feast of Easter Supremacy that they complained when Phocas conferred it vppon Boniface It is an incredible happines which you ascribe to the Roman Church that it neuer fell into heresy when as the n 2. Thes 2.7 mystery of iniquity began to worke euen in the age of the Apostles Then was o Iob. Mar. belg pag 441. Petrarch too blame for calling Rome the Whore of Babylon and p Hist pag. 535. Mathew Paris for saying she was a shamelesse common and prostituted whore Did not Marcellinus commit Idolatry in offering sacrifice to Iupiter Did not Pope Liberius fall into Arianisme when Athanasius stood vppon his right feete I am sure you haue heard that Honorius the first was a Monotholite holding that Christ had but one will and one nature Iab The q Pag. 102. sincerity of doctrine as Ruffinus noteth is the cause that the Church of Rome did neuer add any worde or sillable to the Creede but kept the same intire without addition Ma. Then you graunt as much as we craue that those principall Iewells which the Catholique Church prizest most came not out of Roomes Treasury Me thincks you should blush when you name Ruffinus for how haue you degenerated from that auncient Rome who haue not bene ashamed to add not only sillables but more then eleuen articles to the Apostolicall Creede Reckon them vppon your fingers and you shall neither finde the Popes Supremacy nor Purgatory c. which you haue added as poyntes of like necessity to be beleiued Nick. Then haue they litle affinity with the true Church for r Lett. to T. H. pag. 68. she taketh not vppon her to controll the holy Scripture her mother from whome she drew her first breath She openeth not her mouth till her Mother haue deliuered her minde she commeth not of her owne head with a sleeuelesse arrant Iab You ſ Pag 104. describe the Spouse of Christ as a mannerly young mayd brought vp in Luthers schoole You deserue a t Pag. 106. coate with foure sleeues for this Metaphor which maketh the Church Scripture Daughter Nick. Are these the u Praef. Cumaean sopps you promised take heede least you pluck an old house ouer your eares Such liueries best befitt your indigent followers Let him weare your fooles-coate with fower sleeues that is free of your company You may cutt as large a thonge as you list of your owne hide Ma. The Metaphor is sacred and doth not deserue so ridiculous a weede S. Peter vseth it saying that we are borne a newe not of mortall seede but of immortall x 1. Pet. 1.23 Rom. 10.17 by the worde of God I haue begotten you saith S. Paul y 1. Cor. 4.15 by the Ghospell The Church being begotten and gathered by the worde must not stand vppon tearmes of seniority with her progenitor Iab The z Pag. 107. Church of the old testament was some thousand yeares before scripture the Church of the newe testament did flourish many yeares before any Ghospel was written S. Irenaeus a Pag. 106. 107 writeth that many Churches in his time had neuer read any worde of Scripture yet did they flourish by keeping the Tradition of Christian doctrine in their heartes Ma. A man might pose you should he demaund what proofe you haue for your Negatiue that there were no sacred bookes before those fiue written by Moses seeing he mentioneth a b Num. 21.14 Booke of the warres of the Lord and the c Ioshua 10.13 Booke of the Iust what can you shewe to the contrary why those bookes might not be written by some of the Patriarches Doth not St. d Verse 14. Iude alleadge a testimony out of the prophecy of Enoch Min. Let vs not contend with him for this What if we graunt that the vnwritten worde was more auncient the difference was not in the matter but in the manner It was vnto them being ratifyed by the Prophets and confirmed by extraordinary reuelations in the nature of a written worde And when that worde was expressed in visible Caracters Traditions e Mat. 15.3 were of no longer vse As for the Ghospell it was written before the Race of eye-witnesses was extinct what they preached the same things they registred So that it was one and the f Proliteris spiritus Sancti gratiam se illis daturum repromisit Chrisost bom 1. in Mat. same worde by which the Church in all ages hath bene gathered For as g Euseb l. 3. 20. Irenaeus saith of Polycarpus he deliuered those things which he had learned of them who had seene the worde of life 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 wholy agreable to that which is written The same Father h Irenaeus l. 3. c. 1 also informes vs that the Apostles left in writing to the Church the same Ghospell which they had formerly preached by worde of mouth that it might be a foundation and pillar of our faith yea of that true and liuely saith which the Church hath receiued from them and doth prescribe to her Children As they preached saith S. Hierom. for the confirmation of faith so was it necessary they should write for the confusion of Heretiques Contra insidiosos errores saith S. i In Epist Ioh. 1. tract 2. Augustine voluit Deus ponere firmamentum in Scripturis Seeing then the ayme of Gods spirit in the deliuery of diuine Scripture which is k 2. Tim. 3.15 able to make a man wise vnto Saluation was as Theophilact writeth to preuent haereses pullulaturas what doe they but open a gappe for all heresyes which giue waye to vnwritten vncertayne and vnnecessary Traditions Considera quam sit extremae dementiae saith S. l Hom. 1. in Mat. Chrisostome nos qui primam illam dignitatem perdidimus ne secundo remedio vti velle ad salutem sed coelestia scripta quasi frustrà ac vanè posita dispicere Consider what extreme m Vide Euseb lib. 3. cap. 33. de Papiae Paradoxis traditione fulcitis madnesse it is that wee who haue lost that first dignity of purity should refuse to vse the second remedy for our Saluation by contemning those heauenly writings as if they were giuen in vaine and for no vse Thus in stead of the folly which you obiect S. Chrisostome requites you with the note of no lesse then extreme madnesse Iab Where is the perpetuall n Pag. 104. 105. Virginity of the B. Mother after the sacred birth of the Sonne of God written in the Scripture What is it but à perpetuall tradition of Gods Church S. Augustine saith it cannot be clearly proued out of Scripture that Heretiques returning to the Church should not be rebaptized and yet the Church hath forbidden the same Shall we tearme this prohibition sleeuelesse Ma. The perpetuall Virginity of the blessed Mother is no matter of saluation whether we beleiue it or no. Yet are we of that opinion because as we read not any thing to the
his owne Ma. This shift is fetch'd beyond the circumference of all probable Appararance Hee speakes in the e In Pref. lâ—b Salomonis present not in the preterperfect tense of the Church then being Legit ECCLESIA sed eos inter Canonicas Scripturas non recipit Yea by way of toleration he deliuers his minde permissiuely thus Legat Ecclesia ad edificationem plebis yet with this Limitation non ad authoritatem dogmatum Ecclesiasticorum confirmandam f De Ciuit. Dei lib. 18. cap. 38. Yea S. Augustine himselfe confesseth that one and the same man may write some thinges historica diligentia which though proceeding from himselfe may serue ad vbertatem cognitionis and other things ex inspiratione diuina which must be receiued ad authoritatem religionis Iab Those g Pag. 43. wordes come short of your summe to proue your Protestant distinction of the Canon of Manners and Canon of faith Ma. I grant Saint Hieromes sentence doth not deliuer these wordes in so many explicite sillables yet doth it necessarily imply as much in the implicite sence The Church readeth them for the edification of the people therefore they are in the Canon of Manners and serue to the bettering of knowledge The Church receiueth them not amongest the Canonicall Scriptures Therefore they are not in the Canon of faith as tending to th' authoritie of Religion Iab Euerie booke h Ibid. that may bee read for edification in the Church may not bee termed a rule of Manners What is iust with the rule of Manners is certainly good But actions aacording to these bookes wee speake of the Knight granteth may bee wicked For example to kill himselfe is a thing vnlawfull yet it is conformable to those actions that he saith are praysed in the Macchabees How then can they bee the Canon and Rule of Manners Min. Besides the Primarie and Diuine Canon of Manners properly so called I meane the Canonicall Scripture which is absolutely to bee receiued as wholy authenticall by and in it selfe there is also a Subordinate Ecclesiasticall rule which by vertue of Concordance is so farre to bee admitted for a rule as it is consonant to the first Thus the Macchabees from i So we call that awedge of Gold wherein there is some drosse the best and greatest part which is certainly good may deriuatiuely receiue the Denomination of the Canon of Manners albeit some little portion thereof be not leuelled and squared according to the first vnerrable squire This Deuiation though it exclude not the reading of the rest which may serue as a Subsidiarie promoter of edification yet can it not but debarre the whole from the Supremacie of k In Apocriphis etsi inuenitur aliqua veritas tamen propter multa falsa nulla est Canonica authoritas Aug. de Ciuit. Dei lib. 15. cap. 23. Canonicall esteeme Ma. Sir It is your courtesie thus to explane your selfe Yet vnder correction you doe not well to flie after the Doctors Lure It is sufficient for you that Saint l A Diuo Hieronimo extra Canonicos libros supputantur inter Apocripha locantur c. Ad Hieronimi limaÌ„ reducenda sunt tam verba Conciliorum quam Doctorum Caietan ad fin comment in l. hist Vet. Test Hieromes vndeniable testimonie hath explaned Saint Augustines Si Sobriè by which though the toleration of the Macchabees bee permitted yet the Canonization is vtterly m Maximè propter istos Martyres Machabaeos disanulled It belongeth to his taske to prooue them to bee of the Diuine Canon which hee shall more easily attempt then accomplish seeing Saint Augustine himselfe confesseth that the Ancient Iewes vtriusque tabulae custodes did not receiue them as they did the Law the Prophets and the Psalmes So that it will bee a point of no small difficultie without some Night-Ghosts reuelation to shew by what warrant or meanes the Church of Christ was after moued to adopt them Iab I could n Pag. 58. ioyne with Saint Augustine other Fathers no lesse ancient then hee canonizing the same bookes but his testimonie may suffice alone which bringeth with it the authoritie of the Church in his dayes Nick. Alas poore Doctor Bragge this is but a coppie of your countenance you will make but a mean liuing by singing Solus cum Solo I trowe Master Vicar wil bee able to vie fathers as fast as you Your Mastershippe may perhaps finde a Counter for the Post but you dare not for your eares bee in at the Payre Ma. Verily I thinke Clichtoueus was more then halfe a Prophet hee doth so visibly deschipher the guise of our Disputant as if hee were here present o Iudocus Clictoueus in Epist ad Franciscum Molinum Alij sunt saith hee qui non nisi suo credunt consilio quod semel asseruerunt volunt oraculo solidius vt haberi Alij autem authoritatula vna aut vnius scribentis dicto vt equus capistro retinentur caeteros aspernaentur qui ea de re aut dixerunt aut scripserunt Min. Sir it is faire play to till this gamester on by reseruing the best card till the last tricke The Ancient records of the Church shall be produced when they shall strike all dead for the present I thinke I shall sufficiently discharge my part if I make good the Knights argument out of S. Augustines ground to ratifie our conclusion Ma. Herein shall you not bestow your paines amisse Min. Then thus p Counters pa. 41 In Holy Canonicall Scripture there is no Diuine precept or permission to bee found that either to gaine Immortalitie or to escape any peril we may q Placuit vt hi qui per ferrum aut praecipitium sibi ipsis mortem inferunt nulla pro illis in oblatione commemoratio fiat Concil Bracaren 1. ca. 34 make away with our selues But Razias mentioned in the Macchabees is commended for a fact of this kind Ergo r His non adhibetur fides in quibus etiam contra fidem librorum Canonicorum quaedam leguntur Aug. de Ciuit. Dei lib. 18. cap. 38 they are not Canonicall Iab It was Å¿ Pag. 49. farre from Saint Augustines grauitie to read the Macchabees with so little Sobrietie as to thinke that Razias was praysed for killing himselfe t Pag. 51. writing against the Circumcellians hee doth often teach and largely prooue that Razias was not commendable for that fact which the Scripture did report not prayse Min. I will not presse you with tautologies neyther would I willingly bring Lyram ad Asinum vnlesse you were a better Musitian Lyraes record is extant that u Lyra in 2. Mach. cap. 14 the Scripture of that Booke which is receiued by the Church to be read for the Information of Manners doth not seeme to reprooue Razias but rather to commend him for killing himselfe c. Iab This is x Pag. 51. false and against the minde of Saint Augustine who
