naughtinesse of the argument We graunt that to iudge aright of Ecclesiasticall matters is a great gift of God but that the iudgemeÌ„t of ecclesiasticall matters is onelie to be restrained to binding and losing as you here define what you meane by iudging in matters of faith this is a manifest falsehood True it is that binding and losing can not rightly be withoute iudgement nor withoute right iudgement and therefore your Pope and you doe erre so often herein both binding that that should be losed and losing that that should be bound errante claue as ye terme it your key erring and erring also not onely in things to be bounde or losed but in the power it selfe of binding losing too Yet notwithstanding binding and losing and the iudgement requisite in binding and losing are two distinct and seueral things and iudgement reacheth furder to other things also euen in the Priest himselfe besides the Princes iudgement And therefore as this definition of iudgement in matters of faith is preposterously brought in for ye oughte before to haue defined what ye ment by iudgemente so is it false for other matters of faithe require iudgement besides binding and losing Now where you say this power commeth not of the principles of our corrupt nature but of the free mercie of God you say truth But that ye adde the mercie of God is made manifest vnder the time of the newe testament partlye by the law written partly not written is spoken ambiguously For that Princes iudged in matters of faith was also made manifest in the olde Testament but that Princes haue power to binde and lose we graunt is neither manifest nor couert neither in the olde or newe As for the newe lawe to be deuided into written and not written is another error and impertinent to this question Your vnwritten lawe of the new Testament we stand not vpon But to affirme that by neither way written or vnwritten no power is giuen to kings in Ecclesiasticall matters that we denie and your self haue rather confuted it thaÌ„ hither to confirmed it But to confirme it ye bring out this reason Neither were thene at the beginning any Christian Kings to whom Christ shoulde haue committed any power nor the Apostles gaue any rule according where vnto the kings should iudge of Ecclesiasticall causes That there were no Christian kings then is not materiall For by this rule they should be no defenders of the faith neither bicause Princes were not theÌ„ defenders of it But that the Apostles gaue no rule whereby they should iudge is false For whosoeuer should iudge shuld iudge by gods word and this rule Christ and his Apostles gaue in generall But that Princes mighte iudge is both proued from the olde Testament and by the text that M. Saunders himselfe citeth out of the new yea by that he saith immediatly For if any man say kings are appointed iudges in a cause of the faith only bicause by Baptisme they are made spiritual meÌ„ who iudge all things and the spirites do trie those things that are of God this in dede I graunt to be true in the kynde and maner of the priuate but not of the publique iudgement For it is another thing when thou art a member of the Catholike Church nor preferrest thy selfe before thy pastours what is necessarie for thee priuately to Iudge and this the vnction teacheth and another thing to take vpon thee power to teache others and to prescribe to thy Pastors what they ought to do or teache when thou art not called to the publique ministerie of the Church as Aaron was We know there is a difference betwéen priuate and publique Iudgement But that this place of S. Paule The spirituall man Iudgeth all things is only to be vnderstoode of prinate Iudgement is but the priuate iudgement of M. Saunders But it is well that he graunteth priuate iudgement to euery Christian man Neither is it any reason then it shuld be debarred irom any Christian Princes neither is it anye reason that the Prince although in his priuate Iudgement â–ª rightly iudging a matter of faithe to be true shoulde not approue set forth the same publiquely by his princely authoritie And so his priuate Iudgement directs his publique Iudgement For a Prince is not only a priuate man but a publique man also not that he may doe all things of his owne priuate or publique Iudgement nor take vpon him the publique ministerie of the pastour in teaching being not called as Aaron was for this is not ascribed to the Prince bicause he giueth a publique Iudgement in respect he is a publique person but his Iudgement is a publique approbation and establishing of that that is alreadie by others Iudgement â–ª iudged to whome the discussing appertaineth In which discussing althoughe the godly learned clergie being called as Aaron was haue the greatest skill and charge of Iudgement yet the lay men suche as are also learned and godly haue a publique Iudgement too Or else why saith Panormitane we shoulde more beleue a lay man alleaging scripture than the whole councell besides but nowe the truth being once founde out by these learned Iudgements the Princes publique Iudgement as it called them together as it gaue them their charge so it prescribeth what the pastors ought to doe and teache therin without any preiudice to the spirituall pastors Iudgement in the function of his doing and teaching Now hauing thus set downe his owne assertions he will enter on the other part to confute our obiections And first he alleageth this reason of the protestantes In all the olde Testamente we sée gouernors and Kings both to haue prescribed to the priests what they ought to doe in ecclesiasticall matters and also to haue remoued them froÌ„ the ministerie that haue negligently done their dutie To this obiecton M. Saunders answere is this that this reason holdes not from the olde Testament to the new If this came so to passe in the olde Testament saith he yet no reason shuld compell that the same shuld be so in the new Testament sith the reason of the eccl. gouernment is changed And are you changed too M. Saunders that saide before after say make all your booke of it that the ecclesiastical kind of gouernment hath bene alwayes one and that is a viâ—…ble Monarchie euen from Adam to Pope Pius â–ª 5. and said that if the gouernement be changed the Churche must needes be changed tâ—…o and made the gouernement of the olde Testament to be a figure of the new But now that you are beaten with your owne arguments you say they hold not by reason the ecclesiasticall gouernment is changed But I see Maister SauÌ„ders you woulde deale with vs as the riche man dealt with his poore neighbor When the poore maÌ„ complained saying I beseeche your worship be good vnto me for my Cowe hath goared your Bull. What hath he quoth the riche maÌ„
the Bishops dealing which is twofolde the former for procéeding in his matters out of order Hither good Reader sayth Master Stapleton Master Horne althoughe vntruely yet hath hee somewhat orderly proceeded But in that which followeth vntill we come to the. 20. leafe beside most impudent and shamefull lyes wherewith he woulde deface master Feckenham he prosecuteth his matter so confusedly and vnorderly leaping in and out I cannot tell howe nor whether that I verily thinke that his wittes were not his owne being perchaunce encombred with some his domesticall affayres at home that he could not gather theÌ„ togither or that he the lesse passed what an hodge potch he made of his doings thinking which is like that his fellowes Protestantes woulde take all thinges in good gree knowing that poore master Feckenham was shutre vp close ynough from all aunswering And thinking that no Catholike else would take vpon him to answere to his lewd booke To that ye beginne with master Stapleton to chalenge the Bishop for vntruth yea most impudent and shamelesse lies till ye name them and so proue them the best answere thereto is to giue it a wispe and place it in your common places of scoldes blacke rhetorike and so let it alone As for the Bishops vnorderly proceding howbeit ye confesse that hitherto he hath somewhat orderlike proceded in that which foloweth ye say he prosecuteth his matters so confusedly c. that you thinke his wittes were not his owne Were not your wittes ouermuch your owne M. Stap. you woulde neuer wittingly haue let your witte cast forth such vnwittie and vnorderly speaches to your better But I will say somewhat yet more gentlier of you that I verily think herein your wâ—…ts were altogither your owne and therfore ye are the more to be borne withall Otherwise if your wittes had taken the aduice of some other of your confederates wittes they woulde perchaunce haue counselled you more wittily not to accuse any of such fowle confusion disorder leaping in and out and making an hodge potch and not tell at al wherein he confoundeth or disordreth his matter And they woulde peraduenture withall haue aduised you to marke this rule your selfe and to beware that you alleage euery thing in his proper place not to wrappe vp in a clutter so many things vnder one nor to make one thing to séeme so many Not to preuent your matter so oft before it come nor to repeate it so often being â—…ast all to encrease your volume Many other things about your coÌ„mon places they would perhaps haue tolde you if ye had taken some of their wits to counsel and not to much haue trusted on your owne they would at the least haue charged you not to chalenge another for wit your self therin being nothing comparable in al wise mens iudgements euen of your own side that know both him and you least while ye stande so much on witte ye shewe your selfe not so wise as wittie not yet so wittie as your selfe wéene ye bée or your friendes and I for my part woulde wishe ye were so that ye employed it better than ye do The coniectures that ye gather of his disorder that he was encombred with some his domesticall affayres at home that he thought his fellowes protestants would take all things in good gree That M. Feckenham was shut vp close ynough from answering That he thought no Catholike else woulde take vpon him to answere his lewde booke All these are nothing else but the lewde imaginations which that wittie pate of yours hath maliciously conceyued M. Stay. The thirde quarrell is That the Bishoppe procéedeth not nowe to the newe Testament I had thought Master Horne say you that from the olde Testament yee woulde haue gone to the newe Testament and would haue laboured to haue established your matters thereby belike the worlde goeth verie harde with you in that behalfe that yee doe not so sauing that here and there yee iumble in a testimonye or two I can not tell howe but howe vnhandesomelye and from the purpose yea agaynste youre owne selfe that I woâ—…e well and ye shall anon heare of it also Yea well sayde Master Stapleton and tell him so to let him heare of it throughly both here and there to for so you shall the better encrease your Counterblast But will ye tell it him anon in verie déede Then I pray you where and howe master Stapleton will you tell it him Where euen here and there where he iumbleth in a testimonie or two I can not tell howe Can ye not tell how master Stapleton he alleageth them then I thinke ye will answere them ye can not tell how full vnhandsomly and from the purpose can ye tell what Well I had thought master Stapleton your wits being your owne they had bene more circumspect than I perceiue they be And that your memory could haue made one lye to haue hanged better to another For howe hanges thys togither ye will answere him where here and there he iumbleth in a testimonie or two out of the newe Testament and that ye say I had thought master Horne from the old Testament ye would haue gone to the newe Testament and would haue laboured to haue established your matters therby belike the worlde goeth very harde with you in that behalfe that ye do not so When your selfe euen in the next words confesse that he dothe so out of the new Testament also Heere and there say you he iumbleth in a testimony or two Wherfore doth he this but to labour to establish his matters therby Tushe say you he dothe it but heere and there a testimonie or two Had it bene but one testimonie M. Stap. it had bene inough to proue you a lyer nor the truthe nor force of the truth consisteth in numbers of testimonies one true testimonie were inough had he no more But ye confesse he had a testimonie or two yea and that here and there a testimonie or two and I thinke when ye cast your account there will be founde more than thrée or foure so agayne proue your selfe a lyer But say you he doth bâ—…t iumble them in Howsoeuer he iumble them in M. St. beware you they tuÌ„ble not out your cause for the iumbling in of theÌ„ hath proued you already to haue muÌ„bled vp a lye a contrâ—…tion to your owne tals But ye say he did it ye can not tell howe I thinke the same M. St. And therfore as I sayde before ye coulde not tel how ye answered nor how ye contraried your selfe For howsoeuer he did it he did therin go from the old testament to the new testament which you both denie graunt ye can neither tell how nor where nor what And therfore to conclude with your owne words belike the world goeth very hard with you in that behalfe For shame M. Sta. vpbraide not their wits vnto others so much ouerthâ—…te your own The seconde part is the clearing of M. Feckenham to
in déede follow M. Sta. but it doth not alwayes followe â–ª A man may refuse manifest proufes of the old Testament and yet graunt such things besides that he may be concluded yea by his owne graunt â–ª And so is M. Feckenham here concluded as graunting the newe Testament the Councels and Fathers For since al these alleage he proufes of the old Testament he is forced by conclusioÌ„ of necessarie consequence to graunt also to the old Testament Except he be as peeuish as the Donatistes that granted thus much also and yet refused the manifest proufes and examples of the old Testament Although their own péeuishnesse conuinced theÌ„ but still they stoode on the bare wordes as you do and refused inclusiue proufes followed they neuer so necessarily And so did your selfe before require the Bare title of this supremacie to be shewed in the exaÌ„ples of the old Testament elâ—… you reiect the exaÌ„ples agrée they neuer so much in matter But now contrary ye say M. Feckenham doth allow and affirme the proufes of the old Testament bicause they may be included in those pointes that he alleageth but he would be loath they should be included as thankes be to God they be and so Uolens uolens beyonde his expectation is enforced with them But what is this to excuse him more thaÌ„ the Donatists if he had not of set purpose slonke from the manifest proufe examples of the old Testament for otherwise he might as soone haue expresly named the old Testament as he expresly named the new And so should he haue gone directly simply to worke not indirectly with a Circumquaque haue referred the old Testament to such inclusions as you here would shake off the matter withall chiefly since the old Testament hauing no included but expresse proufes is so expresly vrged of vs And yet if he would haue included the old Testament as you say vnder the name of the new Testament why specifieth he the one so plaine not the other at all if he did it for breuitie he might most briefly haue saide the Scriptures which worde had comprehended included both so had he shewed that he allowed the proufes of the old Testament also Ha M. Stapl. Ueritas non querit angulos The truth seekes no inclusiue corners goe plainly man to worke for very shame For yet for all your inclusions here to colour the matter in other places where this is not layde vnto your charge both your selfe and M. Dorman quite excludeth the examples of the old Testament from the new as not fit paterns for Princes to followe Doing herein what pretences so euer you here include euen as M. Feckenham dothe and the Donatistes did before And that Master Feckenham did no other but euen of purpose conceale the old Testamentes examples as foreseing that they made against him I will aske no better witnesse than your owne selfe Master Stapleton that by all these couerte inclusions go aboute to excuse him But when ye can not make any good excuse in conclusion yea in your next wordes ye bewray all the matter ye could hold it no lenger for your life blabbe it wist and out it must And surely say you wise men vse not greatly to shew that maketh against them but most for them Holde your hande from the booke M. St. ye neuer saide truer worde in all your life Ye hitte the pricke there in déede and tell the very cause why he concealed the name of the old Testament and shewed it not in his large and ample offer Bicause say you wise men surely vse not greatly to shew that maketh against them but most for them but M. Feckenham surely is a wise man Ergo he sheweth not in his offer the name of the old Testament bicause the proufes thereof make against him but onely put the name of the new Testament bicause he thought that made moste for him True Master Stapl. thus do the children of this world beyng wiser in their generations than the childreÌ„ of light not shewe â–ª as ye say but conceale the truthe of God bicause they sée it maketh agaynst them But herein M. St. for all your iolie witte and wisedome that ye vaunte vppon so often your wisdome ouershot it selfe Surely ye did not like one of these wise men but rather like one of the wise men of Gotham God turning your wisedome into folly that confesse those examples and proufes to make against M. Feckenham or at least wise that he so feared and therefore he sheweth not the name of the old Testament but concealeth it And thus while your drift is to proue that he shifteth not off those proufes and examples you confesse that he of very purpose not minding as ye saide before to include them but to exclude them leaueth them out and sheweth them not but shifteth them of and that of a shamefull purpose only bicause they make against him Where if he had any sparke of truth and conscience he would not hide that in Gods worde that maketh against him But perceyuing that those prouses make against him would withall perceiue him self to be in a manifest errour and neuer let worldly wisedome so ouercome him that he should be ashamed openly to confesse that he striueth against the truth And you M. Stapleton had ye any grace confessing the truth to be against him except ye be a very Manichee that set the old Testament against the newe would perceyue that if the old were against him then the newe were also against him and would euen here hurle away the penne that should defende such a shifter off and hider of the truthe against your conscience So farre would ye be from this impudencie to write that he affirmeth and comprehendeth that which of wisedome as ye call it he purposely concealeth and that he alloweth that which he hides as making against him Whiche is no point of wisedome M. Stapleton but rather of starke follie and méere contradiction to it selfe and to all your former excuses And thus speaking of wise men to shewe your selfe in the number ye speake against him whome ye are hyred and labour to defende ye speake against your selfe yea against your cause and all So doth God make them shew their owne shame that wittingly will be hyred with Balaam to resist his open truth Confusi sunt sapientes c. The wise men are confounded sayth the Lord they shal be astonied and taken for lo they haue cast out the word of the Lorde what wisdome can be among them And so hath God here infatuate M. St. that wheÌ„ he hath bewrayed the very cause why M. Feck shewed not in his offer the name of the old TestameÌ„t so wel as of the new to be bicause he thought it made agaynst him therefore did like a wise man to leaue it out he concludeth most foâ—…dly euen the quite contrarie VVherfore sayth he it is incredible that M. Feck should once imagine any
