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A91891
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The peoples plea for the exercise of prophesie. Against master John Yates his monopolie / by Iohn Robinson.
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Robinson, John, 1575?-1625.
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1641
(1641)
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Wing R1696; Thomason E1093_1; ESTC R208638
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39,795
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82
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conceived that a second oâ— third especially seeming provided to speake by seating themselues in the same place with him migâ—â— have something revealed further or otherwise theâ— he had Which Revelation the Apostle doth not oppoâ—â— to fore-going study as M. Yates thinketh but unto emulation and study of contradiction teaching thaâ— the spirit alone must be heard in the Church speaking by whose mouth soever And that there is iâ— the Church an ordinary spirit of revelation besideâ— comfortable experience these places amongst many other do clearly prove Mat. 11. 28. 16. 17 Eph. 1. 17. Pâ—il 3. 17. M. Yates ARG. 9. FRom vocation ver. 29. 32. 37. these spirituall men are called Prophets and to imagine a Prophet without a calling that which the Scripture will not endure therefore all these â—rophets either had immediate calling from God or mediate â—om men or else they took it up themselves the two first weâ—â—ant lawfull callings but this intollerable Numb 11. 28. the servant of Moses sayâ—s Forbid Eldad and Medad to prâ—â—esie his reason was because he thought they had no calling â—hich had bin true if they had taken it up without immediate â—â—piration But Moses knowing that it was from God wishâ— that the like gift might be upon all Gods people so that â—ose were true Prophets for the instant by an immediate call â—m God and the text sayes They added no further â—â—â—wing â—at as the gift ceased so did they I. Rob. ASWER â—T is true that spirituall men are called Prophets â— or rather Prophets Spirituall men what is it theâ—â— that makes a spirituall man but the gift of the â—â—irit and what a prophet ordinary or extraordinaâ—â— but the gift of prophesie ordinary or extraordiâ—â—ry Whereupon it followeth undeniable that so â—any with us or elsewhere as haue the ordinary gift â— ability to prophesie are Prophets though out of â—â—fice In this Argument he hath made a snare wherwith himselfe iâ— taken unavoidably Secondly â—â— affirme that our Prophets haue a calling which haâ—e declared formerly not to make them Prophâ— by condition or estate for that they are by the gifts but for the use or exercise of the same gift bâ—fore bestowed upon them by the Lord through the labour and industry Of Eldads and Medads prâ—phesying we shall speak hereafter onely note wâ— in the meane While how M Yates and rightly proportioneth their prophesying to their gift as wâ— doe also ours according to that of the Apostle Haâ—ing then gifts differing according to the grace that is â—â—ven to us whether prophesie let us prophesie according â— the proportion of faith or a ministery let us waite on â—â— ministery Rom. 12. 6. 7. They then that haue a gifâ— must prophesie according to their proportion M. Yates ARG. 10. FRom distinction v. 37. the Apostle from the whole Châ—â—turnes himself to their Prophets and spirituall men sheâ—ing plainely that these had some particular place aboâ— the rest and he gives them speciall charge to obserue the thing he writes to the Church therefore those were in some callâ—â— aboue others and to imagine the contrary is to run wide of tâ— current of the whole Scripture to set men in publick place wiâ—out calling is the same with confusion and disorder I. Rob. ANSW THis Argument is founded upon the groundlesse presumption with the former viz. that there is in the Church no lawfull calling for men able to â—rophesie but by officing them And for Pauls turâ—ing his speach to the Prophets ver 37. it shewes inâ—eed that they were aboue the rest after a sort and so â—hey are with us rightly preferred before others which want that endowment of the spirit by which â—hey are enabled to speake to the edification of the Church The Confirmation of the Scriptvres and reasons brought in my booke to proue publick prophesying out of office by an ordinary gift AND before wee come to examine M. Yates his Answers to the Scriptures by me produced I â—esire the Reader to obserue with mee these two â—hinges first that I doe not affirme in my book â—hat al the there