much strength in them He that reads the Scriptures with a spiritually enlightened mind cannot but confess that never meer man spake like the Holy Writers and that flesh and blood revealed not those things to them which they declare but God only 2. Upon what account was this truth taken up by the first Christians for the space of three hundred years after Christ they could not take it up upon the Churches account and credit for your Authors hold that its only in the power of Oecumenical Sinods to define which are the Scriptures and for this time there was no such a Sinod called The first Sinod that I finde delivering the Canon of Scripture was that of Laodicea held about the year 364. Afterwards the third Council of Carthage both Provincial Sinods only though afterwards confirmed in a General Council 3. Upon what account or credit doth your Church take up this truth that the Scriptures are the Word of God Sure you are so great an Enemy to Spiritists that you will not think of extraordinary Revelations or Enthusiasms I hardly think that ever the Holy Ghost fell upon your Popes or Councils in fiery Tongues or that they had either visions or dreams nor do I think that you will say that your Church propoundeth the Canon of Scripture meerly upon the supposal of former practise that former Churches did allow and believe the Scriptures now received are Canonical for this is only a testimony concerning matter of fact in which 't is confessed the Pope may erre through wrong informations There may be spurious Canons foisted into former Councils like Pope Zozimus Canon of the Nicene Council whereby he maintained his Supremacy I therefore suppose that your judgment must be that your Church assisted by the Spirit doth from internal notes of Scripture conclude the divine authority thereof Hence 't is that Councils proceed by argument and reason and there is an acknowledgment of the truth before they proceed to definition or Decree Now if the Church take up Scripture upon this account that she through the assistance of Gods Spirit discerns the notes and marks of Gods Word why may not a Christian by the same assistance discover these notes and so believe that the Scriptures are Gods Word upon the same account that the Church takes up this beliefe though withal he doth and ought to reverence and highly account of the judgment of the Church or Pastors of it as that which hath a Priority and is an occasion of Christians private judgment and a confirmation of it yet as I hinted before it must not be denied that Christians have a divine light in themselves being taught of God Joh. 6.45 which is for the discovery of divine objects as natural light or reason is for the discovery of natural This Bellarmine confesseth saying Bellar. de lumine fid Conc. 1. Quemadmodum omnes homines c. As all men are indued with a certain natural light whereby they understand the first principles to be true without labour without arguments nor is there any that demands reasons and arguments when those principles are propounded So also all Christians enlightened by God with a certain divine and supernatural light do acknowledg the first principles of our Faith though difficult and exceeding reason to be most true Origen in his Book 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 where he proves the Divinity of Scriptures by divers arguments Origen lib. 4. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 cap. 1. as Protestants do hath a notable speech to this purpose Si quis cum omni judicio c. If any one doth judiciously and with that reverence that is meet consider of the Sacred Writ while he reads and diligently searcheth into it most certainly having his minde and senses affected with some divine inspiration he acknowledgeth that the word he reads is not the word of men but of God and of himselfe perceives ex semetipso sentiet that these books are written not by humane art or mortal eloquence but by the hand of God Thus I suppose it was with the first Christians of whom you cannot say that they believed the books of Scripture to be the Word of God meerly because the Apostles and others held them they were so but upon other account this overthrows your Position What I have said of the Scriptures may be said of other points of Faith that they are not taken up meerly or mainly upon the Churches credit and account but rather because God hath revealed them in his Word wherein they are therefore written that we might have a sure argument for our Faith But I come to your next inference 2 Consequence or Conclusion Whatsoever comes upon any other score is to be reputed Apocriphal and no way appertaining to the obligation of faith Magna Diana Romanorum Great is your Roman Goddess but its only with the Shrine-makers of Rome your conclusion is very high but notoriously false For 1. It s not the Churches definition that makes any book Apocriphal but the want of divine inspiration in those who wrote them so that whatsoever is not written by the Prophets or Apostles the Subjects of divine inspiration that is certainly Apocriphal whether the Church receive them or not Hence many of your learned men reject those books as Apocriphal which the Council of Trent declared to be Canonical the Apostle saith All Scripture is by divine inspiration 2 Tim. 3.16 the Scriptures of the Old Testament are called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 2 Pet. 1.19 read Luke 24.27 2. It was six hundred years after Christ before any General Council delivers the Canon of Scripture now will you say that till that time the books of Scripture were Apocriphal and no way appertaining to the obligation of Faith 3. The Spirit of God may work Faith in the Soule while it is reverently reading the Word of God without the testimony of the Church the person for the present being ignorant what the Church teacheth of particular points this is clear by the place of Origen even now mentioned Lyranus speaks of a teaching of the Spirit Lyran. in 1 Joh. 2.27 Vbi deficit humana Doctrina 4. When the Thessalonians received the Apostles Doctrine not as the word of men but as the Word of God Greg. Analus fid lib. 1. c. 15. was this Doctrine no way appertaining to the obligation of Faith Your Gregory of Valence confesseth Multa sunt c. There are many points of Christian Doctrine which of themselves can procure to themselves credit and authority Lastly the Greek Church with the reformed Churches receive all the Articles of the Apostles Creed because consonant to Gods Word not because delivered by your Roman Diana are those Articles therefore to be reputed Apocriphal and no way appertaining to the obligation of Faith Sure you cannot be so impudent as to assert it though we know Jesuitical impudency is not little For your Scriptures Sect. 2. When I see them reduced to arguments I shall
both to pray with him and to anoint him which is far from the ceremony of extream unction thus far Cajetan 3. Saint James's unction is no Sacrament it neither pretends to the name of Sacrament nor refers to any express institution of Jesus Christ which is the property of Evangelicall Sacraments but Popish unction assumeth to it self this name and that in a proper acception against both Scripture and antiquitie Scripture mentioning onely Christs institution of Baptisme and the Supper and antiquity when it speaks of proper Sacraments doing no more Rabanus Maurus who lived about 800 years ago acknowledgeth no more but Baptisme and the Lords Supper Hence I conclude that Protestants though opposite to Popish fopperies are not contrary to Apostolicall Doctrine 11. Inst The Bishop of Romes supremacie in spirituall matters Thou art Peter and upon this rock will I build my Church Feed my sheep To thee will I give the keyes of the kingdome of Heaven and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in Heaven whatsoever thou shalt tie on earth shall be tied in Heaven Matth. 16. Answ 1. Why do you seperate the Popes Spirituall from his Temporall power for we deny both and they are alike expressed in Scripture but 2. The Popes Supremacy in Spirituall matters is not in plain and formall tearms here expressed for 1. Here is no mention of any Pope or his Supremacy in Spirituall matters here is mention of Peter but few of your Popes have had that name 2. What is commanded and promised to Peter is commanded and promised to him not as Bishop of Rome but as an Apostle and therefore the same is commanded and promised to other Apostles The other Apostles are foundations as well as Peter and I am sure he is not the corner stone The keyes are promised to them as well as to him John 20.22 23. the other Apostles are to feed Christs sheep as well as he yea it is the duty of all Pastors Act. 20.28 3. What reason can be given why Peters supremacy should descend upon his Successors at Rome rather then his successors at Antioch 4. If Peter had any supremacy it was in regard of Apostleship so as to be the prime Apostle and have power over the rest but Apostolike power is not derived by succession upon any The truth is Peter had no power over the rest from Christ for Christs gift of such a power would have prevented the Apostles contention about supremacy or would have answered the question better then those words wherewith Christ did answer He might easily have said why do you strive which should be greatest know you not that I have made Peter your Prince and have made him Supreme but Christ thought of no such matter Thus I have shewed that Protestants do not professe a Doctrine contrary to the Apostles and I further adde that the Apostles doctrine expressed in Scripture is fully received by them We believe all that the Apostles have taught so far as God reveals their Doctrine to us It s therefore a most false slander to say that Protestants refuse some points the Apostles beleeved p. 65. We hold the Catholique faith entire and inviolate in Athanasius's sence we fully believe all the Articles of its Creed It s true we deny divers points that Papists believe we dislike the new articles of your late Creed which Athanasius as well as we received not into his Creed nor were they believed by the Apostles But you object sect 5. It is evident they were there being the same ground to assure us thereof as of Scripture or any other point they believed and that without which under a miracle there would not be the least knowledg of the Apostles belief to wit the Churches constant tradition Answ 1. It s most evident that the points Protestants deny were not believed by the Apostles For 1. The Scriptures mention them not the writings of the Apostles approve not of communion in one kind private masse prayer in an unknown tongue imagined worship auricular confession pardons indulgences restraint of people from reading Scripture or Clergy-men from marriage Popes infallibility sumpreamacy of temporal and spiritual power purgatory prayer for the dead or to Saints departed c. 2. The ancient Creeds do not mention any of these points which they would certainly have done if the Apostles had beleeved them much lesse do they make them necessary articles of faith See Caranz de concil conc Nic. p. 51. Syrm. p. 89. Constant p. 102. Tollet p. 131. Ephes p. 151. Calced p. 181. Read the Creeds of the Apostles of the Nicen Fathers of Syrmium Constantinople Tolet. Ephesus which Caranza calls a summe of all Christian Doctrine of the Romans with divers others and you shall not find one of your new articles so much as hinted in any of them 2. The proof of your evident assertion contains divers falsities as 1. That the Scripture is known only by Tradition or humane testimony whereas it gives testimony to it self as I have before shewed 2. That without the Churches constant tradition there would not be the least knowledg of the Apostles belief For 1. God can make the enemies of his Church the publishers and propagators of his truth Thus Cajetan notes that by the Apostacy and obstinacy of the Jews we know which are the true books of the old Testament 2. The Scriptures might be preserved though there should be a general apostacy and these could testifie of the Apostles belief 2 Reg. 22.8 as that book found in the days of Josiah testified of Moses's commands and threatnings 3. Christians for a long time had not the Churches Tradition i. e. the testimony of a general Councill informing them what was the Apostles belief or which were the books of Scripture 3. Those points of yours I mentioned cannot be evidenced to be the Apostles belief by the Churches constant tradition you cannot name one Author in every age since the Apostles out of whose writings you can prove that the Apostles maintained those Doctrines which we reject much lesse are you able to tell us of any visible Church or national Councill that will affirm it Concil Const Sess 13. The Councill of Constance acknowledgeth that Christ administred the Sacrament under both kinds and that the Primitive Christians did receive it under both kinds Can we then think that the Apostles thought communion under both kinds unlawfull How then durst he so administer it Was his practise contrary to his belief This would be a great wickedness not to be imagined of an Apostle 4. We approve of the Churches tradition as a witness of what the Apostles believed but only in subserviency to Scripture which doth principally discover what was the Apostles belief if your Councills had told us that the Apostles administred not the Sacrament in both kinds or that they allowed of prayers in an unknown tongue we would not beleeve your Councills because the Scripture speaks contrary to them and
