4th For all the pretences of Infallibility in the Church of Rome they cannot decide the Controversies that are among their own Members 5th Both Popes and General Councils have contradicted one another and therefore neither of them can be infallible 6th The pretence of Infallibility in the Church of Rome is nothing but a device to uphold their Temporal Grandeur and Dominion Quest. 21. Why do you think the Church of Rome is in an Error in forbidding the reading of the Bible to the Common People Answ. 1. Because Christ commands all sorts of Men to read the Scriptures Joh. 5. 39. 2. The Berrhaeans are commended for searching the Scriptures Acts 17. 11. 3. The Fathers in the Primitive Church exhorted the People to the frequent reading of the Scriptures 4. St. Paul charges the Thessalonians to take care that his Epistle be read to all the holy Brethren 1 Thess. 5. 27. 5. In the Jewish Church every Family was to have the Law in their Houses and to teach it their Children diligently Deut. 6. 7. 6. The pretence of the Obscurity of the Scripture in many places is insignificant since the Scripture is plain enough in things necessary to Salvation 7. The Church of Rome in forbidding the Bible to the Laity discovers her fear and the weakness of her Cause least the People should see her Errors and forsake her Quest. 22. UUhy do not you believe that the Books call'd Apocrypha are Canonical Scripture Answ. 1. Because the Oracles of the Old Testament were delivered to the Jewish Church Rom. 3. 2. and these were not 2. The Christian Church receiv'd from the Jews no other Books of Canonical Scripture but what are own'd as such by the Church of England 3. The Apocrypha were not written by Men inspired by the Holy Ghost and what is Scripture must be by Inspiration 2 Tim. 3. 16. 4. Some of the Authors beg the Readers pardon for their Mistakes which is not the Language of the Holy Ghost 5. The Antient Councils have rejected these Apocrypha as not Canonical particularly the Council of Laodicea 6. In the Primitive Churches they read these Apocrypha only for the Instruction of Mens Manners but did not resolve their Faith into them no more do we Quest. 23. UUhy do you find fault with the Church of Rome for asserting that the Church of England once a Member of her Communion had no power to reform her self Answ. 1. Because every Church hath a natural right to shake off the Abuses and Corruptions which are contrary to the Word of God 2. It is God's Command to private Men not to suffer themselves to be deluded by the slight of Men and cunning Craftiness whereby they lie in wait to deceive and therefore much more is a National Church concern'd to do so 3. In vain was any Reformation hoped for from the Bishop and Clergy of the Roman Church 4. It 's the proper Office of the Bishops of a National Church to take notice what Errors creep into their Churches and oppose them 5. And that they have right to do so appears from the Examples the Church of Judah had in the times of Jehoshaphat or Hezekiah or Josiah 6. In throwing off the power of the Pope of Rome we did not throw off Obedience to a lawful Soveraign but Subjection to an Usurper 7. We did no more than what the Orthodox Churches did after the Arian Councils of Ariminum and Seleucia in setting up the Nicene Faith again which those powerful Councils had banish'd 8. We made no new Religion but restor'd the old and built no new House but only swept out of the old the Rubbish which made it unwholesom and uninhabitable The End An Account of the Conference betwixt a Jesuit of the Savoy and my Self the 2d of January Present Mr. Stephens on my side Mrs. Chamberlain and Mr. Chamberlain and the Book-binder about whom the Conference was held he having been six years of the Church of Rome but somewhat unsatisfied and Mr. Lamb. About Seven of the Clock at Night THE first thing Discoursed was about the Doctrine of Calvinists which the Jesuit said made God the Author of Sin I told him that there are several Expressions which if a favourable Construction be put upon them will appear to be otherwise Next he fell upon Luther who should say that no Man could be damned if he would but for his Infidelity I said it was true that God condemned no Man that professed himself a Christian but for his Infidelity The Jesuit asked whether if a Man committed Theft he may be call'd an Infidel I said he acted like an Infidel and in that Act was so because he acted contrary to his Belief Mr. Chamberlain putting in something about that place 1 Tim. 2. about one Mediator The Jesuit argued he wonderd we should talk of one Mediator when every Man that pray'd for the other was a Mediator I told him in a large Sense he might be called so but in the Controversie before us were meant Mediators which are religiously worshipped Here happened a great rambling Discourse about Faith As distinguished from all good Works but I told them that by Faith I did not mean the bare Assent to the Doctrine but a practical Belief as it takes in the whole Word of God and living according to it The Book-binder was gone to call Mrs. Chamberlain and coming again by this time The Jesuit said they were come to satisfie Persons under some Doubts and therefore must fall upon some more material Points and since we Protestants sent people to the Scripture it was necessary we should begin to talk of the Rule of Faith and therefore he desired to know how we knew the Scripture to be the Word of God and from whom we had received our