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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A74992	An ansvver to Mr. J.G. his XL. queries, touching the lawfulness, or unlawfulness of holding church-communion, between such who have been baptized after their beleeving, and others who have not otherwise been baptized, then in their infancie. As likewise touching infant, and after baptism. In which answer, the undueness of such mixt communion is declared, the unlawfulness of infant-baptism, and the necessity of after baptism is asserted. By W.A.	Allen, William, d. 1686.	1653 (1653)	Wing A1054A; Thomason E713_17; ESTC R207237	74,298	97

which men have formerly devised to make the way of the Gospel more easie and plausible as to the fl●sh then Christ hath made it and these blots are so essentiall to Communion as that we know not how to eat of your Sacrifice and not be partakers of your Altar i.e. to hold Church-communion with you and not make our selves guilty of that which we condemne in the way of your Communion 2. As for the crime laid to the charge of this humour as out friend is pleased to call it of the Baptists viz. the breaking the Bonds of Vnity Love and Peace by which they were bound up with other Churches before it is nothing but what the Protestant Bishops underwent from the Pap●sts when they went off from them and the P●esbyterians from the Prelates and the Independents from the Presbyterians when they separated themselves from them and therefore I hope no wise man will be much startled with such scare-crowes as these in his eying a worke of Reformation or think the worse of the baptismall way because it carryes men yet a little further in reforming upon which account they are constrained to leave their friends behind that will not go with them as they themselves also have done those from whom they have departed 3. But as for estimating Christianity it selfe and acceptance with God by this despised way of Baptisme surely if any doe estimate Christianity by this onely for otherwise I hope it may beare its part and signifie its numb●r in the r ckoning as well as other Christian duties they are much to b●ame but that the Querist did ever know or hath ground to believe that any the men he speaks of much lesse all have or do make such an estimation I cannot easily conceive sure I am such a thing is far from their frequent Declaration of themselves as to this particular and therefore how duly or unduly the Querist hath coupled these poore Baptists with men of such unworthy straines and tempers as those are represented to be with whom they are compared and into whose company he hath put them for what cause he best knowes we must leave to God and sober men to judge XXXIX Querie answered 1. That Mr. Philpot spake or wrote as he thought in affirming Auxentius an Arrian to be the first and Pelagius the second that nyed the Baptisme of Children I will not deny but that he had any good ground so to think or so to say is that which I do deny for as Mr. Philpot did not speak this of his own knowledge so neither could any Author whom he must credit herein be able to affirme any such thing unlesse he had been more then a man and had knowne what and when every man in the world that discoursed these things had affirmed or denyed concerning them Besides were not Authors of Bookes in former times at least some of them men of like infirmity with severall in these times who have written and affirmed things of the Independents themselves not so much out of knowledge and judgement as out of disaffection if so are not or may not they be abused or misguided in their apprehensions that take all historicall relations and representations concerning the Anabaptists falsly so called for truth as well as they are and are like to be who accordingly do or sh●ll credit all that is written of the Independents by men disaffected to their way Besides what credit can be given to ancient Authors hereabout when many ancient Bookes are acknowledged to be spurious and others to be corrupted by the Papists who have put in and put out in their long reign of darknesse what would best serve their interest And that which is yet more considerable is that if it should appeare by unquestionable History which for ought I could ever learne does not but the contrary that the baptising of Children had been practised in the next age after the Apostles yet unlesse it could be made appeare that it was practised by approbation of the Apostles in the Apostles times or that by some injunction it ought so to have been it would not at all be any ground to warrant such a practise now because as the mystery of iniquity did begin to work in the Apostles dayes so there was a departing in part from the purity and simplicity of the Gospel and an introducing of the inventions of men whilest it was yet but early I know saith Paul that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you not sparing the flocke also of your owne selves shall men arise speaking perverse things to draw away Disciples after them Act. 20.29 30. But 2. If the Querist thinks Mr. Philpot is worthy of credit in his foresaid report though he produce no Authors may not the Authors of a Book entituled A very plaine and well grounded Treatise concerning Baptisme be rather credited in their allegation of Authors that assert the contrary to Mr. Philpot Amongst very many Authors which they produce on this account I shall instance in some few In pag. 19. of the said Book thus Tertullian in Libro de Baptismo That Infants or young Children should not be so speedily baptised and upon the saying of the Lord Suffer little Children to come unto me and forbid them not he speaketh thus Let them come when they are growne and are able to be instructed when they can learne to know Christ then may they be Christians For if youth be not so hastily to be put in trust with earthly goods why with heavenly Let them therefore know first how to desire that which is for their good to the intent that it being desired it may be given them And now I doubt not but the Querist well knowes that Tertullian lived long before Auxentius and Pelagius had a being in world and therefore by this it will appeare that Mr. Philpot was not worthy of credit in reporting them to be the first that denyed the baptising of Chi●dren Page 28. Erasmus in annotationibus supra 5. cap. ad Rom. Baptising of young Children was not as yet in use by S. Pauls time Roffensis contra cap. Babylon The first Rulars in their Church have used such manner of b●ptisme as Christ never used in his Church Dr. Eckius against the new Church orders in the upper Marquisdom and Territories of Noremburg writeth That the ordinances concerning the baptism of children is without Scripture and is found to be onely a custom of the Church Page 30. Bucerus in his book entituled the ground-work and cause c. In the Congregation of God confession of sins is alwayes the first the which in times past went before baptism for commonly children were baptized when they came to their understanding And again in the beginning of the Chu ch no man was bapt●z●d received into the congregation but those that through h●aring the word wholly gave ov●r and submitted themselves to Christ And again in annotationibus super 4. Iohn So much as in