which are dangerous meerly because we hold them 2. Impatience of labour Papists will not set themselves to read our books or if they read not to study them should I go over these parts where I live I believe I should not finde one Papist that doth seriously read our books nor can tell you truly what we hold they spend their time in other things and will not be perswaded to imploy themselves this way 3. The restraint that is laid upon them that they dare not read them Pope Pius by his Bull forbad Papists to look into the books of Calvin Bucer Bullinger and such like Heretiques as he calls them contrary to the practise of Protestants who are permitted to read Popish Books Dr. Reynolds takes notice of this injunction Reynold praelec 3. de lib. Apocr and saith Licet Pontif. Rom. prudentiam admirari qui suis interdicit ne legant habeant ve librum aliquem haeresiarcharum istorum quos appellat nempe si Calvinum Bucerum Bullingerum inspicere sinerent viderent quales Medii sint ipsorum Magisiri Hic in officinis Bibliothecis nostris cujus legendi permittuntur haeresiarchae Pontificii fortasse nimium peccamus in alteram partem Nay such is the care of these men that what we hold be not known to their people that the controversies written by their own men wherein our Doctrines are discovered and weakly confuted are not suffered to walk publikely where the Pope bears sway its observeable what Sir Edvin Sands writes Those principal Writers who have imployed themselves wholly in refuting from point to point the Protestants Doctrine and Arguments are so rare in Italy as by ordinary enquiry not to be found the controversies of Bellarmine I sought for in Venice in all places neither that nor Gregory of Valenza nor any of such quality could I ever in any such Shop in Italy set eye on but instead of them an infinite of meer invectives and declamations yea further they are not ashamed to censure some of the Holy Writers as seemingly at least consenting with us as the same Author notes Europ Specul pag. 156. The Papists saith he are very jealous of S. Pauls Epistles and think them dangerous so that some of their Jesuites of late in Italy in solemn Sermons and other of their favourers elswhere in private communication commending S. Peter for a worthy Spirit have censured S. Paul for an hot-headed person who was transported so with his pangs of zeal and eagerness beyond all compass in sundry his disputes that there was no great reckoning to be made of his assertions yea he was dangerous to read as savouring of Heresie in some places c. Certainly Papists are much afraid of books whereby the judgment might be informed lest their Disciples reading them should with that Author who was set to confute Calvin by our books be converted to the truth while they find our arguments solid and those accusations of Heresies cast on us by their Rabbi's to be nothing but slander and therefore most prudently the children of this world being wiser in their Generation then the children of light do they confine them to some kinde of books whereby a kinde of devotion may be excited in them but little of sound knowledg attained by them or rather tying them to Beads instead of books to dumb Pictures instead of the Gospel those lively representers of Jesus Christ and to railings and invectives instead of controversie When I consider these things I cannot but pity the common sort of Papists and withal admire the impudency of their Priests who while they cry up the peoples freedom of will yet flatly deny them to have any judgment 2. I desire to know who these Authors you mention are and whether they are yet unanswered I 'm sure there are many learned answers extant to the Popish books formerly written and for the late ones they are not yet grown common as they come to the knowledg of learned men I doubt not but they will receive their answers In the meane time though the meanest of that Tribe that desires to be learned I have attempted to answer your book to which I now depending on the assistance of Gods Spirit do address my self CHAP. I. Of Happiness WHen I had considered this Title and read the Chapter and compared it with others following I presently thought of those Locusts that came out of the smoak of the bottomless pit and of the shape wherein they are represented to us Apoc. 9.7 On their heads were as it were crowns of gold and they had brest-plates as it were brest-plates of iron and the sound of their wings was as the sound of charets of many horses running to battel and they had tails like unto scorpions and there were stings in their tails c. This Chapter is the crown like gold in the head of your Book one or two of your Chapters following have the faces of men the countenance of truth though not without some excrements of the Romish Whore the rest of your Book is military and hath a sound of War and the tail of it which is your Epilogue is the tail of a Scorpion and hath a sting in it wherewith to hurt the simple I shall therefore pass over this Chapter which is Christian to come to that in the others which is Popish CHAP. II. Of the Way to Happiness SEct. 2. you say God hath appointed the means to mans natural happiness to be acts of his understanding aâ—d will for by them he may seek and find out God as he is the Author and End of Nature by these cleave and unite and so enjoy him to mans supernatural happiness to be a Conformity of Faith to the Church a Conformity of Hope to our Lords Prayer and a Conformity of Charity to the Commandments Reply 1. Are not the acts of understanding and will means to supernatural happiness for by them he seeks and finds out God as he is the Author of Grace by these he cleaves and unites and so enjoys God his Saviour and Redeemer When you say Sect. 3. that by faith a man comes to the knowledg of God as he is the Author and End of Grace do not you think that faith is an act of the understanding or will But you were so big-bellyed with the Church that you travelled to be delivered of it and therefore not heeding what you have said you tell us of a Conformity of Faith to the Church 2. I confound Means of divers natures viz. those that are proximate and have an agency or activity in them as understanding and will and those that are remote and do only dispose and help those proximate and active means towards their intended end The proximate means of natural and supernatural happiness are the same only those faculties are helped as to natural happiness by the Books of Nature and the Creatures as to supernatural happiness by the Word of God contained in the Scriptures of the Old and
New Testament See Rom. 1.19 20. 2 Tim. 3.15 16.17 John 17.3 3. Your Conformity of Faith to the Church in a Popish sence is a novel phrase not used by the first Christians nor the Apostles of Christ in any of their writings nor did they ever bid men beleeve as the Church beleeved though that was of greater authority then the present Church is but still called their faith to the Word of God contrary to which if Paul or any other Apostles yea or Angels from Heaven did preach the people were to reject them and no doubt if Paul had preached such stuff as now Popish Sermons are filled with traditions and new decrees ungrounded on Gods Word the Beraeans had rejected him and his praying It was for want of this Conformity of Faith to the Word of God that our Saviour upbraids the two Disciples that travelled to Emaus Luk. 24.25 He saith not O flow of heart to beleeve all that the Church beleeves this as I said was no Scripture language nor known to primitive Christians but to beleeve all that the Prophets have spoken And that he may lead them to this Conformity of Faith he expounds not the Decrees and Constitutions of Scribes and Pharisees who sat in Moses Chair whereof there were many but 't is said Beginning at Moses and all the Prophets he expounded unto them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself vers 27. Sir I beleeve you are so dutiful a son to the Church that had you been in Christs stead you would rather have told them of Popes decretal Epistles then of Prophets writings of Traditions rather then Scripture if such things then had had a being But 4. Why could not you say a Conformity of Faith to the Truth revealed as well as a Conformity of Faith to the Church revealing the Truth The Truth revealed not the Church revealing it is the Rule of Faith as I shall shew hereafter 1. You might have done well once for all to have told us what you mean by The Church for the word is diversly attributed even by those who in general agree that it is only the Roman Church as you seem by your Epistle to the Reader to understand it 2. You urge Scripture to prove your Assertion viz. three Texts Mat. 28.19 Luke 10.16 Mat. 16. The two first do not so much as mention the word Church the last mentions the word but proves not the thing you bring it for 1. Mat. 28. Going teach ye all Nations Ans I wonder in what word the proof lies I suppose it 's not in Going and I dare say Teaching proves it not for then every Teacher should be a Rule of Faith besides the Apostles were not to teach men to hang their faith upon themselves or others whether of the Roman or any other Church but they were commanded to teach men to do whatsoever Christ had commanded vers 10. amongst which this was the principal work to believe on him whom God had sent Joh. 6.29 viz. Jesus Christ to whom they were brought by the Apostles preaching as living stones to be built upon a foundation 2. Luke 10.16 He that heareth you heareth me Ans I suppose this Text is brought to explain the other which had need of a Commentary to make it speak your language But 1. This is spoken primarily and absolutely of the Apostles who were Christs mouth in delivering the Scriptures and therefore infallibly inspired by the Holy Ghost that they could not err in what they delivered to us That which Moses was to the Jews in delivering the Law the same were the Apostles to us in delivering the Gospel So that he that heareth the Apostles heareth Christ because it was the word of Christ which they did speak and this way we hear the Apostles speak yet whilest wâ— read or hear the Scriptures which they pen'd but what is this to the present Roman Church and her unwritten Traditions 2. As it 's understood of ordinary Ministers in the Church it can only be understood conditionally He that heareth you while your doctrine agreeth with the Word of God heareth me so that faith is not a conformity to any Teachers or their doctrine but so far as their doctrine is agreeable with the Scriptures which indeed are the Rule both of their preaching and our beleeving Consonantly hereunto the Apostle saith If any man teach otherwise and consent not to wholesom words even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ he is proud from such withdraw thy self 1 Tim. 6.3 c. The Scribes and Pharisees who were the Church in a Popish sence were to be heard but it was whilest they sate in Moses Chair that is whilest they preached not their own traditions and phancies but Moses doctrine Arias Montanus saith Elucid in Mat. 23. Christ bids them do what the Scribes and Pharisees commanded Ex praescripto legis id est ex Cathedrâ Mosis So Origen Origen apud Lyran. Super Cathedram c. isie sermo de me est qui bona dâ—ceo contraria gero 3. The Text speaks not of the Church for particular Ministers in the Church are not the Church Now your Rhemists expound it of them in these words It is all one to despise Christ RheÌ„ Annot. on the Text. and to despise his Priests and Ministers in the Catholique Church to refuse his doctrine and theirs And indeed it must be understood of those who labour in the Word and Doctrine not of non-preaching Popes and Prelates 3. Mat. 16. you would say Mat. 18.17 which you read thus He that heareth not the Church let him be as an Heathen and a Publican Not to say any thing of your false quotation or reading a fault common throughout your Book Protestants may take notice what great cause we have to put these men into our bosoms as they expect whilest they profess we are no better then Heathens or Publicans though I am sure their usage from us hath shewed us Christians But to the Text How little it makes for your purpose the Context words themselves will shew It speaks not of Conformity of Faith to the Church but of obedience of the offending party to the admonition of the Pastors of the Church Thus Lyranus Si non aud Eccles pr ceptum praelatos contemnendo Lyr. in loc You might as well say that faith is a conformity to our selves because it 's said If he neglect to hear thee vers 15. or to two or three witnesses because it 's said If he neglect to hear them vers 17. whereby is implied that he ought to hear them Hence it might well follow that faith ought rather to be resolved upon a neighbor that is a private man then upon the Church because the offended party is first to be heard before the Church And then Sir who is guilty of the Private spirit that you anon talk of Sure your selves and not the Protestants In stead of these misapplied Scriptures for you I shall give you
