so odiouse a thinge was in his eares the name of the churche that for the worde churche he gaue the worde Reipub. coÌ„mon welthe Much like honestie showed an other of youre coÌ„panions in translating the Grieke writer of the ecclesiasticall historie Socrates Who making mention of certeine lettres sent by Iulius then pope to the bishoppes assembled at Antioche wherein he repreheÌ„deth them that contrarie to the canons and rules of the churche theie had holden a Councell not calling him thither whereas by the order of the churche there maie be no Councell kepte withoute the auctoritie of the B of Rome He turned the wordes there maie be no lawes made or no councell holden into these there maie be no churches consecrate without the B. of Romes auctoritie Which wordes if they had bene so had giueÌ„ yet no small preeminence to the B. of Rome for whose licence to consecrate a churche theie shoulde be faine to runne from the fardest parte of the Easte churche to Rome in the west But seing this coulde by no meanes be the minde of the author who in that chapitre mencioneth not one worde of the dedicating of anie churche and that the complaint of the bishop had bene moste childishe and without all witte to haue saide that theie had done euel in not calling him to their councell because by the canons without his auctoritie there mighte be no churches consecrate and that also thereof he him selfe coulde not be ignorant it must necessarilie folowe that he did it of wicked malice In your doinges and allegations M. Iuell is your faithe the 〈◊〉 yowe and dealing any better No truly For if it had neuer woulde yow so falsely and vntruly haue alleaged the wordes of that excellent and learned bishop of blessed memory Steuin Gardiner B. of winchestre vpon whome in youre replie to M. Doctour Cole yow father these wordes as writteÌ„ by him in his booke called Marcus Anton. Constantius Quôd ait panem in sua substantia vel natura manere vel substantiam sentit Accidente vel naturâ— proprietatem and calle it a strange phrase of speache to say Substantiam accidente as truly it had bene if he had either so saide or written But because he did neither yow haue well signified to the worlde that it is no newe or straunge thing with yow to carie aboute in youre vnquiet heade a lieng sclaunderouse tongue The wordes of the bishop entreating of the place obiected by the heretike out of Gelasius arre these Quòd addit in sua substantia vel natura manere he meaneth panem vinum which wordes go before vel subsistentiam sentit accidentium vel naturae proprietatem The which how farre they differ from youres all men may see and youre selfe can not be ignorant This manner of dealing to laie to the catholikes charges wordes that they neuer spake vsed long ago Celsus the heretike as Origene reporteth of him But to let this passe if yow had ment which of all other in goddes matters especially yow ought to haue done to deale plainely simply and vprightely woulde yow euer haue brought ageinst the reading of sainctes liues in the churche the third councell of Carthage Woulde you haue alleaged the first parte of the canon Placuit vt praeter scriptur as canonic as nihil in ecclesia legatur that is we haue agreed that nothing be reade in the churche besides the canonicall scriptures and haue lefte oute the last Sub nomine diuinarum scripturarum vnder the name of holie scripture Wherebie might haue appeared that the scope of those fathers gathered together in that councell was not to banishe oute of the churche the legendes of sainctes liues but to agree vpon such bookes of holie scripture as the auctoritie whereof being oute of doubte theie woulde haue to be readen in the churche for scripture and no other And therefore in that canon we finde named for canonicall scripture to be reade in the churche the bookes of the Machabees the epistle of S. Paule to the Hebrues and also that of S. Iames all though theie be not enrolled in youre registâ—r of Genâ—ua And that this councell ment nothing lesse then to forbid the reading of sainctes liues in the churche the other wordes that folowe if yowe had not guilefullie suppressed them woulde well haue declared where the same councell by expresse wordes permitteth that yearelie on the martirs daies their liues maie be reade in the churche Thus plaide yow before with the decree of Anacletus excepte yowe will saie that there yowe cut of the first parte and here yowe left oute the last Thus alleaged yow corruptelie the wordes of Leo his epistle which being that the prieste maie celebrate Masse offer the sacrifice because yowe woulde not haue those wordes sticke in youre readers teethe yowe wer so bolde to change with him and as the englishe prouerbe hath to steale a goose and sticke in her place a fether Whereas for those wordes yowe saie that Leo permitteth the prieste to ministre two or three communions in one daie Thus till yowe coate the place where yowe finde those wordes will we saie that yowe haue sarued Theophilus Alexandrinus as before in the article of communion vnder one kinde I haue noted Thus alleaged yow once in a sermon that yow made in S. Peters churche in Oxford in the Lent a saing of S. Austen for the mariage of votaries then which neither he nor all the other fathers that euer wrote haue or can speake more directlie ageinst them And yet yow so cunning a Maister yow ar in youre arte made it iust to serue youre purpose For whereas S. Austens wordes ar these Quapropter non possum dicere a proposito meliori lapsas si nupserint foeminas adulteria esse non coniugia Sed planè non dubitauerim dicere lapsus ruinas à castitate sanctiori quae vouetur Deo adulterijs esse peiores that is wherefore I can not saie that such women if theie fall from their better purpose and marie that this is adulterie and not mariage but this I dare be bolde to saie that the falling and sliding awaie from holie chastite vowed to god is worse then adulterie yow deuide the senteÌ„ce iust in the middest and where he saithe that he caÌ„not calle such mariages adulterie that swete soppe yowe keepe for youre owne toothe but that which foloweth that he dareth be bolde to call such manner of dealing worse then adulterie that sower sauce yow make no mention of at all but leaue it to such scrupulouse consciences as will not breake their fast with youre deintie delicates Thus much touching youre vneuen dealing in Christes cause Whereof I can saie no more but hartelie praie to god that bothe yowe and as manie take youre parte maie earnestlie repent and be hartely sorie therefore YOVRE rebellion and open war proclaimed agenst youre prince your sacking his townes your robbing his treasour your
