testimonies which also he alleageth out of many bookes both of the old and newe Testament to prooue that the Church should bee spread ouer all the kingdomes and nations of the world He answereth the places of Scriptures which they alleaged to prooue that the world at sundrie times had so fallen away from God that a verie fewe true worshippers remained and why might not they be now as those fewe He sheweth that there be innumerable testimonies to prooue that the open bad did communicate together with the good in the Sacraments and that the good were fewe in comparison of the bad so mixed with them of which after he hath cited many he commeth at the last as it were to a conclusion that al other things remooued hee would haue them shewe their Church out of the holie Scriptures and from the places which are not darke And then it followeth Quisquis ergo huic epistolae responderese praeparat ante denunciationem mihi dicat illi codices dominicos ignibus tradiderunt illi simulacris gentium sacrificauerūt illi nobis iniquissimam persecutionem fecerunt et vos eis in omnibus consensistis Breuiter enim respondeo quod saepè respondi aut falsa dicitis aut si vera sunt non ad frumenta Christi sed ad eorum paleam pertinent ista quae dicitis non inde perit ecclesia quae optimo iudicio ventilata istorum omnium separatione purgabitur That is to say Whosoeuer therefore prepareth himselfe to answere this Epistle let him before the denouncing say vnto me such deliuered the Lords bookes to the fire such sacrificed to the Idols of the Gentiles such haue persecuted vs most vniustlie and you haue consented vnto them in all things For I answer brieflie which I haue often answered either ye speake things which are false or else if they bee true that which ye speake pertaineth not to the corne of Christ but to the chaffe thereof the Church doth not perish thereby which winnowed with most perfect iudgement shall bee purged by the separation of that same chaffe He addeth Ego ipsam ecclesiā requiro vbi sit quae audiendo verba Christi faciendo aedificat super petram audiendo faciendo tolerat eos qui audiendo non faciendo aedificant super arenam Vbi sit triticum quod inter zizania crescit vsque ad messem non quid fecerint vel faciant ipsa zizania Vbi sit proxima Christi in medio filiarum malarum sicut lilium in medio spinarum non quid fecerint vel faciunt ipsae spinae Vbi sunt pisces boni qui donec ad littus perueniant tolerant pisces malos pariter irretitos non fecerint aut faciant ipsi pisces mali That is to say I seeke the Church where she is which in hearing the words of Christ and doing them doth build vpon a rocke and which hearing and doing doth tolerate those which hearing and not dooing doo build vppon the sand Where that wheate is which groweth vp among the tares vntill the haruest come not what the tares haue done or what they doo Where that spouse of Christ is in the middest of the euill daughters as the lillie among the thornes not what the thornes haue done or what they doo Where the good fishes be which vntill they come vnto the shore doo tolerate the euill fishes held in the same nette together not what the euill fishes haue done or what they doo Thus haue I laide open that the Church in olde time was full of open wicked men both of ministers and people That the Donatists vnder the colour of zeale and seueritie against sinne did separate themselues affirming that all were polluted and fallen from the couenant which did communicate in the worship of god and Sacraments with such notorious euill men All men may see by that which I haue noted that the Donatists did maintaine this their opinion with the same Scriptures and argumēts that the Brownists doe maintaine it withall nowe And receiued the same answers to confute them which we make nowe to confute the Brownists This was the maine point of Donatisme and as it were the pith substance therof it is one of the foure chiefe pillers of Brownisme Yea but now the Brownists doe separate themselues from a worship which is Idolatrous full of blasphemies and abhominations The Donatists did rend themselues from an holy and true worship Indeede where the worship is Idolatrous and blasphemous a man is to separate himselfe But there are many and great corruptions before it come to that for it is the true worship of God where the foundation is layd and standeth sure If there be timber Hay and stubble built vpon the foundation the fault is great such things are not to bee approued But yet there is Gods true worship And now to come to the verie poynt of the matter I doe affirme wil stand to iustifie that there were greater corruptions in the worship of God euen in those Churches from which the Donatists did seperate themselues than be at this day in the worship of the Church of England So that if Brownisme be any thing to be excused in that the Donatisme may as iustly therein be defended For if wee consider matters which concerne doctrine what can any man shew so corrupt in this our Church as in the publike worship to pray for the soules of the dead and to offer oblations for the dead This corruption was generall in the Church then yea long before the dayes of Augustine as it appeareth in Cyprian and by Tertullian which was before him and nerer to the time of the Apostles who in his booke De Monogamia reasoning against second mariage for hee was fallen into that error woulde perswade any woman that had buried her husband not to marie againe because he being seperated from her in peace not diuorced she was to pray for his soule and yearely to offer oblation for him thus he writeth Et pro anima eius oret refrigerium interim ad postulet ei in prima resurrectione consortium offerat annuis diebus dormitionis eius That is And let her pray for his soule and craue refreshing for him nowe in the meane time and his felowship in the first resurrection and let her offer yearely vpon the day of his departure It will bee said by some ignorant man that this was but the minde and practise of some few which were corrupt and superstitious I answere it was the practise of the Church in generall and the corruption so auncient that the same Tertullian in his booke De corona militis speaking of it certain other things saith they were obserued by tradition from the Apostles they were obserued so generally in the Churches and no scripture to warrant them These bee his wordes Oblationes pro defunctis annua die facimus Wee make oblations for the dead in the yeerely day The doctrine of Purgatory
sinne therefore they that vse it are no Church Haue ye said no more but that it is an hainous sinne Haue you forgotten all your former sayings of Idolatrie bondage breaking Christian libertie most detestable standing vnder Gods wrath I hold him no Anabaptist nor Donatist which from such spéeches concludeth no true Church For I neuer heard that the true Church doth stand vnder Gods wrath The next wordes are sore Abaddon is the father of such Prophets saith Maister Greenewood because I say the Brownists maintaine such a fréedome as that will haue nothing imposed by commaundement I pray ye tell me whether you be one of those which set out the brief summe of the profession And when I had written against it I would knowe if ye were one that made the defence or approoued the same Did yee not approoue of the answers that goe vnder the name of Henrie Barrow Imposed is put for an argument by it selfe in those writings and so noted with a figure Could the very word imposed be an argument by it selfe if any imposing by commaundement bee lawfull in Gods worship If the ciuill Magistrates haue power but to reuiew the lawes of Christ and to mooue men or stirre them vp to the more diligent keeping of the same may they then impose by commaundement And as you speake here of that which is not onely receiued but also by commaundement as though there were great waight in the words by commaundement I pray ye tell me then what force ye repose in the words imposed and by commaundement when ye oppose them against Christian freedome Tell me also whether yee denie not that any Canons and constitutions made in Synods in matters variable are to be imposed by commandement If they be what is the reason that you Brownists when yee crie out against Church gouernment as it is in England speake in generall against Canons And a little after in this your booke ye denie all power of making lawes in things indifferent terming it an adding to Gods word and alleaging against it the extreame curse of God I graunt the Churches power is limitted by the word in making such lawes and so is the power of Princes There hath béen much sayd alreadie touching the Lords Praier and other prescript formes in the Scriptures but yet here come in newe reasons if I may so call them which are voide of reason Houtos is the same that the Hebrew Coh after this manner I answere that this hath béen dealt in before where ye must vnsay somewhat againe or else the words of the Scripture now written are not the words of the Lord but the like Further because Christ saith when ye pray if he willed we should say ouer y e words then should we euer when we pray say them To this I answere that respecting the rules for matters when ye pray when is as much as to say whensoeuer ye pray because we may not depart from those matters conteined in the general petitions But if we respect withall the prescript forme of words there is a double consideration to be had for in them selues they bee most excellent perfect and full and so brieflie doo containe the whole summe and substance of all thinges which we ought to craue of God as that nothing is wanting But our mind is not able so largelie or vnto such depth at one instant to spread or extend it selfe in desire as to bee mindfull of euery particular therein conteined And also we are more mooued as seuerall matters of néede doo presse vs to craue them particularlie Hereupon it doth followe that as on the one part it were agreat iniurie and hindrance that any man should binde vs when any particular néede vrgeth to begge reliefe onelie in the generall forme which includeth many things and not suffer vs to expresse the very particulars and singulars so on the other part to binde vs alwaies in such sort to the seuerall particulars that we may not at all vse the generals is very absurd and a disgrace to those most excellent petitions For by this it must needes followe that I may not say Let thy Kingdome come or forgiue vs our trespasses as we forgiue them that trespas against vs vntill the Brownists disprooue this he is fully conuict For if I may vse one petition of the generall heads when I pray I may vse anie one if any one then all The next argument which is brought is to this effect that if we be cōmaunded to say those words then should we sin in vsing any other forme for those being in y e best forme we are bound alwaies to bring the best sacrifice we haue or els we are accursed This reason I haue fully answered in that which went before for I haue shewed in what respect it is the most excellent absolute forme the best and can by no meanes without great absurditie yea wicked impietie be reiected withall what is necessarie and fit for vs. Now for conclusion let the Reader iudge whether I haue more need to leaue of as he saith my popish dreames or he his spirituall fantasies I am farre from maintaining that our Sauiour or his Apostles did stint or bynde men vnto certaine wordes which of necessitie they must vse and none other but this is the thing which the Brownistes must ioyne issue in with me whether I may not pray saying let thy kingdome come or if I may so vse the prescript forme of wordes in one petition whether I may not in any and so in all And heere let the Reader obserue that Maister Greenewood crying out for freedome complayning of a tradition that bringeth our libertie into bondage hee doth him selfe take away freedome and woulde lay a bondage vpon men and vpon the Churches For it is to lay a yoake of bondage when men will restraine that which God hath left free to bee vsed as shal be most conuenient and profitable for edification as to follow a prescript forme or to reade praying Among the Iewes in the time of the Law God tied them to the Temple and vnto certaine set howers for the Euening and Morning sacrifice but in this we are set free in the Gospell For I may lawfullie goe to the Temple to heare the word and to be partaker of the Sacraments with the assemblie and I may lawfullie frequent other places where the publike worship is The Churches may appoint the same howres for there meetings that were vnder the law if it be conuenient and they may appoint other if it shal be more fitte hee that in these shall take away the freedome which is giuen to the Churches doth lay a yoake of bondage In like case prescript forme of prayer to vse praying being an helpe to the weake and a thing sanctified of God and left free to the Church as neede shall require he that denieth that free vse doth lay a yoake of bondage And so I charge Maister Greenewood here to doe In the next place
A Plaine Declaration that our Brownists be full Donatists by comparing them together from point to point out of the writings of Augustine Also a replie to Master Greenwood touching read prayer wherein his grosse ignorance is detected which labouring to purge himselfe from former absurdities doth plunge himselfe deeper into the mire By George Gyffard Minister of Gods word in Maldon BY PEACE PLENTY BY WISDOME PEACE TO AT LONDON Printed for Toby Cooke dwelling at the Tygers head in Paules Churchyard 1590. TO THE RIGHT HOnorable Sir William Cecill Knight of the Garter Baron of Burghley Lord high Treasurer of England and Chauncellor of the Vniuersitie of Cambridge Grace and peace I Published a Booke Right Honourable against the Brownists who complaine of hard dealing and not onlie they but others in that I haue termed them Donatists and charge them with sundrie foule matters And hauing now receiued from them an answer vnto one part of that my booke I haue also framed this replie In which I first set downe from point to point out of the writings of the holie Father Augustine with what Scriptures and arguments it was defended and so compare our mens writings and doings with the same They must for this chuse either to affirme that the Donatists had the truth and the churches were perished or else shewe some materiall points of Donatisme which they doo not hold And then in the latter part of this my booke I answer to that which is published now by them against read prayer As I was bold to present the former vnto your Honor so do I also humblie offer this presuming vpon your Honors fauourable acceptation And thus I beseech the Lord God to blesse and prosper your Honor. Amen To the Reader GOod Christian reader I published a booke against the Brownists whom I haue in the same termed the Donatists of England How farre of I was from purposing anie such thing at the first and how I was drawne into it afterward I haue in that former booke truly reported And for warrant of my doing before the Lord I had no doubt but that it should bee an acceptable seruice to Christ notwithstanding when I respect the waightines and necessitie of the worke I haue alwaies wished and do wish that some man of greater learning might deale against thē Neither as yet am I cast into any thoughts of doubting by the mislike or fault finding of some in all places which are no Brownists But I am rather thrust forward by beholding that weakenes of iudgement and want of vnderstanding not in a feaw touching the foulnes of Donatisme and by the sight of such nerenes of multitudes vnto the danger which before I coulde not suspect Now touching the faultes which are found which causeth the mislike they are partelie for the matter it selfe and partlie for the manner of dealing both in it as also towards the persons themselues against whome I write In the matter some haue found fault as though I should stand to cleere to iustifie al things not onlie in the Booke of Common praier but also in the calling and ordination of our Ministers and in our Church gouernement others affirme that I haue diminished the faults which are esteemed to be in these and made them lighter at the least by not reproouing them The first sort I cannot but meruaile at seeing I haue in that my former booke set downe expressie in these words that the matter in question betweene the Brownists and me is not about the controuersie in our Church as whether there be imperfections corruptions and faults in our Worship Ministerie and Church gouernement nor how many great or smal but whether there be such heinous enormities as destroy the verie life and being of a true Church and make an vtter diuorse from Christ I doo then lay open the state of this question so plainelie as I know not how to make it more plaine now vnles I should run through euerie particular which wee deale in which I thought to be needlesse but now I will a little stand vpon it They reckon Romish fasts Ember dayes Saincts eues and Lent Idoll feasts as Alhallowes Candlemas seuerall Ladie daies Saincts daies dedicating Churches vnto Saints Comminations Rogations and Purifications Tithes Offerings Mortuaries howsling the sick with the Sacrament absolution and blasphemous dirges and funerall Sermons ouer and for the dead Corrupt manner of administring the Sacraments the Font the crosse in Baptisme Baptisme by women gossippings blasphemous and hereticall collects These and certaine other haue they set downe to bee in the Booke not vnder the termes of faults blemishes and corruptions but as heresies blasphemies and abominations and that such as ouerturne the foundation of the Christian faith destroy the substance of Gods worship and take away the life and beeing of a true Church To this I haue answered that they be foule slaunderours liars false accusers shewing that our Church hath renounced in those former things that which is blasphemous and hereticall or so abominable as that it approacheth neerest to the destroying of the faith and holy worship of the Lord. As namelie the remission of sinnes and merite of eternall life by fasting which is the doctrine of the Romish church The worship and inuocation of Saints and Angels the power of expelling Diuels by the signe of the crosse and such like things which the papacie is full of but reiected by vs. If the Brownists in their replie against that I haue written shall prooue by the word of God that there be great corruptiōs in our praiers in our fasts in our keeping the Saints dayes in the Crosse and in manie other things which bee in our Church as in our Ministerie and Church gouernemēt And further if their proofes be neuer so clere strong from the Scriptures yet they answere not me at al nor touch the question or controuersie between them and me vnles they can prooue them to be such faults as destroy the worship of God ouerturne the foundation of the faith and take away the verie life and being of true Christianitie If I say they do not prooue them according as they haue set thē downe to bee blasphemies heresies abominations yea the verie worship and yoake of Antichrist the marke of the beast and his power I remaine vnanswered and they stand conuicted as liars slanderers and most wicked false accusers not of particular persons but of whole Churches For I shewed in expresse wordes that I doo not meddle at all in these questions whether there bee corruptions and faults in our Church condemned by Gods word whether they bee manie or fewe whether they bee small or great but onelie thus farre whether they bee such or so great as make our Churches Antichristian Here therefore I doo intreate the Christian Reader to fixe his eyes in reading my writings and theirs onelie vppon this one question whether there be in our Church any errors or faults that be found amentall Looke if