was a Canonical book of the Old Testament which now you affirm So that in this example you kill two Birds with one stone Ecce duo gladii I pray Sir who told you that Tobit was a part of the Old Testament 1. The Jews told you not for they and to them were committed the Oracles of God received it not but cut it off from the Canon as Hierome in his Prologue to this Book Hierom. ad Chrom Heliod in Tob. Prolog and the Annotator upon him doth also confesse 2. Nor ancient Fathers Bellarmine observes that many of the Ancients as Melito Epiphanius Hilarius Hieronimus Ruffinus to whom add Cyril of Jerusalem in their delivering the Canon of the Old Testament Cyril Catech. 4. p. 99. Stapl. princip Doctr. Christ l. 9. do clearlie follow the Hebrews Stapleton also confesseth that this and other such like books were accounted by the most ancient Christians but as doubtful and Apocriphal 3. Did the Councils affirm it to you I know Trent did but she is a Novice and of no great authoritie in this point The Council of Laodicea confirmed afterwards in a General Council omits this book when she delivers the Canon of Scripture Ans Divers later writers do refuse this book as Lyranus and as I remember Lyran. praefat ad lib. Tobit Sixtus Senensis For a conclusion of this I shall tell you that there were some adjudged Heretiques by the General Council of Vienna amongst whose errors this is the Leader as mentioned by Caranza Quod homo in vita praesenti Caranz Sum. Concil p. 434. c. That man in this present life may attain to such and so great a degree of perfection that thereby he becomes altogether impeccable I pray shew us the difference betwixt this error and your supposed truth of possibilitie of keeping the Law 3. Your Arguments now come to be considered of The 1. is Gods conditional promises to David and his Posteritie could be tearmed no better then jeers unless the Commandments were possible A. I deny your consequence For 1. God may accept of that which man can perform though he do not perform what he should You know Hezekiah's prayer occasioned by a multitude of people that had not cleansed themselves and came to eat the Passeover The good Lord pardon every one that prepareth his heart to seek the Lord God of his Fathers 2 Cron. 30.18 19.20 though he be not cleansed according to the purification of the Sanctuary and the Lord hearkened to Hezekiah Here was a defect in their obedience and yet Gods acceptation and performance of his promise to them which was the benefit of this Sacrament as Lyranus tells you God did fulfil his promise to David and his Posteritie as Solomon acknowledgeth Who hast kept with thy servant David my Faiher that thou promised'st him 1 King 8.24 thou spakest also with thy mouth and hast fulfilled it with thine hand as it is this day Yet you cannot say that David or his Posterity yeelded exact obedience to Gods Commandements for they fell into grievous sins but the main of their lives was holie and this God was pleased to accept of The Falls of the Saints do not nullifie the Covenant of God though somtimes they bring Gods Rod upon them Ps 89.28 c. I should suppose that your self hope for an accomplishment of Gods promise yet I hardlie think that you dream of yeelding exact and perfect obedience to Gods Law before you can obtain the promise 2. God doth not jeer men by exacting obedience which they cannot yeeld For 1. He requires nothing but what they owe him 2. He requires nothing but what he gave them once power to pay him 3. He requires nothing but what Jesus Christ is able to pay for them and God therefore exacts it of them that they may seek unto him on whom he hath laid help This is clearlie taught Isai 55.3.4 I will make an everlasting Covenant with you even the sure mercies of David saith God But Jesus Christ must be given or else this Covenant cannot be sure See Rom. 8.3.4 a most plain text for this purpose 2. Argument is this To what purpose is so much perswasion in books and Pulpits to live well if the Commandments be impossible Is living well any other than keeping of the Commandments It is assuredly as ridiculous as impious to term him a good liver that steals murders and commits adultery c. A. 1. Those perswasions are regulated by Gods command God commands men to live well which as you say is to keep the Commandments and Ministers in books and Pulpits perswade men thereto But to what purpose say you are these if the Commands be impossible I answer it is to much purpose As 1. To shew men what they ought to do It 's a noted Speech of that great Anti-Pelagian St. Augustin O homo in praeceptione cognosce c. O man in the precept know what thou oughtest to have You perswade many to joyn themselves to your Roman Church as the way to salvation which its impossible for many of them to do if you consider either Gods decree or their stability They should deceive if it were possible the very Elect but its impossible that 's implied Now if we ask why you perswade such I know no better reason you could render then this that you shew them what according to your judgment they ought to do 2. To beat down pride and conceit of justification by works whilst we see that there is more owing to God than we can pay This appears in the Apostles speech Rom. 7.9 I was alive without the Law once but when the commandment came sin revived and I dyed This the Law is a worker of fear and bondage and a killing letter 3. To drive them to Christ and the Grace of God through him Propterea enim mandatur saith devout Bernard Therefore God hath enjoyned as to observe his Commandments Bern. in vigil Nat. dom Ser. 2. that seeing our weakness and defects and that we cannot do what we ought we might fly to the mercy of God Thus the Law is a School-Master to lead us to Christ making us ready to hearken to his invitations to lay hold upon his promises meditate on that text Math. 11.30 If this end were not in it I know not why it should perswade those in an unregenerate estate to obey the commands for its impossible they should keep them as all except Pelagians will grant 2ly Whereas you say Is living well any other then keeping of the Commands I Answer Living well and absolute perfect obedience to Gods Commands are not convertible You say of many that they live well but confess you cannot name one man that perfectly keeps the Commandments It would be a harsh note if I should tell you that I know not one Papist in England that lives well Or if some Traveller should affirm that he met not with one man in all
Christ which they had before resisted 4. Your fourth text shews if it be any thing to our present purpose that the Spirit and your Roman Church are two Masters that cannot both be served and therefore it s not strange you have opposed the Spirit whilst you have stood for your Churches interest But Sir know that the Spirit of God and the true Church are not contrary Masters much lesse the Spirit of God in private persons and the same Spirit in publique Ministers The Spirit of God is in the Church and in every particular and reall member thereof revealing himself to each according to the capacity and need of every member 2. You affirm concerning the Scriptures that the Scripture is deficient which you prove by Scripture and by Reason 1. By Scripture for Scripture attesteth it in that it refers to the Church Answ 1. The Scripture never refers to the Church for the perfecting of it that so it may become a perfect Rule of Faith Azor. instit moral part 2. l. 5. c. 24. ad finem if it do shew me where for I know not 2. Your own Authors confesse that the Church cannot make an article of faith how then can she supply the Scriptures deficiency 2. You attempt to prove it by reason saying reason makes it good because it declares not all points that Christians are bound to believe which they acknowledg themselves bound to beleeve Answ 1. I could bring many testimonies to prove that Scripture is a rule your selves grant it to be a rule when you call it Canonical with exclusion of other writings now it s no rule if it be not perfect for the rule that faith requires ought to be as full and ample as the duty of faith 2. The Scripture asserts that whatsoever we are bound to beleeve as necessary to salvation to be beleeved is contained in Scripture that noted place 2 Tim. 3.15 16. makes it evident the abundant utility shews its sufficiency to instruct any to salvation that speech of Biel Quomodo anima hominis In Can. miss lect 7. f. 146. c. How can the soul of man live the life of Righteousnâ—sse and Grace unlesse it know Gods will and those things which according to it are just or unjust to be done or to be left undone to be loved or to be hated to be fear'd or to be attempted and what are to be beleeved and wâ—at to be hoped for with what ever else is necessary to our salvation all which sola docet sacra Scriptura the sacred Scripture alone tâ—acheth Indeed we grant that all things to be beleived are not expresly set down in Scripture nevertheless what is not expressed may be deduced from that which is expressed or analogically reduced thereunto But I come to your instances of points of faith which Scripture declares not 1. Instance concerning Scriptures You say they declare not that those books of Scripture which are received for Canonical are so indeed that some are Canonical other some Apocriphal that they are determinately these or others â—nsw 1. They do declare that those books which are received for Canonical by Protestants are such and the Apocryphal books are not such For 1. One part of Scriptures gives testimony of another The New Testament bears witness of those books that go under the name of Moses the Prophets and Psalms again they give testimony to the New Testament Yea the whole Scripture doth bear witness to it self that it is the Word of God haveing those intinsecal notes whereby it may be known thus it is with the book of the creatures which sets forth the wisdom power and goodness of God and is therefore a witnesse thereof Now if it be asked whence it appears that this is a witnesse it must be granted that it appears by that order which is in the Creation together with the profitablenesse and usefullnesse of all things in their places The harmony consent spiritual profit c. of Gods Word in Scripture doth evidence that it is Gods Word and sacred Scripture If it were not thus that Scripture gave testimony of it self how doth the Church it self know Scripture to be Scripture She cannot plead Enthusiasme and the humane testimony of Fathers is no sufficient ground for infallibility 2ly All things are written by the Apostles which are necessary to be beleeved by all men Bellarm. de suffis script c. 11. these are Bellarmines words but to beleeve the Scriptures to be the Scripture is necessary for all men say you therefore it must needs follow that its written by the Apostles that the Scriptures are Scriptures 3ly By way of retortion I pray Sir how do you know that this or the other is the true Church for this Bellarmine saith must be certainly known in as much as all opinions depend upon his testimonies The same way that you say the Church may be known even by it self the same way do we know the Scriptures they give evidence to themselves 4th The exact knowledg of what books are Canonical is not absolutely necessary to be beleeved I deny not but the knowledg of Gods Word is thus necessary and this may be where that knowledg is wanting It cannot rationally be denyed that Christians for some hundred years after the Apostles did know the Word of God yet wanted exact knowledg of what books were Canonical nor was the knowledg of them judged necessary to salvation 2. Instance concerning the Jewish Sabboth You say The Scripture declare not that the Jews Sabboth â—s to be neglected and laid aside and the sunday solemnized An w. The Scriptures declare both The first Col. 2.16 17. Let no man judg you in respect of the Sabboth days which are a shaddow of things to come but the body is of Christ Azorius saith the precept of the Sabboth Azor. inst tuor p. 2. l. 1. c. 1. if you consider the determinate and set time did belong to the ceremonial Law and therefore was abolished by the death of Christ Now the Scriptures are most clear and full for the abolishing of the ceremonies For the second the Scriptures expresly teach the solemnization of Sunday 1 Cor. 16. Apoc. 1. Calling it the Lords day Rhem. amot on Gal. 4.10 The Rhemists say In the Apoc. c. 1. There is plain mention of the Sunday that is our Lords day unto which the Jewes Sabboth was altered 3. Instance Concerning the Creed you say The Scriptures declare not that the Creed is authentique and truly the Apostles Answ 1. If you consider the matter of it the Scriptures declare that it is truly authentique and the Apostles for the articles thereof are Apostolique Doctrine contained in the Scriptures Every article may be proved by them 2ly If you consider the form or composure of it that the Apostles made it each one of them addding an article to it this is not necessary to be beleived being but grounded on humane fallible testimony 4. Inst Concerning things indifferent