alledged Scriptures are meant of orâ—inary but prophesie that the same is proued by them Neither will he I persume deny but that many â—hinges are sufficiently proued from a scripture by â—ecessary consiquence and iust proportion besides the particular properly intended in it 2. That M. â—ates so puts the questian as that it is hard to say say whether he doe mee or himsefe the moâ— iniury namely whether the places prove an ordâ—nary gift of prophesie out of office For as I do not saâ— that they proue the gift but the vse and excerciâ— of the gift bestowed by God whether ordinary â— extraordinary so neither would he haue dinied haâ— he not leaped before he had lookt but that otheâ— besides ministers haue an ordinary gift of prophesyâ— Where the Apostle requires of him that desires an office of a Bishop that he be apt to teach 1. Tim. 3. 1. 2â—and able to exhort with sound doctrine Tit. 1. 9. dotâ— he not therein most evidently teach that the gift and ability to teach preach and prophesie not onely may but must both be and appeare to be in the person to be called to the office of ministery Heâ— that is not a prophet or hath not the gift of prophesying or preaching for by his gift he is a prophet and by the use of it he occupies the place of a prophet before he be apointed a Pastor is an Idol shepherd set up in the temple of God neither doth the office giue on â—o much indeed as encrease the gift but onely giues solemn commission and charge to use it The first Scripture by me brought is Numb. 11â— 29. Where Moses the man of God wisheth that the whole people of the Lord were Prophets the Lord putting his spirit upon them This place saith M. Yates in his Answer speakes of the powring of the Spirit in an extraordinary manner may appeare by the occasion of the speach verse â—4 c. Where he also in a tedious manner as his â—â—nner is he proueth the gift of prophesying giâ—n to the 70. Elders to haue been extraordinary â—hich as I deny not so neither needed he to haue â—oved But this I affirme that hence is proued the â—wfullnesse of ordinary prophesying out of office â— men inabled thereunto And first as Moyses wiâ—ed that all the Lords people were Prophets the Lord â—ving his spirit unto them so the minister may and â—ght to wish that the Lord would so blesse the orâ—â—nary endeauours of his people now by his spirit as â—at they all might be Prophets that is able for gifts â— speak to edification The minister which desireth â—t this enuieth for his owne and the Clergies sake â—hich Moses would not that Ioshua should doe for â—s Secondly Moses makes it all one to bee a â—rophet and to have the Lord putting his spirit vpâ—â— a man Now if the Lord so giving his spirit unâ—â— a
with the rest Iohn 20. 22 23. 1 Now if the commission Apostolike were but tâ—â— giuen they were but then not before actually â—postles except he will say they were Apostles beâ—â— they had commission that is calling from Christ to bee I would now see how hee can salue â— wound which he hath given himselfe 2 After that the Lord Iesus had Mat. 11. 11. pâ—ferred Iohn Baptist aboue all the Prophets whiâ— were before him he yet adds in the same place thâ—the least in the Kingdom of heauen is greater then â—â— The least that is the least Minister In the kingdom â— heauen that is in the church of the new testameÌ„t prâ—porly called which began not till after the death â— Christ who liuâ—d and dyed a member of the Iewiâ—â—urch the Apostles then being officers of the â—urch of the new testament and Kingdom of heaâ—â— and not of the old or Iewish Church it cannot â—â— that they were Apostles in act before Christ â—ath except an adiunct can be before the subject â—d an officer before the corporation in of which is an officer â— Considering the ignorance of these disciples at â—â— time in the maine misteries of Christ of the naâ—e of his kingdom his death and â—eâ—urâ—ection â—at 20. 21. Luk. 24. 20. 21. c. â—ohâ— 20. 9. Mar. â— 14. as also how utterly 〈…〉 they were gifts befitting Apostâ—lâ—cal teaching for which â—eing an extraordâ—nary dispensotion and that in â— highest degree extraordâ—nary infallible revela direction of the spirit was â—equisit wher with â—â—y were but first â—s it seemetâ— â—pâ—inckled John â— and afterwards more plentifully filled at the day Pentecost they were as fit for an Apostleship as â—â—vid was for Sauls armour which he could not â—eild nor goe wiâ—h 4. Besides if they had the office of Apostleship â—mmitted to them Mat. 10. how was it that they â—ntinued not their ministration in that office but â—â—rning after a few dayes to their master continuâ— with him as his disciples till his death Christ Ieâ— did not keepe a company of none-residents about â—m for his Chaplins as M. Yates insinuates against â—â— Lastly we are expresly taught Eph. 4. 