seueritate That is Neither haue I therefore sayd this that the ecclesiasticall discipline should be neglected and that euery one should be suffered to do what he will without rebuke and without a certaine medicinable reuenge terrible lenittie and seueritie of loue In the 37. Chap. of the same booke hauing spoken of the corne and the chaffe mixed together the wheate and the tares growing together the good fishes and the had in the same nette together vnto the end of the world he then inferreth Nec propterea tamen ecclesiastica disciplina negligitur à constantibus diligentibus prudentibus dispensatoribus Christi vbi crimina ita manifest antur vt nulla possint probabili ratione defendi That is Notwithstanding the ecclesiasticall discipline is not therefore neglected of the constant diligent and wise dispensers of Christ where the crimes are manifested in such sort that they can in no probable maner be defended In the fourth Chapter of his booke after the conference with the Donatists taking aduantage of a saying which they vttered which was this Nec causae causa praeiudicat nec personae persona That is neither doth cause preiudicate cause neither one person another Hee saith that the cause and person of the tares doth not preiudicate the cause and person of the wheat growing together in the same field vntill the haruest come The cause and person of the chaffe doth not preiudicate the cause and person of the corne beeing together in the same floare vntill the last winnowing The cause and person of the goates doth not preiudicate the cause and person of the sheepe kept together in the same pastures vntill the great shepheard shall separate them to the right hand and to the left in the last day The cause and person of the euill fishes doth not preiudicate the cause and person of the good fishes though they bee held in the same nette to be separated in the last shoare Then he addeth Quibus parabolis figuris ecclesia praenunciata est vsque in finem seculi bonos malos simul habitura ita vt nec mali bonis obesse possint cum velignorantur vel pro pace tranquillitate ecclesiae tolerantur si eos prodi aut aâ—cusari non oportuerit aut alijs bonis non potuerit demonstrari ita sanè vt nec emendationis vigilantia quiescat corripiendo degradando excommunicando caeterisque coertionibus licitis atque concessis quae salua vnitatis pace in ecclesia quotidie fiunt secundum praeceptum Apostolicum charitate seruata qui dixit si quis autem non obaudit verbo nostro per epistolam hunc notate nolite commisceri cum eo vt erubescat non vt inimicum existimetis sed corripite vt fratrem Sic enim disciplina seruat patientiam patientia temperat disciplinam vtrumque refertur ad charitatem ne fortè aut indisciplinata patientia foueat iniquitatem aut impatiens disciplina dissipet vnitatem That is to say By which parables and figures the Church is foreshewed that it shall haue the good and the bad together vnto the ende of the world so as the euil cannot hurt the good when either they are not knowne or else are tolerated for the peace and tranquilitie of the Church if it be not behoueful that they shal be manifested or accused or that it cannot be shewed to others that be good euen so verelie as yet the watchfulnesse of redressing may in no wise rest in rebuking degrading excommunicating and in other lawfull and allowable restraints which the peace of vnitie receiuing no dammage are daylie practised in the Church without any hindrance or breach of loue according to the Apostles precept which sayd If any obey not our word note him by an Epistle and haue no fellowship with him that he may bee ashamed and esteeme him not as an enemie but admonish him as a brother For in so doing the discipline doth keepe patience and patience doth temper the discipline and both are referred vnto charitie least either vndisciplined patience should foster iniquitie or impatient discipline might dissolue and scatter the vnitie Thus farre Augustine by which words he sheweth that albeit the good and the bad shall alwaies euen to the end of the world bee mixed together on heapes in the Church so that oftentimes open sinners cannot bee all cast foorth without daunger of schisme and therefore are to be tollerated for the peace of the Church yet the discipline is not to sleepe but sinners are to bee rebuked such as beare publike office if they deserue are to be degraded and depriued The notorious wicked are to bee excommunicated where the multitude is not guiltie with them but that they may be forsaken of all and so made ashamed but loue according to the rule of Saint Paule is to sit at the stearne and to order the whole matter least the seueritie of chasticing discipline if it were not mixed and tempered or as I may say delaied with patience might breed tumults and schismes and separations or least on the other side if tollerating patience were not sharpened by the seueritie of discipline it might nourish all manner of wickednes We see then what was the practise of the auncient Churches and that touching the Ecclesiasticall censures the mixture of patience and seueritie whollie referred vnto loue doo make a soueraigne plaister and medicine to salue and cure the sores of the Church Where these be not tempered together there is great decay for as the rigorous seueritie of Donatisme without any aswaging the heate of seueritie with the mixture of loue and patient tolleration doth rend vp and furiouslie teare all in peeces so doth ouermuch or a loose sufferance for it deserueth not the name of patience not regarding Gods honor nor mens saluation suffer the Lords field to ouergrowe with tares and fill the Lords Courts with Goates and Swine whereby holie things are greatlie prophaned the weake are made to stumble and many are cast downe Touching this first point then in controuersie betwéene the Donatists and the Churches I will conclude it with that which Augustine writeth in his treatise De vnitate Ecclesiae Chapt. 16. where hauing shewed in the former parts of the same booke that the controuersie was not about the head which is Christ but about the bodie which is his Church For touching the head they agreed and touching the bookes of holie Scripture and their authoritie there was no dissent at all betweene the Donatists and them Then further he commeth to this poynt that as Christ the head is to bee sought for and knowne onlie in the Canonicall Scriptures so the Church which is his bodie is likewise to be sought for found out and iudged onely by the same bookes of Scripture Then he calleth for triall not by those darke places of the Byble which are spoken in figures and may be expounded diuers waies in probable sense but from the manifest cléere
of prayer is conuenient and needefull for edification there it is commanded Now let the reader obserue againe your words which are that al our ministers must leaue reading their stincted praiers vpon the booke or else stand vnder Gods wrath and all that so praye with them Master Greenewood complaineth of great iniury wheÌ„ I gather from his words that he condemneth all Churches because hee knoweth that is a matter sufficient alone to bewray the wickednes of Brownisme Now if all our Ministers which pray vpon the booke and the people that pray with them stand vnder the wrath of God for this thing then cannot they be the Church of God for GOD loueth his Church and all Churches haue prescript formes of prayer which their Ministers vse therfore they all stand vnder Gods wrath But they doo it ignorantlie will he say and so say I did all our Churches vntill his papers came abroad and manie haue not as yet seene them and some that haue seene them are not perswaded and so are ignorant still The next thing ye deale with is the Argument which I drawe from the singing Psalmes vpon the booke it is so cleere they did sing them vpon the booke that the Brownist himselfe cannot denie it It is also most manifest they did sing them as hee also now confesseth to God for so are we commaunded in many places sing praises to God Then further he that offereth vp praise to God reading it cannot be gainsaide but that he offereth vp a spirituall sacrifice to God reading Yea praise is one parte of prayer and it is as hard a thing to speake praises to God vpon the booke as to craue by petitions vpon the booke and as spirituall a worke and I may say a more high seruice where is then that grosse fantasie of Master Greenewood which because reading is one thing and speaking to God is another saith a man cannot both read and speake to God at once He cannot say O my God when he readeth but O my booke why art thou so euill printed I argue if the people of God in olde time did both reade the Psalmes vpon the booke and speake vnto the Lord at the same instant how should it not now bee both possible and lawfull for to speake vnto God in praiers while one readeth Hée saieth I denie your Argument I say that is not sufficient to denie the Argument let vs therefore sée the reasons of the deniall Admitte that singing were a part of praier sayeth he yet dooth it not follow that all praier may bee read vpon the booke we must take this vpon your bare word at least such as will may beléeue yée I stand to affirme that one part of praier is as spirituall a worke as another thereupon I also affirme that if one part may bee read vppon the booke and no turning the worke of the spirite into an Idoll no stâ—nting the spirite no quenching the spirit no Idolatrie no hindrance but that hee which readeth may speake vnto God it may be so in any other part And let vs see what hee will bee able to disprooue this withall But hee saieth I speake like an ignorant man to say that singing is praier because they be two diuers actions and exercises of our faith The one neuer read for the other nor saide to be a parte of the other throughout the Scriptures but are plainelie distinguished As I will praye with the Spirite I will pray with vnderstanding I will sing with the spirit I will sing with vnderstanding saith Saint Paul I answer you could no where more vntimelie accuse mee of ignorance then where your owne speech in this and that which followeth next is patched vp with errors almost as thick as the patches vpon a beggars cloake And for answere I say first that Saint Paul dooth distinguish them there is great reason not onelie because the verie singing it selfe is not praier no more then reading or speaking but also that there bee manie praiers which are not song and manie Psalmes and songs which are no formes of praier nor the spéech directed to God a prayer that is no psalme is neuer called a psalme nor any reason why it should but a Psalme that is a praier is called both a Psalme and a praier The Psalme 86. is called Tephillah a praier and consisteth of sundrie petitions The Psalme 90. is so called being the praier of Moses Psalme 102. is called Tephillah leaaui the praier for the poore when hee is in perplexitie and powreth foorth his meditatioÌ„ before the Lord. The people praying for Christs Kingdome did vse to say Hosanna Blessed is he that commeth in the name of the Lord. Psal 118. The Psalme 50. and 119. with many other conta ne petitions almost in euery verse which if a man did pray or desire them earnestly singing it was no Idolatrie singing I graunt is not called praier but men might sing Psalmes to God and were commanded which contained praises and petitions but they were giuen to the Church to be song or read in y e forme of praier saith he but denieth y t this was to be done praying He not only confesseth they were to sing theÌ„ vnto God but also saith the Lord keep me froÌ„ such an error as to denie that yet eueÌ„ in this coÌ„fession falleth into as grose a matter for what can bee more absurd than that a man should vtter and speake euen vnto God that which is a prayer and yet might not pray as when out of the Psalm 118. praying for the kingdome of Christ they cried Hosanna blessed is he that commeth in the name of the Lord or when for some speciall benefite the whole Church was to sing prayse to God and had a prescript forme deliuered vnto them were they to mocke with God and not to speak prayses vnto him indeede from the heart and with chearefulnes or did God commaund them to doe two things which cannot bee done at once or wil any deny that many in singing though the singing it selfe be not praying doe giue hearty thankes to God where thanksgiuing is expressed and craue earnestly when they vtter petitions Master Greenewood doth grieuously complaine of me for doing him foule wrong in saying he denieth that the Psalmes are to be sung to God And what other thing in effect doth he vtter here when hee saith they were not to vtter the wordes of a Psalme to God praying But I willset downe his first words which are these The same may be sayde for the hundreth and second Psalme for although some haue taken it as a prayer of the Prophet when he was in affliction yet may I graunt with you to be taken in the future tense and auoyd that superstition you would fall into for if it had beene giuen vnto the Church to haue beene read as a prayer vnto God it should haue beene saide O Lord heare our prayer and let our crie come vnto thee And therefore it is manifest that
heretofore when such prescript formes were alleadged prooue that those wordes were to be saide ouer to God but now being conuinced and confessing that some Psalmes were song to God and for feare least bidding mee prooue againe that the prescript forme was followed when they spake to GOD I should againe charge ye openly to denie the singing of Psalmes to God which I haue shewed yee doe couertly ye seeke another shift and say your Minor proposition which is that I stand to disprooue speaketh of the reading for praying and not of the forme of prayer This is poore stuffe seeing we reason about prescript forme and reading the same praying I do not say that the reading it selfe is praying but I haue prooued that they went together and whether there were cōmandement to followe the prescript formes or not in the blessing for the Priestes to vse In the prayer prescribed for the people to say at the offring the first fruites and in some of the Psalmes whether it be not also lawful to say the Lords prayer praying let wise men iudge Nowe where as I saide the Brownistes doe condemne all Churches by these three arguments against read prayers Maister Greenewood at this is in no small heate as his speech doth shewe for if hee coulde dippe his words tenne times deeper in gall it appeareth hee woulde not spare I trust saith he your madnesse will appeare vnto all men the poyson of Aspes is vnder your tongue But Maister Greenewood If I haue saide the truth which is iustifiable by your owne speeches your sober minde is not to bee boasted off And if your sentence include all Churches what milke and honie doth flow from vnder your lippes Heere is much a doe this man layeth about him as if he were halfe madde but that he is blindfolde I could not escape some sounde blowes Here he hath vp the begger with his clappe dish and the Priest with his Masse booke canuesing ouer the Paternoster for their bellie Here he saith I breath out my accustomed lies slaunders and raylings calling them Brownists and Donatists here he detesteth Donatus his heresies Browne and the Brownists he saith are ours hee willeth mee to remember who is the Father of such vntruthes when I say they condemne al reformed Churches but because my conscience as hee saith did witnesse I had wrongfullie charged him and for him all true Christians I bring it in by necessarie consequence Now if the heate be any thing past heare a little what I saye shewe that I haue any way slaundred ye or rayled vpon yee in that I haue termed you Brownists and Donatists and let mee haue open shame among all men I haue affirmed that the very pith of all your matter is from Maister Brownes bookes conuince mée therein if yee can I haue now published that Brownisme and Donatisme are all one let any Brownist in the land confute me The theefe will not abide to be so called but will say I defie all theeues doth that cleare him when he liueth by theeuerie what are you the better to say I detest the heresies of Donatus and yet holde all that he helde and know not what ye say nor what the heresies of Donatus were more then doth a post shew openly that ye renounce those thinges I haue noted to bée the furies of the Donatists then yee may crie out that ye are slaundred And now for condemning al Churches will ye denie that which is concluded by necessarie consequence from your words Is that against conscience which is brought in by necessarie consequence Ye would seeme to make light of it in this respect that a multitude is not to bee followed to doo euill when ye condemne all Churches but yet it doth sting ye so neere that by no meanes ye can abide to heare of it Thus I did reason and thus I reason still without any witnesse of conscience against me You affirme prescript formes of prayer brought into the publike assemblies to bée the changing the worke of the spirit into an Idoll a tradition breaking Christian libertie and therefore a thing most detestable a dead letter which doth quench the spirit but all reformed Churches haue prescript forme of prayer imposed therefore yee condemne all Churches I am glad your booke may bee seene of all men that they may iudge the soundnes of that answere by which ye would cleere your selfe Ye cannot goe from your first words they be spread in the hands of so many but ye should shame your selfe Ye replie therefore againe that the true Churches might erre in this and yet remaine Churches of God This is strange that ignorance should excuse men that worship an Idoll in stead of God that take away the Christian libertie from the consciences of men and doo that which is most detestable What doo the Papists more than these or what can they bee charged withall which is worse than that which is most detestable And haue ye not set downe now in this your booke in replying vpon the second Argument that all our Ministers must leaue reading their stinted prayers or else stand vnder Gods wrath and all that pray with them How are the Ministers and people of other Churches priuiledged from standing vnder Gods wrath hauing read prayers imposed leiturgies and as you terme them stinted prayers or tell me are they the Churches of God that stand vnder his wrath Now remember who is the father of lyes Well your meaning was not to condemne the Churches nor to meddle with them Why then doo ye giue such sentence of condemnation which reacheth vnto them Tel me but this is there any Brownist which is a disciple and giueth credite vnto ye in this matter that read prayer is most detestable and that such as ioyne in it stand vnder Gods wrath which yet durst ioyne himselfe or might ioyne himselfe vnto any assemblie in the world euen the most reformed Tell me either you or any other chiefe Brownist will say they may pray with any assembly where they follow a prescript forme If ye dare not say this I meane that ye would counsell men to ioyne with a Church that hath read prayer but say they must reprooue and condemne it and if it were not redressed forsake them then bee also ashamed so furiouslie to crie out vpon me which speake nothing herein that I say ye condemne all churches but that which all indifferent men must néedes sée your owne wordes and doctrine doe vpholde As for your bitter accusations vpon no shewe I leaue them and whereas ye require that if I haue any sparkle of grace I would procure that ye might decide the trueth with other Churches I answere that if ye had any sparke of sober wisdome ye could not with such condition lay that vpon me which ye knowe not howe vnable I am to performe You say you might iustly be called an Anabaptist if you shoulde reason thus Imposing of mens writings to be read for praying is an heinous