by faith without the deeds of the Law They must therefore be reconciled which they may by saying that faith only doth properly justifie us before God and Works do justifie our faith to be a true faith for as much as true faith is productive of good works for we abhor those mens conceit who imagine that faith may suffice a man though he live ill and have no good works Or 2. By saying that good works do evidence our justification Aquinas confesseth that works in c. 3. ad Gal. are not the cause that any man is just before God but they are rather manifestations of Righteousnesse and Justification Certainly Abraham was justified in the sight of God before he offered up his son Isaac which is the foundation of Saint James's speech Papists are so much convinced of this that to evade Protestant Doctrine at least seemingly they invent a distinction of a first and second justification from that they exclude all works and attribute it only to faith and the other is not properly personal justification 8. Inst Prayer to Saints The Angel that delivered from all evils blessed the Children Gen. 48. Answ 1. Here is no mention of Saints much lesse of prayer to them not so much as an implicite hint of such a thing for I suppose Jacob was not of the mind of the Grecian Daemon worshippers who said it mattered not whether they called the souls of the defunct angells or gods 2. By Angel is meant Jesus Christ the Angell of the Covenant Mal. 3.1 who is true God and he who delivered Jacob out of all his evils Thus both Jewish and Christian Expositors understand it 3. I think you mistooâ— this for the latter part of the verse which Papists urge to prove invocation of Saints But seeing you doe not urge it I shall not at present answer it 9. Inst Prayer for the dead It is an holy and wholsome cogitation to pray for the dead 2 Maccab 12. A. 1. This book is not Apostolicall nor part of the Canon of Scripture the Hebrews keepers of the book of the Old Testament received it not as is generally confest and though some fathers commend this and other books of this nature to be read yet they commended them onely as profitable Treatises not as Canonicall Scriptures and therefore advise men to reade them with discretion and prudence Christ though he gives testimony to the Prophets and Psalms he gives none to these or in speciall to this besides there are divers things in this render it suspected 1. The Author of this book supposed to be Josephus professeth it to be onely an abridgement of Jason of Cyrene c. 2.23 and the Holy Ghost is not used to Epitomize profane Histories 2. He makes an excuse for himself and such a one as the holy Writers never used nor becomes a Divine History c. 15. 38. Answ 2. The Text you urge may be divers wayes oppugned 1. The words are not rightly translated by you the Greek is thus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 A holy and pious cogitation therefore he made expiation or satisfaction by sacrifice for the dead to free them from sin the words are not to be read without a middle distinction Vatablus who includes these words Piam et sanctam cogitationem in a parenthesis refers them neither to prayer nor sacrifice but to the resurrection of the dead saying it s an holy and pious thought to think that the bodies of them who have deserved well of their Country should rise again and not perish for ever 2. Supposing Sacrificing or Prayer seeing you will have it so for the dead were lawfull yet as to these persons it cannot be allowed For first they were Idolaters slain for their idolatry verse 40. Dying for any thing appears to the contrary in a mortall sin 2. They were not in Purgatory the onely place from whence Prayers bring souls for at this time Purgatory had not so much as an imaginary existence 3. Supposing Prayer for the dead and holy and wholesome cogitation and might be proved so from this place yet how can we be said to maintain a Doctrine clean contrary and opposite to that which the Apostles in plain and formall tearms expressed Though here be expressed the opinion of Judas or Jason of Cyrene yet neither Judas nor Jason were the Apostles of Christ nor yet any of the Prophets of God the last of whom was Malachi It is evident that you want spirituall proofs for your charitable devotion else you would not have urged against us those books you know we account Apocriphal and not bring one syllable of Scripture you must first prove unto us the Divine authority of the books of Maccabees and then prove our contrarietie to Scriptures in dissenting from them till then you beg the question 10. Inst Extream unction Is any body sick amongst you let him bring in the Priests of the Church and pray over him anoynting him with oyl in the name of our Lord. Jam. 5. Answ 1. Here are not the plain and formal tearms of extream unction nor do I think that you read them in any ancient Author the word Extream shews your extram abuse of this ordinance as Lorichius otherwise as much for this supposed Sacrament as any o-any other clearly demonstrates in these words Abusus vocbuli est quod dicitur extrema unctio c. It s an abuse of the word to call it extream unction For it s not a Sacrament of dying men but of those who are sick not relateing to their burial but conducing to their recovery Whence it was that in the primitive Church many when they were anointed did recover health And even at this day many wâ—uld be healed if this Sacrament were rightly used I observe that these Popish Authors who pretend to follow antiquity do avoid this tearm Extream calling this supposed Sacrament either sacramentum unctionis aegrotorum as Lorichius or simply Cass consult Art 22. p. 985. unctio infirmorum as Cassander who also shews that its of use for the sick in order to their recovery of bodily health 2. This text of the Apostle proves not your extream unction It speaks of that miraculous anointing which Saint Mark mentions Mark 6.13 and which Bellarmine saith was a sign used in miraculous healing of the diseased your Rhemists imply that it had a miraculous medicinal vertue to heal diseases which you will hardly say of your extream oyl Cajetan expresly denies that this text of James Cajet in cap. 5. Jac. proves extream unction and proves it by divers reasons 1. Saint James saith not if any man be sick unto death but absolutely if any man be sick 2. The proper effect of Saint James unction is recovery of health If he speaks of remission of sins onely conditionally whereas extream unction is not given but at the point of death and directly tends as its form stands to the remission of sins besides Saint James requires that many Elders be called to one sick person
Rome's Conviction OR A DISCOVERIE Of the unsoundness of the main Grounds of Rome's Religion in answer to a book called The right Religion evinced by L.B. Shewing 1. That the Romish Church is not the true and onely Catholick Church infallible ground and rule of Faith 2. That the main Doctrines of the Romish Church are damnable errors therefore to be deserted by such as would be saved Nos autem non moveat aut turbet haeretici istius perfidi abrupta dementia qui cum in tam ingenti dissentionis schismatis crimine constitutus ab Ecclesia seperatus sit sacrilegà temeritate non dubitet in nos sua crimina retorquere Cum sit enim à seipso nunc factus immundus sordibus sacrilegis inquinatus hoc nunc nos esse contendit c. Cyprian libell ad Novat Haeretic By WILLIAM BROWNSWORD M.A. and Minister of the Gospel at Douglas Chappell in Lancashire London Printed by J.M. for Luke Fawn at the sign of the Parrat in Pauls Churchyard 1654. Brownsword's Romes Conviction Christian Reader COnsidering the multitude of Popish as well as of other corrupt Books dispersed amongst us the greater activitie of the Romish partie in oppugning than of ours in propugning the Truth the reproaches which the true Reformed Protestant Religion by reason of the Schismes Heresies Blasphemies Perjuries Treacheries and other gross enormities of some pretended Professors thereof lies under It must needs be a work acceptable to God and good men to speak a word in season to roll away the reproach of Sion to make good her antient plea against Babylon and to manifest that we have neither lost nor left our Religion The which is the pious design of this Author in this answer As therefore upon perusall of it we have judged it to be solid as well as seasonable so we shall pray and hope that it may be serviceable to the Church of God Richard Hollinworth Edward Gee To the Worshipfull WILLIAM ASHHURST ESQUIRE SIR IF either particular favours exhibited to the Authour of any Book or publick zeal for truth in the exhibitant two of the main grounds of Dedicatory Epistles may oblige to a Dedication I know none whom I can so readily look to as your self from whom as the Church of God hath received much good especially whilest the Lord did imploy you in a publick trust so my self in particular have shared of your influences Your actings in publick seasoned with wisedome piety zeal and fidelity have made you pretious in the godlies sight both in this and our sister Nation Your seclusion from that trust hath made you less seen not less vertuous your influences are not bound up but contracted that they might be more forcible where they fall Our cold Religion hath more of warmth by your presence Whilest you are an example to some and an encouragement of others to their duty Your constancy zeal for Truth love to the Ministery diligence in frequenting Ordinances besides your Family worship and that in these fickle and cold times wherein Ministry Ordinances and Duties are every where cried down do render you a worthy example to frozen souls Your respect to the Ministers of Christ to whom your house is as Obediahs to the Prophets learned from the example of your religious father is a great incouragement of them to their duty Hereof as others so especially my self have been a witness and a large partaker receiving the greater influence by my nearness to you being for some time of your family and still owned as your Pastor As a small acknowledgement whereof I humbly offer these first fruits of my publick labours for under your wing they were sown quickned and brought to this ripeness They beg your acceptance and patronage which if the Author obtain for them He matters not the blustrings or hatred of Popish adversaries against him The weakness of the work may receive strengthâ— Cum sapimus patrâ—â—s years may teach more knowledge In the interim your favour may much strengthen it but especially Gods blessing to which I commend both your self and it and rest Yours in all Christian dutie perpetually obliged WILLIAM BROWNSWORD To the Orthodox READER AMongst all the Darts that Satan useth for the subversion of the Church there is none more dangerous nor more used then his Arrow of Division Hereby apishly imitating God himself who by dividing their tongues overthrow Babels Builders and by an evil spirit between Abimelech and the men of Sechem destroyed them both When Satan had endeavoured but could not hinder the Churches Resurrection in Great Constantine what hot divisions did he raise within her by Arian Hereticks what contentions did the Church groan under in the time of zealous Luther when Zion had newly delivered her selfe from the daughters of Babylon with whom she had dwelt In our own times since the Church began to ascend to more then ordinary Reformation in Doctrine Worship Discipline and Government and that the Reformed Churches were drawing to the nearest union even in this juncture of time doth this old Serpent practise his ancient policy This he doth by his agents amongst whom in these last ages the Romanists first Heathen now Christian idolaters are chief These have been the usual Fomenters of Protestant differences using it as a main stratagem to divide us that so they may overcome us witness the advice of Cardinal Allen mentioned by the Cheshire Ministers in their attestation Chesh attest p. 34. And the project of the Spanish Court attested by Sheldon sometimes a Popish Priest Sheld Survey of Miracles of Antichrist pag. 179 180. and conversant in it His words because considerable I have at large transcribed Wheresoever saith he and whensoever I have heard as I have done often some no small ones of those countreys and of those Courts debate upon 88 s overthrow they ever resolved that Elizabeth living so they termed that renowned Queen's Reigne there was no such like attempt to be made but she being dead then if variety of Competitors which they hoped for did bring confusion it would be good fishing otherwise if there follow a Successour peaceably to the Crown then they resolved that all means possible were to be used that peace might be concluded which being made then by the secret endeavors of Priests and religious men who might be sent hither with more security then before we must draw said they if not wholly yet to be at least our indirect favourers and friends some of the Commanders and those who cannot be won by pretence of religion must be purchased by gifts and large promises But above all we must labour to shake hands with some of those to whom the care of the Navy the Ports and Sea-coasts is committed that if any such like attempt hereafter be thought upon by the Pope or his Catholick Majesty we may find some favourites This is their grand Project and whether they are not now acting it let the Considerate judge for my own