that will afterwardes carpe and reproue the same proue he maie wel him selfe a foole or maliciouse or not catholike but me an heretike shall he neuer proue Hetherto S. Hierome with whome if one would after this sorte expostulate What meane yowe S. HieroÌ„ to boaste so much apon the iudgemeÌ„t of one who as he is a maÌ„ although learned yet not the learnedest in the world so maie he both dâ—ceaue and be deceauid Whie saie yow that who so euer â—â—ndeth faulte with your faithe â–ª after Damasus the popes approbation and allowance thereof shall neuer be hable to proue yowe an heretike Maie not many heades finde out that wherein one hath failed Me thincketh I saie to him that should thus question with him I heare him expounding his owne wordes and answering for him selfe in this wise What arte thow man that findest faulte with my wordes and vnderstaÌ„dest not my meaning Am I thinckest thow he that will pinne my faithe to anie mans backe what so euer he be Doe not I knowe as well as thow that Damasus is a man that he maie deceaue and be deceauid yea truelie But on thother side as I knowe all this rightwell so am I not ignoraÌ„t that he that sitteth in Peters chaire that the B. of Rome in matters of faithe can not giue wrong iudgement And therefore cease to maruell if apon the trust of this priuileage I chalenge all the whole worlde and saie that of them all there is no one that can proue me an heretike whome Damasus being thus qualified hath alowed for a good christian It is not Damasus so hath this qualitie to be the chief gouernour of Christes churche altered him that I stay my self apon It is Peter it is Christ him self If apon anie other persuasion I had vsed thiese wordes â–ª well might I haue bene saide to haue abused my self But that this was euen from the beginning my meaning and not inueÌ„ted sence for my defence loke once again to my wordes where I saie not simplie I desire to be corrected of the but of the which holdest Peters faithe and seate nor yeat spake of the alowing of my faithe by Damasus but apostolatus sui iudicio by the iudgement of his seate of his apostleship Thus much touching S. Hierom. of whose minde if any man yeat doubte in this coÌ„trouersy him shall I praie to take the paines for his better instruction to reade a certeine other epistle of his to Damasus and apon these wordes which he vttred of Peters chaire Quicunque extra hanc domuÌ„ agnuÌ„ comederit prophanus est who so euer eateth the lambe he meaneth receiueth the blessed body and bloud of Christ out of this house he is prophane to serche for the iudgement of Erasmus where he shall finde in expresse wordes that S. Hieromes opinion was that all churches should be subiect to the churche of Rome S. Austen as before yow hard called Peter B. of Rome heade of the churche he tolde Bonifacius his successor that he was placed in Christes churche aboue the rest of the bishoppes And did he not well de clare by sending to the same Bonifacius his boke written ageinst the two epistles of the PelagiaÌ„s to be iudged and examined by him that he tooke him for no lesse in deede then he had pronounced of him in wordes For trulie S. Austens learning being such as in his age there liued not his matche for the perusing of his worckes bothe had he had little neede oâ— his helpe and if he had had much there liued yet manie to haue bene consulted thereapon better learned then he and more nearer to him toe then was Rome to the place where he had his abiding had it not bene that persuading him selfe as did S. Hierome in the like case before he had made his full and sure account first that his iudgement in that that he was Peters successor and heade of the churche was by the verie mouthe of Christ him selfe warranted in matters of faithe neuer to erre and nexte that his worcke being confirmed by auctoritie such as was his should so quell and beate downe to the grounde the heretikes his aduersaries as with the worlde they should neither be hable to susteine their credite gotten nor after that gaine newe Theodoritus saide of the B. of Rome Vos enim summosesse conuenit for yow must be the chiefest of all other and of the churche it selfe that it was the greatest the noblest of all other and that which gouerned all the worlde It is euideÌ„t that he wrote as he thought wheÌ„ being vniustly deposed he appealed to the B. of Rome desired his helpe and that he would coÌ„maunde him to appeare before him there to pleade his cause and showe his righte as he did in dede and was restored by him By these auctorities it appeareth M. Iuell that the fathers of Christes churche be not so thinne soweÌ„ on our side as yow beare the worlde in hande theie ar seing that I haue here brought yow not one alone as yow demaunded but manie not their bare wordes which although of theÌ„ selfe moste plaine and manifest might perhappes haue bene subiect to your wrangling interpretations but their seuerall actes and deedes the best expositors of their owne mindes confirming most manifestly the same Will yow haue nowe some allowed