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book_n church_n scripture_n write_v 5,125 5 5.8373 4 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A09739 Ane answer made the fourth day of Septembre a thousand fyue hundreth syxtie [and] one, by maister Theodore de Besza minister of the holie Euangile, in the presence of the quene mother, the king and quene of Nauarre, the princes of the blood royall, and of the priuie counseil, vnto that whiche the cardinall of Lorraine had replied against that whiche was propounded in the first iourney of their talking together, by the said de Besza in the name of the reformed churches. Together with an other short answer made by the said de Besza the 26 day of the said moneth vnto certein articles of replie set forth by the said cardinall Bèze, Théodore de, 1519-1605.; Baron, John. 1562 (1562) STC 2000; ESTC S119255 24,857 90

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micheas_n yea_o &_o the_o son_n of_o god_n himself_o and_o after_o he_o the_o apostle_n but_o the_o assembly_n of_o the_o prelate_n of_o israel_n if_o hereunto_o it_o be_v answer_v that_o these_o thing_n happen_v in_o the_o time_n of_o the_o old_a testament_n i_o answer_v that_o it_o be_v not_o enough_o speak_v nor_o direct_o answer_v for_o the_o conclusion_n will_v alwey_n be_v ferme_fw-fr and_o sure_a that_o the_o assembly_n of_o prelate_n of_o the_o church_n how_o general_a soever_o that_o it_o be_v have_v often_o time_n be_v govern_v by_o the_o spirit_n of_o error_n rather_o than_o by_o the_o holy_a ghost_n second_o if_o we_o come_v to_o the_o new_a testament_n s._n paul_n ha_v not_o he_o express_o warn_v the_o ephesiens_n in_o y_o e_o name_n of_o all_o the_o church_n 29._o that_o there_o shall_v wolf_n come_v out_o from_o amongst_o the_o mid_n of_o the_o pastor_n &_o that_o the_o son_n of_o perdition_n shall_v sit_v in_o the_o temple_n of_o god_n ▪_o and_o in_o very_a deed_n in_o 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receive_v in_o the_o church_n everywhere_o &_o of_o all_o man_n ●1_n but_o who_o may_v assure_v we_o of_o these_o three_o point_n certain_o no_v man_n as_o i_o suppose_v for_o the_o diversity_n be_v infinite_a y_o it_o be_v find_v in_o the_o book_n of_o the_o ancient_n yea_o and_o that_o in_o the_o article_n of_o the_o faith_n furthermore_o if_o we_o must_v come_v unto_o these_o word_n always_o and_o of_o all_o at_o what_o time_n shall_v we_o begin_v except_o at_o the_o apostolical_a church_n and_o who_o be_v the_o first_o in_o y_fw-mi e_fw-it count_v but_o the_o apostle_n of_o who_o you_o e_o history_n be_v faithful_o write_v by_o saint_n luke_n &_o that_o which_o may_v be_v know_v by_o their_o own_o write_n so_o therefore_o my_o lord_n to_o conclude_v forasmuch_o as_o all_o truth_n come_v of_o god_n who_o ha_v take_v for_o his_o trushman_n in_o that_o that_o concern_v our_o salvation_n the_o prophet_n and_o apostle_n we_o return_v always_o unto_o this_o foundation_n of_o the_o scripture_n and_o yet_o will_v we_o receive_v the_o advice_n of_o council_n and_o of_o father_n but_o that_o shall_v be_v so_o far_o as_o they_o confirm_v their_o say_n by_o the_o evident_a witnessinge_n of_o the_o scripture_n the_o which_o as_o treulie_o say_v saint_n augustine_n in_o his_o book_n of_o christian_a doctrine_n be_v so_o temper_v with_o the_o holy_a spirit_n y_z t_z that_o which_o be_v dark_o speak_v in_o one_o place_n be_v most_o clearelie_o speak_v in_o a_o other_o place_n with_o diverse_a other_o