denies it expressely y Pag. 49 neyther is Lyraes Doctrine to the purpose Min. If you grant that Saint Augustine was one of the principall Doctors of the Church then listen a while to Ludouicus Viualdus z De veritate cōtritiouis fol. 52. De Razia saith he nobilissimo milite legimus in 2. lib. Mach c. quòd scipsum a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 animose ac magnifice in mortem dederit cuius mors commendatur ac landibus extollitur A DOCTORIBVS CATHOLICIS eo quod ob reuerentiam Dei atque ob salutem boni publici consummata fuerit We read of Razias c. Whose death is commended and highly extolled by the CATHOLIQVE DOCTORS Ma. Was this the opinion of Catholique Doctors in Viualdus his age then it seemes Saint Augustine was either not well vnderstood or not reputed in that ranke or that those Doctors haue since changed their mindes Howsoeuer the Minor viz. that Razias is commended for that fact hath the warrant of the Catholique Doctors as also of Ludouicus and Lyra maugre the spurning of your Wilde Asses b Pag. 62 Colt Therefore the conclusion that the Macchabees are not Canonicall must by vertue of Augustines ground bee returned with the c Pag. 46. Goose and Woodcock vnto your owne keeping Nick. Saint d Ibid. Augustines Eagle hath alreadie pick't out their eyes and put them to flight they beginne to droop and hang the wings so that they will haue little maw to shew their heads any more on this Coast Iab Is e Pag. 58 it not credible that some fathers who denie these bookes were ignorant of the Churches warrant rather then Saint Aug. so rash and presumptuous as to canonize them without it Ma. Lord what shift the Doctor makes to get loose his strugling makes mee remember the complaint of an f Laurent Valla de volup l. 1. elegant writer which may well beseeme Master Rachils eares Quid facias prauis ingenijs quae tergiuer santur manifestis rationibus repugnant nec se à veritate capi sinunt Min. Nay on my word hee begins to deale more plainly then I expected For whereas before he did set Saint Hierome and Sant Augustine at oddes making no more account of Caietans pearles then ordinary pebbles it is to be attributed to the chollericke fit wherewith he was ouertaken But now vpon better and more mature deliberation hee speakes by the book and tels vs that some Fathers deny these books Yet heerein he is not well aduised in that to free S Augustine from rashnesse and presumption hee sticks not to charge the rest with ignorance Ma. In very deede Doctor you are an vngratious child not worthy of your Mothers blessing Wil you make the Fathers of your Church ignorant in the warrant of your Church Shall they bee admitted to teach others in doubtfull controuersies of faith who are themselues to seeke in the Canon of Hagiographicall Scripture which is the ground of faith I cannot thinke that if the foure first generall Councels had receiued these books into the Canon they would haue beene eyther so ignorant or so rash and presumptuous as to haue disallowed them Iab Why g Pag. 50. should not the Bookes of Machabees be sacred though they prayse Razias for this fact as well as the Booke of Iudges where Sampson is praysed who did the like If this be Saint Augustines sentence which the Knight cites out h Ibid. of Lyra that hee did that fact by speciall instinct of the Holy Ghost who doth not see that your argument to proue the Machabees not to be Scripture is not worth a rush Min. Whether Saint Augustine were of this mind or no the Knight referred it to Lyraes report who there relates as he i Counters p. 45 sayth eyther the verie words or the receiued sence The Knight doth not peremptorily take vpon him to iustifie the words to haue proceeded from Augustines pen hee only presumed so farre vpon the Readers patience as to write out what Lyra there wrote without any distinction of Character touching the general opinion of the commendation of Razias his fact wherein as Lyra k Lyra in 2. Mach. cap. 14 speakes some thought Saint Augustine did beare a part Nick. Whether it were Augustines assertion or Lyraes relation it was sufficient to proue the Minor viz. That Razias his murther was there praysed But how will you answer the like of Sampson which Iabal bringeth out of the Booke of Iudges this maie seeme to inferre a secret addition to Augustine his ground Where hee sayth No Canonicall Booke doth commend or praise killing ones selfe Iabal by way of supposition annexeth this clause viz. without speciall instinct of the Holy Ghost Ma. Master Vicar you thinke Beggars haue no Lice VVho would haue looked for this from the Groome It is fit you should stop this gap Min. Had Razias killed himselfe by that speciall instinct then would not Saint Augustine haue ventured to censure this fact as worthie reproofe but as you say he proues against the Circumcellians that Razias was l Pag. 51. not commendable for that fact which the Scripture did report not praise Besides the text ascribes it to his own choice saying Eligens potius nobiliter mori that he chose rather to die m 2. Mach cap. 14. vers 42. nobly Thomas Aquinas also frees the spirit from that motion in this verdit Quidam saith hee seipsos n Secund. 2 Quaest 64. art 5. ad Quint. interfecerunt aestimantes se fortiter agere de quorum numero Razias fuit non tamen est vera fortitudo sed magis quaedam mollities animi Thus doth hee brand it as an aberration from true fortitude which defect is not incident to that spirit which leades into all truth Ma. You may spare your paines for anie further proofe the Doctor I thinke is of your minde in this It pleased him by occasion of that report which the Knight laid vpon Lyraes penne touching some mens construction of Augustines sence and Razias his fact to play the Questionist and to make a doubt of that wherein it seemes by his silence hee holds himselfe now satisfied Nick. Then cannot the Booke of Machabees bee sacred which both by euidence of the text and th' assent of the Catholique Doctors doth prayse Razias for that whch true fortitude doth disclaime and Canonicall Scripture disallow Iab Truly Saint Augustine o Pag. 52. doth so often clearly and peremptorily auouch the Charter of the Machabees which confirmeth Purgatorie to bee sacred that I wonder any man that hath read his workes wil vndertake to proue the contrarie When he makes the Catalogue of Canonicall Bookes doth not he ranke these with the rest Did hee not subscribe to the Councell of Carthage where those Bookes were canonized Ma. This is that which the Knight did wisely foresee and cautelously labour to preuent Hee feared least his aduersarie might be ouer-swayed
with the loathsome staines of Heathenish Idolatry If words will carry it wee will roll in our figures as well as you Iab Oh what x Pag. 95. glorious Fathers and Doctors could I name famous in former ages for sanctity and learning that submitted their iudgements to the sayings of the Church Ma. O what a glorious Church were your Antichristian Synagogue did it not dissent from that primitiue purity of doctrine whereunto those famous Doctors and holy Fathers did subscribe then were it insolent madnesse in any to reiect her authority Iab Little y Pag. 96. Iudgement or piety doe you shew in your iest at our Ladies A. B. C as if the authority of the Church were not the Alphabet and Christ-Crosse row in which all Christians ought and all ancient Christians did learne to read and beleeue the Scriptures S. Augustine the Phoenix of wits the Mirrour of learning did hee not learne in this booke Truly saith he I would not belieue the Gospell did not the Churches authority mooue mee vnto it Min. Sooner shal you perswade vs that a foule noysome Stye is a faire princely pallace then that your Romish Seminary is that Church of which S. Augustine spake And yet must that holy Father bee z Non disputas ad idem rightly vnderstood He spekes there of his Introduction to the faith not of the Foundation thereof Being before a Manichy he could not of himselfe haue found the way out of the darknesse of that blind heresy vnlesse the Catholique Church had lent him her hand to conduct him to those Christall streames by the a Ecclesia proposuit Euangelium Euangeliu composuit fidem vertue whereof his eyes were opened and his mynd enlightened He had beene like enough to haue passed by that Liuing fountaine without regard had not their b Causa sine qua non direction who had made triall of the soueraignty therof persuaded him to make his repayre thither for the like successe Wherefore he should haue bene very vngrateful for so irrequitable a benefit had he concealed the meanes whereby that his so great happines was so luckily occasioned What good he receyued from the Church he freely acknowledgeth yet is he not so vniust as to make his requital with the Scriptures c Non dicit Nisi me Ecclesiae authoritas Moueret sed Commoueret wronge Yea so farre is he from subiecting those infallible Oracles to the Iudgement of Men that in the fourth Chapter of the same d Aug. Cont. Epist funda booke he challengeth the Manichyes to produce Scripture for their opinionatiue error with protestation that he would then forsake the name of the Church the Consent of people and Nations and returne vnto them So that howsoeuer the authority of the Church was an allectiue inducement to drawe him to the Ghospell yet was the Ghospell a farre more potent instrument in the founding and setling of the spirituall edifice of his faith vppon the solidity whereof he did principally and most confidently depend Ma. If it had not bene for the tydings of the little e 2. Reg. 5.3 Mayd Naaman had not gone to the Prophet in Samaria by whose praescript he was healed Shall we therefore saye that she had any hand in the curing of his leprosy No doubt her courtesie was not forgotten but the mayne homage and rewarde was offered to the man of God Had it not bene for the f Ioh. 4.42 Woman the Samaritans had not come vnto Christ but they heard him speake before they knew him to be Christ then loe they beleiued not because of her wordes but because themselues had heard him Iab The g Pag 57. Ladies of your Church learne forsooth of the spirit they trust to ipse dixit who will teach them which is the Scripture They are the sheepe of Christ and knowe his voice from that of strangers Theise are your Ministers faire promises Yet I dare giue them my worde though they haue the best spirit that euer possessed any man of your Church notwithstanding they maie erre damnably mistacke Scripture thinck that to be true translation which is indeed erroneous I see h Pag. 98. no remedy for them if they