the Councel That there was no fear so long as none but Italians were in Trent and ingageth himself to secure it The grievances which they complained of were done in Germany the redress which they sough was in Germany Germany not Italy had been the proper place for the Councel R. C. proceedeth the Protestants were the first accusers of the Pope It may be so but not in a legall or judiciary way He confesseth That in doubtfull cases there ought to be four distinct persons the accuser the witness the person accused and the Iudge but not in notorious rebellion in which case there needs neither witness nor accuser And doth not this merit the reputation of a doubtfull case wherein so great a part of the occidental Church are ingaged who are ready to prove evidently that he who is their accuser and usurps the office of their Judge is the notorious Rebell himself I confess that in some cases the notority of the fact may supply the defect of witnesses but that must evermore be in cases formerly defined by the Law to be Rebellion or Heresie or the like The Popes Rebellion hath been already condeâ—â—ed in the Councel of Constance and his heretical maintaining of it in the Councel of Basile But the Protestants renouncing of his usurped authority hath never yet been lawfully defined to be either the one or the other Yet he saith The Protestants were condemned not only by the Councel of Trent but by the Patriarch of Constantinople to whom they appealed One that readeth this and knoweth not otherwise would beleeve that the Protestants in general had appealed from the Councel of Trent and were juridically condemned by the Patriarch of Constantinople Who gave the Appellants procuration to appeal in the name of the Protestants in general Who gave the Patriarch of Constantinople power to receive the Appeal Where is the condemnation Is the English Church included therein No such thing The case was this One or two forrein particular Protestants made a representation to the Patriarch of Constantinople of some controversies then on foot between the Church of Rome and them And he delivered his opinion it should seem as R. C. conceiveth more to the advantage of the Romanists thâ—n of the Protestants This he calleth an Appeal and a condemnation I crave pardon of the Reader if I doe not in present give him a punctual and particular account of the Patriarchs answer It is thirty years since I see it Neither doe I know how to procure it Thus farre I will charge my memorie that the questions were ill chosen and worse stated and the Patriarchs answer much more to the prejudice of the Church of Rome then of the Church of England The right stating of the question is all in all When the Church of England have any occasion to make their addresses that way they will make them more apposite more to the purpose But since he hath appealed to the Patriarch of Constantinople to the Patriarch of Constantinople let him goe I mean Cyrillus since the time of Hieremy whom that learned Gentleman Sir Thomas Roe then Ambassador for our late King at Constantinople had better informed of the true state and belief of the English Church He published a Treatise of his own much about the year 1630 which he called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or a confession of the Christian Faith so conformable to the grounds of the Church of England that it might seem rather to have been written by the Primate of Canterbury then by the Patriarch of Constantinople I will cull out a few flowers and make a posie for him to let him see whether the Patriarchs of Constantinople doe condemn the Church of England or the Church of Rome In the second Chapter he declareth That the authority of the Scripture is above the authority of the Church 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. for it is not equall or alike to be taught of the holy Ghost and to be taught of man In his tenth Chap. he declareth That 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 mortall men can by no means be the head of the Church and that our Lord Iesus Christ alone is the head of it In the thirteenth Chapter he asserteth justification by Faith alone just according to the Doctrine of the Church of England In the fifteenth Chapter he acknowledgeth but two Sacraments In the seventeenth Chapter he professeth a true reall presence of Christ the Lord in the Eucharist just as we doe and rejecteth the nâ—w devise of transubstantiation In the eighteenth Chapter he disclaimeth purgatorie c. All this he declarâ—th to be the Faith which Christ taught the Apostles preached and the orthodox Church ever held and undertaketh to make it good to the World And after in his answer to some questions which were proposed to him he excludeth the Apocryphall Books out of the Canon of holy Scripture and condemneth the worship of Images In a word he is wholy ours And to declare to the World that he was so he resolved to dedicate his confession of the Faith of the Greek Church to the King of England When this Treatise was first published it is no marvel if the Court of Rome and the congregation for propagating of the Roman Faith in Greece did storm at it and use their uttermost indevor to ruine him But he justified it before the Ambassadors of Roman Catholick Princes then remaining at Constantinople and came off fairly in despite of all those who did calumniate him and cast false aspersions upon him Besides his own autograph and the testimonies of the Ambassadors then present if there had been nothing else to justifie this truth the instructions given by Cardinal Bandini to Cannachi Rossi in the name of the Pope alone had been sufficient proof and the plots which they contrived against him either to have him taken away by death or deposition For at the same time they decryed the Treatise here as supposititious and accused him there as criminous for being the Author of it But God delivered him out of their hands He pleadeth moreover That the Bishops assembled in Trent were not the Popes Ministers Yet he knoweth right well that they had all taken an Oath of obedience to the Pope for maintenance of the Papacy Were these equall Judges I confess there were many noble souls amongst them who did limit their Oath according to the Canons of the Church But they could doe nothing being over-voted by the Popes Clients and Pensioners He asketh who were the accusers witnesses and Iudges of the Pope in the Parliament 1534 but King Henry himself and his Ministers I answer that they were not King Henries Ministers but the Trustees of the Kingdome they were not sworn to maintain King Henrie's usurpations they acted not by a judiciary but by a legislative power neither did they make any new Law but only declare the ancient Law of the Land Otherwise they medled not with the person of
