure not to my purpose that is you are conceitedly sure but arâ— not sure from the word if you are why did you not set down from what Scripture that I may be made sure or as well as you Sir think you I may not as well say for any ground you have set down to the contrary sure the Doctor is deceived in this poynt 3. But if they do relate to the ministry yet they will not evince that Evangelists are to be c. Mr Doctor I told you it was but a shadow I hunted not for it to prove the Gospel Government by it as you do I used it only to illustrate and shew the ministry in the Jewish Church in some kind did resemble this under the Gospel in such things as are morall that the Church was to be ministred to other waies then by a single ministry Sir in the margent of my Book pag 27. at Rom 2.20 that babes are the Teachers Congregation you set your mark of C upon it but durst not stay there nor say a word lest you should open a gap for it You have touched but little of my Book and that you have done is to as little purpose as ever Doctor did undertake to do a thing as every rationall unprejudiced man will say that seeth it and here 's the cry you make with it P. 27. Not to baptize but to Evangelize Dr. It is proper to all that preach the Gospel to baptize such as did receive their commission for the one the other is joynt Math 28.19 I think it should be did for the other Resp 1. _____ which is properly to make Disciples and signifieth that teaching that went before baptizing as in the order of the words is to be observed 2. Thâ— Disciples here sent out had by 〈◊〉 extraordinary call to do all which we have not 3. Baptisme brought them into the Church after which the Apostle distinguisheth again by another kind of teaching called Evangelizing which differed from that went before baptizing in Math 28. Col 1.17 and from his teaching baptized Dr. To baptize was no more proper to the Doctor then the Evangelist Resp This you only assert on your own word but Sir in that there are to be in the Church Evangelists Pastors Tâ—achers how are these in the Gospel distinguished for ministry and administrations If one have to do in the Church as much in all ordinances as the other then all are Evangelists all Pastors all Teachers if nothing be proper to eithers ministry but all alike Sir though the Smoke of the Temple hath blinded your eies yet the light of the Gospel may let you see other things Sir by this you would make God the Author of Confusion who is the God of Order and that you so oft call confusion in my Book is Gospel order in Gods Book Rom 2.20 He that was the Teacher of Babes was the Baptizer of Babes but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 was the Teacher Ergo Dr. To baptize was not the main work for which the Apostles were sent nor for which ministers are appoynted to preach the Gospel
the Doctor could not understand it or rather would not as being a fine way of evasion it had been his wisest way to have done thus with all that he could not obâ—ect against which is materially against him as the rest P. 32. 1 Tim. 3.14 Dr. This place is neither rightly alledged nor applied rightly to the Apostles scope Resp The former part of the words were not truely Printed the latter which hath that which was intended are rightly obtained to themselves a good degree in the house of God which was to shew that any office in the house of God was of great honour and men should be content with any therein though the lowest P. 34. Heb. 14.17 Dr. The Apostle writes to all the Hebrews in the world Resp Mr Doctor how doth this appear I wil not take your word for it was Heb. 5.12 said to the Jewes of all the world or chap. 12.22 Dr. These had many leaders in several Congregations and he desires them respectively to be subject to them that is that each Congregation should submit to â—â—â— r â—wn Resp Mr Doctor Doth Paul write as John to the seven Churches or Peter to the dispersed in Galatia Capadocia c. that you dare affirm this you doe on these tearms and at last for your parochiall liberty or all were lost Doctor From hence you will infer because the word Leaders is in the plurall number that every congregation hath many leaders which is very weak Resp From whence shall I inferre but from the Scriptures James 5.14 and I provoke you to shew in all the Scripture where the whole Church Ministry are spoken of of any Church and are not set down in the plurall number and M. Dr. to say they should be in every Congregation is a conclusion of your own and none of mine I say in every Church as for the weaknesse of it I know it is not the weaker for your blowing on it But M. Doctor What think you of Acts 14.23 they ordained them Elders in every Church 1. these not Nationall Churches 2. Nor were they Elders ordained Doct. Then you say that these leaders are to be meant by the ministring officers and not ruling Elders by verse 7. but that verse doth speak of those that guide and rule _____ and no ruling Elders should be no others then such as are able to speak the word on occasion nor should those that speak the word be without a guiding and ruling authority for the leading is to be according to the word and by it which makes the Doctor and the Pastor to be the same Resp Mr Dr. the _____ are all here spoken of either ruling Elders or teaching Elders I speak according to your own distinstion but that they are teaching and not ruling Elders verse 7. They have spoken to you the word and for that