common Crede only nowe I note but these your shamefull omissions and that not once nor twice but thrice and that in principall matters in controuersie and all in reciting euen the common Creede which almost euery childe with vs of any discretion thankes be to God can say without booke and you master Stapleton a shorne priest a Bacheler of law a student in diuinitie a writer of Louaine a translator of bookes a doctours proctour a defender of a quondam Abbot one that not onely will teache and controll all other but crake that ye will bring a Bishop to his Cathechisme and teache him his Créede and cannot say the common Creede aright your selfe but make so many scapes surely and ye were a boy againe in Winchester schole ye were well worthie so many lashes as ye haue left out wordes and as well layde on as the wordes are weightie and materiall Ye may escape the lashes nowe ye be adultus but and ye were a doltus to ye can not escape the shame On the other part if ye say ye left these articles out of purpose and not of such truandly ignorance euen where of purpose ye went aboute to leaue out no article and yet left oute so manye howe was not then your witting purpose euen a wilfull refusall of those articles Whereby howe many herelies ye bewrappe your selfe withall well nigh euery man may perceyue and iudge And thus with too narrow sitting of small matters in other men for the defence of M. Feckenham ye haue not onely not hurte thē nor helped him any thing but brought your selfe into the same and greater briers than he was in and can not ridde your handes of them either without blemishe of many Heresies for wilfull omitting such weighty matters and that so nere points in controuersie forseing that those articles were against your errours or els not to presse ye so sore yet at the least to impute all to ignorance or retchelesse foreslouth it is a foule fault in so great a student and the greater foyle the more ye take vppon you to controll the Apologie of so many excellent learned and famous men and will teache the Bishop his Catechisme and your selfe can not your Créede If M. Feckenham heare of this his defenders foyle he will perchaunce of pitie or charitie pray for you and haue you in his Pater noster that God would make ye a better scholler or a wiser man but and he would followe mine aduice ye shoulde neuer come into his Créede since ye can not say your owne Now M. Stapl. crie out and yell vppon vs that we be Heretikes so loude as ye can if for very shame ye can open your mouth at all Ye say ye cā do it to vs that with more colourable matter than we haue either to make M. Feckenham a Donatiste or that our Apologie hath to make that worthie and learned cardinall Hosius a Swenkfeldian I thinke so euen in déede M. St. that ye may crie out vppon vs with more colourable matter For other matter than colourable to crie out vppon vs for Heretikes haue ye none But since it is but your painted colours and not any matter at all in déede the more ye crie out the more ye shew your shame Cardinall Hosius whome ye so much commende the matter wherwith he is charged to be a Swenkfeldian or worse than a Swēkfeldian is no colourable matter but apparant confessed by him selfe And if ye make M. Feckenhams case to be such as his ye haue well helpen him vp M. St. then is this no colourable matter that he is charged with to be herein a Donatiste but a very plaine and true matter And then is his case worse than it was before ▪ when he of set purpose thinking to play a wisemans parte left out the old Testaments proufes and therein shewed him selfe a Donatiste doth also with Hosius deface and blaspheme both old and newe Testament and therein shewe him selfe a Swenkfeldian also And thus the furder ye wade to saue M. Feckenham your client from the spotte of one Heresie ye not onely helpe him nothing therein but go nere to drawe him into an other It is best therefore M. Stapleton both for him and for your self let him craule out him selfe so well as he can for ye do hetherto but hinder him and bemyre your selfe Which when at length belike ye beginne to perceyue Neither say you do we greatly passe how the Donatistes in this point demeaned them selues and whether they openly or priuily shunned proufes brought and deduced out of the old Testament Ye should haue told vs thus much before M. St. and not al this while to haue laboured so earnestly in and out with all these shiftes onely for obiecting this practise of the Donatists to M. Feckenhā to remoue the Bishops motiues which now ye sée ye can not do you say ye greatly passe not how the Donatists in this point demeaned them selues And I am euen of the same opinion also that ye greatly passe not of it But if ye tooke the Donatistes to be Heretikes in déede and had not a certaine affinitie with them ye would not thus after all your sturre relent to the accusation say ye passe not how the Donatistes in this point demeaned them selues since you be charged with their demeanour in this point Which what is it els than to say ye paste not in this pointe whether ye be Donatistes or no. If ye had a good zeale to the truth or your conscience were cléere of this crime ye would rather haue saide with Hierome Errare possum Hereticus esse nolo Erre I may but I will not be an Heretike As therefore ye confessed right now that all your defence hitherto hath bene but colourable matter so now ye care not in this pointe whether ye be culpable or no. Yea you go about to defende and cléere the Donatistes and to post off this accusation to the Manichées For what meane ye els to say In deede the Manichees denied the Authoritie of the bookes of the old law and Testament which I reade not of the Donatistes Yea in the very same booke and chapter by you alleaged Petilian him selfe taketh his proufe against the Catholikes out of the old Testament which you know could serue him in litle steede if he him selfe did reiect such kinde of Euidences This nowe shall suffice for this branche to purge M. Feckenham that he is no Donatist or Heretike otherwise How well all this suffiseth to M. Feckenh purgation either of the Donatistes heresie or rather of blemishing him with other Heresies and how good a compurgatour you haue bene or rather a partaker of his Heresies we must both referre to the Reader M. Stapleton as iudge in his cōscience to cast or aquitte M. Feckenhā herein Ye thinke by cleering the Donatistes of this obiection ye haue cléered withall M. Feckenham But while ye go aboute to cléere them ye accuse S.
haue thought they had done God good seruice too so that he would haue maintayned them And do not you euen so what els maketh ye crie vpon the Princes beyond the seas with all kinde of torments to destroy the Protestants If Princes would aduise them selues or euer they beléeued you so lightly and would not destroy their subiects till they had sit in iudgmâ—…t heard discussed both parties causes throughly ye would not be halfe so hastie Ye would then crie to the contrarie that you must only be iudges they must onely beleue you strike onely them whom you shall bidde them strike Contrarywise where the Princes espying your falshood forsake your errours and sette out euen very milde lawes against you then ye change your coppie and crie out euery thing is extreme crueltie ye are too too sore handled and oppressed then ye extoll beyonde the moone lenitie and sufferance and winche like a gald horse at the least thing that toucheth you And thus euery way do you still shew your selues to be the very Donatistes Now that ye haue as you conceyue with your selfe giuen vs so great a foyle ye enter into your thirde parte saying VVe may now proceede to the remnant of your booke sauing that this in no wise must be ouerhipped that euen by your owne wordes here ye purge M. Feckenham from this crime ye laide vnto him euen now for refusing the proufeâ—… taken out of the old Testament Now for God M. St. since hitherto ye haue cléered him so sclenderly that ye haue more bewrapped him and your selfe also in this crime let nothing in any case be forgotten or ouerhipped that any wayes may helpe the matter forwarde for hitherto it rather hath gone backward but now there is good hope M. Feckenham shall take a good purgation euen of the Bishops owne making that you M. Stap. will minister to him which wil so worke vpon him make him haue so good a stoole that he shal be clerely purged of this crime of Donatistes â—…o to then M. Stapl and let vs sée how apothecarylike you can minister the same For if as ye say say you the order gouernment that Christ left behind in the Gospell new Testament is the order rule gouernment in ecclesiastical causes practised by the Kings of the old Testament then will it follow that M. Feckenham yelding to the gouernment of the new doth not exclude but â—…ather comprehende the gouernment of the old Testament also both being especially as ye say all one Is this the purgation M. St. that ye will minister to M. Feckenham would to God ye could make him receyue anâ—… brooke this sentence if you would take it also I warrent ye it would so purge you of your old leuen sowre dough that ye should no more be Donatists nor Papistes neither if ye receyue and well digest this little sentence The order and gouernment that Christ left behinde in the new Testament is the order rule and gouernment in Ecclesiasticall causes practised by the kinges of the old Testament For then giue ye Princes that that ye haue all this while denied theÌ„ But do ye thinke M. Feckenham will wittingly and willingly receiue this sentence that which in déede followeth necessarily thereon The sentence is true but M. Feck for all that may be a lier and you another For I warrant you M. Feck granteth this no â—…urder than as the Donatists he may temper it to make it seeme to serue his turne Why say you if he grant the onâ—… he doth not exclude but rather comprehende the other Nay M. St. M. Feck coÌ„preheÌ„des it not but shoonnes it as agaynst him by your owne confession But the olde being comprehended by the newe Master Feckenham is contrarie wise by force of argument graunting the newe enforced by the olde Not that he comprehendeth it but is comprehended of it and driuen to yeelde thereto of his aduersarie by conclusion of reasoning the one including the other But rather than he will do this voluntarily he will rather exclude them both the olde and the newe testament also and as he hath done burne them both togither The. 20. Diuision THe Bishop in this diuision first gathereth his full conclusion of all these testimonies into this argument What gouernment order and dutifulnesse so euer belonging to any God hath prefigured and promised before hande by his Prophetes in the holy scriptures of the olde Testament to be performed by Christ those of his Kingdom that is the gouernment order and dutifulnesse set forth and required in the Gospell or new testament But that faythfull Emperours Kinges and Rulers ought of dutie as belonging to their office to claime and take vpon them the gouernment authoritie power care and seruice of God the Lorde in matters of Religion or causes Ecclesiasticall was an order and dutifulnesse for them prefigured and forepromised of God by his Prophetes in the Scriptures of the olde Testament as Saint Augustine hath sufficiently witnessed Ergo Christian Emperors Kings and Rulers owe of dutie as belonging to their office to clayme and take vpon them the gouernment authoritie power care and seruice of God their Lorde in matters of Religion or spirituall ecclesiasticall causes is the gouernment order and dutifulnesse setforth and required in the Gospell or new Testament The Bishop hauing thusfully concluded these Testimonies he yet confirmeth them further with more authorities of the Prophete Esay with Lyra his exposition therevpon and the example of Constantine for proufe of the same At this master Stapleton first carpeth by certaine marginall notes or euer he blowe vp the Chapter of his Counterblast thereto The minor of the Bishops conclusion for the Princes gouernment authoritie power care c. he grauÌ„teth but not such supreme gouernment sayth he as the othe prescribeth He graunteth also Saint Augustine to witnesse this the Princes gouernment but no such large and supreme gouernment as we attribute now to them Againe he graunteth this supreme gouernment is in causes ecclesiasticall â–ª but not in all causes ecclesiasticall And so graunting that the Bishop concludeth well in some such thing you conclude not sayth he in all things and causes and therefore you conclude nothing agaynst vs. Lastly he graunteth all the Bishops testimonies concerning Constantine but he denieth that it maketh any thing for vs. Nowe after these marginall notes prefixed he entreth into his Chapter pretending to open the weakenesse of the Bishops conclusion and of other his proues oute of holie Scripture And first his aunswere to this diuision he deuideth in thrée partes First he graunteth all that the Bishop hath sayde but denieth that it is sufficient Secondly he quarrelleth about this that the Bishop calleth the Emperour Constantine a Bishop as Eusebius nameth him Thirdly he chalengeth him for calling Idoll Image Now to the first parte to sée whether all these grauntes make sufficiently for vs and conclude against him yea
