the groūd of our fayth that is the true ground therof because our fayth cannot well nor must not be considered but in regard of men seeing that our fayth cannot be found but in men only if therfore in regard of men the Church is the gound of truth it is also most truly and necessarily the ground of our fayth 20. Furthermore that the ancient Church of the holy Fathers did cōstantly hold the preaching and authority of the Catholike Church to be the ground of our fayth those excellent words of S. Augustine do manifestly declare when he writeth thus disputing against the Manichees I sayth he would not belieue the Ghospell but that the authority of the Catholike Church moued me therunto this sētēce of S. Augustine vexeth our Aduersaries very much Caluin goeth about to perswade the ignorāt people that S. Augustin speaketh of himselfe as yet remayning a Manichean heretike and not of himselfe as being conuerted and made a Catholike But this is a ridiculous euasion for the words which follow a litle after do shew that this is a false interpretation of Caluin If thou doest hold thy selfe to the Ghospell S. Augustine soeaketh vnto a Manichean heretike I would hold my selfe to those by whose commandment I belieued the Ghospell He speaketh therfore of himselfe as now being a Catholike and after a few words VVhose authority sayth he being infringed weakned I could not now euen belieue the Ghospel it selfe Where he sheweth plainly that our fayth doth so depend of the authority of the Church that it being weakned or taken away it could not remayne or continue by any fayth of the Gospell Wherby it is manifest that it is false which Iunius writeth that S. Augustine did only speake of the accidentary and not of the necessary cause 21. Others say that S. Augustine did speake of this or that booke of the Gospell and not of the whole Ghospell in generall But the very words of S. Augustine doe teach the contrary because he speaketh euery where of the Gospell it selfe in generall Moreouer one and the same reason is of one booke of the Ghospell and of all the rest as concerning fayth 22. Others lastly do answere that S. Augustine did not speake of the Church of his tyme but of the primitiue Church wherin were the Apostles who approued the Ghospells But this solution is also easily refuted out of the words next following to whom faith S. Augustin I haue obeied saying Belieue the Gospell why should I not obey them then saying vnto me Doe not belieue Manicheus But it is manifest that the primitiue Church spake nothing of Manicheus but that Church only which was in S. Augustines tyme sayd vnto him doe not belieue Manicheus For Manicheus liued many yeares after the primitiue Church yea euen after S. Cyprian that is to say almost three hundred yeares after Christ as the same S. Augustine testifyeth and it is otherwise sufficiently well knowen that the Manichean heresy was vnknowne in the world before the yeare 277. See Baronius in his 2. Tom. in the yeare 277. in the 2. number and others following CHAP. VI. The arguments of our Aduersaries are confuted NOvv it remayneth we answere to the arguments of our Aduersaries for by our answers the difficulty of this whole controuersy wil be more perspicuously resolued Their first argument is if the authority of the Church were the ground of fayth then it would follow that our faith relied vpon men and not vpon God for the Church consisteth of men Our Aduersaries do often repeate and inculcat this argument vnto vs. I answere that the same argument if it were any thing worth would also proue that we should not belieue Scriptures because al those who wrot the books of the Bibles were also men but as we do belieue their writinges not because they were men but because they had a certaine peculiar assi◅āce of the holy Ghost who did so gouerne and direct the that they could not erre so in like manner we belieue the Church and make it the ground of our fayth not as it consisteth of men but as it hath a speciall and continuall assistance of the holy Ghost by whome she is continually gouerned and directed wherby it commeth to passe that she can neuer erre as we haue proued a little before 2. Wherefore to make the Church the ground of our fayth is nothing els then to make the holy Ghost and Christ himselfe the ground therof For it is he who speaketh vnto vs by the mouth of the Church according to that saying of S. Paul Seeke you an experiment of him that speaketh in me Christ And in another place speaking of his own doctrine he sayth therfore he that despiseth these things despiseth not man but God who also hath giuē his holy spirit in vs. But our Aduersaries do thinke speak too basely of the Church as though it consisted of men only