Bible I told him we had received it from the Catholick Church whose Testimony was very considerable in this Case He ask'd hereupon when we went off from the Church From what Church we did immediately receive it I answered him both from the Western or Roman and from the Churches of the East However I told him I would fairly grant him that we had received it immediately from the Church of Rome and I desired him to make the best of it Here he asked how we could receive the true Bible from a corrupt Church I asked him whether I might not receive a Pearl from a Chimney Sweeper He said we looked upon them for Rogues and Rascals Whereupon I told him we give them no such Language However sinc he used these Names whether a Man might not receive a 100 l. in very good Money from Rogues and Rascals He then argued That we look'd upon the Church of Rome as a corrupt Church and how can we be sure that we have the true Bible since we cannot be sure that a corrupt Church had not corrupted it I told him that they confessed themselves they had not corrupted it and besides they could not corrupt it for the Cheat
have a mind to keep up a Faction I know what Language we should meet withal But will you boast say you of having derived your Orders from the Church of Rome when you believe the Church of Rome to be an idolatrous Church Madam it is not the Office of a Bishop in your Church we find fault withal but the Abuses of it A Church that 's guilty of very great corruption both in Doctrine and Manners may have something that 's good and allowable and he that retains that is not therefore guilty of her corruption nor espouses her Errors Your Idolatry is one thing and your Orders are another The Jews did take many good things from the Heathens and the Christians many commendable things from the Jews but that neither made the Jews approve of the Heathenish Worship nor the Christians allow of the Jewish Errors We are not so disingenious as to make the breach between you and us wider than needs So far as you go with Scripture and true Antiquity we hold with you where you contradict both we cannot with a safe Conscience bear you company He that sees a Pearl lye among a great deal of Trash if he take the Pearl is not therefore obliged to take the Rubbish too and if we have derived our Orders from you that infers no necessity that we must therefore consent to your Notorious Deprivations of the antient Simplicity of the Gospel The Christians heretofore that approved of the Baptism of the Donatists did not therefore presently acknowledge the Truth of their Opinions and he that should take a good custom from the Turks cannot be therefore said to approve of all things that are in the Alcoran Madam There is nothing more easie than to cavil at the most prudent Action in the World especially where People take a slight survey of things and do not with Seriousness and Deliberation weigh the Circumstances of the Fact and do not examine the inside as well as the outside and I must confess upon the best Examination of your Actions and Proceedings in this Revolt to the Church of Rome you never took the right way to be satisfied for instead of pondering the Arguments and Motives of our Departure from the Church of Rome and of the Reasons we alledge for our Church and Doctrine you made it your chief Imployment to read their Books and believed what they said to be Oracles for no other Reason but because they talked with greater Arrogance and Confidence If you say that you could not judge of Arguments having never been bred a Scholar I would but ask you how you durst change your Religion then Did you change it without reason and without ground and if you are not able to weigh the strength of Arguments how can you be sure that you are in the true Church at this time It is not talk but Arguments that must demonstrate the Truth of a Religion and if you have not sufficiently weighed the Arguments of both sides it is a thousand to one you may still be in the wrong way and you know not but you may be as much out now as you were formerly Madam so great a thing as the change of your Religion upon which no less than Eternity depends might justly have challenged some years study before you had resolved upon it To do a thing of this nature upon so slight a Survey consider whether it doth not argue Rashness and Weakness rather than Piety and Devotion To leave a Religion you have been bred and born in a Religion founded upon the Word of God and which you had liberty to examine by the Scripture upon reading a Popish Book or two without diving to the bottom of the several Controversies without reflecting on the Importance of the Points in question without studying a considerable time which Religion comes nearest to Scripture and which goes farthest off is such an Argument of Impatience that you only seem to have yielded to a dangerous Temptation of the Devil If the Controversies between the Church of Rome and us are so intricate as you say and above your capacity to dive into them you have then run over to that Church in the dark and have as little reason to be satisfied with your Proceedings as you believe you have with our way of Worship You plead that you have been sitting up whole Nights and weeping and praying that God would discover to you which is the true way to Salvation and from that time forward you found Inclinations to go over to that Church and is this a sufficient Argument to justifie your Forwardness When you had already