eyes to see eares to heare and handes to feele we can not choose but beholde it in the face 434. a. Ye had neede looke well to your selfe remember nowe among other things master Horne c. Take heede master Horne Thinke vpon this at your good laysure remember also howe ye stande c. VVherein I pray you resteth a great part of your newe clergie B. But in Butchers C. Cookes Catchpoles and Coblers D. Diers Daubers F. Fellons Fishermen G. Gunners H. Harpers I. Inkeepers M. Merchants and Mariners N. Netmakers P. Potters Poticaries and Porters of Belingsgate R. Ruffling Ruffians S. Sadlers Sheremen and Shepeheardes T. Tanners Tylers Tinkers Trumpetters VV. VVeauers VVherrymen 481. a. b. This and such other is his Rhetorik eyther flourishing with 〈◊〉 wordes running on a letter and nowe and then sifting the whole crosse rowe for them Or else doubling and trâ—…bling of 〈◊〉 phrases or multiplying of wordes with which euery sentence is in a maner farced For 〈◊〉 is not commonly content to expresse his minde with one worde be it 〈◊〉 so plaine except he vnderproppâ—… it with an other at the least as thus miserable and wretched peruerting and deprauing The full illustration and opening of whole and entyre matter Euidently and openly disciphered and disclosed espied and vnbuckled bewrayed and detected opened illustred and confirmed Which as it is most vaine babling so is it altogither vnworthy the noting except briefly to shew the reader what kinde of vanitie he hath puft vp this his Counterblast withall His sixt common place of impertinent discourses His ovvne obiection of the same LIke a wanton Spaniell hee runneth from his game at riot 243. Master Horne sayth he seeketh out bye matters leauing the principall as the Donatistes did 321. a. That thou mayest the better sée howe he obserueth this and kéepeth himselfe to his matter or no first beholde the issue and state of the question betwéene the Bishop and M. Fëckhenham which is this VVhether any Prince haue taken on them any such supreme gouernment as dothe the Q. Maiestie in ecclesiasticall causes Which issue to be resolued in Master Feckenham desireth the proufe by any of these foure wayes eyther by the Scriptures or by the Doctors or by the Councels or by the continuall practise in any one part of Christendome To the which issue by all these foure said wayes the Bishop directeth all his prooues and in this first booke he prooueth it by two of them the Scriptures and the Doctors Now whether Master Stapleton kéepe himself to this issue or to the proufes thereof or to the Bishops answere without playing the wanton Spaniell and the part of the Donâ—… iudge when thou hast read this his sixt common place And withall thou shalt sée what good plentie of bye matters he had in store when substantiall matter â—…ayled him In his first Preface taking on him to gather abriefe summe of such things as he thought specially he might deface the Bishop withall throughout all his Preface he neuer setteth 〈◊〉 the issue in controuersie but quarelleth about other things with the Bishops rashnesse follie Grammer Logike Rhetorike Arithmetike And where at the length he speaketh of king Henrie 1. his dealings in punishing Priestes whoredome to shewe â—…ow of purpose he séeketh out his quarelles he slinketh from the Princes dealing wherewith he is vrged and sayth this is not the thing we now seeke for but to know what kinde of whoredome it was that the Priestes shoulde be punished for Pag. 12. And Pag. 18. letting go the matter that he is in hande withall he discourseth agaynst the Bishop of Sarum about Sabellicus titles In the 2. Preface where he bindeth himselfe 〈◊〉 than in the. 1. to declare the whole pith of the question and course of the Bishops and his owne â—…ke he digresseth into a common quarell about diuersitie of fects and heresies which he ascribeth to the Protestants he câ—…eth into Greece Affrica Bohemia Hungarie Lifelande pag. 30 and so commeth home to Englande digressing from the question and issue to English bookes to forbidding of the Bible to be read to the iudgemeÌ„t of Lambert to burning to religious houses Pag. 31. to vowes to repealing lawes to setting forth a newe religion to mariage of Priestes to consecrating â–ª Bishops to the reall presence Pag. 32. Then runneth he to search out discorde in the Protestants and quarelling about wordes in the act and iniunction he maketh an exhortation to returne to the Romaine Church 33. 34. 35. In the aunswere to the Bishops Preface the first whole diuision fo 1. 2. a. b. A loâ—…g impertinent discourse to molliâ—…e master Feckenhams pretence for setting out his booke A number of bie matters falsely charging the Bishop with diuerse impertinent slaunders 2. b. 3. a. Pretending to direct the reader to the question here in trouersie for the nonce he setteth vp a number of newe markes that master Feckenham and the Bishop medleth not withall 3. b. Fol. 4. a. He quarelleth at the Bishop of Sarum for the 600. yeares and the Bishop of Winchester for alleaging testimonies of later yeares calling this vneuen dealing of the Protestants He quarelleth about precise wordes He maketh a new chalenge to the Bishop he chargeth the Bishop of a late bragge none of all these things belonging any whit to the matter 4. b. 5. a. In his first booke A long outrode whether the Bishop were well called by M. Feck the Lorde Bishop of VVinchester or no. 7. a. b. Whether he be Bishop or prelate of the Garter 7. b. succession of Bishops 8. a â–ª against the mariage of Bishops of flesh on Frydayes of a Pigge turned into a Pike That the Protestants be Heretikes euen by the Apologie of England 8. b. An inuectiue against the actes of Parliament of altering religion agaynst the will of the whole clergie that the Bishop can not defende himselfe to bee a Bishop by any lawe of the Realme About the reall presence transubstantiation and adoration 9. a. Deniall of free will the necessitie of baptising children vnlawfull mariage 9. b. A long inuectiue agaynst the disputation at VVestminster Anno. reginae 1. with a number of friuolous excuses whie they shranke from it 12. a. b. 13. a. A long digression almost of 13. leaues togither nothing to the question but discoursing into all countreys Boheme Germanie Denmarke Swethland Brabant Hollande Flaunders Lukelande Englande Fraunce Scotlande Saxonie Hessia VVestphalia besides many townes and Cities chiefly about the businesse in the lowe Countreys to deface the Gospell by the tumults there raysed as the worlde well séeth onely by the practises of the Papists Fol. 33. b. Hauing mentioned the plague he falleth into wicked ghessing that the procedings in that Parliament were the cause of the plague that reigned at London and once againe a â—…ing at the Bishops that they be no Church nor yet Parliament Bishops A long impertinent bibble babble about master Feckenhams ioly disputations begon at London and ended at
Gods name let it there appeare where it is also answered folzâ—… For his 48. and. 49. vntruthes he alleageth no reason nor cause onely he sayth the former is boldely auouched but no way proued and the other somewhat more impudent Since therefore he hath nothing wherein to conuince them I may wel returne his boldnesse and impudencie to him selfe and remitte the tryall of the truthe or vntruthe to the discussing of Iosias ensample Nowe haue you shewed your selfe playnely herein to be a Donatist also The. 50. vntruthe most slaunderous M. Horne and his fellowes are in many poyntes Donatistes as shall appeare The triall of this vntruthe is discoursed at large in the proper place where M. Stapleton citeth it to appeare there shall be heard inough for triall of this chalenge pro contra and as the Reader on the viewe of bothe shall there finde it so on Gods name let him estéeme of it The Donatistes sayde they were of the Catholike fayth of the Catholike Church-which shifte for their defence agaynst Gods truthe the Popishe sectaries do vse in this our time beeing no more of the one or of the other than were the Donatistes and suche like The. 51. vntruthe Answere the Fortresse M. Horne annexed to sainct Bede if ye dare to defende this most sensible and grosse lye Howe happie are you M. Stapleton that euer ye buylt suche a Fortresse that ye thus can crake of so lustily bidde vs come and assayle crying aunswere the Fortresse and come if yee dare and if he come not then he dare not come if he set not on your Fortresse then this must néedes be a lye Muste it nowe truely then youre Fortresse is but a weake Fortresse if the prouing this a lye doe aunswere and ouerturne your Fortresse We néede neuer goe thither for the matter to proue your Church noâ—… the catholike Church nor to haue the catholike fayth this wil be proued in this booke well inough I warrant ye or euer it be ended ye shal sée your self more than once or twice confesse it And diuers other haue at large proued it what néede we then runne to your Fortresse In the next diuision which is the. 19. M. St. gathereth an other vntruthe but before it he setteth downe two marginall notes The first where the Bishop sayd All the sectes of the Donatistes whether they be Gaudentians Petilians Rogatists Papistes or any other sect c. Upon this word Papistes master Stapleton maketh a starre saying You should haue sayd Protestantes who in so many points as hath bene shewed resembled the Donatistes It is well inough M. Sta. and ye can let it stand til time be ye haue vntrussed all those poyntes euen from your own sloppes then ye may go perhaps like Baily hosegodowne The. 2 â–ª note is this Where the Bishop hauing alleaged a long sentence of S. Augustine agaynst M. Feckenham Thus farre S. Augustine sayth he by whose iudgement of the catholike Church c. Note sayth M. Stap. that nowe S. Augustines iudgement is also the iudgement of the catholike Churche To the which note I also adde this note withall M. Stapleton that your Church is not then the Catholiks Church whose iudgement herein agréeth not with Sainct Augustines iudgement Loe M. Stapleton howe pretily yourself begin to aunswere your last vntruth if ye holde on thus we shall not greatly néed to scale your fortresse euen this your CouÌ„terblast will encounter and ouerblowe it After these two notes he setteth downe his vntruth Your errontous opinion The. 52 vntruth M. Feckenham holdeth no such opinion The opinion there mencioned and confuted by S. Augustine is this of the Donatists that the order rule and gouernment practised be the Kinges of the olde Testament in ecclesiasticall causes ar not figures and prophecies of the like gouernment to bee in the kings vnder the newe Testament nor the order that Christ lefte behinde him in his Gospell newe Testament This was the opinion of the Donatistes in Saint Augustines time and this is yours Master Fecknams and Master Dormans opinion nowe that they are not such figures and prophecies and therfore ye confesse your selfe fol. 62. that M. Feckenham omitted the proufes of the olde Testament bycause they made against him Nowe whether this be an erroniouse opinion or no I commit you and Saint Augustine togither to scamble about it The. 53 vntruth Whither S. Augustine haue witnessed no such large and supreame gouernment as we attribute now to Princes yea whither Master Stapleton haue graunted so much or no is proued at large in the. 19. 20. Diuisions Your wilfulnesse is such that you delight only in wrangling against the truth The. 54. vntruth â—…claunderous Then are your selfe this â—…claunderer M. Stapleton that confesse Folio 62. he omitted to shewe forthe the truths of purpose bicause it made agaynst him what is this but wiâ—…full wrangling agaynst the truthe Constantine made many holesome lawes and godly constitutions wherewith he restrayned the people with threates forbidding the sacrificing to Idols to seeke after the diuelishe and superstitious soothsaying to set vp Images The. 55. vntâ—…uthe They were Idols not Images that Constantine forbad his subiects to set vp And in his Counterblast fol. 68. he sayth to say that Constantine forbad to â—…et vp Images is an open and a shamelesse lye What shamelesse outfacing is this The very words euen in the same place and many other of the booke are playne agaynst Images and nameth bothe Idols and Images also as the Bishop dothe Which withal confuteth his subtile distinction betwéene Image and Idoll as though an Image might not be an Idoll also Neither can the distinction serue your turne For Constantine forbiddeth bothe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 As for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 your selfe confesse he forbad whether he forbad Images or no these are Eusebius owne wordes in Gréeke 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Lib. 2. Euen so Christe our Sauiour confirmed this their authoritie commaunding all men to attribute and giue vnto Cesar that which belongeth vnto him The. 56. vntruthe This place of S. Mathew maketh nothing for the Princes supreme gouernement in ecclesiasticall things It maketh as the Bishop alleaged it to confirme al that authoritie by Christes Gospell that was due before in the time of the olde Testament Which your selfe graunt â–ª but that Princes had supreme authoritie in ecclesiastical things in the time of the olde Testament the Bishop proued before and your selfe also graunted it though ye denied such supreme gouernement as we attribute Therefore this place maketh some thing for Princes supreme gouernment in ecclesiasticall things so bewrayeth your owne vntruth and the truth of the Bishop This to be Christes order and meaning that the kings of the nations should be the supreme gouernours ouer their people not onely in temporall but also in spirituall or ecclesiasticall causes the blessed
and with diffinct letter which he doth not here but Paraphrastically expoundeth the texte Wherein if he doe wreste the meaning of saint Paule ye shoulde hardly note that for an vntruthe â–ª S. Paule there nameth not religion that is true but that this worde godlynesse which saint Paule nameth comprehendeth not religion as the Byshop saythe that is your owne vntruthe But this matter is debated more at large in the answere to your Counterblast chap. 18. diuis â–ª 22. where is shewed bothe by the Fathers and by your owne chiefe writers that sainte Paule by this word godlynesse meant true religion Here ye set another blasing starre vpon these words that the Byshop sayth This woulde be noted with good aduisement that Sainte Paule himselfe sheweth playnely prosperitie amongste Gods people and true religion to be the benefites and fruites in generall that by Gods ordinance springeth from the rule and gouernement of Kings and Magistrats vnto the weale of the people This would be noted say you howe ye racke saint Paule he nameth not religion at all he dothe not attribute religion to the rule and gouernment of the ciuill Magistrat but peace and tranquillitie only in godlynesse Ye durst not note this for an vntruth M. Stapleton but for a racking or wresting althoughe this is but your peeuish difference If he racke saint Paules meaning he telleth an vntruth of saint Paule although this dothe cleare the B. of racking also that ye durste not playnely note and score it vp for an vntruth yet as the B. saying is most true so it nothing swarueth from the meaning of sainte Paule For aâ—… the B. proueth by Chrysostome that by this worde godlynesse is meant religion and the inwarde peace of the mynde and conscience and not only the outward peace of the body So Saint Paule maketh these to bee the benefites fruites and endes that by Gods ordinaunce wee receyue from the rule and gouernement of kings and magistrates in whiche saying S. Paule is not racked but it is you M. Stapleton that racke Saint Paule â–ª for he sayth not tranquillitie and peace only in godlinesse yâ—… may put your only in your pursse Saint Paule sayth in godlinesse and purenesse The whiche knot and fastening togither of religion and prosperitie incoÌ„mon weales the most Christian and godly Emperours Theodosius Ualentinianus did wisely foresee The. 68. vntruthe They sawe no suche confounding of the two functions spirituall and temporall as you imagine This vntruth is directed against the Byshops imagination ye go verie neare the B. M. Stapleton that where hée sayth no suche wordes as you chalenge ye will créepe into his heart and fetche iâ—… from thence ye haue a goodeye sighte that can see what the B. imagineth But wisdome wil think this to bée a fonde toy of your own idle imagination for the Byshops words import no such confusion as ye talke of hée telleth howe godlynesse and prosperiâ—…e are lincked togither in common weales so that the one cannot be well without the other that the Prince is the knitting togither of both these and this he saythe the Emperours sawe and that they sawâ—… it he bringeth good proufe theire own manifest words set downe at large eyther proue this an vntruth M. Sta. or else the B. hath made nene it is but your vntrue sclaunder fonde imagination I haue proued c. That such like gouernment in Churche causes as the Queenes Maiestie taketh vpon hir dothe of duetie belong vnto ciuill magistrates The. 69. vntruth Such like gouernement you haue not nor euer shall be able to proue The B. saith that in this first booke he hath hitherto proued it by the scriptures the Doctours and some Emperoures This you denie that he hath done and set him a long day to proue it Nowe the truth or vntruth of this the reader must hang in suspence til be haue read the prâ—…s ouer what they bee and then in the name of God lette himiudge whether the vntruthe lyghte on the Byshoppe or on Master Stapleton In the meane season â—…ytherto the Reader maye haue a taste what shame is in this impudent mannes â—…ace what truthe in his cause and what folly in hâ—…s heade thus to the wide worlde to score and sette out suche thinges for vntruthes as beeing neuer so little rypped vp are moste apparante truthes and to make suche a tryumphante gambolde and pyping vp of a round as hee doth thereon But leâ—…te hym daunce his â—…yll and nicke vp still on the score in the ende hée will runne so farre in the lashe that no man will credite a worde of his mouthe MeÌ„daci non crâ—…ditur ne iurato quidem A lyer is not beleeued no thoughe he svveare ⧠To Master Stapletons first Preface OR euer Master Stap â–ª enter into his counterblast he prefixeth two Prefaces the first to the B. the second to the Reader The first bicause it is only a packet trussed vp of all such accusations as he layeth to the Bishops charge through out his whole counterblast and so is to be aunswered in their proper places I minde not therefore to follow Master Stapletons vaine that saith Decies repeâ—…ta placebunt to spende the time and trouble the Reader more than néedes in answering to them here that are to be answered in their places seuerally and are already many of them noted before in his Common places The effect and conclusion of this preface in the ende is this That the Bishop must néedes make a full reioynder A full reioynder I say saith he and perfect to all and euery parte of this reply and put in Master Stapletonâ—… whole answere not omitting any one line or sentence either of the text or of the margine or els the truth is not on the Bishops side or els he waÌ„teth learnyng or els he buildeth on no good fundation nor the cause he groundeth on is sure or els all men vvill laugh him to scorne for his faire piece of vvorke so shamefully broken of or els M. Feckenhams scruples are most learned and inuincible reasons or els the othe can not be takeÌ„ with out manifest periurie or els Master Horne must retract his most haighnouse heresies or els which I should haue set before all that the B. hath saide is but vvoordes of course to saue his poore honestie and but waltham talke or els as he obiecteth foolishnesse to the B. so M. Stapleton may proue as wise as walthams calfe and thus as he saith to the B. for this time I take my leaue of you Vale resipisce so may I for this your first Preface take my leaue of you Master Stapleton Uale sape ⧠To Master Stapletons seconde Preface THe seconde Preface is directed to the Reader and is coÌ„triued in thrée partes The first sheweth the reasons why he tooke vppon him to answere the Bishop The second how by what order he procéedeth in his answere The thirde is an earnest admonition
