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A42468
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The churche[s] publick order argued and opened by a second confere[nce] betweene Silvanus and Himeneu[s] ... wherein the ordinances of the Church of Engla[nd for] Gods publick worship are proved to beagreeable to Gods sacred word / by L.G. [i.e. I.G.], a continuall friend and lover ofthe tr[uth].
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J. G.
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1643
(1643)
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Wing G33; ESTC R42041
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23,389
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47
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Corinth 11.23 But wee find it not in the Scripture what it should bee Yea as I sayd before we finde no direction for the Sacrament it selfe nor for any circumstance that concernes the Celebration of it neither for time place nor manner And shall wee say therefore that Moses is more faithfull than Christ No sure for that I have proved to bee another thing before But it proves this rather that under the cleare light of the Gospell the truth and substance of things fore-spoken by the Patriarchs and Prophets are so evident and apparent that there needes no such particular directions and shadowes as the dimme and darke Ceremoniall Law required And that it is left unto the discretion of such as are in Authority rule and government to appoynt and regulate as may be most for the glory of God and best for the convenience of the place and people Hym What Rule then hath the Church of England for these Ordinances and all the rest wee have spoken of Silv. The Statute Law doth order particularly every thing as I have shewed you before of the Ministers Officers the time and the worship it selfe and of the name of the place so now I shall shew you that the Statutes appoynt the publike place it selfe and for the order and manner of the rest of the particulars and how all is agreeable with the word of God in the Statutes made in the second and third yeare of King Edward the sixth and the first Chapter the affection of this religious King is there recorded to be such that hee had an eye and respect to the most sincere and pure Christian Religion taught by the Scriptures as also to the usages of the Primitive Churâââ advising with his most learned and godly Ministââ obââving the prudent judgement of his beloved Vnclââ the âârd Protector the best assistance of his Privie and great Councell of Parliament with the ayd of the Holy Ghost and with one uniforme agreement is of them concluded set forth and delivered to his great comfort and satisfaction of minde a composer containing rules and orders for the regulating of the manner of Gods publick worship in a Booke intituled the Booke of the Common Prayer and administration of the Sacraments and other Rites and Ceremonies of the Church as in this so in other Acts the times and places are appoynted the Persons to officiate and administer in Praying praysing and reading and preaching Gods word the people to assemble on Sundayes and Holy-dayes upon penalty to bee inflicted by Officers Temporall or Ecclesiasticall and that none shall deprave that is speak ill of or condemne this Order 1 Elizabeth 2. Elizabeth 2.23 Iacob 4. And that the Congregation shall behave themselves quietly and with civill demeanor and orderly all the time of Gods publike worship Anno primo Marioe the third Chapter and also the rules and order for the particulars for Baptisme and the Lords Supper are contained in the Statutes that Children of beleeving Parents shall be baptized and that there shall be witnesses to testifie so much and also to promise a Christian endeavour for religious instruction and education the form of words that contained in the Commission given to the Apostles before mentioned the manner appoynted Dipping in or sprinkling with water And so also for the Supper of the Lord the Elements Bread and Wine to be provided by the Church-wardens at the charges of the Parishoners the time to be appoynted by the Minister and the people to have notice of it by his directions Anâ as the former so this to bee blessed and administred by the Pastor or Minister in the words of our Lords first Institution and the people to receive in a praying gesture both Ordinances being communicated with prayer and thanksgiuing for the Vestments of the Ministers and gesture oâ both Minister and People are ordered also Hymen But how can you prove to mee that those Acâ and Ordinances are agreeable and warrantable by the Word ãâã God Silv. Such Ordinances of men that are not against thâ Word of God I am warranted by the Word of God ãâã obey