example of the primitiue churche to testifie the same What better examples can yowe haue then that in all controuersies arising either betwene bishop and bishop priuatelie or in the whole churche publickelie sence the beginning the B. of Rome hath bene onelie he to whome the parties grieued wer they catholikes or heretikes good or bad haue had recourse for helpe What better examples then that emongest so manie appeales made vnto him there is not so much as one instance to be giuen of some one that laufullie and orderly appealed from him and whose such appeale toke effect Who hath cited to his coÌ„sistorie euen from the fardest parte of the Easte churche and as Theodoritus writeth ecclesiasticam secutus regulâ—â— folowing the rule of the churche offenders and transgressors of the holie canons The B. of Rome Who is it without whose licence and consent the primitiue churche forbad councels to be holden or bisshoppes to be condemned Trulie the pope The whole councell of Nice affirming the same if we will giue credite to Athanasius who was present thereat and affirmeth it to be so although the canon thereof for of 70. there agree apon we haue onelie at this daie 20. be perished and not nowe to be had Where I can not but note by the waye the circumspect manner of writing vsed by Athanasius who saieth not that the councell of Nice decreed or ordeined this but onelie that by their iudgemeÌ„tes they coÌ„firmed and renewed the same His wordes ar these In Nicena synodo 318. episcoporuÌ„ concorditer ab omnibus roboratum â–ª it was in the councell holden at Nice by ful consent of all the
apon D. Coles wor des in the margeÌ„t of your boke that no B. of Rome before S. Gregories time would euer be called vniuersall biâ—shop finallie then would yowe not so ignorantlie haue confounded together these termes vniuersall bishop and heade of the churche as though theie had in that place signified all one thing The which that theie doe not no maÌ„ doeth more plainelie expresse then S. Gregorie him selfe who writeth of S. Peter after this maÌ„ner The charge saith he and supremacie of all the whole churche was committed to him and yeat was he not called vniuersall apostle Lo M. Iâ—ell if you had taken the paines to haue scanned the place of S. Gregorie alleaged by yow by this and such other would yow euer haue brought in to the lighte this deade mouse this false argument and vntrue consequent There was neuer anie B. of Rome called or that would be called by the name of vniuersall bishop therefore â–ª theie be not or ought not to be heades of the churche Seing that S. Peter as saithe S. Gregorie had the charge of the whole churche although he wer neuer called by the name of vniuersall apostle If S. Peter might be heade of the churche and without anie absurditie haue the charge thereof as S. Gregorie thought although he wer not called vniuersall apostle whie should yow thicke it now anie more impossible for the pope to be called head of the churche although he be not called vniuersall bishoppe And so haue yowe by the waie an answer to your wise demaunde also that is if no B. of Rome would euer take apon him to be called th'vniuersall bishoppe or heade of the whole churche for the space of six hundred yeares after Christe where then was the heade of the vniuersall churche all that while or howe it coulde then continue without a heade more theÌ„ nowe For we saie vnto yow that that is moste false and vntrue which yowe lay for a grounded truthe that is that no B. of Rome woulde euer be called by the name of heade of the churche within the first six hundred yeares after Christe as hath bene sufficientlie proued before and that also as we haue declared yowe abuse your selfe in the framing of your saide questioÌ„ in taking for all one the heade of the churche and the vniuersall bishoppe And thus haue yow one cause whie this place of S. Gregorie maketh nothing ageinst the supremacie of the B. of Rome And other cause is for that that Iohn the B. of Constantinople by this name or title of vniuersall bishoppe vnderstoode him selfe onelie to be a bishoppe and none elles Which meaning neither in the first six hundred yeares nor at anie time sence anie B. of Rome that I could yeat heare of euer had And that this is the true meaning of S. Gregorie and not forced by me the verie wordes of the same man written to Iohn archebishop of Constantinople doe well witnesse with me Qui enim indignum te esse fatebaris vt episcopus dici debuisses ad hoc quandoque perductusâ— es â–ª vt despectis fratribus episcopus appetas solus vocari that is to saie for thow Iohn B. of Constantinople which once grauntedst thy selfe to be vnworthie the name of a bishoppe art nowe at the length comme to that passe that thowe labourest to be called a bishop alone And a little after Thow goest about saieth he to take awaie that honour from all other which by singularitie thow desirest vnlaufullie to vsurpe to thy selfe Thus maie yowe see M. Iuell howe this place being by th'author him selfe expounded fardereth yow nothing at all and also by suche auctorities and reasons as haue for our parâ—e bene before alleaged vnderstand howe vnaduisedlie it was saide of yowe that the catholikes as sure as god is god if theie would haue vouchesaufed to folowe either the scriptures either the auncieÌ„t Doctours and couÌ„cels would neuer haue restored again the supremacie of the B. of Rome after it was once abolished Doe yow not hereby giue occasioÌ„ to meÌ„ to thinke that your lacke of faithe and mistrust in goddes omnipotency in other thinges groweth euen thereof that yow thincke god is not god For towching the supremacie hauing in the scriptures nothing in the councels as little in the fathers writinges onelie thiese fewe wordes that might se me to impugne the same and yet doe not howe will yow be able to discharge so manie