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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
B00623	The peoples plea for the exercise of prophesie. Against Mr. Iohn Yates his monopolie. / By Iohn Robinson.	Robinson, John, 1575?-1625.; Yates, John, d. ca. 1660.; Brewster, William, 1566 or 7-1644, printer, attributed name.	1618 (1618)	STC 21115A; ESTC S94919	38,827	88

a a strange tongue was extraordinary as likewise the revelation and interpretation I. Rob. ANSVV. NOT to meddle with his description of a Psalme Doctrine c. further then concernes our present occasion The first a Psalme was not so undoubtedly as hee maketh it some sudden to wit extraordinary motion of the spirit c. The scriptures rather insinuate the contrary and that these Psalmes and spirituall songes were also besides the Psalmes of Dauid and those then made by extraordinary motion which I will not deny euen ordinary and conceaued by ordinary men and motions Ephe. 5.18.19 Col. 3.16 Iam. 5.13 The scriptures are to be extended as largely and to as common use as may be neither is any thing in thē to be accounted extraordinary saue that which cannot possibly be ordinary which these might bee For the findeng out of sweet mater they had admirable divine books to read even the wonderfull divine scriptures For musicke as without doubt many in that most rich and delicate City were expert in it so what reason he hath to require for the Church singing then in use such study and art I see not except it be because he dwels too neere a cathedral Church Hee may see for the plainenesse of singing used in former times and before the spouse of Christ the Church in all her ordinances was by Antichrist stripped of her homely but comely attire and tricked up with his whorish ornaments that which Austin hath of this matter Confess l. 10. c. 13. For the second which is doctrine he but thinks there were no Doctors in Corinth But he may well change his thoughts if he both consider how that Church abounded in the body of it even to excesse in all knowledge utterance the Doctors two speciall faculties as also how this Apostle in this Epistle c 12. v. 28. affirmeth expresly that God had set in the Church amongst other officers Doctors or Teachers Besides that it is enough for my purpose if there were any in Corinth though not officer able by ordinary gift to deliliver doctrine which considering the fore-signified state of that Church both in respect of Pauls ministery amongst them and testimony of them being in that Citty which was the chiefe of all Greece for governement Greece also being the fountaine of learning and eloquence can not I think be reasonably denyed To yeeld you without further dispute that Revelation Interpretation were viz. only the immediate work of the spirit were in us more courtesy then wisdom For Interprecation I see not but that either he himselfe who spake the tongue by an extraordinary gift or any other man that understood it having ordinary ability to interpret the matter deliuered both lawfully might in conscience ought so to doe except he would quench the spirit both in respect of the extraordinary gift of the tongue ordinary gift of interpretation but that the Pastor or Teacher might not doe this by his ordinary gift which is yet a fort strong enough to keep us from yeelding were strange to imagine Besides let it be noted how the Apostle v. 13. exhorts to pray for the gift of Interpretation Now how a man might pray for an extraordinary and miraculous gift which hee wholy wanted without an extraordinary motion or promise and meerely upon the Apostles exhortation generall I see not but would learn of him that could teach me M. Yates ARG. 8. FROM present Revelation v. 30. In the verse going before is laid down in what order they shall prophesie even as it was before for strange tongues yet here is a further injunction and that is of silence if any thing of more weight shal be revealed unto another why should the other keep silence if it were known before that this man should speake after him if it were ordinary prophesying and such as our pains and study brought us unto then were it fit that we should haue our liberty to goe on and not be interrupted by an other but the Apostle upon the Revelation to another even sitting by enioyns silence to the present speaker which if his Revelation had been studied before could not bee any motiue or perswasion why hee should yeeld to the other that is now upon the sudden to take his place this were for one Prophet to disgrace another but the cleare sence is to any man that will not wrangle that because it pleaseth the spirit to inspire one sitting by with some more excellent matter either in regard of the same subiect or some other the Apostle enioyns silence I. Rob. ANSVV. TO his question why the former speaker should keep silence if it were knowne before that a 2d. should speak after him it is easily answered that euen therefore he was to keep silence that is to take vp himselfe in due time as being to think in modesty that the conduits of the spirit of God did not run into his vessell alone