horrible things in his blinde furie doth he charge all Churches withall For first when he saith that for matters of order and circumstance there can be no other lawes made of them thā Christ hath made he seeth not the difference betweene the giuing generall rules of charitie of come liues and order which serue for edification that are to be followed in making lawes touching matters in themselues merely indifferent and the very particular lawes thēselues that are so to be made Thē if it be true which he saith the matters of order and circumstance are not variable but stand fixed as inuiolable lawes of Christ in the particulars to be obserued which is false seeing these circumstances are no part of Gods worship As Paul saith The Kingdome of God is not meate and drinke c. but as handmaids to attend vpon it and to adorne it and so are vsed and not vsed as occasion serueth I haue shewed this before in some particulars as that the assemblies are in time of peace gathered in temples and fixed places and open in time of persecution and tumult in the fields in woods and secret places which they change and at the commandement of the pastors and gouernours the wise reader may consider the like not onelie for kneeling and such like but in many other And we sée that the Apostles themselues did decree some things for the time which afterward were to bee altered when the occasion was taken away as namelie to auoide giuing offence to y e weak Iewes which stuck in the ceremonies of the lawe they made this decree Act. 15. That the gentiles should absteine from blood and from strangled We doo not now obserue this decree of the Apostles neither are we to obserue it séeing the occasion is remooued for which it was made Furthermore if there be no lawes to be made in matters of circumstance how shal the flockes knowe what to follow or to obserue where the pastors shall dissent and varie in iudgement Sall not some be rent into one part and some into another Now when hee saith this is to pleade for vnwritten verities to make the Lawe of God vnsufficient to adde to the word alleaging those Scriptures which shew how cursed a thing that is hee dooth but ignorantlie abuse those Scriptures and wickedlie seduce the simple sorte of men For those Scriptures are against the adding of humaine precepts and lawes to be kept as parts of Gods worship to binde the conscience to séeke righteousnes and the forgiuenes of sinnes or the merite of eternall life in them or against such rules of gouernement as God hath set to bee perpetuall This is against the perfection of the word against Christian libertie and in the chiefe things which concerne Gods worship against the ground and foundation of our faith and so a thing most detestable and accursed which our sauiour also and his Apostles refused iustlie to obserue with the blinde Pharisies But now where the Brownist hath his eyes so daseled with that pillar of fire which hee saieth they haue before them that he cannot perceiue that to make and constitute lawes in matters of circumstance for comelines and order according to the generall rules of the Scripture and not to binde the conscience is no adding to the word nor mixing Gods worship with mans inuentions he is much to be pittied And doubtles before this pillar of fire bee remooued which is not the heauenlie light of Gods spirite but a frantick presumption by which the diuell dooth delude men and blinde them with their swelling he shall neuer see well Some will say if these constitutions be not to binde the conscience of men why are men forced to keepe them Why should the discipline and censures of the Church driue men thereunto In déede this is that which the freedome of the Brownists can at no hand indure To answer this the reader must consider what is the binding of the conscience It is not to say simplie yee must for conscience sake doo it or yee are bounde for conscience sake to doo it for then all the humaine constitutions and lawes of princes may be saide to binde the conscience because Saint Paul willeth to obey them for conscience Rom. 13. But by binding the conscience is meant that such lawes are laid vpon the conscience to bee obserued as part of the worship of God when men are punished for not keeping them as contemning Gods worship then is the Christian libertie withstoode But when y e discipline censures of the Church doo compel men to obserue the lawes which in matters of comlines and order are made according to the rules of the Apostle they are not punished for dooing or not doing the things themselues but that by dooing that which is forbidden or refusing to doo that which is commaunded they disturb the peace bréede diuisions and offence disobey where they are commanded obedience these bee sinnes and for these men are to be punished This is where the orders be not against the word of God but fitte for edification And now to conclude about this matter all the Churches of God vnder heauen doe make such lawes such Canons and constitutions in matters of circumstance and by their discipline compell both Ministers and people to obey the same The Brownist alleageth against this not only the sentences Prouerbs 30. vers 5. 6 and Deut. 4. vers 12. 32. but also Reuela 22. vers 18. 19. Where the Lorde threatneth that he that shall adde to the words of that Prophesie he will put vpon him the Plagues written in that booke Tell me now Maister Greenewood doe ye yet condemne all Churches Ye do affirme that they which make anie lawes doe adde to the worde of God and alleage against them that God will put vpon them the plagues written in that booke which is a denouncing of the extreame wrath of God for there is the lake of fire set foorth If yee were not quite beside your selfe how could you thus hurle your dartes of extreame condemnation and strike all churches and yet when I tell yee of it crie out that I am a liing Prophet and will me to remember who is the father of vntrueths But least I may seeme to father that vpon the Churches which is farre from them I wil note somewhat out of the harmonie of confessions Section 17. The latter Heluetian confession saith Quod in Ecclesijs dispares inueniuntur ritus nemo Ecclesias existimet ex eo esse dissidentes That there are vnlike rites or ceremonies found in the Churches let no man iudge hereby that the Churches dissent And the confession of Bohemia hath Quare illi tantum ritus illaeque ceremoniae bonae seruari debent quae in populo Christiano vnicam veram fidem sincerúmque cultum Dei concordium charitatem veram atque Christianam se◠religiosam pacem aedificant Siue igitur ab episcopis siue a consilijs Ecclesiasticis aut à quibuscumque aucthoribus
I haue in this point by denying that there bee swarued from the sacred word of God from the iudgement of the holie Churches and writings of the most worthy noble instruments which God hath at all times giuen to be the guides and lights in the same And if it can be prooued that I haue gone awrie from the trueth but an heire breadth I will reuoke it for trueth is to bee bowed vnto and reuerenced wheresoeuer shee sheweth her sweete face of all that looke to haue any part in her Marke also their writings as they shall come foorth and see wherein they can conuince me of any error falsehood or corruption touching this one forenamed question vnto which they are to be held seeing we set all other controuersies aside Then touching the second sorte which finde fault about handling the matter as if that I should mitigate or make lighter the faults of our Churches at least in this that I do not reprehend them To this I answer first that vnles it can bee shewed that our Church is guilty in some of those crimes which I stand to clere it in I see no reason why I shoulde bee charged to make things lighter which I medle not withall further than in shewing that they be not fundamentall Secondlie I intreate al men to consider that I stand to defend a Church and not the infirmities or offences of a Church in which as there be many bad mēbers so the best are traile If a godlie man because of some apparant sinnes should be accused to be an Atheist an infidell a traitor or a most vile and filthie wretch might not he clere himselfe of such horrible crimes but it must be saide he dooth mittigate his owne infirmities or make them lighter Thirdlie I doo request them to consider the state of our people how speedelie verie manie are carried into great euils and dangers though not all in the same degree I am of this minde that where any thing is amisse in Gods Church it is the part and duetie of the faithfull Ministers of Christ all dutifull reuerence and submission being obserued towards Magistrates publique authoritie peaciblie to seeke redresse of the same with godlie and charitable reprehension I doo also holde that euery christian man is wiselie and soberly with the like deuties of reuerence submission and peaceable behauiour obserued to seeke to haue his conscience informed in all matters which may any way concerne himselfe But we see how farre some haue swarued and doo swarue from this For the rule of charitie and christian dueties being neglected the vttet disgrace and contempt of men is sought and that on either part The warre is made as deadlie as if the grounds of christianitie were in question while some passing the bounds of modestie others doo replie against them after the same manner Our Sauiour saith Satan dooth not cast foorth Satan and shall we thinke then that sinne shall cast foorth sinne Such as condemne and abhorre Schisme and errors and inordinate dealing must bee burthened and reproached with the same notwithstanding which is iniurious And what is in the mouthes of many against this but that the Papists then may as well be excused which condemne Master Luther and other as the fathers of heretiks because swarmes of Anabaptists did followe immediatelie vpon their preaching the Gospel When shall we then here come to an end There wil bee contention in the Church and humaine frailtie hath shewed it selfe this way euen among the holie teachers of old to the sharp reprehension and in manner reproaching one of another as Master Beza noteth in the Epistle of his Booke against Erastus but godlie men when they haue somewhat gone awrie seek to amend their fault by subduing their passions Now looke also vpon the people where wee may see verie many who not regarding the chiefe christian vertues godlie dueties as namelie to be meek to be patient to be lowlie to be full of loue and mercie to deale vprightlie and iustly to guide their families in the feare of God with wholsome instructions and to stand fast in the calling in which God hath set them giue thēselues wholy to this euen as if it were the summe and pith of religion namelie to argue and talke continuallie against matters in the Church against Bishops and Ministers and one against another on both sides Some are proceeded to this that they will come to the assemblies to heare the Sermons and praiers of the Preacher but not to the praiers of the booke which I take to be a more grieuous sinne than manie doo suppose But yet this is not the worst for sundrie are gone further and fallen into a damuable Schisme and the same so much the more feareful dangerous in that manie do not see the foulenes of it but rather holde them as godlie Christians and but a little ouershot in some matters The sore is grieuous and the wound is deepe as I haue small ioy to behold it so haue I lesse desire to make it deeper wishing from my heart that it might rather be cured Such as bee of another minde either in this or in any thing that I haue writtē I craue of them that they wil giue me leaue according to the doctrine and rule of the Apostle fraterne dissentire to dissent in some thing without the breach and hindrance of brotherly loue For as I do greatlie esteeme that rule of S. Paul let as manie as be perfect be thus minded if any be otherwise minded God will reueale it But so farre as we are come let vs proceed by one rule to be like affectioned Phil. 3. so do I much lament to see it almost vtterly neglected and the breach of loue concord as violent among many for euery matter wherein they dissent as if some ground of christianity were in question between them I do not meane that a man ought to consent vnto any error or vnto any euill committed by others or to neglect the instructing and admonishing as his place and calling dooth require But I had rather as one saith answer to God if I must giue account for mercie rather than for rigour and seueritie I knowe there be faults in extremities on both sides as on the one side vnder a perswasion of loue a man may be ouer fauorable in esteeming and bearing as brethren such as hold the foundations of the faith and yet erre in some things and haue great faultes so on the other side vnder a perswasion of zeale against all falsehood and wickednes they may fall into an vncharitable rigour as very many doo The nature of man is more prone to this latter and the fall is more grieuous than in that former few are carried with aboundance of godly loue to offend in ouer fauorable iudging their brethren and because the elect of God haue great infirmities the Scripture doth not warrant men to be rigorous in condemning if a man holding the hatred zeale
concerning read prayer peruse it throughlie and then iudge whether I haue charged him wrongfullie in any matter I do lament that many of our people which haue been hearers of the Gospell should be so ignorant as to suck in such dregs as he offereth Now to conclude there are two things which deceiue many which I desire thē to consider one is that they are caried away with many true and notable sentences of Scripture worthie principles which the Brownists set down not considering or not espying how they from them doo draw out false assumptions and thereupon cōclude that which is vntrue The other is that they looke not vpō that which followeth vppon their wordes by consequence but stand vpon this O they hold no such thing they haue wrong Master Greenwood crieth out that he doth not condēneal Churches he denieth not that the psalmes are to be sung to God he saith not that the regenerate do not sin he hath no such meaning he hath wrong But mark if I haue done him any wrong at all looke vpon his sayings and vpon that which must needes followe vpon them The other Brownists crie out of the like wrōgs Iudge not vntil both ye heare wherein they haue wrong and see mine answer If I haue charged them with matter which either their words doo not expresse or that followeth not from them by necessarie consequence let me then bee iudged rash and vncharitable FINIS That the Brownists are full Donatists NO Apostle no Prophet no Euangelist no true pastor or teacher can haue his owne name put vpon the Disciples which he gathereth but as they bee all gathered onely by Christes doctrine and vnto Christ alone according as it is written one is your Doctor euen Christ Matth. 23. so are they onely by his title called Christians But it hath béen the manner of olde and euen from the time of the Apostles in Gods Church when any wicked schisme or heresie hath sprung vp to call the scholers and followers by the names of the first masters of the same and chiefe leaders As of Montanus the Montanists of Nouatius the Nouatians of Arrius the Arrians of Pelagius the Pelagians of Donatus the Donatists of the Pope the Papists c. And who shall reprehend this as vaine or condemne it as a thing vniust seeing wee followe his example who saith to the Angell of the Church of Pergamus Reuel 2. Thou hast them which hold the doctrine of the Nicholaitanes Now there is a sect in England commonly called Brownists not because Browne was the first originall of it but for that he hath written and published bookes in maintenance and enlargement thereof and with more skill and learning than others which either as yet haue followed or gone before him Many men thinke that they bee sprung vp but of late whereas in very déede it is well knowne there was a Church of them in London 20. yeares past and one Bolton a principall doer therein whose fearefull end is not forgotten I haue termed them the Donatists of England How iustly and how charitablie and with what due consideration it standeth me now vpon to shewe least the ignoranter sort of such as somewhat fauour them should imagine that I haue iniuriouslie and falselie giuen them this odious title to worke their vniust discredite For Donatisme in olde time about twelue hundred yeares past was condemned as a detestable proud Schisme and heresie that began at Carthage in Aphrica and was vehementlie withstood by the faithfull Pastors and cut downe by the holie Scriptures as no learned godlie man will denie The holie Father Augustine was the chiefe that did ouerthrowe them as his writings which are extant answering to their writings at large doo declare Now my purpose at this time is to compare them together the Donatists and the Brownists from point to point out of the writings of Augustine If it fall out cléere and manifest that they agree together as euen as two peeces of cloath that are of the same wooll the same threed colour working breadth and that an Egge is no liker to an Egge than they be each to other I hope all that be sober minded will not blame me for giuing them the same title Their originall first of the Donatists I meane and how they cut off themselues is to bee noted set foorth which was this From the birth of our Sauiour Christ for the space of thrée hundred yeares more there were euer anon great and greeuous persecutions raised vp against the Church by the Romane Emperours vntill the Emperour Constantine the great imbraced the holie Gospell and gaue peace to the Christians In those daies of persecution such as through feare or otherwise did deliuer to the cruell persecutors either the bookes of the holie Scriptures that they might burne and deface them or the vessells appointed for holie vse in the publike assemblies that they might carrie them away or the names of the brethren that they might finde them out such I say were called traditores that is deliuerers or traitors There was a rumour that such offence had béen by some committed as no doubt it was by many Now as Augustine reporteth in his Psalme against the Donatists there came certaine Bishops from Numidia vnto Carthage a famous Citie in Aphrica to ordeine a Bishop and found Caecilianus alreadie ordeined and placed in the Seate then were they wroth that they could not ordeine They ioyned together and layd a crime vpon Caecilianus They say his ordeiner deliuered the holie bookes and was a traitor whereupon they will haue him reputed no Minister of Christ but the sonne of a traitor There was no assemblie of the learned Pastors for to iudge in this case according to Christes ordinance and discipline the accused and the accuser did not stand foorth for triall There were no witnesses produced to prooue the crime neither were matters scanned by the Scriptures But furor dolus tumultus that is furie deceipt and tumult did beare the sway as Augustine sheweth in the same his Psalm They assembled which were the accusers and Caecilianus is condemned being absent by Tigisitanus Secundus as hée sheweth in his first booke against Parmenian Chap. 3. and in his third booke against Cresconius Chap. 40. Now was there great stirre and deuision begun Donatus he steppeth foorth and requireth of the Emperour Constantine to haue Iudges not of Aphrica out beyond the seas to heare the crime which was to be obiected against Caecilianus The Emperour appointed that the matter should bee heard at Rome where Caecilianus was cléered and Donatus and his part receiuing repulse appealed accusing Meltiades then Bishop of Rome that he was also traditor as Augustine reporteth in his first booke against Parmenian Chapt. 5. and so they require to haue the cause heard by the Emperour vnto whom they had appealed where hauing also the repulse as false accusers they say y e Emperour was corrupted through fauour They made a