begun to doubt whether our Church were a true Church or no because you found not that Satisfaction in it your sickly Desires wanted it was then an easie matter to give ear to confident People that magisterially and peremptorily assured you that you would find Satisfaction in their Church and being fed with this hope your Inclinations to that Church grew stronger every day as our Mother Eve the hopes of being like God suggested to her by the Serpent did egg and spur her on to eat of the fatal Tree We do not forbid People to pray to God to lead or direct them into the right way though sometimes it may be a perfect tempting of God when People are in the right way to desire God to discover to them by a sign of their own choice whether they are in it or no. But them if we pray to God to direct us we must not neglect the means God hath appointed in order to our Satisfaction but must compare Scripture with Scripture and Books with Books and Arguments with Arguments and search which Religion agrees most with the Doctrines and Practices of Christ and his Apostles and as the Noble Berrheans did examine all the Doctrines obtruded to our Belief by the Scripture and doing thus and continuing this search and these Prayers together no doubt but God in his own good time will answer us and direct us But to pray to God to direct us and not to use the means in the use of which he hath promised to direct us we do in a manner mock him or desire him to work a Miracle for us or to vouchsafe us some extraordinary Revelation when we have Moses and the Prophets and may hear them And I am confident had you joyned this way with your Prayer examined the Doctrines of the Church of Rome and compared them with the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ seen whether there be any thing like it in the Bible and searched whether Christ and his Apostles ever taught such Doctrines and done all this not slightly but seriously and solidly it 's impossible you could ever have turned Papist for if our Gospel be true that Religion can never be true for there is nothing in the World can run more counter to the Gospel than the Doctrines of that Church wherein we differ from them and they had need put the
used as a means to get Money 5. By these Indulgences men are hindred from a true Repentance for they pretend to release Men by them both from Sin and Punishment at least the People are suffer'd to think so if they do but say so many Prayers or go in Pilgrimage to such a place or fast so many days from some kinds of Meats or give a large sum of Money for the building of a Church or go to War against Infidels c. Quest. 15. Why do not you think Auricular Confession to a Priest necessary to Salvation Here you must Note That we are not against Confession in the Church of England nay our Church presses it both publick and private to God and Confession to a pious and able Minister if the Conscience be burden'd and upon a Death-bed but we dare not say as they do in the Church of Rome that a Man cannot be pardon'd or saved except he Confesses to a Priest 1. We allow not of it in the sense of the Church of Rome Because there is nothing in the Word of God that makes the neglect of it Damnable 2. The Confession used in the Primitive Church was made by scandalous Sinners publickly in the Congregation and therefore is not the same with that practis'd in the Church of Rome which commands the Confessing all mortal Sins with their Circumstances into the ear of a Priest at set times and before the receiving of the Sacrament 3. Since it is not of Divine but Ecclesiastical Institution it cannot be absolutely necessary to Salvation 4. It cannot be a Sacrament as they make it in the Chuch of Rome because it wants Christ's Institution 5. This Confession to a Priest as it is managed in the Church of Rome is no Check but rather an Encouragement to Sin Quest. 16. UUhy do not you believe that the Church of Rome is the only Catholick Church and the Mistriss of all other Churches Answ. I can never believe that the Church of Rome is the only Catholick Church 1. Because there are vast multitudes of Christians in the World which are not in actual Communion with the Church of Rome and yet are Members of the Catholick or which is the same of Christ's universal Church dispersed all the World over 2. To say That the Church of Rome is the Catholick Church is to say That a part is the whole or that a House is a whole City or that one Member is the whole Body 3. The Primitive Christians did not take the Church of Rome for the only Catholick Church 4. God hath no where in Scripture declared so much 5. To say the Church of Rome is the only Catholick Church is a most uncharitable Doctrine and to Damn the greater part of the Christian World 6. All Churches that do hold the ancient Faith contain'd in the three Creeds are Members of the Catholick Church 7. The Church of Rome is so far from being the only Catholick Church that her strange Doctrines make her at the best but a very unsound Member of the Catholick Church I do not believe That the Church of Rome is the Mistress of all other Churches in the World 1. Because there is no such Authority given her in the word of God 2. The Superiority she Claims is nothing but Usurpation 3. The Asian and African Churches heretofore rejected her Authority 4. The Eastern Churches at this day despise her Pride and pretended Authority 5. The Church of England was a free Church from the beginning and therefore justly maintains her Freedom and how should that Church be Mistress of all other Churches that takes Liberty to change Christ's Institutions and Commands and contradicts the Word of God Quest. 