as the Churches of Insidells and Heretikes seeing that the chiefe part of the true Church of Christ is the holy Ghost who is as it were the soule and spirit of the Church 3. But neither is this to make the Scripture or the holy Ghost subiect inferito our men as our Aduersarise are wōr to cauil but ōly to shew that the holy Ghost is euery where conformable to himselfe that in all things he neuer differeth or disgreeth frō himselfe Whether he speake vnto vs by the holy Scripture or by the mouth of the Church as Caluin acknowledgeth disputing against the Anabaptists and Libertines who by such an argument went about to reiect the holy Scriptures to wit least the holy Ghost might be made subiect and inferiour vnto them 4. The second argument is that Christians may and ought to iudge and examine all things as the Apostle sayth therefore the spirit of euery Christian ought to be the groūd of al things I answere that by the same argumēt the Anabaptists Libertines reiected all the Scriptures that they might only retaine the spirit as witnesseth Caluin but badly for euen as Christians must discerne and iudge all things so must they also obserue the rule and method in iudging which the Scripture doth prescribe vnto them and which himselfe appointed but this rule is not euery ones priuate spirit but the spirit of the whole Church For it is altogeather necessary that the rule of fayth be most certayne free from all errors as the spirit of the whole Church is and not that of euery priuate man Hereupon sayth S. Iohn He which knoweth God heareth vs he who is not of God doth not heare vs in this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error We must therfore iudge of euery man by that they eyther heare or do not heare the Church c because they either agree or disagree frō the spirit of the Catholike Church 5. The third argument is that Catholikes proue the Church and
approue all the Canonicall bookes of the new testament For if they had donne so there had remayned no doubt of many of them for many ages after the death of the Apostles euen among Catholike good men as we haue noted before But many yeares after the Apostles tyme by the generall Councells and Decrees of the Church some bookes were approued wherof there was before some doubt 7. Yea more then six hundred yeares after Christ there were many Catholikes who did not receyue the authority of the Apocalyps as appeareth out of the fourth Toletane Councell 8. And that which is more before the Councell of Trent the were many Catholikes who thought that it was lawfull for them to doubt of all the bookes of the new Testament the which in tymes past S Hierome seemed to iudge as doubtfull as are the Epistles of S. Iames the second of S. Peter the second and third of S. Iohn the Epistles of S. Iude the Epistles to the Hebrewes and the Apocalyps And if it had not byn for the Councell of TreÌ„t or some other new Decree of the Church none would as yet condemne them as Heretikes who called those bookes in question 9. By that which hath byn sayd it appeareth manifestly that the Canonicall Scriptures receiue their strength and authority not from the approbation of the primitiue Church but rather from the approbation of the Church succeeding yea euen of this present Church to wit of the Councell of Trent 10. Lastly albeit the present Church should not haue the authority of approuing Scriptures as these men say yet notwithstanding for three other reasons the authority testimony of this present Church is necessary First because we know not certainly what bookes the primitiue Church hath eyther written or not written approued or reiected but by the testimony of the present Church Secondly neyther do we know whether those bookes came vncorrupted vnto vs or noe but by the same testimony Thirdly because we cannot otherwise know which is the true sense of those bookes CHAP. VIII The Argument of our Aduersaryes are confuted THE first argument of our Aduersaries is The Church is grounded vpon the word of God and by the word also of God it is engendred nourished and gouerned and it is subiect to the word of God as to the words of her spouse I answere our Aduersaries do in a manner coÌ„found the writteÌ„ word of God with the word of God in generall the which they should not doe for ther are three sorts of the word of God to wit that which is belieued preached and written The belieued word is in the hart of the Church that which is preached is in her mouth and that which is written is in her bookes Of the belieued and preached word the Apostle sayth the word is in thy mouth and in thy hart this is the word of fayth which we preach We confesse that in the belieued and preached word the Church is founded because