but the Traditions and Ordinances of the Churâ are no wayes opposite or contrary to GODS Worâ therefore GODS Word injoynes Christians obedieâ thereunto The generall Rules in Scripture of Traditions for ãâã der and Decency in the Churches were onely for ãâã things as concerne the publick worship of God which rules are not found exprest and determined in the Scripture therefore the Apostle 2 Thes â â speakes to the Church of Thessalonica in words of Dignity and Authority saying Now wee command you brethren in the Name of our Lord Iesus Christ that you withdraw your selves from every brother that walketh disorderly and not after the Traditions which hee received of us Observe the holy Apostles extraordinary expressions and likewise how hee ingages the Lord Iesus Christ in the cause that Order should be observed according to Traditions given which Traditions were not written Scriptures but things of like nature as the Apostle to the Corinthians speakes of 1 Cor. 14. And although of much variety in the Church yet hee thus would have all âhings regulated Let all things be done decently and in Order And the âder and decency is exprest throughout the Chapter Aââeaching verse 3.4 which is declared by speaking by Revelation by Knowledge or by Doctrine And that preaching and praying singing and giving thanks are to be in a knowne tongue to the edifying of the Church verse 12.15 17. That also the Prophets doe beake one by one that all may learne and all may be comâorted verse 31. And just so it was with the Church at Ieâusalem Acts 15.7 The Church being met together it is âyd Peter rose up and spake unto them as in the 8 9 10 â1 Verses And in the twelfth Verse it is sayd the multiâde kept silence and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul ând after they had held their peace Iames answered saying Men and Brethren hearken unto me v. 13. so that 4. Apostles âone meeting prophecyes but in order one after another âd to this the Apostle speakes fully to the Church of Coâh for God is not the Author of confusion or tumults or unquietnesse but of peace as in all Churches of the Saints 1 Cor. 13.33 So also in the next Chapter he gives generall rules to all Churches Let your women keep silence in the Churches for it is not permitted to them to speake And in another place directions are given for womens habits that their heads be covered 1 Cor. 11.6 So in the Chapter following he gives many rules about preparation before the sacrament as concerning our carriage in communicating where you come together saith he to eate tarry one for another So hee requires knowledge to discerne the Lords body So Temperance and modesty of behaviour that the Communion may be answerable to the thing Communicated in and thus concludes And the rest will I set in order when I
that beforâ our first conference Acts 14.23 And they ordained them Eâ in every Church that is Preachers as you there observed ãâã Yet not one nor all those places doe shew the forme they ãâã though they prove the thing they practised Silv. Neither doe the Scriptures lay downe the fââ of Marriage although it bee honoured beyond conâ by God Himselfe in Paradice Gen. 2.22 As also bâ Lords first miracle Iohn 2.1 11. And the author ãâã âebrewes layes it down as an Ordinance for ever Marriage ãâã honourable in all Hebr. 13.4 and yet in all the Scripâââes old or new we doe not finde a forme for the manner âor persons appoined to celebrate the matter but some âânes wee finde the Parents did performe it in the Patriââhs times and in the Iudges times the Magistrates and ãâã other places it is said they tooke unto them Wives as ãâã they married themselves for so it is said Gene. 6.3 âow because there is not a forme of words in Scripture âhe holy ordinance of Marriage waste and voyd No âinke none will be so voyd of Religion to say so but ãâã it not rather prove that it is left by the Authoritie Gods Word to the liberty of Christs Church to deâine assigne and order in every Countrey as I shall ãâã anon an Act of Parliament of this Church in anoââââ case Hym. But hath the Church of England appointed a forme ârdination as it hath done for Marriage ââl Yes such holy exhortations divine instructions âffectuall expressions as there cannot be better thought ãâ¦ã Hym. I pray let me heare your knowledge of it ãâã As the ignorance of Scriptures is the cause of all ãâã and faction so also the ignorance of those wholeâ Lawes and Ordinances which the Church hath proââââ in many particulars makes many have a worse opiââââ of the government of the Church then otherwise âould possibly have âânnot but admire the solemne grave and honouââorme of Matrimony the Scriptures for instruâââââppointed to be read the holy exhortations and adââons the union pronounced in the name of the