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A10777 Certe[n] godly, learned, and comfortable conferences, betwene the two reuerende fathers, and holye martyrs of Christe, D. Nicolas Rydley late Bysshoppe of London, and M. Hughe Latymer sometyme Bysshoppe of Worcester, during the tyme of their emprysonmentes. Whereunto is added. A treatise agaynst the errour of transubstantiation, made by the sayd reuerende father D. Nicolas Rydley. M.D.LVI. Ridley, Nicholas, 1500?-1555.; Latimer, Hugh, 1485?-1555. aut; Ridley, Nicholas, 1500?-1555. Brief declaracion of the Lordes Supper. aut 1556 (1556) STC 21048; ESTC S115941 68,037 134

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spille_fw-fr or_o shed_v i_o do_v commend_v unto_o you_o a_o mystery_n or_o a_o sacrament_n which_o spiritual_o understand_v shall_v geve_v you_o life_n now_o if_o christ_n have_v no_o more_o natural_a and_o corporal_a body_n but_o that_o one_o which_o they_o then_o present_o both_o hard_a and_o see_v and_o none_o other_o natural_a blood_n but_o that_o which_o be_v in_o the_o same_o body_n and_o the_o which_o the_o soldier_n cruel_o do_v after_o shed_v upon_o the_o cross_n and_o neither_o this_o body_n nor_o this_o blood_n be_v by_o this_o declaration_n of_o s._n augustine_n either_o to_o be_v eat_v or_z drunken_a but_o the_o mystery_n thereof_o spiritual_o to_o be_v understand_v then_o i_o conclude_v if_o this_o sai_n and_o exposition_n of_o s._n augustine_n be_v trwe_v that_o the_o mystery_n which_o the_o disciple_n shall_v eat_v be_v not_o the_o natural_a body_n of_o christ_n but_o a_o misteri_fw-la of_o the_o same_o spiritual_o to_o be_v understand_v for_o as_o s._n augustine_n 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call_v because_o they_o do_v assure_v we_o of_o the_o consecration_n thereof_o whether_o it_o be_v do_v before_o these_o word_n be_v speak_v or_o no._n but_o as_o for_o this_o their_o doubt_n concern_v the_o sacrament_n of_o the_o body_n i_o let_v it_o pass_v let_v we_o now_o consider_v the_o word_n which_o pertain_v unto_o the_o cup_n this_o be_v first_o evident_a that_o as_o mathewe_n much_o agree_v with_o mark_n and_o likewise_o luke_n with_o paul_n do_v much_o agree_v herein_o in_o form_n of_o word_n so_o in_o the_o same_o the_z former_a of_o word_n in_o mathewe_n and_o mark_n be_v diverse_a from_o that_o which_o be_v in_o luke_n and_o paul_n the_o old_a author_n do_v most_o rehearse_v the_o form_n of_o word_n in_o matthew_n and_z mark_v because_o i_o ween_v they_o seem_v to_o they_o most_o clear_a but_o here_o i_o will_v know_v whether_o it_o be_v credible_a or_o no_o that_o luke_n and_o paul_n when_o they_o celebrate_v the_o lord_n supper_n which_o their_o congregation_n that_o 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receive_v of_o the_o lord_n he_z have_v give_v they_o and_z that_o which_o he_o have_v receive_v and_o give_v they_o before_o by_o word_n of_o mowthe_n now_o he_o reherse_v and_o write_v the_o same_o in_o his_o epistle_n be_v it_o credible_a that_o paul_n will_v never_o use_v this_o form_n of_o word_n upon_o the_o lord_n cup_n which_o as_o he_o saithe_v he_o receive_v of_o the_o lord_n that_z he_o have_v give_v they_o before_o and_o now_o reherse_v in_o his_o epistle_n i_o trust_v no_o man_n be_v so_o far_o from_o all_o reason_n butt_v he_o will_v grawnt_v i_o that_o this_o be_v not_o likely_a so_o to_o be_v now_o than_o if_o you_o grant_v i_o that_o paul_n do_v use_v the_o form_n of_o word_n which_o he_o write_v let_v we_o they_o rehearse_v and_o consider_v paul_n word_n which_o he_o saithe_v christ_n speak_v thus_o upon_o the_o cup_n this_o cup_n be_v the_o new_a testament_n in_o my_o blood_n this_o do_v as_o often_o as_o you_o shall_v drink_v it_o in_o the_o remembrance_n of_o i_o here_o i_o will_v know_v whether_o that_o christ_n word_n speak_v