part I have and still do look on the Papists as the principal Instruments in our divisions and there are these five speciall Considerations move me to it 1. The many Popish Errours instilled into and broached by such as leave the truth Who that knows Anabaptism but is acquainted with their Popish Doctrines of Free-will Justification by works Possibility of keeping the Commandements c. It was Mr Love's Observation to his people a little before his troubles that there were about twenty Popish errours broached by them Was not the Foundation of that Babel the Anabaptistical party were lately erecting if God in mercy to his Church had not broken them in pieces a popish principle viz. that Dominion is founded in grace and therefore they the Saints must rule over the wicked as any that professed the true religion and had estates would have been Is not the Quaker religion a mixture of Popery with other errors else what means those Tenets charged upon them by the Ministers of Newcastle That we are not justified by the righteousness of Christ A book called The perfect Pharisee under Monkish holiness c. which he in his own Person did fulfill without us but by inherent holyness which Christ within us inables us to perform 2. That man by his own power may stand perfect and that men may be perfectly holy in this life 3. That there is no entrance into Heaven for any not perfectly holy unless by Purgatory 4. That every man in the world hath a light within him sufficient to guide him to salvation 5. That the Scriptures are not a rule for us nor are the spirits to be tried by Scripture nor are we to study them or give any sense of them 2. The Apologies which have been of late made for Papists and Popery by the Authors of the Beacon quenched the Catholick Moderator with many other books pretendedly printed in France but really in England as the Beacon on fire undertakes to prove 3. The discovery of some Priests and Jesuits and their secret actings tending to divisions themselves going under the names of converted Jews or gifted men or such as have left Popish Seminaries out of discontent with Popish errors or Gentlemen that have been travelling and return unto us for their healths sake or friends to some private Papists whom they can accompany into the society of such as they have hopes of seducing 4. The many wandring persons strangers in the places where they come without any call or imitation gathering assemblies thrusting themselves into the company of honest but simple persons and dispersing books pretending to and holding out some Truths but not without mixture of Popish errors 5. The intolerable enmity in the sectaries of our dayes against those who most earnestly oppose Popery and according to their Covenant seek the extirpation of it Nothing hath so much been declaimed against none so much opposed as the Ministry and Ministers of Christ who have set themselves against these errors Against this evil there is a twofold remedy 1. Discoveries of true solid and fundamentall Doctrines which hath been excellently done by the reformed Churches in their Harmony of Confessions by the reverend Assembly of Divines at Westminster in their Confession of Faith and Catechismes and by many particular Divines in their summs of Divinity 2. Opposition of the enemies of the Churches peace and unity In which many have bestowed much labour to good purpose some resisting one error and some another weakning the power and stopping the progress of false teachers Though the former be more excellent as more familiar and publick in its use every one not being able to wade into Controversie yet this latter hath its profit and is also necessary and therefore the Apostle requires that a Bishop be able by sound Doctrine both to exhort and convince the gain-sayers Tit. 1.9 10 11. and his reason is For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers specially they of the Circumcision whose mouths must be stopped who subvert whole houses teaching things which they ought not for filthy lucres sake Of this nature is this book before thine eyes composed and set forth upon serious and considerate grounds The occasion offered hath an influx upon its composure the seasonableness of it as the Author conceives occasions its publishing The occasion was this a Popish Gentleman with whom I had some converse having had the loan of a Protestant Author of mine in requitall brought me this Popish Doctor as worth my reading expecting as I conceived that I should say something to it which at first I thought to do very briefly and suddenly But finding the book full of errors and the study of a reply delightfull and suitable to my studies wherein by occasion of the place and persons amongst whom Gods providence had cast me I had been most imployed next to my speciall Ministeriall duties especially supposing it might be an Antidote both to my own Congregation and others against this and such like infectious writings I proceeded to this answer which thou now seest which I conceive very seasonable in these times being moved hereunto by these reasons 1. This is the great Controversie Popery is the main errour which the Church of the New-Testament hath to oppose It s the mystery of iniquity upheld by the man of sin The Antichrist 2. It s at present least opposed of any other We abound in controversies amongst our selves whilest Papists set by unopposed taking it to use the Cheshire Ministers language as if God had set us together by the ears to make some sportfull spectacle for them to behold 3. It s most active though more prudently and with lesse noise managed then other errours The man of sin was acting in the Aposâ—les days much more now seeing his time is shorter than then it was Popish books are compiled translated printed and dispersed over the Nation Priests abound and are active amongst our people both with books and tongues and make great use of our divisions to perswade to Popery 4. It s the judgement of some learned men that Antichrist shall have a time of prevailing before his death and if so the people of God must have a time for their trying and it cannot be far off Now when this comes the question will not be whether we be Episcopal Presbyterian or Independant this and many such like differences which through meekness of spirit might be easily reconciled shall then with shame be laid aside and questions of higher concernment will be put to us as whether we believe the carnal presence in the Sacrament the Popes-Headship in the Church and the Roman Churches Headship over the world whether we believe the Scriptures or not rather the Pope to be the rule of faith whether we allow of Free-will Merit Justification by works Prayer to Saints as Mediators halfe Commuâ—ion which with other errours this Book of my Adversary endeavours to perswade you to and that with great hastiness 5.
The thoughts and study of this Controversie may be a means to divert that heat which flye into oâ—r faces one against another We have an enemy that seeks the ruine of us all and is getting ground of us whilest we are contesting with our selves Should we not unite against him Papists are no despicable adversaries they are politick in getting and cruel in their possessing power over us Should they prevaile they would soon put a period to many of our controversies to a deal of our fury against Ministers Ordinances Truths I know it will be said this Controveâ—sie is old and very much is already learnedly written against it and there needs no more To this I answer 1. Though the Controversie is old yet it still continues We have not yet seen the expected fall of Antichrisâ— It would favour ill to perswade an Army to leave off a Siege because much powder and bullets have been shot against it Bâ—bylon is not yet stoâ—med and taken and ruined 2. I acknowledge that much hath been leaâ—nedly written against it I reverence the memory of learned Whitakers Reinolds Chamier Cameron Perkins Rivet with many others with whom Papists may cavil but shall never confute My designe is not to adde perfection to their labours nor to oppose them mainly with whom they have contested If I mention Bellarmine Baily c. it s only because they comply with or dissent from my present Adversarie my purpose is only to imitate them who opposed Popery in sâ—ch as maintained it in their times I rake not amongst the dead but meddle with a present writer If Papists will writ anew against truth it cannot be unseasonable to write anew for truth Many errours long since confuted and laid in the dust yet rising again are assaâ—lted by later Divines I had rather say much for truth then too little What I thought necessary to say against this Authour I have spoken avoiding invectives and needless digressâ—ons endeavâ—uring to prevent some charges in thy buying and some pains in thy reading of it and some rayling from my Adversary if he should reply I commit thee and this labour to Gods Blessing If thou reap benefit by it give God the praise and let the Authour have thy prayers whereby thou shalt oblige to further service Thine and the Churches Servant in the Work of Christ William Brownsword The Contents of this Book CHapter 1. Of Happiness Page 13 Chap. 2. Of the way to Happiness Page 14 Chap. 3. Of the diversities of Faiths Hopâ—s and Charities Page 23 Chap. 4. Of the Churches Power and Infaâ—ibilitie in matters of Faith Page 27 Chap. 5. Oâ— the possibilâ—tie of keeping the Commandements Page 69 Chap. 6. Of Religion Page 93 Chap. 7. Of the Vnitie of Religion Page 79 Chap. 8. Of the Spirit of Spiritists Page 103 Chap. 9. Of thâ— Spiritists rule of Faâ—th Page 113 Chap. 10. Of the Protestant Church Page 130 Shape 1. Page 132 Shape 2. Page 153 Shape 3. Page 159 Shape 4. Page 173 Shape 5. Page 182 Chap. 11. Of the Roman Church Page 231 Chap. 12. Of certain Objections made against the Roman Church Page 272 1. Objection Page 273 2. Objection Page 299 3. Objection Page 321 4. Obâ—ection Page 324 5. â—b ectiâ—n Page 340 6. Objection Page 348 7. Objection Page 363 The Epilogue Page 380 Romes Conviction OR A DISCOVERY OF The unsoundness of the maine grounds of Romes Religion WHen I look upon this book I cannot but remember what that blessed Apostle St. Peter foretold should come to pass There shall be false Teachers amongst you who privily shall bring in damnable Heresies and many shall follow their perniciouâ— ways by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of and through covetousness shall they with feigned words make Merchandize of you c. 2 Pet. 1. What feigned words this Author useth whereby to bring in his damnable Heresies and to make Merchandize of souls besides the book it self the Epistles and Epilogue do clearly evince I shall therefore take a view of them as they lye in my way and first for the Epistles one is directed to the Catholikes of England the other to the Reader whether he intends to exclude his Catholiques from reading his Book because he distinguisheth from the Reader or that he mainly designs it for the use of others it may be the Protestants of England whilst he only calls for the Patronage of Catholikes let the Reader judg Certainly there are strong endeavours to enlarge the Popes Chair by the seduction of English Protestants as appears by those many books lately printed in London in the behalf of that Seat The former Epistle is divided betwixt murmuration and adulation There are sad complaints that truth is grown so loathsome and hateful tâ—at whosoever goeth about to tell it indangers displeasure they despise and maligne what ought most of all to be cherisht and loved of whom it is said they preferred darkness before light Joh. 3. Were it the truth indeed that you speak of I should joyn with you in complaining and rather entitle your language to a serious and sad complaint then an unjust murmuration It was once the sad language of the Prophet That truth is fallen in the streets yea truth faileth and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey Isai 59.14.15 And through the privy introduction of Heresies amongst us it hath come to pass that the way of truth is evil spoken of and the language of the Prophet is in the mouths of thousands of Gods Saints But blessed be God for this good news from Rome that Popery is grown so loathsome and hateful that whosoever goeth about to tell it indangers displeasure and let me tell you that I hope that God will raise up Governours in this Land that with other Protestant Princes shall hate the Whore and shall make her desolate and naked and shall eat her flesh and burn her with fire Apoc. 17.16 and that as God hath cast it out from being the publikely profest way in this Nation so he will root it out of the hearts of people in this Land more and more though your selves be murmurers c. 2 Pet. â— 2. Your adulation is most palpable Catholikes are renowned Catholikes the best and greatest conquerours brave champions great glorious good conquerours overcoming themselves and what not Their sufferings are many glorious * Such as blessed Saints have passed through for the truth for God and God with them in them and for them God hath just cause to reward them But alas how groundless are all these Titles 1. What great or how many sufferings have your Catholiques undergone in Englâ—nd Have you been burnt at Stakes or drawn into close inquisitions and there tortur'd rackt murdered Have your bodies been mangled and cut in pieces Have you been gathered into Companies and then burnt Have your Wives been ravisht and ript up and their children tost on Pikes Have you been whipt to death Have the
