for them either in the Sacrifices of the Altar or of praier or almes-deedes Though yet they profit not euerie one they are made for but those alone who obtaine in their life time that they may profit them De Haeresibus haer 53. The Aerians tooke their names for à certaine Aerius who being Priest was said to be troubled he could not be made Bishop and falling into the Arrians heresie added some of his owne tenets affirming that it was not lawfull to pray or offer Sacrifice for the Dead De cura pro mortuis c. 1. In the bookes of the Machabees we reade that a sacrifice was offered for the dead Howbeit though it were not at all read in the ancient Scriptures the authoritie of the vniuersall Church which is euident in point of this custome is uo small matter where the commendation of the dead hath its proper place in the prayers of the priest which are powred out to God at his Altar Here you will marke two things The first is that saint Augustine esteemed the Machabees to be Scripture since he argues for Purgatorie from it and indeed he confirmes the same both in his seconde booke of Christian Doctrine the eight Chapter and also in his 18. booke of the Cittie of God 36. Chap. in these words The bookes to witt two of the Machabees are held to be Canonicall not by the Iewes but by the Church The seconde that though there were no scripture for it yet ought the authoritie of the vniuersall Church to preuayle at it doth in many other things of greater cō sesequence Witnesse the said Saint in diuers passages which both the Catholike and Protestant doe admitt of For first Epist fundamen moued by the authoritie of the Church we beleeue the Gospell it selfe which without it we should not beleeue I would not saith he beleeue the Gospell vnlesse the authoritie of the Catholike Church did moue me to it Secondly we beleeue many things which are not in the Scripture as that the sonne is consubstantiall with the Father It is not found written in holy writt saith he and yet that it is said is defended in the assertion of faith That the Father is vnbegotten We read not in those bookes the scriptures that the Father is vnbegotten Epist 174. and yet we make good that we ought to say so in the same place That the Holy Ghost is to be adored Giue me say you he meanes Maximinus an Arrian some testimonies where the Holy Ghost is adored as though forsooth replyes saint Augustine out of these things which we reade we vnderstoode not also some things which we reade not That it was written when the Apostle saint Paul was baptised no mention being made of the rest of the Apostles It is written when the Apostle saint Paul was baptised and it is not written when the rest of the Apostles were baptised and yet we must vnderstand that they also were baptised Finally that a child which cannot yet speake is said to beleeue and may be baptised Be it farre from me to affirme that children beleeue not c. he beleeues in another who offended in another It is answered dicitur he beleeues and it is of force and he is numbred among the faithfull baptised See what a necessitie is imposed vpon all Christians to haue some other infallible ground besides Scripture to stand vpon both to make good Scripture it selfe to witt that it is the true word of God that there are so many bookes of it and no more that we haue the true sense of it c. and many other maine grounds of Christianitie which you see we dare not denye while yet we can produce no formall scripture for them Now what ground that is let the same Saint Augustine deliuer Saint Cyprian faith he doth admonish vs that we should run backe to the fountaine that is to the Apostolicall Tradition and so bring downe the chanells to our tymes It is the best way l 5. cap 26. contra Donatistas and to be done without doubt And againe it is manifest that in a thing doubtfull the authoritie of the Catholike Church confirmed by the order of Bishops succeeding one another and the consent of people Ex libro cōtra Manichaos Dist 11.6 Palam from the verie foundation of the seas of the Apostles till this present tyme is of force to faith valet ad fidem And to know which is an Apostolicall Tradition which not De Bap. con Don. l. 4. c. 24. and l. 2. c 7. and Epist 118. c. 1. the same saint Augustine leaues vs another Rule thrice ouer for fayling What the VNIVERSALL CHVRCH holds and is not yet established in Councells but is alwayes obserued is most rightly beleeued to haue bene deliuered by no other then by Apostolicall authoritie Whence he concludes that it is a most insolent madnesse to dispute whether that ought to be done which the whole Church frequents all ouer the world But the whole Church all ouer the world in the yeare 1517. frequented as all our aduersaries confesse and condemne in vs an vnblouddy sacrifice prayer almes c. for the dead that they might be freed from their sinnes c. therfore it was following saint Augustins phrase and is a most insolent madnesse to deny it In conclusion either hath the proposition and practice of the VNIVERSALL CHVRCH auhoritie to conuince the beleife of a thing not otherwise written yea or no If not It were but meete that the simpler sorte should be instructed clearely and fairely vpon what infallible warranty they beleeue these ensuing points which they meete not with in their Bible 1. That Christians haue indeed the whole reuealed word of God 2. That it is contayned in so many bookes neither more nor fewer 3. That the Epistle to the Hebrewes is a part of it how euer it was some tymes doubted of 4. That there is a certaine number of Sacraments c. as aboue out of saint Augustine BVt if you graunt me that the vniversall Church hath such an infallible authoritie and that vpon it you depend for the certaintie of the precedent articles I may say with S. Augustine you obserue by this of what importance the authoritie of the Cathol Church is but you must also answer me why Catholikes may not with equall confidence depend vpon the same authoritie in point of assurance of purgatorie I am not able to discouer a disparitie or apprehend how being held credible in the deliuerie of those she should not also be credible in this since both are equally proposed both relye vpon the same veracitie or credit Be pleased to ponder this part well and afford the world a cleare and satisfactorie answer The grounds of Christianitie seeme to me to be shaken if the Churches veracitie herein beviolated and great pittie it were that the animositie to make good our priuate opinions should betray Gods knowen truthes An erring Disputant saith saint Augustine is
