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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A54126	The counterfeit Christian detected; and the real Quaker justified Of God and Scripture, reason & antiquity. against the vile forgeries, gross perversions, black slanders, plain contradictions & scurrilous language of T. Hicks an Anabaptist preacher, in his third dialogue between a Christian and a Quaker, call'd, The Quaker condemned, &c. By way of an appeal to all sober people, especially those called Anabaptists in and about the City of London. By a lover of truth and peace W. P.	Penn, William, 1644-1718.	1674 (1674)	Wing P1271; ESTC R220484	73,223	125

which hath been the Cause why so many have been bewildred about the things there declared Spiritual and heavenly Things are not di●cernable by carnal Men they are hid from their Eyes till the Light shine out of Darkness to give them the Knowledge of the Scriptures they are as a sealed Book and they labour in a Labyrinth of Uncertainties I do say again The Light in all Ages hath made known Doctrines fit to be obeyed though not the Histories and Narratives of other Mens Actions which is thy silly Objection against the Light 's Sufficiency But one thing I must not forget on which thou didst not depend a little as an Instance to prove thy Conceit viz. How could we have known that Swearing in any Case were unlawful if it had not been written in the 5th of Matthew Swear not at all Dial. 1. p. 22. But this I proved to thee to have been revealed above 400. Years before that was written but what is the Reason thou over-lookest that Answer Clinias was taught by it rather to suffer a great Fine then swear the Essaeaens had rather dye then swear which was long before Christ came in the Flesh Was not the Light then a sufficient Rule for their practising of an Evangelical Doctrine by thy own Argument But T. H. art thou not greatly ashamed that because I supposed upon thy Principle thy Light and Rule to be two Reas against Rail p. 39. That therefore I contradict my self and overthrow mine own Opinion saying If Light be given to understand the Rule then it self is not the Rule much less greater then the Rule and as if thou hadst come rightly by this Consequence falling into thy customary Insults telling me T●is is so far from being Truth against Fiction that it discovers me to be a rash heady confident and ignorant Man one that neither cares what he sayes or affirms Hadst thou any Regard to God thy own Conscience thy Neighbour or thy own Reputation thou wouldst never commit much less continue to practise these horrid Wrongs against me However as I said before so again I affirm that supposing the Scriptures were the Rule that which informs me of the Rule and teaches me how to use it must be greater then the Rule in that it teaches me to know and do what the Rule cannot do of it self I query then if t●is Light be not the Rule how and which way I come to understand and use the Scriptures c. therefore eminently the Rule the Terms of my Argument for the Question lay not upon particular Rules C. The Primitive Christians took not their Measures from the Light within but from the Will of God revealed to them p. 46. Q. This is Confusion it self Are the Light within and the Will of God revealed inconsistent things Who was it revealed to them Paul turned from Darkness to Light the Will of God but the Light And what was it taught them the Truth when John said They had received an Anointing which abode in them and taught them all things unto which he directed and with which he left them John 1. 2 27. And doth not the same Apostle tell us If we walk in the Light we have Fellowship one with another c Was not the Light then the Rule of their Obedience and the Way in which they were to walk for the Accomplishment of that Prophetick Speech Isa 2.5 Oh ye House of Jacob come ye and let us walk in the Light of the Lord. And is there any thing plainer then that the Apostle Paul describes the Children of God to be such as are led by the Spirit of God Rom. 8.14 and that he exhorts the Galatians to walk in the Spirit chap. 5.16 and the Ephesians to walk circumspectly which was according to the Manifestations of the Light chap. 5.14 15 16. Finally does not the same Apostle pronounce Peace on as many as walk according to the Rule of the N●w Creature Gal. 6.16 I further told thee that the Waldonses Lutherans Prot●st●●ts ●alvinists c. made the Testimony of God in their