auctorities of the fathers such consent of councels such conformitie of examples and force of reasons as haue bene and maie be brought ageinst yow howe will you satisfie your owne conscience which telleth yowe that so manie ceremonies so manie ordonances so manie decrees of bishoppes of Rome as Thomas Beacon otherwise called Theodore Basile or by what name so euer he be elles termed hath heaped together deliuered by them to the worlde some of them as emongest a nombre that which of all other yowe make lest account of holie water within little more then a hundred yeares after Christe and the most parte in the pure state of the primitiue churche would neuer haue bene by such common and generall confent without contradiction of anie receiued by the whole worlde vsed and frequented in all the churches scattred and dispersed thorough out the same onlesse the authors thereof had had vniuersall auctoritie to establishe that which hath bene vniuersallie receiued Thus hauing hetherto touching the supremacie saide so much as maie presently serue for your chalenge leauing the rest for a whole booke either by me when god shall sende better laisure or some other better able when he shall thincke best to be thereof made I shall nowe passe to the nexte article in question THAT THE PEOPLE VVAS TAVGHT VVITHIN THE FIRST SIX HVNDRED YEARES AFTER CHRISTE TO BELEVE that in the Sacrament of the altar for so dothe S. Austen terme it is conteined Christes bodie reallie substantiallie corporalie and carnallie TErtullian an auncient writer of Christes churche reporteth of heresie that the nature thereof is either when it is pressed with the auctoritie of scripture to denie it platlie to be scripture or if she receiue it with additions and detractions to the framing of her purpose to peruert it or finally with false gloses and vntrue expositions in such sorte to water it that it maie seme to haue a far other sense then had euer the holie ghost the author thereof This lesson and manner of olde heretikes was neuer I trowe more diligently put in execution or earnestlie practised theÌ„ in this our most miserable and wretched time nor in anie controuersie more perspicuouse and easie euen at the eye to be perceiued then in this of the moste blessed sacrament of Christes owne bodie and bloude For when our aduersaries demaunde of vs scripture for the confirmation of our parte and we bring them the wordes not of Peter not of Paule not of anie of thother apostles but of Christe him selfe that
auteÌ„ ministri adsint pro viribus quas eis dominus subministrat omnibus subuenitur alij baptizaÌ„tur alij recoÌ„ciliantur nulli dominici corporis coÌ„muni one fraudantur that is to sai If the ministres be present according to the strength that god hath giuen theÌ„ all men ar holpen some ar baptised other some ar recoÌ„ciled none ar deceiued of the communion of our lordes body Much more might here be saide touching this point wer it not that I am lothe to trouble yow with the ofteÌ„ repeating thereof that I feare me you ar sory to haue hard so much as once And therefore if this satiâ—fie you not for the rest I remitte you to that learned worcke of late sette furth at Loâ—ainâ— wherein you haue I doubte not allready for this matter founde such stoare of testimonies such weight of auctorities as in your owne iudgement yow maie haue cause to thincke tâ—at yow holde by the worst ende of the staffe Your obiections also ageinst the catholike faithe in this article because they arre there with like dexteritie answered and soluted I here passe ouer in silence One I excepte emongest the rest which because yow mencioned it not in your sermon where vnto the author without wandring any farder kept him selfe he also in his booke speaketh not of The place that yow bring ageinst vs is yow say out of Theophilus Alexandrinus and is alleaged by yow without cotation after this sorte Si Christus mortuus fuisset pro diabolo non negaretur illi poculum sanguinis If Christe had died for the diuell the cup of the bloud should not haue bene denied him Here M. Iuell good faithe and true dealing woulde that yow shoulde haue coted to vs this place But I feare me it will so fall oute in the ende that in all Theophilus worckes there shall no such place be founde True it is that these wordes we finde in him Si enim pro demonibus crucifigitur vt nouorum dogmatum assertor affirmat quod erit priuilegium aut que ratio vt soli homines corporieius sanguinique coÌ„municent non demones quoque pro quibus in passione sanguinem suum 〈◊〉 That is to say for if Christ wer crucified as this 〈◊〉 of newe doctrine affirmeth for the diuelles also what priuileage haue men or what reason shoulde there be why they onelie should be partakers of his body and bloud and not the diuelles also for whome in his passion he should haue shed his bloud If this be the place that you meane why alleage you it so falsely and corrupte bothe th'authors wordes and minde If this be not it then showe vs where we shall finde it which if yow coulde doe then shoulde yow be answered in this wise that in Theophilus time the vse of this sacrameÌ„t was indifferent to be receiued as the deuotioÌ„ of the receiuor thereof serued him either vnder bothe the kindes or one alone as a thing by Christ so left and the libertie whereof the church directed by the holy ghost had not as then in any wise restreined So that at those daies the prieste had doen him opeÌ„ wrong to whome desiring bothe the kindes he woulde haue giuen but onely one yea if it had bene the diuell that he had denied it to if Christ had died for the diuell But now I praie yow applie this testimony to the present state of the churche which nowe is and you shall see how handsomly it fitteth yow Theophilus Alexandrinus when the churche had as yet not restreined the vse of this sacrament touching the laie people to one kinde