meane to be saued from the Deluge of errours but to fly to the Arke of Noe printed at Venice Your sheepe must learne in an hebrew Grammar to vnderstand their Pastors they must nibble on those rootes of Iury wherewith it would be great pitty your rare Creatures should be troubled Min. As touching our translations of the Bible though they admit a variety of style and phrase yet they concurre in a Sympathizing vnity of matter and sence They all accord in one issue without contradiction they all direct by one and the same waye to one and the same end so that the most vnlearned if he haue not a desire to goe astray cannot tread amisse There being but one choice of truth proposed there is hardly any possibility of being deceiued The Ladyes are not ignorant with what princely Cost and Care that Worke hath bene lately reuised by such graue learned and industrious persons who for knowledge in the originall tongues were best esteemed and for their sincerity least to be suspected Wherefore this hauing past the test of strictest discusse being allowed by the Church and vncontrolled by the most prying and Censorious aduersarie they are assured of the infallible truth thereof By the sweetnes of the fruite they euidently see that it sprang from a sound Roote by the illumination of the i 1. Ioh. 2.20 spirit which leadeth into all trueth by the ministry of the worde of God ratifyed with the k In Euangelijs omnis veritas omnis manifestatio veritatis Origen agreement and explaned with the perspicuous reasons of the Scripture it selfe by the efficacy thereof in captiuating their vnderstandings vnto the diuine will and their carnall affections to the regiment of a supernaturall lawe by often reading which begetteth experience and by hearty prayer which hath a promise of effectuating their zealous desires they are infallibly sure that their translation is true and their vnderstanding agreable to the rule of faith Moreouer the principles of faith with are absolutely and necessarily to be knowne beleiued and practized of all men are there blazed with such a l Aug de doct chris l. 2. c. 9. radiant lustre that without affected ignorance they are obuious to euery eye Though perhaps the genuine interpretation of some places of lesse consequence be sometymes mistaken yet is not the foundation raced so that their error is neither pernicious nor damnable Ma. If our Ladyes thus furnished in their mother tongue hauing no recourse to the hebrew text be in such danger of errour in what a pittifull plight are those creatures who are tyed to their vulgar latin translation which they vnderstand not How shall they trye the spirits of their teachers hauing so crooked a rule which they know not how to
c Pag. 29. boldly suruey the Knights Hell or Letter against Purgatorie The d Pref. Iudicious Reader will not wonder that your rude hammering with heauie reproaches on the Rocke of truth doth fetch out some liuely sparks of iust disdaine Nick. What! contemptible aduersaries e Quod efficit tale magis tale scolding feminine Antagonists rude hammering Iust disdaine so blunt at the first dash are these your Doway salutations T is well Master Maior we haue your companie to keepe the peace Out of doubt the Doctor hath pissed on a nettle his Nurse was too blame she should haue giuen him more stamp'd Grunsill in his milke hee is so exceedingly troubled with the fret Ma. Surely Sir with your fauour I see no such reason for your contemptuous disdaine If you stand vpon your Schollershippe I dare say our Vicar hath gone as long to Schoole If vpon your place I would you should know I am not the meanest man in my Corporation Or if the opinion of your wit haue blowne vp the emptie bladder of this your swolne conceit here is honest Nick a boone Lad one that f Nouit is lepidas audire et reddere voces knowes how to take and returne a iest as well as the best youth in the Parish I dare vndertake hee shall hold you play to the last cast alwaies prouided that there doe no g Pref. smoakie mists of personall Scoffes against the Knight his Master vampe from your marish mouth for then hee will bee as hot as a toste you shall find hee will carrie no coales if once you touch his copie-hold Min. Then shall we not need to decline this suruey h Singulis pro persona dignitate orationem assignauinius th'opponent being thus fitted ad omnia quare whether he be material facete or verbal he shal be met withall vpon equall termes with his owne weapons in his owne kind Wherefore Domine IABAL rem aggredere what i pag. 29. Folly and Falshood can you discouer in the Knights Letter to T. H Iab If k pag. 30. lying killeth the soule what are the Knights leaues but a dead letter wherein there are grosse and inexcusable corruptions of the most learned of the Ancient Fathers concerning a point of highest importance to wit the Canonicall authoritie of the Booke of Macchabees where Purgatorie and other points of Catholike Doctrine which you peremptorily denie are directly proued Ma. I cannot blame you for so high esteeming the Booke of Macchabees If that Lock bee once cut off your strength for the maintenance of Purgatorie will soone faile If that Cesterne yeeld you no water your tongue will cleaue to the roofe of your mouth for want of that moysture which now makes it so glibbe your Prayer for the dead will bee then soone put to silence and enforced to begge Patronage from the Legends Well I doubt not but you wil be driuen from that Holde before this combate be at an end In the meane season you may doe well to acquaint vs with the grosse and inexcusable corruptions wherewith you charge the Knights Letter as iniurious to the most learned of the Ancient Fathers Iab His l Pag. 34. Letter to proue that the Machabees were Canonicall in Saint Aug. Iudgment saith in this sort It is not our surmise that Saint Augustine seemeth to signifie so much who elsewhere to wit in the Booke De Mirabilibus sacrae Scripturae doth plainly and determinately saie That they are not of the diuine Canon Ma. Nay good Doctor let vs haue faire play Shew mee where hee endeauours to proue that the Macchabees were Canonicall and we wil be easily intreated to yeeld you the bucklers hee pleades and proues the contrarie throughout his discourse Besides it is no honest dealing to insert a Parenthesis into your Aduersaries text These wordes to wit in the Booke De mirabilibus sacrae Scripturae beare the counterfeit stamp of your owne will The Knight saith only that Saint Aug. elsewhere excludeth them from the Diuine Canon for proofe whereof hee doth in the same page cite his words Contra Gaudent and for the better passage hereof he premiseth a testimonie out of the booke De Mirabilibus written Anno Domini 627. which he margents with Saint Augustines name as being to bee found only amongest his tomes Iab m Ouerth pag. 134. Was not Sir Edward thinke you here bobbed by the Bachelor or some Lecturer He n Ouerth pag. 133. citeth the Booke de Mirabilibus by their directions as Saint Augustines which all learned men with one consent discard from the number as a Booke of no account Can o Ouerth pag. 134. any staine to his Knighthood be greater then to bee thought so notorious a Falsifier of so great and learned a Father euen in print Min. Is this so inexpiable an errour that no satisfaction may redeeme I had thought his manie reasons alleadged in the Counter-snarle would haue giuen content to any judicious eye but I perceiue malice will hold the least aduantage with tooth and naile Iab Did p Pag. 34. he only note in the margent where that Booke and sentence might bee found and not resolutely auerre in his text that it was plainly and determinately his saying Min. I must be your Eccho He did only note in the margent And you must know there is great difference betweene a cursorie marginall note and a resolute textuall assertion It might haue sufficed you that that Booke was very neare a thousand yeare old long as he tels you before Luther was born and of such esteeme that it was annexed to his writings who was then most eminent So ancient a testimonie could not but giue a great Shake to the Macchabees Iab But q Pag. 34. why did hee cite it for Saint Augustines against his conscience and knowledge as hee since confesseth Min. You may as well aske Ludouicus Viualdus why in the very text of his Tractate De Veritate Contritionis pag. 31. he citeth the same father for a saying taken out of the Booke De duodecim Abusionum gradibus saying Haec Augustinus whereas in the 42. page of the said Booke hee maketh this acknowledgement of the same worke Hic liber à quibusdam ascribitur Hugoni de Sancto Victore Alij vero tribuunt Cypriano You might haue done well to haue taken him to schoole and taught him neuer to haue cited that Booke without that tedious Appendix So should Augustine haue beene well attended with a man or two still waiting at his heeles Ma. Verily the good man would haue taken it ill at his hands who should haue laid Ignorance or Fraude to his charge To haue taxed him with r Pag. 37. Reseruations and Equiuocations in his writings about matters of Religion to deceiue his lesse warie Readers had beene an irrecompensable wrong Yet is hee in the same praedicament with the Knight Euerie penne especially in marginall directs is not patient at
all times of such tedious circumlocutions The quoting of the place where the sentence may bee found freeth the Author from the suspition of fraudulent trickes It was neyther his Ignorance nor Fraude that he so quoted it but a strong presumption of his Aduersaries skill whom hee deemed no stranger to the worst retainor to Saint Augustines workes Nick. I would gladly be inform'd how you would haue had my master alleage that place Had the margent been blanke the coherence perhaps would haue carried it as S. Augustines speech whereas now the Reader hath a reference to the place here hee may bee informed both of the Antiquity and credit of the Author and so passe his censure as he shall find cause Iab Å¿ Pag. 31. Had it been any discredit to haue confessed those quotations were by some Minister suggested vnto him your valiant writer and Deane Doctour Morton was he not driuen dy his aduersaries to acknowledge that he had taken some corrupted testimonies of our Authors vpon the credit of Iohn Stocke and R. C Nick. See how modesty creepes vpon Doctour Smooth-bootes O how iealous he would seeme to be of my masters credit which hee spareth not to ouerlay at his pleasure with Cart-loades of kitchin-stuffe scraped from the sluttish sides of his owne greazie kettles Ma. How corrupt the testimonies of your owne Authors are I will not take vpon me to iudge but as I haue heard R. Stock hath satisfied for himselfe these eyes haue seene a sufficient discharge for the other in a late learned Encounter against Master Parsons so that the Obiector hath little cause to glory vnlesse it bee in his owne shame As for the Knight howsoeuer you may thinke him beholding vnto you t Pag. 31. for deuising in his defence such an honourable excuse hee needeth neither your deuice nor defence that being no lesse preiudiciall to the sincerity of his entendments then this u In beneficio habendum non est sub honoris specie contumeliam pati dishonorable to his personall endowments Your quaint deuises fittest for crack'd causes will I feare be too thinne to fence your owne head from a fatall blow Min. He shall not need to Father this quotation vpon any Minister what will you say Doctor Iabal if the Knight be able to produce this booke so fathered vpon S. Augustine without your distinction of x Pag. 38. Anonymi cuiusdam euen by your owne disputants I hope you will then confesse this Reseruation was worth the concealing to hit the nayle home to the head at the last blow Nick. What Iabal who hath cast milke in your face neuer change countenance