Not at all by ought that you haue sayd No nor by your Mimique acting of the priest in hearing of confessions which wee perhaps shall heare too at the third or fourth hand for as you haue no character of priesthood for the hearing of Confessions so neither haue you any sealevpoÌ„ your lippes wherby though like the asinus apud Cumanos in the lioÌ„s skin you bray keepe some in awe yet it may be they will be instructed to discouer you and make your vayne aspiring the obiect of their contempt and laughter as it is of ours and euen of all your fellow reformadoes Your oâ—ne conclusion therfore which you discharge against us recoyles vpon your selfe nihil ibi actum quod quideÌ„ constet in all that you haue done it is certaine that you haue done nothing And your obiections and discourse haue in them neither any generall counsell nor except the Counsell of the vngodly so much as any counsell at all And now let mee tell you that it were much more for your credit to forbeare such bold brauing of the whole Catholique Church especially in a Catholique Country and in the Court of a Catholique Queene and that with such feeble and vnschollerly arguments of which were not your iudgment ecclipsed by partiality and your passion swelld by opposition and your ouerweening conceipt of your selfe the producer of extraordinary confidence and insolence in you you could not render your selfe guilty Also your presumptuous and offensiue language euen to the Masters of those schooles wherein you are not worthy to be a disciple is sufficiently obserued though coâ—ered with that patience which you haue not deserued Otherwise your weakenesse or malice or both would ere this haue beene characterd on your brow had not the hands of our Catholique Priests beene bound vp with modesty and charity and respect to those who see suffer but I belieue approue not your boysterous behauiour And in this buisinesse of writing your shame is layd open with the bookes you cite wherein your quotations are not sooner examined than your corruptions are discouered If therfore you haue not grace enough to become a vertuous Roman Catholique of which you made shew as there is good proofe when you came first into these parts yet learne at least to be rationall in your discourse honest in your allegations and ciuill in your language both to particular reuerend and learned men and especially towards the whole Catholique Church And then if you haue a disposition to say or write any more you shall be answered with solidity and equall ciuility And whereas one Mr Crowder hath reported that I haue renounced the booke I lately set forth and will not stand to it and that Doctor Holden who approued it for Catholique hath also refused to iustify it or words to this purpose and giueth this for his reason why hee doth not publish the answer which he and his Coadiutors as it is sayd haue framed thereunto which is indeed but a retreate for their inability to answer it I say it is false in him whosoeuer saith it and malicious in him that inuented it And I further professe to him and to the world that notwithstanding the slanders to the contrary I doe auow the sayd booke for mine and for Catholique and so doth Doctor Holden And if he or any or all his fellow Ministers will publish any thing that they will call an answer thervnto they shall not loose their labour they shall haue a reply wherein I make no question their weaknesse shall be made to appeare as herein appeareth the weaknesse of D. Cosens FINIS POSTSCRIPT IF D. Cosens or any one on his behalfe shall say that I haue not heere set downe truly what he wrote whosoeuer desires to be satisfied therein may if he please see the originall vnder his owne hand which is in my keeping And although his name be not set to it yet euery one that knowes his hand will grant he wrote it and the Countesse of Denbigh by whose order I receiued it sayd that it was deliuered to her by Doctor Cosens Which paper and others of his also he inwardly shrinking at his owne guilt hath mightily laboured to recall into his owne hands that soe there might remayne no handwriting of his owne against him but it was not fit that one of his temper should finde so much fauour but that they should remayne vpon the perpetuall registry of time by being committed to the presse seeing he hath deserued to haue part of the diuine handwriting against him that was against the blasphemous Baltazar THEKEL Thou art weighed in a ballance and art found too light
clearing of the place and discouering Theodorets sense in point of honoring and praying to the Saints or Angels let himselfe be heard speake where he discourses more plainely and fully vpon that subiect In his Epitome of Diuine dccrees De Angelis c. 7. THe diuine Daniel the Prophcte did also affirme that some to witt Angels wherof he spake were Princes of Nations c. And added withall that no other did helpe him while he made intercession to God for the libertie of the I ewes then Michael their Prince The 8. booke of the cure of the Grecian affections THe generous soules of the tryumphant Martyrs walke now in heauen and are present amidst the Quires of Angells Marrie euen their bodyes are not contaynd in their particular monumets The ancient deuotion to reliques which is neuer heard of amingst the protestants but the citties and villages hauing deuided them amongst them instile thē conseruers of their soules and Phisitians of their bodyes and worship them as Presidents and keepers of their citties and making vse of their intercession to God they obtayne diuine gifts through their fauour Their intercession made vse of Their bodyes being cuttin pieces the vertue of them remaynes entire and vndeuided And those so litle and diminutiue reliques haue an equall vertue to the whole Martyr Fauours and cures obtayned at and by meanes of their reliques while vndeuided and vncutt into pieces For the vertue present distributes fauours and proportions its liberalitie to the faith of the suppliants And euen these things moue not you to prayse their God but you deride and scoffe at the honour which all euery where exhibite to them and repute it an abominable crime to draw neere their graues In the same booke about à leafe after VVhy are you offended with vs who make not Gods Their honour but honour Martyrs as witnesses of God and most louing seruants Againe in the same booke BVt the faire and famours Temples of the victorious Martyrs appeare illustrious for greatnes Temples built to God in their name and honor excellencie and all kind of ornament and streames out the splendour of their beauteousnes on euery side Nor doe we frequent them once twice of fiue times a yeare but we celebrate frequent assemblies nay oftē we sing prayses euerie day to their Lord and Master And those that are in good health begge the conseruation of it such as are afflicted with any disease intreate to be freed of it They also demand children who want them and such as are sterill desire to become mothers c. Trauellers sue to them to be companions and guides of their iourney who returne safe render thankes Prayer to them Nor doe they goe to them as to Gods but pray to them as heauenly men and deseech them to be pleased to be intercessours for them Now that such as faithfully demand obtayne their desires their Donaries speaking their cures openly publish For some hang vp resmblances of eyes others of hands and feete made of siluer or gold To witt their Master accepts of small things and of litle value measuring the gift by the abilitie of the giuer And a litle after NAy further they are carefull to call their newborne children by their names procureing to them therby securitie and safe custodie Is it possible that this Authours testimonie should euer be vsed against honour and prayer to Saints Did