upon uncertain suspicions No. In doubtfull cases it is alwaies presumed pro Rege lege for the King and for the Law Neither is it lawfull as a Father said some Virgins who cast themselves desperately into a River for fear of being defloured to commit a certain crime for fear of an uncertain Yea to rise yet one step higher though it were lawfull yet it were not prudence but folly for a man to thrust himself into more more apparent more real danger for fear of one lesser lesse apparent and remoter danger Or for fear of Charybdis to run headlong into Scylla He who forsakes the English Church for fear of Schism to joyn in a stricter communion with Rome plungeth himself in greater and more reall dangers both of Schism and Idolatry and Heresy A man may live in a schismaticall Church and yet be no Schismatick if he erre invincibly and be ready in the preparation of his mind to receive the truth whensoever God shall reveal it to him nor want R. C. himself being Judge either Faith or Church or Salvation And to his reason whereby he thinks to free the Church of Rome from Schism because they never went out of any Christian Society I answer two waies first It is more schismaticall to cast true Churches of Christ out of the communion of the Catholick Church either without the Keies or Clave errant with an erring Key then meerly and simply to goe out of a particular Church This the Romanists have done although they had not done the other But they have done the other also And therefore I add my second answer by naming that Christian Society out of which the present Church of Rome departed even the ancient primitive Roman Church not locally but morally which is worse by introducing corruptions in Faith Liturgy and use of the Sacraments whereby they did both divide themselves schismatically from the externall communion of the true primitive uncorrupted Church of Christ and became the cause of all following separation So both waies they are guilty of Schism and a much greater Schism then they object to us All that followes in his preface or the most part of it is but a reiteration of the same things without adding one more grain of reason to enforce it If I did consider that to divide any thing in any of its substantiall parts is not to reform but to destroy the essence thereof c. If I did consider that there are three substantiall parts of a true Church in substance c. If I did consider that any division of a true Church in any substantiall part thereof is impious because it is a destruction of Christs mysticall body c. If I did consider all these things c. I should clearly see that the English Protestant Church in dividing her self from the substance of the Roman Church in all her formall substantiall parts committed damnable sinne and that I in defending her therein commit damnable sinne I have seriously and impartially weighed and considered all that he saith I have given him a full account of it that we have neither separated our selves from the mysticall body of Christ nor from any essentiall or integrall part or member thereof I have shewed him the originall of his mistake in not distinguishing between sacred institutions and subsequent abuses between the genuine parts of the body and wenns or excrescences And in conclusion waving all our other advantages I doe not for the present finde on our parts the least shadow of criminous Schism He praies God to open my eies that I may see this truth I thank him for his charity in wishing no worse to me then to himself But errours goe commonly masked under the cloak of truth Fallit enim vitium specie virtutis umbra I pray God open both our eies and teach us to deny our selves that we may see his truth and preferre it before the study of advancing our own party For here the best of us known but in part and see as through a glasse darkly that we may not have the faith of Christ in respect of persons That which followes is new indeed To communicate with Schismaticks is to be guilty of Schism But the English Church joynes in communion of Sacraments and publick Praiers with Schismaticks namely Puritans and Independants This is inculcated over and over again in his book But because this is the first time that I meet with it and because I had rather be before hand with him then behind hand I will give it a full answer here And if I meet with any new weight added to it in any other place I shall endeavour to cleer that there without wearying the reader with tautologies and superfluous repetitions And first I deny his proposition To communicate with hereticks or Schismaticks in the same publick Assemblies and to be present with them at the same divine offices is not alwaies Heresy or Schism unlesse one communicate with them in their hereticall or schismaticall errours In the primitive Church at Antiâ—ch when Leontius was Bishop the Orthodox Christians and the Arrians repaired to the same Assemblies but they used different formes of doxologies the orthodox Christians saying Glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the holy Ghost And the Arrians saying Glory be to the Father by the Son in the Spirit At which time it was observed that no man could discerne what form the Bishop used because he would not alienate either party So they communicated with Arrians but not in Arrianism with hereticks but not in Heresy Take another instance the Catholicks and Novatians did communicate and meet together in the same Assemblies Illo autem tempore parum aberat quin Novatiani Catholici penitus conspirassent Nam eadeâ— de Deo sentientes communiter ab Arrianis agitati in similibus calamitatibus constituti se muâ—ua complecti benevolentia in unum convenire pariter orare caeperunt And further decreverunt deinceps inter se communicare At that time it wanted little that the Novatians and Catholicks did not altogether conspire in one for having both the same Faith concerning God suffering the same persecution from the Arrians and being both involved in the same calamities they began to love one another to assemble together and to pray together And they decreed from that time forward to communicate one with another The primitive Catholicks thought it no Schism to communicate with Novatians that is with Schismaticks so long as they did not communicate with them in their Novatianism that is in their Schism Have the English Protestants matriculated themselves into their congregational Assemblies Have they justified the unwarrantable intrusion of themselves into sacred Functions without a lawfull calling from Christ or his Church Or their dispensing the greatest mysteries of religion with unwashen or it may be with bloody hands As for communicating with them in a schismaticall Liturgy it is impossible they have