for the matter Iab y Pag. 30. All learned men by one consent discard it from that number as a booke of no account It is a most grosse and inexcusable Corruption suggested by some notorious falsificator trencher Schoole-master or Mercenary Lecturer perchance euen by Master Crashaw himselfe Min. Your ayme then is this whosoeuer alleageth the booke De Mirabilibus vnder S. Augustines name is a Notorious c. But beeing some two moneths since with Sir Edward vpon occasion of a Kentish Library which was to be sold he shewed me the same booke so cited not onely by z Confess Augustin l. 4. c. 10. Sect. 6. Hierom Torrensis to prooue Enoch in viuis adhuc esse et vnemquemque recipere spiritum sanctum in baptismo but also by your renowned a Confes Petrikon ca. 80. Hosius to prooue Esdram restituisse libros legis Now Nick make you the conclusion Nick. Ergo Iabals consorts must deuide the Notorious falsifier betweene them Ergo Iabal might haue spared a number of wast words Ergo these Popinians haue more skill of b Pag. 33. trenchers then of Authors Ergo the Church of Rome hath played many such false tricks Ergo it was either their c Pag. 36. ignorance that indeed they thought that booke was his or their fraud which made them vtter what they knew was false to deceiue the Reader Ergo their Editions both auncient and Moderne doe either not at all or not so visibly distinguish these supposititious works from those of the auncient Fathers with Anonymi cuiusdam in euery page as our d Pag. 38. Bibles do disioyne the Apocrypha from the Canonicall Scriptures Ergo if Iabal haue the least graine of wit or grace he will giue no more such swinge to his vnruly and pettish pen. Ma. Doctor Iabal vnlesse you be partiall these inferences must needs be graunted they are your own vpon the like supposition T is fit euery bird should haue her owne feathers That which you dare not disallow in your owne writers must not so seuerely be prosecuted against ours It pitties me to see how you are plunged The Knight is able to teach twenty such fabling disputants I cannot but smile to thinke how artificially he hath trayn'd you along to bewray your want of Wit and surplusage of malice Let this be a warning vnto you in your next worke to be more considerate For now the notorious falshood wherewith you haue beene so inraged e Pag. 41. cleaues so fast to your fingers that vnlesse you haue somewhat else of greater moment to say you must be faine to rub them rudely vpon your owne Coat Iab The f Ibid. second place he brought out of S. Augustine against the booke of Machabees was a sentence in his book against the Epistle to Gaudentius against which my accusation was that his Minister had added the last sentence containing the substance of the matter vnto Saint Augustine Ma. You should rather tell vs how honest and modest an answere you receaued This last clause saith he I wonder how it should passe my sight in the review for perusing my first draught I find go written short in another letter to distinguish my inference from Augustines proofe It seemeth either my Manuaries hast or the Printers misprision hath turned go into sed as if the same had beene continued which former error made them omit consequently in the English reddition Iab That there was a short go in his first draught seemes not very probable for g Pag. 42. what likenesse is there betweene go and sed that his Manuary or printer should take the one for the other Min. Nay read it with Sed as it was printed and then you shall hardly find common sence Machabaeorum Scriptura recepta est ab ecclesia non inutiliter si sobrie legatur vel audiatur maxime propter istos Martyres Macchabaeos sed ob hanc causam in Canone morum non fidei censcriposset This sed ob hanc causam doth not relish of a Schollars penne which should rather bee et ob hanc causam So that you may well thinke the Knight was not so simple in so grosse a manner wittingly to make that sweet Father speake gibbrish in a Dialect so vnlike his owne you are a happy man whose lines doe passe the Presse
without any scarre Nick. I pray you what likenesse is there between Sacer dotes and Scortatores yet as I haue heard my master say in one Edition of the new Testament set out at Coleyn in steed of these words h 1. Cor. 6.9 Neque Scortatores regnū dei possidebunt he hath found it thus printed Neque Sacerdotes regnum dei possidebunt I hope you will not challenge the Printer for allusion to your olde trade I perswade my selfe it was his misprision though some haue thought hee did it to cry quittance with his wiues Confessour I hope this was more then the change of one poore sillable the tayle of the g being the same with a Romane s and a running o. not vnprobably to be supposed to haue lost the head of a d. through hast of a speedy pen. To put vt for at is no such capitall crime Ma. You should rather demand of him what likenesse there is between 34. and 42. 169. and 168. 176. and 172. Such errours are so frequent in his booke that it must of necessity cause wrong quotations yet in my conscience I do not thinke the Doctor was accessary to these or the like scapes wherewith his lines doe abound T is like the Printer thought hee had no great good match of your booke Had hee not misdoubted the currant sale thereof hee would haue had a more vigilant eye ouer the presse this his presage made him put i Pag. 63. N. 43 lin 6. giue for deny k Io. lin 8. Indeleble for vndeniable l Pag. 92 N. 3. Edition for Reddition m Pag. 101. N. 13. Deuised for deuided n Pag. 52. N. 29 long for low o Pag. 129. N. 6. Ioyned for moued p Pag. 180. N. 27 Burned for drowned q Pa. 40. N. 15 was for his old seruiceable attendant As. The surplusage and defect of many other words giues vs iust cause to suspect either the Printers care or the Authors skill so that you may well winke at such small faults as the scape of a Monosyllable or two Iab Why r Pag. 42. should he make his Inference in Latin writing in English what English Author vseth that idle manner of Writing but himselfe Min. As if a Schollar being in his owne Element may not be easily carried away with a strong imagination that he is in the Schooles especially writing to a Schollar about Theologicall questions This I haue many times obserued in the Knight that it is yrksom vnto him to write any thing Verbatim which hath passed his penne before neither doth hee without vrgent necessity render that authority in English which hee hath quoted in Latin All wittes haue not the patience alike to endure the repetition of the same things and such for the most part take that first which first offereth it selfe and may bee dispatched with fewest Characters taking vp the least roome Ma. Whether his Inference were in Latine or English it is litigium de forma I am sure he vouched S. Hieromes ſ In praef lib. Sal authority that the Church read the book of Machabees for the edification of the common people but receaued them not amongst the Canonicall Scriptures for the authorizing of Ecclesiasticall decrees which was as much as the Knight intended by secluding them from the Canon of Faith Iab This is nothing to the purpose t Pag. 43. to proue S. Augustine did reiect them who might bee contrary to S. Hierome in this point not beeing then defined by any generall Councell Ma. S. Hierome contrary to S. Augustine Is not this goodly Rhetorique to draw the Ladies to build their faith vpon the writings of the ancient Fathers Is there any more then one truth Either the booke of Machabees is Canonicall or not You say S. Augustine auerrs it wee proue that S. Hierome Lyra Brito Rabanus Caietan c. deny it Whom shall your Creatures beleeue Will you suffer them to haue such reeling and tottering Consciences Iab u Pag. 44. Caietan whom he citeth iumps not altogether with your conceit and though he did his sayings are not oracles with vs. Min. This kind of disputing will neither get you a Miter nor a Cardinalls Hatte Set you so light by the head-men of your parish Good Dctour let vs know to whose verdit you will stand dare you say to S. Augustines are all his sayings Oracles in your Church Nay saith x In Act. Apost cap. 1. p. 9. a. Lorinus Augustinus incertum putat an Iste Theophilus idem sit cui Lucas Euangelium et Acta nuncupauerit Atqui res certa videtur The Diuines of y 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 De Trinit l. 9. c. 2. in Marg. Louane lay Sophistry to his charge So likewise writeth your Iesuite z Comment in Iohan. 6.53 Maldonate Augustini et Innocentij primi sententia fuit quae sexcentos fere annos viguit in ecclesia Eucharistiam etiam infantibus necessariam esse quae tandem ab ecclesia reiecta est The opinion of Augustine and Innocentius the first which was receiued in the Church well nigh sixe hundred yeares was this that the Eucharist was necessarily to bee ministred vnto Infants which at length is reiected by the church Negare non possumus saith a In Thom. disp 154. cap. 2. 3. Vazquez praedictam opinionem fuisse Augustini et Fulgentij a qua non multum Gregorius Magnus abhorret tamen meo iudicio probabilior eos nulla alia paena quam damni id est priuatione beatitudinis puniri Albeit we cannot deny that b Ser. 14. de verb. Apost et l. 5. cont Iuliā c. 8. Aug. and Fulgentius did teach that Infants dying without Baptisme did presently descend into the place of the damned to be sensibly tormented in hell-fire yet notwithstanding in my iudgement it is more probable that they vndergoe no other punishment then the losse and priuation of beatitude The like censure doth c Concor Euang tom 1. lib. 7. ca. 8 Barradius passe vpon Euthymius Hocloco saith he Euthymius non recte de Virgine sanctissima haec scripsit Non credidit sicut Zacharias c. Procul a Christiano pectore et auribus huiusmodi sint verba Thus doth your Church spunge out the opinions of the ancient Fathers vpon whom you seem so stedfastlie to relye Ma. Then it seems the matter is not great what S. Augustines opinion was touching the Legitimation of the Machabees seeing his words are no Oracles euen with the Doctors of the Romish Church and the rather because the booke according to Iabals confession was not then naturalized by the consent of any Occumenicall Couacell Nick. This is a prettie slight The Fathers are but as feathers when they doe not stick to the Popelings I trow Saint Hierome shall find more fauour at your hands Iab Saint d Pag. 43. Hierome may seeme to speake acoording to the opinion of the Hebrewes as hee vseth to doe not in