by the same it is ingendred nourished and gouerned and that vnto this word it is subiect and obedient as vnto the Words of her spouse For indeed this kind of word is necessary for the Church For with our hart sayth the Apostle we belieue vnto Iustice but with the mouth confession is made to saluation And againe How shall they heare without a preacher 2. But the nature of the written word is farre different for this is neyther altogeather necessary for the Church seeing that the Church was without it more then two thousand yeares neyther can the written word be profitable to the Church vnlesse it be also rightly preached and belieued For what doth it profit a man to haue the Bible vnlesse he rightly belieue and vnderstand it 3. But the Scripture whereof we now dispute doth only conteyne written word but the belieued and preached word are coÌ„teined in the visibe Church as the necessary and essentiall parts therof seing the one is as it were the life in the hart of the Church the other as it were the speach in her mouth neyther can they euer be separated from her according to that saying and promise of God The words which I haue put in thy month shall not depart from thy mouth nor from the mouth of thy seede nor from the mouth of thy seedes seede from hence forth for euermore 4. Wherefore this argument doth proue the quite coÌ„trary for seeing that the written word receiueth it proâ—… and authority from the rightly belieued and preached word which are the partes of the Church it is necessary that the written word receiue that authority and â—…ity from the Church as that wherin only the word rightly preached and belieued is to be found 5. The second argument If the Church should teach any thing contrary to the Scriptures we were not to belieue the Church Therefore the Scripture doth not receâ—…ue that authority from the Church but rather the Church from the Scripture I answere that in the same maÌ„ner it may be said that if the Scripture should conteine any thing against truth we should not also belieue it if the holy Ghost should vtter and speake any ly we should not belieue him But these conditions are indeed impossible and blasphemous against God wherefore they are not only to be admitted but not euen to be proposed of Christians For it is impossible that the Church should teach any thing contrary to the Scriptures for then the holy Ghost should lye because he should teach one thing by the Church and the contrary by the Scriptures 6. The third argument if the Scripture receiue that authority from the Church then the Church should be aboue the Scripture which seemeth to be very absurd 〈◊〉 That the Church is aboue the Scripture may be vnderstood two wayes First because the Church exceedeth the Scripture in dignity and excellency and in this sense without all doubt the Church is aboue the Scripture for the Scripture is made for the Church and not contrarywise All things sayth the Apostles are done for you Christ dyed for the Church and not for the Scriptures the Church belieueth hopeth loueth and praysed God but the Scripture doth none of these The Church shall reigne and liue euerlastingly with Christ in heauen the Scripture shall perish after the day of Iudgement Lastly the Church conteineth in it the word of God rightly belieued preached and the holy Ghost it selfe all which do farre exceede the written word in excellency and dignity 7. Secondly it may be vnderstood that the Church is aboue the Scripture 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 she may change the Scripture or of Scripture make no Scripture or lastly she may teach somewhat coÌ„trary to Scriâ—… or depart from the true sense of Scripture In which sense the Sectaries of this tyme say that we affirme the Church to be aboue the Scripture And thus it is falso that the Church is aboue the Scripture but neyther is there any Catholike which in this sense will
with his Church not only one or two dayes or one yeare but euen till the end of the world He promised that he would giue the holy Ghost to remayne and stay with vs not for one on two yeares only but euerlastingly It is needfull therfore that he performe and stand to his promises 28. The second argument If those things which we haue said of the Church as Iudge were true it would also follow that the Church is Iudge of the holy Scripture and consequently of the word of God in generall I answere that the word of God in generall cannot be called in question or doubted of by any which professeth Christ. For the diuine fayth cannot be without some word of God but where there is noe controuersy there is no neede of any Iudge But if of any one part of the word of God whether it be written or not written there arise