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A10777	Certe[n] godly, learned, and comfortable conferences, betwene the two reuerende fathers, and holye martyrs of Christe, D. Nicolas Rydley late Bysshoppe of London, and M. Hughe Latymer sometyme Bysshoppe of Worcester, during the tyme of their emprysonmentes. Whereunto is added. A treatise agaynst the errour of transubstantiation, made by the sayd reuerende father D. Nicolas Rydley. M.D.LVI.	Ridley, Nicholas, 1500?-1555.; Latimer, Hugh, 1485?-1555. aut; Ridley, Nicholas, 1500?-1555. Brief declaracion of the Lordes Supper. aut	1556 (1556)	STC 21048; ESTC S115941	68,037	134

of good mē which is the churche in deed or for the multitude of euell men whiche is the malignante churche and synagoge of Sathan Apo. 2. And is also the thirde takinge of the churche of the which although there be seldomer mentiō in the scriptures in that signification yet in the worlde euen in the most famouse assembles of christendome this churche hath borne the greatest swynge This distinction presupposed of the three sortes of churches it is an easye matter by a figure called Synecdoche to geue to the mingled and vniuersall churche that which canne not truelye be vnderstanded but onely of th one parte therof But if any manne will stiflye affirme that vniuersalitie dooth so pertaine vnto the churche that whatsoeuer Christe hath promised to the church it muste needes be vnderstanded of that I woulde gladly knowe of the same man wher that vniuersalle churche was in the tymes of the patriarches and pophetes Exod. 17. 3. Reg. 19. Hiere 6. of Noe Abraham and Moses at such tyme as the people wold haue stoned hym of Helias of Hieremie in the tymes of Christe and the dispersion of the Apostles in the time of Arius when Constantius was Emperour Theo. ecc his l. 2. c. 15 61. and Felix bisshoppe of Rome succeded Liberius It is worthie to be noted that Lira writeth apon Mathew Lyra in Matt. The churche sayeth he doth not stande in men by reason off theyr power or dignitee whether it be Ecclesiasticall or seculer for many princes ād popes and other inferiours haue ben fownde to haue fallen awaye frome godde Therfore the churche consisteth in those persones in whome is true knowlege and confession of the fayth and off the Truthe Euell men as it is in a glose of the Decrees are in the churche in name and not in dede De poenit dist 1. c. ecclesia Lib. 1. c. 33. And S. Augustine contra Crescomū gram̄aticū sayeth Who so euer is afrayed to be deceiued by the darkenesse off this qwestiō let hym aske cownsell at the same church of it which churche the scripture doth poynte oute withoute any doubtefulnesse All my notes which I haue written and gathered owte of such authors as I haue redde in this matter and suche like are com̄e into the hādes of such as will not let me haue the leaste of all my writtē bookes wherin I am enforced to complayne of them vnto godde for they spoile me of all my labours which I haue takē in my studye these many yeares My memorie was neuer goode for helpe wheroff I haue vsed for the moste parte to gather owte notes of my readinge and so to place thē that therby I might haue hadde the vse of them when the tyme required But who knoweth whether this be goddes will that I shulde be thus ordred ād spoiled of the poore learninge I hadde as me thoughte in stoore to thintēte that I now destitute of that shuld frome hēceforth learne onely to knowe with Paule 1. Cor. 2. Christe and hym crucifyed The Lorde graūte me herin to be a goode yonge scoler and to learne this lesson so wel that neither deathe nor liffe wealth nor woo c. make me euer to forgette that Amē Amē I haue no more to saye in this matter for you your selfe haue sayd all that is to be sayed H. Laty. That same vehemente sayeng of S. Augustine I wolde not beleue the gospelle c. was wonte to troble manie men as I remember I haue redde it well qualiffied off Philippe Melanchton but my memorie is alltogether slypperie This it is in effecte The churche is not a iudge Mel. de eccles but a witnesse Ther wer in his tyme that lyghtly estemed the testimony of the churche and the owtwarde ministerie of preachynge and reiected the owteward worde it selfe stickinge only to theyr inwarde reuelations Such rasshe contempte of the worde prouoked and droue S. Augustine into that excessiue vehemence In the which after the bare sownd of the wordes he might seeme to such as doo not attaine vnto his meanynge that he preferred the churche farre before the gospell and that the Churche hath a free Authoritee ouer the same but that godly man neuer thoughte so It wer a saynge worthy to