euer or could euer any Catholike speake more aduantagiously in his owne behalfe Could the Authour euer more clearely expresse himselfe a Catholike or euen more fully and freely and euidently deliuer Catholike dutie and practise in this behalfe Which he himselfe also obserued in his Religious Historie c. 3. of Macarius his life saying in the end of the same I making an end of this narration pray and beseech that by the intercession of all these of whom he spake I may obtayne the diuine assistance And c. 18 of Eusebius And I pray that I may obtayne that intercession which hitherto I haue enioyed while he was yet aliue c. And finally in c. 27. of Baradatus Grant that by the assistance of their prayers I may approach to that Mountaine c. COSENS Saint Augustin in his 10. booke of Confessions chap. 42. hath these words Whom should I find that might reconcile me to thee ô my God Must I goe to the Angels With what prayer with what Sacrament should I doe it I heare that many desireing to returne to thee and being not able to doe it by themselues haue made tryall of this way and haue bene very deseruedly deluded by it CARRE There is some thing in that Passage which is most materiall omitted some what also false translated Take therfore the passage word for word as it lyes Whom could I find that might reconcile me to thee Was I to goe to Angels With what prayer with what Sacramēts was I to doe it is not in the text howbeit that much imports not Many desiring to returne to thee and not being able to doe it by themselues as I heare haue tryed these things haec can not at least be referred to the Angels alone and haue fallen into a desire of curious visions this clause of curious visions is quite left out though most materiall and were held worthy of illusions or to be illuded by it these words byit are added to the text because they may seeme to referre to the going to the Angels as though that were the cause of their being illuded which serues the better to patch up the Doctors sense wheras indeed their being illuded might either be imputed to their going to the Angels Prayer Sacramēts or els more immediately and apparently to the desire they had to haue curious visions which can neuer be deuoyd of fault But if he will needs haue all the mischeife be putt vpon their going to the Angels Let him please either to looke vpon the marginall notes in what impression so euer of his whole workes where he will find remedia vitiorum à Daemonibus the remedies of vices from the Diuells or els take the paynes to read on fiue or sixe lynes further and he will discouer what Angels S. Augustine spake of who saith For they being highminded sought thee in the pride of their learning and did rather exalt their hearts then kenecke their breasts And so they drew the Princes of the ayre towards them who conspired and were companions with them in the same pride and by them they were deluded through magicall powers c. For the diuell was transforming himselfe into an Angell of light Behold how and by what Angell they were deluded and consequently how this apparent difficultie falls all in pieces If any desire a clearer prospect vpō S. Augustins mynde herein by knowing of whom he had heard this opinion of being purged and reconciled to God by the mediation of the Angels c. Les him take the paynes to read what the same Saint saith in
celebrate together the Memories of Martyrs with a religious solemnitie Religious worship both to excite imitation Sacrifice to be made fellow partners in their merits and to be helped by their prayers yet so as we offer sacrifice to none of the Martyrs but to the verie God of Martyrs Altars though we erect Altars in the Memories of Martyrs c. If then saint Augustins mynde be made good by so many and so manifest places To what end should the D. come yet coldly dropping another seeming place out of the said saint or to what purpose should I answere it Howbeit lets yet heare him speake for euery ones full satisfaction S. Augustin l. 2. contra Ep. Parm. chap. 8. Cos. IF the Apostle had said you shall haue one for your Aduocate and I will pray the Father for your sinnes what good or faithfull Christian would haue endured it or accompted him one of Christs Apostles and not rather haue looked vpon him as vpon an Antichrist Car. I answer first that by Aduocate which is indeed in the text Mediatour the D. will either haue S. Augustine after the Apostle to meane the Principall and immediate Mediatour Mediatour which if the Apostle had assumed to himselfe he had iustly bene looked vpon by all good Christians not as an Apostle of Christ but rather as an Antichrist or els the mediate lesse principall and impropre Mediatour which he must meane if he would haue the place to make any thing against a Catholike and to his purpose And such certainly the Apostle both might be and was and yet is farre from incurring the censure of an Antichrist sith S. Iohn was doubtlessy a Bishop and euery Bishop if we beleeue S. Paul Heb. 5. is taken from among men and is ordayned for men in things pertayning to God that he may offer both guifts and sacrifices for sinne which is to be some kind of Mediatour or Aduocate representing their miseries pleading their cause and mediating their reconcilement to God by Christ the onely properly true Mediatour of Redemptiō In this kind of Mediation are the Priests employed saith Ioel c. 2. Betweene the porch and the Altar shall the Priests the Ministers of our Lord weepe and shall say spare ô Lord spare thy people and giue not thyne inheritance into reproach that the heathens should rule ouer them and thus finally concludes S. Aug. in this place doe all Christiā men commend themselues mutually to one anothers prayers So farre is he from speaking against mediating in this second sense or consequently from apprehending that derogatorie to Christ our prime Mediatour I answere secondly that here againe is a whole clause left out whence the clearing of the difficultie was to be demanded to witt As Parmenianus in a certaine place put a Bishop Mediatour betwixt the people and God And how did Parmenianus put Bishops Mediatours c marrie as purifiers and iustifiers of men by their owne vertue and iustice since they the Donatists allowed vertue and effect to the Sacraments and Sacrifice onely according to the qualitie of the Minister or offerer which was indeed to assume to themselues the proper Mediation of Christ Iesus who onely of himselfe is able to appease Gods wrath against sinne as being our principal immediate primarie Mediatour and indeed our onely Mediatour of Redemption who by the right of his owne merits obtaynes grace forvs the others onely by him and by his merits Such a Mediatour it is manifest S. Aug. spake of in this place and such we admitt none but Christ alone who spake against the pride of the Donatists which forsoothe would haue no spott or vice to be amongst them or their fellowes as saith S. Augustine in the chap. immediately before which was a prerogatiue due to Christ alone who was that one and true Mediatour for whō none prayed he prayed for all as saith the said St. in this 8. chap. In fine one of S. Augustines principall designes in this