any controuersy as for example of the true sense of the written word without doubt we must recurre vnto the iudgement of the Church for it belongeth vnto her to iudge of the true sense of the holy Scripture and of the exposition thereof which is the chiefer part of the written word as also of any doubtfull letter of the holy Scripture for seeing that in tymes past there haue beene many controuersyes of diuers books of holy Scripture and of the particuler Chapters and parts thereof as also of the true sense of the letter and other written poynts of sayth it is manifest that noe other Iudge but the Catholike Church hath ended or defined all these controuersyes 29. But in this iudgement of the Church there are two thinges to be considered the one that the Church doth not iudge of any part of the word of God out of her owne proper sense and iudgment or at her owne pleasure without the word of God as her Aduersaries and namely Caluin doth wrongfully slaunder her but by one part of the word of God which is better knowen she iudgeth of that which is lesse knowen â—…nd manifest vnto vs as for example by the word of God deliuered by Traditions she iudgeth of the written word of God and of the true sense therof 30. The other thing to be confidered is that when the Church doth iudge of these things they are not men only which iudge as our Aduersaries pretend but the holy Ghost also himselfe who iudgeth and speaketh vnto vs by the Church It seemed good say the Apostles to the holy Ghost and vs. For euen as the actions of a mans body are not so properly the actions of the body as of the soule which quickneth and moueth the body so the actions of the whole Catholike Church are not so much to be attributed vnto men who are as it were the body of the visible Church as vnto the holy Ghost who is as it were the soule which giueth lyfe and motion to the body of the Church They therfore who deny this iudgement of the Church are not only iniurious to the Church but also to the holy Ghost Hitherto of the properties offices and power of the true Church of Christ. It remayneth now we shew such a Church as the Scripture declareth and describeth vnto vs the which Caluin as we haue sayd before earnestly desired of vs. FINIS 1. ad Tim. 3. v. 15. Cap. 13. seq §. 16. Ad Hebrâ—… 6. v. 18. Exod. 20. v. 22. Exod. 24. v. 2. 3. Ad Gal. â—… v. 12. Calu. l. 1 Inst. cap. 7. sect 1. 2. Calu. eodâ—… c. 7. sect 4. in fine sect 5. Supra coÌ„tro 1. c. 5. infra hac coÌ„tr 6. cap. 15. Supra Controu 1. cap. 4. Supra CoÌ„trouers 1. c. 26. sequent S. Irenaeus l. 3. cap. 4. Supra Contr. 1. c. 26. 27. Ad Rom. 3. v. 4. 2. ad Tim. 2. v. 19. Calu. l. 4. Instit. c. 1. sect 2. Vide disp Paris an 1566. in disp 1. diei sub finem 2. ad Cor inth 4. v. 13. Eccles. 19. v. 4. 1. Ioan. 4. v. 1. Supra cap. 3. huius Controu Supra cap. 7. huius Controu Matth. 10. v. 20. Ioan. 14. v. 1â—… Ioan. 16. v. 13. Supra c. 8. huius Controu Gal. 1. v. 12. Tertul. l. 4 contra Marci c. 2. S. Hier. Ep. 11. S. Aug. Tom c. contra Paustum Manich. l. 28. c. 4. Teâ—…t loco citato Gal. 2. v. 2 Luc 1. v. 1. Matt. 18. v. 17. 1. Ioan 4. v. 6. Calu. l. 4. Instit. c. 9. sect 1. Bezac 4. suae confess sect 27. S. Thom. 〈◊〉 4. libro contra Gent. Infra cap. 19. huius Controu Ad Rom. â—…0 v. 14. seq 1. ad Tim. 3 v. 15. Ioâ—… 9. v. 6. Psalm 74. vel iuxta Hebrâ—…s 7â—… v. 4. Calu. in 1. ad Tim. 3. v. 15. Infra hac Controu cap. 16. in fine Calu. loco citato Ad Rom. 10. v. 17. Beza in 1. ad Tâ—… 3. v. 1â—… S. Aug. Tom. 6. coÌ„tra Epist. Manichaei cap. 5. Calu. l. 1. Instit. sect 3â—… S. August Tom. 6. coÌ„tra FaustuÌ„ l. 13. c. 4. Cap. 7. praecedent 2. ad Corinth 1â—… v. 3 1. ad Thes. 4. v. â—… Calu. l. 1. Iust. c. 9. sect 2. 1. ad Corâ—…nt 2. v. 15. Calu. c. 9. citat sect â—… 1. Ioan. 4. v. 6. Infra c. 18. huius coÌ„ir â—… 10. Calu. lib. 1 Iust. c. 7. sect 2. Beza in 2. c. ad Ephes. v. 20. Calu. loco citato S. Chrysost. Hom. 6. in c. 2. ad Ephes S. August Tom. 8. in Psal. 86. ad v. â—… Theophil alij in c. 2 ad Ephes. Ad Ephes. 2. v. 14. Apocal. 21 v. 14. S. Augustâ—… Tom. 8 in Psal. 86. in initio Psal. 5. v. 7. Cap. 13. praecedent §. 17. 19. Ad Rom. 10. v. 17. Supra c. 7. Canus l. 2. de locis Theol. c. 8. Bellarm. l. 3 de verbo Dei c. vlâ—… Ioan 1. v. 7 Ioan 5. v. 34. Eodem c. 5. v. 36. Eodem c. 5. v. 36. Cap. 5. Matth. 3. v. vlt. Matth. 17. v. 5. Suprac 8. 13. huius Controu Tertul. l. 4 contra Marci c. 2. Luc. 1. v. 2. Supra cap. 5. Contr. 1. ToletanuÌ„ Concil c. 16. Rom. 20. v. 8. Ad Roâ—… â—…0 v. 10. Ibid v. 14 â—… Isaiae 59. v. vâ—… 1. ad Cor. 4. v. 15. Beilarm l. 3. de verbo Dei c vlt. in resp ad 14 argum Cap. 13. praecedent §. 17. 1â—… Ioan. â—…5 v. 24. S. Augustâ—… Tom. 9. Tract 91. in Ioan. Ioan. 10. v. â—…7 Cap. 18. Contrâ—… â—… Ioan. 5. v. â—… Psalm 1â—… Isaiae 8. v. 20. Ioaâ—… 16. v. 13. 1. ad Tim. 3. v. 15. Matt. 18. v. 17. 1. ad Cor. 4. v. vlt. 2. Cor. vlt. v. 2. 2. Cor. vlt. v. 10. Matth. 18. v. 19. Ioan 20. v. 23. 1. Cor. 5. v. 34. 5. 1. Cor. â—… v. 〈◊〉 Num. 11. v. 16. 17. 25. Deut. 17. v. 8. seq 2. Par. 19. v. 10. 11. Mat. 2 v. â—… 3. Act. 15. v. 28. Act. 15. v. vlt. Act. 16. v. 4. Act. 21. v. 25. Calu. in Antid coÌ„tra Concil Trid. sess 1. in fine Ad Titum 1. v. 2. Math. vit v. vit Iohn 14. v. 16. Concil Trident sess 4. Calu. l 4. Instit. c. 8. sect 13. Act. 15. v. 28. Calu. in Antid coÌ„tra 4. sess Concilij Trid. in 〈◊〉
