came also thither And seeking the fauâ—â— of his frinds in a certain cause of his owâ— at length he coÌ„meth to Cardinal Martin Yea sayth he Decepisti me Nesciebâ—tibi imminere negotiuÌ„ tolle equuÌ„ tuuÌ„â— ecce in stabulo est you haue deceued me I knew not ye had any sute in haÌ„d Take your horse to you loe yonder he is in the stable This is one and he I truste no deceauer or Pilate An other Cardinal Gauâ—rid is Gaudfridus Bishope of Cartres which many yeres together was at his own charges Embassadour and legat froÌ„ the Pope in the costs of Gascoigne Of whoÌ„ he telleth that ther was a sturgeoÌ„ brought vnto him by a certain priest but I wil not take him sayd the Cardinall except I pay for him Againe a Ladie of the towne where he lodged brought vnto him for deuotioÌ„ and good wil three treen disshes with a towel he behâ—ld theÌ„ he praised theÌ„ but in any case he would not take them And at both these tymes S. Bernard was present And saieth herevpoÌ„ vnto Eugenius O that we might haue store of such meÌ„ geueÌ„ vnto vs as thes were whoÌ„ I brefly haue spokeÌ„ of If therefore the Pope him selfe was good and some Cardinalles and Bishopes were holie men how can you withoâ— impudencie drawe S. Bernard to such 〈◊〉 sense as thoughe he should condemâ—â— the whole See and Church of Romeâ— And if as I saied before you thinke him not to speake generally what helpeth it your cause in departing from the Church to proue that some Prelates be Pilats Secondly I might wel and truely say that S. Bernard speaketh against the maners of the Court of Rome and not against the faith of the Church of Rome And though he should name the Pope for his euill behauiour which he doth not a Pilate yet concerning his Authoritie and office he geueth vnto him all the titles of excellencie that are found in the Scriptures from Abel to Christ. Affirming besides him to be the shepheard not only of shâ—pe but of all other Shepheardes also â–ª and Others to haue bene called to take parte of the cure but hym to haue fulnes of power with other such wordes more of like sense Thirdly I aunswere he neuer spake so vnreuerentlie of the Pope in all hys workes And that the testimony which you alleage is not in the bookes ad Eugenium The old Father Epiphanius saieth Apolog. it is an horrible wickednes Epiph. and a sinne not to be suffred Haere 61. for any man to set vp any picture of Christ him selfe See how these felowes caÌ„ amplifie and â—et furth a lie Confut. â—35 Epiphanius they thinke â—aketh for theÌ„ and therfore they dresse â—im in their own colours Ye find not in hiÌ„â—either these greauous and mightie terâ—es horrible wickednes and Synne â—ot to be suffred Neither these precise â—onclusions that any man shal not set â—p anie picture Neither this aggrauaâ—ing additioÌ„ of Christ him self He speaâ—eth quietly and he speaketh not geneâ—ally but against a certaine kind of Imaâ—es or honor done to them as appeareth by the words istiusmodi vela such kinâ— of veiles And he prescribeth nothinâ— against the Image of our Sauiour Christâ— If ye wil not leaue this place but proâ—â— that it maketh against Images Pluckâ—â— out first these lies and repaire the testimonie making it neither better neither worse then Epiphanius doth permit you and then shal you be otherwise answered The old fathers Origen Chriysosâ—â— exhort yâ— people to reade the scriptures Apolog. to bye them bookes to reason at home betwixt theÌ„selues of diuine maters wiâ—es with their husbaÌ„ds parents with their childreÌ„ These men condeÌ„ne yâ— scriptures as deade â—lemeÌ„ts And as much as eueâ— they may barre the people from them Ye ioyne these two Fathers togeather as though they both confirmed your lyes Confut. 