was of the minde that in this case to denie to the diuell if Christe had died for him the cup had bene a disordre Therefore now that the churche hath decreed that they shall communicate vnder onely one he is also of the same minde Thus must yow reason if yow deale truly which if you doe how little this place maketh for your purpose a meane wit wilbe easely able to iudge Thus much touching this present controuersy nowe to the next which is as by our aduersaries it is termed of priuate Masse THAT THERE VVAS MASSE SAIDE VVITHIN THE FIRST SIX HVNDRED YEARES ALTHOVGH THERE VVER none that did receaue with the priest OVr lorde be thancked therefore truthe which well may be for the tyme pressed but neuer shalbe vanquished hath at the length with much a doe gotteÌ„ of her enemies maugre their heades the confession of that which hetherto they haue all so stoutely denyed For now relinquishing and geuing ouer their olde plea that the Masse is a new inuention the name strange and to the auncient doctours vnknoweÌ„ they flee to an other shyft as here by their common proctour M. Iuell yowe may good readers perceiue and saye that there was no priuate Masse in all the whole world for the space of six hundred yeares or more after the apostles time Here M. Iuell forasmuch as this terme priuate which by reason of the equiuocation that it hath might haue brought vs into some doubte how yow had vnderstand it is by yow expounded in diuerse places of your sermoÌ„ to be taken for the priestes sole or alone receiuing of the â—acrament without company and so as yowe take it as this worde priuate is contrary to publike or common to many And yowe herein stick not scrupulously in the other significations thereof as some of your fellowes doe that is that that Masse is no lesse priuate which is saide in priuate mennes houses out of the church or which is done especially for some one man or woman but seeme honestly to confesse that S. Austen mencioneth these two kinde of masses the first in his bookes de ciuitate Dei where he reporteth that a priâ—st of his diocesse saide Masse in a ferme or house of the countrye troubled with euell sprites who immediatly thereapon none otherwise theÌ„ do the heretikes of our time auoyded the place and were no more hard of Where we might also stande apon this till the contrary were proued that the priest receiued then alone For by the place it appeareth not of any that receiued with him The second in his bookes of confessions Where he telleth vs that he offred for his mother after her deceasse sacrificiuÌ„ praetijnostri the sacrifice of our raunsome Forasmuch I saie as yow seme not to pitche in these last pointes I shall assaye to satisfie yow in the first and then after to answere such obiections as you make for the fortifieng of your parte Yow saie that within the first six hundred yeares after the apostles and more there was no Masse saide in the churche vnlesse there were some that did receiue with the priest Against this I reason thus Chrysostome liued within the space of fower hundred yeares after the apostles time but Chrysostome and the priestes in his time sayd Masse when none did communicate ergo to you M. Iuell within the first six hundred yeares after
yeat neuer was there any so vehement that could make all to hide their heades that some there were not who euen to the teethe of the proudest tyrants of them all standing at defence apon the walles defended not stoutely Christ and his churche For if it had bene otherwise then had the diuell as before hath bene sayed gotten the victorie and Christ taken the foile then had the churche which at Christes departure hence was bothe seene and knowen whereas by this meanes it should be neither not onely haue bene nothing at all auaunced but also in deede much abased By this that hath bene alleaged I trust you see M. Iuell and will easely confesse if not with me with Caluin yeat your late capitaine that Christes church◠must needes be visible that as his reason is we may knowe it to ioyne our selues thereto For a pooer piller shoulde it elles be to leane vnto and as homely a house for succour to flie to if when a man should stand in distresse and neede thereof he wer suer neuer to see it or knowe it by which meanes he should finde it Next after this yow will graunte I hope that this churche of Christ hath alwayes kept with it the truthe of gods worde and right vse of his sacramentes and in fewe wordes to comprehend all that it neuer yeat erred in any necessarie point of doctrine For if it haue as in your apologie yow labour in vaine to proue it maye then shall yow heare once again and as often as yow so saie yow must not thinck much to heare that Christ hath not kepte touche with his churche that he was from home when the diuell was there that hell gates by which one right well vnderstandeth heresies haue preuailed against it the contrary whereof after the scriptures S. Austen emongest the auncient writers most plainely affirmeth Thirdly it hath bene proued that this churche of Christ is not in partes but dispersed ouer the whole and therefore called catholike as much to saye as vniuersall Last of all the truthe will compell yow to confesse that there is no certein nombre of yeares limited or prefixed for the churche to be visible after which time it should be darckened and not be seene no more thē Christes promise made to aide it for euer can berestreined to any such certeine or determinate time Which being true then foloweth it that the churche hath bene aswell visible and preserued from errours thiese nine hundred yeares last past as it was in the six hundred before And then if it be so in what a plight yow be which confesse for vs that for nine hundred yeares the practise of the churche hath ronne on oure side we prouing for oure selues that for the six hundred yeares before it hath doen the