faith we do not vnderstand by the Church the shoulders or bodyes of them who are in her but their authority doctrine and preaching for by these thinges faith is ingendred and as the Apostle witnesseth faith is by hearing 15. But whensoeuer we treate of the true Church of Christ we do not speake of that which wanteth true faith which is deafe dumme or foolish and which also eyther neglecteth or not vnderstandeth the Word of God or Scriptures for such a Church is not the true Church of Christ. But we speake of that which belieueth which speaketh which preached the pure word of God which kepeth and expoundeth the Scriptures most faithfully and which fittly applyeth them in Sermons Exhortations Amōg vs therfore all these wordes haue one and the same signification the Church the faith of the Church the preaching and doctrine of the Church the word of God preached by the Church and the truth of God proposed vnto vs by the Church And we vnderstand all these thinges by the name of the Church when we say that she is the groūd of our fayth For all these thinges are eyther properties actions or offices of the Church which cannot be separated from her 16. Wherefore our Aduersaries doe erre exceedingly whē they separate euery one of these from the Church and oppose or obiect it against her as though it were a quite distinct thing from her nay of the true Church of Christ they make her the Sinagogue of Sathan Therfore the Apostolicall Propheticall doctrine must not be separated and made opposite vnto the Church as Caluin doth seeing that it is an essentiall part of the visible Church Caluin therefore disputeth as if one should make this argument A man without his soule neyther seeth speaketh nor vnderstandeth therefore a man neyther seeth speaketh nor vnderstandeth 17. But peraduenture some will say We haue said a little before that faith is the ground of the Church and now we say that the Church is the ground of faith wherof the one seemeth to be contrary vnto the other I answere that heere there is no contrariety For there are two kindes of faith the one is the particuler faith of euery Christian wherby togeather with hope and charity euery one is iustified the other is the generall and common faith of the whole Church The particuler faith of ech one relyeth vpon the Church to wit vpon the faith preaching and authority of the whole Church But she her selfe relyeth vpon the generall faith and profession and preaching thereof in the whole Church which is an essentiall part of the visible Church When therfore we say that the Church is the ground of faith we speak of the particuler faith of euery Christian. But when we say that faith is the ground of the Church we speake of the generall faith of the whole Church 18. There are other arguments of our Aduersaries but we may easily answere therunto by that which hath byn already said the which Melchior Canus and Bellarmine doth prosecute and handle more at large vnto whom we referre the Reader For they are borrowed of the Anabaptists Libertines wherby the authority of the holy Scriptures themselues is no lesse diminished and infringed then that of the Church CHAP. VII That the Church doth not only giue a bare testimony but also authority to the Scripture THIS matter is heere briefly to be examined that it may more clearly be vnderstood how necessary the Churches approbation is to the establishing of the authority of the holy Scriptures But to the end that it may more clearely appeare wherof we dispute in this place it is to be considered that seing that our Aduersaries cannot deny but that the Church affoardeth some testimony to the holy Scriptures they affirme that this testimony of the Church is only a bare testimony and not a testimony of authority 2. For there are two kindes of testimonyes The one is called a testimony of authority because vpon it the truth of the things testified dependeth Yt is called also a necessary testimony because without it the thing in question is not sufficiently testified The other is called a bare testimony and not necessary that is to say when such a testimony