17. Doth the Church of Rome differ from the Church of England in any other Points Answ. Yes for she holds 1. That Extreme Unction is a Sacrament necessary to Salvation 2. That it is unlawful for Priests to Marry 3. That she is infallible 4. That the Scripture is not to be read in a vulgar Language by the common People 5. That the Books call'd Apocrypha are Canonical Scripture 6. That the Church of England had no Power to Reform her self All which we deny as contrary to Scripture and Reason Quest. 18. Why do not you believe that Extreme Unction is a Sacrament necessary to Salvation Ans. 1. Because that Unction or anointing sick Persons Jam. 5. 14 15. was a miraculous Gift and therefore not necessary to be continued 2. Christ did never institute this miraculous Unction as a Sacrament 3. The Unction they use in the Church of Rome hath no miraculous effects 4. The Apostles an̄ointed sick Persons that they might recover In the Church of Rome they anoint dying Persons who are past Recovery 5. In that place of St. James the saving of the sick Person is ascribed to the Prayer of Faith not to the anointing 6. The Sacrament of the Lords Supper is sufficient to comfort the dying Man Quest. 19. Why do you look upon their forbidding Priests to marry as unlawful Answ. 1. Because St. Paul permits a Bishop and indeed all Clergy-men to marry 1 Tim. 3. 2. 8. 11. Tit. 1. 6. 2. The same Apostle saith to all Men in general It is better to marry than to burn 1 Cor. 7. 9. 3. The same Apostle calls forbidding to marry a Doctrine of Devils 1 Tim. 4. 1. 3. 4. St. Peter himself an Apostle and a Priest was a married Man 5. Several of the Bishops in the Primitive Church were married Men such as Spiridion Chaereman Phileas Gregory Nyssen Gregory Nazianzen both Father and Son Hilary and others 6. It was Pope Hildebrand or Gregory VII the same that first presumed to depose Soveraign Princes that made the Clergy renounce their Wives contrary to Scripture a Man guilty of the greatest Crimes imaginable Quest. 20. Why do not you believe the Church of Rome infallible Answ. 1. Because it is only a Pretence founded neither in Scripture nor Antiquity 2. It is a Church that hath err'd both in Doctrine and the Worship of God most notoriously 3. God hath no where promis'd to make any one Church infallible 4. Themselves are not agreed where this Infallibility lies whether in the Pope or in a general Council or in the diffusive body of Christians 5. The Word of God is the only infallible Rule to walk by 6. There is no need of a visible infallible Judge for deciding of Controversies For 1st Controversies may be decided without such a Judge as they were in the Primitive Church the Bishops meeting in Council and arguing against Hereticks from the Word of God 2d A meek humble peaceable and charitable Temper would decide Controversies better than all the pretended infallible Judges in the World 3d. We do not find that when there were infallible Judges here on Earth such as Christ and his Apostles that all Controversies did cease Notwithstanding their presence there were Schisms and Heresies even among the Christians 1 Cor. 11. 19.
People These must certainly be the Reasons why we cannot now pass with the Church of Rome for Members of the Catholick Church That these things were not in the Antient Catholick Creeds I hope you are convinced for you have read them over and found none of all these Additions in them And now I beg of you in the name and by the mercy of that Jesus in whom you believe to judge which is most likely to be the truly Catholick Church ours or theirs Ours that keeps to the truly antient Catholick Faith or theirs that hath added things contrary to Scripture and Reason and Antiquity And dare you continue in a Church where your very Communion with it is an Approbation of their Actions which are directly contrary to the command of Christ Can there be any thing more contrary to it than their denying the Cup to the Laity And when you receive the Sacrament but in one kind contrary to Christ's Command do not you sin and allow of the Sin of that Church you are in Is not your Disobedience to Christ's Command a Sin or can you imagine that you are more obliged to obey Men than Christ himself You confess you dare not live in any one Sin But how dare you live in this Sin You talk of the benefit of Confession and Absolution when that very Priest to whom you confess and who absolves you lives in that Sin you are guilty of and neither absolves himself nor you from it and you both continue in it as if the Blind had a mind to lead the Blind How dare you act thus against your Reason and Conscience Are you not afraid when you are going to confess that God will laugh at your Mock Confession since you neither confess that Sin of living contrary to Christ's Command about the Cup nor are willing to part with it Tell me not here that you drink the Blood of Christ in eating his Flesh if so to what purpose doth the Priest consecrate Wine for himself if he drinks the Blood of Christ in eating his Flesh But suppose the Bread were transubstantiated into the Flesh and Blood of Christ you know that the not giving the Cup of Blessing to those that come to the Lord's Supper is contrary to Christ's Institution who distinctly consecrated the Cup and gave that to his