place was to proue against the Donatists that they iniustly separated themselues from the Catholike Church vpon pretence of the wickednes of the Bishops and priests in the Church for dato that it were so indeed yet were that no iust cause of a diuision or schisme since be the Bishops and priests what they will we ought alwayes to be secure of one Mediatour Iesus Christ the iust whom we haue an Aduocate with the Father and he is the propitiation for our sinnes Hence I beleeue the weakest may obserue that it is not fairely done of Mr. Cos. to make vse of the mistaken sense of an obscure passage in an Authour to stagger the vnlettered who are not able to examine him while being examined he beares no shew of difficultie along with him COSENS S Irenaeus against Heresies 2. booke chap. 57. THe Church Catholike doth not inuocate Angels bnt purely calleth vpon God and Christ CARRE Still something is left out most important to the clearing of the difficultie S. Irenaeus his words are these Neither doth it to witt the vniuersall Church doc any thing by Angelicall inuocations nor by incantations nor by any other wicked curiositie these words by incantations nor by any other wicked curiositie are omitted but cleanely purely and manifestly directing prayers to God c. Now what doe these words incantations and wicked curiosities lead vs to but the old heretiques to witt the Symonians the Marcites Meandriās and Carpocratiās against whom he had spoken shewing here that the Catholike Church in working her true miracles did not vse their proceeding in working false ones which they did by the inuocation and superstitious naming of Angels to whom they ascribed the creation of the world by incantations and spells whereby they deluded many especially poore women robbing them of fortunes and honour with the exercise of innumerable villanies as is to be seene in the 9. 20. 22. and and 24. chapters of his first booke but by fasting and prayer performed chastely purely openly and without hope of lucre His words are That vniuerfall Church which is in euery place demanding by fasting and much prayer the spirit os life returned to the dead man who was giuen to the Saints prayers What is here yet I pray against the inuocation of Saints Cos. Origene against Celsus l. 5. ALl prayers are to be sent and offered vp vnto God by our Angel and high Priest who is the Prince and Lord of all Angels Nor will our Religion permitt vs to supplicate or pray to any other whom so euer Car. Answer First your choyce herein is not verie happie if you should make him stand vp alone against all antiquitie ingenous men would not esteeme his word were sufficient caution after his so many errours yea euen in this place where he destroyes Christs Diuinitie making him inferiour to his heauenly Father Howbeit if you admitt his authoritie vpon this matter so doe I and thus I produce him speaking of the Angels in the same place O
Angels receiue man cōuerted from his old errour againe they the Angels holy soules and blessed spirits endeauour saith he to reconcile God to such as shall serue him and pray iointly with vs contra Celsum l. 8. pag. 432. Againe infinite millions of Angels make intercession for maukind Againe who doubts but all the holy Fathers assiste vs with their prayers in Num. c. 32. hom 26. Now make him blow hot and cold with the same breath and speake for you saying all prayers are to be offered to God c. nor will our religion permitt vs to supplicate or pray to any other whomsoeuer Loe you haue made him quarrell with himselfe but what haue you gotten saue onely by contradicting himselfe you haue destroyed the credit of the Authour you depend vpon while you hurt not vs who want not a number of others to relye vpon Were it not better to saue his credit saying with S. Hierome Origene Methodius Euscbius and Apollinaris write against Celsus and Porphyrius Consider with what arguments and with how many gliding problemes they dissolue the things which were wouen by the spirit of the Diuel and because sometymes they are compelled to speake they speake not what they thinke but what they are forced by necessitie to oppose to the Doctrine of the Gentils For saith he not in the same booke that had he discourered that Celsus had by Angells vnderstood true Angells as Gab. Mich. c. he would then according to his abilitie haue said something to the matter by reiecting the word Adoration and the actions of the Adorer that is offerings and Sacrifices and the giuing of the worship of Latria so that it is manifest that he denies not the prayer to the Saints absolutely but onely in the sense in which they held their false Gods were to be prayed to and adored which according to Plato they tearmed Angells and gaue them soueraigne honour as is cleare from S. Aug. in his 10. booke of the Gitty and is partly cited aboue where they are tearmed lesser Gods For saith he of the Angells in the same place though they doe descend c. and offer the prayers of men yet are they not at all so called Gods as that we are commanded to adore them or to worship them with diuine honour And to this we all say so be it contenting our selues to afford them an inferiour honour sortable to seruants which beares no proportion to that soueraigne and diuine honour which we reserue for the Great Master alone Cos. Tertullian in his booke of Prayer chap. 12. THese prayers are vaine and deseruedly farelted which are made without the authoritie and precept of Christ or his Apostles For such prayers be not for religion but superstition Car. Sinceritie is still desired The authours words are still either so indirectly or sparingly put downe that it is impossible they should beare out his sense and make it intelligible to the Reader Tertull. in this place speakes not one word of Prayer to Angels or Saints either in expresse tearmes or can the exigencie or scope of his meaning be wrested to it He speakes onely of certaine friuolous formes which he points out in particular leauing no place to mistake what he meant or obseruations in prayer which he saith rather conduce to superstition then to religion as is saith he the custome of some to put of their cloakes to pray c. Marke his owne words as they lye and then indge what reason you haue to make vse of them Hauing described some manner of praying he goes on saying But sith we haue touched one certaine point or part of an idle obseruation I will not fayle to marke out the rest caetera to which vanitie is deseruedly exprobrated because they are done without the authoritie of any precept either of our Lord or his Apostles What was it then which was reputed vaine as being done without authoritie c. what but the rest caetera And what was the rest was it happily prayer to Saints No not any syllable intimating that but the rest was such as was the vnum aliquod to witt emptie obseruation such then and not prayer to Saints must the rest be in good consequence nor dare any deny it since not I but the Authour himselfe a lyne after concludes it saying as is that of certaine persons putting of their cloakes to pray this clause cleares the doubt and yet is left out and not looked vpon Let vs now examine whether any