separation from Caecilianus and those that claue to him The deuision grewe greater and greater they had assemblies and Bishops on Donatus part in processe of time in great number They condemned not only the Church at Carthage and the neighbour Churches in Aphrica as guiltie therewith but all Churches through the world as wrapped together in the guiltines of those Churches of Aphrica They pronounced them all polluted vncleane abominable and vtterlie fallen from the Couenant of God through the pollution of such as had committed sacrilege and were not seperated They said there were no Ministers of Christ no Sacraments so no true Church among them but heapes of wicked polluted sacrilegious persons whose teachers were all generations of traitors Iudasses persecutors of Gods Saints and that as many as would bee saued must seperate themselues and ioyne with the pure selected companie of Donatus And for these respects they baptized again all such as fell vnto them as not being baptized before but polluted with a prophane washing Now through the shew of burning zeale and stiffe rigorous seueritie in condemning sinne and by the vehement outcries which they made that the discipline was not duely executed in as much as the prophane were mingled together in the assemblies with y e pure and no seperation made many of the people not well settled and grounded in the trueth were terrified and turned vnto them taking them to be most zealous holie men and the onlie true Church in earth and with excéeding bitternesse condemned all other as abominable Idolaters and cursed traytors whose worship God abhorred It was before the daies of Augustine that this sect began and in his time was greatlie spread And when he wrote that it was against all equitie to condemne as they did at the first the whole world for the sinne of Caecilianus because if he were guiltie yet the Churches farre off knew not so much but might rather iudge him cléere being cléered in iudgement They maintained the matter to prooue that there were no true flocks nor pastors after another sort and did affirme that as the Church of Carthage and the Churches elsewhere in Aphrica were fallen from God by the pollution of the sacrilege of Caecilianus and other so all other Churches in the world were destroyed by the like sacrileges committed in the daies of persecution by wicked men among them whose sinnes were open and knowne and no seperation made For thus speaketh Parmenian a Donatist Bishop as Augustine doth set it downe in his first booke against him and third Chapter Dicit etiam Parmenianus hinc probari consceleratum fuisse orbem terrarum criminibus traditionis aliorum sacrilegiorum quia cum multa talia fuerint tempore persecutionis admissa nulla propterea facta est in ipsis prouincijs separatio populorum That is Parmenian also saith that from hence it is prooued that the world hath been together made wicked or hainouslie polluted with the crimes of treason and of other sacrileges because when many such things were done in the time of persecution there was no seperation of the people made for the same in the Prouinces Marke well this saying of Parmenian the Donatist for it doth expressie set downe the ground of Donatisme The words of Petilian another Donatist Bishop to prooue all the Ministers of the Churches to be but successors of traitors as Augustine doth report them in his second booke against him Chapt. 8. are many I will onely recite the chiefe of them This Petilian hauing before saide that he which is baptized by one that is dead his washing doth profite him nothing then procéedeth to shewe how farre as he saith an vnfaithfull traitor may be accompted dead while he liueth And for this be frameth a comparison betwéene Iudas and the Pastors of the Church condemning them as the worse For after he hath set forth that Iudas was an Apostle when he betraied Christ and spirituallie dead when he had lost the honour of an Apostle and as it was foretold by Dauid that another should haue his place so Matthias succéeded him in the Apostleship He would haue no foole here dispute that Matthias dare away triumph and not iniurie which by the victorie of Christ had the spoyle of the traitor Then he demandeth how canst thou by this déede challenge to thy selfe the office of a Bishop being the heire of a more wicked traitor Iudas Christum carnalem tradidit tu spiritualem furens Euangelium sanctum flammis sacrilegis tradidisti Iudas betraied Christ carnal thou spirituall being in furie thou hast deliuered the holie Gospell to the fire Iudas legislatorem tradidit perfidis tu quasi eius reliquias legem dei perdendā hominibus tradidisti Iudas betraied the lawgiuer to the wicked thou hast betraied as it were his reliques the lawe of God vnto mē to be destroied Si hominis mortui testamentū flammis incenderes nonne falsarius punireris quid de te ergo futurum est qui sanctissimam legem dei iudicis incendisti If thou shouldest burne the will of a dead man shouldest thou not bee punished as a falsifier what then shall become of thee which hast burnt the most holie lawe of GOD the Iudge Iudam facti vel in morte poenituit te non modò non poenitet verumetiam nequissimus traditor nobis legem seruantibus persecutor carnifex existis Iudas repented him of his deed at least in death but thou doest not onely not repent but also being a most wicked traitor remainest a persecutor and a tormentor of vs that keepe the lawe Cresconius a Grammarian one as it seemeth that taught some Grammar schoole tooke vpon him to write against Augustine in the defence of Petilian or rather of the whole Donatisme and he laieth to the charge of Caecilianus the vnpardonable sinne against the holie Ghost in betraying the scriptures to the persecutors vsing this argument Holie men of God deliuered them as they were led by the holie Ghost Augustine in the 4. booke against Cresconius Chapt. 8. Petilian though otherwise full of great bragging being verie vnwilling to haue open disputation in any open assembly of learned men vsed this arrogant speach Indignum est vt in vnum conueniant filij martyrum progenies traditorum It is an vnworthie thing that the sonnes of the Martyres and the generations of traitors should be assembled together Thus much may suffice for this poynt Where we see that the Donatists departed disorderlie out of the Church condemning it not for any poynt of doctrine for therein they did not disagree but for that many which in the time of persecution dissembled many which reuolted and to saue their liues did sacrifice to the Idolls many which deliuered the bookes of holie Scripture to bee burned and betraied the names of the brethren when the storme was ouer there was a sodaine calme the Emperour Constantine being become Christian such ioy in all Christian lands Christianitie magnified with such honour
communicate with them are polluted and cast away or reade the bookes and writings of theirs which are spread marke well the sentences and places of Scripture which they alleage and quote and what reasons they drawe out of them and then looke vpon these For I will note the chiefe Testimonies of holy Scripture that the Donatists did alleage to proue that all Churches were polluted by the mixture of open sinners and that a separation was commaunded by God from such assemblies which are these Come out from among them saieth the Lord and touch no vncleane thing and I will receaue yee and I will be your Father and you shall be my Sonnes and my Daughters saith the Lord God Almightie 2. Cor. 6. Haue no fellowship with the vnfruitefull workes of darkenes but rather reprooue them Ephes 5. Bee not partakers of other mens sinnes 1. Tim. 5. A little leauen dooth leauen the whole lumpe and take away the euill from among yee 1. Cor. 5. Ifanie which is called a Brother be a Fornicator an I dolater or couetous c. with such see that yee eate not 1. Cor. 5. What hath the Chaffe to doo with the Corne Ierem. 23. Also depart depart come out from thence and touch no vncleane thing come out from the middest thereof and seperate your selues yee that beare the vessels of the Lord. I say 52. All these and some other did Parmenian the Donatist Bishop alleage in his Epistle Wee may not thinke that these Scriptures were alleaged onely by some one Donatist for Augustine in his booke De vnico Baptismo against Petilian Chapter 14. saith Magis enim solent in ore habere quando peccatis aliorum alios criminantur ad excusandum nefas separationis suae videbas furem concurrebas cum eo c. For they are wont rather to haue in their mouth when they accuse some to be guiltie or polluted by the sinnes of other to excuse their wicked seperation Thou sawest a theefe and diddest run with him Psal 50. And be not partakers of other mens sinnes depart and come out from thence touch no vncleane thing he that shal touch that which is vncleane shal be poluted and a little leauen dooth leauen the whole lump and other such like Now what the estate of the question was and how they held men polluted if they did not seperate themselues the disputation betweene the Catholique Bishops and the Donatists which were assembled at the cōmaundement of the Emperour dooth shew Where the names of the Donatist Bishops that had subscribed their consent to that conference were two hundreth seauentie and nine but some of them were not there Thus Augustine reporteth their words in the conference of the third day Chapter 4. Quia in eo quod dicebant diuinis testimonijs velut astruebant non esse malos in ecclesia tolerandos sed ab eis recedendum propter contagium peccatorum Itase dicere demonstrabant vt tamen ignoratis peccatis alienis neminem maculari posse faterentur Because euen in that which they saide and which they did as it were confirme by the Scriptures that the euil are not to be tolerate in the Church but wee must depart from them for feare of the contagion of their sins they shewed that they spake it to be vnderstoode thus that neuerthelesse they confessed that no man could be spotted with other mens sinnes which are secret In this conference the Donatist Bishops stoode vpon this that the Lord saith of the Church Esay 52. There shall no vncircumcised or vncleane passe through thee anie more And vpō that which is writtē by the Prophet Hag chap. 2. Ask the Preests concerning the Lawe If a man carrie holie flesh in the lappe of his garment and the lappe of his garment shall touch the bread c. Shall he bee sanctified The Priests answered no. Then if a man that is vncleane touch any of those things shall it not bee vncleane The Priestes answer it shall bee vncleane So is this people and so is this Nation before me saith the Lord and so is the whole work of their hands yea that which they haue offered there hath been vncleane Stay now and see whether the very same Scriptures bee not in the mouthes of the common sort of the Brownists and whether the writings of the chiefe Brownists bee not euerie where spatred with the quotations of them And to proue the same thing which the Donatists held and maintained by them namelie that such as communicate with open sinners are polluted by their sinnes and therefore they separate themselues But that this agreement betweene them may yet more fully appeare I will proceed further and shewe how these matters were discussed For otherwise it maye bee some man will imagine that the auncient Fathers might defend the Churches against those allegations of the Donatists after such a sort as wee canne not truly defende ours at this day Whereas therefore it was by the Donatists vrged depart depart come out from among them seperate your selues touch no vncleane thing c. the answere was by the Pastors of the Churches that this seperation was not to bee made in bodie when the Church is pestered with open sinners but in heart and not consenting in minde vnto the sins openly committed by those with whom they did communicate in the Church These be the wordes of Augustine against Parmenian in the second booke Chapt. 18. Qua verba isti carnaliter sentientes per tot diuisiones seipsos minutatim in ipsa vna Aphrica conciderunt Non enim intelligunt neminem coniungi cum infidelibus nisi qui facit peccata Paganorum vel talia facientibus fauet Nec quenquam fieri participem iniquitatis nisi qui iniqua vel agit vel approbat Quis autem communicat tenebris nisi qui per tenebras consentionis suae dimisso Christo sequitur Belial quis ponit cum infidelibus partem suam nisi qui eius infidelitatis fit particeps Ita enim templum dei esse desinit nec se aliter simulachris adiungit Qui autem sunt templum dei viui in medio nationis tortuosae ac peruersae apparent sicut luminaria in mundo verbum vitae habentes nihil eos quod pro vnitate tolerant inficit nec angustiantur quia in illis habitat deambulat deus exeunt de medio malorum atque separātur interim corde ne forté cum id facere per seditionem Schismatis volūt prius a bonis spiritualiter quam a malis corporaliter separentur That is to say which words they vndetstanding carnally for he had before repeated their allegation Come out from among them and touch no vncleane thing they haue cut themselues by morsels into so many diuisiōs in that one Aphrica for they doe not vnderstand that no man is ioyned with Infidels but he that doth commit the sinnes of the Pagans or else doth fauour those that doe such things neither that any