Consciences the chief Ground of their Belief of the Scriptures Reas against Rail pag. 48. C. That the Walden●es c. made the Testimony of their Consciences the chief Ground of the Belief of th● Scriptures is confidently said but more then ever W. Penn is able to prove Q. But if W. Penn is able to prove that the Waldenses Lutherans Prot●stants Calvinists yea and Independents and Anabaptists too have made the Testimony of God in their Consciences the Ground of their Belief of the Scriptures wilt not thou then appear to have told a confident Untruth Let us hear what they say That the Waldenses held so thou mayst inform thy self if thou pleasest out of their History penn'd by John Paul Perin of Lyons lib. 1. cap. 1 cap. 11 cap. 13. Luther taught That the Spirit is required to the Vnderstanding of the whole Scripture and of every part thereof Again The Scriptures are not to be understood but by that very Spirit by which they were wrot Tom. 3. fol. 169. John Bradford a worthy Martyr thus answered the Arch Bishop of York who catechised him how he came to know the Scriptures We do believe and know said he the Scriptures as Christ's Sheep not because the Church saith they are the Scriptures but because they be so being thereof assured by the same Spirit that wrote and spake them Book Mart. vol. 3. p. 298. William Tindal another faithful Martyr in Hen. 8 his time writes thus It is impossible to understand the Scriptures more then a Turk for him that hath not the Law of God written in his Heart to fulfil it Again Without the Spirit it is impossible to understand them W. Tind Work p. 319. p. 80. B. Jewel against the Papists hath this Passages F●esh and Blood is not able to understand the holy Will of God without special Revelation therefore Christ gave Thanks unto his Father and likewise opened the Hearts of his Disciples that they might understand the Scriptures Without this special Help and Prompting of God's holy Spirit the Scriptures are unto the Reader be he never so wise or well learned as the Vision of a sealed Book Calvin saith It is necessary that the same Spirit that spake by the Mouth of the Prophets should pierce into our Hearts to perswade us of the Truth of what they delivered Instit lib. 1. cap 8 Beza saith That the understanding of the Scriptures should be fetcht from the same Spirit that dictated them Bez in Nov. Test 2 Pet. 1.19 Pet. Martyr taught That it is the Spirit of God that reveals the Truth in the holy Scriptures Com. loc p. 2 cap. 18. H. Bullinger asserted in his 4 Decad. 8 Serm. dedicated to K. Edw. 6. That men fetch the Vnder●●anding of heavenly things and Knowledge of the Holy Ghost from no where else then from the same Spirit What sayest thou to this T. H Can the Holy

God we might justly expect to be our Portion R. against R. p. 4. Thus T. H. layes it down But let us see how it is in my Book T. ● queries Will you be so liberal of your Revilings whether your Adversary give occasion or not He answereth for us Quak. It concerns u● to render them as ridiculous as we can and to make our Friends b●li●ve They do nothing but contradict themselves which is enough to us Upon which Reader I made this Reflection Certainly these things shew such premeditated and willfull Obstinacy to be Wicked that w●re we what he represents us to be IN THIS VERY MATTER the severest Plagues and Judgments of the eternal God we might justly expect to be our Portion c. p. 4. If any said IN THIS VERY MATTER then not in every Matter T. Hicks pleaseth to wrest or twist it to Oh gross Abuse Shall this Man go for a Christian But his Evil is greatly hightned when we consider that these Words were spoken of such a Passage as to this Minute he never so much a● attempted to clear from the Imputation of Forgery though so charged upon him pag. 67. of my Answer because there was no Quotation for it nor in sense can be expected for so plain a Fiction And yet he makes i● a formal Answer to ● Question about right and wrong Quotations which were not there in Question as if it were one and the same thing to say the Plagues and Judgments of God we might expect c. if so morally Evil as h● brought us in spe●king our selves to be for which he directed us to no particular Proof neither could And to say We might justly expect the Plagues a●d Judgme●ts of God c. if he represented us right as to Quotations about Doctrines out of our own Books which was never th● Question He that can thus invent add diminish and transpose