be broughte forthe agaynst the Anabaptistes which thinke the open ministerie to be a thinge not necessarie if they anie thinge estemed such testimonies I wolde not sticke to affirme that the moore parte of the greate howse that is to saye of the hoole vniuersall churche maye easely erre And agayne I wolde not sticke to affirme that it is one thinge to be gathered together in the name off Christe and another thinge to comme together with a Masse off tholye ghooste goynge before For in the firste Christe ruleth in the latter the deuel beareth the swinge and how then can anie thinge be goode that they goo abowte frome thys latter shall our Sixe Articles comme forth agayne into the lyghte they them selfes being verie darkenesse But it is demaunded A questiō whether the fownder or better parte of the catholyque church may be seene of men or no S. Paule sayeth Ansvuer The Lorde knoweth them that are his What maner of speaking is this in commēdation of the lorde if we knowe as well as he who are his Well thus is the texte The Sure fowndation of godde standeth still and hath this seale the Lorde knoweth them that are hys and let euerie man that nameth the name of Christe departe frome iniquite Now how many are ther of the hoole Catholique church of England which departe from iniquite How many of the noble men how many of the bysshops or cleargie how many of the ryche men or merchauntes how many of the qwenes cownsellers yea how many of the hoole realme In how smalle rowme then I praye you is the true church within the realme of Englande and wher is it and in what state I hadde a cōceipte of myne owne well grownded as they saye when I began but now it is fallen by the waye Anton. obiect 8. Matt. 18. Generall Coūsels represent the vniuersall church ād haue this promesse of Christe wher two or thre be gathered together in my name ther am I in the myddes of thē If Christe will be present with ij or iij. then moche more wher ther is so great a multitude c. But in generall counsels Masse hath ben approued and vsed Therfore c. Off the vniuersall church which is mingled of goode N. Ryd and badde thus I thinke Whēsoeuer they which be chieffe in it which rule and gouerne the same and to whome the reaste of the hoole mysticall bodye of Christe doth obey are the lyuely members of Christe and walke after the guydinge and rule of his worde and goo before the flocke towardes euerlasting lyffe thē vndoubtedly Cownsels gathered together of suche guydes and Pastours of the Christiāe flocke doo in dede represēte the vniuersall

were a laboure to greate for to gather and to tedyous for the reader but one or twoo places of euerye one The whiche howe plaine and howe full and cleare they bee againste the erroure of Transubstantiation I referre it to the iudgemente of thindifferente reader And nowe I wil likewise rehearse the saiynges of other three olde aunciente writers of the Lattin Churche and soe make an ende Tertulliā And firste I will begin with Tertullian whom Cypriane the holy Martyr so highlie estemed that whēsoeuer he would haue his booke he was wōt to say geue vs now the Master Lib. 4. contra Martionē This olde writer in his 4. booke against Martion the heritike saith thus Iesus made the bread which he toke and distributed to his disciples his body saiyng This is my body that is to say saieth Tertullian a figure of my bodie In this place it is plaine that after Tertullians exposition Christ ment not by calling the bread his body and the wine his bloude that either the bread was his natural bodie or the wine his naturall bloude but he called them his bodye and his bloud because he would institute them to be vnto vs Sacramentes that is holie tokens and signes of his bodie and of his bloud that by them remembringe and firmelie beleuing the benefites procured to vs by his body whiche was torne and crucified for vs and of hys bloude whiche was shedde for vs vpon the crosse and soe with thankes receiuinge these holye sacramentes according to Christes institution myghte by the same be spirituallie noryshed and fedde to thencrease of all Godlines in vs here in oure pylgremage and iorney wherin we walke vnto euerlasting life This was vndoubtedlie Christe our Sauiours mynde and this is Tertullians exposition The wranglynge that the papistes doe make to elude this saiynge of Tertullian is so far out of all frame that it euen wearieth me to thinke on it Vuinch in his āsuuer to the 161. obiect Tertullyan writeth here saye they as none hath done hitherto before him This saiyng is to to manyfest false S. Augustine and other olde awthors likwise doo call the Sacrament a figure