man can be made partaker of the iniquitie but he that eyther doth the wicked things or else doth approoue them And who hath felowship with darknes but he that by the darknes of his consent forsaking Christ doth follow Belial who putteth his part with infidels but he which is partarker of that infidelitie for that way he ceaseth to be the tēple of God neither otherwise dooth hee ioyne himselfe to idols And they which are the temple of the liuing God and in the middest of a crooked and peruerse generation appeare as lights in the world hauing the word of life nothing doth infecte them which they tolerate for vnities sake neither are they pent vp in anie straight because God dooth dwell in them and walke in them And they depart out of the middest of the euill and in the meane while are seperate at leastwise in heart least perhaps while they would doo that by sedition of Schisme they should rather be spirituallie separated from the good than corporallie from the bad Thus farre Augustine for seperation in heart when it cannot be in bodie Againe he saith answering Parmenian to this sentence bee not partaker of other mens sinnes chap. 20. Nos dicimus quod qui non facit malum nec facienti consentit facientem arguit firmus atque integer inter iniquos tanquam frumentum inter paleas conuersatur We say that he which dooth not commit euill nor consent to him that dooth and rebuketh him that dooth he is conuersant firme and sound among the wicked as the corne among the chaffe Now whereas the Donatists did replie that the separation from the open sinners which God commandeth could not be meant of a separation onelie in heart and mind for so we ought to be separate from the heathen with whom yet it was lawfull to eate for S. Paul willeth If an infidell bid thee to a feast goe but if anie that is called a brother bee a fornicator an idolater or couetous with such see that yee eate not this must néedes be vnderstood of a bodelie separation the Brownists pressing this Argument also as the Donatists did say we might eate common bread with infidels yea at the same common table with such vngodlie Christians as Paul forbiddeth to eate with and therefore the commandement of the Apostle they say is plaine which all men ought to obey that if open sinners come to the holy table of the Lorde wee ought not there to eate with them But let vs see the answer of Augustine in the third booke against Parmenian Chap. 3. His words in déede are manie but I will set them downe because they be so full and pregnant to declare wherein the controuersie lay betweene the Donatists and the Churches and why the Donatists made separation In hac velut angustia quaestionis non aliquid nouum aut insolitum dicam sed quod sanitas obseruat ecclesiae vt cum quisque fratrum id est Christianorum intus in ecclesiae societate constitutorum in aliquo tali peccato fuerit deprehensus vt anathemate dignus habeatur fiat hoc vbi periculum Schismatis nullum est atque id cum ea dilectione de qua ipse alibi praecipit dicens vt inimicum eum non existimetis sed corripite vt fratrem non enim estis ad eradicandum sed ad corrigendū quod si se non agnouerit neque poenitendo correxerit ipse for as exiet per propriam voluntatem ab ecclesiae vnitate dirimetur Nam ipse dominus cùm seruis volentibus ZiZania colligere dixit sinete vtraque crescere vsque ad messem praemisit causam dicens ne forte cum vultis colligere Zizanea eradicetis simul triticum Vbi satis ostendit cum metus iste non subest sed omnino de frumentorum certa stabilitate certa securitas manet id est quando ita cuiusque crimen notum est omnibus omnibus execrabile apparet vt vel nullos prorsus vel non tales habeat definsores per quos possit schisma contingere non dormiat seueritas disciplinae in qua tantò est efficacior emendatio prauitatis quantò diligentior confirmatio charitatis tum autem hoc sine labe pacis vnitatis sine laesione frumentorum fieri potest cùm congregationis ecclesiae multitudo ab eo crimine quod anathematizatur aliena est Tunc enim adiuuat praepositum potius corripientem quam criminosum resistentem tunc se ab eius coniunctione salubriter continet vt nec cibum cum eo quisquam sumat non rabie inimica sed coertione fraterna Tunc etiam ille timore percutitur pudore sanatur cum ab vniuersa ecclesiasc anathematizatum videns sociam turbam cum qua in delicto suo gaudeat bonis insultet non potest inuenire That is to say As it were in this straight of the question I will not speake any thing that is new or vnwonted but that which the soundnes of the Church dooth obserue that when anie of the Brethren that is of the Christians which haue place within in the vnitie of the Church be taken in some such sinne that hee may bee accounted worthie to bee excommunicate let it bee done where there is no danger of a Schisme and the same with that loue of which hee commaundeth elsewhere saying esteeme him not as an enemie but admonish him as a Brother for yee are not to roote vp but to amend If that hee shall not acknowledge himselfe neither reforme himselfe by repentance hee shall depart out and by his owne will shall bee cut from the vnitie of the Church For the Lord himselfe when he saide to the seruants which would gather the tares suffer both to grow together shewed a cause saying least peraduenture while yee goe about to roote vp the tares ye pluck vp also with them the wheate Where hee dooth plainelie shew that when there is no such feare but there remaineth a full securitie of the vndoubted stabilitie of the corne that is when the crime of any one is so knowne to all and appeareth execrable vnto all that either it can haue no defenders at all or else not such by whome there may a Schisme fall out let not the seueritie of discipline sleepe in which the curing of the disease is so much more effectuall as the confirmation of loue is more diligent Then also this may bee done without any blot of peace and vnitie and without hurting the corne when the multitude of the assemblie of the Church is free from that crime for which the excommunication is denounced For then they rather helpe the pastor that dooth chastice than the guiltie offendor which resisteth then euerie man dooth healthfullie abstaine from his fellowship and not so much as eate meate with him not of an enemie like mad rage but of a brotherlie reprehension Then hee also is stricken with feare and healed through shame when seeing himself
excommunicate of the whole Church cannot finde a multitude to bee of his fellowship with which hee may reioyce in his sinne and insult ouer the good Thus farre Augustine which yee see expoundeth that place of Paul with such eate not of those that be excommunicate iustlie by the Church shewing that this excommunication cannot be executed when such a multitude doo sinne that it would bréede a Schisme if they should be all cast foorth and so pluck vp the wheate séeing as he sheweth this censure is ordained as a remedie to heale and not to pluck vp and destroy This point peraduenture will seeme strange vnto many that the seueritie of the discipline should cease as it were when it is a multitude that dooth offend and least it may be thought not to be his meaning and as he speaketh that which the soundnes of the Church did obserue I will shew how he proceedeth further in his answer Neque enim potest esse salubris a multis correptio nisi cum ille corripitur qui non habet sociam multitudinem cum verò idem morbus plurimos occupauerit nihil aliud bonis restat quam dolor gemitus vt perillud signum quod Ezechieli sancto reuelatur illae si euadere ab illorâ—m vastatione mereantur For neither can that reprehension by manie saith hee bee for health but when he is reprehended which hath not the multitude his companion But when the same sicknes hath taken hold of verie manie there remaineth nothing else to the good but sorrowe and bewailing that through that signe which is reuealed vnto holie Ezechiel they may deserue to escape vnhurt and free from the destruction of those wicked When Augustine hath vttered this a little after he bringeth in Paule himselfe for example in his practise for he willed them to excommunicate the incestuous person and he that had willed not to eate bread with a brother so called that were a fornicator doth not will them to cast them foorth and not to eate bread with them whom he complaineth of 2. Epistle 12. that had not repented for the vncleannes and fornication and wantonnes which they had committed for these he saith were many and therefore that S. Paule doth not threaten that wheÌ„ he came he would cast them foorth but he would as he saith bewaile them The like we see in those that denied the resurrection he willed them not to cast these foorth least a schisme might growe thereupon After this he addeth Et re vera si contagio peccandi multitudinem inuaserit diuina disciplinae seuera misericordia necessaria est nam consilia separationis inania sunt perniciosa atque sacrilega quia impia superbafiunt plus perturbant infirmos bonos quam corrigant animosos malos That is And in verie deede if the contagion of sinning hath inuaded the multitude the seuere mercie of diuine discipline is necessarie for the counsell or enterprises of separation are both vaine and pernicious yea sacrilegious because they become both wicked and proude and doo more trouble the good which are weake than chastice the sturdie ones which are euill What can bee more vehementlie thundred out against the Donatists than this and yet the Brownists which are the same in their schisme may not bee spoken sharply vnto Then a little after Augustine doth as it were conclude in this poynt Misericorditer igitur corripiat homo quod potest quod autem non potest patienter ferat cum dilectione gemat atque lugeat donec aut ille desuper emendet corrigat aut vsque ad messem differat eradicare zizania paleam ventilare Let a man therefore with mercie correct that which he can and that which he cannot let him beare with patience and with loue let him mourne and lament vntill he from aboue doo either redresse and amend or else differre vntill the haruest to roote out the tares and to winnowe out the chaffe Here he alleageth the example of that holie Martyr Cyprian which had béen Bishop of Carthage who describing the multitude to bee so full of grosse sinnes yea verie many of his fellow Bishops spotted with very foule crimes yet he communicated with them though not in their sinnes which he did euermore reprehend but in the Sacraments and holie worship of God Furthermore answering to the sentence alleaged by the Donatist out of Ieremie what hath the chaffe to doo with the corne He saith among all things the Donatists in this did bewray their sacrilegious swelling pride For though being demaunded they would confesse themselues to be sinners yet in this they did not onely challenge to be the true Church alone but also such as the holie Church shall be after the last winnowing Cui sacrilegae praesumptioni nephandae elationi quid addi possit ignoro That is To which sacrilegious presumption and cursed abominable swelling I knowe not what can be added Reade the bookes of Browne and the writings of other Brownists and ye shall euer and anon finde great outcries as they charge vs against our wicked tollerating If it were swelling pride in the Donatists that caused them to denie any tollerating what is it in the Brownists But to proceede yet further in the third booke against Cresconius Chapter 50. hee saith Haec omnia displicent bonis ea prohibent cohibent quaÌ„tum possunt quantum autem non possunt ferunt sicut dixi pro pace laudabiliter tolerant non ea laudabilia sed damnabilia iudicantes nec propter zizania segitem Christi nec propter paleas aream Christi nec propter vasa inhonorata domum magnam Christi nec propter pisces malos retia Christi derelinquunt That is to say Al these things displease the good and they forbid them and restraine them as much as they can and as much as they cannot restraine they beare and as I haue saide they tolerate laudablie for peace sake not iudging the thinges laudable but damnable neither doo they forsake the corne of Christ for the tares nor the flâ—aer of Christ because of the chaffe nor the great house of Christ because of the vessells for dishonour nor the nettes of Christ for the euill fishes I haue shewed alreadie that the Donatist Bishops when they were by the commandement of the Emperour assembled in great number at Carthage that there might bee a conference declared this to bee their mind when they affirme that the good are polluted and cast away by communicating with the bad that it is when the sinnes are manifest Now I thinke it is not amisse to shewe somewhat of their disputation that the things which I alleage touching their opinions may not seeme to be from some fewe which peraduenture might differ from others Looke in the conference of the third day Chapt. 4. The Bishops of the true Church to prooue that there should be open wicked sinners in the Church mingled together with the good vnto
tamen nulla corporali diremptione separauerit That is Esay saide Depart depart come out from thence and touch not that which is vncleane But whie did hee himselfe in one congregation with them touch that vncleannes which hee reprooued in that people They may read how great things hee vttered against the wicked of his people how vehementlie and trulie from whome notwithstanding hee did separate himselfe with no bodelie separation After he hath shwed the like in the holie Prophet Dauid who professed hee had not sit in the counsell of vaine men and yet was not separate in bodie from the vngodlie in his dayes He addeth Nonne si eorum verba factis eorum obijceremus responderent nobis nos planè cum talibus nullum habuimus in corde consortium nec tangebamus immundum vbi potest coinquinari contactus id est consensione at que placito conscientiae recedebamus exibamus ab eis qui non solùm talia non faciebamus sed nec facientibus tacebamus If we should obiect their words against their deedes would they not answer vs wee haue had vtterlie no fellowship in heart with such wicked men neither did we touch that which is vncleane where the touching may be defiled That is to say wee did depart and come out from them in consent and likening of conscience which our selues not onelie did not doo such things but also kept not silence to them that did such wickednes Against Parmenian booke 3. chap. 4. Again in the same place he addeth Postremò si Prophetae posteros monuerunt vt se ante tempus vltimae ventilationis a paleis corporaliter separarent tali separatione cauerent tangere immundum cum facinorosis non introirent cur hoc non fecit Apostolus Paulus An palea noÌ„ erant qui non ex veritate sed ex inuidia Christum annunciabant An immundi non erant qui non castè euangelium praedicarunt Hos in illis temporibus ecclesia fuisse testatur cuius excellentissimam charitatem omnia tolerantem etiam posteriores imitati sunt That is Lastlie if the Prophets gaue warning to the posteritie that they should before the time of the last winnowing separate themselues from the chaffe in bodie and by such separation take heede of touching any vncleane thing and that way not to enter with the wicked dooers whie did not the Apostle Paul doo so Were not they chaffe which preached Christ of enuie and not for the trueth Were not they vncleane which preached the Gospell not purelie That there were such in the Church at those times hee dooth testifie Philip 1. Whose most excellent charitie induring or tolerating all things those that suceeded haue also imitated Hauing thus affirmed that this most excellent loue of Paul tolerating open wicked men in the church where they could not without danger of schisme be cast foorth was imitated of the godlie pastors that succéeded he alleageth for example holie Cyprian who testifying that not onelie the people but also manie of his fellowe Bishoppes were horriblie wicked yet liued in peace with them and did not separate himselfe in bodie Thus hee demaundeth An immunditia an etiam auaritia quam Cyprianus corde non tetigit tamen inter auaros collegas pacatisssimè vixit Was it not vncleannes was it not also couetousnes which Cyprian touched not in heart and yet liued most peaceablie among his couetous fellowe Bishops He knew right well what God commaundeth in the Psalme that hee should not sit in the counsell of vaine men nor enter with the wicked dooers An non erat conuenticulum vanitatis in eis qui esurientibus in ecclesia fratribus largissimo argento nitere cupiebant An non erant facinorosi qui fuundos insidiosè fratribus rapiebant An nequissimi impij non erant qui vsuris multiplicantibus foenus augebant Ille vero lauabat manus suas cum innocentibus circundabat altare domini Ideo quippe tolerabat nocentes ne deserâ—ret innocentes cum quibus manus lauabat quia diligebat speciâ—m domus domini quae species in vasis honorabilibus fuit That is Was not the conuenticle of vanitie among them which while their brethren indured hunger or penurie in the Church did couet to shine gorgeouslie with most aboundant wealth Were not they wicked dooers which by deceiptfull meanes in such rauening sort tooke from their brethren possessions of Lands Were they not most vngodlie and wicked which with multiplying vsurie did increase their gaine But Cyprian did wash his hands with innocents and compassed the Altar of the Lord. He tolerated the wicked least he should forsake those innocent with whom hee washed his hands because hee loued the beautie of the Lords house which beautie was in the vessels for honour Now where the Donatists might obiect shall the discipline then be neglected and wicked men suffered to liue at their pleasure in the Church Augustine answereth both them and all others touching this obiection first in his third booke against Parmenian chap. 1. Quapropter quisquis etiam contempserit ecclesiae Dei disciplinam vt malos cum quibus non peccat quibus non fauet desistat monere corrigere arguere si etiam talem gerit personam pax ecclesiae patitur vt etiam à sacramentorum participatione quem piam possit separare non alieno malo peccat sed suo ipsa quippe in tanta re negligentia graue malum est ideò sicut Apostolus admonet si auferet maluÌ„ a seipso non solum aufirreâ— audaciam committendi aut pestilentiam consentiendi sed etiam pigritiam corrigendi negligentiam vindicandi adhibita prudentia obedientia in eo quod praecepit dominus ne frumenta laedantur That is to say Wherfore whosoeuer also shall despise the discipline of Gods Church so that he giue ouer admonishing correcting and reprouing the euill men with whome hee dooth not sinne and whome he dooth not fauour yea if he beare such office and the peace of the Church permit that hee may also separate any from the participation of the Sacraments and dooth not he sinneth by his owne falt and not by the falt of another For the verie negligence it selfe in so great a matter is a grieuous sinne and therefore as the Apostle dooth warne If he will take away euil from himselfe hee must not onelie take away the boldnes of committing it or the pestilence of consenting thereto but also the slouthfulnes of correcting and negligence of reuenging the same prudentlie obeying in that which the Lorde hath commaunded that the wheate may not be hurt In his third booke against Petilian Chapt. 4. hauing before shewed that there is a worthie patience in suffering the false brethren for the vnities sake he addeth Neque hoc ideo dixerim vt negligatur ecclesiastica disciplina permittatur quisque facere quod velit sine vlla correptione quadam medicinali vindicta terribili lenitate charitatis