upon_o the_o cup_n be_v not_o as_o mighty_a in_o work_n and_z as_o effectual_a in_o signification_n to_o all_o entente_n construction_n and_o purpose_n as_o our_o parlyament_n man_n do_v speak_v as_o they_o be_v speak_v upon_o the_o bread_n if_o this_o be_v grawnt_v which_o thing_n i_o think_v no_o man_n can_v deny_v then_z further_o i_o reason_v thus_o but_o the_o word_n be_v in_o the_o word_n speak_v upon_o the_o lord_n bread_n do_v mighty_o signefye_v say_v they_o the_o change_n of_o the_o substance_n of_o that_o which_o go_v before_o it_o into_o the_o substance_n of_o that_o which_o follow_v after_o that_o be_v of_z the_o substance_n of_o bread_n into_o the_o substance_n of_o christ_n body_n when_o chryst_n say_v this_o be_v my_o body_n now_o they_o if_o christ_n word_n which_o be_v speak_v upon_o the_o cup_n which_o paul_n here_o reherse_v be_z of_o the_o same_o might_n and_o power_n both_z in_o work_v and_o 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that_o the_o word_n cup_n she_o in_o christ_n word_n do_v not_o signefye_v the_o cup_n itself_o but_o the_o wine_n or_o thing_n contain_v in_o the_o cup_n by_o a_o figure_n call_v metonymy_fw-la for_o that_o christ_n word_n mean_v and_o so_o must_v needs_o be_v take_v thou_o say_v very_o well_o but_o i_o pray_v the_o by_o the_o way_n here_o note_v two_o thing_n first_o that_o this_o word_n be_v have_v no_o such_o strength_n or_o signification_n in_o the_o lord_n word_n to_o make_v or_o to_o signify_v any_o transubstantiation_n note_n 2._o necessary_a note_n second_o that_o in_o the_o lord_n word_n whereby_o he_o institute_v the_o sacrament_n of_o his_o blood_n he_o use_v a_o figurative_a speech_n how_o vain_a then_o be_v it_o that_o some_o so_o earnest_o do_v say_v as_o it_o be_v a_o infallible_a rule_v that_o in_o doctrine_n and_z in_o thinstitution_n of_o the_o sacrament_n christ_n use_v no_o figure_n but_o all_o his_o word_n be_v to_o be_v strain_v to_o their_o proper_a signification_n when_o as_o here_o what_o soever_o thou_o saieste_n be_v in_o the_o cup_n yet_o neither_o that_n nor_o the_o cup_n itself_o be_v take_v every_o word_n in_o his_o proper_a signification_n the_o new_a testament_n but_o in_o understand_v that_o which_o be_v in_o the_o cup_n by_o the_o cup_n that_z be_v a_o figurative_a speech_n yea_o and_o also_o thou_o canst_v not_o verify_v or_o true_o say_v of_o that_o whether_o thou_o saiste_v it_o be_v wine_n or_z christ_n blood_n to_o be_v the_o new_a testament_n without_o a_o figure_n also_o thus_o in_o one_o sentence_n speak_v of_o christ_n in_o the_o institution_n of_o the_o sacrament_n of_o his_o blood_n the_o fygure_n must_v help_v we_o twice_o so_o untrue_a be_v it_o that_o some_o do_v write_v that_z christe_o use_v no_o figure_n in_o the_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n nor_o in_o the_o institution_n of_o his_o sacrament_n but_o some_o say_v if_o we_o shall_v thus_o admit_v figure_n in_o doctrine_n then_o shall_v all_o the_o article_n of_o our_o say_v by_o figure_n and_o allegory_n short_o be_v transform_v and_o unlouse_v i_o say_v it_o be_v like_a fault_n and_o even_o the_o same_o to_z deny_a the_o figure_n where_o the_o place_n so_o require_v to_o be_v understand_v as_o vainelye_o to_o make_v it_o a_o figurative_a speech_n which_o be_v to_o be_v understand_v in_o his_o proper_a signification_n the_o rule_n whereby_o the_o speech_n be_v know_v when_o it_o be_v figurative_a and_o whereby_o it_o be_v none_o 16._o augu._n de_fw-fr doc_fw-fr chri._n l._n 3._o cap._n 16._o s_o austin_n in_o his_o book_n call_v de_fw-la doctrina_fw-la christiana_n geve_v diverse_a learned_a lesson_n very_a necessari_fw-la to_o be_v know_v of_o