by mistaking of the word Canonicall which is sometimes taken largely to signfie aswel the Bookes that might concerne the Rule of Manners as those which serue for the foundation of the doctrine of Faith in which sence your Father and Councell are to be vnderstood whereas the same word in the strict and proper signification doth only comprehend the Bookes which agree with the Canon of the Hebrewes according to the generall consent of the Ancient Fathers of all Churches before the dayes of Saint Augustine To this end hee sent no worse p Letter to T.H. pag. 62. Messenger to cleare this doubt then a person eminent both by name and place I meane that famous Cardinall Cajetan Ne turberis Nouitie saith he Si alicubi reperias libros istos inter Canonicos supputari Cum hac distinctione poteris discernere dicta Augustini scripta in Concilio Prouinciali Carthaginensi Hee tels you that they are thus to be vnderstood as also that none but Nouices in the writing of the Ancient Fathers will trouble themselues by making any question in so apparaÌ„t a truth Nick. Iabal hath well requited him for his paines I trow he hath sent the Cardinall away with a flea in his eare If Caietan had beene Pope hee would haue beene twice aduised before he had so rudely reiected his Oracles My fellow Iack Footeman would haue no great Maw to carry a Message to such a currish Swaine from whom hee expects no better entertainment Min. Caietan I wis had more wit in his little finger then Iabal in his whole body Beati Pacifici was his aime Should such hot-spurres as our Nouice haue beene made Arbitrators there would haue beene such a broyle amongst the Fathers as would not be easily reconciled For if you take away this fauourable most probable distinction you should soone see a field pitch'd betweene q Vide Admon praefix Concord Bibliorum per haered Wecheli Cyril Cyprian Origen r Si quid extra haec inuenitur inter adulterinos libros numerandum est Greg. Nazian Nazian zene Å¿ Anthonin Summ. maior Parâ— 3. tit 18. cap. 6. § 2. Hierome t Alij libri sunt qui non Canonici sed Ecclesiastici a maioribus appellati sunt eiusdem ordinis Tobiae Iudith et Machabaeorum libri Ruffi in Symbol fol. 575. Ruffinus Epiphanius u Sunt Canonici veteris testamenti libri viginti duo lâ—teris baebraicis numero parâ—s Aâ—ban ex Synopsi Athanasius Eusebius and Gregory on th' one side discarding them and Augustine the Councell of Carthage Trent on th' other part defending them When this pitch'd battel should haue beene fought the Romanists might haue sought our valiant Sanga vnder the Trundle-bedde till the hurly burly had beene at at end vnlesse they had pluckt him out by the heeles no perswasion would haue drawne him to shew his face they are all so peremptory and plaine against the Canonizing of these Apogriphall bookes This was not vnknowne to the Cardinal who was thereby induced to thinke that S. Augustine tooke the word Canonicall in the larger sence as comprehending the Ecclesiasticall writings within the verge thereof Ma. Had it beene an error an the Iewes not to haue receiued these bookes as they did the Law and the Prophets I cannot thinke but that Christ or his Apostles would surely haue reproued so notable a crime seeing they were not meale-mouthed in the reprehension of lesser faults And whereas we receiue this maine benefit by the Apostacy of the Iewes that therby the world seeing them enemies vnto the Messias cannot but giue the greater credence to the bookes of th' old Testament without suspect of partiality which otherwise might haue beene doubted the adopting of these other Apocriphall into the Canon were as much as in vs lieth to vilifie th' authority of their authentique records who may not improbably be thought to haue taken in those that were adulterine as well as to haue degraded those that are found to haue beene diuine Min. If all other reasons were mute me thinkes the Author Matter and Manner of the history might well make an ingenuous person very sparing in the defence The Author if wee may credit the x Vide Zanch. de diuin attrib lib. 4. ca. 4. enlarging Epitomizer of these bookes is y 2. Mac. 2.23 Iason Cirenaeus a z Spiritu sancto inspirati loquuti sunt sancti Dei homines 2. Pet. cap. 1. v. 21. heathen man for-sooth a fit Secretarie for the Court of heauen It seemes pen-men were then as scanty as sometimes a 1. Sam. c. 13. v. 19. Smiths in Palestine This must needs bee 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which requireth so much b 2. Mac. 2. v. 26. watching sweating and pains in the refining Calamus Scribae velociter scribentis would haue eased all this toyle which is not to bee feared where the Omniscient spirit is the Dictator As touching the matter it is wouen in a webbe of such palpable contradictions that a man who regardeth his credit would be sorry at his heart to bee taken tripping in such contrary tales One while c 1. Mach. c. 6. v. 16. Antiochus died for griefe in Babilon Another while hee was slaine in the Temple of d 2. Mac. c. 1. v. 13. Nanea where his head was cut off And yet is not Antiochus out of his paine As if he had as many liues as a Cat you shal see him stalke once more vpon this historicall Stage and then at last fall downe and dye with a most noysome stinking smell consumed with e 2. Mach. c. 9. v. 9. Ducit ad inferos â— educit wormes Indeede I must needs say he is very modest in the deliuery He writes not f Math. 7. v. 29. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as one who had the custody of the mint to warrant the mettle whereunto he had put his stampe but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for the g 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 pleasure and recreation of the reader Had he had the warrant of the spirit hee would haue spared the labour of begging fauor and suing out a pardon for which hee is faine to crowch to the Readers gentlenesse Ma. Then had the holy Father S. Augustin good cause to say that they are receiued profitably if they bee read Soberly For if they should bee read with a precipitate opinion as Canonicall Scriptures in the strict sence the many leakes which are transparant in them would goe very neere to sinke th' authority of the rest Iab It appeareth by that testimony against the Epistle of Gaudentius that the Christians gaue that authority to those h Pag. 55. bookes which the Iewes did not grant vnto them that the Church did set them vp in the throne from which the Synagogue had kept them which was the Imperiall throne of sacred Authority Otherwise S. Augustins opposition The Iews did not but The Church doth were vaine Ma. The
opposition if any stands not in the degree but rather beareth the sence of a preuention For as much as the Iewes from whom the old sacred records were originally deriued would not enter them into the Diuine Canon it could not but occasion many considerate Christians vtterly to cashere them For the auoiding heereof S. Augustine seeing they might tend to some good vse tells vs that albeit the Iewes did not receiue them as Canonicall yet the Church receiued them not vnprofitably if they bee read soberly He saith not that the Church receiued them into higher authority then the Iewes but as books which might serue to as good purpose if they were read warily amongst vs as they did among the Iewes Neither doth hee say Recipienda est Scriptura Machabeorum as implying an vndeniable necessity but recepta est non mutiliter as noting a voluntary acceptance vpon a probable end with th' addition of this Prouiso if they be read soberly which howsoeuer you otherwise deeme cannot be fitly spoken of Canonicall writ which is necessarily to be embraced and is alwaies profitable to the Church which euermore bringeth Sobriety to the reading thereof neither is it any lesse behoofull to the Church though it be peruerted by reprobates to their owne damnation But as for humane writings the case is otherwise they are then onely receiued profitably by the Church when they are read warily A good man by attributing too much to an vnwarrantable ground of which sort the sacred writ affoordeth none may make a faulty inference which mooued Saint Augustine to insinuate that there are rocks by which he would haue vs warily to saile Nick. What if wee admit for disputation sake that S. Augustine deliuereth this as his resolute opinion in Iabals sence I would gladly learne what reason hee can yeeld why this should ouer-sway the ioynt iudgement and consent of so many far more ancient Fathers who teach the contrary Iab i Pag. 59. Caluin doth allow him the style of the best and most faithfull witnesse of Antiquity how can hee then be excused from great temerity if heerein he erred Ma. Errare humanum est The spirit of God alone is free from errour The k It was lawful to contradict the Fathers and doubt of them Guido de Haeres c. 7. Church euen in his daies was somewhat clowded with the mists of superstition Had he not an Eagles eye he could hardly haue discouered those beames which Antichrist had then laid in the way It was hard if not impossible for one man to discerne euery mote which then houered in the aire of the Papall regiment Iab l Pag. 60. This sentence may suffice alone to giue any Iudicious eare to vnderstand your opposition with S. Augustine Ma. Wee honour his memory as a blessed Saint from whose pen the Church of God hath receiued ineffable good and wee account it not the least part of our happinesse that for one seeming testimony which you wrest to serue your owne turne wee are able to shew a million to right our cause Iab Can you deny that S. Augustine taught our Catholique doctrine concerning the point of Merit m Pag. 62. Doth he not say that as the wages due to sinne is death so the wages due to righteousnesse is life eternall And againe The reward cannot go before merits nor bee giuen before a man be worthy thereof yea that God should be vniust if he that is truly iust be not admitted into his kingdome Can any Catholique speak more plainly then he doth of Merits Min. These places doe not any whit crosse our doctrine against merit The Analogy which he makes betweene Sinne and Death Righteousnesse and life consisteth not in the quality of Desert but of the n Deest gratiae quiâ— quid meritis deputas Nolo meritum quod gratiam excludit Bâ—â—n super Caen. Ser. 67. effect Augustine saith not that the wages of righteousnesse which is Heauen is as due as the wages of sinne which is death th' Analogy is in regard of the consequent effect to signifie that heauen the wages which is due to righteousnesse shall as truly bee bestowed vpon the faithfull as Hell or Death shall bee inflicted vpon the wicked For if wee consider th'equality of desert and condignity there is according to the doctrine of S. Augustine a threefold disproportion One in respect of the Rewarder whose rewarding of sinne with eternall torment is the proper act of Iustice in it selfe Whereas his rewarding of Righteousnesse vpon them whom he hath accepted vnto Grace is only the Iustice of his mercifull o In illis opera saa glorificant In â—â—les opera non sua condemnant Fulgen. ad Mon. lib. 1. promise Secondly in respect of the Subiect for the Sinne which a wicked man committeth is properly his owne but the righteousnesse of the Regenerate is the gift p Opera bona habemus non ex nobis nata sed à Deo donata Fulg. ibidem of God so that the reward of death is more properly due to sinne then is the reward of life vnto righteousnesse Thirdly in regard of the obiect because the sinne of the wicked is perfectly imperfect but the righteousnes of the most godly is imperfectly perfect that is but a stained goodnesse wherefore there cannot be an equall condignity in both Ma. We grant that the reward cannot goe before merites nor bee giuen before a man bee worthy thereof but Iabal must learne that these merits are q Mors eius meritum meum Aug. in Manual c. 22. Christs by the Imputation whereof we that are altogether vnworthy of our selues are made through Gods gracious acceptance of his sonnes obedience worthy of this reward Otherwise Non sunt condignae passiones our greatest sufferings are not worthy of the least degree of glory which shall bee reuealed to the sonnes of God r Ephes 2. v. 8. Gratia enim saluatis estis saith the Apostle For you are saued by Grace through Faith and that not of your selues Min. Fulgentius makes the case plaine in this golden sentence Å¿ De praedest 〈◊〉 Montâ—tum lib. 1 Vnus Deus est qui gratis et vocat praedestinatos et iustificat vocatos et glorificat iustificatos and againe t Ibid. Sicut gratiae ipsius opus est cum facit iustos sic gratiae ipsius erit cum faciet gloriosos u Aug. in Psal 83. Debitorem se ipse Dominus fecit saith S. Augustine non accipiendo sed promittendo non ei dicitur Redde quod accepisli sed quod promisisti God hath made himselfe a Debtor not by receauing any thing from vs but by the passing of his promise vnto vs wee say not to him Render that thou hast receiued but giue that which thou hast promised And the same x Tract 3. in Iohan Father Non pro merito acciptes vitam aeternam sed pro gratia Thou shalt not receiue life eternall for merit but for grace Nick.