236. But Origene neither speaketh of byeing bookes Ho. 9. in Leuit ca. â—16 nsither of reasoning at home 〈◊〉 the scriptures but of comiÌ„g to church aÌ„â— heariÌ„g the scriptures and of thinking afterwardes at home vpon the keping of them in mynde and folâ—wing them Then as concerning S. Chrysostome he speaketh agaynst suche as neglected the reading of Scriptures and thought this to he a sufficient excuse for them that they were no Monkes Ho. 2. in Matth. as who shuld saâ—e we haue wife children and household with other things besides to thinke vpon and therefore it is not our vocation to looke in the lawe of God and by that to amende our liues He speaketh likewise against other which loued to haue faier and trym books of the Gospel for ostentation sake not to reade them and profit by them Of which sort ther may be found at this preseÌ„t som in the world which liuing loosly and regarding their soules health slenderly cary yet the testameÌ„t or some parte thereof bouÌ„d vp in goldeÌ„ forel and hang it about their necks like a Iewel But as for the biyng of Scriptures he spaketh it by occasioÌ„ oÌ„ly in reprouiÌ„g such as had books in their cupbords aÌ„d no vnderstaÌ„ding or sense of them in their mind For after he had saied Hom. 3â— in loan This hauing of bookes coÌ„meth of the Iewish ambition and craking vnto whom the coÌ„maundementes were geuen in letters and vnto vs not so but in the tables of our hart which are of fleash least he shuld sem to derogate somwhat hereby vnto the written Scriptures he addeth yet I do not forbid it to gette books yea rather I pray you most ernestly get them but so that we maie repere often in our minde both the letters and sence the of them He was not therefore so careful of it that euery man shoulde bye the scripture but this he studied for that euery man should be diligeÌ„t in bearing away of the scriptures readen â–ª or preached in the open church Proue ye now that S. Chrysostome exhorted all and singular of his people to bye them bookes especially in the vulgar tounge And iudge ye whether he had so little discretion to moâ—e al therevnto which verie few could bring to passe the raritie and pryce of the written bookes being considered Nowe as concerning the other lie that wiues at home with theyr husbandes or children with theyr parentes should reason betwixt themselues of diuine maters either I vnderstand not your englishe or els ye abuse S. Chrysostom most shamefully For if ye meane that al that reasoniÌ„g which you imagin signifieth no more but that the father shuld instruct his sonne aÌ„d the wife geue eare to her husbandes good counsel then surely you must pardoÌ„ me I neuer vnderstood this much before that reasoning of diuine maters should haue so litle question in it But if reasoning betwixt parties doth importe an argueing to aÌ„d fro with obiections solutions replies resolutions diuises suppositioÌ„s c. And if reasoning of diuine maters doth signifie the questioÌ„ proponed not to be of so smal
As doeth appeare by the chiefe Apostles of the new Ghospell Luther Oecolampadius Peter Martir Bale Barcâ—let Barlowe Scorie c. Which departed out of the Churche on theyr owne heade and perill and liued not well in the Churche whyles they were interteined in it And so although some faithlesse and wretched fellowes might be proued to haue sold theyr Masses in the Churche that conuinceth them to be naught and not that the Churche consenteth vnto it We verelye Apolog. because we knowe the shedding of Christe hys Bloud vppon the Crosse to be the onelie Sacrifice are well content with it alone and looke for none other And forasmuche as yt was to be offered but once we commauÌ„d it not to be renewed againe You woulde I perceaue haue the Catholikes compted exceading couetous and insatiable Conf. 123. as thoughe they shoulde thinke the shedding of Christe his Bloud vppon the Crosse to be vnsufficiente to saluation But yet howe thinke you Notwithstanding ye are so well content as ye saye with Christe his Passion alone doe ye not thinke it necessarie for you to obey the Churche to obey your Prince to absteine from lying from adultery from Simonie c If besides the passion of Christ you must also keepe the Commaundementes and doe as manie good workes as ye may then as you are content so are we And you are no wiser by this rekening than other poore folkes are But if Christ his Passion doth so content you that ye seeke not to suffer also with him after your degree in a certaine proportion then doth it