fairer dealing or more sinceritie be vsed in the next allegation out of the same Authour In his Apologet. ch 30. Cos. THese things I can aske and pray for of no other but of him who I know is able alone to giue them to me and whom alone I serue Car. Nor here againe is there any mention made of Angels in tearmes nor doth the subiect oblige to any thought of them Nor are indeed the Authours words putt downe fairely as they lye though the sense is almost the same These things saith he I can pray for of no other then of whom I know I shall obtayne them because euen he it is who alone doth giue and I am he whose part it is to impetrate being his seruant who obserue him alone Marke onely what these things were which he prayed for in whose person he spake and to whom and you will easily discouer this place conteynes no difficulty at all The things he prays for are as himselfe declares in the precedent lyne Long life to all Emperours asecure raigne a safe Pallace stronge armies a faithfull Senate an honest people a peaceable world c. He speakes it in the person of Christians who were accused by the Ethnicks that they prayed not to their Gods for the Emperour Where vpō he makes an Apologie for them to the Emperour shewing that though they pray not to their false Gods who were but indeed dead men and therfore lesse powerfull then himselfe yet he retorts vpon the Ethnicks in these tearmes but you are irreligious who seeke safetie to witt by the meanes of false Gods where it is not you demand it of those that are not able to giue it ouerpassing him in whose power it is and so concludes that Christians haue not recourse to their Gods as they haue but to the true God in these words But we call vpon the eternall God the true God the liuing God because he alone is able to giue it He I say not the false Gods whom alone he excludes from that power of helping the Emperour without hauing any thought or making any relation to the Angels or Saints at all which yet he should haue done to haue made this place vsefull for your purpose as you must needs confesse Cos. S. Athanasius l. 4. against the Arrians NO man should pray to God and the Angels to receaue any thing but ought to petition the Father and the sonne c. Car. Still is the Authour surprised as it were and forced to speake
dreadfull sacrifice which is put vpon the altar is offered Which I will demonstrate vnto you by an example for I know many doe say what doth it profit a soule departing out of this world in sinne that mention is made of him in this sacrifice for if any king should send such into banishment as offend him and after their kindred making a crowne should present it to the same king for those banished men who suffer punishment whether would he not bestow vpon them some part of the remission of their sinnes in the same manner vsing prayers for the dead though otherwise sinners we plaite not indeed a crowne but we offer God sacrificed for our sinnes that we might make him who is most mylde propitious both to our selues and them OBSERVATION Marke here an vnbloudie worship and a propitiatorie hoste ouer which memorie was made of such as departed this life before vs c. intreating that by their prayer ours might be heard In fine prayer for all in common out of a beliefe that it is a great helpe to their soules A dreadfull sacrifice put vpon the Altar and offered for our sinnes What Church but the Rom. Catholike doth still obserue this ancient custome Gregorie Nazianzene In his oration in cōmendations of his deceased brother Caesarius Anno 380. And such things they are which we offer which if small and vnanswerable to deserts yet while we doe according to our possibilitie they are acceptable to God And some to witt things or duties we haue alreadie payed and other we will pay offering anniuersarie honors and comemorations c. OBSERVATION Anniuersaries and commemorations for the dead which we in communion with the Church of Rome still obserue and none but we At least the booke of common Prayer expresseth not such practice Gregorie Nyssene In his oration That we are not to lament their death who dyed in faith Lib. de anima Resur That either being purged in this life by prayers and the studie of wisdome or expiated after death by the furnace of a purging fire c. Againe It is altogether necessarie that while that which is faultie is consumed in purging fire the soule also which is vnited with the same faultines should remayne in the fire till that bastard materiall forged and corrupt mixture be entirely abolished being consumed by fire c. OBSERVATION Expiation after death by purging fire The soule relayned in fire till what is vicious and corrupt in it be purged by fire S Chrysostome Hom 12. in Matt. Why doest thou after the death of thy friends call the poore together why doest thou beseech the priests to pray for him I am not ignorant that your replie will be to the end the deceased may attayne to repose and that he may finde his Iudge more propitious or fauourable c. Againe Hom 21. vpon the Acts. Then shall his wife with confidence pray to or petition him God putting downe the price of our Redemption for him By how much he was more subiect to sinne by so much more stood be in need of almes deeds Call the widowes and tell his name Order euery one to make supplications and prayer for him This will appease God though it be not performed by himselfe but another for his sake be the Authour of the Almes And this is a doctrine of the dinine Mercy God hath giuen vs many wayes of saluation c. Oblations prayers and almes are not made in vaine for the dead The holy Ghost disposed all these things willing that we should helpe one another Againe Oration ◠1. vpon the first to the Corinth supplications almes oblations which he mentioned immediatly before were not rashly inuented nor doe we in vaine make memorie in the diuine mysteries of the deceased and approaching we beseech the proposed lambe who tooke away the sinne of the world in their behalfe but that they might haue some consolation thereby Neither doth he who is present at the Altar while the venerable mysteries are performed crye in vaine For all those who haue reposed in our Lord and those also who celebrate their memories c. for what we doe are not stage-playes God defend but these things are done by the ordinance of the Holy Ghost Againe In his Epist to the Philipp the 3. serm moral These things were not establisbed in vaine by the Apostolicall lawes or Constitutions that a memorie should be made of those who haue departed this life in the venerable and dreadfull mysteries OBSERVATION The priest makes prayer to God for propitiation to the sinnes of the dead For their repose The price of our Redemptiō is put downe for them Vse of the name of the deceased which the Catholike Church obserues yet in the Collect of the Masse of the dead as Peter Paul c. Prayer and supplications though performed by others appease Gods wrath is a doctrine of the diuine mercy disposed by the holy Gh. An Apostolicall constitution that memorie should be made in the diuine mysteries or Masse of the soules departed Theodoret. In the 5. booke of his Ecclesiasticall historie ◠36. The Emperour