endeavour to answer them for the present I understand not what they should prove and therefore dismiss them without any answer In your third Section you go about to prove the Churches infallibility as a qualification of her for the delivery of a Rule of Faith and you urge divers Arguments which I now come to examine and answer Arg. 1. God hath endowed her with inerrability whereby to convey the truth safely and without danger of miscarrying by arming her proof against all the enemies of truth against ignorance error darkness weakness For this you urge divers Texts In these words though they seem an intention of but one argument yet there are these two viz. 1. If the Church cannot convey truth safely and without danger of miscarrying but by the gift of inerrability then Christ hath endowed her with it But she cannot convey truth safely and without danger of miscarrying but by the gift of inerrability Ergo c. 2. If Christ hath armed his Church against the enemies of truth viz. ignorance darkness error and weakness then hath he endowed her with inerrability but he hath so armed her Ergo c. To these in order Ans First to the first I answer 1. By denying the consequence of the major Proposition the reason of my denial is this Christ hath not made the Church the principal much less the only means of conveying truth safely Though yoor Pope Cardinals Jesuites Priests yea General Councils should err yet there remains a safe way of conveying truth without miscarrying that is the Scriptures 2 Pet. 1.19 Beda paraphrasing upon those words In a dark place Beda apud Lyran. hath this note In hujus saeculi nocte c. In the night of this world full of temptations vices and errors where there is hardly one to be found without error against which this light is necessary So that you see the Scriptures convey the truth safely against temptations vices errors in the judgment of this venerable Author It may be you will object that infallibility is necessary for the Church that she may safely convey these Scriptures wherein the truth is But I deny this to be true For 1. It cannot be denied but God did make use of the Jewes to preserve the Scriptures Rom. 3.2 yet by the leaven of their Doctors the Pharisees the Commandments of God were transgressed Matth. 23.5 Yea it evidenceth their errability that they mistook the sense of the Law and when Christ came Mariana tract pro edit vulgát cap. 7. p. 50. that they did generally oppose and resist him and yet I believe the Scriptures yea I had almost said the very iota's and titles of them were preserved from miscarrying Your Authors confess of the Hebrew text that there is no substantial error in it 2. The Law was by Gods providence kept safely a great while in the House of the Lord unknown to any till Hilkiah the High-Priest found it in the daies of Josiah 2 King 22.8 Now you will not ascribe infallibility to the House of the Lord. 3. You acknowledg not the Greek Church to be a true Church yet the Scriptures have been safely preserved by them whilest the error of the Chiliasts and of those who laid a necessity on Infants to receive the Eucharist remained in the Church which was for some 100. of years yet then the Scriptures were preserved from miscarrying The truth is Gods Providence is chiefly ingaged for the preservation of these books and that concurring any means that God useth may suffice though they were Turks and Heathens that had the keeping of them 2. I answer by denying your Minor and say the Church may convey the truth without the gift of inerrability bestowed on her as well as other Churches subject to errour have done Thus we confess that your Roman Church hath preserved the ancient Creeds the Commandments and Scriptures though we deny you to be sound members of the Catholike Church We admire and adore Gods providence not your inerrability had not a Divine hand overawed you I fear the Scriptures would have fared little better then the Fathers have done whose writings you have notoriously corrupted and falsified as hath beene manifested against you by our learned Writers 2. Arg. 2. To your second Argument I answer by distinction viz. a subject and particularly the Church may be armed against ignorance darkness error and weakness either in regard of hurts blows and lesser foils or in regard of total ruine or a final overthrow or if you will these may be considered either as total or only partial It 's exemption not onely from total and ruining ignorance darkness error and weakness but from inferiour degrees hereof that can prove infallibility in the subject so exempted So then if the Church be exempted from all degrees of these evils so as they cannot at all hurt her then your Argument is good but this exemption I utterly deny Christ hath only so far armed his Church whilst Militant against these that they shall not ruine or destroy her gross ignorance and obstinate error the forerunners of ruine cannot happen to the Church but lesser degrees of these may This is confessed by your own Authors of each of these 1. Ignorance Lombard saith Lomb. l. 4. dist 18. f. Deus non semper sequitur ecclesiae judicium c. God doth not alwayes concur with the judgment of the Church which judgeth somtime by stealth and ignorance 2. Darkness Ccc. Dial. p. 1. lib. 5. cap. 28. Occam saith Circa illa c. Concerning those things that are not necessary to be believed expresly it s not necessary that the Churches judgment be alwayes certain Sure uncertaintie of judgment must arise from darkness 3. Error Thus Picus saith Fieri potest c. It may be that the Vice-head may be distempered as the natural Franc Picus Theor. 23. and as this noxious humour so that may diffuse into the body unsound opinions Stapl. Relect c. 1. q. 4. Art 5. Not. 1. Stapleton confesseth That perfect holiness in regard of Doctrine is not in all times and places because great men may not only doubt but err in some points of Doctrine and yet the true Church remain with them 4. Weakness Thus Turrecrema saith Quamvìs ecclesia Turrecr sum d. Eccles 2. c. 112. c. Although the Church be supported by divine power and authority yet inasmuch as it is a Congregation of men something through humane weakness is acted by it which is not divine Thus it 's confest that the Church is not totally exempted from these enemies But because you bring Scripture to patronize your cause let us see whether it speak for you 1. Against Ignorance you urge Mat. 13. To you it is given to know the mysteries of the Kingdome of heaven Ans 1. I wonder your Rhemists had nothing to say for the Churches infallibilitie from this Text all that they conclude from it is this That to the Apostles and
by this means being of several Nations Ps 11. different tempers and interests Luk. 24. neither could nor can meet or conspire to cheat themselves or posteritie with a lie Which may be reduced to this Syllogism If the Church be composed of men of several Nations different tempers and interests then it 's infallible but it is so composed c. therefore infallible A. To your minor I shall onlie say that if I were not otherwayes perswaded to believe it then by your proofs of it which are to be sought like a Needle in a Bottle of Hey I should doubt of the truth of it Sure you intended your proofs for your Romish Catholiques who you know read not Scripture But what needs all this ado this sensless urging of holy Scripture to prove that the Church is composed of men men of several Nations different tempers and interests But leaving this for your bruitish admirers to ruminate on I deny the consequence of your Major Proposition which is this That society that is framed and made up of men dispersed and spread over the world c. is infallible What Schoolboy that knows what infallibilitie is would assent to this Who knows not that Herod and Pontius Pilate the Jews and Romans men of several Nations of different tempers and interests yet conspired in resisting the Gospel and crucifying of Christ Are not the Mahometans men of several Nations yea more then true Christians possess different tempers and interests yet damnable erroneous What do you think of the 72. Interpreters Oyril Caled 3. pag 99. who were sent by Eleazer the Priest to Ptolemy to translate the Hebrew Text into Greek which they did without any discrepancie eirher in sense or words though kept asunder one from another Do you think they were infallible The Arian Church was composed of men dispersed over the world of different tempers and interests yet most dangerously erroneous Yet further when our Saviour suffered some of your Doctors say the Church was only in the blessed Virgin how would this your argument have proved the Churches infallibilitie at that time Your citation of Gen. 22. and Act. 1. and Ps 11. and Luk. 24. would have been to no purpose Once more shall not the Antichristian Church having these qualifications yet damnably err 2. Tell me what you understand by different tempers and interests Is it that some are godly some wicked some promoters of Christs interest some advancers of the Devils By your tempers mean you that some are hot others cold and a third sort lukewarm And by your different interests that some promote the Popes interest others the interest of Councils against the Pope This is your Churches composure but proves no infallibilitie 3. If the verie seeming contradictions in Scripture overthrow the Protestants Argument for its Divine Authoritie from its concent and harmonie which Vane in his late books labours to prove Why do not your real differences which Bellarmine declares to the world Vane's Lost Sheep p. 16. much more conclude against your infallibility But you seem to be sensible of the insufficient of your Argument and therefore before the end of your Section you flie to Gods assisting and strengthening of the Church whereby she becomes infallible But this I have answered before and avoid repetitions CHAP. V. Of the possibility of keeping the Commandments J Cannot but wonder what your method should be in this book and how this Chapter should come in next to the former When you had spoken so much of conformity of faith to the Church which you account as the first means of supernatural happiness what rational man but would have thought but that you should have said somthing of the conformity of hope to the Lords Prayer which you laid down as a second means and not have leapt to the third in such haste I could almost think that you are secretly proving adoration of that Roman Creature the Church of Rome for in your former Chapter you have been freeing her from Error here you free her from sin for if any be free from sin it must be the Roman Church And your next Chapter is about Religion or religious worship But seeing I have begun I will continue to follow you In this chapter you weave Penelope's Web what you say in the first and second Section you clearlie unsay in the third which will therefore help me in answering your former assertions You begin with exceeding confidence wondering that any can make question of the possibilitie of keeping the Commandments But the ground of this your confidence is misapplication of Scriptures as I shal through Gods assistance make it appear in my answers to you You urge Scripture examples and arguments The Scriptures you mainly urge are these Deut. 30. and Mat. 11.21 1 Deut. 30. They are not above but very neer us in our mouths and in our hearts to do them It s the Argument of your Donatists but makes not for you to prove possibilitie of perfect obedience that which it proves is the perspicuitie of the Law as to the Jews knowledg of it Vatab. Annot in Loc. That word which you render above is by Vatablus rendred Hid non est occultum à te It s not hidden from thee As if he should say to them you have no cause to plead ignorance of the Law seeing it s not hid from you but published to you being in your mouths i. e. in ore Levitarum c. in the mouths of the Levites who are of thy people that thou mayest receive from them those precepts that concern a good lâ—fe Id. ibid. and that they may teach them thee without delay This is more confirmed by his Marginal Note Praeciditur hic c. Here is cut off from the Jews all occasion of pleading their ignorance of the Law 2. These words do mainlie intend the words of Faith Rom. 10.8 i. e. the application of Christs righteousness to us by Faith Thus Lyranus explains it saying Lyran. Ostenditur c. Here is shewed the facility of that righteousness which is by the Faith of Christ which the Apostle opposeth to righteousness by the Law Phil. 3.9 Vatablus is verie clear in this point understanding it of that righteousness which is freely bestowed on Faith his words at large are these Si de sola lege c. If this were spoken only of the Law his argument were frivolous in that the Law of God is nothing easier to be done by being before our eyes then if it were far off Moses therefore in this Chapter as in the fourth doth commend unto the people Gods special good will as appears by that place of Paul Rom. 10 8. in bringing them under his tutorage which commendation could not be taken from the naked Law Nor doth it hinder that Moses preacheth of ordering their life according to the rule of the Law for the free righteousness of Faith hath the Spirit of regeneration accompanying it therefore one is