both Words and Sentence● may write Dialogues at Pleasure and as easily abuse the Prophets and Apostles yea Christ Jesus himself as the People called Quakers IIII. His fourth Forgery he makes and that I think ●t ●o re●●●k is this Anab. But doest thou indeed believe that those Quotations in the former Dialogues are Forgeries Quak. I do so Dial. 3. p. 2. This is all false I never thought so much less writ so nor was that the Question taking Quotations for places cited as to Book and Page And if generally accepted by him he brings me in denying all which was as much beside my Thoughts Thus he shuffles with me and endeavours to delude simple People by the word Quotation which taken strictly does not reach the one half of those Answers he made us to give by getting a few Passages acknowledged which he has punctually made though miserably perverted to make them believe all given under our Name not so cited are also allowed under the same Term Quotations Besides he has not referred us for any such Answer in any Book I ever wrot This Reader is so far from proving and evincing former Charges against us that it is to multiply more Fictions and add to his other Score V. His Fifth Forgery is in page 59. and consists of two Parts The first is The foisting in of the Word only The second of mis-placing and applying my Answer that he may the better have his Ends upon me which is but one of his many unruly reigning Sins Observe because I told him that E. B. in saying That was not a Command to him which was a Command to another respected not those universal and eternal Precepts of fearing God and working Righteousness as T. H. untruly inferr'd But more extraordinary and particular Injunctions such as the Going of Moses to Pharaoh with many more And because I explain an other Passage out of E. B. by him cited and wrested viz. You are not dead with Christ who are yet subject to Ordinances after this manner E. B. pleads ONLY against such Ordina●ces as were but Shadowy and to pass off He puts the Adverb Only by me mentioned in what I said to this last Citation out of E. B. in my Explanation of the first Citation where I never mentioned it And that he might fasten a Contradiction upon me he omits this last Citation out of E. B. mentioned in his second Dialogue and makes the Answer I gave to his Use of it to belong to that which I gave to the former about Commands as if they had been but one entire Answer to one and the same Passage which were really two The Advantage he hoped to gain was this that I should say E. B. intended by Commands only extraordinary Ones as Mos●s's going to Pharoah c. and yet say That E. B. only meant such Ordinances as are Shadowy if only such extraordinary then not only such Shadowy if only such shadowy then not only such extraordinary as if they had been said of the same Passage and on the same Occasion whereas the first was in page 47. of E. B's Works and the other in page 105. as T. Hicks himself quotes them in his second Dialogue p. 59 61. But that which yet adds Blackness to this Forgery is first that at what time he foisted into my Explanation of the first Passage he bas●ly left out these three Words with many more which were on Purpose to shew I did not stint E. B's Use of the Word Command to the extraordin●ry Ca●es instanced in my Answer And next that after all that premeditated Injustice he flings these stinking Interrogatories at me Dost thou consult thy Credit in multiplying such Instances of thy Inadvertency and Folly What Reason hath any Man to b●lieve thee either in what thou affirmest or denyest that dost so apparently contradict thy s●lf This is not only to be bad but brazen withall To contradict a Man's self is reproveable but to make Contradictions in another Man's Name is detestable To commit Injuries against any is ill done but to brave the wronged with insolent Reflections must needs be a great Aggravation What think the more sober among the Bap●●sts of the●e Things VI. The Sixth Forgery I shall now mention is the Answer T. H. makes G. W. to give in his second Dialogue pag. 1. The Question and Answer I will recite Anab. I have form●rly detected you of se●eral perniciou● Error● concerning the Scriptures Light within Person of Christ and Resurrection c. What say you thereunto Quak. I say The Plagues and Judgments of God will follow thee G. W. denies that this was ever his Answer to that Question Appendix p. 13. Though he at the same time tells T. H. he no wayes doubts the Thing T. H. that he may not lye under the Charge of Forg●ry so fixt upon him by G. W. has by his Legerdemain p. 69. trapt in Joh. Gladman to cloak his Fiction thus Whereas G. W. denies that he said The Plagues and Judgments of God would follow T. Hicks th●se may certifie that G. W. and my self being