mean_n to_o understand_v well_o the_o scripture_n which_o be_v contain_v in_o y_z e_o say_v book_n of_o saint_n augustine_n and_o of_o othere_n which_o have_v entreat_v of_o this_o matter_n and_o there_o remain_v as_o yet_o one_o difficulty_n to_o be_v resolve_v ●1_n which_o lie_v in_o this_o that_o many_o have_v think_v that_o the_o will_n of_o god_n touch_v all_o y_o t_o be_v requisite_a unto_o our_o salvation_n be_v not_o full_o write_v by_o the_o evangelist_n &_o apostle_n but_o if_o this_o may_v take_v place_n i_o pray_v you_o my_o lord_n what_o a_o door_n shall_v there_o be_v open_v to_o set_v forth_o all_o manner_n of_o dream_n and_o ravinge_n that_o man_n listen_v and_o in_o very_a deed_n we_o see_v that_o this_o ha_v be_v the_o passage_n by_o which_o satan_n ha_v enter_v in_o to_o waste_v the_o vine_n yard_n of_o the_o lord_n and_o yet_o deny_v we_o not_o ●1_n but_z y_z t_z before_o moses_n time_n god_n govern_v his_o church_n by_o vision_n and_o revelation_n and_o that_o the_o apostle_n first_o plant_v the_o church_n with_o a_o livelie_a voice_n before_o that_o their_o doctrine_n be_v write_v but_o where_o fore_n be_v it_o y_z t_z while_n ●1_n man_n grow_v great_a in_o malice_n and_o mo_z in_o nombre_fw-fr &_o contrary_a wise_n their_o lyve_n grow_v short_a that_o the_o lord_n ha_v will_v that_o this_o doctrine_n shall_v be_v enregister_v in_o a_o common_a language_n to_o be_v understand_v of_o all_o haeth_n this_o be_v to_o encountre_n they_o that_o decore_v and_o deck_v their_o ravinge_n and_o dream_n with_o y_z e_z title_n of_o tradition_n revelation_n or_o of_o custom_n now_o if_o this_o doctrine_n be_v not_o write_v but_o in_o part_n wherefore_o shall_v this_o remedy_n serve_v then_o 31._o sure_o saint_n john_n speak_v not_o so_o of_o the_o scripture_n where_o he_o say_v that_o the_o thing_n y_fw-fr t_z he_o ha_v write_v be_v write_v to_o the_o end_n that_o in_o beleve_v that_o jesus_n be_v the_o christ_n the_o son_n of_o god_n you_o may_v have_v life_n the_o which_o thing_n shall_v be_v false_a if_o there_o shall_v be_v leave_v out_o any_o doctrine_n necessary_a unto_o salvation_n saint_n paul_n also_o declare_v the_o use_n of_o the_o scripture_n where_o he_o will_v teach_v all_o the_o minister_n of_o the_o church_n of_o god_n in_o the_o personne_fw-fr of_o his_o faithful_a disciple_n timothee_n 1●_n have_v not_o say_v that_o it_o make_v the_o man_n of_o god_n that_o be_v to_o say_v the_o minister_n of_o the_o word_n of_o god_n or_o in_o especial_a if_o you_o listen_v every_o faithful_a man_n to_o be_v in_o all_o point_n perfyte_n if_o it_o have_v be_v needful_a to_o have_v add_v any_o thing_n that_o as_o yet_o be_v not_o write_v and_o yet_o we_o doubt_v not_o but_o alwey_v there_o may_v have_v be_v of_o the_o apostle_n tradition_n unwritten_a but_o what_o be_v they_o pertain_v unto_o order_fw-fr and_z to_z policy_n but_o because_o this_o name_n ha_v be_v abuse_v a_o long_a time_n it_o behove_v to_o show_v which_o be_v y_z e_z apostolical_a tradition_n the_o w_n c_o will_v not_o be_v hard_a to_o be_v do_v if_o two_o point_n be_v propound_v whereby_o they_o may_v be_v judge_v 1●_n that_o be_v to_o say_v if_o they_o be_v comformable_a to_o the_o doctrine_n and_o mete_v to_o edification_n for_o it_o be_v a_o thing_n most_o assure_v that_o the_o apostle_n never_o appoint_v any_o manner_n of_o do_v that_o may_v be_v direct_o or_o undirect_o contrary_a to_o the_o doctrine_n which_o they_o teach_v nor_o also_o that_o may_v turn_v