but Blasphemy against the Holy Ghost in neither Whence followeth seing the next world is the time of Iustice that God doth not there remit sinnes without exacting and inflicting the due punishment vnto the Authours which is the Purgatorie the Catholique Church doth and hath euer taught This exposition no sooner soundeth in his eare but his tongue waggeth in this sort I protest I thought as much you haue turned vp Noddy Ma. Doubtlesse you read the Knights booke with a perspectiue glasse otherwise the Noddy which was sixe pages distant from the first proposall of this argument would not haue sate so close vpon your brow First to she the vanitie of this Inference he tels you that Saint Marke handling the same theame renders Saint Matthewes disiunctiue in this plaine Collectiue that who so blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost shall neuer haue forgiuenes as being culpable of eternal daÌ„nation secondly to proue that this was no simple but an approued glosse in those dayes he alleadgeth Athanasius Hierome Hillarie and Ambrose who made no other construction of those wordes then that this Sinne should bee neuer forgiuen Thirdly by way of Concession he giueth allowance in part to your Inference that some sinnes may bee said to bee pardoned in the world to come viz. per Remissionis promulgationem And so concludes b Letter to T.H. pag. 32. that the Sinne against the Holy Ghost is here exaggerated by opposition to other Sinnes in the depriuation of that double benefit whereof other Sinners penitent are capable Now because he saw his Aduersarie did put the wordes on the Rack making them speake that which was farre from the scope of the place viz. that some Sinnes remissible are pardoned in the world to come which were not formerly forgiuen in this world he tels him indeed that in adding this last clause he had turned vp Noddy which gaming Metaphor was not vnfitly applied to so trifling a disputant Iab c Pag. 65 He discourseth more like a Carpet Knight then a sober Diuine shewing more skil at Cardes then of Scriptures Ma. Indeed he hath taught you a New Cut viz. to deale more mercifully with the Scriptures and more charitably with the Soules of your poore brethren If eyther the rules of Logick or the verdict of Ancients bee of any account he hath turned this your deduction many specks out And for ought I see the more you draw the further you are gone Min. How absurd the Inference is it will easily appeare by the scope of the text and the sence of the words Our Sauiour there speaketh de reatu peccati of the guilt of Sinne saying non remittetur and doth not specifie any paine to bee suffered for such sinnes whose fault is forgiuen in this present life Had he said Hee that sinneth against the Holy Ghost shall not be vnpunished in this world nor in the world to come the Inference had not beene amisse Ergo some sinnes are punished in the world to come which are not punished in this world But when hee sayth it shall bee forgiuen neyther in this VVorld nor in the VVorld to come it is a meere fallacie to drawe the speech from the guilt to the punishment inferring that some sinnes shall be punished in the next world whose offence is forgiuen in this The remission from which that Superlatiue Sinner is debar'd is an act of mercie wherin man is considered as a Patient and therefore cannot be sutable to that time and act of Iustice whereof the Doctor dreameth neyther can a sinne be said properly to be remitted the due punishment wherof th' offender hath condignely sustained Hee that payes the vtmost farthing is verie little beholding for the forgiuenesse of his debt But if you will needs vncase this sentence of the figure wherewith it is beautified I demaund whether doth our Sauiour speake of the guilt or of the punishment or of both If he say the guilt shall not be forgiuen in this world nor in the world to come then your deduction must be this Ergo the guilt of some mortall sinnes shall bee remitted in the next world which is not remitted in this and so your Purgatorie presupposing a former assoylement from the guilt will haue no subsistence If hee speake of the punishment you must infer Ergo some sinnes shall be punished in the next world which are not punished in this which as all men confesse so doth it affoord no aduantage to your cause If you say that he speaks of both Guilt and Punishment then as well the Guilt as the Punishment of some mortall sinnes shal be then remitted which your d Pag. 79 Suarez doth disclaime So that you are verie nimble thus to fetch a crosse caper making the Lord of truth to speake of Guilt in the former and of Punishment in the latter part to serue your turne Nick. I would be loath to fast till Iabal get out of this Maze should I stay for a solution the piâ—d Nag I feare would not come at Iames Parke this grasse But you were in hand to speake something concerning the sence of the words Min. Well remembred I was about to shew the Doctor his error in making the World to come which signifieth e Marâ— 1â— â—â— the last day to note that middle space of time which is now in present being As long as time lasteth this present world continueth the world to come commeth not till the date of time be cleane extinct and then their owne confession making a full Gaole deliuerie casheireth Purgatorie as of no longer vse Had our Sauiour said It shall be forgiuen neyther in this life nor in the life to come there had beene some better colour for this Inference but by mentioning the world to come which being opposed to this present world hath relation to the day of Iudgment when no remission is to be expected he implieth a necessarie Nullitie of anie future forgiuenesse after this life Nick. Vnder correction I thinke a man might as well reason thus If the time present be in respect of those that are deceased to bee tearmed the World to come then much more may that Eternitie bee so called which followeth the day of the Lords last aduent And so by vertue of this place taken properly in Iabals sence some sins may then also be forgiuen which were not formerly remitted by which kind of pleading a man might easily merit Origens fee. Besides should it bee granted that some sinnes are remitted in Iabals world yet is there no necessarie consequence of the Satisfactorie fire of Purgatorie Iab You cannot denie but this our Inference and exposition of the former place is taught by f Pag. 66. fiue or sixe Ancient and Holy Doctors which the g T. H. Motist citeth Will your wisdome tearme them Noddies Shal Saint Bernard Venerable Bede Saint Isidore bee put in the number of Noddies If you be an English Christian you cannot denie Saint Gregorie to be your Father Heare what hee
forsitan Iab Indeed he doth Hierogliphick my name of u Preface I.R. in English Latin and Hebrew making mee in the one Iack Roague in the other Iscarioth de Rubigine and Ishmael Rashacheh in the third wherwith he ioyneth the Sirnâ—me of Cecropidan Licaonite Nick. Hee saw you were x I.R.F. Trium literarum homo therefore for want of a better god-father hee made bold to fit your Appellation according to your praedominant quality And seeing there was no one word or single language able sufficiently to expresse your worth hee thought fit by his variety to make you knowne for a viperous Sesquipedalian in euery coast where the frothy Libell of such a namelesse miscreant should arriue Min. Had you saide shamelesse you had giuen him no more then his due What will he not spare to speake who dares auerre that the Fathers of former ages doe without the contradiction of any peremptorily deliuer the doctrine of Purgatory and the same exposition of this place touching pardon in the next world How waueringly S. Augustine speakes his Forsitan back'd with an Ignoranius doth sufficiently declare Macarius his dicotomy of two sole receptacles doth exclude any opinion of a third Chrysost tells vs that God y In Pre. e. in Isay quando peccata abolet nullam reliquam facit cicatricem Tertullian ioynes in the same peremptory assertion z Tertul. de Baâ—t exempt to reatu eximitur et poena What think you of S. Hierome doth he deserue to stand in your Kalendar of Fathers As hee crossed you in your foundation of the Machabees so doth hee mar your market and raze your whole building with this a In Psal 31. gradation Quod tegitur non videtur quod non videtur non imputatur quod non imputatur non punietur That which is couered is not seene that which is not seene is not imputed that which is not imputed shall not bee punished Where is now the generality of consent Is this your certainty without contradiction Doth S. Chrysostom expound this place of Mathew otherwise then thus Non effugient poenam they shall surely be punished Speaks he one word to countenance your sence You shold haue shewed your selfe farre more Ingenuous in answering to this as Durandus Antonius in the behalf of Indulgncees De Indulgentijs say they pauca dici possunt per certitudineÌ„ quia nec scriptura expresse de eis loquitur Sancti etiaÌ„ patres Ambrosius Hillarius Hieronimus Augustinus minime loquuntur de Indulgentijs Touching Indulgences the inseparable b Per modum Causae Concomitants of purgatory little can be said by way of certainty because neither Scripture doth expresly mention them neither do the holy Fathers speake of them at all With the like speech did the Knight present you out of c Roffâ—aâ—tic 18. contra Luth. Lett. to T. H. pag. 77. Roffensis vizt whosoeuer shall read the Greeke Fathers shall finde very rare or no mention of Purgatory Ma. It seems the Doctor hath either a better paire of spectacles or a more piercing sight Shall we imagine he hath beene more industrious in the perusall of th' auncient Records then that eminent Bishop or haue wee not rather iust cause to thinke him too much deuoted to Lensaeus his lines which hee rendreth word for worde without any further perusall of the truth It is the customary d Motiue T. H. pag. 169. in Mâ—rg trade of the Romanists to vouch opinions when they want the Authors books The view of the Fathers writings would haue stopped the passage and curtold the Philactery of this his insolent bragge Min. How willing they are to misunderstand the Fathers their like collection in wresting the words of S. Paul 1. Corin. 