like I praye you well to considre to laie youre hand apon youre hart and thincke apon it seriously This fundation layed let now yow and me imagine together which I haue oftentimes doen with my self alone that we were fiftie yeares agoe bothe mē liuing together in this worlde of good yeares and discretion that beginning then to mislike and suspect the religion thorough all the worlde vsed we sought for the churche of Christe which we were persuaded not to be emongest them who preached the worde and ministred the sacramentes as they did such a church for example as nowe is in England to be seene where the head should be a laie man a womā or a childe in no wise a priest where should be but two sacramentes where there should be no sacrifice yea the very name should be odiouse where in the sacrament of the altar should be saied to be nothing but bread and wine in the which there should be no inuocation of sainctes no prayeng for the dead no abstinence from meates on prescript daies where onely faithe should be taught to iustifie good worckes to be nothing auaileable or meritoriouse to the doers and finally in all pointes qualified according to the directiō of youre cōmunion booke Let vs I saie imagine that all waies presupposed that such a churche as I haue described is the true churche of Christ where we should in those daies haue sought after it where we should after long seeking to ioine our selues thereto to harbour our selues therein to rest oure backes thereat being all forweried with wādring from opinions to errours from errours to heresies haue at the length foūde it Or let vs discourse with oure selues whē after all this busie searche and diligēt enquiry therefore it appeared in no place what we had bene likely to haue saied the one to the other Truly what we would haue saied I know not but what we bothe should I know right well We should first haue entred in to a merueilouse mislike with oure owne wittes who being in nombre but two in learning and wisdome not the most excellent in a country on th' one side ageinst the whole wisdom of the world on the other had euer fallē in to any such foolishe fantasy or furiouse frenesy as to condēne the doings of all the rest to bring in place oure doltish dreames to thincke our selues onely to see and all other mē to be blinde to beleue that the moste learned the moste vertuouse should erre and we onely priuileaged that we might not We should haue remēbred our selues and with S. Austen haue saied Qui nō vult sedere in consilio vanitatis nō euanescat typo superbiae quaerens conuenticula iustorum totius orbis vnitate separata quae non potest inuenire Iusti autem sunt per vniuersam ciuitatē quae abscondi non potest quia supra montē constituta est montē illum dico Danielis in quo lapis ille praecisus sine manibus creuit impleuit vniuersam terrā He that will not sitte in the coūcell of vanitie let him not vanishe away with the shadowe of pride seeking after conuenticles of iust men the vnitie of all the world being seuered which he shall neuer be able to finde For the iust ar dispersed thorough out that vniuersall citie which can not be hiddē because it is founded apō a hill euē that hill that Daniel speaketh of in the which that stone that was cut forth without handes grew and filled the whole worlde Besides this we should haue iudged our selues men altogether faithelesse that giuing no more credite to Christes promise we would thincke his churche to haue byn by him at any time forsakē and the whole world inuolued and wrapped in an vniuersall darckenesse Whereas true faithe and good reason ought on the contrary part to haue persuaded vs that we had our selues rather bene starcke blinde not hable to see then that conspicuouse citie on the top of the hill sene of all other men should be remoued or quite ouerthrowen and Christ false in his promise If we should haue thought and saied thus then M. Iuell as I see no cause why we should haue
saye or any other so much as one example of crueltie that maye be able to matche this For who woulde euer thincke in men endowed with reason and those especially whose mouthes and tongues sounde so commonly the Gospell the Gospell such inhumanitie shoulde haue bene founde as first to cut of the priuy partes of their ChristiaÌ„ brother then to frie them after to cause him by violence to swallowe them downe and last of all to rippe the stomacke of him being yeat a liue to see what was become thereof Maruell not now good readers if at S. Macarius they buried the catholikes quicke if they cut the very infantes in two if they ripped the bellies of priestes and drewe oute by little and â—â—ttle their entrailles winding the same either about some sticke or tree Maruell not if at a vilage called Patte sixe or seuâ—n leagues distant from Orleance they spared not so much as the innocent age of infancy but whereas two little children had by chaunce gotten oute of the belfrie whither the residue to the nombre of twenty or fiue and twenty were for their sauegarde fledde these cruell murderers not gospellers but manquellers meting with them in their flight brought them backe againe and threwe them in to the fier there to perishe with the reste If I shoulde here particulerly reherse all the cruell and horrible actes done by the Caluinistes in Fraunce a whole booke truly shoulde I make thereof This which allready hath bene brought maye suffise for the comparing of them I will not saie with the Donatistes onely but with the moste cruell and barbarouse tirauntes that euer liued Of the rest who so is desierouse to haue more perfect knowledge him remitte I to the booke entituled Du Saccagement des Eglises printed at Paris and written by Claudius de Sainctes oute of the which I haue takeÌ„ what so euer hath here bene alleaged touching this cruell dealing of theirs Arriani The nexte comparison is