away_o man_n how_o little_a soever_o it_o be_v frone_v the_o spiritual_a service_n see_v all_o their_o write_n bear_v witness_v thereof_o when_o therefore_o this_o cruel_a be_v keep_v then_o shall_v it_o be_v easy_a to_o discern_v the_o doctrine_n from_o the_o tradition_n and_o the_o false_a tradition_n from_o y_z e_z right_a tradition_n and_o to_o this_o may_v be_v add_v that_o that_o which_o the_o apostle_n themselves_o have_v do_v in_o this_o behalf_n be_v not_o alwey_n perpetual_a not_o but_o that_o they_o be_v witness_n w_o tout_fw-fr reproach_n but_o for_o this_o cause_n that_o according_a to_o the_o reule_fw-fr of_o charity_n do_v they_o bear_v some_o thing_n with_o the_o infirmity_n of_o the_o jew_n 29._o and_o so_o must_v be_v judge_v of_o that_o which_o they_o ordain_v of_o thing_n strangle_v &_o to_o eat_v no_o blood_n and_o of_o that_o which_o s._n paul_n ha_v teach_v and_o practise_v in_o timothee_n and_o on_o his_o personne_fw-fr the_o w_n c_o thing_n now_o may_v have_v no_o place_n except_z in_z following_z y_z e_z general_a reule_fw-fr to_o commodate_v ourselves_o to_o our_o neighbour_n in_o thing_n indifferent_a 29._o &_o such_o thing_n may_v also_o be_v gather_v of_o other_o manner_n of_o do_n which_o they_o have_v appropry_v unto_o their_o time_n as_o where_o it_o be_v speak_v of_o kiss_v &_o to_o have_v their_o head_n uncover_v or_o bare_a in_o sign_n of_o authority_n 11_o the_o which_o at_o this_o day_n be_v contrary_a manner_n of_o do_n or_o fashion_n amongst_o many_o nation_n amongst_o who_o it_o shall_v be_v find_v very_o strange_a y_o it_o man_n shall_v kiss_v one_o a_o other_o or_o that_o one_o man_n shall_v kiss_v a_o other_o man_n wife_n as_o also_o at_o this_o time_n to_o speak_v bear_v head_v be_v a_o sign_n of_o inferrior_n or_o low_a condition_n all_o these_o thing_n therefore_o oght_v to_o be_v consider_v before_o y_o t_o we_o shall_v ground_n a_o doctrine_n as_o apostolical_a for_o to_o abuse_v the_o 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of_o which_o god_n himself_o be_v author_n it_o be_v a_o long_a time_n since_o that_o saint_n augustine_n complain_v hereof_o when_o he_o write_v to_o januarius_n but_o there_o be_v no_o doubt_n if_o he_o have_v be_v in_o the_o like_a time_n as_o we_o be_v he_o will_v have_v be_v more_o astonish_v at_o they_o in_o a_o some_o therefore_o we_o do_v require_v that_o the_o scripture_n which_o be_v clear_a in_o this_o behalf_n may_v discern_v betwixt_o the_o tradition_n that_o be_v good_a &_o they_o y_o it_o be_v evil_a betwixt_o they_o that_o be_v holy_a and_o they_o that_o be_v profaine_o betwixt_o they_o that_o be_v profitable_a and_o they_o that_o be_v noisome_a and_o betwixt_o they_o that_o be_v needful_a
interteyn_v from_o good_a to_o better_v or_o that_o he_o call_v of_o new_a unto_o his_o knowledge_n for_o in_o some_o point_v the_o lord_n use_v his_o just_a vengeance_n he_o seem_v altogether_o to_o root_v up_o till_o y_a to_o he_o leave_v not_o one_o trase_n of_o y_fw-fr e_o church_n as_o it_o be_v come_v to_o pass_v in_o y_fw-fr e_fw-la contrie_n of_o the_o barbariens_n &_o in_o the_o orient_a and_o in_o other_o country_n he_o ha_v leave_v as_o yet_o some_o trace_n of_o y_fw-fr e_o church_n as_o we_o see_v in_o the_o church_n of_o grecia_n and_o yet_o more_o near_o unto_o us._n on_o the_o other_o part_n the_o lord_n between_o hand_n some_o tymer_n out_o of_o this_o personal_a succession_n of_o pa●●tours_n as_o it_o chance_v in_o antioch_n i●_n the_o time_n of_o