but that others also might receaue of the fulnes of the same spirit to speake something further to the edification of the Church especially sitting down in som appoynted place which it should seeme vers 30. and Act. 13.14 he that purposed to prophesie vsed to take and which order I thinke the Iewes yet obserue in their Synagogues And where he ads that if it were ordinary prophesie and such as our study brought vs vnto then were it fit we should haue our liberty to go on and not to be interrupted by another which he also accounts a disgracing of the former I would know of him whether it vvere not as fit and much more that the extraordinary Prophets immediatly inspired by the Holy Ghost and who could not erre should haue their liberty to go on uninterrupted Is not this vvithout all compasse of reason that the extraordinary Prophet immediatly inspired should not haue as much liberty to goe on without being interrupted as the ordinary vvho might vvorthily deserue to be interrupted for speaking untruly or impertinently although I do not thinke that the Apostle requires any interrupting of the former by the later vvhich were rude if not vvorse but onely a convenient cession or place-giving to a second by the first speaker as hath been said Now the Exception of disgrace to the former by the latters speaking is well to be minded that it may appeare how evill customes do infect the mindes of godly men so as they think it a disgrace that one should giue place to another to speake after him further or otherwise then he hath done But it vvas not so from the beginning but since they vvho under Christ should bee servants of the Church haue been her masters and haue exercised this magisteriall teaching now in use vvhere ordinarily one alone in a Church divers others in divers places better able then he sitting at his feet continually to learne must be heard all his life long thinking it a disgrace to haue another speake any thing further then he hath done vvhich vvas the

very disease in the Church of Corinth wherein he that spake first vvould take up all the time himselfe vvhereas he should in modesty haue conceived that a second or third especially seeming provided to speake by seating themselues in the same place vvith him might haue something revealed further or othervvise then hee had VVhich Revelation the Apostle doth not oppose to fore-going study as M. Yates thinketh but unto emulation and study of contradiction teaching that the spirit alone must be heard in the Church speaking by whose mouth soever And that there is in the Church an ordinary spirit of revelation besides comfortable experience these places amongst many other do clearly proue Math. 11.28 16.17 Eph. 1.17 Phil. 3.17 Mr. Yates ARG. 9. FRom vocation v. 29 32.37 these spiritual men are called Prophets and to imagine a Prophet without a calling is that which the Scripture will not endure therefore all these Prophets either had immediate calling from God or mediate from men or else they tooke it up themselues the two first we grant lawfull callings but this intollerable Numb 11.28 The servant of Moses sayes Forbid Eldad and Medad to prophesie his reason was because he thought they had no calling which had been true if they had taken it up without immediate inspiration But Moses knowing that it was from God wished that the like gift might be upon all Gods people so that those were true Prophets for the instant by an immediate call from God and the text sayes They added no further shewing that as the gift ceased so did they I. Rob. ANSWER IT is true that Spirituall men are called Prophets or rather Prophets Spirituall men what is it then that makes a spirituall man but a gift of the spirit and what a prophet ordinary or extraordinary but the gift of prophesie ordinary or extraordinary vvhereupon it followeth undeniably that so many vvith us or elsevvhere as haue the ordinary gift or ability to prophesie are prophets though out of office In this Argument he hath made a snare vvherewith himselfe is taken unavoydably Secondly vve affirme that our prophets haue a calling which I haue declared formerly not to make them prophets by condition or estate for that they are by their gift but for the use or exercise of the same gift before bestowed uppon them by the Lord through their labour and industry Of Eldads and Medads prophesying we shall speake hereafter onely note vve in the meane vvhile how M. Yates and rightly apportioneth their prophesying to their gift as wee doe also ours according to that of the Apostle Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us whether prophesie let us prophesie according to the proportion of faith or a ministery let us wayt on the ministery Rom. 12.6.7 They then that haue a gift must prophesie according to their proportion M. Yates ARG. 10. FRom distinction v. 37. the Apostle from the whole Church turnes himselfe to their Prophets and spirituall men shewing plainly that these had some particular place aboue the rest and he giues them speciall charge to obserue the things he writes to the Church therefore those were in some calling