Disciples who were Representatives of all Believers as well as the Bread and peremptorily commanded Drink ye all of this and I hope you do not call eating the consecrated Wafer drinking the Wafer But let Us grant you your strange Doctrine that you do participate of the Blood of Christ in eating the consecrated Wafer who gave your Church Authority to alter Christ's Institution How can Men dispence with an express Law of God Can they annull what God would have Established and continue to the Worlds end And can you consent to so great a Sacriledge Doth not some horror seize on you when you seriously think that you approve of the Priests sinning against so notorious a Precept and which he that runs may read And pray Madam wherein have you bettered your self in going over to the Roman Church Is this your proficiency in Religion to forsake a Church where you felt the lively Oracles of Heaven coming warm upon your Soul and to joyn your self to a Church where you hear nothing but Latine Prayers and where the Priest if he be not a good man may as well Curse you as Bless you for any thing you understand of his Language or Devotion Is this Your proficiency in Religion to leave a Church where you were taught to Worship God in Spirit and in Truth and now to cleave to one where they teach your Prayers to go upon Crutches of Crucifixes Beads and Images Doth this look like that Noble Religion which Christ taught the World and whose design was to advance our Rational Souls by Contemplation and Meditation O Madam you are too Young to know the Tricks of that Church you live in they are more politick Heads than yours is that had the contriving of it Bold Men that had Learnt not to Blush at a Lye and then thought it their interest to Hector the World into a belief of it We that can Read Books as well as they and know the History of the Church as well as they can see through all these devices which they perceiving are angry with Us for discovering the Cheat. What was it Madam that you wanted in our Church to carry you to Heaven did you want that which the Apostles and the Primitive Christians never wanted I mean did you want more Articles of Faith than they subscribed and believed If you wanted that we Confess we could not supply you for we dare say nothing and believe nothing with Divine Faith but what Moses and the Prophets and Christ and his Apostles have taught us If the Scripture contains all things necessary to Salvation then we teach all that If the Church of ROME knows more Articles than Christ or his Apostles knew of we will admire her insolence but cannot satisfie her unreasonable desire Did you want strictness of Life in our Church If all the Commands of the Gospel can make you Holy We teach them all and press them upon the People and I presume you do not aim to be Holier than Christ and his Apostles would have you to be Hath the Church of ROME another Gospel to teach you than that we did instruct you in if they have much good it may do them We are not fond of the Apostle's Curse Should an Angel from Heaven bring another Gospel to you let him be accursed I know your common Plea that We Protestants cannot rightly interpret the Scripture because We pretend to no infallibility And do you blame Us for not being so impudent as the Church of ROME There is no Protestant but would be glad there were an infallible Interpreter of Scripture instituted by God and recommended to Mankind But where shall we find him Who is it that God hath imparted this Honour to If you say the Fathers you know not what you say for the Fathers differ many times as much in interpretation of the Scipture and are as contrary to one another as any Men. If you say the Church that 's a hard Word if you mean Christ's Universal Church dispersed all the World over you must tell us where it is that this Church hath left an infallible Comment upon the Bible and how is it possible for a man that will be resolved in a point to go to all Christian People in the World if you say the Church of ROME you must first shew Us her Commission for this infallible interpretation Secondly you must prove She hath infallibly interpreted the Scriptures and that those interpretations are infallible in all places Thirdly you must agree among your selves what part of your Church is infallible whether the Pope or an Universal Council or all Christian People or whether all these
Bible among prohibited Books for should the People have liberty freely to peruse it the Church of Rome would grow very thin and despicable I am sensible your Priests find fault with our Translation of the Bible and cry out that there are great defects in it but when they talk so they had need talk to Women not to Men of Learning and that undestand Greek and Hebrew the Languages in which the Word was originally written The Honesty of our Translators appears sufficiently from hence because if any Sentence in the Bible be capable of a double Sense they express the one in the Text and the other in the Margin and where they do but in the least vary from the Original they either discover it by the Italick Character or give you notice of it in the Margin than which there can be nothing more honest And let any Papist of you all shew us wherein any thing in our Bibles is ill translated out of Malice or Design or expressed in words which the Original will not bear If we examine Translations by the Original then sure I am there is few Translations go further from it than the Vulgar Latin