off Christs bodye And wher they saie that Tertullian wrott this whē he was in an heat off disputation with an heretike coueting by al meanes to ouercō his aduersarye As who saye he wolde not take hede what he dyd saye ād specialy what he wold write in so high a matter so that he might haue the better hand off his aduersarie Ys this credible to be trewe in any godly wyseman Howe much lesse then is it worthy to be thowght or credited in a man off so great wyt lernyng and excellency as Tertullian is worthely esteamed euer to haue bene Lykwise this author in his first booke against the the same heretike Martion writeth thus God dyd not reiect bread which is his creature for by it he hath made a representation off his bodye Nowe I prai you what is this to say that Christ hath made a representation by breade of his bodye but that Christ hath Lib. 1. cōtra Mar. instituted and ordeined bred to be a sacrament for to represent vnto vs his bodye Nowe whether the representation of one thinge by another requireth the corporall presence of the thinge which is so represented or no euery man that hath vnderstanding is hable in this pointe the matter is so cleare of it lsefe to be a sufficient iudge The second doctor and wryter off the latine churche whose saiynges I promised to set furth S. August is S. Augustine off whose lernyng and estimation I neede not to speake for all the churche of Christ both hath and euer hath had hym for a man of moost singular learning witte and dilygence both in setting fourth the true doctrine of Christes religion and also in the defense off the same againste heretikes This awthor as he hath written most plenteously in other matters off our faith so like wise in this argument he hathe written at large in manye off his workes so plainli against this error of transubstantiation that the papistsloue least to heare of him off all other writers partly for his authoritye and partly because he openeth the matter more fully then any one other doth Therfore I will reherse moe place off him then heretofore I haue done of the other And firste what can be more playne then that whiche he writeth vppon the 89. psalme speking of the sacramente of the Lordes bodye and bloud and rehersing as yt were Christes wordes to his disciples affter this maner Yt is not this bodie which ye doo see that ye shal eate neither shall ve drincke this bloud which the Soudiares that Crucefye me schall spille or shedde I doe commende vnto you a misterie or a sacramente whiche spiritually vnderstanded shall geue you life Nowe if Christ hadde no moe naturall and corporall bodies but that one whiche they then presentlie boeth harde and saw And none other naturall bloude but that whiche was in the same bodie and the whiche the souldiers cruellye did after shedde vppon the Crosse and neither this bodie nor this bloude was by this declaration of S. Augustine either to be eaten or dronken but the misterie therof spirituallye to be understanded Then I conclude if this saiyng and exposition of S. Augustine be trwe that the misterie whiche the disciples shoulde eate was not the natural bodie of Christe but a misteri of the same spirituallye to be vnderstanded For as S. Augustine saieth in his 20. booke contra faustum Cap. 21 Christes fleashe and bloude was in the olde testament promised by similitudes and signes of their sacrefyces and was exhibited in deede and in trueth vpon the crosse but the same is celebrated by a sacrament of remembrance vpon the aulter And in his booke de fide ad Petrum Cap. 19 he saeth that in these Sacrifices meaninge of the olde lawe it is figuratiuelie signified what then was to be geuen But in this Sacrifice it is euidentlie signified what is alreadie geuen vnderstanding in the sacrifice vpon the aulter the remembraunce and thankes geuing for the fleashe whiche he offred for vs and for the bloude whyche he shedde for vs vppon the Crosse as is in the same place and euidentlye there it maie appeare Another euidente and cleare place wherein it appeareth that bythe Sacramentall breade whyche Christe called hys bodye he meante a fygure of hys bodie is vppon the thyrde Psalme Where Sancte Augustine speaketh thus in plaine tearmes Christe did admit Iudas vnto the feast in the whiche he commended to his disciples the fygure of hys bodye Thys was Christes laste supper before hys Passion Wherein he dydde ordayne the Sacrament of hys bodye as all learned menne doe agree S. Augustine also in his 23. Epistle ad Bonifacium teacheth howe Sacramentes doe beare the names of the thinges wherof they be sacraments boeth in Baptisme and in the Lordes table August Epi.