and vnder the B. name to deface the ministers of the Church that therfore he could not but of dutie shape M. Fec an answere To this M. St. omitting the B. motiues laboureth like a clearkly proctour for his client to purge M. Feck for the setting forth of his booke and accuseth the B. of false surmising laying to the B. charge his first two vntruthes which are answered in their proper Kalender The clearing of Master Feckenham he deuideth into thrée partes First whie M. Feckenham made this booke or as he calleth it a Shedule or little treatise Secondly why he deliuered the same to the Bishoppe Thirdlye whye hée afterwardes caused the same to bée publyshed and deliuered to some of the councell But first whatsoeuer he wil set downe for master Feckenham whom he calleth the reuerent father my lord Abbot of VVestminster bicause him selfe hath no knowledge hereof but by hearesay all that he declareth he buildeth on this grouÌ„d as I assuredly vnderstand Now who gaue him thus assuredly to vnderstande a man may easily deuine euen forsooth this reuerent father who as we must vnderstande with all would tell M. Stap â–ª nothing that should be partiall to himselfe in his owne case We must therefore beléeue that all is true that Master St. telleth of Master Feckenham for assuredly master Feck his own self no worse man hath let him so to vnderstand The drift of all this first deuision is to chalenge the B. of vntruthes which is answered into the boderoll as before and therefore is but superfluous to repeate it The second deuision draweth nerer to the matter The second Deuision THe B. in the seconde deuision of his Preface declareth by what maner of proufes in this answere he satisfieth maister â–ª Feckenhams demaunde by the scriptures by the Doctors by the couÌ„cels and by the Churches practise And that euen by some such authors as themselues are papists and in this matter partiall to the Pope To this M. St. replieth in three partes The first part is nothing else but an heape onely of slaunders and bragges The seconde is a setting vp of markes before his counterblast for the reader to direct himselfe vnto wherby to sée who swarueth from who kéepeth him niest to the question in controuersie The thirde is a quarrelling with the B. for saying that he brought foorth proufes euen of the papists them selues The first part is set out in hys common places thereon whereto howbeit his slaunders and bragges be very lauishe there néede no furder answere In the seconde remembring at the length himselfe that he hath hitherto spoken nothing materiall to the question after his facinges he saith VVherfore as it is meeâ—…e in all matters so is it here also conuenient and necessarie to haue before thine eyes good Reader the state and principall question controuersed betvvene the parties standing in variance and then diligently to see hovv the proofes are of eche partie applied for the confirming of their assertions This is very good and necessarie councell that here ye giue the Reader M. Stap. and it had bene to be wished your selfe had eyther in time remembred it or not forgot it so soone againe But ye would not remember it of purpose for had ye set this rule alwayes before your eyes and as ye should haue followed your owne precept ye well foresawe what a leane carrion Pamphlet your puft vp Counterblast should haue ben lookyng with a thinner payre of chéekes by thrée deales and more than it dothe Neuerthelesse I wishe as you do the Reader still to marke this rule and he shall sée it is no good fatte nor sounde fleshe but foggy winde that this whole Counterblast is bolne and swolne vp with all Now hauing this warning of his owne mouth to haue still before our eyes the state and principall question of the booke and thereby to sée hovveche parties proues are applied let vs see how here he sets it downe before his owne eyes and applies his proues thereto What the state and principall question is betvveene the parties M. Feckenham and the B. of Winchester standing in variance Looke M. Feckenhams owne woordes desiring therein to be resolued VVhether any such gouernment in Spirituall or Ecclesiasticall causes as the Queenes Maiestie claymeth may be proued by any of these foure meanes the Scripture the Doctours the Councels or the continuall practise of any one Church of Christendome On this state being demaunded to be proued or improued standeth the principall point in variance betvveene these twaine This M. Feckenham earnestly calleth vpon and offereth readily to sweare if this by any of these foure partes can be proued This the B. of Winchester laboreth directly to proue and fully hath proued euen by all foure partes vnlesse you can disprooue his proues And this now is your principall parte M. St. alwayes while ye labour to confute him to haue set and fixed your eyes on this point being the issue the state and principall question betvveene these tvvaine in variance And to shew wherein the Bishop swarues from this or makes any defect herein And not to looke vpon other so many impertinent matters as your CoÌ„mon place thereon declares your vagaries nor to stande so long on them nor to prie and poare out new starting holes nor direct the eye of your reader to a wrong marke point out a new butte to the which wheÌ„ your aduersarie directly shooteth not but to the issue couenanted betweene them twaine desired of the one to be shotte vnto shotte vnto fully hitte of the other and then you like a bootie ayme giuer to crie out as ye do that he shooteth vvide and shorte coÌ„meth not nere the marke by a 1000. miles Ye are a false ayme giuer M. Stap. all the world may sée withall how when ye sée the marke is hit at the full euery time ye haue no other shifte but this to denie that to be the marke set vp But now let vs sée how properly your selfe shoote at the marke and set before your eyes the state of the question in variance betvveene them twayne If ye starte away therefroÌ„ hauing now saide thus much ye quite shame your selfe and your cause Looke to it therfore play the good archer shoote you néerer hit the marke to winne the B. shotte ye can But â—…o howe ye beginne to wrangle euen at the first entrie and swarue from your owne principle to set before your eyes the principall state in variance betvveene them whiche saye you is conuenient and necessarie If it be so M. St. then followit Nay say you ye shall first graunt me sixe thinges and when ye haue graunted them then will I enter into this matche with you and shew how ye euer shot amisse and so beate you out of the fâ—…elde Is this euen dealing M. St. to demaunde sixe things at once to be graunted What will not one two or thrée serue your
that vve vvere baptised in Sée what a wicked slaunder to couer your disobediēce ye charge your most gratious prince withall as though she went about to make you renie that fayth ye vvere baptised in And this ye doe euen where ye pretende to kneele on your knees vvith moste humble and lowely submission Sée what cankred hearts ye beare for all your counterfayte crouching If ye knowe M. Stap. the fayth ye were baptised in at least if ye were rightely baptised and be a true Christian man it is not in the name fayth or obedience of the Pope but in the name fayth and obedience of the father the sonne and the holy ghost and this fayth the Q. maiestie goeth so little about to haue you abandon that hir Graces supreme gouernemēt is chiefly directed to this end to haue ye without any superstition error idolatrie or any other pollution therof kéepe maintein it inuiolate as in baptisme ye promised to do and therfore this is not subiect like though ye be on your knees neuer so muche to accuse hir highnesse as to cause ye to abandon the fayth ye were baptised in She requireth ye to kéepe it not abandon it neither on the soden nor at leisure And if this were all the cause of your refusall of obedience as hir Grace neuer denied you it ye doe but slaunder hir so néeded ye not haue runne away nor shew yet such disobedience to hir authoritie since she euer graunted and maynteined the thing ye séeme to craue Howbeit your counterfeite humilitie detecteth it selfe to be very stubborne disobedience And that while ye pretende to craue one thing ye entende another thing And that is ye would be borne with still to refuse her graces supreme authoritie ouer you in Ecclesiasticall causes this is the thing in deede ye meane and ye would the rather be borne withall bicause it is a matter that commeth vpon the sodaine therefore ye can not vpon the sodaine graunt it In déede M. St. ye pretende reason Weightie matters require not to be done on a sodeyne passion but with deliberation ▪ But is this so sodeyne a matter yet vnto you did ye neuer heare of this questiō before haue ye not had leasure to deliberate thereon but who seeth not that and ye had neuer so much leasure this matter would still come vpon the sodeyne to you and of reason ye must haue time to take aduisement vpō it which you will take all at your leasure and so for feare ye should become an obedient subiect vpon the sodeyne ye craue to remayne still vpon deliberation an obstinate enemie But M. St. pretēding this refusall to be for the abandoning of the faith that we were Christened in procéedeth And as we are assured all our auncetours and her Maiesties owne most noble progenitours yea her owne most noble father King Henrie the eight yea that faith which he in a clerkly booke hath most pithily defended and thereby atchieued to him and his and transported as by hereditarie succession the worthie title and stile yet remayning in her Highnesse of the Defendour of the Faith. As ye slaunder most wickedly the Quéenes Maiestie to cause ye to abandon the faith of your baptisme ▪ so ye slaunder not only al our auncestors but that most famouse Prince her highnesse Father K. Henrie the 8. as christened in the faith of the Popes obedience hereof ye say ye are assured when it is most assured most euident false For although our fathers the Q. Maiesties father also yea many of vs our selues the Q. Maiestie also her selfe were borne and baptised when all the errours of poperie or many of them did chiefly abounde yet can no more any one of these be said now to be baptised in those errours that they helde which baptised them if they kept the right formall words of baptisme I baptise thée in the name of the Father of the sonne of the holy Ghost thā in the old time any of their childrē or they themselues could be saide to be baptised in such errours as they helde that were Nouatians Donatists Rogatists Pelagians or any other Heretikes that notwithstāding kept the right element formal words of baptisme Neither can any Papist say now to any that dissuadeth him from his popish errours that he goeth about to will him to abandon the faith wherein he was baptized any more thā a Pelagian or any such Heretike being moued to forsake his heresie could pretēd he were moued to forsake the faith he was baptised in bicause they that baptised him yea his auncesters before him were Pelagians c. Ye should therefore M. St. make your distinction betwene the faith of your baptisme and the faith that your popish Church putteth in diuers erronious pointes of doctrine As for the faith that K. Henrie the 8 ▪ the Q. Maiesties most noble Father set out in the Booke that ye mencion therby labour to stayne the Q. Maiestie as setting out a contrarie faith to her father as you for your parte M. St. shew your extreme malice nothing subiectlike to blemish her highnesse with the famous renown of her father which notwithstanding ye cā not do so for the King her father I answere you howbeit his booke were clerkly yet clerklines is one thing truth is an other what maruel if he thē wrote in defence of your doctrines whē your popish prelates hid the very truth frō him bore him in hand that your falshoodes were truth till it pleased God not to suffer so noble a Prince to be any longer deluded by such false prelates but first in this question after in other according to the measure of his merciful riches reueled the truth vnto him how chance ye speake not of his faith then what clerkly sincere doctrine he set out thē against your Pope And as for the Q. Maiestie herein which is the proper questiō now in hād followeth most zealously the steppes of her highnesse father not wherein he was abused as many other princes were by false teachers but in that he forsooke those errours he abolished those false teachers their captaines vsurped authoritie in that he obeyed the truth reueled to him before all his own clerkly bookes before all worldly glory securitie aduentured himselfe his kingdome against all his enemies in setting forth the truth gouerning his subiects after the word of god Which though it were not so plentifully set forth then nor all wéedes so thoroughly rooted vp by reason of some false Gardiners whom he trusted ouer much howbeit at lēgth thanks be to God he espied them also had procéeded furder if God had lent him furder life yet is he rather to be commended for that he did than to be euil spoken or euell thought of for that he could not throughly bring to passe in his time but left his most vertuouse Sonne King Edwarde to bring to more perfection
now Luther can take no place amongst vs he obiecteth another vnto vs one Andreas Modrenius And yet his saying also maketh God wote ful little for the Papists herein Who saith there ought to be some one to be taken for the chiefe and supreme head in the whole Church in all causes ecclesiasticall What conclude ye M. St. herevpon Ergo it must be your Pope or no christian prince And here as though all these were not yet sufficient testimonies ye bring in Caluin But since ye doe it but to fill vp your booke with that common allegation of your side which being also not omitted of M. FeckeÌ„ham is to be referred to be propounded and answered vnto in his proper place I therefore remit you thither Onely to that ye say he so spitefully handled King Henrie the eyght as hee neuer handled the Pope more spitefully I aunswere this is but your spitefull lie to deface the Protestantes Else why doe ye not proue the same And as for your Pope it is euident also he neuer handled him spitefully but onely reproued his vyces and errours by the worde of god But howe spitefullie your Pope and popishe Prelates so farre as they coulde handeled him and howe spitefully they handle all Protestantes that they maye once sette their spitefull spirituall fingers vppon all the worlde doeth sée And yet the silie Protestantes muste beare all the blame it is not ynoughe for them to beare the iniuryes This lesson ye learned of the Diuell of Dowgate to bite and whine also or rather ye doe as Esops Woolfe did chalenge the poore Lambe for troubling his water and to misuse him spitefully but thys mercifull Woolfe deuoured this spitefull Lambe He vrgeth vs farther in great outcryes with a sentence of one Anthonie Gilbie our own Countriman The summe of his argument is this Anthonie Gilbie an Englishe man speaketh verie vnreuerently and vnreligiously of King Henrie the eight Ergo the Protestantes now in England whatsoeuer they pretende and dissemble in wordes in heart mislike the Quéenes maiesties gouernment How doth this follow M. St and yet ye wrest Anthonie Gilbies sentence also He speaketh not of this supremacie neyther but in plaine wordes of such a supremacie in England as the Pope chalengeth all ouer Christendome Though therefore he be greatly to be blamed for his vnreuerent speach and for his vnaduised mistaking of hys Princes lawfull authoritie yet is he not to be belyed as though he spoke of all kinde of supremacie in all princes simplie It is a shame as they say M. St. euen to belie the Diuell But sée how the matter falleth out Ye haue brought Anthonie Gilbyes sentence agaynst vs and the Quéenes maiesties authoritie Haue ye not wel holpeÌ„ your self if this sentence also make flat agaynst your pope For if as he sayth therin truely Christ ought onely to be the head of the church the placing of any other displaceth him then is not the pope the head also but the placing of him displaceth christ But the Pope chalengeth to be the heade of the Churche also which our prince doth not Ergo not our prince but your Pope displaceth christ And thus