conceit that the ruling Elder should be such 1. I require you to sâ—ew me the constitution of ruling Elders 2. The command or practice that any was to or did do such a thing if not Sir you doe but undervalue your selfe to write such things at all 3. You come with your old device and find away out of this text and every text to make the Doctor and Pastor â—nâ— but let me mind you if by divine institution they are two you wrong the truth and your self and the Church also to make them one and here spoke of as of diverse persons Sir I shall ingeniously confesse that of all the books I ever read of my little reading I never read any man that endeavoured to make Pastor and Teacher one as you have all along done and altogether opposite to the truth yea the Assembly propositions Adeo dat Eph. 4.11 the two last ordinary and perpetuall that is the Pastor and Doctor Wollebius Pastores Ecclesiis Doctores Scholis Praefecti Eph. 4.11 Arminius disp Theol. Corrol 59. mâ—diate vocati Pastores Doctores Episcopi Praesbyteri qui certis Ecclesiis sunt praefecti Calvini Just lib. 4. cap. 4. ex ordine Praesbyterorum partim eligebantur Pastores Doctores Bilson Vide Zanch praecep 4. cap. 19. and the Churches practice in New-England Pag. 35. People Ministers and ordinary ministry Doct. O these allusions and applications are no proofs of the point Resp which Dionysius they are as I have since the writing of my book read to good satisfaction and many more of the Antients though the Doctor saith it is nought P. 35. That the man of God may be perfect 2. Tim. 3.16 17. Doctor This perfection is the end and effect of the foregoing usefulnesse of the Scripture and from thence is to be inferred that by the Doctors and Pastors office rightly used the man of God will become perfect Resp M. Doctor Why do ye not adde the Evangelists offici you may as well for the Doctor nor Pastors office is not rightly used in your Presbytery but these rightly used with the Evangelist through the effect and usefulnesse of the Scripture make the man of God perfect Doctor And therefore none other distinct office in ordinary is requisite to infer because the word perfection is here used that therefore an Evangelists office is intimated as a meer fancy Resp 〈◊〉 Doctor 〈◊〉 Pastor is not mentioned yet they are allowed but there is no allowance for an Evangelist an ordinary Church-minister no less of God intended then the rest but is still cast off by Mr Doctor for and with the reproach of fancy notion whimsy P. 36. Evangelized Christian man Doctor What this Evangelized Christian man is distinct from him that is taught and governed I know not neither do I believe you can shew Resp M. Dr. As in Adam so in Christ there are differing statures you may being a rationall man understand the one by the other now as he differs in stature from children so should the administrations differ that are administred in the Church to him accordingly 2. That this Evangelized Christian should differ from one taught and governed by the Gospel is a conceite of your own and none of mine P. 26. 1. Doctrine is not for all but babes only 2. Exhortation for young men only Evangelical ministry for perfect men only Doctor Is not the teacher and the exhorter a Gospel minister this is a fancy indeed which hath no ground Resp Mr Dr. See Rom. 12.6 7. Prophesie is for the Prophet ministry for the Evangelist Teaching for the Teacher exhortation for the exhorter and is not the exhorter or teacher a minister in this place and is not this a fancy the Apostle speaks in this place or what saith the other then said before P. 36. 1 Cor. 4.1 Of that men are Ministers they are stewards onely the Dr. of doctrinall part the Pastor of the pastorall c. Doctor Is not the doctrinall of the Evangelicall part of ministry Resp The Gospel ministry is Evangelicall all but is divided into three parts by God in the Gospel one being not more Evangelicall then the other Doctor Why do you leave out the practicall which is the Pastorall charge Resp It s well you are so sensible as to misse one in my writing you doe not miss two in your Church one is enough you know not what to doe with any more but see Mr Dr. 2 Tim. 1.12 puts down Apostle the first of the Church ministry and Dr. of the last and under these comprehends the rest and will you not allow me this if not I will take it Dr. There is no more requisite but faith and obedience which two are wrought out by the doctorall and pastorall administrations what use is there of this Imaginary part of the Exangelist distinct from both Resp Mr Dr. Faith and obedience are ministred under Teacher Pastor Evangelist one as well as the other according to the capacity of those are taught each one by degrees perfecting Faith and Obedience in the Saints the Doctors Teachers faith and obedience to Saints as children the Pastor as young men the Evangelist as strong men and not as the Doctor dreams one teacheth faith onely the oâ—her obedience Thus the Dr. having done with my book I have done with him untill he please to rejoyn and begin again only this I commend to thee Reader that that which followeth in my Book did more particularly strike at presbytery which the Doctleft to some other to do or to some other time to do or afraid it may be it would trouble his mind to study it or what ever it was he thought he had done enougâ— in this for once and so have I at this time Vale. If thou hast any knowledge of thâ— truth of the Gospel hereby at all FINIS