studyeng thoughe mixture be best For so one shall alleuiate the tediousnesse off the other I entend not to contend moche with thē in wordes after a reasonable accowmpte off my fayth geuen for it shall be butt in vayne They will saye as their fathers saied Ioan. 19. Whē they haue no more to saie We haue a lawe ād by our lawe he owght to dye Be ye stedfast ād vnmouable saieth saincte Paule ād agayne persistito stande fast 1. Cor. 15. 2. Tim. 3. Ioan. 15. Col. 1. And how ofte is this repeted if ye abide yf ye abide c. But we shall be called obstinate sturdie ignoraūte headye and what not So that a man hath nede of muche patience hauing to do with suche men But yow knowe how great a crime it is to separate your selfe from the communion or feloushippe of the churche and to make a schisme or diuision Anton. obiect 3. You haue ben reported to haue hated the secte of the Anabaptistes and alwaies to haue impugned the same More ouer this was the perniciouse erroure of Nouatus and of the heretikes called Cathari that they woulde not communicate with the churche I knowe that the vnitye of the churche is to be retained by al meanes and the same to be necessarye to saluation N. Ryd Ansvu. But I do not take the masse as it is at this daye for the communion of the churche but for a popisshe deuyse wherby bothe the commaundemente and institution of oure sauior Christe for the ofte frequēting of the remēbrance of his deathe is eluded and the people of god is miserablye deluded The secte of the Anabaptistes and the heresie of the Nouatians oughte of righte to be condemned for as muche as with oute anye iuste or necessarie cause they wickedlye separated them selfes from the communion of the congregation for they did not alledge that the sacramentes were vnduelye ministred but turninge awaie their eies from them selfes wher with accordinge to saincte Paules reule they oughte to examine them selfes 1. Cor. 11. and castinge theyr eyes euer vpon others either ministers or communicātes with them they alwaies reproued some thinge for the which they absteined from the communion as from an vnholie thinge H. Laty. Hilarius contra Auxent I remembre that Caluine beginneth to confute the Interim after this sorte withe this sayeng of Hilarie The name of peace is beautifull and the opinion of vnitee is fayre but who doubteth that to be the true and onlye peace of the churche whiche is Christes I woulde you hadde that litle boke there shulde you see how muche is to be geuē to vnitie Rom. 15. S. Paule when he requireth vnitee he ioyneth streyght withall Secundum Iesum Christum accordyng to Iesus Christe no further Diotrephes now of late dyd euer harpe apon vnitye vnitye Yea Syr quod I but in veritee not in poperye Better is a diuersitee then an vnitye in poperye I hadde nothinge agayne but scornefull gieres with commaundement to the Tower But admitte there be in the masse that perauenture mighte be amended or at leaste made better Anton. obiect 4. yea seing you wil haue it so admitte ther be a faulte yf yow do not consente therto why do you troble your selfe in vaine Cypr. l. ● ep 2. Au. ep 152. doo not you knowe bothe by Cyprian and Augustine that communion of sacramentes dothe not defile a man but consente of dedes Yf it wer anye one trifling ceremonie N. Ryd Ansvuer or yf it wer some one thinge of it selfe indifferēte althoughe I woulde wishe nothinge shulde be done in the churche whiche dothe not edifie the same yet for the continuance of the commen quietnes I coulde be contente to beare it But for asmuch as thinges done in the masse tende openlye to the ouerthrowe of Christes institution I iudge that by no meanes either in worde or dede I oughte to consente vnto it As for that whiche is obiected oute of the fathers I acknowledge it to be wel spokē if it be well vnderstanded But it is mente of them whiche suppose they are defiled yf anie secret vice be either in the ministers or in them that communicate with them And is not mente of them whiche doo abhorre superstition and wicked traditiōs of men and will not suffer the same to be thruste up on them selfes or vpon the churche in steade of goddes worde and the trewethe of the gospel The verye maye bones of the masse are all to gither H. Laty. detestable and therfore by no meanes to be borne withal so that of necessitye the mendinge of it is to abolisshe it for euer For yf yow take awaie oblation and adoration which do hange vpon consecratiō and transubstantiacion the most papistes of them all will not sett a button by the masse as a thinge which they esteame not but for the gaine that foloweth theron For yf the Englyshe communion whiche of late was vsed wer as gainefull to them as the masse hathe ben heretofore they woulde striue no more for their masse From thens groweth the griefe Anton. obiect 5. Consider into what daungers you caste your selfe yf you forsake the Churche and you can not but forsake it if you refuse to goo to Masse For the Masse is the sacrament off vnytie withowte the Arke ther is no saluation The Churche is the Arke and Peters shyppe Ye knowe thys saying well in oughe Aug. li. 4. de Sym. c. 10. In ep post col contra Donat. He shall not haue godde to be his father which acknowlegeth not the Churche to be his mother More ouer withoute the Church sayeth S. Augustine be the lyfe neuer so well spente it shal not enheritte the kyngdome of heauen The holie Catholique or vniuersalle Churche which is the communion of sayntes N. Ryd Ansvuer 1. Tim. 3. Apoc. 21. Ephes. 