thinking to beate vs ye still make a rodde for your owne Popes tale And here sodenly calling to mind how far he hath straied in forraging out these sentences he returneth a little to the Bishop setting on him for calling the Pope the Papists god in earth the archeheretike of Rome and that M. Fec would haue him reigne in the Queenes place Besturring himselfe with a heape of arguments to defende his Pope Besides his scoffes raylings and other rhetoricall floures quoted in his common places But first for his Pope sayth he VVe make no God of the Pope and sometimes perhaps no good man neyther In déede M. Stap. ye should haue more than both your handes full to make your Pope sometimes a good man â–ª ye néede not put perhaps to the matter It would pose him selfe and all the Diuels in hell and that oftentymes to worke such a miracle on him as that man of sinne that childe of perdition and aduersarie of God to become a good man. But yet I say beware howe ye speake such buggishe words of him as not to be a good man. Whose wil is law whose law is all power in heauen in earth in hell Nowe can this be an ill man Beware least this come to his eares M. Stap. and withall that ye make him not a God in earth Are not you of theyr religion that beléeue and confesse this principle 〈◊〉 deus noster Papa Our Lorde God the Pope Yea and as some say he is Plusque deuâ—… If ye be beware his thunderbolt If ye be not whie defende ye him and his errors against the truth of God whie forsake you your most vertuous Prince to follow a straunger and that an yll man but you answere And yet we reuerence him for his office and authoritie that Christ so amply and honourably gaue him for preseruation of vnitie and quietnesse in his Church That ye reuerence him in déede and that is more adore him to is manifest But the patent of that his office and authoritie that ye crake Christe so amplie and so honorably gaue your Pope ye shewe none nor where nor how nor when he gaue it Only ye tell vs of the endes wherefore he gaue it For the preseruation of vnitie and quietnes in his Church But if these were the endes M. St. he hath forfeited his patent long ago That not onely disagreeth from the expresse wordes and commauÌ„dement of Christ but swerueth one Pope from another And how chance he setteth his own scholemeÌ„ his Canonists at no better vnitie his Thomists and his Scotistes his sects of Religions at no better quietnes than a tâ—…ade a snake togither how chance he agreeth no better with his Bishops his own colledge of cardinals How chance he falleth out so often with Emperours and kings setteth Princes their subiectes by the eares togither why fighteth he so fast with both his swordes like king Arthures dubble sworded knight why had he rather at this day that al christendome were in a broyle so much blâ—…ud were cruelly shedde than he would relent one inche of his honour one penie of his filthie gaine one iâ—…te of his errors Idolatries false dectrines that eueÌ„ are coÌ„fessed of his own secte giue place to the worde of God is this his preseruing of vnitie and quietnes in the Church of Christ or had he any such patent giuen him hath he not lost and lost it againe and will ye still reuerence and adore him for it Secondly where the Bishop calleth your Pope the arch-heretike of Rome Your wisedome say you with like truth also appeareth in that ye call the Pope the Archeheretike of Rome naming no man and so your wordes so liberally waÌ„tonly cast out do as well comprehende
huius vulgo transumptuÌ„ Ung double de ceste loy â–ª ad exemplum libri sacerdotuÌ„ LeuitaruÌ„ Quasi dicat ad exeÌ„pluÌ„ castigatissâ—…uÌ„ ad exemplum eoruÌ„ qui sunt periti in ea lege quales sunt Leuitae He shall prouide for him selfe that of this lawe there be drawen out a coppie commonly called a transumpt One couple of this law According to the examples of the priests beeing Leuites as who should say after the best corrected copy after their copie that are skilfull in the lawe suche ones as the Leuites are But to receiue it after such a simple sorte as in processe of time the Rabines and the Priests too from time to time had watred it with their false gloses as since that time the popish Rabines of the schole friers monkes and priestes from time to time with their false dangerous damnable gloses haue corrupted and watred the same and made it as it were of pleasant wine moste sowre vineger ye had néede to ryse betimes M. Stap. or euer ye shall proue this vntimely consequence by the text that you vrge so sore or yet by any other Your argument is this The king in the olde lawe should receiue the coppie of the booke of the lawe at the handes of the Priestes of the Leuiticall tribe Ergo â–ª If Princes now will haue the Bible they must receyue it of such and after such manner as the popish priests will from time to time deliuer it to them Now not seing the extreme folie of your sequele ye runne on headlong as though all were yours and say if this order had of late yeares bene kept and that Princes and other had taken the Bible as it is and euer hath bene of the Priestes of the Catholike churche orderly and lawfully succeeding one the other as the Leuites did read taught and expounded as well in Greke and Hebrue as in Latine these errours and heresies should neuer haue taken so deepe a roote as they haue now caught Here is bibble babble inough but no argument and all runnes vppon his wonted presupposals that our doctrine is heresies and errours that they be the Priestes of the Catholike churche That they orderly and lawfully succeede one the other as did theâ—…e Leuites That they haue euer redde taught and expounded the Scripture in Greeke Hebrewe and Latine That their translation is onely true and faithful And that this their order from time to time hath euer bene till of late Let all these thinges be graunted to M. Stapl. for vndoubted principles and then let him alone But if a man denied all these things beyng euery one so apparant false proued that our doctrine were not those dangerous gloses errours or heresies but the expresse infallible worde of God if he denied that their Church were the Catholike Churche otherwise than in that sense that the scholler of Oxford by a certeine woman whom other praysed did merily say she was a Catholike woman meaning a common queane so the Popishe church in like sense is a Catholike church that is to say a common strumpet prostitute to all Idolatrie and not the chaste espouse of Iesu Christe if he denied not onely such orderly succession in your Pope his Bishops and Priests now as was of the Leuites then they beyng expresly ordeyned of God you beyng not ordeined of God at all but also proue that suche succession as it is whiche in dede may better be called degeneration is altogether vnorderly and vnlawful If hée denyed that they did alwayes reade teache and expound the scripture in Hebrue Greke and Latine when euen among the moste of theyr greate Schoole doctours in that blynde tyme they had vneth any meane skill in Latin muche lesse or nene at all in gréeke or Hebrue As for the moste of their morrow Masse Priestes lyke blynde guydes were so farre from reading teaching and expounding the Scriptures to the people out of any other tongues that euen in their mother toung they scarse knewe one worde thereof themselues If he denyed that they woulde haue the Scripture redde taughte and expounded at all but on the contrarie woulde haue no translation other than their common latin translation which howe corrupte it is is manyfeste as Besides the Protestantes Caietanus Erasmus Pagninus Catharinus and others of themselues are enforced to confesse it If he denied that the Popishe handling of Gods woorde hathe bene the order that hath euer bene but is quite contrary to the originall Institution to the aunciente order and is of muche later tymes as corruption from tyme to tyme hathe taken deeper roote If a man thus denyed all these his Principles til tyme be that M. Stapleton shall proue them better than onely by dreamyng that wée graunte them for true whyche are called into greate question and denyed of vs for manyfest false Then is all the fatte in the fire and thys Mast. Stapletons solemne processe aunswered and confuted Neuerthelesse M. Stapleton styll procéedyng on as thoughe all these thynges were out of question Neyther is this place onely mente sayeth he that the King shoulde take the bare letter but rather the exposition vvithall of the sayde Priestes For vvhat vvere the king the better or any man else for the bare letter if hee hadde not also as ordinarie a vvaye for his direction in his vnderstandyng as hee had prouided him for to receyue a true and an incorrupted copie VVhereof wee may see the practise in all ages in the catholike Churche whereof this place is the very shadow and figure And herewithal he setteth vp in his margin this note bothe the bookes of the Scripture and the exposition muste be taken at the priestes handes The argumente is this The king in the olde lawe must receiue not only the bare letter of the priestes handes but the exposition withall Ergo Christian Princes muste receyue that sense of the Scripture that the Popishe priestes doe please to expounde vnto them As there is none I truste so simple that séeth not the fondnesse of this argumente so agayne eche man may perceyue that the more M. Stapleton trauayleth on these wordes whiche he sayth be vnfaithfully lefte out hée shall not onely shewe the more his owne vnfaithfulnesse but detecte also the vnfaithfull dealing of all his Romishe priestes and Churche For where as this place sayeth that the Leuiticall Priestes shall delyuer to the Kyng a perfecte and true Coppie of the Lawe of God whyche hée shall vvrite oute and haue it by him And that the Priestes shoulde not delyuer onely the bare letter but withall the exposition therof not expounded after their fantasies as dyd the Scribes and Phariseis in one place by the bare letter whiche Christ confuteth Math. 5. 6. 7. In an other place by their owne inuentions and traditions but one place truly expouÌ„ded by an other and so deliuer it faithfully to their Prince And that this order then was the verye shadowe and figure of the true Churche
novv But then is it most euident that the Popishe Churche is not the true Churche nor was figured hereby at all For first the popishe Prestes deliuered not a coppie of the lawe of God to wete of the Old and New testament vp into their Kings Queenes and Princes handes to write it out and haue it alwaies by them to studie vppon but rather do the contrary as did the Pharisies keping the key of knowledge away from them of purpose telling them it appertaineth not to their estates but that they may go play them or employ them selues in other foreigne matters onely the worde of God they must in no case meddle withall which belongeth alonely to the Priests Nor they will be bounde to deliuer vp to their Princes any coppie thereof at all But thus much yet they will do for their Princes to giue them a péece here and there and that either must be the bare letter as M. Stapleton calleth it or els such expositions as it shall please them to leauen the dough withall And is this now the perfect bodie of that shadow the veritie of that figure set forth in Moses order or not rather the full accomplishing of the Scribes and Pharisies doings whom they haue so followed in not giuing vp a coppie to their Princes in wresting defacing and taking away Gods worde that theirs may better be said to be a very shadow and figure of the Popish priests dealings herein And that we rather expresse the veritie of that figure and shadow of Moses order rendring vp to our Princes a full perfect and sincere coppie of Gods lawe that they may write it out set it forth haue it by them and meditate therein day and night as King Dauid counsayleth to learne thereby to be wise and feare the Lord their God and by them all their subiects And thus his importune vrging of this place hath so properly helpt his matter forwarde that where he saith the Bishop left it quite out as making directry against him what soeuer the Bishop did it had bene better for M. Stapl. to haue left it quite out also or not to haue triumphed so much on that which at the better view thereof so directly maketh against all his popishe Priestes But for all this M. Stapleton will proue that the popish priestes must not onely haue the handling of Gods worde but also that they can not be deceyued nor erre in the sense thereof And this will he proue euen by the Protestants them selues For sayth he as the Protestants them selues are forced by plaine wordes to confesse that they knowe not the true worde or booke of God but by the Churche whiche from time to time deliuered these bookes euen so by all reason and learning they shoulde also confesse that the Churche can no more be deceyued in deliuering the sense of the sayde worde than in deliuering the worde it selfe VVhich seeing they will not confesse for then we were forthwith at a point and ende with all their errours and heresies they must nedes continue in the same The argument is this The Protestants confesse that they know not the worde of God but by the Churche of Christ that kéepeth witnesseth and agnizeth the same from time to time Ergo the Protestants must néedes confesse that the Church he meaneth the Popishe priestes in deliuering of the worde can not be deceyued in the sense thereof In stéede of aunswere hereto master Stapleton him selfe maketh a preoccupation for perceyuing the falsenesse and follie thereof woulde soone be reiected VVhich seeing sayth he they will not confesse for then we were at a point with all their errours and heresies they must needes continue in the same Do we not confesse master Stapleton that ye woulde haue vs confesse why then haue ye reasoned all this while thus fondly taking that for confessed which your selfe now are forced by plain wordes to confesse that we confesse not but vtterly denie that you be the Catholike Church that you haue deliuered these bookes from time to time which you haue rather hid away that you can not erre in the sense â—…f the scripture and such like wrong principles Which in déede if we shoulde falsely confesse with you then all the matter were at a poynt and ende as ye saye But since we denie it and reiect your fonde reasoning à petitione principij it is tyme that ye séeke out other arguments more substantiall or else as your cause is at a poynte or not worth a poynt so in conclusion ye stande on this poynt to slaunder vs as following euery man his owne heade and that we shal neuer haue done and errours will neuer cease more and more to encrease and multiplie vnlesse we take forth say you the lesson I haue shewed you And what lesson is that Forsooth that we must graunt and confesse to be most true all these your false principles And then we shall be your white sonnes and good scholers I dare say if once we would conne that lesson Ye would giue vs a fat remedie and leaue to play the fooles truands all day long if we would learne that lesson of yours But such scholemasters as yâ—… are such schollers ye desire to haue and suche lessons ye take them forth Caecus autem si caeco ducatum prestet ambo in foueam cadunt If the blinde leade the blinde both of them fall into the ditch Thus ye deceyued the princes and people in tymes past But God be praysed both Princes and people haue now taken forth that lesson out of Gods holy word that ye could not or neuer would teach read or expound vnto them Nowe when ye haue redde this lesson vnto vs with so false a glosse and commentarie vpon the text as ye complaine left out ye determine that the best remedie were the exact obseruation of this place that ye haue say you so wilyly and sleightly slipt ouer This is but a poynt of your apparant impudencie master Stapleton to set a beâ—…de face on the matter for God knoweth ye would nothing lesse than that the diligent reader shoulde exactly obserue this place Whiche if he did this place alone were there no more woulde sufficiently shewe howe ye haue haled and racked it and all the lawe of God besides That this place therefore if the exact obseruation thereof be the best remedie to your cause as ye say might remedie your cause the better I haue somewhat the more exactly obserued it and if your cause haue founde any remedie thereby muche good doe it you ye shall haue more of it So that I trust yée shall not néede to complaine of ouerslipping any thing materiall Which least ye should doe the Chapter shall be yet more exactly obserued than perchaunce ye would haue it to be And to begin with that ye quarrell at next as wilily and sleightly slipt ouer But most of all say you another sentence in the verie said Chapter And euen the next to this