Father the Son and the Holy Ghost the concluding the ordnance with pertinent blessings I say I cannot chose but morâ and more admire it because now a many of unadwâsed Ministers use unworthy and unwarrantable forme thereby couzening and cheating those they pretend tââ Marry for except the words are used in the manner appointed by the Law the Law knowes them not marrieâ but the Wife in the sence of the Law is accounted a whoâ and the Children Bastards and the next of kinne will ãâã cover all personall estate and inheritance And the reâson is cleare because the Law knowes nor allowes of aââ other forme for Marriage but that enacted Oh woeâ to such unwise Ministers that have done this wrong aâ injury to the Children unborne by seducing their ignorââââ Parents But to give you satisfaction in that you desire concerâing Ordination of Ministers the Church hath appointââ a very good rule and forme for it many pithy and apt prââers unto God for His blessiing many Scriptures to bee râââ agreeing to the Ordinance As Saint Pauls counsell to âmothy and the words and gesture the Apostles used whââ they ordained Stephen and the rest Acts 6. as also ãâã words of our Lord Iohn 10. And diverse questions are made to them that are to ãâã ordained such as these are you assured or doe you beleââ you are inwardly moved by the Holy Ghost to take upââ you this office and ministration to serve God for the pâmoting his glory and the edifying his people And he ââswers I beleeve so Also hee is askt doe you thinke you are truly called ââcording to the will of our Lord Iesus Christ doe ãâã unfainedly beleeve all the Canonicall Scriptures of ãâã âld and New Testament and will you apply your selfe to âudy read and preach the same they promise they will ãâã And further also to lay aside the studies of the World ãâã the flesh to endeavour by good life and holy examâe to edifie Christs flock These and many more are the âquestions and exhortations then doth the Minister ordainâng speake to the whole Congregation declaring to them âe Ordination and there being no cause shewed against ây the people hee proceeds in prayer and layes on his âd upon him thereby giving him power to preach and âficiate in all other administrations Hym. This forme is very good and seems to mee warranâe but what rule hath the Church of England for ordination âother Officers Sil. For such as have the place of ruling Elders comâonly called Church-wardens and for such as receive and âtribute to the necessity of the poore commonly called âerseers the Minister and Congregation doe choose âââm together by most voyces according to Act of Parâââment Hym. But how are the people or Congregation ordered Silvanus All Parishes or Congregations are âorporated and Ordayned by Act of Parliament âe law gives power to the Minister and Churchâficers to examine and see that obedience by yeelded to ãâã such things as concerne the time the place the manner ãâã matter of Gods worship in publick and accordingly âacquit them if innocent or to indite or present them âuiltie Anno 1. Edw. 6. Anno 1. Eliz. 2. Hym. I pray Sir resolve mee in my second question how a âe may be commanded for it seemes to me the Apostles doctâ teacheth otherwise Galath 4.10 11. Where he saith Yee âve dayes and moneths and times and yeares I am afraid of of you lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vaine Sil. The Apostle being rightly understood doth not write to the Galatians against a time or times to be appointed by authority for the publick worship of God but hee teacheth against the use of such Ceremonies that the cleare and open manifestation of the Truth and substance thereof made weake beggerly and uselesse and more principally hee directly preacheth against them as some thereby and in Obedience to sought life and justification against this the Apostle concludes peremptorily to the Romans Romans 3 28. in these words Wee conclude therefore that a man is justified by faith without the workes of the Law and hee accepts none to the Galatians but affirmeth that whosoever seeks justification by the Law he is fallen from Grace Gala. 5.4 And aggravates it by reduplications as most certaine and a thing never to be questioned the holy Ghost bearing witnesse with him and therefore speakes in a phrase never to be repealed for by the workes of the Law shall no flesh be justified Gal. 2 16. Hym. What rule have you then for the time and times of Gods publick worship Sil. The first day of the week and all other dayes and times are by Ordinance of the Church appointed this hath beene the judgement of former times amongst the Fathers as Hierome Austine and Tertullian Master Frith and Master Tindall amongst the Martyrs Master Calvin and many others in the book called the Harmony of confessions