is not so necessary because the matter is otherwise sufficiently testified Such a testimony was that which S. Iohn Baptist gaue of Christ. For Christ had sufficient testimonies besides 3. Of the former testimony of authority Christ saith But I do not receyue my testimony from men to wit the testimony of authority necessary For of the bare testimony he had spoken a little before You sent vnto Iohn and he hath giuen testimony to truth But this was a bare testimony wherfore Christ a little after said I haue a greater testimony then Iohn for the workes which the Father hath giuen me to profit them the very works which I do giue testimony of me that the Father hath sent me And the Father that sent me himselfe hath guien testimony of me All which saith Christ of the testimony of authority Our Aduersaries therefore say that the Church giueth only a bare testimony to the Scriptures as S. Iohn gaue to Christ but she giueth not a necessary testimony or that of authority 4. But that the testimony of the Church is altogeather necessary as that wherof the authority of the Scriptures dependeth is very manifest by that which is said in the former Chapter And by that also which we alleadged in the first disputation where we shew that there is now no firme testimony wherby we may know certainly which booke is canonicall and which not besides the testimonie of the Catholike Church For now neyther are the miracles wrought which God did in tymes past neyther doth God speake immediatly by himselfe as he spake in the baptisme and transfiguration of Christ. VVherefore there remayneth only the third ordinary manner wherby God speaketh by the mouth of the Church The Church therfore doth not giue a bare testimony only to the holy Scripturs but the testimony of authority to wit that wherof the authority of the Scriptures dependeth as concerning vs and our knowledge 5. Moreouer if the doctine of S. Paul stood need of the Churches approbation as we haue already proued out of the Scriptures much more S. Lukes Ghospell who was only S. Pauls scholler stood need therof as Tertullian witnesseth especially because S. Luke receyued not those things which he wrot by reuelation from God as S. Paul did but by tradition from others as he himselfe writeth And the same also may be said of S. Marke whose Ghospell as S. Hierome writeth the Apostle S. Peter approued and by his authority he commaunded it should be read in the Church 6. But neyther is it true that some say that the authority of approuing the Canonicall bookes was only resident in the Apostles and the primitiue Church but the ensuing Church hath is not For the Apostles did not
auncient Fathers as Iudges of all Coutrouersies the which they will neuer do for they dare not deny but that the auncient Fathers were true belieuers why therefore do they attribute vnto themselues that which they so vehemently deny to all the auncient Fathers 12. Moreouer if euery belieuer cannor erre in his iudgement much lesse can a great many such erre and least of all can the Church of all belieuers erre Wherefore whatsoeuer our Aduersaries say they wil be forced to confesse and graunt that the holy Ghost is the Iudge as he remaineth in the whole Church speaking and iudging by the mouth therof and in this manner euen out of our Aduersaries doctrine we gather by a necessary consequence our opinion 13. Lastly that which they affirme that the priuate spirit of euery particuler person is Iudge is therby declared to be false that they themselues acknowledge that there is no priuate man which at some tymes cannot erre in his iudgment but heere we inquire for a Iudge which cannot erre For otherwise in matters of such moment and of which our eternall saluation dependeth we should dangerously be forced to haue recourse to an erroneous Iudge whose iudgement is variable vncertaine deceitfull and often tymes manifestly false 14. But now as concerning the third point that the Church is the iudge of all Controuersies we proue by these arguments First the Church hath all the properties of a fit iudge for first she hath an exact knowledge the holy Ghost shall teach you saith Christ all truth 15. Secondly the Church cannot be corrupted by any giftes or praiers For she is as the Apostle witnesseth the pillar and ground of truth 16. Thirdly the Church heareth speaketh giueth her iudgment and examineth the testimonyes of Scriptures and Fathers as experience it selfe teaeheth vs. 17. Fourthly we are bound to stand to the iudgement of the Church VVho will not heare the Church saith our Lord let him be vnto thee as an heathen and publican 18. Fiftly the Church hath power and authority to punish VVhat will you saith the Apostle that I come vnto you with a rodde