Such whose ground on which they stand is truth though they ought with all sweetness love and meekness to invite and perswade others to come over to them yet may by no means depart thence or remove their standing no though it were to gain others to them 1 Cor. 9.21 To them that are without Law as without Law being not without Law to God but under the Law to Christ that I might gain them that are without Law Ier. 15.19 Let them return to thee but return not thou unto them Phil. 3.15 16. If in any thing ye be otherwise minded God shal reveal even this unto you Nevertheless whereto we have already attained let us walk by the same rule let us minde the same thing 6. Though endless Genealogies and striving ●bout the Law and the eating of meats and hearbs are but such things and the truth concerning them but of that nature as that for the sake thereof peace must not be broken Tit. 3.9 1 Tim. 1.4 Rom. 14. yet first such points or questions as concern the fulfilling of any righteousness of which those that concern the essentials of Baptism are Mat. 3.15 are such as of which the Kingdom of God does consist and in the defence of which men serve Iesus Christ and are accepted with God and ought to be approved of men Rō 14.17 18. Secondly not onely Gospel Doctrines about matters of faith but also matters of Gospel order such as the Apostle cals Ordinances appointmen●s or traditions 1 Cor. 11.2 even these are truths to be contended for and not to be let go for peace sake And the Apostle thought this a sufficient answer to such as should contend against these viz. that they had no such custome neither the Churches of God ver 16. with ver 2 3 4 5. c. And if the Churches of God then had no such custom nei●her as to sprinkle or Baptise little children or to admit members to Church-communion without Baptism does not the Apostles saying here though produced upon another occasion evince their contention sinful and unreasonable likewise that shal plead for and practise such things as these contrary to the custom of the first Churches which in all laudable things were patterns to al succeeding Churches The Apostle having in 2 Thes 2. given notice of the Mystery of iniquity it● b●gining then to work ver 7. and the coming of the man of sin with all deceiveableness of unrighteousness ver 10. which we know in the Papal Apostacy hath fallen out as wel in matters of Gospel order as in points of faith he to prevent a defection in both exhorts them ver 15. to stand fast and to hold the Traditions which they had been taught yea and in chap. 3. v. 6. counts that a disorderly walking which was not after the Tradition which they had received from the Apostles And if it were the wisdom and duty of the Churches then to stand fast and to hold fast the Traditions which they had received from the Apostles as wel touching matters of Gospel Order as otherwise to prevent their falling into Anti-christian pollutions then doubtless the way for men now to recover themselves and others from under those pollutions is by returning back to these Apostolical traditions and standing fast in them which doubtless is their duty what disturbance soever may follow thereupon ERRATA PAge 9. l. 15. r. those particular cases p. 25. l. 21. r. neither p. 44. l. 13 r. a p. 49. l. 25. r. supposing p. 52. l. 1 r. formally ib. l. 4. r. is p. 55. l. 16. r. such as have p. 55 l. 24. r. the time of his Baptism p. 57. l. 25. r. and p. 58. l. 24. r. of 59. l. 4. r. describe p. 59. l. 32. r. those p. 60. l. 6 r. words p. 61. l. 16. r. line p. 61. l. 26. r. of p. 61. l. 28. r. when p. 63. l. 3. r. 2 p. 64. l. 14. r. unreasonable p. 66. l. 1. r. much ib. l. 2. r. bapti ib. l. 14. r. meet p. 69. l. 26. r. about p. 72. l. 12. r. charging p. 72. l. 19. r. those p. 72. l. 19. r. practiseth An Answer to Mr. I. G. his XL. Queries touching Church-Communion between such as have been Baptised after they have Beleeved and others who have not otherwise been Baptised then in their Jnfancie As likewise touching Infant and after Baptism THe thoughts of the Worthy Author of the Book Intituled Philadelphia touching the subject matter of that Book being propounded Queri●-wise there is I suppose li●tle Question to be made but that it was with an expectation on his part to receive a return from the hand of some friend or other in order to a further Discovery of Truth in that particular Case of Conscience about which the Queries are imployed And therefore rather then ●he desire of this worthy friend should in this behalf be kept too long fasting I have resolved having first waited a while for some more able hand to have undertaken it through the assistance of God to offer my mite towards this service to which I adress my self as follows Querie I. Whether is there any Precept or example in the Gospel of any Baptized Person his disclaiming of Communion in Church-fellowship with those whom he Judges true Beleevers upon account onely of their not having been Baptized Respondant As for matter of Example for such a practise there is I suppose none in Scripture no more then there is of disclaiming communion with the Church of Rome as now it is or with the the Parochial Churches in England or elsewhere and yet it wil not follow that the one is any more unlawful then the other For Scripture examples are matters of Fact and therefore there having been no such corrupt practise crept into the world till after all the books of the holy Scriptures were finished as is the constituting of Churches without Baptism or upon Infant sprinkling in stead of Baptism which in true construction is not onely no Baptism at all but even worse then none as much as to commit an evil action is worse then to omit a good one there being I say no such corruption as this then on foot no more then there was the now Romish the National or Parochial Church-constitution then in being there could be no occasion for any truely Baptized person to disclaim communion either with the one or with the other and consequently no such matter of Fact to be Recorded of which to make an example But then it no more follows that it is unlawful to refuse communion with the one Church then it is with the other if there be no more ground in Scripture to constitute Churches without Baptism then there is for the Romish National and Parochial constitution The Querist then having himself disclaimed communion with the Church of Rome and the Parochiall Churches in England though he have no example in scripture so to do and yet hath done it because there is no example