3.13 doth sufficiently proclaime There the Apostle tells vs that Euery mans worke shall be made manifest for the day shall declare it because it shall be reuealed by the fire and the fire shall try euerie mans worke of what sort it is From this Metaphoricall speech they e Motiue T. H. pag. 110. would inferre a litterall necessity of Purgatory fire But their grand Doctor saw so little colour for this that hee is driuen to put them beside this plancke Patres aliqui saith f Bellar. de Purg. lib. 2. ca. 1. hee per ignem non intelligunt ignem purgatorij sed ignem diuini iudicij Some of the Fathers doe not by fire vnder stand the fire of Purgatory but the fire of Diuine Iudgement When the Auncients speake of this fire the Catholique spirits traduce their words and thinke they haue gotten a great purchase Sure it is the fire whereof S. Paul there speaketh hath no affinity with the fire of Purgatory for that trieth euery mans worke this onely purgeth some mens persons euery mans worke is subiect to that fire as well gold siluer and precious stones as timber hay and stubble but as for the fire of Purgatory they make it capable of no other fuell then timber hay and stubble the defilements of veniall and mortall sinnes S. Pauls fire makes euery mans worke manifest the Popes fire burning in an obscure place is without all lustre and light Besides if they vnderstand the Apostle as speaking of a reall fire they must also grant that hee speakes of materiall gold and siluer c. If th' one be Metaphoricall there is no reason they should deny th' other to bee Allegoricall Ma. Your Inference hath the warrant of Quintilian In Allegoria saith he tenendum est illud vt quo ex genere rerum coeperis eodem desinas secus Inconsequentia foedissima erit But as I remember I haue read sundry fathers alleadged g Motiue T.H. pag. 110. that the Apostle doth there intimate the fire of Purgatory Min. Those testimonies of the Fathers which speake of the fire of the day of doome or of Diuine Iudgement which is ignis probaâ—s non purgans these wrangling Sophisters take with the left hand to support the purging and tormenting flames which the bellowes of their superstition hath kindled in the forge of credulity As for this fire here specified h In Locum sermo Christi est saith S. Amb. It is the word of Christ i In Psal 118. Ser. 18.3 opus quod ardere dicitur mala doctrina est The worke which is said to burne is euill doctrine S. Bernard though elsewhere somewhat ouerswayed with the currant of those times is yet content to imforme k Bern. serm de Lig. foen Stipul vs That the bitternesse of the soule the confession of the mouth the punishment of the body which are all in this life are that fire whereby the loose and negligent builder shall bee saued l Lib. 2. aduers Iâ—uin S. Hierome by this fire vnderstandeth the furnace of tentation whereby a man is tried in this life Iab The fathers may somtimes m Pag. 78. bring places of Scripture which haue other sence yea perhaps the sence that one or
other doth giue may not be the best which is to erre according to the Analogy of place not of faith Ma. The Knights answere is not yet refelled If the Doctrine of true faith depend vpon the soliditie of exposition it cannot be but they who may errein the Analogy of exposition of place may likewise faile in the Analogy of faith Laeso fuÌ„damine nutat Tota domâ— Iab This Distinction you n Ibid. vnderstand not when manie Fathers of the Church agree in the same exposition of Scripture without the contradiction of anie the same is to be thought the vndeniable sence of that place Ma. The Doctrine of the Romish Church is far more strict then you seeme to allow If the credit of the Ihesuite Chauasius o Profess orth sid §. 37 may beare any sway you are to stand to that exposition of Scripture and that vpon oath which is Secundum vnanimem consensum Patrum whereas you content your selfe with the agreeable consent of manie p Ad quem ibimus Fathers in the same exposition of Scripture How you will auoid perjurie or what time you had need take to the making of a Sermon following this rule I referre me to your most serious and sober thoughts he had need haue a good Librarie that will auoid the censure of your Church yea he may perchance burne all his bookes before hee shall set them agreed In this point wee will giue allowance to your position hauing produced more demonstratiue authorities for the nullifying then you for the ratifying of Purgatorie I confesse it will bee no easie matter for vs to prooue a contradiction in the exposition of the place especially amongest those who neuer heard of that Commentitious figment for how should they gain say that which was not so much as questioned in the more Ancient times It sufficeth vs that your sence hath no generall iustification in neyther of your grounds which are otherwise interpreted by the most and not peremptorily paraphrased for your purpose by anie of the best ranke Iab Caluins q Pag. 70 Arianizing wit though hee may find some plausible euasion cannot be excused of haereticali call rashnesse who dareth expound this text of Scripture Ego Pater vnum sumus I and the father are one of vnitie of consent and will not of nature and substance adding that the Ancients did abuse the same to proue the consubstantialitie of the Sonne of God Seing the vniforme consent of Fathers haue canonized that meaning of the words he cannot be a true Christian that will not neyther was Caluin that did not submit his Iudgement thereunto Ma. May the Fathers to proue this or that Catholique veritie bring in places of Scripture that haue other sence yea maie the sence that one or other doth giue not bee the best though the Doctrine thereby proued be true then iudge how base and iniurious an imputation you lay vpon Caluin fetching him by force within the compasse of hereticall Arianizme who was euer most aduerse to that viperous brood hauing no other crime to challenge him withall besides a religious modestie in forbearing to rack a parcell of Scripture for the vttering of that euidence which was more naturally deputed to the deliuery of other places The sacred writ is so plentifull in proofes for the confutation of that diuellish surmise that hee held it no good discretion to rayse a suspition of penurie or doubt by insisting vpon that which being not fully pregnant might bee auoided by the indifferent sence of another clause where the same phrase did occurre You may as well challenge Bellarmine Valentianus and other Ihesuites who in their Treatises concerning the Trinitie doe not approoue of manie interpretations of Scripture which were by the Fathers somewhat too liberally produced against the same Heresie of Arianisme As for the place now questioned the judgement of Caluin is that the word vnum cannot absolutely euince an Indiuidual vnitie of Essence because in the seuententh of Iohn vers 22. Christ prayeth vnto his father concerning the elect that they may be one as we are one where the word vnum cannot inforce an vnitie of Essence in respect of the elect and therefore not inferre an Indiuidual vnitie in respect of the father This Inducement of Caluin thus grounded vpon Analogie of Scripture doth at least acquit him from your Taxation of Rashnesse Might it stand with your leasure to peruse his diuers confutations of Arianisme you should find him plentifull in alleadging manie other more direct places to that end Iab Hee cannot bee a true Christian that would not submit his Iudgement to the vniforme consent of the Fathers Ma. This is your vsuall ostentation this is one of the bombasted Articles of your new Romish faith If this may be allowed as the touch stone of Christianitie all the sort of you will soone appeare to bee most professedly periured aboue all other Votaries in the world There are diuers places of Scripture expounded with vniforme consent of Fathers in cases of no small moment which are at this day r D. Mâ—rta de Iurisdict part 4. pag. â—73 Maldon com in Mat. 19. Platin. in Steph. vita rejected by your Church When you pull out this beame of Periurie out of your owne eye you may with better licence point at the mote of Rashnesse which you cast vpon Caluins brow Iab The vniforme consent of Fathers Å¿ Pag. 71 doth not require that euerie one none excepted should expressely teach the same Doctrine for then scarse in anie point could this vniforme consent be proued seeing all write not of the same point but it sufficeth that manie haue taught it without the contradiction of the rest and such is the exposition of this place for Purgatorie and for the dead in the next world Nick. O how curious the Doctor is in his limitations and preuentions hee would haue made a good Lawyer able to set all his neighbours together by the eares Hee is content to chop Logick with you by the clocke but to keepe himselfe from push of Pike he sets a dead hedge and a double quicke set in the way When he boasts of vniforme consent hee meanes not euerie father none excepted when hee speakes of teaching he supposeth it may be collaterally and not expresly Besides he would haue you learne that all who expound the same place doe not write of the same point Nay more if the corruptions of latter times haue put a Quillet vpon any learned mans pen vnlesse it bee contradicted by the writers of former ages who did not so much as suspect any such vnhatched Nouelties it must passe as currant not to be opposed whithout the tincture of heretical rashnesse This I take to be the project of Iabals mazed speech Ma. By my white Staffe the earnest of my neighbours loue and the Ensigne of mine office well noted He would lead vs into a Labyrinth and wot you what the taile of his assertion sauors more of
speakes better then hee is aware in terming this distinction the fiue fingers For the hand of Gods mercy whereunto it hath reference in extending grace to his chosen children hath fiue fingers indeed First there is Salus decreta the pardon decreed in the eternall Counsell of God Secondly there is Salus oblata Grace offered in the ministery of the word Thirdly there is Salus recepta the Pardon receiued by faith which is the gift of God Fourthly there is Salus obsignata the Pardon sealed in the due Administration of the Sacraments And lastly there is Salus consuÌ„mata the pardon proclaimed at their perfect admission into eternall blisse All these fingers doth the Lord ordinarily lay on the heads of his elect before they can be throughly blessed Iab h Pag. 73. You preach very learnedly as you thinke though God knowes to little purpose You can bring no expresse testimony of Scripture that may giue the least colour or probability to this your new fancy Min. The purpose I confesse suits not with your humor which debarres it not from agreement with the truth My drift was to let you vnderstand that there belongs i Nunc recreamur continuo iâ—â—amine medicaminis tunc frucmur aeterna plenitudine sanitatis Fulg. de Praedest ad Monimum lib. 1. more to the absolution of a penitent then you seeme willing to conceiue As his sinnes are loosed on earth so shal they be loosed in heauen Our pardon is fully and absolutely purchased k Agnus occisus ab origine muÌ„dâ— before wee were and it is ours potentially in the purpose of God who hath decreed to giue it vs but as it is not sealed vnto vs actually till wee beleeue so neither do we fully and plenarily receiue the benefit and effect thereof till our bodies shall arise at the great and generall day of the Lord l 2. Thes 1.20 When hee shall come to be glorified in his Saints to be made maruellous in all them that beleeue When the booke of m Reu. 20.12 life shall bee opened and when God shall iudge the n Rom. 2.16 secrets of men by Iesus Christ Though wee haue heere o 2. Cor. 5.19 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The word of Reconciliation yet are we further to expect p Rom. 2 5. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the day of declaration Now are we the sonnes of God saith q 1. Iohn 3.2 Saint Iohn but yet it doth not appeare what we shall be Iab This is a new deuise not back'd by the authority of any Father which therefore may iustly be suspected r Pag 72 73. If all sinnes must haue double pardon one in this world another in the next why should not all sinners haue a double condemnation one in this world another in the next Min. The pardon is one and the same the difference is onely in the manner and time Quod nunc sancti credunt tunc videbunt saith Å¿ De praedest ad Monimum lib. 1. Fulgentius That grace and mercy which the Saints do now beleeue they shall then heare and see And againe Iste est in homine ordo diuinae redemption is c. Vt nunc iustificatus credat quod tunc glorificatus accipiat So that besides that assurance of Remission which we call pignus iustitiae the pledge of righteousnes there is also that which S. Paul stileth Coronam iustitiae the Crowne of Righteousnesse which is yet reserued for vs in the heauens S. Augustine coÌ„menting vpon these words of the Psalmist t In Psal 36. Educet quasi lumen Iustitiam tuam He will bring forth thy righteousnesse as the light and thy Iudgement as the noone-day hath these words Modo abscondita est iustitia tua In fide res est et nondum in specie Thy righteousnesse which presupposeth Remission is now hidden apprehended by faith and not as yet by sight Nondum vides quod credis cum autem caeperis videre quod credidisti tunc educetur in Lumine iustitia tua Thou dost not yet see that which thou beleeuest but when thou shalt begin to see that which thou hast beleeued then shall thy righteousnesse formerly apprehended bee brought forth in the light Promissorem adhuc tenes exhibitorem expectas To make this point yet more cleere hee proceedeth in this wise Quale sit iudicium tuum adhuc non apparet In isto saeculo quasi nox est Quando educet Iudicium tuum velut meridiem Cum Christus apparuerit vita vestra c. What thy iudgement is yet â—t appeareth not In this world it is as it were night when will hee bring forth thy iudgement as the noone day when Christ your life shall appeare This is one of those reasons which the u Vide Thom. in Sup. 3. part Qu. 8â— Art 1. Fathers alleadge why there should be a generall Iudgment notwithstanding the particular doom which the soule receiueth at the houre of death that so the sentence of Benediction and Malediction which was before priuate and in part might be then more generall and complete Haue you forgotten S. Augustines ground x De ciuit Dei lib. 20. ca. 14. Quaedam diuina vis aderit saith he qua fiet vt cuncta peccata in memoriam reuocentur There will be a certaine diuine power by which we euen y Peccata â—â—storum appâ—rebunt in Coelâ— Stel. in â—â— c. 21 the elect shall be then put in mind of all our sinnes Wherfore seeing sinnes formerly cancelled shall bee there remembred and z Oportet ad hoc quod iusta sententia appareat quod omnibus sententiam cognoscentibus merita den erita 〈◊〉 Thom. in Sup. 3. part Quaest 87. Art 2. published it is no new fancy to thinke that the pardon formerly graunted shall bee then also publiquely ratified and acknowledged Iab You mistake your Card and seeme not to know the very principles of Christian Diuinity a Pag. 74. That is not the day of mercy but of iustice to giue to euery man according to his workes not to forgiue any man his wicked workes That shall not be the generall Gaole Deliuery as the Knight surmiseth but rather then shall be the generall fiâ—ing of the Gaole with all sinners to be locked vp in misery euerlasting Ma. The Gaole deliuery of which the Knight speaketh doth glance at your supposed Purgatory which by your owne confession shall bee then broken and annihilated Implying that this Implication of future Remission if any may rather be vnderstood of that generall publication of pardon when your imaginary flames shall bee cleane extinct as if our Sauior had said they shall neither haue the seale of redemption in this world nor the sentence of absolution in the world to come Besides if you be wel aduised you may further remember that the Children of God shall then bee all deliuered from the b 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Apoc. 7. v. 14. bondage and misery of this world
will draw in a Purgatorie perforce in my mind they should doe better for the auoiding of partialitie to let the bodie which hath not the least part in the pleasure and fomenting of sin haue a turne or two in those flames as well as the soule Shall the terrestriall part sleepe in peace and shal the spirituall part pay so deare for the workes of the flesh This were to giue the bodie a l Pares in culpa Pares in poena priuiledge and prerogatiue aboue the soule Min. Nick You digresse I was about to craue his answer to m Art 18. pag. 86. b. Roffensis his relation who sayth that the Greekes to this day doe not beleeue there is a Purgatorie and that in their Commentaries there is verie litle or no mention thereof at all Yea the Latines saith hee did not all of them together receiue the truth of this matter but by litle and litle Whereunto Polydore also seemeth to assent Iab You n Pag. 92 omit that which you haue in your Latine Originall Quantum opinor as I now thinke or ghesse sayth that Bishop which is lesse then a new nothing to hang on your sleeue For though Roffensis at that time had such a thought not hauing then so fully perused the Graecian Fathers yet afterwardes in that verie Booke when hee commeth to speake of Purgatorie he doth affirme the contrarie in expresse tearmes Ma. He hath a verie simple Naperie who is faine to wipe his nose with a Foxes taile Did that Bishop write in such hast without perusall that hee had no leisure to giue a dash to so short a sentence in a point so materiall hauing before the finishing of his worke found the bush that could stoppe so maine a gappe Did his wisdome giue such reines to his vnruly pen to say and vnsay without a check What ancient Greeke Father doth hee nominate to contradict his former opinion Iab Whereas o Pag. 93 Luther did obiect that the Greeke Church did not beleeue Purgatorie he maketh this answer I take it you meane the vulgar multitude of that Nation not the Fathers of the Graecian Church for that the Graecian Fathers fauour Purgatorie the workes they left behind them doe witnesse Min. Without all question Purgatorie was greatly in their fauour when they could not so much as once vouchsafe to name it throughout their manie bookes Had they beeleued it their Charitie would haue compelled them to reueale it Your Roffensis I perceiue was then in a desperate case least Tradition shold be also wrung out of his clutches he is inforced to trie his wits and loe how gaily hee distinguisheth I take it you meane the vulgar multitude of that Nation not the Fathers as if they would not haue receiued it if their Doctors had deliuered it Is it not a rare Iest to search for the Records of faith inter Idiotas Could they haue beene raysed from their graues to testifie that by word of mouth which they were before vnable to write the Bishops surmise had beene more reasonable And what tokens of loue doth he bring from those Fathers to Purgatorie forsooth they mention Sacrifice and Prayer for the dead that so the soules departed being yet as they thought somewhat recluse might more speedily enjoy the beatificall vision of God as also that condigne prayse might be rendred to the Almightie by the aide of whose grace they were enabled to die in the faith Iab Whereas p Ibid. Luther obiecteth that Purgatorie could not be proued out of the Scripture Roffensis replieth that to pray for soules in Purgatorie is a most Ancient custome of the Church Nick. I promise you a wittie answere and to good purpose T is an ill Horse that can neyther wey-hey nor wagge his taile Your faction were litle beholding to him if hee would not say that it is a most ancient custome All the craft lies in the catching of this swift-wing'd proofe Could the Doctor come to lay salt vpon the taile of it we should soone haue it in our dish Min. Saint Paul who was rapt vp into the third Heauen should know as much concerning the most abstruse mysteries as the best He writing ex professo to the q 1. Thes 4. Thessalonians touching the state of the dead and prefacing his speech with Nolumus vos ignorare de dormientibus speakes not one word of this new-found Land nor of any ransome to bee payed for their enlargement who are there imprisoned Yea more he closeth that discourse with this Epilogue that hee would haue them comfort one another with these sayings which had not beene so properly or seasonably spoken were there a Purgatorie and penall satisfaction to be vndergone after this life The foolish Virgins that cried r Mat. 25.8 Date nobis de oleo vestro were non-suted with a nenō sufficiat nobis vobis So that the deceased estate of your declining Purgatorie receiuing so small a subsidiarie supply from that high sacred Court of the Apostolical Synod must be faine to stand to Roffensis his temporizing credulitie Iab You ſ Pag. 93. 94 haue the whole Armie of the Christian Church in all ages set in battaile-aray against you the blessed Apostles with pikes as I may say of Diuine authoritie standing in the forefront Ma. Indeed if Roffensis were an Apostle the Sett is yours He saith it is a most auncient custome of the Church but he falters in his euidence Iab To impeach t Pag. 91. the authority of the Church is the badge of heresie to condemne her custome is insolent madnesse Nick. This is your Ladies A.B.C. your Church is as much beholding vnto you as was Pythagoras to his Schollars In stead of Ipse dixit you will haue Ipsa dixit Iab What man u Pag. 94. 95. that hath any bit either of diuinity in his head or Christianity in his heart or Sobriety in his tongue would accuse Catholickes for esteeming the Ipsa dixit of the Church as much as the Pythagorians did the Ipse dixit of their Master Why should not this Ipsa the Mother of Christians the Spousesse of the Holy Ghost this Pillar and Foundation of truth this Daughter of God the Father washed with the bloud of his Sonne that shee might in her doctrine haue no blemish of errour Why should not her word I say be more esteemed of by her children then the saying of Pythagoras a Pagan Philosopher was with his Schollars Nick. I aske the banes of matrimony betweene Water and Woort Doe you think to out-swagger vs with your Rhetorique then I tell you Doctor your Romish Church is not the right subiect for those sweet attributes She is not the Mother of Christians but the Foster-dame of Heretiques Not the Spouse of the holy Ghost but the Minion of Antichrist Not the Pillar but the Poller of truth Not the Daughter of God the Father but the Bastard of Sathan Not washed in the bloud of his Sonne but polluted