all this wre●●ing Is it to conclude therefore the Light within is insufficient which may as well be inferred against God Christ and the Holy Spirit for he makes me to exclude all other Wayes of Di●covery the● what is made by Scripture If an Account be wanting the Light of Christ is as sufficient now as it was in the Time of Moses and the Prophets who wrot both of Things past and to come But a Relation being with us the Light of Christ doth n●thing unnecessarily But 't is like T. H. degenerates not from his Ancestors he can cry Come down and save thy self c. 4. From our asserting the Works of the Spirit in us necessary to our compleat Justification or Acceptance with God he insinuates Our making those Works the meritorious Cause of our Salvation Dial. 3. p. 69. which is manifestly denyed and rejected by me in my Answer p. 72 73 82 83 86. whi●h he no more regards then if it never were The Trick of an unfair and shuffling Adversary 5. From my asserting the Necessity of an inward Work of Righteousnes● by the Power of Christ in these Words of the Apostles to the Galatians Let every Man prove his own Work then shall he have Rejoycing in himself and not in another He to make his Ends upon me infers That the Doctrine of Christ dying for Sinners hath nothing in it as the Ground of our Rejoycing For our Rejoycing must be in our selves not in another Dial. 3. p. 69 70. That Reader which aggravates this wretched Consequence by him charged upon me is first that he sayes it is plainly deducible which is so plain a Wrest And next that they are the Apostle's Words and not mine of which he makes so ill an Use Is this to make the Scripture his Rule that is so unruly in his Abuse of them I am sure a lying and an abusive Spirit has been his Rule throughout his three Dialogues which God rebuke 6. The sixth Perversion is as follows Being formerly assaulted by T. Hicks Cont. p. 50. for having said in a Book entituled The Serious Apology c. p. 148. That Justification by a Righteousness wholy without us is a Doctrine of Divels I undertook my Defence and performed it in my Answer to his other Dialogues from p. 68. to p. 98. I distinguished upon the Word Justification first as it might be taken barely for the Remission of Si●s or the acquitting Men of the Guilt and Punishment due to Sin which was the free Love and Mercy of God upon Repentance d●clared in Christ's Death as a Prop●tiation for the Sins of the whole World and therefore not to be merited by the best Works we can perform 2dly As it imported a being made inwardly just by the bringing in of Christ's Everlasting Righteousness to the Soul To leave out this latter and make the former only sufficient whereby Men are left in an unjust and unrighteous State I affirmed to be a Doctrine of Devils But notwithstanding this plain and scriptural Distinction to satisfie T. Hicks would he but be satisfied what I meant by Justification He is so unjust to me as to infer in my Name That I account the Doctrine of Christ's Death in the Nature of a Sacrifice to declare the Righteousness of God for the Remission of Sins that are past because transacted without us a Doctrine of Devils Dial. 3. p. 72 73 74. Canst thou Reader in earnest think this Man makes Conscience of his Endeavours against us who commits these frequent Abuses against our Books Persons and Principles As if because I acknowledged Christ's Death to be in the Nature of a Sacrifice to declare God's Righteousness in the Remission of Sins that are past unto them that believe c. to be one Part of Justification that this Transaction was confessedly without us even while we were Sinners c. that therefore I should call this the Doctrine of Devils because without us though the Word wholy be not there upon which lay the Stress and which was only said by me of a Justification that wholy excludes Christ's Righteousness revealed within to the making Man Just unworthily applying that Reflection to the begin●ing of Justification that I have so expresly owned which was made against a Doctrine no wayes concern'd in this true and Gospel-Justification In short If Justification by Christ's Righteousness without us be the same