aboue others and to imagine the contrary is to run wide of the current of the whole Scripture to set men in publike place without calling is the same with confusion and disorder I. Rob. ANSVV. THIS Argument is founded upon the groundlesse presumption with the former viz. that there is in the Church no lawful calling for men able to prophesy but by officing them And for Pauls turning his speach to the Prophets v. 37. it shewes indeed that they were aboue the rest after a sort and so they are with us rightly preferred before others which want that endowment of the spirit by which they are enabled to speake to the edification of the Church The Confirmation of the Scriptures and reasons brought in my book to proue publick prophesying out of office by an ordinary gift AND before wee come to examine M. Yates his Answers to the Scriptures by me produced I desire the Reader to obserue with mee these two things First that I do not affirme in my book that all the there alleadged Scriptures are meant of ordinary prophesy but that the same is proved by them Neither will he I presume deny but that many things are sufficiently proved from a scripture by necessary consequence and iust proportion besides the particular properly intended in it 2. That M. Yates so puts the question as that it is hard to say whether he do mee or himselfe the more iniury namely whether the places prove an ordinary gift of prophesy out of office For as I do not say that they proue the gift but the use and exercise of the gift bestowed by God whether ordinary or extraordinary so neither would he haue denied had he not leaped before hee had lookt but that others besides ministers haue an ordinary gift of prophesie Where the Apostle requires of him that desires the office of a Bishop that he be apt to teach 1. Tim. 3.1.2 and able to exhort with sound doctrine Tit. 1.9 doth he not therein most evidently teach that the gift and ability to teach preach and prophesy not onely may but must both be and appeare to be in the person to be called to the office of ministery He that is not a prophet or hath not the gift of prophesying or preaching for by his gift he is a Prophet by the use of it he occupies the place of a Prophet before he be appointed a Pastor is an Idol sheepheard set up in the temple of God neither doth the office either giue of so much indeed as encrease the gift but onely giues solemne commission charge to use it The first Scripture by mee brought is Numb 11.29 where Moses the man of God wisheth that the whole people of the Lord were Prophets the Lord putting his spirit upon them This place saith M. Yates in his Ans speaks of the powring out of the Spirit in an extraordinary manner as may apear by the occasion of the speech v. 24. c. Where also in a tedious manner as his manner is hee proveth the gift of prophesying given to the 70. Elders to haue been extraordinary which as I deny not so neither needed he to haue proved But this I affirm that hence is proved the lawfulnesse of ordinary prophesying out of office by men enabled thereunto And first as Moyses wisheth that all the Lords people were Prophets the Lord giving his spirit unto them so the minister may and ought to wish that the Lord would so blesse the ordinary endeavours of his people now by his spirit as that they all might bee Prophets that is able for gifts to speak to edification The minister which desireth not this envieth for his own and the Clergies sake which Moses would not that Ioshua should do for his Secondly Moses makes it all one to be a Prophet

wherof himself is in his first argument to wit that his cōmission Apostolick was actually conferred upon him ioyntly with the rest Iohn 20.22.23 1. Now if the Commission Apostolike were but then given they were but then and not before actually Apostles except he will say they were Apostles before they had commission that is calling frō Christ so to bee I would now see how hee can salue the wound which he hath giuen himselfe 2. After that the Lord Iesus had Mat. 11.11 preferred Iohn Baptist aboue all the Prophets which were before him he yet ads in the same place that the least in the Kingdom of heauen is greater then hee The least i. the least Minister In the kingdom of heauen i. in the Church of the new testament properly called which began not till after the death of Christ who liued and dyed a member of the Iewish Church The Apostles then being officers of the Church of the new testament and Kingdome of heauen and not of the old or Iewish Church it cannot bee that they were Apostles in act before Christs death except an adiunct can be before the subiect and an officer before the corporation in and of which he is an officer 3. Considering the ignorance of these disciples at that time in the main misteries of Christ of the nature of his kingdom his death and resurrection Math 20.21 Luke 24.20.21 c. Iohn 20.9 Mark 16.14 as also how vtterly vnfurnished they were of gifts befitting Apostolicall teaching for which as being an extraordinary dispensation that in the highest degree extraordinary and infallible reuelation and