first sight think the shore leaves them terraeque urbesque recedunt but straightwaies they finde their error that it is they who leave the shore To Strangers c. that is to unskillfull Judges A true diamond and a counterfeit doe seem both alike to an unexperienced person Strangers did beleeve easily the Athenian fables of Bulls and Minotaures in Creete But the Crecians knew better that they were but fictitious devises The seeming strength lyeth not in the objections themselves but in the incapacity of the Judges But to his reason the more things are remote from the matter and devested of all circumstances of time and place and persons the more demonstrable they are that is the reason why Mathematicians doe boast that their Principles are so evident that they doe not perswade but compell men to beleeve Yet in the matter of fact and in the application of these evident rules where every particular circumstance doth require a new consideration how easily doe they erre in so much as let twenty Geometricians measure over the same plot of ground hardly two of them shall agree exactly So it seemeth that an error in point of doctrine may be more easily and more evidently convinced than an error in matter of fact He saith the separation is visible True but whether the separation be criminous whether party made the first separation whether there was just cause of separation whether side gave the cause whether the Keies did erre in separating whether there was not a former separation of the one party from the pure primitive Church which produced the second separation whether they who separated themselves or others without just cause doe erre invincibly or not whether they be ready to submit themselves to the sentence of the Catholick Church is not so easy to be discerned How many separations have sprung about elections or jurisdiction or precedency all which Rites are most intricate and yet the knowledge of the Schisme depends altogether upon them This Surveier himself confesseth That a Church may be really hereticall or schismaticall and yet morally a true Church because she is invincibly ignorant of her Heresy or Schisme in which case it is no Schisme but a necessary duty to separate from her In this very case proposed by himself I desire to know how it is so easie by the only view of the separation to judge or conclude of the Schisme But the true ground why Schisme is more probably objected to the Church of England than Heresie is a false but prejudicate opinion That the Bishop of Rome is the right Patriarch of Britain That we deserted him and that the differences between us are about Patriarchall Rites all which with sundry other such like mistaken grounds are evidently cleared to be otherwise in the vindication This is all that concernes my first Chapter The rest is voluntary The next thing observable in his Survey is that Protestants confesse that they have separated themselves not only from the Roman Church but also from all other Christian Churches in the communion of the Sacraments and publick worship of God And that no cause but necessity of salvation can justifie such a separation from the crime of Schisme And it must needs seem hard to prove that it was necessary for the salvation of Protestants to make such a separation from all Churches in the World As if there had been no Christian Church in whose communion in Sacraments they could finde salvation whence it will follow that at that time there was no true Church of God upon earth For proof of the first point That Protestants have separated from all Christian Churches he produceth Calvin Chillingworth and a treatise of his own It were to be wished that Professors of Theology would not cite their testimonies upon trust where the Authours themselves may easily be had only impossibility is stronger than necessity as the spartan Boy once answered the old Senator after the Laconicall manner and that they would cite their Authors fully and faithfully not by halves without adding to or new molding their authorities according to their own fancies or interest It may seem ludicrous but it was a sad truth of a noble English Gentleman sent Ambassador into forrein parts and with him an honorable Espy under the notion of a Companion by whom he was accused at his return to have spoken such and such things at such and such times The Gentleman pleaded ingenuously for himself that it might be he had spoken some of those things or it might be all those things but never any one of them in that order nor in that sense I have said he several Suits of apparel of purple cloth of green Velvet of white and black Sattin If one should put my two purple Sleeves to my green velvet Dublet and make my Hose the one of white Sattin the other of black and then swear that it was my apparrell they who did not know me might judge me a strange man To disorder authority to contract or enlarge them to misapply them besides the scope contrary to the sense of the Author is not more discommendable than common I have seen large volumes containing some hundreds of controversies as was pretended between Protestants and Papists And among them all not above five or six that I could owne as if they desired that the whole woven Coat of Christ should be torn more insunder than it is or that they might have the honor to conquer so many fictious Monsters of their own making I have seen authorities mangled and miâ—applied just like the Ambassadors clothes so as the right Authors would hardly have been able to know them So much prejudice and partiality and an habit of alteration is able to doe like a tongue infected with Choler which makes the sweetest meates to taste bitter or like coloured glass which makes every object we see through it to appear of the same colour Wherefore I doe intreat R. C. to save himself and me and the Reader so much labor and trouble for the future by forbearing to charge the private errors or opinions of particular persons it skilleth not much whether upon the Church of England the most of which were meer strangers to our affaires and many of them died before controversies were rightly stated or truly understood for none of which the Church of England is any way obliged to be responsable And likewise by forbearing to make so many empty references to what he beleeves or pretends to have proved in some of his other books See the Author of the Protestant Religion See the distinction of fundamentals and not fundamentals See the sufficient proposer of faith See the Protestants plain confession See the Flowers of the English Church See the Epistle to King James See the prudential Ballance See the collation of Scripture To what end can this serve but either to divert us from the question we have in hand or to amuse the Reader and put him into a