plainlie appeare that you are quickly satisfied And in such sorte to be well content is for suche as neuer thincke to ascend after Christ and are verie vnlike vnto him Why hath he hys Legates as much to saie as moste suttle spyes lying in wayte in all Kinges Courtes Apolog. Councelles and priuie chambres Why doth he when he lyst sette Christian Princes one against an other And at his owne pleasure trouble the whole world with debate and discord First Con. 178 let it be proued that the Pope doth it and then afterwardes aske the cause why And coÌ„sider also whether it becommeth the Church of England that such an Apologie should goe furth in the name of it as meddleth with the legats whom other Princes of Christendome doe interteyne And which obiecteth to a person of much Authoritie at the least such an heygâ—nous and shamefull crime as that at his plesure he should trouble the whole world If the Pope were no more quiet and peaceable than ye make him had England all this while continued in schisme and heresie and not ben made a praye to some that would haue taken it What is he that coÌ„maundeth the Emperour to goe by him at his horse bridle Apolog. the Frenche King to hold his stirope Some Pope by lykelihode of your owne making Con. 185. For the Catholiks know of none such at al. Yea Pauluâ— Iouius when Charles the fifthe of worthie memorie would haue helde Pope Clements stirope he was not suffered so to doe the Popes modestie ouer coÌ„ming the Emperours deuotion Why doe they hyde Apolog. why doe they keepe vnder the Ghospell which Christ woulde haue preached alowde from the house toppe We beleue Con. 222. it is not hyddeÌ„ that which is openlie readen in the Churche Catholikelie expounded in Vniuersities Ordinarelie readen in Religiouse houses And commonlie solde in Hebrue Greeke and Latine to all that will studie it This lye is dilated by the Authours of the Apologie Fo. 264. this also is emong the flatte lyes Why doe they not proue theyr Religion Apolog. by the examples of the Primitiue Churche and by the Fathers and Councels of old tymes Our bookes doe aunswer for vs Conf. 231. that this is a lye Why be they afrayd to take a paterne Apolog. of the Apostles and old Fathers We be neuer afraied Con. 20â— but when we come to such heretikes as wil not admit the old Fathers nor theyr interpretatioÌ„s vppon the Apostles then in deede we alleage not so thicke theyr Testimonies whose Authorities the loftie and prowde mindes doe easelie contemne Why dyd Iohn Apolog. 1. Clement a Countrie man of ours 2. but fewe yeares paste 3. in the presens of certaine honest men and of good credite 4. teare and 5. caste into the fyere certaine leaues of Theodorete the moste 6. Auncient Father and a 7. Greeke Bishoppe wherein he playnlie 8. and euidentlie taughte that the nature of Bread in the Communion was not chaynged abolyshed or brought to nothinge And thys dyd he of 9. purpose bycause he thought 10. there was no other copy thereof to be found Ye haue done well so particularlie to set furth this mater Con. 231. declaring by manie circumstances that Doctour Clement shoulde Teare and Caste into the fier certaine leaues of such an Author of such a mater before men of good credite and for suche a purpose and 〈◊〉 â–ª as you specifie And nowe as though the mater needed no further 〈…〉 aske why Iohn Clement a Counâ—rieman of yours dyd so But I will tel you firste 〈◊〉 he dyd not so For as him selfe hath 〈◊〉 me and other asking this verie quâ—stion of him that you appose vs withall he neuer had anie parte of that booke in Greeke or in Latine in written hande And therefore could not wel burne that which he neuer had Nowe if the honest men that you speke of did not only se him cast certeine leaues into the fier but did reade also the contentes of those leaues before they were cast into the fier and vnderstoode vpon what intent D. Clement dyd it c. name them that they maie be knowen for theyr honestie When they did of late put in print Apolog. the auncient Father Origenes worke vp on the Ghospel of Iohn why left they quite out the whoâ—e sixte chapiter wherein