Theodosius hauing placed his eyes and aspect vpon the biere wherein were the reliques of that holy man S. Chrysostome he powred out prayers for his parents and intreated that they might be pardoned the iniuries which they had done through ignorance Now his parents were deceased long before c. Againe He offered prayers to God for the deceased beseeching him to remitt In the Historie of the holy Fathers of Iames Nisibit◠what he had offended in his life tyme and that he would daigne to receiue him into the Quire of Angels OBSERVATION Prayers at or ouer the Reliques of Saints a thing neuer heard of in our English Protestant Church for the soules departed that the iniuries which they had done might be pardoned not that the number of the elect be shortly actomplished c. which onely was the custome of the English Protestants in their Forme of Buriall Basilius Seleucius In his serm of Lazarus his being raysed to life If he who dyed were a sinner and had much offended God we must not onely weepe but giue almes also offer the Sacrifice of the Altar and performe such other things as may afford some consolation to the soule departed OBSERVATION Almes giuen and the Sacrifice of the Altar offered for the soules departed This practice is not found in the Order for the buriall of the dead in the booke of Cōmon prayer but is peculiar to the Catholike Rom. Church Procopius Gazaeus vpon the sixt chapter of Isaye makes mention of a purging fire Gregorius Presbyter In Theodoro Archiman drita Where some said to him that his mother was dead thou art deceiued quoth he she is not dead but liues He powred out prayers to our Lord for her fasting for the space of a weeke that our Lord would pardon her Leontius In the life of Iohn
in a word which is the very hindge on which the sense is turned and turned contrary to the assured truth thereof and that is the word Ipse he himselfe as if the condemnation of Almericus and the booke of Ioachim had beene the Popes act without the Councell that so you might proue the Councell falsified wherein the sayd acts are recorded to haue passed And then you adde as another saying of Platina or as your construction of the former words of Platina He sayes it was not the Councell of Lateran that made any decrees to condemne them but that Pope Innocent condemned them himselfe But Platina hath neither any such formall words nor are they the meaning of the words he hath for his saying the Pope did condemne them doth not necessarily imply that the Councell of Lateran did not condemne them for it might be done by both either seuerally or together and this latter way it was done as I haue already proued and doe now againe by the testimony of Beluacensis a Beluac l 30 hist cap. 64. who speaking of this Councell saith that the Abbot Ioachim and Almericus were condemned therein So that you are Ipse He himselfe that haue falsified Platina layd vniust obiections against the Councell of Lateran and apertè manifestly condemned your selfe of fowle play by the euidence of the fact For a close to this section you say wee may well conclude that both these and other things de quibus nihil decerni potuit in Concilio were by the Pope set downe in his owne Decretalls out of which he tooke these Canons whoeuer he was that compiled them into the forme of a Councell Your conclusion is like your premisses there is no truth in either of them both you say that both these and other things I suppose you meane all the Canons ascribed to this Councell were set downe by the Pope in his owne Decretalls that is according to your meaning inuented by the Pope and put first into his Decretalls for if they were first decreed in Councell and afterwards put into the Decretalls it is not for your purpose but against you and that it was so I haue already sufficiently proued and doe yet againe by the title of these constitutions as they are set downe in the Decretalls which are not barely ascribed to the Pope as many others are but to him in a generall Councell thus Innocentius tertius in Concilio generali Wee may therefore well conclude that your conclusion built on your extreme corruption of Platina hauing so rotten a foundation must needs fall to the ground Lastly you say that he tooke them out of the Popes owne Decretalls whoeuer he was that compiled the Canons into the forme of a Councell But I haue proued before that he tooke them out of the originall Records of the Councell and if he had taken them out the Popes Decretalls it had bene well enough those Decretalls not being the Popes owne singly as you haue sayd but the Popes and Councells of Lateran together as I haue many wayes proued So that of all that you haue hitherto sayd there is not one word but is either vntrue or impertinent and to vse your owne words de quibus nihil decerni potest Yet as if you had not sayd enough of this nature you goe on to make faults in steed of finding them as you suppose in others C. For the third Canon of this Councell concerning the excommunication of temporall Princes and the Popes power to free their subiects from all obedience to them and to giue away their kingdomes is indeed one of the Extrauagants cap. 13. de Haereticis that is Pope Innocents owne Decree and not the Councells of Lateran vbi nihil decerni potuit So in the 71. Canon concerning the recouery of the Holy Land from the Saracens for which this Councell was chiefly called and met together the compiler hath made the words to run in a Popes stile and not in the stile of a Councell Ad liberandam terram sanctam de manibus impiorum sacro Concilio approbante definimus c. neither in the Councell was there any such Decree made as both Card. Bellarmine against king Iames's Apologie and Eudaemon Cidonius in his Parall Torti Tortur doe confesse out of Platina He therfore that made these two decrees of absoluing subiects from obedience to their Princes and of recouering the land of promise from the Saracens may well be thought to haue made that decree also of Transubstantiation which hath made such a noyse in the world and for which this Councell is so often quoted vnder the name of Maximum omnium Generale celeberrimum Concilium Answer The third Canon of this Councell concerning the excommunication of temporall Princes you say is one of the Extrauagants cap. 13. de Haereticis but you are very Extrauagant in saying so for there is no such matter in the place by you cited nor indeed any such place as you haue here rashly set downe All that is to be found is this that in the fifth booke of the Extrauagants there is a Title de Haereticis vnder which title are only three chapters and in them not a word of this matter And this for the truth of your quotation I will now consider the sense of what you say and the truth thereof The third Canon say you is one of the Extrauagants that is Pope Innocents owne Decree By which it seemes that it is the same thing with you to be one of the Extrauagants and to be Pope Innocēts owne Decree as if the Extrauagāts were Pope Innocēts owne decrees whereas it is apparāt by the titles to whom they are ascribed that not one of them was made by Pope Innocent so mightily are you mistaken in this matter This Decree then is not Pope Innocents owne and not the Councells of Lateran as you say but Pope Innocents owne and the Councells of Lateran his in and with the Councell of Lateran as I haue proued You also cite your selfe for it is to be found in no authour else against the Councell of Lateran saying vbi nihil decerni potuit where nothing could be decreed against which I oppose besides all that I haue sayd before a man of much better authority Albertus Crantzius who saith a Crantz Metrop l. 9. cap. 1. sect Innoc. 