ought to counte the Canonicall scriptures in so much that I might not their honour which is due to those men saued improue or refuse any thing in their writinges â–ª c. And writing to Paulina of the credite to be giuen to the Scripture Alijs vero testibus c. As for any other witnesses saith he or testimonies whereby thou arte moued to beleue ought to be it is lawfull for thee to beleeue it or not to beleeue it And so saith S. Herome Quod scripturae sacrâ—… authoritatem non habet eadem facilitate contemnitur qua recipitur That that hath not authoritie of the holy Scripture is as easily dispised as receyued So saith Chrysostome Nullis omnino credendum nisi dicant vel faciant quae conuenientia sunt scripturis sanctis Thou must beleue none without they say or do those things that are agreeable to the Scriptures And againe Si quid absque scriptura dicitur c. If any thing be spoken without the Scripture the knowledge of the hearers halteth nowe graunting now staggering now and then detesting the talke as vayne now and then as probable receyuing it But wheras the scripture is there the testimonie of Gods voice commeth forth both confirming the talke of the speaker and confirming the minde of the hearer So S. Cyprian Legat hic vnum verbum c. Let him reade the onely woorde and on this commaundement let the christian religion meditate and out of this scripture he shall finde the rules of all doctrine to flowe and to spring from hence and hither to returne what soeuer the Churches discipline doth conteyne So saith Cyrill Necessarium nobis est diuinas sequi liter as in nullo ab earum prascripto discodere It is necessâ—…rie for vs to follow the diuine writinges and to swerue in nothing from their prescript rule And 〈◊〉 these Fathers so all the Doctours be plaine not to allow much lesse to determine any doctrine not onely contrarie but also besides the worde of God. Nor the Auncient doctours onely but also diuerse of the popish writers affirme that neither the Churche the Bishops the Pope nor any prouincial or generall couÌ„cel hath powre to determine any doctrine to be true or false otherwise than onely by the authoritie of the Scriptures to declare them so to be So saith Thomas of Aquine In doctrina Christs Apostolorum c. In the doctrine of Christ and his Apostles all truth of faith is sufficiently layde forth Howbeit to beat downe the errours of heretikes and of peruerse men certaine opinions of faith ought many times to be declared And of the same minde also is your great captaine Frier Alphonsus de Castro who attributing farre more to the popish Church and the Pope than he ought to do yet in this point after long disputation and argumentes on the matter he concludeth Nullo ergo modo c. It can by no meanes therefore be that the church may make any new article of faith but that the which before was the true faith and yet was hidde from vs the churche by hir censure maketh that it may be knowne vnto vs Whereuppon appeareth that my Lord Abbate did miserably erre who expounding the chapter that beginneth Câ—…m Christus which is had in the booke of the Decretall epistles in the title de Hereticis saith that the Pope can make a newe article of the faithe But he must be borne withall being ignorant nor well weighing of what thing he spake this onely I see must be laide in his dish that he Iudged beyond the slipper for it is not the office of Canonistes to Iudge of heresie or of faith but the office of Diuines to whom Gods lawe is committed The Canonistes partes are to descant of the Popes lawe Looke they to it therefore least while they couet to sit on both stooles the taile come to grounde as is the Prouerbe Thus sharpely concludeth Alphonsus against my Lord Abbate and all popish Canonistes that would intermedle with writing in Diuinitie I knowe not whether you Master Stapleton were any such or nâ—… but many of your site are euen such as he speaketh of that woulde studie bothe the Popes lawes and Gods lawes togither and so lay them both in the duste For 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Christi Behal VVhat felowship is there betwene Christ and Belial Thus writeth he that neither the Pope nor his 〈◊〉 nor the Church can determine faith or hereâ—…ie without the worde of God. And so saith Ferus Cum contâ—…leris falsaâ—… doctrinâ—…m c. When you shall conferre the false doctrine ye shall finde out the errour For the onely holy Scripture is the rule of the truthe from the which whatsoeuer differeth or doth contrarie it is darnell and errour in what countenaunce soeuer outwarde it come forthe For he that is not with me is against me saith Christe Herevppon the Apostles and Disciples in the primitiue Churche did dayly search the Scriptures whether they were so or no. For oft time it commeth to passe that that is iudged errour which is not errour and contrarie wise Here therefore the Scripture iudgeth So Christe was Iudged a transgressour of the lawe but if ye conferre him with the Scripture you shall see he agreeth best therewith On the contrary the traditions of the Phariseys seemed good which not withstaÌ„ding Christ conferring with the Scripture plainly sheweth they are contrarie to the Scripture And therefore Dauid in all that octonarie desireth nothing els but to be directed by the worde of God. And the same Ferus in the eleuenth chap. of Matthew Baculus arundâ—…neus est quicquid extra verbum des traditur c. VVhat soeuer is giuen without the worde of God is a rodde of a reede For it is al onely the worde of God which we may safely leane vppon in so much that from hence thou mayst see what frowarde deceyuers they be that for the worde of God would onely set foorth vnto vs their dreames that is a rodde of a reede Hereuppon the true Apostles gloried most of all on this that they deliuered nothing but the woord of God so saith Peter Not following vnlearned â—…bles we make knowne to you the powre and presence of our Lord Iesus Christe so Paule doth glory that he receyued not the Gospell of men but by the reuelation of Iesus Christe Whereon he inferreth if therefore any preache any other thing let him be accursed As though he shoulde say â–ª we haue preached the woorde of God whereto ye may safely leane â–ª accursed therefore be he that for the certayne worde of God bringeth a rodde of a reede that is to say mannes feigninges Thus hitherto agrée euen these Papists with the auncient Fathers that nothing may be decided to be true or false neither by Church Councell Pope or any Man nor any Angell with out the authoritie of Gods worde so to iudge and confirme the same But say you by this rule it
and profitable to the soule yet vvill he not that any should be constrayned Thus sayth Alfonsus of Aerius opinion for fasting and not as you say master Stapleton that he made no dyfference betvveene him that fasted and that fasted not Whereas Aerius made a great difference and Alfonsus cleareth him of that you accuse him But howsoeuer Alfonsus in the other poynt wherin you let him go frée accuseth Aerius by S. Augustines testimonie if he altogither contemned all maner of fasting ordeyned by the Churche then are we cleared from béeing charged with him for we refuse onely the superstitious necessitis of the Popishe Churches lawes As for the true Churche of Christe if vpon any occasion some lawes of fasting should be made by hir toll vs where we haue sayd we would contemne them Yea it is apparant we yéelde obediently to those lawes of fasting ordeyned by the Quéenes Maiestie and hir realme the Churche of Englande whiche be not superstitious fastes nor binding the minde of the faster with any necessitie of conscience but made for the necessitie and policie of the Realme and state of our countrey And if the whole Church of Christ ordeine like lawes for fasting we shewe hereby how little we would with Aerius despise the same but we with the word of God and with the true Church of Christ in the Apostles times in the Primatiue age and in the auncient fathers dayes reiect all suche superstitions in fastes as the Popishe lawes and customes â—…o burden the Churche withall And thus dothe euen S. Augustine that noteth Aerius writing to Casulanus agaynst one Urbicus in Rome who would haue it obserued for a lawe and made a foolish booke theron that men should fast on Saterday and other dayes saying that Peter did so whom he calleth as the papistes do the head of the Apostles the porter of heauen and the foundation of the Church when he conuicted Simon Magus S Augustine improueth this tale by Peters concorde with all his fellow Disciples that vsed no suche faste And after long prouing and improuing he concludeth thus Si autem quontam huic quantum potus c. But bicause I thinke I haue answered this as sufficiently as I could if ye aske my sentence hereon I reuoluing it in my minde do see that in the Euangelicall and Apostolicall writings and in the whole instrument that is called the new Testament fasting is coÌ„maunded But on what dayes we shoulde not fast and on what dayes we should fast I finde it not defined by the commaundement of the Lorde or of the Apostles And by this I deeme that fasting agreeth fitter not in deede to obtayne righteousnesse which fayth obteineth wherein is the beautie inwarde of the kings daughter c. Howbeit in this fast or dinner on the Saterday nothing seemeth to me heerein to be kepte more safely and quietly than that he which eateth dispise not him that eateth not nor he which eateth not dispise not him which eateth For neither if we eate we shall abounde neither shall we want if we do not eate That is to say while we keepe companie with those among whome we liue and with whome we liue to God without offence taking in these things For as for that the Apostle saythe is true it is ill for the man that eateth through offence so is it ill for the man that by offence doth fast c. Thus farre saint Augustine agaynst the precise appointing of fast on the Saterday in whose time it was frée for euery Church to vse hir owne custome Yea as he concludeth with aunswere of Ambrose hereon VVhen I am at Millaine I fast not on the Saterday when I am at Rome I fast on the Saterday And to what Church ye come keepe the order thereof if ye will neither giue nor take offence Thus we sée first how the fastes of the Church of Rome were no such lawe to all other Churches to receyue from hir their order or dayes of fasting or else they had bene Aerians for then had both S. Augustine Ambrose to béene Aerians by master Stapletons rule and by the Popes obtrusion of his Churches fastes to all other Churches nowe But the Church of Millayne euen vnder his nose besydes those of Affrick were at that time of contrarie orders Secondly as it was of Saterdayes fast so was it also for Fridayes fast or any other daies or day as appeareth by Saint Augustines generall rule in appealing to the Scripture and there finding no day at all appoynted As he sayth afterward againe Sed quoniam noÌ„ inâ—…enimus c. But bicause we finde not as I haue rehearsed aboue in the Euangelicall and Apostolicall writings which properly perteyne to the reuealing of the newe Testament that on any certaine dayes it is euidently commaunded we should keepe fastes c. Thirdly that what dayes soeuer they did kéepe fast they did it not as any meritorious act to obteyne righteousnesse thereby For this was the difference that the Papists put betwene him that fasted and that fasted not which is a thousand partes worse heresie than was that of Aerius I aske none other witnesse herein than euen one of your owne side Frier Ferus who inueying agaynst the Phariseys for ascribing righteousnesse to their sacrifices and ceremonies But wee sayth he do all things preposterously placing righteousnesse in these things which of themselues are neither good nor bad neglecting those things wherein true righteousnesse consisteth But one errour draweth on another For from hence followeth first that we make to our selues a greater conscience of the transgression of the Churches or Monkishe decrees than of the transgression of the diuine precepts Secondly hereon it commeth that we easily iudge other that obserue not the same as here did the disciples of Iohn VVhen Paule notwithstanding teacheth let no man iudge you in meate or in drinke or by reason of a feast day c. Item he that eateth not let him not iudge him that eateth c. To conclude it is farre an other thing to doe the worke than to put a trust in the worke It is good to fast and to keepe the Churches decrees but to put a trust in them is not only not good but wicked For this cause therfore Christ required not fasting other bodily obseruations he exacted not of those that are his or prescribed ought at all of these things not that he iudged such things of theÌ„selues to be euill or vnlawfull but that they should not â—…all thither againe that is to were to a trust of workes from whiche he woulde haue them most farre The which surely had chauÌ„ced if he had exacted any such thing of those that are his as nowe we perceyne is committed in the Churches constitutions For euen as sone as euer these coÌ„stitutions began to be giuen men began also therwith to trust in them And so by little little we haue
virgin Marie Quilibet tanque per portam in coelum ascendit Euery man euen as by a gate ascendeth to heauen By these immoderate prayses or rather outragious blasphemies Master Stapleton ye stirred the people quite neglecting Christ to inuocate the Uirgine Marie And ye exemplifie it by fables to confirme the people therein Ye tell vs how an Abbot and his holy Couent sayling in a tempest one called on Saint Nicholas an other on Saint Andrewe and euerie one vppon his peculier Patrone but none called vpoÌ„ God the Abbot chod them all and bad them call on the mother of mercie Which when they did forthwith the Seas were calme Ye tell vs of many other that being vexed with spirites haue sought manye remedies nowe holy water nowe one thing nowe another yea they haue called vpon Christ vpon the Trinitie and haue had so little helpe that they haue rather bene much worse onely when they were taught to lift vp their handes and crie Saint Marie helpe me then forthwith the spirite hath fled away all afrayde as he had beene smitten with a stone and sayde the cursed deuill enter into his mouth that hath taught thee that and so being vanquished neuer came againe Ye tell vs a noble Storie of a Spanish woman called Lucie to whome for saluting the virgin Marie the virgin at the deliuerance of hir childe came and was the midwife and at the Christning the Godmother and Christ the Godfather and the childe was named after the Godmother and called Marianus And how at hir Churching Christ himselfe sang Masse and how at the offertorie Lucie was preferred to go and offer and kisse the Priestes hande before the virgine Marie and what honour the Uirgin gaue hir aboue hir selfe saying This is your day of Churching now I was churched long ago And all for saying the Aue Marie Ye tell vs of a Strumpet that all hir life did no good work saue that she would say an Aue Marie and heare a Masse on Saterday which ye call our Ladies day as Sunday is called the Lordes day and on hir death bed this harlot sayde O Ladie Queene and mother though I did neuer any good yet I trust to thy mercie and to thee I commende my spirite And when the fiends would haue taken hir soule the mother of mercie tooke hir soule from them saying do ye not knowe that shee saluted me dayly and euery Saterday heard a Masse and at hir death commended hir soule to me And when they alleaged hir sinnes I tell you quoth shée that soule was neuer damned that serued mee and commended it selfe to me and so she draue them away and caryed the soule with hir Ye tell vs of a knight that neuer did other good but at morning and Euening say an Aue Marie and by the grace of the Virgin he was saued And hereon ye conclude a rule Quod orandum sit c. That at the poynt of death we must pray mother of grace mother of mercie defende thou vs from the enimie and keepe vs in the hower of death And then we are safe Yea as Anselme sayth Impossibile est vt pereat It is impossible hee should perish syth by the vertue of the Aue Marie the worlde was renued And that Redempturus deus genus humanuâ—… vniuersum precium contulit in Mariam sine ea nihil possumuâ—… sine ea miseri sumus sine ea factum est nihil God going about to redeeme mankinde conferred al the price therof vpon Mary VVithout hir we caÌ„ do nothing without hir we are wretches without hir nothing was made To conclude ye make hir to be all in all And as Albertus Magnus in his booke of hir prayses saith Est autem opus c. The booke of the beginning of the Lordes incarnation describing the mysterie of our redemption to the prayse honour and glorie of the most glorious and alonly truly honorable aboue euery Creature the virgin mother of god By the most speciall confidence of whole helpe we take this worke in hande And in the mercie of hir euen as in the most firme anchore of our hope we looke for the ende of the perfourmance and the rewarde of the labour VVho is the moouer of the wil the cause of the worke and the beholder of the intention Thus blasphemously ascribeth Albertus all these things to hir euen in the Preface of his booke But what excéeding more blasphemies he filleth his volume withall were infinite to recite Looke your selfe M. St. if with shame ye can sustaine to reade them Neither is all this the errours of priuate men but the dooing of all your whole Church For euen in the solemnities of your Masse haue ye not in the Sequences of our Ladies Masses as ye cal them Aue terrarum domina c. Haile ladie of the earth holy queene of heaueÌ„ let the heauens and all the company of saincts bring forth melodie to thee the laÌ„ds the floudes the woods and groaues resound c. By thee mother we craue that the childrens sinnes be abolished and we be all brought to the euerlasting ioyes of Paradise Againe Seda nobis bella Appease thou warres hayle starre of the seas thou mother giue to vs the true peace giue vs help changing the name of Eue. Driue away our euils drawing vs without bitternesse forgiue vs our crimes aske al good things let the Sonne and the Father be giuen by thee O mother c. that which Eue hath taken away thou only O mother giuest Through thee the people recouer their former lost strength thou art the gate of the high King by the which gate we enter into the court c. And againe The ladie of the world c. is the cause of our saluation the gate of life Againe Pray euery man to hir in euery houre and call thou vppon hir defence Sing sing Aue Maria with the force of thy harte â–ª with thy voice with thy vow c. And in the third reason that ye giue why ye dedicate the Saterday to hir as the Sonday to the Lord ye say in redde letters Tertia ratio est c. The third reason is bicause the Saterday is the gate and entraÌ„ce to the Sonday but the Sonday is the day of rest and betokeneth eternall life VVherevpon when we be in the grace of our Ladie we are as it were in the gate of Paradise Therefore bicause euen she is to vs the gate to the kingdome of heauen which is figured by the Sonday we keepe for the solemnitie of hir the Seuenth day which goeth before the Sonday Thus doth your whole Church yea and that in your holy Masse booke ascribe to hir euen as much as any of the other What say ye now to all this M. Stap. haue ye any shifte of descant to runne vnto any distinction behinde to alleage any figge leafe to couer your shame that all this kinde of inuocation may be thought