p. 152. An. 1531. p. 214. that he was non parum doctus not meanly learned The Epitaph this same Author mentions to be written upon Oecolampadius shews him to be a man of great learning the rest of them were men of good parts and indued with a Spirit of zeal for Gods truth besides with those gifts the present necessity did much concurre those who had the key of order neither entring in themselves nor admitting others into it who sought the advancement of Christs Kingdom 2. By meditation of others who received authority from the prime-giver thus the Protestant Bishops and Pastors after the Apostles time received their power from the hands of those whom the Apostles had before invested therewith yea if we speak of the first Protestant Bishops and Pastors they had their authority immediately from the hands of the Apostles The Waldenses who had Bishops and Pastors amongst them are supposed by some of your side to have continued from the Apostles upon this account are judged more pernicious to you than any other Sect. But to omit them Rainer de vit morib Waldens apud Vsher de aeccles Christ success stat p. 151. The first and ancients Fathers of the Church were Protestants in their Doctrines You have been often challenged to shew that the Bishops and Pastors of the Church for many hundred years after Christ were not Protestants but Papists maintaining the articles of your Late Creed It were easy to shew that those Doctrines of Protestants that you anathematize as heresies were with the ancient Fathers received truth thus were communion under both kinds prayer in a known tongue c. by your own confessions It s therefore false that the Apostles were dead and gone long before these had any being So then we have power and authority from Christ by meditation of others succeeding the Apostles But against this I have said you object thus Object By this is implyed a continuation of succession in the Protestant Bishops and Pastors ever since Christ and the Apostles it is not conceiveable any other way how power could be transmitted from one hand to another as is averred Answ 1. Here is not implyed a continuation of succession c. if thereby you understand such succession as admits of no interruption and that in particular Churches The succession of Pastors in particular Churches may cease through the violence and tyranny of enemies yet the violence being over there may be a reestablishments of the Ministry and that in succession to the former though the means of the new establishment be only the peoples choice which in some cases is most valued 2ly What if there hath been a continuation of succession in the Protestant Bishops c You answer They must then be visible for as much as it was their parts to preach the Word of God and administer the Sacraments Rep. I grant it who ever denyed that the Pastors of the Church were visible We hold indeed that sometimes they may lie hid from their enemies but they are visible to their friends though they be not seen in the streets of Rome they are visible in the mountains and woods c. when the Church is in the wilderness her Pastors are not visible in Cities and Courts 2. But what if visible You answer If visible they may be produced they ought to be produced they may because that power is vain and fictitious that is not reducible to act Mat. 5. They ought because Bishops and Pastors in case of controversie are to give an account of their calling Luke 7. as well to settle the wavering as to bend and make supple the stifnesse of stubborn misbeleevers 1 Pet. 3. Rep. 1. They might be visible in their times yet now not producible You know what rigor hath been used against Protestant books you burnt Wicklif's works and have extinguished others You deal with us as Doctor Featly shews as if a theif should steal our purse and make away our money and then demand of us what is become of our money if we had any such summes of money in what bag and where those bags are 2. There are ofâ— our Authors who have produced Protestant Bishops and Pastors i. e. such as have maintained Protestant Doctrine in every age since the Apostles 3. Whereas you say They may because that power is vain and fictitious that is not reducible to act Math. 5. 1. Your reason is a piece of nonsence and having no relation to what it should prove the question is about the power of naming them not the actual naming them if we had granted the power and denyed the act your Say had made somewhat for you as when you say the Commandments may be kept but cannot name one that keeps them it makes against you 2. It s a tautology your word Reducible denotes power not act so that it s as if you had said that power to act is vain and fictitious that is not in power to act 3. Your quotation is impertinent so far as I know I have searched Math. 5. and I find not any thing that may make for your purpose and I 'm sure your axiom is not there Sure you mistook Matthew for Aristotle 4. It s false that there is a necessity of producing Protestant Bishops and Pastors we look more at succession of doctrine then persons and think this sufficient to denominate us the true Church for which we have Tertullian's judgment in that book you even now cite affirming That those Churches which are able to produce none of the Apostles or Apostolical men for their first planters are notwithstanding Apostolical for consent of faith and consanguinity of doctrine When our Authors bring in Catalogues of Protestant Pastors it is to stop the mouths it may be of unreasonable men that demand them of us Your reason to prove this necessity is this Bishops and Pastors in case of controversie are to give an account of their calling For 1. It 's one thing for a Pastor to give an account of his calling and another thing to give an account of his predecessors If you were a Bishop in some City and were demanded of the lawfulness of your calling were the way to give them a beadrol of your predecessors in that City This would come short of giving satisfaction for they might be lawful Shepherds and you who succeed them no better than a ravening wolfe 2ly The Text Luke 7. proves nothing for you if you point at the account our Saviour gives of his calling to Johns Messengers v. 19 20. You shall find no naming or producing of his predecessors but of his Doctrine and works Go tell John saith he what ye have seen and heard So we when you demand how we prove our selves true Pastors send you to what you hear and see our Doctrines and works conformable to the Word of God the Law of Moses and Gospel of Christ 3ly Few that have a desire after truth and regard our Doctrine
be so evident in it self why do not all Papists agree with you but rather oppose you 2. Your reason is most ridiculous 't is this The true Church was before any false one therefore succession is proper to the true Church If you had been speaking of antiquity your argument would have had some force in it but antiquity and succession are different things constituting two distinct notes of your Church Antiquity properly points at the beginning of Churches succession only at the continuation of them But I think your mind was upon antiquity for in your fifth Section you purposely handle it and your meaning here is this that false Churches cannot derive their succession to the first foundation thereof which is Christ for you say There must be a stop and bar betwixt whatsoever counterfeit Church and Christ c. To which I answer 1. Heretical Churches as such cannot derive their succession from Christ or the Apostles for then they should derive their Heresies also But 2. Those Churches that are now or have lately been Heretical may yet derive a personal succession from Christ in as much as at first they were planted and established in the truth by the Apostles but have since degenerated Thus it is with the Greek Churches and your Roman Church and probably was with the Arians who though they wanted doctrinal succession yet might have personal there being Bishops of note who maintained that Heresie In the former regard its true which you say that the Arian derivation climbeth no further then Arius there 's a great difference betwixt succession of Doctrines and persons though you seem to take no notice of it Lastly you return to the Protestant Church and whereas it s said There have been named in several ages the Albigenses the Apostolici Wickliff Hus. You Answer None of these were Protestants c. Rep. 1. Some of these were Protestants the Albigenses otherwise called Waldenses were Protestants Parsons confesseth that they devised and framed out of Scripture the whole platform of the Protestant Gospel Pars 3. Con. part 3. Hist of France Book 1. pag. 15. edit an 1595. Id. p. 67. A French Historian writes thus of them Who in spite of all the Potentates in Christendom sowed about the year 1100. and even since their Doctrine smally differing from the Protestants at this day For the further clearing of this take this extract of their confession of Faith which they delivered to Francis 1. Of France about the year 1540. and which they said was taught unto them ever since the year 1200. It contained the Articles of God the Father Creator of all things of the Son advâ—cate and Intercessor for mankind of the Holy Ghost Comforter and Teacher of the Truth of the Church which they said to be assembled of all the chosen having Jâ—sus Christ for Head of Ministers of the Maâ—istrate whom they confessed ordained of God to punish Malefactors and defend the good to whom it sufficeth not only to carry honor but also to pay Taxes and Imposts without acception of state whatsoever and that at the example of Christ who did likewise practice it Of Baptism which they maintained to be a visible and extenor sign represeâ—ting unto us the Regenerati n of the Spirit and Mortification of the Members Of the Lords Supper which they hold for a thanksgiving and commemora ion of the benefit received by Christ Of Marriage which they say was not forbidden to any by h w much it was Holy and ordained oâ— God Of good work wherâ—in they ought to imploy themselves continually â—f Mans tradition which they ought to shun protesting in Sums that the Rule of their Faith was the Old and New Testament and that they believed all which was contained in the Apostles Creed This positive Confession I have taken verbatim out of the French Historian to which I may add a Negative one out of Aeneas Silvius and others viz. they held that the Bishop of Rome was not above other Bishops That prayers for the dead and Purgatory were devised by the Priests for their own gain That the Images of God and Saints were to be defaced that confirmation and extream unction were no Sacraments That it is vain to pray to the Saints in Heaven since they cannot help us That auricular confession was a trifling thing That it was not meritorious to keep set Fasts of the Church and that such a set number of Canonical hours in praying was vain That Oyl and Chrism were not to be used in Baptism That the Church of Rome was not the Holy Church nor Spouse of Christ but Babylon the mother of Abominations If you desire to see more of them read Calverii Epitom Historian page 555. where you have a large Catalogue of them and now let the reader judge whether they were Protestants or no. But you object two things to prove that they were not Protestants 1. They hold not in all points with them For this you cite divers Authors But I answer 1. I confesse the Authors you mention do severally attribute divers errors to them but these witnesses agree not amongst themselves Guido Carmelita chargeth them with saying that Masse is to be said once only every year Aeneas Silvius contrarily saith that they hold that the Priest may consecrate at any time and minister to them that require it The same Guido saith they held that the words of consecration must be no other but the Pater noster seven times said over the bread but Aeneas Sylvius Antonius and Luxemburg say the contrary affirming that they thought it sufficient to speak the Sacramental words only Prateolus chargeth them with Manicheisme but Reinerus the French Historian and others free them from it 2. Their confessions shew that there is very small difference betwixt them and the Protestants 3. Though they should not hold in all points with Protestants yet they might be Protestants perfect complyance is not absolutely necessary to constitute a person a member of the Church Many of the members of the Church of Rome Corinth Galatia c. did not agree in all points with those Churches yet were members of them The French Papists go under the name of Catholiques yet agree not in all points with the Church of Rome for they deny the Pope to be above a general Council and that the Council of Trent was Oecumenical and Lawfull The books of many named Catholiques have been censured for unsound speeches and because they have not held in all points with your Churh yet are Catholiques still The Apostle supposeth that though those who are perfect do walk by the same rule yet some may be otherwise minded Phil. 3.15 which the Rhemists in their note on that place clearly grant 2. You object that they hold not in all points with themselves Answ 1. We are beholding to you for your good opinion of Protestants the argu-is this They that hold not in all points with themselves are not Protestants The Waldenses hold not