of oure gospellers with the Arrians Whose vilanie and hatred towardes the blessed sacrament of the altar was such that they trode it vnder their wicked feete The churches in Africa they ouerthrewe and made of them stables for their horses Of the vestimentes and altar clothes they made shurtes and breeches They burned the bookes they spoiled the churches of their ornamentes as in an epistle written by the bishoppes of Egypte to Marcus the pope it appeareth more at large Finally as Gregorius Nazianzenus writeth mysteria verterunt in comoedias The misteries of oure religion they turned in to plaies and comedies What one thing is there of all these that yow and your companions haue omitted to doe M. Iuell wherein agree yow not with them Can yow saye that yow haue not abused the sacrament by treading it vnder youre feete That yow haue not ouerthrowen churches and turned them to worse vses then to stables that yow haue not made breeches shurtes yea cotes for plaiers and dizzardes of the holie vestimentes and altar clothes that yow haue not burned the churche bookes and other ornamentes and moste shamefully spoiled the temple of god haue yow not to conclude which I tremble as often as I remembre turned the misteries of oure faithe the sacramentes of the churche the pledges of oure redemption into comedies and playes I woulde to god yow neuer had But as it is more manifest that yow haue so done then that it can be denied so seme yow to giue little token of repentaunce thereof when yow brag of youre infamouse companie of plaiers that they arre one of the three engines set vp of god to plucke downe the popes triple crowne as much to saye although yow plainely expresse it not as to ouerthrowe all true religion Iulianus Apostata the yeare 365. Iulianus the emperour who of a good and vertuouse catholike prince became sodenly a cruell wicked and tirannouse persecutor of Christ in his membres beganne the foundation of this goodly newe religion of his with the robbing of churches and spoiling the cleargie of their priuileages He banished aftâ—rwarde the priestes and faithefull he ouerthrewe the aultars and caused the sacrifice to ceasse as in a sermon that Chrisostome made of the two martirs Iuuent and Maximus who being bothe souldiours and men of armes woulde he saith sacrifice and offer vp them selues to god seing the sacrifice of the churche ceassed it maye moste manifestlie appeare He reproued the Christians as witnesseth Cirillus and called them wretched men for doing reuerence as then was the guise of Christian men to the crosse of Christe for making the signe thereof in their forheades for painting of it on the doores of their houses he reproued them for worshipping the reliques of martirs for visiting their tombes for praieng to them at their graues and sepulâ—hres calling them deade men He ouerthrewe the image and picture of Christe The arcke or shrine wherein were religiously kepte the bones of S. Iohn Baptist he brake open burnt them and dispersed abroade the asshes Now to make the comparison Whether yow contemne as Iulianus did the crosse of Christe whether with him yow call them wretched men that reuerence it that make the signe thereof on their foreheades that painte it on their doores kepe it in their houses let youre burning and breaking of so many thousandes youre banishing them oute of the churches youre troubling and vexing of such honest men as being desirouse to haue with them some liuely remembraunce of Christes deathe and passion to stur vp their colâ—e deuotion to moue their dull and heauy affectioÌ„s kepe them for that purpose youre iudgementes agreing all on him whome entring in to a churche falling vpon his knees yow beholde marcking his forheade with this signe which was notwithstanding once as witnesseth Chrisostome the manner of kinges at their entraunce in to the churche to be moste assuredly an enemie to Christes gospell Finally let that horrible acte done in the late troubles in Fraunce by youre companions who in the contumelie of the same comming in to a churche where was the image of Christe crucified strangled first two priestes and then hanged them vp after on either side of it be a moste ample and sufficient testimonie thereof As for the rest denie that yow agree with him if yow can So little shall that displease me that yow shall I protest make me very glad to heare thereof giue me good cause to hope and occasion to praie that at the length yow will and also maie falling awaye from all other heretikes and all their diuelishe heresies drawe home to the lappe of youre mother that suer sanctuarie from whence to your owne harme and her greate griefe yow haue so farre strayed Ethnikes Iues. The Ethnikes and heathen men brake the image of Christe as Sozomenus writeth The Iues as Athanasius reporteth crucified it on a certeine time euen as their fathers did Christe him selfe They asked of him in
our aduersaries them selues I appeale to their consciences knowe right well that we might abundantlie and in greate store haue heaped together onelie because the gainesaiers might happelie haue excepted ageinst them that not with standing they wer martirs and in the whole course of their liues verie apostles yet because they wer bishoppes of Rome theie wer not in that cause which was their owne indifferent witnesses so would I also haue forborne the alleaging of this answer of Innocentius for the same cause had it not bene that S. Austen him selfe had iustified his parson ageinst our aduersaries in this behalfe For he writing to one Paulinus a bishoppe after long discoursing with him touching the heretikes Pelagius and Celestius telleth him at the length howe the councels of Carthage and Mileuite had written about them and their heresies to Innocentius the pope not onelie the certificate of their doinges but also certeine familier letters