1. the howse of godde the Citee of godde the spowse of Christe the bodie of Christe the pyller and staye off the truth This Church I beleue accordinge to the Creede Thys Church I doo reuerence and honour in the Lorde But the rewle off this church is the worde off godde accordyng to which rewle we goo forward vnto lyffe And as many as walke accordyng to thys rewle I saye with S. Paule peace be apon them Gala. 6. and apon Israel which perteyneth vnto godde The guyde off this Churche is the holie ghooste The markes wherby this Churche is knowen vnto me in this darke worlde Phil. 2. and in the myddes of this Crooked and frowarde generatiō are these The syncere preachinge of goddes worde The due administration off the sacramentes Charitee and faythfull obseruynge off Ecclesiasticall discipline accordyng to the worde off godde And that Church or congregation which is garnisshed with these markes is in verie dede that heauenly Hierusalem which consisteth of those Apoc. 21. Ioan. 3. Gala. 4. that be borne frome aboue Thys is the mother of

bee but in this respecte onely that they bee deuised by menne are not able to bringe any thing to perfection but are enforced of necessitie to suffre many things out of sqware and are cōpelled somtime to wynke at the worste thinges seinge they knowe not howe to maintaine the common peace and quiet otherwise Gal. 3. 1. Cor. 3. Rom. 3. Psa. 116. Lib. 1. retr cap. 10. they do ordaine that the more part shall take place Yow know what these kindes of speaches mean I speke after the maner of men yee walke after the maner of men all men are liers And that of S Augustine if ye liue after mannes reason ye do not liue after the will of God Yf ye saie the councels haue sometimes erred Anton. obiect 10. or maie erre howe then shoulde we beleue the catholique Churche For the councels are gathered by the authoritie of the catholique churche From maie bee to bee in deede N. Rid. ansvv is no good argument but from being to maie bee no man doubteth but it is a most sure argument But now that councels haue sometime erred it is manifeste Howe manie councels were there in the east part of the worlde Socr. eccle hist. l. 2. which condemned the Nicene counceil and al those which wold not forsake the same thei called by a sclāderouse name as thei thought Homousiās Was not Athanasius Chrisostome Cyrille Eustachius men verie well learned and of godly life Socr. eccl H. l. 1. c. 24.32 Theod. l. 5. cap. 34. Obiectiō banished and cōdēned as famouse heritiques ād that by wicked coūcelles Howe many thinges are there in the Canons and constitutions of the counselles whiche the papistes them selues do much mislike But here paraduenture one man will saie vnto me We will graunt you this in prouincial councelles or councelles of some one nacion that they maie sometimes erre Forasmuche as they do not represente the vniuersall churche but it is not to be beleued that the general and full councelles haue erred at any time Here if I hadde my bookes of the counselles or rather such notes as I haue gathered out of those bookes I coulde bring somthīg which should serue for this purpose But now seing I haue them not Ansvuer I wil recite one place onely out of S. Austen which in my iudgdment maie suffise in this matter in steade of many Who knoweth not saieth he that the holie scripture is so set before vs l. 2. de bap cont don cap. 3. that it is not lawefull to doubte of it and that the letters of Bishops maye be reproued by other wiser men̄es wordes ād by coūcelles and that the coūsels thēselues which are gathered by prouīces ād coūtries dooe geue place to the authoritie of the general ād ful coūcelles ād that the former general coūcels are amēded by the latter whē as by some experience of things either that which was shut vp is opened or that whiche was hid is knowen Thus muche of Augustine But I wyl plead with our Autoniane vpō matter confessed ▪ Here with vs when as papisttie reagned I pray you howe doth that booke whiche was called the Bishoppes booke made in the time of King Henry the eighte whereof the Bishoppe of Winchester is thought to be either the first father The Bisschops booke or chiefe gatherer howe doeth it I saie sharpely reproue the florentine counceile in which was decreed the supremacie of the Bishoppe of Rome and that with the consente of the Emperoure of constantinople and of the Grecians