hence that the Church of England is esteemed and reuerenced among the Churches as a sister and communicated withall and yet they all know what her faults be in her assemblies in her worship in her ministrie and gouernment in as much as they are open and apparant to them euen as to our selues Now that they iustifie her as a true Church we haue their own words for the harmonie of confessions of the Churches collected and set foorth by the Churches of France and of the Lowe Countries doth receiue and approoue the confession of the Church of England and call it one of the reformed Churches Whereupon I argue thus If the Church of England be Antichristian and idolatrous and worship the beast bow downe vnto him and receiue his marke because of the gouernment by Bishops then the Churches which doo perfectlie knowe the same and yet doo acknowledge her as a sister and communicate with her are partakers of her sinne and so to be condemned with her Therefore the Brownists condemning it condemne those that iustifie it knowing the estate The Brownists condemne all those as persecutors of the iust enemies of Christ and of his kingdome that shall hold them to be Heretickes and Schismatickes for condemning the Church of England and separating themselues I argue thus All the Churches which know the Church of England and her forme of gouernment and yet doo loue and reuerence her as a true Church of Christ condemne those as hereticall Schismatickes which call it Antichristian and separate themselues from it For how can the Churches as they doo esteeme the Church of England as a true sister and yet not condemne the Brownists as wicked Schismatickes which call it the Synagog of Sathan Then let the Brownists shewe that the Churches haue reuoked this their former iudgement of the Church of England or else let them answere whether they condemne not all those as no true Christians which shall affirme them to be wicked Schismatickes for separating themselues from the assemblies of England If they will deny that the churches esteeme our Churche as a sister and therefore condemne them as vngodlie Schismatickes the matter is so cléere that all men shal see them then to be impudent It may be some Brownist will replie that it cannot be extended vnto all Churches a farre off which is verified in some that be nigh Well let vs see then for the Churches a farre off Doo not the Brownists condemne the Church of Geneua They will say no. But I say they doo For as I sayd before will they not condemne all such as doo reiect them as wicked Schismatickes This doth the Church of Geneua Which I prooue thus In that the Church of Geneua doth approoue the doctrine of those that haue béen and are her most learned and godlie Pastors as Master Caluin with whom the rest consent in doctrine Now touching the doctrine of Master Caluin published whereby he condemneth the Brownists as Schismatickes ye may reade it in fourth booke of his Institutions and the first Chapter It is too large to recite the whole I will alleage but some parts Looke vppon the seuenth section where he saith that in the visible Church in earth there are verie many hypocrites mingled verie many that be ambicious couetous enuious cursed speakers some of more impure life which tollerated for a time either because they cannot in lawfull iudgemēt be conuinced or else because that seueritie of discipline which ought to be is not alwaies in force In the ninth section he affirmeth that the reason is somewhat diuers in esteeming priuate men and in esteeming the churches for it may come to passe as he saith that wee ought to handle them as brethren and accompt instead of beléeuers such as wee shall thinke vtterlie vnworthie the fellowship of the godlie euen for the cōmon consent of the church by which they are tollerated in the bodie of Christ Wee doo not approoue such by our voyce to be members of the Church but we leaue vnto them that place which they hold among the people of God vntill it be taken from them by lawfull iudgement Then he addeth but wee must thinke otherwise of the multitude which if it haue the Ministerie of the Word and giue honour if it haue the Administration of the Sacraments no doubt it deserueth to bee accounted a Church because it is certaine those things are not without fruite so wee both keepe for the Uniuersall Church her vnitie which diuelish Spirites haue alwaies endeuored to cutte in sunder neither doo wee defraude of their authoritie the lawfull assemblies which are seuered according to the fitnes of places In the tenth section hee vttereth that the Lord maketh so great account of the communion of his Church that he estéemeth him as a runnagate and forsaker of religion whosoeuer he be that frowardlie shall separate himselfe from any Christian societie which imbraseth but the true Ministrie of the word and Sacraments And a little after he inferreth vpon some ground of reason that the departure from the Church is the deniall of God and of Christ affirming moreouer that no crime can bée deuised more horrible than with sacrilegious trecherie to violate the mariage which the Sonne of God hath vouchsafed to contract with vs. In the twelft section hée dooth expounde what is his meaning when he requireth a pure Ministerie of the word and pure order of administring the Sacraments as notes infallible of the true Church For hee saieth there may somewhat that is faltie créepe in either in the administration of the word or of the Sacraments which ought not to separate vs from the Communion of that Ministrie Because there be principles of Religion without which we cannot be saued and there be points in which men dissent and the one part erreth and yet the vnitie of faith and brotherlie loue is kept not that we are to approue the least errour in doctrine or the sialest corruption in the administration of the Sacraments In the thirtéenth section he saith that in tolerating the imperfection of life wée ought to bée much more fauorable for here we are vpon slipperie ground where wée may easely fall And the euill dooth héere lie in waite and assalt vs with speciall engines for there haue been alwaies some which being caried with a false perswasion of an absolute perfection as if they were now become certaine ayrie spirites despised the fellowship of all men in whome they saw any thing that is humaine or corrupt remaining Such were of olde time the Cathari and the Donatists which fell into the same furie such are at this daye some of the Anabaptists which would seeme to haue profited more than others There be other some that offend rather of an inconsiderate zeale of righteousnes than of that mad pride for while they see the life is not answerable to the holie doctrine in bringing foorth good fruite among such as haue the Gospell preached they iudge by and by that
of it whether true or false that is to say because it is of that mā who though he be secretlie wicked it is sufficient for the receiuer that he is of good estimatiō not yet knowne not yet iudged not yet separate from the Church Booke 2. Chapt. 17. This blind shift had Cresconius alleaged to auoide those former absurdities and fell into as great that false fame doth baptize By which it appeareth that the whole matter of the Donatists opinion rested in this that an open wicked man onely did not or could not baptize Cresconius calleth vpon Augustine thus Responde quomodo baptizent quos damnauit ecclesia Answere how they can baptize whom the Church hath condemned Augustine doth answere Sic eos baptizare quomodo baptizant quos damnanit Deus antequam de illis quicquam iudicaret ecclesia That they baptize as those doo whom GOD hath cōdemned before the Church hath iudged any thing of them And seeing the secrete wicked man is condemned alreadie by Christ and the Church is subiect to Christ hée inferreth Non igitur debet ecclesia se Christo praeponere vt putet baptizare posse ab illo iudicatos à se autem iudicatos baptizare non posse cum ille semper veraciter iudicet ecclesiastici autem Iudices sicut homines plerunque falluntur Therefore the Church ought not to preferre her selfe before Christ as to thinke that such as are condemned by him can baptize but such as are condemned by her cannot baptize when he alwaies iudgeth truely where the ecclesiasticall Iudges as men are oftentimes deceiued Hereupon hee concludeth Baptizant ergo quantum attinet ad visibile ministerium boni mali inuisibiliter autem per eos baptizat cuius est visibile baptisma inuisibilis gratia Tingere ergo possunt boni mali abluere autem conscientiam non nisi ille qui semper est bonus Therefore both the good and the bad do baptize in as much as appertaineth to the visible ministrie but inuisiblie by them doth hee baptize whose is both the visible baptisme and also the inuisible grace Both the good then and the bad may dippe them in the water but to wash the cōscience there can none but he which is alwaies good Booke 2. Chapt. 21. Cresconius procéedeth demaunding what can be vttered more wicked than this Vt purificet aliū maculosus abluat sordidus emundet immundus det infidelis fidem criminosus faciat innocentem That he which is spotted should purifie another he that is foule should wash he that is vncleane should clense that an Infidell should giue faith that he which is criminous should make another innocent Booke 3. Chapt. 5. Augustine answereth Nec maculosus nec sordidus nec immundus nec infidelis nec criminosus est Christus qui dilexit ecclesiam seipsum tradidit pro ea mundans eam lauacro aquae in verbo faciens nos certos de bonis suis ne malis viciaremur alienis Christ is not spotted nor foule nor vncleane nor an infidell nor criminous which hath loued his Church and giuen himselfe for it cleansing it by the lauer of water through the word making vs sure of his good things that wee cannot be defiled with the euill of other men But now to come to a more cléere opening of this matter whereas Petilian had saide that euerie thing consisteth of an originall and roote and if any thing haue not an head it is nothing and the answere was made that Christ is the originall the roote and the head of him that is baptized and that he is accursed which putteth his trust in man Cresconius dooth replie as Augustine reporteth his words Hoc nos suademus volumus vt semper Christus det fidem Christus sit origo Christiani in Christo radicem Christianus infigat Christus Christiani sit caput Non quaerimus hominem in quo spem constituat accepturus sed quaerimus per quem hoc melius fiat Et quia sine ministro nec vos dicitis hominem posse baptizari quaerimus vtrúmne melius iniustus sit minister an iustus This also saieth the Donatists we will and perswade that Christ alwaies giueth faith Christ is the originall of a Christian in Christ the Christian must fixe his roote that Christ is the head of the Christian wee seeke not a man in whome he that is to be baptized may set his hope but we seeke by whome this may better be done And because you also say a man cannot be baptized without a minister we demaund whether is the better that the minister be vniust or that he be iust Booke 3. chapt 6 7 and 8. Augustine replieth Vbi respondeo ad hoc esse melius vt sit iustus minister quod infirmitas hominis cui sine exemplo laboriosum est difficile quod imperat Deus imitatione boni ministri ad vitam bonam facilius erigatur Vnde dicit Apostolus Paulus imitatores mei estote sicut ego Christi ad hominem vero baptizandum sanctificandum si tantòest melius quod accipitur quantò est melior per quem traditur tanta est in accipientibus baptismorum varietas quanta in ministris diuersitas meritorum Si enim quod sine controuersia creditur melior erat Paulus quam Apollo meliorem baptismum profectò dedit secundùm istam vestram vanam peruersamque sententiam Et si meliorem baptismum dedit profecto eis quos a se non baptizatos gratulatur inuidit Porro si interbonos ministros cum sit alius alio melior non est melior baptismus qui per meliorem datur nullo modo est malus qui etiam per malum datur quando idem baptismus datur ideo per ministros dispares Dei munus aequale est quia non illorum sed eius est Where I answere saieth Augustine That in this respect it is better that the minister be godly because the infirmitie of man to whome without an example it is labour some and difficult to doo that which God commaundeth may more easilie by the imitation of a good minister be raised vp and supported vnto good life Whereupon the Apostle Paul saieth Be yee followers of me as I am of Christ But for the Baptizing and sanctifying a man If it be so much better which is receiued as he is better by whome it is deliuered then there is as great varietie of Baptismes in the receiuers as there is diuersitie of worthines in the ministers For if Paul were better than Apollo which is beleeued without controuersie then hee verelie according to that your vaine and peruerse sentence gaue a better baptisme And if he deliuered a better baptisme doubtles he enuied those for whome hee is glad that they were not baptized by him Moreouer if it be so that among the good Ministers when one is better than another the baptisme is not better which is deliuered by the better it is by no
meane euill when it is giuen by a naughtie man seeing the same baptisme is deliuered And therefore by vnequall Ministers the gift of God is equall because it is his and not theirs Thus farre Augustine It is apparant enough by that which I haue alreadie cited what the Donatists meant in denying it to bee Baptisme which was administred by an open wicked man and requiring for the trueth and efficacie of Baptisme that it should be administred by a godlie man or at the least by a man godlie in shew but yet I will adde somewhat more Petilian replying vpon Augustine with great railing saide also that those absurdities which he gathered were his own booke 3. chap. 45. And whereas Augustine had demaunded what if the conscience of him that deliuereth be vncleane secret what dooth wash if anie thing be to be that way regarded in mā he answereth it is as to say Quid si nunc coelum ruat What if the skie shuld now fal Moreouer he saith that two words of his were omitted by Augustine in his two sayings the one is the conscience of him that giueth where he saieth his words were sanctè dantis of him that giueth holilie The other he that will take faith of an vnfaithfull man hee receiueth not faith but guiltines where hee saith this word sciens was omitted which is knowing So that howsoeuer Petilian séemed in his heate to vtter otherwise hee will haue this to be his meaning that hee which receiueth Baptisme of a Minister whome he knoweth to be a wicked man because his sinnes are open he receiueth not Baptisme but pollution and guiltines by Communicating with him booke 3. Chapter 31. Againe where Petilian and the rest affirmed that hee which is Baptized of one that is dead his washing dooth not profit him hee meaneth by one that is dead not the secret wicked nor yet the open sinner vntill the Church haue condemned him Booke 1. Chap. 10. Parmenian that Donatist Bishop to proue that it was no Baptisme which was ministred by an open wicked man alleageth that the wicked which sacrificeth a shéepe is as hee that cutteth off the head of a dog and the sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to the Lord. Esay 66. And that the man which had any blemish or spot in him should not come to offer as a Priest to the Lord Leuit. 21. And that God heareth not sinners Iohn 9. As Augustine reporteth against Parmenian Booke 2. Chapt. 6 7 8. Where Augustine answereth Vnicuique retribuit Deus secundùm cor suum Nam si primis temporibus non obfuerunt mali sacerdotes vel collegis bonis sicut fuit Zacharias vel popularibus sicut fuit Nathaniel in quo dolus non erat quantò magis nihil obest in Christiana vnitate Episcopus malus vel coepiscopis vel lucis bonis cùm iam ille sacerdos in aeternum secundùm ordinem Melchisedech pontifex noster sedens ad dextram patris interpellat pro nobis c. God rendreth vnto euerie one according to his heart For if in the first times the naughtie Priests did not hurt either their fellowes which were good such as was Zacharie or anie of the people such as was Nathaniel in whom was no guile How much more doth an euill Bishop in the Christian vnitie nothing hurt either his fellowe Bishops being good or anie of the laietie when now that Priest for euer after the order of Melchisedech euen our high Priest sitting at the right hand of the Father maketh intercession for vs c. Dicant ergo mihi cui sancto secundùm salutem spiritualem obfuerit vel in sacerdotibus vel inter populum constituto malus aut maculatus sacerdos Let them shew vnto me therefore which holie one either of the Priests or among the people an euill and spotted Priest did hurt touching spirituall saluation Where was Moses and Aaron there were the wicked murmurers where was Caiphas and other such like there were Zacharie Symeon and other godlie ones where Saul was there was Dauid where Esay Ieremie Ezechiel and Daniel were there were the wicked Priests and naughtie people Sed sarcinam suam vnusquisque portabat But euerie one did beare his owne burthen And hauing shewed that the words of Balaam a wicked man were heard of God for the people he addeth Vnde non mirum est verba bona quae propopulo dicūtur in precibus etiam si a malis dicantur episcopis exaudiri tamen non pro peruersitate praepositorum sed pro deuotione populorum From whence it is no meruaile that good words which are vttered in prayer for the people are heard though they bee vttered by naughtie Bishops not for the peruersenes of the guides but for the deuotion of the people No man can take any thing vnles it be giuen him from aboue Petilian saith thereupon Doce igitur traditor simulandi mysteria quando acceperis potestatem Shew therefore thou Traitor when thou diddest receiue the power of counterfaiting the mysteries Booke 2. Chapter 31. Hee termeth it a counterfaiting or faining of the sacraments when they bee ministred by one that is openlie wicked because he holdeth that God neuer authorised any such to deliuer them And what is the whole pith of Brownists touching this poynt when they crie out that wee haue no word of God nor Sacraments but euen the verie same that the Donatists held namelie that if he be openlie wicked because God commaundeth there should be no such in the Ministerie he hath no authoritie to Baptize and so it is no Sacrament which is deliuered by them The Brownists affirme that the efficacie is of God the faith is of God the grace is of God alone but God bestoweth these by such onelie as be his true Ministers and those are none that be openlie wicked The Donatists did affirme nothing but the verie same For Augustine thus rehearseth the words of Cresconius Ideo magis te dicis iustum fidelem per quem hoc sacramentum celebretur inquirere quia spem fiduciam Dei non hominis habes Dei esse autem fidem atque iustitiam quam semper in ministris eius attendis Thou saiest that because thy hope and confidence is in God and not in man thou dost so much the rather seeke for one that is iust and faithfull by whome this Sacrament may be celebrated and that the faith and righteousnes is of God which thou doost attend in his Ministers Booke 3. Chap. 9. I hold him therefore a verie sharpe discerner which waying throughlie all the sayings of the Donatists shall be able in this poynt of hanging the being and efficacie of the Sacraments vpon the worthines of the Ministers to shew anie small difference betweene the Brownists and them Yea but herein they may seeme to differ verie much that the Donatists did rebaptize but the Brownists doo not In déed herein I confesse they differ but yet so that in this difference the Brownists