with being justified by Christ's Righteousness wholy without us then T. H. is not so bad a man as I have represented him But if there be any Difference as undeniably there is a●d a material One too then T. H's Inference and Con●lu●ion in my Name make a foul Perversion 7. The last Perve●sion I at this time think fit to mention is his last both in his Epistle and Book to wit from my saying upon a sad Conside●ation of his many Miscarriages towards us That his Head sh●uld not go down into the Grave in P●ace he thus interprets my Words I must take them either as a Prediction or as a Menace of some Mischief he himself or s●me influenced by him intend to perpetrate upon me The former I fear not the latter is most Probable as if Reader his not fearing a Prediction implies my not meaning a Prediction But why is the former not feared the latt●● more probabl● because he would render me a Murder●r as his following Words sufficiently evidence Wherefore sayes he I desire all to whom this Book may come that if at any time they hear of any Violence offered me or that I be ASSASSINATED they would remember these Words of W. Penn. that my Head shall not go down to the Grave in Peace Epist Book End Now though this miserable Construction be ridiculous with wise Men and rejected of several of his own Way and so unlikely a Thing in it self that I should proclaim that to be my Design that leads to t●e Gibbit viz. Murder yet I was unwilling to pass it by since first it rather renders him to be the M●n he suggests me to be And secondly It aggravates the Sin of his false Constru●tion because to insinuate it the better he has left out all these Words going before an● afte● that had they been mentione● wo●ld have detected his Malice viz. Though thou hast best●w●d much Time to abuse our Friends in general a●d my self in particular a Stranger to thee yet I can forgive thee Oh that these heavy Things might not be laid to thy Charge God will visit for these Vnrighteous Dealings if thou desist not Now Reader if I forgive how can I Assassinate and if it be God's visiting Hand how can it be mine or any influenced by me Again these following Words were the next to those by him cited viz. Yea the Light within will bear Witness to the Truth of these Things on thy DYING-BED and then remember me How comes this T. H. to be omitted Dying-Beds do not use to be unnatural Deaths Nor will the Light within

not absurd yea blasphemous to talk of God's redeeming the Seed Ibid. Q. No more Blasphemy then is in the Scripture which sayes Out of Egypt have I called my Son a Place of Burdens But I the less wonder at thy Ignorance in these Heavenly Things who never yet drunk of his Cup nor was baptized with his Baptism nor knew the true Fellowship of his Death and Sufferings but art now adding to them by as provoaking Impieties as any man of this Age hath committed against him Give me thy Judgment of these Scriptures and my Consequence from them And God saw that there was no man and wondred that there was no Intercessor therefore his Arm brought Salvation to him and Righteousness it susteined him Isaiah 59.16 Again The Year of my Redeemed is come and I looked and there was none to help and I wondred that there was none to uphold therefore mine own Arm brought Salvation unto me and my Fury it uph●ld me Chap. 53.4 5. Whence it is no Contradiction to say That God did rid himself of the Enemies of his own precious Life or that he brought Salvation to himself C. I infer from your Words this horrid Absurdity that God redeems himself p. 37. This is thy Truth against Fiction Q. It is not from our Words but the Words of Scripture and but that thou art become shameless I should wonder that any Man pretending the Scriptures to be his Rule should charge plain Scripture with Absurdity and Blasphemy C. Thus Christ is at one and the same time at Liberty and in Bondage redeeming and redeemed conquering and yet pressed down And though this kind of Language be Folly and Madness yet thou tellest us thou art content to use it p. 38. Q. And it were well if thou wouldst be contented not to abuse it Is this thy Religion to vilifie the Language of other Peoples Religion nay of holy Scripture it self But how dark art thou T Hicks to make b●th a Wonder and a Scoff at Christ's conquering and yet being pressed down at the same Time when the Scripture so plainly holds forth that he is crucified by such counterfeit Christians as thou art at what Time he reigns in the Hearts