no Idolatrie to a creature nor blasphemie to God well if all this will not serue giue me I pray you occasion hereafter to shew yet furder many mo farre worse abhominations than all these But I thinke you be ashamed alreadie and will confesse that there are at the least some abuses But what soeuer you will graunt I dare say some of your side that would neuer haue beleeued such wickednesse to haue bene wrought such doctrine to haue bene taught and printed will hereafter haue more regarde of their owne soules health than to beléeue such false Prophets as you For how will ye spare to deceyue them that spared not to blasphenie God If ye say it was not generall I haue shewed you in many of your owne confessions yea euen in the Masse booke that it was the publike seruice of your Churche If ye say it was reformed in the later times I haue shewed ye euen your last Primers and Masse bookes set foorth and authorized in Queene Maries reigne to conteyne as Idolatrouse and blasphemouse prayers as did the other If ye say it was but Intercession and meditation I haue shewed ye that it was not onely helpe mercie grace and euerlasting lyfe but euen as muche that ye ascribed to the mother of Christ as for your liues ye can deuise to giue to Christ yea and that many times ye giue much more to hir than to him If ye say now that one breakes no square all this is but to one and that to the Mother of God Although this were to vile an excuse for any Christian eares to heare and the question is whether any besides God is to be inuocated yet not withstanding it is euen as false as all your other excuses For ye haue not so stinted ye haue not onely inuocated other besides and that not onely as intercessours with Orate pronobis but ascribed helpe to them also Yea there is not almost one Saint mencioned in the whole Legende to whome ye attribute not some or other proper vertue wherein ye inuocate him or hir not onely to be an Intercessour and Aduocate but to be an helper patrone defender deliuerer and the giuer of it Yea as it is declared in the life of S. Peter euen as the Heathen did make menne their Goddes you make likewise the Saintes your Gods. Do ye not tell vs how in the time of S. Cornelius the Pope Greekes stale away the bodies of the Apostles Peter and Paule but the Diuels that were in the Idols were constrayned by the diuine vertue of god And cried and sayde ye men of Rome succour hastely your Gods which be stolen froÌ„ you This ye say they cried being constrained therto by the diuine powre And thus as ye make them Gods to go before you helpe you in euery thing so ye inuocate them and giue them godheads If now Vigilantius were liuing should crie out of your blasphemouse inuocation should he be an heretike therfore yea surely should he with you M. Stapl. and all that speake against you But I pray you let S. Augustine be his companion in this heresie Non ad creaturam saith he debemuâ—… tendere sed ad ipsum creatorem de quo si aliud quà m oportet ac sese res habeat nobis persuadetur perniciosissimo errore decipimur VVee ought not to go to a creature but euen to the verie creator of whome if we persuade our selues any other thing than the truth is we are deceyued with a most perniciouse errour This is his iudgement of all these your wicked fables As for the assertion that we holde against you that we haue to God no other aduocate to call vppon but our Sauiour Iesus Christ would he haue called vs Heretikes or Scismatikes thinke you or Uigilantians therefore no saith he Iesum Christum iustum ipsum c. Wee haue euen Iesus Christ him selfe the aduocate to the Father he is the propitiation of our sinnes he that hath helde this hath made no heresie he that hath helde this hath made no Scisme So that we are here cleared of heresie and the Scisme and Heresie lighteth on your selfe Master Stapleton As for your fonde distinction S. Augustine reiecteth of intercession betwéene God and vs as false and no true Religion Religat nos religio saithe he vni omnipotenti â–ª Deo quia interâ—…mentem nostram c. Religion is that that bindeth vs to the onely almightie god Bicause betweene our minde with the which we vnderstande the Father and the truth that is the light by the which we vnderstande him there is no creature put betweene And as S. August thus confuteth your distinction of intercession so would he haue your foolishe dotage on Saintes corrected in thinking you did them honour in seruing them when they reioyce if we serue onely God and are offended that ye should ascribe suche honour and seruice as ye did vnto them Non libenter 〈◊〉 They take it not sayth he in good parte yea they know it is not lawfull to giue it to any but to God Cui vni fas esse nouerunt To whom onely they knovve it is lavvful And therfore those Saints that ye write appeared to such and suche Heremites Monkes or Nuâ—…nes and woulde thus and thus be honored fasted for prayed vnto serued and called vpon were but either the deuils illusions in their names or your owne inuentions and he would haue counâ—…elled you in this maner NoÌ„ ergo creaturae puâ—…ius â—… creatorâ—… serutamus â—…e euanâ—…scamus in cogitationibus nostris Let vs not rather serue a creature than the Creator lest we vanish away in our own imaginations as in these fables you haue giuen to a creature more than to the Creator Neyther the excellencie of the creature can excuse you that bicause she is so excelleÌ„t a creature ye may make supplications to hir although ye might so do to none besides No sayth S. Aug. Uni deo semper in omnibus nulli autem quantum utâ—… excellenti creaturae supplicandum VVee muste make supplication to God only and that alwayes and in all things but to no creature neuer so muche excellent Thus will S. August make all you Papists heretikes But since ye would before haue proued vs heretikes by Epiphanius let vs sée if nowe ye will stande to Epiphanius iudgement in the inuocation euen of the virgin Marie For euen then began this erroure by the seducing of false and ignorant priestes and the superstitious people to take roote so that in déede ye may vaunt of antiquitie of this errour but other than a wicked errour be it neuer so olde neyther you can make it now nor Epiphanius tooke it then other wise He calleth it follie superstition blasphemie furie madnesse the worship that certain women gaue hir in his tyme and yet was it not the hundreth part so much as the Papists in our tyme haue giuen to hir Reuera sanctum
their swordes villes bowes and gunnes to lay on and strike onely when the Priests bid them and those onely whome the Priestes appoint to be slaine Now forsoth and forsoth M. St. this is a proper dealing of Princes in Ecclesiasticall causes and a goodly kinde of making lawes and constitutions for the furtherance of Christes religion Well whatsoeuer it be this is all they are like to haue of you and yet will ye kéepe touche with them in your graunt to But thinke ye M. St. was this all that princes ought to do and nothing else but to punish heretikes on this fashion nothing else say you for that was in deede the very occasion why S. Aug. wrote all this A â—…a M. St. then I perceyue S. Aug â–ª wrote something more than ye would perticulerly answere vnto Well say you what soeuer he wrote this was the very occasion whie he wrote it to make lawes for punishing Heretikes and nothing else How M. St to make the Emperor that then was none other dealer in their punishment than your Pope maketh the Emperour now or than your Prelates made Q. Marie of late your executioner and the Nobilitie your droyles whome soeuer ye determine to prick by your excoÌ„munication condemnation what fooles were the Donatists then to crie out vpon the Emperour This were like the furie of the angrie Dogge that being bitte with a stone wreaketh his anger vpon the stone and not on him that hurled it What fellon is offended with the executioner or layeth his death to the beheaders charge when the Prince commaundeth to behead him but to the Prince But in this case you are the Princes that are the Priests and the Prince is but as it were the stone in your bande is but the executioner of your sentence Why should the Donatists then haue blamed the Prince except the Prince then had beene not the Priestes instrument but euen the principall in making lawes of punishment for them And so did Saint August acknowledge the Prince He decréed not lawes for the Emperour to put in execution but desired the Emperour to reforms them by suche sharpe lawes as séemed best to himselfe And although this were the verie occasion as ye say why Saint Augustine wrote all this Yea though it were the onely occasion to of writing all that he wrote what is that to this purpose For whatsoeuer the occasion were the occasion is not vrged but the wordes that he wrote A particuler occasion maye haue generall prooues The occasion of Saint Augustines wryting ye saye was the punishing of the Donatists And yet woulde Saint Augustine so haue written thoughe they had béene other Heretikes And it serueth agaynst all Heretykes Whie bycause hys prooues are generall whatsoeuer were the occasion And yet his occasion was not onely aboute the punishing of the Donatists for the Donatists denyed more than hys authoritie in punishing them they denyed hys authoritie to â—…ette foorth the true Religion and to ouersee that it bee in all estates duely preserued This sayde they was committed to Fishers not to Souldiours to Prophets not to Kinges as you nowe saye the lyke it was committed to the Apostles and Priestes not to Kings This was another verie occasion also and many other besydes might be whie Saint Augustine wrote all this But what is this All this that ye speake vppon I pray ye tell vs at least the summe of all this that saint Augustine wrote And then shall we sée if it be all none other but lawes of punishment for Heretikes that he layde and ment or no. And whether you haue hitherto truly sayde and ment or no all your falsehoode will then appeare Let vs here therefore resume some of those Testimonies of Saint Augustine God dothe inspire sayth he into Kinges that they shoulde procure the commaundement of the Lorde to be performed or kept in their Kingdoms Is this onely master Stapleton for punishing of Heretikes Againe In that hee is also a King hee serueth in making lawes of conuenient force for to commaunde iust things and to forbidde the contrarie Is this onely ment of lawes to punishe Heretikes Againe The Ensample of the King of Niniue that it apperteyned to the Kinges charge that the Niniuites shoulde pacifie Gods wrath Was thys onely mente of making lawes for punishing Heretikes What Heretikes were in Niniue Heathen Idolaters there were store but of Heretikes we read none And who made the decree of their fasting and repentance not the Prophete he onely denounced the wrath and iustice of God nor highe Priest of Aarons order was there any among them that the Scripture mencioneth Idolatrous Priestes no doubt they had more than ynowe but the lawe of that Ecclesiasticall discipline was not set out by them but by the King. Generally to conclude Saint Augustine sayth that the auncient actes of the godly Kinges mencioned in the Propheticall Bookes were figures of the lyke factes to bee done by the godlye Princes in the tyme of the newe Testament Were nowe these theyr doynges and auncient actes nothing else but lawes and constitutions for punishing Hereâ—…ykes and false teachers Were all the constitutions and doyngs of Moyses Iosue Dauid Salomon Iosaphat Ezechias Iosias and others nothing else Master Stapleton but this O good GOD that euer any that shoulde professe the studie of diuinitie shoulde be founde so false and shamelesse not onely thus to dallie with Princes but also to delude the fathers and the Scriptures and all to enfringe and takeaway the Princes interest and authoritie Nowe that ye haue thus in your first part brought the matter about giuing a graunt in wordes and expounding the wordes haue taken away the graunt againe ye enter into your seconde part to set a fresh on vs as ye did in your former Chapter would make these testimonies of S. Aug. to serue against vs which ye go about two maner of ways First hauing nowe abridged the princes authoritie to nothing else but to make lawes to punish Heretikes ye crie out vpon vs that we be the heretikes and that they must punish vs â–ª Secondly ye woulde proue that we be the Heretikes to be punished for denying euen this title to Princes of punishing Heretikes And for the first part ye say But nowe that master Horne may not vtterly leese all his labour herein let vs see howe these matters do truely and trimly serue agaynst his deare brethren and master Foxes holy Martyrs Here is all made sure on euery side euery way preuented least the poore â—…elie Protestants shoulde escape your violence by any starting hole First you your selues our enemies will onely haue the making of the decrées and lawes what shall be true religion what shall be false Secondly the Prince shall haue nothing to doe in examining the matter betwéene vs who haue in déede the true religion who haue the false but they must beléeue before hand that that which you shall say against vs is
that any euer noted him of heresie in this point And I thinke my opinion therein to be more true than yours for proofe whereof I will be reported by such witnesses as I thinke you will not except against euen by your Colledge of Diâ—…es in Louaine Who affirme in their censure vpon this authour that Pâ—…a solum religiosa com â—…endat c. Nicephorus coÌ„mendeth only godly and religious things Nicephoâ—… historia ecclesiaâ—…â—…yois mandâ—… c. not only the ecclesiastical historie of faith and religion may be printed but with much and publike profite of the Church This coulde not haue bene true but an euident false lie if that the author as you saye had so highly aduaunced the Emperour for restoring and maintaining of that heresie Moreouer in the verie title of the boke priuileged by the Emperour Ferdinand he is entituled with this Epithete scriptor verè catholicus â–ª a writer Catholike indeede and so likewise by that name of a Catholike writer he is highly commeÌ„ded to the Emperor Ferdinande both by Lazius a catholike and Langus a catholike as you accept the name of catholike who traÌ„slated him out of Greke into Latine at the said Emperors commaundemeÌ„t Who also in plain speach to the Emperor affirmeth Volumen Nicephori de vera synceraque pietate conscriptum esse the volume of Nicephorus is writteÌ„ eueÌ„ of true sincere godlines But what néede we cite all these against you when that herein ye coÌ„troll your self in your fourth boke of this counterblast for although ye there saye he is no Papist nor a Latine but a Grecian infected also with their schisme yet notwithstaÌ„ding ye grauÌ„t he is in al other things catholike thus ye mollifie the matter with the name of scisme dally with Nicephor there which is yet somewhat gentler than to make him an heretike an high aduancer of heresies as here ye do And there yée promised to stande to his arbitrement about you Popes praises why then so storme ye at him here for his iudgement in the Princes praises But still I sée we must beare with you so must al your doctors especially sith ye be here caried awaye in so huge a raging tempest of your furie against the allegations of Nicephorus here cited by the B. And good cause ye had to kick and winch thereat for they rub ye a litle on the gall and therefore you not onely slaunder Nicephorus being the author but fourthly also and wherevpon you chiefly stande most 〈◊〉 ye reuile the Emperour calling his doinges wicked working and his person a wretched heretike whom notwithstanding this your railing not onely Nicephorus commendeth for a most godly Prince but also LaÌ„gus in his owne preface and his other notes to the Preface of Nicephorus giuing him as great a praise saying he was an Emperour flourishing in all vertues and many ornamentes Againe An Emperour begotten by the verye prouidence of God. Againe Godlynesse and religion was from the beginning of his Empire his greatest