the_o student_fw-la in_o god_n word_n of_o the_o which_o one_n i_o will_v rehearse_v which_o be_v this_o if_o say_v he_o the_o scripture_n do_v seam_n to_o command_v a_o thing_n which_o be_v wicked_a or_o ungodly_a or_o to_o forbid_v a_o thing_n that_o charity_n do_v require_v then_o know_v thou_o say_v he_o that_o the_o speech_n be_v figurative_a and_o for_o example_n he_o bring_v the_o sai_n of_o christ_n in_o the_o 6_o chapter_n of_o saint_n ihon._n except_o you_o eat_v the_o flesh_n of_o the_o son_n of_o man_n and_o drink_v his_o blood_n you_o can_v not_o have_v life_n in_o you_o â–ª_o it_o seam_v to_o command_v a_o wicked_a or_o a_o ungodlye_a thing_n wherefore_o it_o be_v a_o figurative_a speech_n commaundinge_a to_o have_v communion_n and_o fellowship_n with_o christ_n passion_n and_z devoutelye_a and_o wholesomelie_o to_o lay_v up_o in_o memory_n that_o his_o flesh_n be_v crucify_v and_o wound_v for_o us._n and_o here_o i_o can_v not_o but_o marvel_n at_o some_o man_n suerelye_o of_o much_o excellent_a finesse_n of_o wit_n objection_n vuinch_n in_o his_o ansvuer_n to_o the_o 16._o and_o 226._o objection_n and_z of_o great_a eloquence_n that_o be_v not_o ashamed_a to_o write_v and_o say_v that_o this_o aforesaid_a saiing_n of_o christ_n be_v after_o saint_n austen_n a_o figurative_a speech_n in_o deed_n but_o not_o unto_o the_o learned_a but_z unto_o the_o unlearned_a here_o let_v any_o man_n that_o indifferent_o understand_v the_o latin_a tongue_n read_v the_o place_n in_o s_n austen_n and_o if_o he_o per_fw-la ceive_v not_o clearlye_v s_n austin_n word_n and_o mind_n to_o be_v contrary_a let_v i_o abide_v thereof_o the_o rebuke_n this_o lesson_n of_o s_o austen_n i_o have_v therefore_o the_o rather_o set_v forth_o because_o as_o it_o teach_v we_o to_o understande_v that_o place_n in_o john_n figurativelye_o even_o so_o suerlye_v the_o same_o lesson_n with_o the_o example_n of_o s_n austin_n exposition_n thereof_o teach_v we_o not_o only_o by_o 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of_o s._n john_n and_o therefore_o must_v even_o by_o the_o same_o reason_n be_v likewise_o understand_v and_o expound_v figurativelye_o and_o spiritual_o as_o s_o austin_n do_v the_o other_o whereunto_o that_o exposition_n of_o s_o austen_n may_v seam_n to_o be_v the_o more_o meet_a for_o that_o christ_n in_o his_o supper_n to_o the_o commandment_n of_o eatinge_v and_o drink_v of_o his_o body_n and_o blood_n add_v do_v this_o in_o remembrance_n of_o i_o which_o word_n suerlye_o be_v the_o key_n that_o open_v and_o revel_v this_o spiritual_a and_o godly_a exposition_n unto_o s_n austen_n but_o i_o have_v tarry_v long_o in_o set_v four_o the_o form_n of_o christ_n word_n upon_o the_o lord_n cup_n write_v by_o paul_n and_o luke_n then_o i_o intend_v to_o do_v and_o yet_o in_o speak_v of_o the_o form_n of_o christ_n word_n speak_v upon_o his_o cup_n it_o come_v now_o unto_o my_o remembrance_n the_o form_n of_o word_n use_v in_o the_o lattin_a mass_n upon_o the_o lord_n cup_n whereof_o i_o do_v not_o a_o little_a marvel_n what_o shall_v be_v the_o cause_n see_v the_o latin_a mass_n agree_v with_o the_o evangelist_n and_o paul_n in_o the_o form_n of_o word_n say_v upon_o the_o bread_n mass_n vuorde_n of_o the_o latin_a mass_n why_o in_o the_o word_n saiede_n upon_o the_o lord_n cup_n it_z differ_v from_o they_o all_o yea_o and_o add_v unto_o the_o word_n of_o christ_n speak_v upon_o the_o cup_n these_o word_n misterium_fw-la fidei_fw-la that_o be_v the_z mystery_n of_o faith_n which_o be_v not_o red_a to_o be_v attribute_v unto_o the_o sacrament_n of_o christ_n blood_n neither_o in_o thevangeliste_n nor_o in_o paul_n nor_o so_o far_o as_o i_o do_v know_v in_o any_o other_o place_n of_o holy_a scripture_n yea_o and_o if_o it_o may_v have_v some_o good_a exposition_n yet_o why_o it_o shall_v not_o be_v aswell_o add_v unto_o the_o word_n of_o christ_n â–ª_o upon_o his_o bread_n as_o upon_o his_o cup_n surly_a i_o do_v not_o see_v the_o mystery_n