samosatenus_fw-la and_o in_o alexandrie_n the_o time_n of_o the_o banishe●ment_n of_o athanasius_n &_o in_o many_o other_o church_n in_o the_o time_n that_o heresye_n have_v there_o furious_a rage_n &_o special_o without_o seek_v thing_n any_o far_o at_o this_o time_n there_o ha_v be_v interruption_n in_o the_o personalle_a succession_n of_o the_o romishe_a seat_n at_o least_o in_o y_z e_z time_n that_o honorius_n the_o first_o hold_v the_o seat_n about_o the_o year_n syx_n hundred_v three_o &_o twenty_o part_n be_v condemn_v for_o the_o execrable_a heresy_n of_o eut●ches_n about_o the_o year_n syx_n hundred_o &_o four_o score_n and_o in_o the_o time_n of_o pope_n john_n the_o twenty_o and_o two_o be_v condemn_v for_o a_o heretic_n about_o the_o year_n a_o thousand_o three_o hundred_o thirty_o &_o two_o except_o they_o will_v say_v that_o notable_a heretic_n be_v the_o head_n of_o the_o church_n beside_o this_o w_n c_o happen_v in_o the_o time_n of_o the_o she_o pope_n johan_o about_o the_o year_n eight_o hundred_o fifty_o and_o four_o and_o during_o so_o many_o schism_n of_o contrary_a pope_n as_o be_v read_v in_o history_n by_o these_o reason_n i_o conclude_v y_z t_z with_z out_o stayeng_v at_o any_o personal_a succession_n for_o to_o know_v the_o church_n well_o we_o must_v alweye_n come_v to_o the_o purite_n of_o the_o doctrine_n 〈…〉_o and_o to_o the_o sincere_a administration_n of_o the_o sacrament_n in_o such_o sort_n that_o they_o which_o oght_v to_o be_v count_v the_o right_a successor_n of_o the_o apostle_n the_o which_o be_v lawful_o call_v build_v upon_o their_o foundation_n whether_o there_o be_v a_o continual_a succession_n of_o person_n or_o that_o that_o succession_n some_o time_n be_v interrupt_v yea_o even_o of_o they_o y_z e_z first_z preach_v the_o euangile_n in_o any_o place_n like_a as_o contrarywyse_o they_o that_o preach_v not_o at_o all_o or_o that_o in_o stead_n of_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o apostle_n preach_v their_o own_o doctrine_n although_o they_o allege_v a_o thousand_o predecessor_n follow_v one_o a_o other_o they_o oght_v not_o to_o be_v hear_v as_o pastor_n but_o to_o be_v flee_v from_o as_o wolf_n by_o the_o express_v commandment_n of_o jesus_n christ_n 7._o and_o of_o his_o apostle_n but_o some_o may_v say_v be_v this_o say_v because_o y_z t_o it_o be_v lawful_a to_o every_o body_n to_o preach_v the_o euangile_n and_o to_o minister_v the_o sacrament_n 7._o no_o sure_o for_o it_o behove_v you_o to_o every_o thing_n be_v do_v by_o good_a order_fw-fr in_o the_o house_n of_o god_n as_o the_o apostle_n say_v who_o be_v then_o the_o right_a pastor_n ●_o they_o which_o be_v lawful_o call_v there_o rest_v then_o to_o know_v what_o be_v lawful_a vocation_n and_o to_o understand_v this_o point_n we_o say_v that_o there_o be_v a_o manner_n of_o ordinary_a vocation_n &_o a_o other_o extraordinary_a ●_o that_o be_v the_o ordinary_a vocation_n in_o the_o which_o the_o order_fw-fr be_v keep_v that_o god_n ha_v establish_v in_o the_o church_n and_o in_o this_o order_fw-fr first_fw-mi of_o all_o there_o be_v examination_n of_o the_o doctrine_n &_o of_o the_o life_n then_o after_o there_o be_v lawful_a election_n &_o finaly_a there_o be_v imposition_n of_o hand_n ●_o these_o may_v you_o see_v in_o many_o place_n of_o the_o scripture_n to_o be_v put_v and_o conjoin_v together_o as_o in_o the_o election_n of_o saint_n mathias_n and_o of_o the_o seven_o deacons_n in_o the_o act_n of_o the_o apostle_n