So that in those daies oure learned aunciente fathers and Bisshoppes of Englande did not sticke to affirme that a generall counceile mighte erre But me thinketh I heare another manne despising all that I haue broughte furthe and saiynge These whiche you haue called counceiles are not worthy to be called counceiles but rather assembles and cōuēticles of heritiques I pray you syr why do you iudge them worthie of so slanderouse a name Because sayth he they decreed thinges heretical contrarie to true godlines and sounde doctrine and against the faith of christen religion The cause is waightie for the which thei ought of right so to be caled But if it be so that all counceiles oughte to be dispised whiche decree any thinge contrarie to sounde doctrine and the trew worde whiche is according to godlines forasmuche as the masse 1. Tim. 6. suche as we haue had here of late is openly against the worde of Godde forsothe it must folow of necessitie that al suche councels as haue approued such masses oughte of righte to be fledde and despised as conuenticles and assembles of menne that straie from the truth The B. of Romes authoritee Another man alledgeth vnto me the authoritie of the Bisshop of Rome withoute whiche neither can the counsels saith he be lawefully gathered neither beinge gathered determine any thing concerning religiō But this obiection is only grounded vpon the ambitoiuse and shamelesse maintenaunce of the Romishe tyrāny and vsurped dominion ouer the cleargie England abiured the popes supremacie whiche tyrānie we Englisshe men longe ago by the consent of the whole Realme haue expulsed and abiured And howe rightlie we haue done it a litle booke set furth de vtraque potestate that is of booeth the powers doeth clerelye shewe I graunt that the Romishe ambition hath gone aboute to chalenge to it selfe and to vsurpe suche a priueledge of olde time Cōc Carthag 3. But the counsell of Carthage in the yeare of our Lorde 457. did openly withstande it and also the counseil at Milcuyte in the whiche S. Augustin was present Can. 22. did prohibite anie appellations to be made to Bisshoppes beyond the sea S. Augustine saieth the good men are not to be forsaken for the euell Anton. obiect 11. Ep. 48. but the euell are to bee borne withal for the good Ye will not saie I trowe that in our congregations all be euell N. Ryd Ansvuer I speake nothing of the goodnesse or euelnesse of your congregacions but I fighte in Chrstes quarell againste the masse whiche doth vtterlye take awaie and ouerthrowe the ordinance of Christ. Let that be taken quite away and then the particion of the walle that made the striefe shal be brokē doune Nowe to the place of S. Austine for bearing with the euill for the goods sake there ought to be added other woordes whiche the same writer hath expressedly in other places That is Aug. l. 3. cont literas parm cap. 2.3 if those euell men do caste abroad no seedes of false doctrine nor lead other to destruction by their example Yt is perilouse to atempt any newe thinge in the church which lacketh example of good men Anton. obiect 12. How muche more perilouse is it to commit any act vnto the which thexample of the prophets of Christ and of thapostles are contrary But vnto this your fact in abstaining from the church by reason of the masse the

Idolatrie and sacrilege is not be done to the holie Sacramēt then also the wicked I meane the impenitent murtherer adulterer or suche like do not receiue the naturall substāce of the blissed body and bloud of Christ finallie then doth folow that Christes blissed bodie and bloud which was once onely offered and shed vpon the crosse beinge auailable for the synnes of all the worlde is offered vp no more in the natural substaunce therof neither by the prieste nor anie other thinge But here before we goe any further to searche in this matter and to wade as it were to searche and trie oute as we maie the trueth therof in the scripture it shall do well by the way to knowe whether they that thus make aunswere and solution to the former principall question doe take awaye simplye and absolutlye the presence of Christes bodie and bloud from the sacrament ordeined by Christ and duely ministred according to his holye ordinances and institution of the same Vndoutedlye they do denie that vtterly either 〈◊〉 to saie or to meane the same And therof if any 〈◊〉 doe or will doubte the bookes whiche are written alreadye in this matter of them that thus doe answeare will make the matter plaine Nowe then you will saie what kinde of presence do they graunt and what do they denie Vuhat kīde of presence is to be graunted in the lordes supper Briefelye they denie the presence of Christes bodye in the naturall substance of his humaine and assumpte nature and graunt the presence of the same by grace That is they affirme and saie that the substance of the naturall bodie and bloud of Christ is onelie remainynge in heauen and so shall be