or the Rhemist Testament as were an easie matter to prove if I intended more than a Letter You are much taken with their Mortifications and Penances which you say we have not in our Church But it 's a sign Madam you did not rightly understand our Religion We are so far from condemning Mortification and Severity of Life that we do commend it provided it be in order to subdue the body of Sin and to raise our selves to a greater pitch of Vertue provided these Severities be separated from all opinion of Merit and from an opinion of their being satisfactory and expiatory and used only as helps to work in us a perfect Detestation of Sin And I will assure you there are more in the Church of England that use Severities in this humble holy way than you are aware of We indeed do not ordinarily inflict them on all persons because we know not there Constitution nor what their nature will bear nor have we any command for it in the Word of God but these things we leave to every Man's Discretion urging that where Sins require stronger Remedies there Men ought to make use of them and if their Corruptions will not be gone by Reasonings and Arguments that there they must inflict Mulcts and Penalties on themselves to drive the Unclean Spirit out Though I must say still that Religious Severities and Austerities are not certain signs of a true Religion for Heathens do use them as much as Christians nay more than Christians witness the Brahmanes in the Indies and the Religious Pagans dispersed through all the Eastern parts and if you conclude that therefore the Church of Rome must be in the right because they inflict great Pennances and Severities and make daily use of them I am afraid you only forbear turning Turk or Heathen because you never saw their far greater Severities in Religion than the Church of Rome can boast of But still the Protestant Church hath not the real Body and Blood of Christ in the Holy Sacrament which the Church of Rome hath And are you sure the Church of Rome hath it I am perswaded you did never taste it nor see it nor feel it nor smell it and how do you know it What because the Priests of that Church do tell you so No say you it is because Christ saith in express terms this is my Body And here I confess I stand amazed that Men with Learning and Reason about them can sink into an opinion so contradictory that if all the consequences of it be considered there is nothing in nature can be more absurd or irrational and the Church of Rome had need oblige Men to deny both their Reason and Senses to believe a Transubstantiation Here indeed a Faith is necessary strong enough to remove Mountains and though never any Miracles were wrought but were wrought on purpose to convince our Senses yet here we must believe one which neither Sense nor Reason can discover When Christ gave the Sacrament to his Disciples saith the Apostle 1 Corinth 11. 24. He brake the Bread and said Take eat this is my Body which is broken for you It is a wonderful thing that the word is in the first Sentence this is my Body should have a literal Sense and in the very next Sentence pronounced with the same breath cannot admit of a literal Sense for the word is in the second Sentence must necessarily stand for shall be because Christ's Body when he gave the Bread was not yet broken If it will not admit of a literal Sense in the very next Sentence because of the Absurdity that would follow that Christ was crucified before he was crucified why should we understand it in the first Sentence literally when the Absurdity is far greater Nay that the word is should not be capable of being understood literally in the second essential part of the Sacrament This Cup is the New Testament that here I say it should import and can import nothing else but signifies or is a sign of the New Testament and yet must not be understood so in the first part of the Sacrament is a thing we cannot comprehend And when the Apostle speaking of Lord's Supper or Eucharist 1 Cor. 10. 16. The Cup of Blessing which we bless is it not the Communion of the Blood of Christ and the Bread which we break is it not the Communion of the Body of Christ Let the rigidest Papist that hath not quite banished his Reason tell me how he will make Sense of the word is here except he understand it figuratively most certainly it cannot be understood literally for the Cup is not that Communion but is a sign of it One would admire how Men can be so obstinate in a thing as clear as the Sun and you might as well conclude that Christ is a Door made of Boards and Nails because the Scripture saith he is a Door and that he is a real Vine with green Leaves and Grapes about him because the Scripture saith he is a Vine But suppose the word is in these words This is my Body must be understood literally how doth this make for Transubstantiation Are the words is and is transubstantiated all one A thing may be said to be a thousand ways and yet without Transubstantiation so that if by the word is you understand Transubstantiation you your selves must go from the literal sense and assume a sense which is not expressed in that saying All the Jews are so well versed in the sense of Sacramental Expressions that by the word is they understand nothing but signifies or represents and therefore it 's a horrid shame that Christians meerly for fear of being laughed at for departing from an absurd opinion and losing the credit of a pretended Infallibility should make themselves ignorant in that