are the grosser if we may reason from that which they holde for if this were true which the Brownists affirme most stiffelie to bee true as the Donatists did before them that where an open wicked man dooth administer the Sacraments they be no Sacraments at all And if this also were as true which they both haue taken vpon them to iustifie the Donatists of olde saying they had no true Sacraments in the Churches and the Brownists that we haue none now It must needes be graunted that the Donatists did the better of both in baptising those which were not before baptized for he that is not baptized ought to be baptized And as no vncircumcised might eate of the Passeouer but was to be cut off from the people of GOD so no vnbaptized is to eate at the table of the Lord. How grosse are the Brownists which take it as a thing vndoubted that we haue no Sacraments and must needes thereupon be assured that they themselues were neuer baptized and so can be but as an heape of vncircumcised and yet seeke not to haue the Sacrament I would haue them answer this question whether a man that knoweth he was neuer baptized can be saued if he seeke not to bee baptized when hee may come by it Let no man imagine that I speake this as though the Brownists should doo well in rebaptizing for their former ground is false wicked and hereticall when they say it is no Sacrament that hath been administred by open offenders and that we haue no Sacraments But if that were true which they hold they should doo much better I will not say to rebaptize but to baptize such as were not before baptized Now where it is generallie obiected that the Donatists perhaps held diuers things which the Brownists doo not I answere that the Donatists indeede held somewhat which the Brownists doo not and the Brownists hold something which they did not For some of the Donatists did cast themselues downe from high places and into the fire accounting them holie Martyres that so died and others defended their doing For thus saith Gaudentius a Donatist Bishop in his Epistle An ista persecutio est quae tot milliq innocentum martyrum arctauit ad mortem Christiani enim secundum euangelium spiritu prompti sed carne infirmi à sacrilega contaminatione caminorum reperto compendio suas animas rapuerunt imitati presbyteri Raziae in Machabaeorum libris exemplum nec frustra timentes quisquis enim eorum manus inciderit non euasit sed quantum velint faciant quod certum est dei esse non possunt qui faciunt contra Deum Whether is that a persecution saith he which hath pent vp in a straight so many thousands of innocent martyres euen vnto death For Christians according to the Gospell being readie in spirit but weake in the flesh finding out a compendious way of their chimneyes haue deliuered their soules from the sacrilegious pollution imitating the example of olde Razia in the bookes of the Machabees not fearing without cause for whosoeuer falleth into their hands doth not escape but let them doo as much as they will that which is certaine they cannot be of God which doo against God booke 2. against Gaudent Chapt. 20. Augustine sheweth that Gaudentius meaning was not that they burnt themselues in their chimneys for feare of persecution vnto death for the ciuill Magistrate did not so persecute them hauing made a lawe against them for banishment but not for death as Augustine sheweth book 2. against Gaudentius chap. 11. Mitiora in vos constituit Imperator propter mansuetudinem Christianam exilium vobis voluit inferre non mortem The Emperour hath decreed more gentle thinges against yee through Christian mildnes he would lay banishment vppon ye and not death But his meaning is that such as fell into their hands were drawne to ioyne with them in worship which he calleth the sacriligious defilement And therfore doth abuse that place of the Gospell to colour such horrible murthering of themselues the spirit is readie but the flesh is weake for fearing least through weakenes they should yéeld to ioyne with the Churches they rather chose to kill themselues This the Brownists doo not but they condemne read prayer or praying after any prescript forme of words which the Donatists did not as may bee gathered by these words of Petilian Si pâ—ecem domino facitis aut funditis orationem nihil vobis penitus prodest Vestras enim debiles preces cruenta vestra conscientia vacuat quia dominus deus puram magis conscientiam quam preces exaudit domino Christe dicente non omnis qui dicit mihi domine domine intrabit in regnum coelorum sed is qui facit voluntatem patris mei qui est in coelis Voluntas dei vtique bona est nam ideo in sacra oratione sic petimus fiat voluntas tua sicut in coelo in terra If ye make prayer to the Lord saith the Donatist or powre foorth supplication it doth profite ye nothing at al for your bloudie conscience doth make your weake prayers of none effect because the Lord God doth rather heare a pure conscience than prayers the Lord Iesus saying that not euerie one that saith vnto me Lord Lord shall enter into the kingdom of heauen but he that doth the will of my father which is in heauen The will of God is good for therefore in the holie prayer we pray thus thy will be done in earth as it is in heauen Thus we see that the Donatist denying that any praied but they sheweth with all that praying they vsed the Lords prayer But what doo I stand to seeke differences betwéen them which can hardlie be found whereas indeede whole bookes doo set foorth at large their agreement I will therefore proceede further to declare in particulars touching the power of Christian Princes in reforming the Church in establishing religion and in punishing heretickes schismatickes and disturbers and in compelling their subiects to the obedience of the trueth or to imbrace the true worship how iniuriouslie Browne hath dealt in his booke and the Brownists that haue written since I haue layd open in my former booke let their sayings be throughlie perused and now shall ye seee a little whether they be not the verie naturall children of the Donatists in this poynt also Thus writeth Gaudentius a Donatist Bishop Per opificem rerum omnium dominum Christum omnipotens deus frabricatum hominem vt deo similem libero demisit arbitrio Scriptum est enim fecit deus hominem dimisit eum in manu arbitrij sui Quid mihi nunc humano imperio eripitur quod largitus est deus Aduerte vir summe quanta in deum sacrilegia perpetrentur vt quod ille tribuit auferat humana praesumptio pro deo se inaniter iactet magna iniuria dei si ab hominibus defendatur Quid de deo aestimat qui eum violentia
compell men but rather inuite them Quodsi cogi per legem aliquem vel ad bona licuisser vosipsi miseri a nobis ad sidem purissimam cogi debuistis Sed absit absit a nostra conscientia vt ad nostram sidem aliquem compellamus If it were lawfull saith this Donatist that anie should by the Lawe be compelled yea euen vnto good things you wretches ought to bee compelled by vs to the most pure faith but farre be it farre be it from our conscience that we should compell anie vnto our faith chapt 83. Quid vobis est cum regibus seculi quos nunquam Christianit as nisi inuidos sensit What haue you to doo with the Kings of the Worlde which the Christianitie hath neuer felt but enuious against it Chapter 92. Compare now the doctrine of our Brownists and their sayings with these former of the Donatists and see if there bee anie difference They say Princes are not to make Lawes for Church matters Princes are not to reforme the Church by their authoritie Princes are not to compell their subiects to the true worship of God by penalties If Princes pleasures are to be attended where is the persecution wee speake of None of the godlie Kings of Iudea durit compell anie to the couenant The people of Christs Kingdome are spontanes such as come of their owne free accord c. It were too long and tedious to set foorth all the outcries of the Donatists their glorying in suffering persecutions for the trueth their accusations against the pastors of Christs Churche and the Princes while they sought to restraine their furie the one by Gods word the other by lawes that they persecuted and therefore could not be the true Church which as they say is persecuted but neuer persecuteth reade the epistle of Parmenian of Petilian and of Cresconius The Brownists are not behinde them an intch in this matter but crie out as fast of Antichristian persecutors boasting of their patience and sufferings calling themselues the persecuted remnant the poore afflicted c. Aug. answereth those Donatists at large I will recite but a little Cum phreneticus medicum vexet medicus phreneticum liget aut ambo inuicem persequuntur aut si persecutio quae malo sit non est non vtiq persequitur medicus phreneticum sed phreneticus medicum When the man that is in phrensie dooth vex the phisitian and the phisitian dooth binde him that is in phrensie either both doo persecute each other or else if that bee not a persecution which is done to the euill then verelie the phisitian dooth not persecute the phrantick or mad man but the phrantick or mad man dooth persecute the phisitian Against Cresconius Booke 4. Chapter 51. his application is that the penall Lawes of the Princes were as the bands of the Phisitian to binde the Phrensie and furious outrage of the Donatists And whereas they boasted of patience and woulde compell none He answereth that because they bee not able to resist so manie nations which were Catholike they gloried of patience that they compelled none to their part Hee then addeth Isto modo miluus cum pullos rapere territus non potuerit co lūbum se nominet After the same sort the Puttocke when he is fraid and can not snatch away the chickens may name himselfe a Doue For he doth demaund of them what they haue not done which they were able When Iulian the Apostata being Emperour enuying the peace of Christ shewed them fauour and graunted to them Churches what slaughters they committed Likewise he sheweth in many places what reuell their circumcellions made which in companies walking with clubbes and staues did spoile and beate such as light into their handes vsing moreouer a sauage crueltie in putting vineger and lime into mens eies when they had beaten them And verely what is it which men of excéeding intemperate heate will not doe if it bee once in their power against such as they shall iudge to bee but as vile Idolaters and persecutors of Christes truth The impatient heate of most Brownistes is not vnknowē but when the Kites for feare can not snatch vp the Chickens must professe the mekenes of Doues as to say weare Christes poore afflicted seruants we be meeke and patient we beare the crosse Where it is taught that priuate men are authorised to deale and furie aboundeth which things are among the Brownistes who is able to expresse the tragedies that would ensue if power were not wanting in thē the Princes may not stoppe their course and who shall then resist The Donatists abusing the scriptures in their plentifull allegations and finding that their grosenesse was detected much by the skill of artes found fault that any thing should be scanned by the rules of Logike The Brownistes are euen with them if not beyond In his first booke against Cresconius Chap. 14 Augustine reporteth the wordes of that Donatist thus Vestros Episcopos laudas quod nobiscum velut dialecticis nolint habere sermonem Thou doest commend your Bishoppes that they refuse to haue speech or conference with vs as being Logicians He answereth at large in shewing what Logicke is and the worthie and necessarie vse thereof in discussing matters of religion Browne in the preface of his booke which hee saith sheweth the life and manners of Christians calleth them sophisticall diuines which deale by the rules of Logicke The Brownistes with whome I deale charge the students of the Vniuersities as trained vp in vaine and curious Artes. And what other cause shall euer be shewed of so barbarous an errour but that they would not haue their matters tried by the rules which make manifest which is truth and which is falsehoode Thus haue I briefely laide open that the whole Donatisme is maintained by the Brownistes and therefore I haue rightly termed them the Donatistes of England An answere to Master Greenewood touching read prayer MAster Greenewood in the preface of his booke dooth shew that the reasons spread abroade in writing against read praier were his which I did not knowe before now and therefore bee taketh vpon him the defence of them He would seeme to haue found out such a deapth of spirituall wisdome touching the holie exercise of prayer and so reprooueth the grosenes of this age that wee must esteeme him for the aboundance of spirit as an other Montanus For whereas hee seemeth to charge this age onelie as grosse in this poynt in verie deede he accuseth all ages all Churches and all the learned teachers that haue beene since the Apostles so that in the gifts of the spirite he excelleth all Hee saieth hee could yet neuer see it set downe which is the true praier that onelie pleaseth God It is a strange thing hee hath neuer heard that whosoeuer asketh in faith whether it be with prescript forme or otherwise it is the onelie true praier that pleaseth God Hee saieth I haue flien vpon him with bitternesse of spirite and
them therefore they doo not pray Because I saide it is an helpe to such as bee not otherwise throughlie able I must confesse that our whole Ministerie is vnable a reason worthie a Brownist There be other causes whie all Churches vse prescript forme yea whereas all Ministers be able to pray without a booke Where I saide yee speake fondlie to call that the cause which dooth but manifest the cause yee replie that I haue forgotten mine atts because there be mo causes than one there be instrumentall causes I graunt there be moe causes than one And it is certaine that the efficient cause is manifolde if you meane by fetching the cause of their sorrowing from the booke in the time of their begging at Gods hand the efficient cause instrumentall I would haue yee but answer whether the instrumental cause cannot goe with the action but the action is ouerthrowne or disgraced I would also demaund whether it followe which yee collect there is an instrumentall cause which is an helpe therefore there is nothing else Are these things other than trifles I saide yee did answere nothing to that saying of our Sauiour When ye pray say our Father which art in Heauen c. Luke 11. Yee seeme that yee will not answer vnles I conclude from this place by Syllogisme but yet afterward yee doâ— And indeede what needeth a Syllogisme where the words are of themselues sufficient without anie further consequence or collection If our Sauiour commaund to say those words praying then is it most cleere that to vse a prescript forme of words in praying is not idolatrie nor a thing most detestable But yee say yee manifested in your first writing that our Sauiour did not commaund to vse those words when wee pray but to pray according to that forme Saint Matthew say you and Saint Luke keep not the same words nor that number of words hee saide not reade these words or say thâ—se words by roate when ye pray These reasons I haue slilie passed ouer as you accuse me What reasons If it be a reason there is but one for Christs speech is plaine when yee pray say thus therefore we may vse those words But must wee vse them of necessitie and neuer none other Not so but wee may vse and it is necessarie for vs to vse particulars which are conteined in those generals which are the ground and direction of all prayers Your one reason or that which hath shew of reason is in this that Saint Luke dooth omitte for thine is the Kingdome c. And that in the fourth and fift petitions they expresse the same matter with some difference of words As though the question were about such a precisenes in words that wee might not expresse the same petition in another phrase but it ceaseth to be the same Now where I conclude that it is therefore lawfull to vse a prescript forme of prayer which is framed according to the Scriptures in the assemblies To this yee replie that because no mans writings are without error it is pernicious and blasphemous doctrine which I collect This yee affirme stoutlie and for proofe bring nothing but those stale cauills which I haue sundrie times answered and now yee will answer to the two places alleaged Numb 6. and Luke 11. The priestes yee say were not commanded to vse those verie words of the blessing when they blessed the people the reason yee bring is from the Hebrew words which are as you say Coh teborcu thus shall yee blesse Where the worde Coh is an aduerb of similitude as we say after this manner which cannot be to say the same but according to the same instructions This word Coh is vsed throughout the Bible in this manner in all the prophets when they say thus saith the Lord. To this I answer first let all men of anie meane learning in the Hebrew bee witnes how vnfit Master Greenewood is to reason from that tongue when hee can not so much as reade two words of it aright For he saieth Coh teborcu and it is Coh tebaracu Then for the matter it selfe this learned Hebrucian saith that Coh being an aduerb of similitude as we say after the same manner it cannot be to say the same but according to the same instructions Where ignorance boldnes are met together what childreÌ„ they bring foorth We must beleeue that the Lord when he saith thus shalt thou blesse and prescribeth the words willeth the Priests not to speake the same words but the like And when our Sauiour saith When ye pray say thus Our father c. It is as much as if he should say in any wise say not these wordes at any time but the like For thus is not the same but the like God sayd to Moses I will send thee to Pharao that thou maiest bring the children of Israel out of Egypt Moses draweth backe saying when I shall come to the children of Israel and shall say vnto them the God of your fathers hath sent me vnto ye If they shall say vnto me what is his name what shall I say vnto them The Lord sayd Thus shalt thou say to the children of Israel Eheie hath sent me vnto ye Moreouer God sayd to Moses Thus shalt thou say vnto them The God of your fathers the God of Abraham the God of Isaak the God of Iaacob hath sent me vnto ye Exod. 3. vers 13 14 15. Now according to Master Greenwoods exposition of Coh Moses is not commanded to say those words but the like If they should demaund what is his name that hath sent thee he may not say Eheie hath sent me because God sayd Coh that is thus which is not the same words but the like He might not say the God of Abraham the God of Isaak the God of Iaacob hath sent me vnto ye which GOD saith is his name and memoriall for euer because God sayd Coh that is thus shalt thou say but hee must say the like words He saith further that Coh is so vsed in all the Prophets when it is sayd thus saith the Lord. That is GOD hath not spoken these very words which wee bring might the Prophets say but the like It is a like thing that Master Greenwood or some other Hebrucian among the Brownists hath read ouer al the Prophets in the Hebrew tongue to finde how Coh is euerie where vsed when he could not reade two words right And now what shall we say of the Scriptures the words if wee shall beléeue the Brownists are not Gods words but the words of the Prophets Is this wholesome doctrine Did the Prophets bring any one word which GOD did not put into their mouth I pray ye Master Greenwood or any other Brownist tell me did not God speake in the Prophets all the words that they vttered euen at the verie instant when they say thus saith the Lord How can it then so wickedly be sayd they were not the very same words which God spake but