truths for the preservation of unity among us and the extirpation of some growing errors Secondly He adds that the deteyning of the Cup could be no sufficient grounds of separation because Protestants doe confesse That it is an indifferent matter of it self and no just cause to seperate Communion Doth the Church of England confesse it to be an indifferent matter No nor any Protestant Church All their publick confessions doe testifie the contrary Nay more I doe not believe that any one Protestant in his right wits did ever confesse any such thing But this it is to nible at Authors and to stretch and tenter their words by consequences quite beyond their sense It may be that Luther at some time said some such thing but it was before he was a formed Protestant whilest he was half sleeping half waking Bellarmine stiles it in initio Apostasiae But after his eies were well opened he never confessed any such thing but the just contrary Suppose that Brentius saith that abstemious persons such whose nature doth abhorre wine may receive under one kinde what a pittifull argument is this drawn from a particular rare case of invincible necessity to the common and ordinary use of the Sacrament The Elephant was exempted from doing obeisance to the Lion because he had no knees But it is the height of injustice to withhold his right from one man because another cannot make use of it Suppose that Melancthon declare his own particular opinion that those Countries where Wine is not to be had should doe well to make use of honied water in the Sacrament What doth this signifie as to the cause he hath in hand whether they use some other liquor in the place of Wine or use no liquor at all Invincible necessity doth not only excuse from one kinde but from both kindes And where the Sacrament cannot be had as it ought the desire to have it sufficeth before God We read of some Christians in India where they had no Wine that they took drie Raisons and steeped them in water a whole night and used that liquor which they squeesed out of them in the place of Wine for the Sacrament It would trouble one as much in many parts of the World to finde right Bread as Wine That nourishment which Indians eat in the place of Bread being made of the roots of Plants doth differ more from our Bread made of Wheat then Cyder or Perry or honnied water doe differ from the juice of the Grape which are such many times as are able to deceive a good tast If Wine were as rare and precious in the World as right Balm which they make to be the matter of a Sacrament there were more to be said in it They themselves doe teach that it is absolutely necessary that the Sacrament be consecrated in Wine and that it be consumed by the Priest They who can procure Wine for the Priest may procure it for the People also if they will The truth is all these are but made Dragons No man ever was so abstemious but that he might taste so much Wine tempered with water as they use it as might serve for the Sacrament where the least imaginable particle conveieth Christ to the receiver as well as the whole Chalice full Neither is there any Christian Country in the World where they may not have Wine enough for this use if they please So notwithstanding any thing he saith to the contrary their dayly obtruding new Articles of Faith and their deteining the Cup in the Sacrament were just grounds of separation but not our only grounds We had twenty other grounds besides them And therefore he had little reason to say That at least the first Protestants were Schismaticks and in this respect to urge the authority of Optatus against us to prove us to be the Heirs of Schismaticks Optatus in the place by him cited speaks against the traditors with whom we have nothing common and the Donatists their own Ancestors not ours whose case is thus described there by Optatus cujus in Cathedra tenet quae ante ipsum Majorinum originem non habebat whose Chair thou possessest which had no originall before Majorinus a schismaticall Donatist This is not our case We have set up no new Chairs nor new Altars nor new Successions but continued those which were from the beginning There is a vast difference between the erecting of a Chair against a Chair or an Altar against an Altar which we have not done and the repairing of a Church or an Altar wherein it was decayed which we were obliged to doe In the next place he endeavoreth to prove by the generall Doctrine of Protestants that they differ from Papists in fundamentall points necessarie to salvation If they doe it is the worse for the Romanists In the mean time the charitie of Protestants is not to be blamed We hope better of them And for any thing he saith to the contrarie we beleeve that they doe not differ from us in fundamentalls But let us see what it is that the Protestants say Some say that Popish errors are damnable Let it be admitted many errors are damnable which are not in fundamentalls Errors which are damnable in themselves are often pardoned by the mercie of God who looks upon his Creatures with all their prejudices Others say that Popish and Protestant opinions are diametrally opposite That is certain they are not all logomachies But can there be no diametrall opposition except it be in fundamentalls There are an hundred diametrall oppositions in opinion among the Romanists themselves yet he will not confess that they differ in fundamentalls Lastly others say that the Religion of Protestants and the Religion of the Church of Rome are not all one for substance I answer first that the word substance is taken sometimes strictly for the essentialls of any thing which cannot be separated without the destruction of the subject Thus a man is said to be the same man in substance while his soul and body are united though he have lost a legg or an arme or be reduced to skin and bone And in this sense the Protestant and Popish Church and Religion are the same in substance At other times the word substance is taken more largly for all reall parts although they be separated without the destruction and sometimes with the advantage of the subject And so all the members yea even the flesh and blood and other humors are of the substance of a man So we read Thine eyes did see my substance being yet unperfect and in thy books were all my members written And in this sense the Protestant and Popish Religion are not the same in substance Secondly the word substantialls may either signifie old substantialls beleeved and practised by all Churches in all ages at all times which are contained in the Apostles Creed And thus our Religion and the Roman Religion are the same in substance Or new