and_o because_o i_o see_v in_o the_o use_n of_o the_o lattin_a mass_n the_o sacrament_n of_o the_o blood_n abuse_v when_o it_o be_v deny_v to_o the_o lie_v man_n mass_n the_o abuse_n of_o the_o sacrament_n in_o he_o latin_a mass_n clean_o contrary_n to_o god_n most_o certain_a word_n for_o why_o i_o beseech_v the_o shall_v the_o sacrament_n of_o christ_n blood_n be_v deny_v unto_o the_o lay_n christian_n more_o then_o to_o the_o priest_n do_v not_o christ_n shed_v his_o blood_n aswell_o for_o the_o lie_v godly_a man_n as_z for_o the_o godly_a press_v if_o thou_o will_v say_v yea_o that_o he_o do_v so_o but_z yet_o the_o sacrament_n of_o the_o blood_n be_v not_o to_o be_v receyve_v with_o out_o the_o offer_v up_o and_o sacrifice_a thereof_o unto_o god_n the_o father_n both_z for_o the_o quick_a and_z for_o the_o dead_a and_z no_o man_n may_v make_v oblatyon_n of_o christ_n blood_n unto_o god_n but_o a_o priest_n and_o therefore_o the_o priest_n and_o that_o but_o in_o his_o mass_n only_o may_v receive_v the_o sacrament_n of_o the_o blood_n and_o call_v you_o this_o master_n mysterium_fw-la fidei_fw-la alas_o alas_o i_o fear_v i_o this_o be_v before_o god_n mysterium_fw-la iniquitatis_fw-la the_o mystery_n off_o iniquitee_n such_o as_o saint_n paul_n speak_v of_o in_o his_o epistle_n to_o the_o thessalonians_n 67._o 2._o thess._n 2_o psal._n 67._o the_o lord_n be_v merciful_a unto_o we_o and_o bless_v we_o lighten_v his_o cowntenaunce_n upon_o we_o and_o be_v merciful_a unto_o us._n that_o we_o may_v know_v thy_o way_n upon_o earth_n and_z among_o all_o people_n thy_o salvation_n this_o kind_n of_o oblation_n stand_v upon_o transubstantyation_n his_o german_a coosyn_n and_o do_v grow_v both_o upon_o one_o ground_n the_o lord_n weed_n it_o out_o of_o his_o vyneyard_n short_o if_o it_o be_v his_o bless_a will_n and_o pleasure_n that_o bitter_a root_n to_o speak_v of_o this_o oblation_n how_o much_o it_o be_v injurious_a unto_o christ_n passion_n christespassion_n the_o mass_n sacrifice_n be_v iniuriouse_a to_o christespassion_n how_o it_o can_v not_o but_o with_o high_a blasphemy_n and_z heinous_a arrogancy_n and_z intolerable_a pride_n be_v claim_v of_o any_o man_n other_z then_o of_o christ_n himself_o how_o much_o and_z how_o plain_o it_o repugn_v unto_o the_o manifest_a word_n the_z true_a sense_n and_o meaning_n of_o holy_a scripture_n in_o many_o place_n especial_o in_o thepistle_n to_o the_o hebrews_n 9.10_o hebr._n 9.10_o the_o matter_n be_v so_o long_o and_o other_o have_v write_v in_o it_o at_o large_a that_z my_o mind_n be_v now_o not_o to_o entreat_v thereof_o any_o further_a for_o only_o in_o this_o my_o scribble_n i_o intend_v to_o search_v out_o and_o set_v forth_o by_o the_o scripture_n according_a to_o god_n gracious_a gift_n of_o my_o poor_a knowledge_n whether_o the_o true_a sense_n and_o meaning_n of_o christ_n word_n in_o the_o institution_n of_o his_o holy_a supper_n do_v require_v any_o transubstantiation_n as_o they_o call_v it_o or_o that_o the_o very_a substance_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n do_v remain_v still_o in_o the_o lord_n supper_n and_o be_v the_o material_a substance_n of_o the_o holy_a sacrament_n of_o christ_n our_o savioure_n bliss_v body_n and_o blood_n yet_o there_o remain_v one_o vain_a quiddite_n of_o duns_n in_o this_o matter_n the_o which_o because_o some_o that_o write_v now_o do_v seem_v to_o like_v it_o so_o well_o objection_n vuinch_n in_o the_o aunsvuere_a to_o the_o 15_o objection_n that_z they_o have_v stryp_v he_o out_o of_o dunce_n dusty_a and_o dark_a term_n and_o prick_v he_o and_o paint_v he_o in_o fresh_a colores_fw-la of_o a_o eloquent_a stile_n may_v therefore_o deceive_v the_o more_o except_o the_o error_n be_v wary_o escheve_v dunse_n say_v in_o these_o word_n of_o christ_n this_o be_v my_o body_n this_o