8. 11. â— Christ â—sâ—ended on high he gaue gifts unto men Apoâ— Prophets c. The Apostles then were first giuen â—tually at the Lords ascension and Were before oâ— designed to become Apostles or Apostles â—lect â— not ordained nor possessed of any office and therfore preached and that with warrant from Chrâ— without office The next Scripture is Luk. 8. 39. by M. Yâ— thus opened Christ hauing deliuered the man possessâ—â—ids him go and shew what great things God had â— for him and it is sayd he went and Preached that is â— be to their purpose by ordinary paines and study he prâ—â—ched the Gosple And with pitty upon us poore soâ— that cannot distinguish the publishing of amiracle â— the gift he should say the work if he distinguish as he ought of preaching he addeth that if â—â—â— had minded to haue made him a publike preacher he â— first have taken him with him and instructed him â— then haue sent him abroad 1. Let it be obserued that the word used by Mâ— for his preaching {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} is the same word which commonly used for the most solemne preachiâ— that is by the Apostles and Euangelists Secondâ— Christ bids him Mar. 5. 19. Go home and declare â— great things the Lord had done for him and had had câ— passion on him and ver. 20. he is sayd to haue publishâ— in Decapolis Luke hath it 〈…〉 â—great things Iesus had done for him Which he doâ— what else did hee but preach publish and deâ—e the great loue and mercy of God in and by Ieâ— Christ towards miserable sinners for the curing of â—ir bodily and spirituall maladies 3. Where he â—es the pyblishing of this miracle and the preaching of â— Gospel diuers things and pitties us pooâ—e soules that cannot distinguish between them as Christ bade the â—en of Jerusalem not to weep for him but for themâ—s so surely had he need tâ— pitty not us herein â— himselfe in his so great mistaking Are not the â—acles of Christ storied in the Scripture a maine â— of the Gospel and the publishing of them a â— of the preaching of the Gospel And when M. â—s opens publisheth a miracle of Christs as this â— did doth he not as well and as truly preach the â—spel as at any other time Let the wise iudge â— is to be pittied To shut up this point it is sayd â— 20. 30. that Iesus did many other signes c. and â— 21. But these are writen that yee might beleeue that â—s is the Christ the sonne of God and that beleeuing â— might haue lefe through his name The publishing â— of the signes miracles which Christ did is the â—ching of faith in his name to salvation which â— man therefore did espetially amongst them â—ch were not ignorant of the Law of Moses and â—mise of the Messiah to come which by his glorious miracles done by his owne power and in his oâ— name he both declared and proued himselfe to â—Joh 5 36 10. 37. 38. And where he adds that Câ— gaue this man commission to do that which he diâ— but â— mirs who gaue ours such authority I answer euen â— same Christ as then immediately so now mediaâ— by those unto whome he hath giuen authority uâ— himselfe for the ordering of the gifts of his spirit his Church And sufficient it is for the question â—â—tween him and me if it appeare as in this peâ— that Christ hath giuen commission to men oâ— office by an ordinary gift to publish and preacâ— publick the Gospel of saluation I doe quote next in my booke Luk. 10. â— which for that W. E. omitteth and leaues out â—Yates thanketh God but in truth he hath more â— to thanke him for sparing him a place which so pâ—nantly proueth the preaching of the kingdom ofâ— by men out of office except he can assigne some â— found office and the same but of two or three â— lasting as ver. 17. to those 70 there sent We are in the next place to come unto Joh. 4â— 29. 39. which he openeth and answereth with aâ—ration as the foâ—meâ— place witâ— pitty and comâ—sion on this manner â— simplicitie with contrâ—tion to his owne writing simplicity that cannot see bâ— preaching of the Gospel and carrying tydings of aâ— that told her to wit the woman of Samaria â— things that euer she did is not this saith she the Christ â—t besides simplicity here is contradiction for sayes M â—binson and that truly a woman is not suffered to exâ—ise an ordinary gift of prophesie in the Church and â—ll the women of samaria serue your turne that it is lawâ—â—ll for men to exercise such a gift It is indeed my simplicity to thinke that the Gosâ— as the word importeth is nothing else But glad â—dings and