the Pope Doth any man think that our Ancestors were so simple as to question whether the Body be above the Head or to hope that the Pope would concurre willingly to his own deposition This we know for certain that the Councell of Constance without the presence or concurrence of the Pope did Decree themselves to be a lawfull complete generall Councell superior to the Pope and that he was subject to their censures And deposed three Popes at a time And their acts were confirmed in the Councell of Basile To this Decree of the Councell of Constance he giveth two answers First That it is probable that the Councell meant only of doubtfull Popes But I did take away this answer in the vindication two waies First because it is contrary to the text The words of the Councell are these the Pope that is a Pope truely elected and lawfully admitted It is uncertain whether a doubtfull Pope be Pope or no is subject to a generall Councel that is a generall Councel without the presence or concurrence of the Pope such as the Councel of Constance was As well in matter of faith as of manners This is more then doubtfull titles so as he may not only be corrected but if he be incorrigible be deposed So a Councell may correct the Pope and if they please continue him or if they finde him incorrigible depose him Men are not corrected for weak and litigious titles but for faults in faith or manners Neither can they be said to be deposed who are only declared to have been usurpers Secondly I confuted this answer by the execution of the Decree The Councell did not only declare who was the right Pope which is a judiciary act and may be done by an Inferior towards his Superior but they turned out three Popes together whereof one without controversie was the right Pope And so made right to be no right for the publick good of the Church which is a badge of sovereign and legislative Authority His second answer is That this Decree was not conciliarly made and consequently not confirmed by Martine the fifth This answer was likewise taken away in the vindication First because the Popes confirmation is but a novelty never practised in the ancient Church and signifieth nothing The Pope and his Legates did subscribe in the same manner and form that other Bishops and their Legates did And that was all Secondly because Pope Martines title to the Papacy did depend meerly upon the Authority of the Decree If this Decree were not a lawfull Decree of a lawfull generall Councell and such a Councell as had power to depose the former Pope then Pope Martine was no Pope but an usurper and then his confirmation signified nothing also in that respect Last I shewed that it was conciliarly made And what the word conciliarly there signifieth out of the Acts of the Councell And that passage was not intended for a confirmation but an occasionall Speech after the end of the Councell after the Fathers were dismissed in answer to an unseasonable proposition made to the Pope by the Ambassadors of Polonia and Lituania about a seditious Book which they alleging to have been condemned by the Deputies of the Nations but not being able to affirm that it was condemned in the publick Acts of the Session the Pope answered that he approved what had been conciliarly done To all this he answereth nothing but that the word conciliariter or conciliarly signifieth rather the manner of a Councel then of a Councell Let it be so Is not the decreeing of any thing publickly in the Session the manner of the Councels Acting The Duputies of the Nations were like a Committee of Parliament who have no power to Decree though they be a Committe of the whole House but only to prepare things for the House Now suppose the King at the close of the Parliament being requested to confirm some Acts of a Committe should use the very same expression which Martine the fifth did That he would hold and observe inviolably all things determined and concluded by that Parliament Parliamentariter or Parliamentarily Doth not this evidently confirm all the Acts and conclusions of the Parliament Or what can this in reason exclude but only the Acts of the Committees To say as R. C. saith That he confirmeth only those Acts which were done with due liberation is as much as to say that he confirmeth just nothing at all How shall it be known or who shall be Judg what was done with due deliberation and what was not Neither doth it weigh any thing at all to say as he doth that the word concilium doth exclude the Deputies of the Nations without adding conciliariter for first it is a rule in Law that abundans non vitiat A word or two too much doe no hurt Secondly the Deputies of the Nations did sit and Act by the Authority of the Councell and consequently their Acts were mediatly and in some sort the Acts of the Councel Lastly whether the Decree of the Councel were confirmed or not to me seemeth all one The end of Convocating so many Bishops is to represent the consent of all those respective Churches from which they are sent and to witnesse the received belief We see by their Votes what was the received opinion of the Occidentall Church And we see otherwise suffiâ—ently what was the received opinion of the Eastern Southern and Northern Churches So as the Roman Court will not be able to finde one nationall Church of that age throughout the World to maintain their exorbitant claimes To my fourth argument drawn from the Popes challenge of all Episcopall Jurisdiction and consequently the breaking of all the lines of Apostolicall Succession except his own and to my two additionall arguments concerning the infallibility of the Popes judgment and his power over Princes he answereth nothing but that they are not defined by the Roman Church and therefore cannot be a cause of departing from her communion Neither have I indevoured to charge the crime of Schism upon the Roman Church in generall but upon the Roman Court and the violent propugners thereof whose Tenets these are I wish the Roman Church restored to its ancient splendor of an Apostolicall Church and the principall Protropatriarchate and its beginning of unity Notwithstanding the weaknesse of his answers yet he laies down this for a conclusion That whatsoever I now pretend our separation was schismatically begun And thence inferres upon a ground brought by me Quod ab initio fuit invalidum tract is temporis non convalescit That it is schismaticall still First I denie his ground the separation was not made by us but by them what we did was not schismaticall but just and necessary Secondly his inference is grossely mistaken and the rule which I brought altogether misapplyed That which was invalid from the beginning cannot become valid prescription or tract of time but it may become valid by subsequent Acts of Parties