vntill the latter daie when he shal come againe in glorie accompained with the angelles of heauen Matt. 24 ▪ to iudge both the quicke and the deade And the same naturall substance of the verie bodie and bloude of Christe because it is vnited to the diuine nature in Christe the seconde person of the Trinitie therfore it hath not onelye life in it selfe but it is also able and doth Ioan. 6. geue life vnto so manie as bee or shall be partakers thereof that is that to all that doo beeleue on his Ioan. 1. name which are not born of bloud as Iohn saith or of the will of the fleshe or of the will of man but are borne of God though the selfe same substance abide still in heauen and they for the tyme of their pilgremage dwell here vpon the earth by grace I saie that is by the life mētioned in Ihon Ioan. 6. and the properties of the same meete for oure pilgremage here vpon earth the same bodie of Christe is here presente with vs Euē as for example wee saie the Sunne whiche in substaunce neuer remoueth hys place out of the heauens is yet presente here by his beames light and natural influence where it shineth vpon the earth For gods worde and his Sacraments be as it were the beames of Christ which Malach. 4 is Sol Iustiticie The Sunne of righteousenes Thus thou haste hearde of what sorte or secte soeuer thou be wherin doth stande the principall state and chiefe pointe of all the cōtrouersies whiche doe properlie perteine vnto the nature of this Sacrament As for the vse therof I graunt ther be many other thinges wherof here I haue spoken nothing And now leste thou iustly maist complaine and saie that I haue in openinge of this matter doone nothing els but digged a pitte and haue not shutt it vp againe or broken a gap and haue not made it vp or opened the booke and haue not closed it againe or elles to call me what thou listest as Newtrall Dissembler or what soeuer els thy luste and learning shall serue thee to name me worse Therfore here nowe I will by Goddes grace not onlye shortly but also so clearely and plainelie as I can make the nowe to knowe whether of the foresaide two aunsweres to the former principall state and chief pointe doth like me beste Yea and also I will holde all those accursed whiche in this matter that nowe soe troubleth the churche of Christe haue of God receiued the Keye of knowledge and yet goe about to shutte vp the doores so that they them selues will not entre in nor suffre other that woulde And as for myne owne parte I considre boeth of late what charge and cure of soule hath been cōmitted to me wherof God knoweth howe soone I shall be called to geue an accoumpt and also nowe in thys worlde what peryll and daunger of the lawes concerning my life I am now in at this presente time what folye were it then for me nowe to dissemble with God of whome assuredlye I loke and hope by Christ to haue euerlasting life Seing that suche charge and daunger both before God and manne do compasse me in rounde aboute on euery side therfore God willing I will franklye and freelye vtter my minde And thoughe my bodie be captiue yet my tounge and my penne as longe as I maie shall freelye set furth that whiche vndoubtedlye I am perswaded to bee the trueth of Gods worde And yet I will doe it vnder this protestation call me a protestante who liste A protestation I doe not passe therof My protestation shall be this that my minde is ād euer shal be God willing to set furth syncerlye the true sense and meaning to the beste of myne vnderstanding of Gods most holye worde and not to decline from the same either for feare of worldly danger or els for hope of gaine I do protest also dew obedience and submission of my iudgment in this my writing and in all other mine affaires vnto those of Christes churche whiche bee truelye learned in Gods holye worde gathered in Christes name and guided by his spirite An ansvvere to the cheefe question ▪ After this protestation I doe plainelye affirme and saie that the seconde aunsweare made to the chiefe question and principal pointe I am perswaded to be the verye true meaning and sense of Gods holie worde That is that the natural substaunce of breade and wine is the true materiall substaunce of the holie sacramente of the blissed bodie and bloude of oure sauioure Christe And the places of scripture wherupon this my faithe is grownded be theis both concernyng the Sacrament of the bodye and also of the bloud Fyrst lett vs repete the begynning of the institution of the Lordes supper wherin all the three Euāgelistes and S. Paule almost in wordes do agree sayng that Ihesus tooke bread gaue thankes brake and gaue it to the Disciples sayng take eate This is my bodye Christe calleth verie breade his bodie Here it appereth plainlye that Christ calleth verye bread his bodye For that which he tooke was very bread in this all mē doo agre and that which he tooke after he had gyuen thankes he brake and that which he tooke and brake he gaue it