and_o also_o in_o that_o which_o be_v write_v in_o s._n paul_n epistle_n unto_o timothee_n and_o to_o tite_n 5.6_o this_o now_o be_v the_o ordanarie_n vocation_n whereby_o it_o may_v be_v easy_o consider_v what_o be_v the_o extraordinary_a vocation_n 5.6_o in_o the_o which_o notwithstanding_o y_fw-mi t_o one_o of_o these_o two_o thing_n or_o two_o of_o they_o yea_o or_o all_o the_o three_o be_v want_v yet_o be_v it_o lawful_a by_o the_o authority_n of_o god_n that_o our_o lord_n ha_v often_o time_n use_v such_o extraordinary_a vocation_n it_o appear_v through_o out_o the_o scripture_n 5.6_o for_o who_o lay_v hand_n upon_o moses_n that_o he_o may_v consecrate_v aaron_n and_o who_o anoint_v in_o the_o degree_n of_o a_o prophet_n isaie_v daniel_n amos_n and_o many_o other_o and_o when_o come_v that_o to_o pass_v then_o as_o they_o that_o have_v the_o order_fw-fr in_o their_o hand_n abuse_v the_o same_o 5.6_o then_o say_v i_o it_o behove_v that_o god_n shall_v extraordinare_o put_v hand_n to_o his_o work_n not_o for_o to_o bring_v confusion_n into_o his_o house_n but_o to_o correct_v they_o which_o under_o the_o shadow_n of_o ordinary_a succession_n have_v have_v overturn_v and_o pervert_v all_o and_o that_o it_o be_v so_o i_o refer_v i_o to_o the_o write_n of_o the_o prophets_n w_n c_o special_o speak_v against_o the_o priest_n but_o if_o herein_o it_o be_v reply_v y_o it_o such_o person_n nevertheless_o have_v have_v miraculous_o &_o from_o heaven_n a_o outward_a witness_v of_o their_o call_n lie_n i_o answer_v that_o this_o be_v very_o true_a in_o some_o but_o not_o in_o all_o except_o that_o you_o will_v divine_a that_o to_o be_v which_o in_o no_o wise_n be_v evident_a by_o any_o witness_n yea_o i_o can_v not_o well_o tell_v if_o there_o be_v many_o of_o the_o true_a prophet_n of_o the_o race_n of_o aaron_n who_o have_v have_v the_o imposition_n or_o lay_v on_o of_o hand_n after_o the_o ordinary_a manner_n but_o if_o they_o will_v allege_v that_o the_o fore_n say_v prophet_n be_v content_a to_o rebuke_v and_o to_o reprove_v without_o have_v any_o thing_n to_o do_v with_o the_o sacrifice_n first_o of_o all_o i_o answer_v that_o that_o be_v not_o true_a every_o where_n lie_n for_o samuel_n w_n c_o be_v not_o of_o the_o race_n of_o aaron_n but_o only_o of_o chore_n do_v sacrifice_n in_o mispa_n as_o it_o be_v write_v in_o the_o first_o book_n of_o samuel_n in_o the_o seven_o chaptre_n 1_o and_o elie_n the_o galaadite_n do_v sacrifice_n in_o carmell_n as_o it_o be_v write_v in_o the_o first_o book_n of_o king_n y_o e_o eightene_fw-fr chaptre_n second_o it_o be_v no_o marvel_n if_o the_o prophet_n in_o that_o time_n stretch_v not_o out_o their_o comissionn_n extraordinary_a so_o far_o as_o 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afore_o speak_v that_o we_o do_v not_o derogate_v in_o any_o point_n the_o preciouse_a and_o high_a title_n the_o which_o the_o holy_a ghost_n attribute_v unto_o it_o but_o we_o say_v that_o it_o be_v so_o the_o body_n of_o our_o lord_n that_o in_o a_o part_n it_o be_v in_o their_o pilgrimage_n 〈◊〉_d await_v for_o the_o full_a enjoyeng_v of_o their_o head_n it_o be_v the_o house_n of_o god_n but_o that_o which_o be_v yet_o a_o building_n and_o grow_v day_n by_o day_n and_o that_o it_o be_v govern_v by_o the_o spirit_n of_o god_n 5._o but_o as_o yet_o fight_v against_o the_o flesh_n it_o be_v purify_v but_o in_o such_o sort_n as_o to_o be_v bring_v by_o little_a and_o little_a unto_o this_o perfection_n of_o