in all points with themselves therefore are not Protestants The ground of your Major must needs be this Protestants hold in all points with themselves We grant and thankfully accept of your Major proposition together with its foundation and desire you would remember it when you come to tell us of our divisions 2. For your Minor 1. It s verified of their adversaries the Authors you mention as I have particularly shewed 2. There is reason to think they held at least in all main points with themselves 1. Because of the Testimony of Rainerus who saith they believe rightly concerning God and all other articles of the Creed 2. because they were men of good parts and very pious 3. Because your assertion of their dissent is only general When you shew the particulars I shall endeavour their vindication 2. You answer supposing them Protestants There was a great distance between them and the Apostles in which they could not be mentioned forasmuch as they were not begun or were quite extinct Answ 1. If you speak of them as Waldenses that is particular persons followers of Waldus I grant there was a distance betwixt them and the Apostles Thus if you consider of your present Pope it s as true that he is none of Peters successor there being a great distance between him and the Apostle Peter in which he could not be mentioned forasmuch as he was not then in being But 2. If you speak of them as to their profession of the reformed Religion not confining your speech to those particular persons but extending to all that professed the same Religion with them then there is no distance between them and the Apostles as I shall shew when I come to your fourth Shape 3. What you mean by their being quite extinct I know not sure you do not take them to be Jewish heretiques that were extinct before the Apostles and let me tell you that after their rise notwithstanding the fury of Papists which brought many miseries upon them they could never be extinct as the French Historian above mentioned shews But thus much for your first Shape SHAPE II. LUther descended from Catholiques Catholiques from the Apostles therefore Protestants had their Original from the Apostles they deriving themselves uninterruptedly from Luther To this you answer Answ Protestants derivation from Luther is frivolous and of no weight Luther wanting Episcopal authority without which all ordinations are null and frustrate by the confessions of the cheif Protestants themselves See Saravia Sutcliffe Bilson Andrewes White Mason Mountague Hall and others Rep. 1. Protestants derivation from Luther is of weight for any thing you do say against it It s most false that without Episcopal authority all ordinations are null and frustrate For 1. Ordination it self is not of absolute necessity for the constitution of a Pastor In some cases a man may preach the Word without it So did Origen whose practise was justified by divers Bishops Cameron fully asserts this Euseb Eccl. Hist l. 6. c. 20. Cam. Myroth in Eph. 4.11 that private men without formal ordination may teach and feed others with the Word of God 2. Supposing ordination to be of absolute necessity yet that it must be done by Episcopal authority as distinct from Presbyterial is not absolutely necessary so as that it should be null and frustrate without it nor are there any Protestants that I know of that affirms this with you not those who are named by you Sutcliffe one of them speaking of our first reformers hath these words Neither is it material that the first Preachers of the Gospel in these Countries were not Bishops Sutc. review of Kell Survey c. 1. p. 5. and so called as it was in England for suppose no Bishop would have renounced the heresies of Popery nor have taught sincerely should not inferior Ministers teach truth and Ordain other Teachers after them Furthermore they wanted nothing of true Bishops but the Name and Title Finally the right and imposition of hands by such as are called Bishops is not so necessary but that in a defection of Bishops of a Nation and in case of other extream necessity Ministers may lawfully be ordained by other Ministers And he gives divers reasons for it The rest of them are of the same judgment to whom we may add Dr. Prideaux and Dr. Field who shews that not only Protestants Prid. falac controv Theol. loc 4. sec 3. q. 2. Field of the Ch. book 3. c. 39. but Papists in former times were of opinion that in some cases and at some times Presbiters may give Orders and that their ordinations are of force and he further shews that your Suffragens who are but Presbiters do give Orders All judicious Protestants have honourable thoughts of the reformed Churches beyond Seas and of their Ministry though they want Episcopal ordination See a Book of Master Baxter But you bring us in objecting Luther received Episcopal power immediatly from God To which you answer Answ Such a power being extraordinary is always accompanied with that of Miracles as appeared in Moses Exod. 3. And the Apostles Act. 2 14. Luther never wrought Miracle Rep. For any thing I see this might have made another Shape for its independent on this you lead us as the Devil our Saviour into the Wildernesse to be tempted but as he evaded the Devils so we shall do your temptations We say then 1. A power received immediately from God is not always accompanied with that of Miracles The Prophets were caled immediately by God so was John the Baptist and probably Phillip the Deacon Act. 8.14 and the men of Cyprus and Cyrene Act. 11 Yet all of these were not invested with power of Miracles It was so with our Reformers they did not work Miracles nor as you say did pretend to that gift Yet had they sufficient testimonies of their calling as their true Evangelical Doctrine seconded with the holiness of their lives and the wonderfull success of their Preaching These did evidence their divine calling You object Luther's drawing so many after him maugre the Pope Emperor and other Potentates shews only a strange itching in men after novelties and pronenesse to libertinage Arius in a shorter space led away far more Answ 1. I speak not of his successe only or by it self but as accompanied with truth of Doctrine and an holy life and this doth evidence a lawfully called Pastor Thus it was not with Arius or any other heretiques who have been erroneous in their Doctrine and profane in their lives or else successes or if they have had successe they have but been short lived with it none of which can be affirmed of Luther or his adherents 2. I deny that Arius was more succesfull than Luther there is a great disproportion betwixt them herein For 1. Arius had not that opposition that Luther had Arius's opposers were no inquisitors nor cruel Emperors nor cursing Popes nor cut-throat Jesuites but a milde Emperour and some
Tradition Hence it was that some Jesuits of Ratisbone asserted it to be an Article of Faith That Toby's dog wagged his tail and your self say page 65. All points of Faith being equally founded on Gods Revelation are fundamentall and substantiall which Revelation is by the Word or Tradition Now I conceive you will at least urge Tradition for Gods Predetermination and the Virgins impeccable or sinless Conception 2. The determination of your Church in some Councell or by some Pope Extrao Commun l. 3. tit 12. c. 2. apud Azor. part 2. lib. 1. c. 21. Bin Tom. 4. p. 743. Now it s most evident that Sixtus the Fourth did decree them Hereticks who affirmed the Virgin Mary to be conceived in sin Concil Trin. sess 5. Concil Basil sess 36. apud Bin. though I deny not but he also disallowed the preaching of her purity because of the too great zeal in the Preachers of it Upon this decree of Sixtus The Councell of Trent having declared the universality of Originall sin in regard of persons doth make a formall exception of the Virgin Mary But before either that Pope or Councell The Councell of Basil is most clear for it decreeing it to be A pious Doctrine and agreable to Ecclesiasticall worship the Catholick Faith right reason and the Holy Scriptures and that it shall not be lawfull for any one to preach or teach any thing contrary to it nor is the other point of lesser concernment than this 2. Those that hold the opinions of the Dominicans are by you counted Hereticks for the former opinion they are judged to make God the Author of sin with Florinus or being a force upon the will with Origen for these are the inferences you raise from our Doctrine of Predetermination nor are you more charitable to us in regard of the other opinion of the Virgins Conception See the above mentioned Constitutions of Sixtus the Fourth where he brands the Dominicans with Heresie now Heresie is a rejection not of a mere opinion but of a point of Faith 3. If they be onely School nicities why do your Priests so much instill at least the latter of them into simple peoples ears as a matter of Faith why do they injoyn the observation of an holy day for her immaculate Conception Why doe they indanger Christs honour by making his mother equall with him in impeccability and that by a School nicitie which if such might be well rejected Secondly you Answer It is as untrue that generall and approved Councells have contradicted one another in matters of Faith or oecumenicall Decrees they have indeed talked and discoursed contrary yea later Counsels have altered and changed Lawes and Constitutions of Government made and established by former but this only proves that Counsels admit a liberty and freedom to debate matters of Religion and that what was once good and convenient may prove afterwards circumstances varying bad and inconvenient which no way prejudiceth belief Reply 1. You speak something fearfully as if you were afraid to lie yet would not prejudice your Church by acknowledging the truth You say They have talked and discoursed contrary and that because They havâ— freedome to debate matters of Religion yet they do not contradict one another in matters of Faith Here is strange stuffe yet may well serve a credulous Papist But tell me if the determinations of former Councells be unalterable as to Religion as it must be if they be infallible How come later Councells to have a liberty to debate those matters which have formerly been determined or to discourse and talk contrary to them Is it because former Decrees are obscure or later Councels ignorant or that these later Councels meet oneâ—y to see who is the best disputant amongst them Nay rather according to truth is it not in order to the disquisition of truth and to a Decree contrary to former Decrees if they be found faulty this seems granted by a Councel which saith That the Church doth propound divers Concil Senen apud Bin. Tò 4. part 2. pag. 150. and sometimes contrary decrees It cannot be only in order to ratification of the former decree for the former Councels infallibility is sufficient for that Or if the succeeding Councels ratification were useful it ought to be given without talking and discoursing contrary meerly upon the former debate and establishment So then their talk is either vain jangling to no purpose or it tends to alteration and amendment of that which hath been formerly decreed according to Augustines speech mentioned by you That often the precedent general Councels are mended by the following But you say They have altered and changed Laws and constitutions of Governments made and established by former and a little after Councels admit a liberty to debate matters of religion and that what was once goâ—d and convenient may prove afterwards circumstances varying bad and inconvenient Reply 1. If by Constitutions of Government you understand Government it self this will not agree with what you said against Calvin That Christians generally maintained and professed that the Government of the Church was unalterable by any mortal But if you mean onely such rules as concern the Execution of Government I say the alterations made by Councels have not been only of these nor does Augustin intend such things as will appear to any that considers the place you cite for it a Book of his against the Donatists in which his main drift is to prove against them that Baptisme was but to be administred once Now whereas the Donatists objected that Cyprian and the Bishops of Africk in a Councell did determine the lawfulnesse of re-baptization Augustine answers That the Scriptures cannot be doubted of but the writings of Bishops may be reprehended by others more prudent yea Provincial Councels must give way to General and the former general Councels themselves may be amended by the latter 2. It s most evident that the Alterations of succeeding Councels have been about matters of faith I suppose these are matters of faith 1. The Popes Supremacy his universal Headship and Lordship over other Patriarcks and Councels Bellarmine calls this one main pillar of Catholick Religion and one of the chiefe Heads of your faith for this you urge Councels yet there are many Councels contradict this as Concil Carthag 3. Can. 26. Concil Nic. 1. Can. 6. Concil Constantin 3. Can. 36. Concil Basil Sess 2. Where it is decreed that the Pope ought to be obedient to the Councel which decree hath beene freely imbraced and maintained by the French Papists against the Trentists 2. Communion under one kind is decreed by your latest Councels yet Cassander tells us that Communion in both kinds was by our Lords institution Apostolical tradition publick and perpetual custome of all times and further was confirmed by the Decrees of Popes and Councels 3. Worship of Images is established by later Councels yet the Councel of Eliberis Can. 36 and the seventh General Councel of