or in charity and with the spirit of mildnesse And in another place If I come againe I will not spare And againe that being present I may not deale hardly according to the power which our Lord hath giuen me vnto edification and not vnto destruction 19. Sixtly the Church absolueth byndeth and retayneth sinnes excommunicateth as the holy Scriptures doe expresly testify and our Aduersaries doe also confesse all which actes belong vnto Iudges but the Scripture doth none of them 20. The second argument The holy Scripture expresly affirmeth that the Church doth sometymes iudge I indeed absent in body but present in spirit haue already iudged at present him that hath so done in the name of our Lord Iesus Christ you being gathered togeather and my spirit with the vertue of our Lord Iesus Christ to deliuer such an one to Sathà n And a little after Do not you iudge of them that are within where the Apostle plainly saith that the Pastours of the Church iudge those which are in the Church 21. The third argument is taken from their common practice of the Church aswell in the old as in the new Testament For in the old Testament the chiefe iudgement of all causes was ordeined by God himselfe first in the booke of Numbers and afterward it was confirmed in Deuteronomy in which Iudgment the priestes did sit as Iudges and the chiefe Iudge who did giue his sentence for in all thinges which were doubtfull by the expresse commaundement of God the common people were sent to this Iudgement of the Church and not only to the holy Scriptures or to the priuate spirit of any 22. Moreouer till the comming of Christ this manner of iudging continued in the old Law For of it Christ himselfe sayd Vpon the chaire of Moyses haue sitten the Scribes and the Pharifies All thinges therfore whatsoeuer they shall say to you obserue yee and doe yee this Councell or Iudgment in the yeares following by corrupting the Greeke word the Iewes called Sanhedrin as it were 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is to say an assembly or Councell 23. In like manner in the new Testament when there arose that controuersy about the obseruatioÌ„ of the legall ceremonies or customes the Apostles did not send their disciples to the holy Scriptures only or to the priuate spirit of any but they assembled themselues togeather and defined what was to be belieued It seemed good say they to the holy Ghost and vs. For the holy Ghost is as it were the soule of the Church And this Decree of the Apostles S. Paul and S. Barnabas did diuusge and promulgate euery where as appeareth by the same Chapter and the next following where these determinations of the Apostles are called Decrees or according to the Greek Phrase 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is to say things already iudged wherupon Act. 21. vers 25. the Apostles doe say that iudging and decreeing they had written this 24. In the same manner in the next ages the Arians the MacedoniaÌ„s the Nestorians Eutichians and other old Heretikes were iudged and condemned by the Catholike Church in the generall Councells holden at Nice Constantinople Calcedon and others 25. Lastly our Aduersaries in their consistories and assemblies doe vsurpâ—… vnto themselues the authority of iudges neyther doe they referre the iudgment to the Scriptures alone or to the priuate spirit of any 26. Yea Caluin conuinced by these reasons confesleth that the writinges of euery priuate person must be submitted to the iudgmeÌ„t of the Church Where he also concludeth thus Neyther therefore sayth he do we condemne or aiminith the authority of the Church neyther do we giue liberty to euery froward fellow to do what â—…sieth I would to God they would shew vs such a Church as the holy Scripture doth paint or describernto vs we would easily agree about the honour thereof Thus he But we will shew in the ensuing Chapters such a Church as the Scripture describeth I wish also we may agree concerning the honour and authority thereof 27. There are two principall arguments of our Aduersaries the first is that the holy Ghost is not tyed vnto men but iudgeth freely in whatsoeuer it pleaseth him therefore he is not tyed vnto the Church But the same argument would proue that there is no certainty in the holy Scriptures For they who wrote the Scriptures were men vnto whome according to our Aduersaries opinion the holy Ghost was not tyed I answere therfore that the holy Ghost is not absolutly bound or tyed vnto men but he is tyed to his owne Promise as also to the words and promises of Christ. For neyther the holy Ghost nor Christ himselfe can deceiue vs in not performing their promises because as the Apostle sayth God cannot lye But God hath promised that he wil be