have not separated our selves but been chased away who have only forsaken errors not Churches much lesse obstinately and least of all in essentials who would gladly be contented to winke at small faults so they would not obtrude sinfull duties upon us as a condition of their communion The same answer we give to Perkins and Zanchy cited only in the margent whose scope is far enough from going about to perswade us that we ought not to separate from the Church of Rome for which they are cited by him Rather on the contrary if they or any of them have been over rigorous towards the Church of Rome and allow it not the essence of a Church what doth that concern the Church of England Will he blame us for being more moderate Trust me these Authors were far from extenuating the errors of Popery He telleth us That they say unto us as Saint Austin said unto the Donatists If ours be Religion yours is separation They may rehearse the same words indeed but neither is Saint Austins case their case nor the Donatists case our case Sometimes they crie down our Religion as a negative Religion as faulty in the defect And now they accuse us of superstition in the excesse We approve no Church with which they communicate and we doe not Doctor Field saith that if they can prove the Roman Church to be the Church they need not use any other Argument It is most certain we all say the same But still he confoundeth the Church that is the universall Church with a Church that is a particular Church and a metaphysically true Church with a morally true Church Why doth he cite Authors so wide from that which he knoweth to be their sense In this Section there is nothing but crambe bis cocta a repetition of what he hath formerly said over and over of Protestants separating themselves from the whole Christian World in communion of Sacraments Only he addeth the authorities of Master Calvine Doctor Potter and Master Chillingworth which have already been fully answered He saith I indeavour to prove the lawfull Ordination of our first Bishops in Queen Elizabeths time by the testimony of publick Registers and confession of Father Oldcorne He knoweth better if he please that the first Protestant Bishops were not in Queen Elizabeths time but in Edward the sixths time If they were not Protestants they did them the more wrong to burn them for it The Ecclesiasticall Registers doe make their Ordination so plain that no man who will but open his eies can be in doubt of it He confesseth that Father Oldcorne did say our Registers were authenticall So must every one say or think that seeth them and every one is free to see them that will But Father Oldcorne was a prisoner and judged others by himself Yet neither his imprisonment nor his charity did make him swerve in any other point from his Roman Catholick opinions Why did he change in this more then in any of the rest Because there is no defence against a Flaile no resisting evident demonstration which doth not perswade but compell men to believe But wherefore were not these Registers shewed before King James his time They were alwaies shewed to every man that desired to see them Registers are publick Records the sight whereof can be refused to no man The Officers hand is known the Office is secured from all supposititious writings both by the Oath and by the honesty of him that keepeth the Register and by the testimony of all others who view the Records from time to time He might as well ask why a Proclamation is not shewed Which is first publickly promulged and after that affixed to the gates of the City and of the Common-Hall and all other publick places If he could have excepted against the persons either consecraters or consecrated as that there were not such persons or not so qualified or not present at that time he had had some reason for himself But Episcopall Ordination in England was too solemn and too publick an Act to be counterfeited And moreover the Proceedings were published in print to the view of the World whilest there were very many living who were eie witnesses of the Ordination And yet by his favour if there had not been so many Protestant Bishops there as there were it might have made the Ordination illegall but not invalid for which I will give him a president and a witnesse beyond exception The president is Austine the first converter of the English the witnesse Saint Gregory Et quidem in Anglorum Ecclesia c. And truely in the English Church wherein there is no other Bishop but thy self thou canst not ordein a Bishop otherwise then alone c. But when by the grace of God Bishops are ordeined throughout all places Ordination ought not to be made without three or four Bishops He asketh why Bishop Jewell or Bishop Horne did not allege these Registers when they were charged by Doctor Harding and Doctor Stapleton to be no consecrated Bishops I might even as well ask him when he citeth an authority out of Saint Austin why such or such an Author that writ before him upon that Subject did not cite it and thereupon conclude that it was counterfeit An argument from authority negatively is worth nothing Perhaps for I can but guesse untill he cite the places Doctor Stapleton or Harding did not except against the number or qualification of the Ordeiners but against the matter or form of their Episcopal Ordination Perhaps judging them to be Hereticks they thought they had lost their character which yet he himself will acknowledg to be indeleble Perhaps the accusation was general against all Protestants and they gave a general answer Perhaps they were better versed in the Schools then in Records or lastly perhaps or indeed without perhaps they insisted upon the illegality of their ordination in respect of the Laws of England not upon the invalidity of it as shall clearly appear in my next answer In all these cases there was no occasion to allege the Registers Why were they not shewed saith he when Bishop Bonner excepted against the said Horne at the barre What need had the Bishops to desire that their ordination should be judged sufficient by Parliament eight yeers after Now let him take one answer for all There was an Act passed for authorizing the Book of Common-Prayer and the Book of Ordination as an appendix to it to be used throughout England in the reign of Edward the sixth This Act was repealed in the time of Queen Mary and afterwards revived by Queen Elizabeth as to the Book of Common Prayer intending but not expresly mentioning the Book of Ordination which was an appendix to it So it was restored again either expresly under the name of the Book of Common Prayer as containing the publick Prayers of the Church for that occasion or at least implicitly as being printed in the Book of