care And that to him were giuen the chiefest vertues of an Emperour â–ª Againe In this Emperour being absolute almost in all vertues and ornamentes is portrayed apaterne of a most excellent Prince Yea that he was another Noe another Moses Againe This was the Emperours chiefe prayse that he attayned all the whole vertues of the best auncient Princes And that the Emperours godlynesse and religion is commended chiefly among his other vertues Thus doth your catholike LaÌ„gus in his notes vpoÌ„ Nicephor preface set him out coÌ„trary to that you say was a wicked worker and wretched heretike But wherto in the end do you so reuile this emperor forsoth euen to this end by him not only to deface the B. allegation but also to dashe dawne the Princes supreme gouernment as though it consisted altogither or chiefly herevpon For so you make your conclusion of this part saying And thus withall ye see vpon how good amaÌ„ vpon how good a cause M. Horne buildeth his new supremacie to plucke downe the Popes old supremacie As for the newnesse of this supremacie and likewise the oldnesse of your Popes supremacie is nowe M. Stapleton no coÌ„uenient place to discusse it hath partly ben touched before shal God willing be examined more herafter In the mean seasoÌ„ good leaue haue ye to crake of old vpbraid new at your pleasure so long as you bring no new but old rotteÌ„ proues therof though here ye alledge neither new nor old at al you wil neuer I perceiue leaue your old fashioÌ„s ye threap on the B. that he buildeth this supremacy on this emperor No M. St. the B. buildeth on no such grouÌ„ds but on the word of god It is you that build the Popes supremacie on meÌ„s donatioÌ„s the most of your Popish doctrines traditioÌ„s of meÌ„s inueÌ„tioÌ„s The grounde of the Bishops argument as ye haue hearde was out of Gods worde that the Prince is Gods minister only he shewed it out of S. Augustine and Chrysostome and exemplified it by the example of Constantine wherein this ministerie doth chiefly consist With whome sith Nicephorus doth so agrée in the description of a Princes chiefe ministerie were Nicephorus otherwise an heretike or were he not in this he sheweth himselfe none and were it Andronicus or Emanuell and were he an hereticke in that point or were he sounde the Bishop medleth not withall nor groundeth or buildeth vpon him Onely he setteth forth Nicephorê° iudgemeÌ„t either what this Prince was or what he ought to be And proueth the the things which he commeÌ„deth him for whether he deserued such commendation or no let other examine are the principall pointes of a Princes chiefe ministerie And what hath the B. done here that your Catholike Langus doth not commending this Emperor to Ferdinandus likening Ferdinandus vnto him saying of him that either he was Sicut â—…um c. Such another as our historier depainteth him out in his ornaments in the moste part of all vertue to bee worshipped most like your Maiestie or else in the person of him declaring that he ought to be such an one as he described which is the maner of some Philosophers and also of Historiographers composing orations and bookes of great Princes he hath confirmed so many and so great ornamentes of your Maiestie foreseeing as it were euen then in his minde that his worke hereafter being turned into Latine shoulde at length be published vnder that Princes name whom he in Greke had most truly adorned with his prayse If it were lawful thus for your Langus to apply these Emperors prayses to the Emperor Ferdinand may not the Bishop apply them in general as a paterne of all good Princes duties and therfore where ye scoffe at this calling it in scorne a goodly and godly president setting your moâ—…kes aside I maye well aunswere with Langus whatsoeuer the Emperours iudgement or the Emperours life were or the author also of these
of the othe or statute Why say you they all appertaine not to the inferiour ministerie whiche ye graunt to Priests and Bishops only but to the supreme iurisdiction and gouernement which you doe annexe to the Prince only In déede these thinges you make to appertayne to youre Pope to whome ye giue such supreme iurisdiction and gouernement as annexeth all this to his papal authoritie But ye doe wickedly herein and iniurie to our sauiour Christe to whom only such supreme iurisdiction and gouernment belongeth and vnder whome the inferiour ministers maye do these things not as they please but as he hathe prescribed them The Iurisdiction and authoritie appertaineth onely to ministers bishops or priestes as ye call them To whome herein we doe not as ye sclaunder vs graunt only an Inferiour ministerie but euen an higher ministerie than wée giue to Princes In their spirituall ministration they are higher ministers but in gouerning them ouerséeing them directing punishing maynteyning placing or displacing them as they shall do their dueties well or yll the Prince therein is higher than they and his gouernement vnder God is supreme and chiefe in all suche causes as belongeth to the Ecclesiasticall persons or any other in his territories This is that the statute ascribeth and the othe requireth farre from youre malicious and sclaunderous slate of the question that you haue here deuised Whiche as ye say the truthe therein the Bishop proueth not for it is no part for him to proue But that this is the â—…slue he fully preueth Yea and proueth the full contentes of the Othe also to the whyche ye woulde so fayne driue the question nowe in hande After ye haue thus sette vp a false and wrong state and quarelled at the verie state of the question in hande playnly and truely set downe by the Bishop ye enter into your second part wherin prefixing an other marginal note Master Hornes dissembling falsehood ye chalenge the B. to omit two clauses of the statute the one at the beginning therof the other at the ende The former is this That no foraine person shall haue any maner of authoritie in any spirituall cause within this realme By whiche wordes is flatly excluded saye you all the authoritie of the whole bodie of the Catholike Churche without the realme as in a place more conuenient towardes the ende of the laste booke it shall by Gods grace be euidently proued If that be a place more conuenient why doe ye anticipate it here not so conueniently where it appertayneth not to the question in hand The Bishop now medleth not with that parcell that excludeth all foraine authoritie but onely with that parte that expresseth what manner of authoritie it is that the Quéenes Maiestie taketh vpon hir And this the Bishop playnely and faithefully dothe not here intermedlyng with other pointes of the statute But where that conuenient occasion is there ye shall sée the Bishop touch that that here ye call for And there a Gods name answere hym if ye can But your fingers itched ye coulde not holde youre hande but néedes ye muste euen nowe haue a fling thereat for a farewell Althoughe therein ye proprely ouertourne youre selfe and yet to make somewhat of the matter yée playe all the false playe yée can For where the Statute mencioneth onely anye forraine persone to haue no authoritie you conclude that it excludeth all the authoritie of the whole bodye of the Catholike Churche withoute the Realme Where as there the Statute mencioneth not the catholike Churche at all And besides who séeth not a great difference betwéene these twayne any persons authoritie and the whole bodies authoritie And who séeth not withall that if England be a parcell and membre of the whole bodie of the Catholike Churche of Christe and all the membres make one vnited bodie then neither is the whole bodie foraine to the members thereof nor the particular membres foraine to the whole bodie Nor in déede any parte of this mysticall bodie is excluded But in that respect that one countreyman is foraine to an other suche foraine authoritie of any foraine person is thereby excluded But in regarde of the bodye of the Catholike churche if ye meane Christes holie Catholike Churche there is neyther Iew nor Gréeke Scythian nor Barbarian nor any forayne Countreyman we are no straungers and forainers but Citizens of the Saintes and of the householde of God and all compacte in Christe nor any is excluded oute of this Churche if he be in and of this Churche bycause he is not forayne And where ye saye the whole bodie of the Churche without the Realme youre wordes implie a contradiction to themselues For if the realme be a parcell of the bodie of the churche whiche perchaunce you will denye or if the realme be a parcell of the bodie of the Churche whyche you wyll not denie then that which is without the realme is not the whole bodie as ye call it But lettyng this goe what is that authoritie be it of the most part or be it as you saâ—… of the whole bodie of the Churche without the realme that ye would haue the realme allowe If it be the verie Catholike church of Christe then is it also the wyfe and spouse of Christ and hath no authoritie to make any faith doctrine or religion besides that hir husband hath appointed neyther England Fraunce Germanie Italy Spayne or any other parte or all the whole bodie of this spouse hath authoritie to doe it And looke what parte doth not this or presumeth to doe otherwise becommeth foraine and as foraine is cut off euen as a rotten and putrified member seuered from the bodie Euery braunche sayth Christ that beareth not fruite in me my father will cut it away But if this authoritie be for such ecclesiastical discipline as Christ hath giuen therof no expresse coÌ„maundement then euery seuerall part may receyue or not receyue the same and yet is not estranged or made forrain from the whole corps of Christendome yea though the most parte of the churche besides authorised and vsed the same But euery particular Churche hath in it selfe authoritie to establish orderly suche disciplines as shall be thought best and fittest for their estate and yet is there no diuision or schisme from the whole thereby But sith ye referre your selfe to a more conuenient place where ye say it shall by Gods grace be euidently proued it is not much conuenient to stand any more hereon sith it is here but accessorie and ye confesse your self that ye doe not but ye will hereafter by Gods grace proue it euidently But I doubt me of two things the one of your euident prouing therof the other that ye will doe the same by the grace of God the dooing wherof is agaynst the grace of God. The other clause saye you you omitte at the ende of the statute whiche is this That all maner superiorities that haue or may lawfully be exercised
that M. Stapl. passeth so slightly ouer proue the full matter M. Stapleton letteth go the principall mat ter and quarels at the margin Stapl. 77. a. The englishing of the worde supremus The last taken for the chiefest The proportion betweene the stay of an anchor and the staye of a Prince Sadliâ—…g â—… Cowe Beggerly shifts Stapl. 78. b Nicephorus his amplification Stap. fol. 78. b The force of a metaphore 2. Tim. â—… Stapl. 78. b. 1. Tim. 8. M Stapletons order to this diuision Stapl. 79 b Stapl. 80. a. Stapl. 80. a Comparison of learning betweene bishop Gardineâ—… bishop White and Bishop Horne Sta. 80. a. Prouer. 12. Wherfore Nicephorus dedicated his ecclesiastical historie to the Emperour Prefa Niceph. The princes exact iudgement and censure in ecclesiastical matters The Princes reformation of the priestes and of the Churche Stapl. 80. b 79. â—… M. Stapl. inconstancie and contradiction Stapl. 80. b M Stap. grauÌ„teth the good regiment of magistrates to be the spring of true religioÌ„ Prosperitie religion ioyned in a Prince Prâ—…fa Niceph. Stap. 80. b. Stapl. 85. â—… The Grecians fell into the Turkes captiuitie after this submission to the Pope The Papistes haue as muche cause or more to beware by the Grecians captiuitie than the ProtestaÌ„ts The Pope the chiefe cause of the Greke emperours decay The Pope also the chief cause of the Weast Emperours decay The Greeke church neuer became captiue to the Turke till they became thrall to the Pope Stap. 81. a The countreys that obeyed the Pope become thrall to the Turks cap tiuitie Stapl. 81. â—… Blearing the readers eyes How M. Stapl. answeres the Bishops allegation Cyril epi. 17. â—…om â–ª 4. Wherein the Emperoures chief care consisted Obscuritie 2. Cor. 2. Stapl. 8 â—… â–ª b Generalities Particularities Cyril epi. 17. tom 4. The discussing and debating Ecclesiasticall matters argueth not the supreme gouernement of theÌ„ How the Papistes elude the examples of christian princes Stapl. 81. b Stapl. 81. b. M. Stapl. false and subtile translation Principalitie of priest â—…ode Priesthoode sprong not froÌ„ Peter Gal. 2. The Papistes saye S. Iames sayd the 〈◊〉 Masse Peter no massing priest What manner of principalitie of priesthoode Valentinian ment Concil tom 1. The Epistle of Placidia to Theodosius The Epistle of Eudoxia to Theodosius Theodosius Epistle to Valentinian Wherein the Emperour had the gouernement of the councell The Emperor decreeth the decree of the Councell No appeale after the Emperours decree Stapl. 82. â—… Stapl. 82. â—… Act. â—… Stapl. 82. â—… Pag. 19. b. M St. order to this diuision Stapl. 82. b. cap. 20. The state of the question Supra pag. 136. Stap. 82. b. The supreme authoritie the Papistes grauÌ„t to Princes and in what sense they graunt it Stap. 82. b. What state of the question M. St. setteth downe The oth of the supremacie The othe and the statute slaâ—… deâ—…ed by the Papistes Supreme gouernmeÌ„t is not all maner of gouernement How the ministers are higher or inferiour Stapl. 83. a. Stapl. 83. a. The statute eâ—… cluding any forain persons authoritie excludeth net the authoritie of the whole churche Gala. 3. Coloss. 3. Ephe. 2. What authoritie it is that the true catholike church hath Iohn 15. Stap. 8â—… a M. Stapl. quarell for vniting the supremacie to the crovvne M. Stapl. at the ende of his booke woulde leaue a scruple in the readers head of misselyking the state The answere to M. Stapl. inconneâ—…ence of a Turke or an heretike to haue this supremacie Difference betwene a Turke and an heretike What a Turke would doe if he had the crovvne Iob. 34. Psalm 147. The Princes certain and pre sente righte oughte not to be forsakeÌ„ for feare of vncertain inconueniences that may be doubted to come Difference betwene a Princes authoritie and a Princes tyrannie The Statute cleared from M. Stap. inconuenieÌ„ce Howe muche the Papistes regarde the crowâ—…e of 〈◊〉 How well the Pope wisheth to England Whether M. St. inconuenience wold not fall oute if the clause of supre macie were vnited to the Pope What the lawe respecteth in the statute Stapl. 83. a. b. Stapl. 83. b Stapl. â—…3 b. Stapl. 83. b. The excuses of the Papists Stapl. 83. b The Papistes pretence of zeale to God to disobey their Prince The absolute obedience to God hindreth not the conditionall obedience to the Prince What the Papists meane here by God. Hovv Thomas Becket died for Gods cause Sta. 83. b. The accusation of vs. Stapl. 83. b The B. charged for omitting the Principall ecclesiasticall cause Cap. 63. b M. Stapletons contradiction M. Stap. wold driue the B from his issue The Prince and the statute slâ—…undered Difference betwene ecclesiasticall gouernour and gouernour in ecclesiasticall causes How iudgement in ecclesiasticall causes is ascribed to the Prince how not Gal. 1. The statute slaundred The Popishe churche claymeth superioritie in iudgeging of doctrine aboue the Pope Stap. 48. a. Stap. 48. b. Math. 12. The original of bothe powers Lib. 2. cap. 1. pag 56. M. Saunders beginneth with contradictions to himselfe Saund. pag. 57 Saund. 57. Saund. 57. sand pag. 57. Supra pa. 108. Difference betwene the ciuill power of heathen and christian Prin ces Maister Saunders contradictions Saund. pag. 57 The kingdom of Christe in this world but not of this worlde Ecclesiasticall power Saund. pa. 57. How the royal power submitteth it selfe to the Ecclesiasticall power The distinction of In of Stapleton fol. 29. a. b. Deuter. 17. Saund. pa. 57. The vse of both powers M. Saunders contradictioÌ„ Supra pag. 791. Howe Hâ—…lie had the ciuil and ecclesiâ—…sticall power Howe Noe Melchizedech and Abraham had both powers Sâ—…und pa. 56. Howe Moyses had bothe powers How the Machabees had them Howe Samuel had them Speciall consecration Sauâ—… pag. 57. Ozias example Supra pag. sand pag. 57. Supra pag. 670. sand pag. 57. 58. The ende of both powers Math. 10. 1. Tim. 2. How farre the ende of the ciuill power stretcheth Supra pag. 117. M. San. maymeth S. Paules sentence Supra pag. 669. Killing the â—…o dy is not the proper ende of the Princes power An ill Priest killes the soule Platina de sententijs Pij 2. Pag. 80. M. Sanders contrarieth him selfe sand pag. 58. What superiour power we ascribe to the Prince Saund. pa. 5â—… M. sand order in this chapter sand pag. 58. M. Saunders Definition of a gouernour M. sand examples to coÌ„firme his definition M. sand definition false M. sand examples insufficient Diuers instances against M. sand exaÌ„ples The instance of an Embassadour M. Feck tale of a gentleman defending that mustard was good with all meate The instance â—… of woman sand pag. 58. Maister Saunders exceptioÌ„ The vvill and povver of a king restrayned by lavve The similitude of a mannes body Sand. 58. Matth. 28. Iohn 20. 1. Cor. 11. Num 27. Iud. 4. 4. Reg. 11. Gal. 4. 4. Reg. 11. 4. Reg 22. 1. Tim. 2. 1. Cor. 14. Gal. 4. M Saunders argumeÌ„t standeth all