3. Concilium maximum congregauit Lateranum ibi multa constituta quae hodie extant in corpore iuris there many things were decreed which are at this day extant in the body of the law Moreouer the sense of this Canon you doe lamely and with change of the tearmes set downe for there is no mention of kings nor kingdomes and then the Popes absoluing of the vassalls of temporall Lords for those are the words of the Canon from their fidelity to them and exposing their land to be occupied by Catholiques exprest to be but in the case of neglect to purge their land of heresy and continuance therein after
excommunication by the Bishops and after a yeeres contempt of making satisfaction and then there is added this reseruation also Saluo iure Domini principalis c. sauing the right of the principall Lord so that he giue no obstacle hereunto nor oppose any impâ—diment Now this power of the Pope whatsoeuer it be is farre from that which your confused words insinuate which to your weaker readers I suppose will sound as if the Pope had power to absolue the subiects of any kings from their fidelity and dispose of their kingdomes when to whom and for what cause so euer they pleas'd which is nothing so Yet if this power of the Popes were so vast as you belieue it or would haue others to belieue it why should it trouble you And why should you be more tender of the interest of Princes than they themselues and all their courts about them who either receiued this Canon immediatly from the Councell as I haue sayd and proued or else suffered it to be coseningly thrust vpon them as you haue sayd but not proued And I wonder that you a Protestant should fasten vpon this decree of deposing of Princes by the Pope to make the decrees of this Councell odious and incredible when as it is well knowne that the Popes in sixteene hundred yeeres haue not deposed so many as Protestants in one hundred for almost whersoere the gangrene of that heresy hath spread it selfe they haue either actually deposed and expelled their Princes as in Swede Denmarke Scotland Netherlands Geneua or diuers times atteÌ„pted by violence to doe it as in France often in Bohemia in Poland and now it is feared in England And if you say that though these Puritane Protestants haue both taught and done these things yet the true Protestant of the Church of England he neuer taught such doctrine he caÌ„not thinke such a thought without horror surely wee haue nothing but your bare and often broken word for our security For what experience hath the king or his few predecessors of your religion had that in case they should haue depriued you of your desires as they denyed to graunt the desires of the Puritanes if they should haue turned you out of your Bishoppricks and Deaneries taken from you the Church vsurped Liuings set vp a religion that would not haue endured wiuing preachers what experience haue they had that in these or the like cases your Protestants of the Church of England would not attempt their destruction and if they were able lay the axe on their necks as your Supreme Gouuernour of your Church of England Queene Elizabeth and her instruments did on the necke of the renowned Mary Queene of Scotland and Dowager of France Can you then thinke much that the Pope a person of an other quality and more dis-interessed than the subiects of Princes should haue some kinde of power by all conuenient wayes to reduce and correct hereticall Princes Especially seeing the Emperours Kings and Princes gaue their votes vnto this Decree and were for so much as concerned themselues the makers thereof But you will not belieue that this decree was made in the Councell but thinke that you haue proued the contrary My aduice then is that you acquaint the Kings and Princes on this side the seas with this strange cheat that is put vpon them it is like to be a matter of high acceptation to them of great reproach to their vnfaithfull seruants that would not discouer that which you haue done and of great prayse and preferment to your selfe You further obiect against the Act of the expedition for the recouery of the Holy Land which you call the 71. Canon but no body else doth so that I know because it runnes say you in a Popes stile not in the stile of à Councell By which I perceiue that though you are one of the Court yet you are none of the Councell for you are not skild in the stiles of Popes and Councells Otherwise you would haue knowne that it is the manner in those Councells where the Pope himselfe is present to decree things in his name with this addition sacro approbante Concilio as in the Councell of Florence inlueris vnionis euen as Acts of Parliament of England are made in the kings name with the aduice or consent of the two houses You say moreouer that Card. Bella mine and Eudaemon Cidonius doe confesse out of Platina that there was no such decree made Your Eudaemon Cidonius I cannot meet with heere nor is it much materiall for that answer which serues your quotation of Bell will serue him also seeing as you say it is both their confessions out of Platina For the finding of your citatioÌ„s out of Bell you vse vs very ill giuing vs no direction but a booke of perhaps twenty leaues in folio to finde out tweÌ„ty words which wheÌ„ wee haue found to recoÌ„pence our paynes we finde your mistake and falshood For Bellarm. doth not speake directly of the particular chapter of the expedition whether that were made in the Councell or no but of the buisinesse of the Holy Warre in generall de hoc articulo cuÌ„ multa disputata fuissent nihil certi definiri potuit and there is a difference sure betwixt nihil certi and nihil omnino nothing certaine and nothing at all as you would haue it And I suppose this nihil certi is meant in regard of the further and more particular managing of the warre from which they were hindred by the present warre in ChristeÌ„dome and which is no denyall of the Decree of the expedition which consists of a few generall heads concerning the raysing of contributions to this great worke from the clergy wherein the Pope himselfe gaue a great example of punishments on those that hindred it and indulgence to them that aduanced it with the like All which though they were vndoubtedly decreed yet it may be sayd with Bell out of Platina that after much disputation there was nothing certaine defined in regard of the neerer and more particular articles for the managing of the warre being put froÌ„ it by the present warre in Christendo me Yea it might be sayd nihil certi in regard of this decree it selfe not of the letter and intention of it but of the wars at home yea rather the contrary was certaine namely that it was not executed And if Platina or Bellarmine out of him had intended to exclude this Decree of the expedition which is all that wee affirme to be done in that kinde why did they expresse it with these reseruations of apertè and certi and not say directly and without limitation nihil as you doe which had beene more plaine and agreeable to the grauity of those writers Therfore by these reseruations they must needs intend some thing which as I conceiue is that which I haue expressed Howsoeuer certaine wee are that this Decree was made in the Councell by all that proofe whereby wee haue proued the whole Councell