Christian world much less do they arrogate to themselves alone the name of the true Church as the Romanists do but they content themselves to be part of the Catholick Church That they have any differences among them either in doctrine or discipline it is the fault of the Court of Rome which would not give way to an uniforme reformation of the Westerne Church But that their controversies are neither so many nor of any such moment as he imagineth the Harmony of Confessions published in print will demonstrate to all the world So far is he wide from the truth that they have no more unity then a body composed of Turks Jewes Hereticks and Christians who have neither the same body nor the same spirit nor the same hope of their calling nor the same Lord nor the same faith nor the same baptism nor the same God to their Father But he faith our faith consisteth in unknown Fundamentals which is a meer shâ—ft until we exhibite a list of such points We need not the Apostles have done it to our hands in the Creed and the Primitive Church hath ordained that no more should be exacted of any of Turks or Jewes in point of faith when they were converted from Paganisme or Jewisme to Christianity Sect. 9. In the eighth chapter I proved that the Pope and the Court of Rome were most guilty of the Schisme and shall not need to repeat or fortifie any thing that which he opposeth being of so little consequence To the first argument he denieth that the Church of Rome is but a sister or a mother and not a Mistris to other Churches It is their saying it and our denying it saith he till they have proved what they affirme To gratifie him I will do it though it be needless Let him consult with St. Bernard in his fourth Book of consideration to his most loving friend Eugenius the Pope so he stiles him Amantissime Eugeni If they would listen to St. Bernards honest advice it would tend much to the peace of Christendome Si auderem dicere If I durst say it these are the pastures of devils rather then of sheep And Exi de Hur Caldeorum or Go out of this Hur of the Caldeans Rome It will not repent thee of thy banishment to have changed the City for the world But to satisfie his demand Thus that Father Consideres ante omnia sanctam Romanam Ecclesiam cui Deo auctore praees Ecclesiarum matrem esse non Dominam te vero non Dominum Episcoporum sed unum ex ipsis Above all things consider that the holy Roman Church over which thou art placed by God is a Mother of other Churches not a Lady or Mistris and thou thy self art not a Master of other Bishops but one of them Secondly He denieth that the Church of Rome obtrudeth any new Creeds whereas I accused not the Church of Rome for it but the Court of Rome for proof produced the Bull of Pius the fourth in the point as it is set down at the end of the Councel of Trent wherein he sets forth a new form of confession of faith containing many new Articles which he enjoyneth all the Clergy and all Religious persons to swear unto and that they will teach it to all others under their charge that there may be an uniforme confession of faith among Christians Extra quam non est salus without which there is no salvation If he deny this authority he and I are nearer an union then the Court of Rome and he My third argument was because they maintaine the Pope in his rebellion against a general Councel To this argument he answers not a word so as I am confirmed more and more in my suspition that notwithstanding all his specious pretences for the Papacy he himself is one of those who prefer the Councel before the Pope and attribute to the Pope only an Exordium unitatis But he spareth me not upon the by telling the Reader that I lay the axe not to the roote of Schisme but to mine own legs bids me good night my wits are in the dark If it were so that I should steal a nap it is neither fellony nor treason Aliquando bonus dormit at Homerus But what is it that raiseth this great wind of words forsooth because I say that the Papacy qua talis as it is now maintained by many with Superiority above General Councels c. is the cause either procteant or conservant or both of all or the most part of the Schisms in Christendome To say as it is maintained by many doth imply that it is not so maintained by all and therefore not the Papacy qua talis for so Catholicks have not the least difference among them He might as well tell us that wherein they all agree they have no difference But do not some Roman Catholicks subject the Pope to a General Councel and other subject a General Councel to the Pope Do not the greater part of them both for number dignity and power who sit at the sterne who hold the bridle that he spoke of even now in their hands to govern the Church subject a General Councel to the Pope And then might not I say well the Papacy qua talis my conclusion was not against the Church of Rome in general but against the Pope and Court of Rome that they were guilty of Schism And now to let him see that I did not sleep I will reduce mine argument into forme without a qua talis They who subject a General Councel which is the highest Tribunal of Christians to the Pope are guilty of Schisme but the Pope and Court of Rome with all their maintainers that is the much greater part of their writers do subject a General Councel to the Pope therefore they are guilty of Schism Of the same nature is his exception to my fourth charge They who take away the line of Apostolical succession throughout the world except in the See of Rome who make all Episcopal Jurisdiction to flow from the Pope of Rome and to be founded in his Lawes to be imparted to other Bishops as the Popes Vicars and Coadjutors assumed by them into part of their charge are Schismaticks but the Pope and Court of Rome and their maintainers do thus To which his onely answer is that this is a more grosse and false imputation then any of the rest Because it is not their general tenet neither did I urge it against them all in general But because he takes no notice of these tenets but as private opinions If you will dispute against private opinions cite your Authors and argue against them not the Church Let him know that these are the most common most current opinions of their writers Of the former Bellarmine saith that it is almost de fide a point of faith He saith that the Councel of Florence seemed to have defined it though not so expresly and that the Councel of Lateran