direction of the spirit was requisite wherewith they were but first as it seemeth sprinckled Iohn 20.22 and afterwards more plentifully filled at the day of Pentecost they were as fit for an Apostleship as Dauid was for Sauls armour which he could not weild nor go with 4. Besides if they had the office of Apostleship committed to them Math. 10. how was it that they continued not their ministration in that office but returneing after a few dayes to their master Christ continued with him as his disciples till his death Christ Iesus did not keepe a company of non-residents about him for his Chaplins as M. Yates insinuates against him Lastly we are expresly taught Eph. 4.8 11. When Christ ascended on high hee gaue gifts unto men Apostles Prophets c. The Apostles then were first given actually at the Lords ascension and vvere before onely designed to become Apostles or Apostles elect but not ordained nor possessed of any office and therefore preached and that vvith warrant from Christ without office The next Scripture is Luk. 8.39 by M. Yates thus opened Christ having delivered the man possessed bids him go and shew what great things God had done for him and it is sayd he went and preached that is if it be to their purpose by ordinary pains and study he preached the Gospel And with pitty upon us poore soules that cannot distinguish the publishing of a miracle and the gift hee should say the worke if hee distinguished as he ought of preaching he addeth that if Christ had minded to haue made him a publike preacher hee would first haue taken him with him and instructed him and then haue sent him abroad First let it be obserued that the word used by Mark for his preaching 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is the same word which is commonly used for the most solemne preaching that is by the Apostles and Evangelists Secondly Christ bids him Mark 5.19 Goe home and declare how great things the Lord had done for him and had had compassion on him and v. 20. he is said to haue published in Decapolis Luke hath it throughout the whole Citty how great things Iesus had done for him VVhich he doing what else did hee but preach publish and declare the great loue and mercy of God in and by Iesus Christ towards miserable sinners for the curing of their bodily and spiritual maladies Thirdly where he makes the publishing of this miracle and the preaching of the Gospell divers things and pitties us poore soules that we cannot distinguish between them as Christ bad the women of Ierusalem not to weep for him but for themselues so surely had he need to pitty not us herein but himselfe in his so great mistaking Are not the miracles of Christ storied in the Scriptures a maine part of the Gospell and the publishing of them a part of the preaching of the Gospell And when M. Yates opens and publishes a miracle of Christs as this man did doth he not as well and as truely preach the Gospell as at any other time Let the wise iudge who is to be pittied To shut up this poynt it is sayd Ioh. 20.30 that Iesus did many other signes c. and v. 31. But these are written that yee might beleeue that Iesus is the Christ the Sonne of God and that beleeving yee might haue life through his name The publishing then of the signes and miracles which Christ did is the preaching of faith in his name to salvation which this man therefore did especially amongst them which were not ignorant of the Law of Moses and promise of the Messiah to come which by his glorious miracles done by his own power and in his owne name he both declared and proved himselfe to be Ioh. 5.36 10.37.38 And where he ads that Christ gaue this man commission to doe that which he did but he admires who gaue ours any such authority I answer even the same Christ as then immediatly so now mediatly by those unto whom he hath given authority under himselfe for the ordering of the gifts of his spirit in his Church And sufficient it is for the question between him and me if it appeare as in this person that Christ hath given commission to men out of office by an ordinary gift to publish and preach in publick the the Gospel of salvation I doe quote next in my booke Luk. 10.1 9. which for that W.E. omitteth and leaues out M. Yates thanketh God but in truth hee hath more cause to thanke him for sparing him in a place which so pregnantly proveth the preaching of the kingdom of God by men out of office except hee can assigne some new found office and the same but of two or three dayes lasting as v. 17. to those 70 there sent VVe are in the next place to come unto Ioh. 4.28.29.39 which hee openeth and answereth with admiration as the former place withpitty and compassion on this manner O simplicity with contradiction to his own writing Simplicity that cannot see bttween preaching of the Gospell and carrying tydings of a man that told her to wit the woman of Samaria of al things that ever she did is not this sayth she the Christ But besides simplicity here is contradiction for sayes M. Robinson and that truely a woman is not suffered to exercise an ordinary gift of prophesie in the Church and shall