the like because the aduerb thus doth signifie the like and not the same But hée rendreth a reason which is that we haue but the summe of their prophesies recorded vnto vs by the holie Ghost and not all the words Because we haue not all the words therefore haue we not the same in those that are set downe Did the holie Ghost vse this word Coh to giue vs to vnderstand that there is written but an abridgement or summe of matters and not the same words that they were vttered in but some such like Againe did the holie Ghost recorde them are they not all his words which are written in the summe of the prophesies set downe Shall we beléeue this man I doo beléeue him in this that he saith the holie Ghost did record them for therein he speaketh the trueth But when he saith that thus saith the Lord is not these same words saith the Lord but the like because thus is an aduerb of likenes it is a vile saying Is not the holie Ghost the Lord If hée had spoken those things before in moe words and now recordeth them in fewer saying thus saith the Lord doth not he speake these fewer words which are written as well as those moe wordes which were vttered Are they not then thus saith the Lord euen the verie same words which the Lord speaketh and not like If ye make many such expositions of words ye may leade me whether ye will There is then another reason rendred to prooue that the Priests were not tied vnto those wordes in blessing the people namely that in prayer they are blessed in the Psalmes and in the Chronicles with many other words And Eli blessed Hanna in other words It is not the question whether at any time the people might bee blessed in other words in fewer or in moe but whether the Priests had not that forme prescribed to vtter in blessing the whole assemblie and whether it were Idolatrie to vse those prescript phrases of wordes As likewise it is not maintained that when our Sauiour saith say thus that wee may not pray in other words or expresse our petitions more particularlie but that we may vse those words and sentences as most excellent petitions Against this Master Greenwood bringeth nothing in his words that followe For Master Caluine neuer held it vnlawful to pray in that forme of words though he teach truelie that men are not so tied vnto it that they may vse none other And therefore it standeth firme and sure that the forme of words in the Lords Prayer is to bee lawfullie vsed praying In the next part Master Greenwood is in a great heate and maketh an outcrie to call men to the beholding of an iniurie which I as he saith as a godles man haue done him Here saith he I must call all men that reade this fruitles discourse to be witnesse c. Indeede ye may well call it a fruitles discourse which ye call men that reade to beare witnesse with ye and let the reader iudge by your exposition of Coh whether it be not worse than fruitlesse which ye spread among the ignorant sort which are readie to sucke in such filthie dregges The abuse of my tongue to the defacing of Gods trueth is that I sayd he calleth all men Idolaters And to make the matter cléere that he spake not the words but I my selfe he maketh a briefe repetition how we fell into that matter But before we procéede any further I pray ye tell me what is the reason that I hauing set downe your whole discourse touching this poynt so that you cannot denie but that I haue also set it downe truely you forsake that and set downe by péece meale but some of your words and reason from them If I had ment in a godles manner wilfully to peruert your words would I haue deliuered them whole and together in print It seemeth ye haue some hope that some men will reade your booke which will not compare it with mine or which being carried with blind heate cannot Now I craue no more of the reader but to marke the whole speach which you deliuered and mine answere to it and to iudge indifferently If Master Greenwoods words bee not such as must needes include that which I haue collected let me beare the blame for that matter which is one of the least He saith I haue an euasion to auoide this foyle because I sayd I tooke it we reasoned about such grosse Idolatrie as a Church is to bee condemned and forsaken for which is defiled therewith He saith he neuer reasoned to that end in this whole discourse And I say then he must go from his owne words which affirme that read prayer offered vp to GOD as a sacrifice is Idolatrie that to reade the prayer while one praieth is a chaunging the worke of the spirit into an Idoll a bondage and breaking of Christian libertie a thing most detestable a deuice of Antichrist Let all men iudge by these speaches what manner of Idolatrie was in question betweene vs. Master Greenwood as if he had wonne the field will needs put me to my raunsome and asketh what mends I will make him for this slandering I answer that as your victorie is but in a dreame so my raunsome must be therafter If I could sée I had done ye wrong I would be sorie Ye will haue no man free from such foule Idolatrie but yet no Idolaters No Church is free ye confesse from all spot vpon earth Hereupon ye growe againe into a newe heate and charge me out of one mouth to giue contrarie sentence because I call ye Donatists Why man are ye ignorant of this that the Donatists did confesse all men to bee sinners and yet the arguments by which they would maintaine their schisme could not bee strong vnlesse they would maintaine a perfection and some of their reasons though they ment not so reached so farre And so is it with you Brownists If one should followe ye in all the grosse absurdities which will followe from your exposition of Coh thus saith the Lord could you haue any way but to protest ye did meane no such thing Wee may not looke what men protest they hold but what doth followe of their reasons and then ye shall see that such as be in schisme and heresie are with the blasts of their swelling pride tossed and hurled vpon contrarie Rockes Now whereas I sayd the confession of the Brownists that there is no Church in earth without spottes of Idolatrie doth ouerthrowe the reasons which they bring to condemne the Church of England Because they cannot argue thus this is a fault it is Idolatrie therefore this or that assemblie which is spotted is no true Church But they must prooue the Idolatrie to bee such as destroyeth the faith c. Master Greenwood would beare men in hand that I reason as simplie as to say if there bée no true Church in earth without spots then the Church of
this Psalme was giuen to the Isralites in time of their captiuitie at Babylon or some other such calamitie to comfort and instruct them how to settle themselues and powre foorth their prayers before the Lord. But howe will you prooue that the people were to say ouer these wordes vnto God for wee may see the like by Habbacuc prescribing the people a forme of prayers to comfort themselues and deliuered it to be sung in the assemblies Moreouer after manie other wordes master Greenwood sayth thus And that singing of Psalmes is no part of prayer we may see by the exhortation which the Apostle vseth to the Ephesians saying Speake vnto your selues in Psalmes and Hymnes and spirituall songs And to the Collos where it is sayde Let the word of God dwel in ye plenteously in al wisdome teaching admonishing your selues in psalmes hymnes and spiritual songs And further we reade that Christ our Sauiour did giue thanks and then sing a Psalme after the institution of the Lords Supper for that singing is a reioysing our selues and instructing our selues Now let the reader iudge by comparing that which I haue written in my former booke with these words of his whether I or he be the godles man which dealeth by vnconscionable slaunders and with much euil conscience Master Greenwood denying the vse of prescript forme when wee speake vnto God and I alleadging the Psalmes demandeth how I wil prooue that the people were to say ouer those wordes vnto God And after as you see to prooue that the wordes were not to be vttered or said ouer to God praying he alleageth the sayings of Paule Speaking to your selues and instructing your selues in Psalmes and Hymnes and spirituall songs leauing out in both places the latter ende of the sentence of singing to the Lord. Now when I haue prooued that the verie wordes of some Psalmes were to be said ouer to God because the scripture is cleare in many places Sing Psalmes to God sing prayses to God c. and charged him with denying that the Psalmes are to be sung to God contrarie to such expresse commandement and blamed him for leauing out the parte of the sentence which maketh against him he crieth shame vpon me But master Greenwood it is the light of Gods word and the waight thereof which doth presse ye and cutteth downe all vngodly fantasies and not I. You confesse now because the scripture is plaine that the Psalmes were to be sung to God and yet ye did aske how I would prooue the people were to say ouer the words Then it followeth that the verie prescript forms of wordes were to be saide ouer to God by your confession which is the whole matter that I haue stoode to prooue And now chuse whether you will denie that Psalmes were to be sung to God or confesse that those verie wordes of the Psalmes and the prescript formes were to be said ouer vnto him in singing What will he say now This he will say that they were in those words to be song vnto God but not praying for he saith I must proue the Church did vse to reade the psalmes for praying I wonder how a man can speake to God the sentences which are praiers and not praying Againe I would haue any Brownist shew mee what speach wee can haue to God which is not praier if he say a man dooth speak to God in giuing him thankes and praise in acknowleging his benefites in ascribing vnto him all wisdome power glorie goodnes bountifulnes faithfulnes and mercie A man dooth speake to God when hee confesseth his sinnes when he complaineth of the iniuries and wrongs of others I confesse and I say withall that they be all of them parts of praier Why dooth a man giue thankes and praise and mention Gods benefits but to support his faith and hope that he shall receiue further and to moue the Lord to continue still good vnto him or such like Why doo we speake vnto him of his glorious power wisdome mercie and trueth but that our faith and praier dooth rest vpon those pillers Why doo we confesse our sinnes but as intreating for pardon and what doo we rehearse the vniust outrage of our aduersaries but to procure his iust defence and protection But hee demandeth what this maketh for reading praiers framed by men I answer to the same effect which I haue euer done that this is one of the poorest cauilles that may be among a thousand We reason not about the matter of praiers but about the reading for if the matter bee corrupt and naught the pronouncing or the reading cannot make it better If the matter be erronious it is no more authentick pronounced then read if it be pure and good pronounced the reading cannot hurt it or make it vnpure The reading it selfe is not vnpure when we speake to God for then should not the Psalmes haue béen song vpon the booke vnto him Who is so senceles then as not to sée this conclusion to follow to vtter a prescript forme of words in a Psalme when one speaketh to God is no sinne Therefore to followe a prescript forme of words in any godly praier when one praieth is not sinne for where shall we finde the sinne If it be in following a prescript forme it should haue béen vnlawfull to followe it in the Psalmes If it be in the matter because there bee errors in all mens writings and therefore to bee cast foorth then I say the errors and not the reading is in the fault and for which only there must be the casting forth and so we must cast foorth the praiers of the preachers To his next words I answer that it is not the repeating ouer the same godlie petitions againe euery day that maketh it the sacrifice of fooles but when men doo it of custome without faith and feruent affection for if a man with faith and zeale pray euery day the same praier to God it is acceptable The rest of his words are not worth the repeating and yet he concludeth most falsly that read praier hath no warrant in Gods word The next Argumentis this We may not in the worship of God receiue any tradition which bringerh our libertie into bondage read praier vpon commandement is a tradition that dooth bring our libertie into bondage Against this I opposed that Moses the Prophets and our Sauiour gaue prescript formes of praiers and if the very following a prescript forme imposed by commandement be so detestable a thing how are not they charged with this heinous sinne He answereth that here is a great storme and yet nothing but winde doo ye not know the wind may be so great as to blow downe the house vpon your head especially when the blast of truth commeth against your building which standeth vpon the rotten pillers of errours The counterfaite zeale of Cayphas against the trueth ought not to stay any man from being earnest for the truth But now to the matter your woonted song was
desires are sundrie one mooued more in one thing another in another thing some come more fitter to pray for this and some for that It is most certaine that neither the prescipt forme nor the preacher can see into these seuerall estates of mens mindes consciences or to the desires which they are most fit and prepared to expresse neither is that so much to bee regarded seeing that which should be fittest for one part should not be so fit for another but they must euery one frame himselfe to pray for al things which the assemblie doth pray for which are necessarie to be praied for at al times and of all persons Shall any man say I am not prepared to begge these things therefore they be not fit for me Let him not be so wicked but stirre vp himselfe rather to begge them with the congregation Shall any be so foolish as to say wee knowe these things before I am not mooued with them men for the most part do but repeat them of custome Nay rather let him striue against such impietie and say the things are not any thing the lesse precious which wee craue because wee heare them often or knowe them before or that many abuse them and therefore we indeuour to begge them earnestlie with all faithful ones in the assemblie seeing they bee such as are needfull to be praied for In the rest I leaue the reader to compare his booke with my former The last Argument The prayers of such Ministers and people as stand vnder a false gouernment are not acceptable Those Ministers which stand subiect to the Bishops and their Courts are subiect to a false gouernment and to Antichrist I did referre the answere of these to the third and fourth accusation but yet I did take some exception as my booke sheweth The Brownist in replying here is in great distemper I will let all his words passe and come to the matter I alleaged out of the Epistle to the Romanes Chapt. 7. that S. Paule was held in some bondage and therefore that Ierusalem from aboue is not in this world so free but that she and all her children are in some spirituall bondage At this he did crie out of Atheisme carnal Libertinisme affirming that S. Paule neuer continued captiue vnto sinne after regeneration neither gaue place vnto euill thoughts Where I haue iustly charged him with very foule matter which now labouring to wash away he doth bemire himselfe First he crieth out of wrong in diuers things without any cause Such as do touch the question of gouernment and the blasts he bloweth that way I doo here omit because his fellowes doo make replie as he mentioneth vnto those things and I must then answere Onely I deale with him now touching the place to the Romanes He willeth if I haue any common honestie to let his former answer be seene I promise ye it will be small to your credite and honestie let whosoeuer see it seeing ye doo in shameles manner crie out of wresting and I knowe not what Against my reason out of the words of Saint Paule denie if ye haue the forehead these to bee your words And now say you that Scripture which the Apostle hath set downe in the anguish of his soule concerning the inward strife of the flesh and the spirit you shamefully peruert to your owne condemnation except you repent for Paule neuer continued captiue vnto sinne after his regeneration neither gaue place vnto euill thoughts Paule speaketh there of the vnperfectnes of his owne righteousnes which maketh the lawe deadlie vnto him I will thinke you a fleshlie Libertine if you recāt not this doctrine What Atheist would thus haue defended his owne grosse sinnes Thus farre go your wordes and now let such as haue knowledge iudge what wrong I haue done ye Let them looke vpon that which I haue published and see whether I haue wrested your words or set downe any vnsound poynt of doctrine as you would yet accuse me and doo importunatelie crie out but now your words are in the light and your answere also which ye cannot vse such shifts to excuse You lay open the disagreement betweene you and me First you cannot agree to this that the regenerate may be sayd to stand in any bondage to sinne You cannot conclude against it but bring in another saying and so draw a conclusion And that is how I also affirme that one standing in bondage to open knowne sinne may in that estate bee accepted and communicated with as the seruant of Christ by outward profession both at one instant which is as to say wee may bee to mans sight the seruant of the diuell and the seruant of Christ both at one time by outward profession So none should bee excommunicate none without the world and the Church light and darknes Christ and Belial should bee mingled together Well then I aske this question both of your selfe and of your fellowes whether there be any one of ye that can stand foorth and say I see no sinne in my selfe but so soone as I haue espied I ouercome and am not at all led by it Tell me further whether ye haue not this that ye may say there is euil alwayes in ye which you cannot be rid of and that doth holde ye fast and presse ye Do ye not leaue the good vndone and commit euill and such euil as is alwayes present in ye Doe not ye find great sinnes that ye stand vnder as not able to come out of If any Brownist shall deny he is such or in this estate he can be but a proud hypocrite If yee confesse it what doe you but confesse some bondage Let me aske ye further is there any of ye which dare stand foorth and say I am not a sinner in the sight of men I stand not holden vnder any outward sinne the Brownist must aunswere these questions for he holdeth that men can not outwardly appeare sinners and be the seruants of Christ at one instant What beastly geare is this There is sinne that appeareth in the best men at al times in gesture in words in deedes in negligence in wants yea a thousand waies who is able to indure y e trial of Gods law euen in that which outwardly doth appeare in him for an howre And will yee cast foorth all in whome there appeareth sinne that he dooth abide in The grose open sinners I confesse which contemne and giue offence are to be cast foorth but are those which abide within at any time free from open sinne couetousnesse is a foule sinne so is pride selfe loue and wrath Doe all Brownists so fully shine in brightnes before men that in none of these nor any other they can bee discerned to be sinners Doth all vertue shine foorth in them And touching that which I charged you withall looke better now vpon your owne speech If there bee any modestie in ye it will be hard for ye to deny but that I haue layde no