beside To all the which saieth he ille no bis rescripsit eodeâ— modo quo fas erat atque oportebat apostolicae sedis antistitem he answered vs by his lettres againe euen as it was right and as was for the B. of the apostolicall See meete Nowe I praie yowe considre here with your selues good Readers â–ª if Innocentius when he wrote to these fathers to auaunce him selfe and his See had being led thereunto by blinde affection without the warrant of goddes worde the vsage of the churche the auctoritie of the canons praised them that keping and obseruing the examples of antiquitie and hauing in remembrance the ecclesiasticall discipline they had referred as theie ought their doinges to his iudgement if he had besides borne them in hande that the auncient fathers had decreed not by mannes iudgement but by goddes him selfe that what so euer wer to be doen wer it of those prouinces that wer neare to Rome or far of it should not be determined before that it wer brought to the knowledge of that seate of his if he had excommunicate Pelagius and Celestius without auctoritie and finallie doen and saide so manie thinges as ar in his saide epistles more at large to be sene for the prerogatiue of his churche and all false howe had then S. Austen saide trulie that he answered in all pointes aright and as the B. of the apostolicall seate shoulde Shall we thincke that S. Austen was ignorant and so deceauid or that he flattred and so lied Orcan we iustly thincke that S. Austen if he had not taken him as heade of the churche would euer haue willed him to haue cited Pelagius being not then in Britaine but in the east partes as in the same epistle it appeareth to co me to Rome But thus much be saide by the waie to that question whie I rather vse the auctoritie of Innocentius then anie of those other popes before him I might here bring furth for examples alowed of the primitiue churche seing hetherto they haue bene practised and neuer disalowed howe that Vrsatius and Valens two ringleaders and chiefe capitaines emongest the Arrians at the length being wearie of their heresies and har telie sorie therefore of alâ— the bishoppes in the worlde went to no other but to onelie Iulius the pope to be absolued and by him receiued into the churche and admitted to the coÌ„munion and coÌ„panie of the faithefull as witnesseth Epiphanius and other howe that the same Iulius restored to their bishoprikes being vniustely depriued Athanasius to Alexandria Paulus to Constantinople Marcellus to Ancyra and Asclepas to Gaza all in the East churche and therefore impossible to haue bene doeÌ„ had not his auctoritie bene vniuersall I might here put yow in remembrance of a nombre of bishoppes of Rome that wrote their lettres in to the fardest parte of the worlde sometimes commaunding other whiles forbidding this or that of the like that directed their commissions to this bishop and to that to execute their auctoritie in countries and prouincies far from Rome as namelie to passe ouer Pius Victor Fabianus and such other of Leo the first who in Grece and the countries bordering thereapoÌ„ appointed the B. of Thessalonia in Fraunce the B. of Arles and in Spaine Hormisdas an other bishoppe to be his vicaires and deputes in those parties Which had bene a matter of all other to be laughed at if they writing such letters and making such delegations had had nothing or no more to doe there then other men But omitting manie other bothe before and sence that haue doen the like I shall at this time onelie alleage Gregorie the first of that name him rather then anie of the rest because in this controuersie yowe beare your selfe on his auctoritie so bolde Did not he ordeine that Maximianus the B. of Siracusa should in his stede ouersee all the churches of Scicilie Did he not write his lettres to all the bishoppes of Numidia coÌ„maunding them that they should giue ordres to no Donatistes Did he not direct his letters to Adeodatus the metropolitane of Numidia to take good heede that none wer promoted to holy ordres by mony And will yow yet M. Iuell hearing this persist in your lewde opinion that S. Gregorie then whome emongest all that range of bishops that haue either gone before him or folowed after yowe coulde neuer haue founde one that more maketh in this point for the catholike faithe and lesse for yow should be a patrone of your heresie But because it maie the better appeare to all men in what distresse yow ar that be driuen to such shamefull shiftes and extreme refuges for the vpholding of your newe founde religion I shall here occasion so aptelie offering it selfe examine that place of S. Gregorie which yowe tosse so coÌ„monlie in your mouthes repete so often in your bookes where he sharpe lie reprehendeth Iohn the B. of Constantinople for taking apon him the name of vniuersall bishop a title alltogether he saithe prophane and mete for antichriste a title which Leo his predecessour hauing offred vnto him by the whole councell of Calcedon refused Thus hath S. Gregorie To this auctoritie the trâ—the it selfe compelling me I must nedes folowe in answering that excellent clercke and man for his lerning not in one thing or two but Vniuersallie in all emongest those of the olde worlde wor thie to be reconed for for no lesse doe the wise and learned iudge him to be howe euer some foolish calfe haue in vaine murmured to the contrarie who being vrged as yowe knowe by your selfe M. Iuell with this place tolde yow that it serued nothing to disproue the souereintie as in deede it doeth not For if yow had reade S. Gregorie so diligentlie as reason woulde yow should before yowe had alleaged him so impudentlie then had yow founde that allthough the B. of Rome had neuer bene called vniuersall bishoppe yeat had that bene no proufe that he is not therefore heade of the churche theÌ„ would yowe not so foolishelie haue noted