hath defined it most expresly And the words of that Councel seem to import no less that it is most manifest that the Bishop of Rome hath authority over all Councels Tanquam super omnia Consilia authoritatem habentem And for the latter opinion Bellarmine declares it to be most true quae sententia est verissima cites great Authors for it and saith that it seemeth to have been the opinion of the old Schoolmen That Bishops do derive all their Iurisdiction from the Pope as all the vertue of the members is derived from the head or as all the vertue of the branches springs from the root or as the water in the stream flowes from the fountain or as the light of the beams is from the Sun This is high enough Sect. 10. I answered that we hold communion with thrice so many Christians as they do He replyeth that if by Christians I mean those who lay claim to the name of Christ he neither denies my answer nor envies me my multitude for Manichees Gnosticks Carpocratians Arrians Nestorians Eutychians c. without number do all usurpe the honour of this title adding that he doth most faithfully protest he doth not think I have any solid reason to refuse communion to the worst of them O God how is it possible that prejudice and partiality or an habit of alteration should make Christians and Pastours of Christs flock to swerve so far not only from truth and charity but from all candour and ingenuity Wherein can he or all the world charge the Church of England or the Church of Greece or indeed any of the Easterne Southerne or Northerne Christians with any of these Heresies It is true some few Easterne Christians in comparison of those innumerable multitudes are called Nestorians and some others by reason of some unusual expressions suspected of Eutychianisme but both most wrongfully Is this the requital that he makes to so many of these poor Christians for maintaining their Religion inviolated so many ages under Mahumetan Princes Yet Michael the Archangel when he disputed with the devil about the body of Moses durst not bring a â—ailing accusation against him but said the Lord rebuke thee The best is we are either wheat or chaff of the Lords ffoare but their tongues must not winnow us Manes a mad-man as his name signifies feigned himself to be Christ chose twelve Apostles and sent them abroad to preach his errours whose disciples were called Manichees they made two Gods one of good called light another of evil called darkness which evil God did make impure creatures of the more faeeulent parts of the matter he created the world he made the old testament Hereupon they held flesh and wine to be impure and marriage to be unlawful and used execrable purifications of the creatures They taught that the soul was the substance of God that war was unlawful that bruite beasts had as much reason as men that Christ was not true man nor came out of the wombe of the Virgin but was a phantasme that Iohn Baptist was damned for doubting of Christ that there was no last Judgement that sins were inevitable many of which errours they sucked from the Gnosticks and Carpocratians The Nestorians divided the person of Christ and the Eutychians confounded his natures what is this to us or any of those Churches which we defend we accurse all their errors If he be not more careful in making his charge he will soon forfeit the stock of his credit He ingageth himself that if I can shew him but one Church which never changed the Doctrine which their Fathers taught them as received from the Apostles which is not in communion with the Roman Church he will be of that ones communion I wish he may make good his word I shew him not only one but all the Easterne Southerne Northerne and I hope Westerne Churches who never changed their Creed which comprehends all these necessary points of saving truth which they received from their Ancestors by an uninterrupted Line of Succession from the Apostles As for Opinions or Truths of an inferiour nature there is no Church of them all that hath changed more from their Ancestours even in these very controversies that are between them and us then the Church of Rome For the clear proof whereof I refer him to Doctor Fields appendix to his third book of the Church the first part of his appendix to four books at the latter end of the first Chapter I pleaded that the Councell of Trent was not general I had reason The conditions of a generall councell recited by Bellarmine are that the summons be generall there none were summoned but onely out of the western Church That the four Protopatriarchs be present by themselves or their deputies there was not one of them present That some be present from the greater part of all Christian Provinces there were none out â—f three parts of foure of the Christian world He saith the other Patriarchs were Hereticks Though it were true yet until they were lawfully heard condemned in a general Councel or refused to come to their triall and were condemned for their obstinacy they ought to have been summoned yea of all others they especially ought to have been summoned But where were they heard or tried or condemned of heresy by any Councel or person that had Jurisdiction over them Others of his fellows will be contented to accuse them of Schisme and not pronounce them condemned hereticks Guido the Carmelite is over partiall and tâ—merarious in accusing them without ground as some of his owne party do confesse and vindicate them And Alphonsus á castro taketh his information upon trust from him The plaine truth is their onely crime is that they will not submit to the Popes spirituall Monarchy and so were no fit company for an Italian Councell His demand Is not a Parliament the generall representative of the nation unlesse every Lord though a knowne and condemned Rebell be summoned or unlesse every member that hath a right to sit there be present is altogether impertinent Neither hath the Pope that power over a generall Councell that the king hath over the Parliament Neither are the Protopatriarchs knowne condemned Rebels Neither is this the case whether the necessary or neglective absence of some particular members but whether the absence of whole Provinces and the much greater part of the Provinces of Christendome for want of due summons do disable a Councell from being a generall representative of the whole Christian world And as it is impertinent so it makes altogether against himselfe Never was there a session of a nationall Parliament in England wherein so few members were present as were in the pretended generall Councell of Trent at the deciding of the most weighty controversy concerning the rule of Faith Never was there lawfull Parliament in England wherein there were more Knights and Burgesses out of one Province then out of all the rest of