of his Children And is not the Spirit said to be quenched by some at what Time it lives in others And is he not grieved by the Rebellions of some whilst he is delighted in others Was not God at Liberty at what Time he said They made him s●rve with their Sins And was he not whole at what Time he said He was broken Ezek. 6.9 Canst thou reasonably infer because of these Expressions us'd after the manner of men that it is Absurdity and Blasphemy that God heals himself delivers himself and eases himself of his Enemies Words of equal Import Methinks thy unsavory Carriage should reflect Shame upon W. Kiffin with his Elders c. to suffer such irreverent Trash to come out of their Congregation if they value their Credit they will not suffer thee any longer thus upon the Ramble But before I leave thee in this Section I have one thing more to charge thee with and that is not only the Abuse of our words by concluding from Man's being turned to seek after a lost God and Christ that God and Christ are in a lost Condition but that they only want Redemption and that Men and Women are not the Objects of Redemption as in 3 Dial. p. 37. Then which nothing can be more false and consequently injurious to a People But I have left wondering that thou shouldst be base §. IV. Concerning our Belief in Christ Quaker ANother Instance by which thou undertakest to prove the Quaker no Christian is his Denyal of Jesus Christ to be a distinct Person without him Is this true or no Counterfeit I accuse you for denying Jesus Christ to be a distinct Person without you p. 25. Q. I say that thou hast varied thy Charge and given thy self an Answer to it out of my Book which was never an Answer to any such Matter viz. Herein thou hast shewn thy Ignorance and Malice nor is it so in my Book but Ignorance or Malice Thou also omitteth the Ground of my so speaking which is not fair viz The Quakers say that Christ is in them Christ is God-man is God-man in them Again there is but one Christ born of ● Virgin that suffered at Jerusalem Can that Christ be in Man In Defence of which strange Construction of our Belief thou hast offered nothing to what I opposed Howbeit I desire my Reader to take notice that since thou pretendest to own but one Christ and sayst that it is impossible that Christ should be in Man that thou both denyest the Scripture and contradictest thy self there is not any Doctrine clearer in holy Record then that of Christs indwelling with his Saints Joh. 14.20 23. Chap. 15.4 5. Chap. 17.23 Rom. 8.10 2 Cor. 13.5 Cal. 1.16 Col. 1.27 Revel 3.20 The same Objection thou makest against us holds good against them as thus Christ is God-man can God-man be in the Corin●hians What might not a T. Hicks have cavilled against Christ and his Disciples ●s well as against us Is this the Way to prove the Quaker no Christian that makes that Thing Error which can only constitute Men right Christians For if Christ be not there no Anointing can be there which John sayes leads into all Truth Besides thou contradictest thy self as thou mayest see Dial. p. 22 23. But to thy present Charge C. This I object against you your denying Christ to be a distinct Person without you to which thou speakest nothing signifying thereby that y●u are pinched Ibid. p. 26. Q. I told thee under the Head of Perversions that this was not all thou madest us to deny for thou didst untruly infer Our Denyal of Christ's Bodily Appearance concerning which thou speakest nothing signifying thereby that thou art pinched unless it be to deny thou ever saidst so as p. 26 31. thereby adding a Lye to the Shuffile But why are we pinched because we say nothing to a Doctrine the Scripture sayes nothing of Give me one Place that mentions Christ to be a distinct Perso● without us art thou so destitute of common Sense as to think of proving the Quaker no Christian because he denies a Doctrine not expressed in Scripture and yet at that Instance to magnifie the Scripture as thy sole Rule Verely thou makest thy self a Derision to all wise Men. But go on make the best of thy Charge C. G. F. in his Great Mystery p. 16. writes thus Thou art deceived who sayest Christ is distinct from the Saints Can any Man eat the Flesh of Christ if his Flesh be not in them Q. This probably thou mayst have found in thy Brother Faldo 's Book and thou mightst have found it defended in mine Wh●re is Distinct among G. F's Words which are these But God and Christ is in his Saints and dwell 〈◊〉 them and walk in