of which this is a part and particularly because you heere make a particular obiectioÌ„ against it by Matth. Paris who intimateth so much by repeating a Matth. Paris histma p. 189. the substance of this very Decree in almost as many words as they are in the Councell which are too long to set downe heere Your further say that he that made these two decrees of absoluing subiects from obedience to their Princes and of recouering the land of Promise from the Saracens may well be thought to haue made the decree of Transubstantiation also And you say truth in that but it will not helpe you for Pope Innocent made them all but sacro approbante Concilio that is the whole Councell consisting of the Pope and the rest of the Prelats decreed them Nor haue you reason so to boggle at the word Transubstantiation or at this Councell for the word seeing the thing knew no beginning since our Sauiour as our Catholique bookes doe sufficiently proue and euen the word it selfe was in vse before this Councell as appeareth by Roger Houenden in Henrico 2. where he hath these words b Annul p. 576. Confessi sunt etiam quod Sacerdos noster bonus siue malus iustus vel iniustus corpus sanguinem Christi posset conficere perministerium huiusmodi Sacerdotis virtutem diuinorum verborum quae à Dominoprolata sunt panis vinum in corpus sanguinem Christi verè transubstantiantur Also by Blesensis who was king Henry the second his Chaplayne who saith c Blesens Ep. 140. Et vt gratia exempli in vno Sacramentorum vide as abyssum profundissimam humano sensui imperceptibilem pane vino transubstantiatis virtute verborum caelestium in corpus sanguinem Christi c. Both these wrote in the dayes of Henry the second and the Councell of Lat. was held in the dayes of king Iohn who raigned the second after him And in both these good English authors doe wee finde the word transubstantiated applyed to the bread wine chaÌ„ged into the body bloud of Christ nor doe wee finde in any story that these men were questioned for the vse of these words as if they did import any thing more in their sense than that which was the generall beliefe of that and the foregoing ages It is not therfore the Decree of transubstantiation made in this Councell afterwards which hath made such a noyse in the world as you say it hath but the heretiques and Schismatiques that haue opposed it Nor was this CouÌ„cell for this decrees sake called MaximuÌ„ omniuÌ„ generale celeberrimum but because it was summoned by the Pope froÌ„ all parts of the Christian world and there met together the greatest and most renowned assembly both of Clergy and Laity that euer was in the world which therfore it ill becomes you to deride In fine the three particular decrees you heere oppose but haue proued nothing against them are first inserted into the Decretalls which was done by Pope Gregory IX not many yeeres after the Councell was held who therein vsed the seruice of one of the best men of the world as I haue proued before Secondly they are put into the number of the Canons of this Councell by Crab who as I haue also proued tooke them out of the Originall Records Thirdly they are also reckoned amongst the rest of the Canons by all others that haue made edition of this Councell as Surius Binius and whosoeuer else Lastly they are receiued and allowed by the Catholique Church the strongest testimony of all others and doe you thinke to ouerthrow them who is sufficient for this he therfore that attempts it deserues the name of haereticorum maximus omnium generalis celeberrimus In the next place you inuade vs with an Arithmeticall argument but when I haue reckoned with you it will appeare that you are not a man of good account for thus you cast it C. But as it should seeme he that first composed it and stiled it so or afterwards set it forth and entituled it a Generall Councell had not his lesson perfect For betweene the seuenth and the eighth Generall Councell I trow there cannot another Generall Councell interueene as this notwithstanding is made to doe if it were so Great and so Generall as they say it is They count the second of Nice for the seuenth Generall which was held in the yeare 787. and the Councell of Florence held in the yeare 1449. for the eighth Generall as is there in the last session of it expressly set downe Finis octaui Concilii Generalis factus est 21. Iulii c. So that vnlesse they will make two eight generall Councells this of Lateran could be none ANSWER You passe from the matter of this Councell to disproue the title therof and say he that entituled it a generall Councell had not his lesson perfect and that because as you say they count the second of Nice for the seuenth generall Councell and the Councell of Florence for the eighth betweene thâ— seueÌ„th and the eighth there cannot another interueene as this is made to doe if it were so great and so generall as they say it is Truly if he that published this Councell had had his lesson no perfecter than he that made these obiections he deserued to be whipt for a trewant for neuer were there such idle obiections made I pray who are these they that account the Councell of FloreÌ„ce the eighth generall Councell your reader cannot but thinke you meane vs Roman Catholiques against whom you heere dispute and whom you would make to appeare so simple that they cannot tell eight But it is not the Roman account I trow that you heere follow but the schismaticall Grecian who yet will giue you no more thankes for it nor no more admitt you a member of their Church than will the Catholiques You must know thâ—n if you did not before that the eighth generall Councell was celebrated in Constantinople against Photius who made a schisme betweene the Latin and Greeke Church they of the schisme reiected this eighth and many other generall Councells which were celebrated in the west amoÌ„gst which this fourth of Lateran you so strongly and weakly fight against was one vntill the Grecians meeting againe with the Latins in the Councell of Florence the Grecians called that the eighth generall Councell which yet soone after they reiected and so at this day allow but seuen But if men may receiue and reiect Councells at their pleasure then you may with the Lutherans allow but six with the Eutychians which are yet in Asia but the first three with the Nestorians which are yet in the East but the first two with the Arrians and Trinitarians which are in Hungary and Poland none at all And this you and yours may doe with as good reason as they doe reiect and reuile this of Lateran and aboue all the sacred Oecumenicall Councell of Trent And