it is lykely yea rather of verie suerty that the 〈…〉 had writen many thinges conâ—â—rning the Sacrament of the holy Communion contrarie to these mens myndes We could not leaue that Chapiter out Con. 233. which was not founde in anie Copy But if you can bring anie such chapiter furth ye shal make it lykely aÌ„d ê“bable that we are to blame for not putting it in And if you can not you proue your selfe to be verie suspitiouse and slaunderouse which reproue the Catholikes for not putting that in which is not as farre as we or you doe hitherto know to be found in any place extant Yet you haue suche a grace as in speaking so also in reading without booke that you further saie it to be not onlie lykelie but rather of verie suertie that such and such things should be in that place of Origen which yet you neuer sawe in al your lyfe that you might be able to reporte anie thing of it Which of al the Fathers haue at anâ—e time called you
A BRIEFE SHEVV Of the false VVares packt together in the named Apology of the Churche of England By Iohn Rastell M. of Art and student of Diuinitie Qui nititur Mendacijs hic pascit ventos Idem Probâ—â—â— autem ipse sequitur aues volantes He that leaneth to lies feedeth the winds the selfe same foloweth the fleyng birdes LOVANII Apud Ioannem Foulerum Anno D. 1567. REgiâ—e Maiestatis Priuilegio concessum est Ioanni Rastello Sacrae Theologiae studioso vt librum inscriptum A briefe shewe of the false Ware c. per Typographum aliquem iuratum imprimere ac impunè distrahere liceat Datum Antuerpiae die 9. Iulij â–ª 1567. Subsig Prats To the Reader THE Church of EnglaÌ„d Gentle Reader was neuer so defended is nowe we heare say it is like to be For M. Iewel being the Scribe or Secretarie and the Superintendentes with others being coadiutors and gatherers what is it so litle that they so manie will not find out or what is it so much that he alone will not put in By likelyhoode then the Booke wil be greate marie whether it will be so good or no therein is the question For triall of which I haue gathered into certaine chapiters the chiefest maters as it seemed to me by which theyr charge might be set before them and to which the accompt that they can make might be considered whether it wil answer The first of which conteyneth the false and naughtie Argumentes of the englishe Apologie The secoâ—d The Absurdities thereof The third The lyes in tellinge of Stories The fourth the lyes vppon the Auncient Fathers The fifth the lyes vpon councels The sixthe the lyes vppon the Scriptures The seuenth the flatte lyes The eighth the Rhetorical lyes The nynth the Examples of facing a lye The 10. the Problematical lyes The 11. a blasphemous lye The 12. Contradictions The 13. False Interpretations These be the sommes of the debte which they are in to God and to the worlde which if they can discharge with arownd and true answer as it were a good and lauful paimeÌ„t â—â—ey may be the better trusted hereafter but because such Merchantes of this world are exâ—eeding crafty and false in theyr mysteries therefore GeÌ„â—le Reader before thou deale with the Grosse â—Booke weighe any of these smal peeces whiche I haue gathered for thee out of the confutation of the Apologie of theyr Church in EnglaÌ„d made by D. Harding and consider with the Ballance of Indifferencie whether this Aunswer of theyrs that is comming be able to make anie of them good or no. So shalt thou saue a greate deale of labour which els the reading and examining of the whole boke would cost thee and I shal thinke my labour wel bestowed which doth by any way bring thee a commoditie Fare wel From Louan Augusti 21. Liber hic de Mendacijs Apologiae falsò nominatae Ecclesiae Anglicanae lectus est approbatus à viris anglici idiomatis Theologiae peritissimis quibus tutò credeÌ„dum esse iudiâ—â— quamobrem etiam securè imprimi euulgari potest Cunerus Petri P. S. Petri Louanij 7. Iulij Anno. 1567. A BRIEF SHEVV OF CERTAIN NAVGHâ— tye and false Argumentes made in the Apologie of the Church of England The first Chapiter Truth doth redely find enemies and slaunderers Apolog. Maior We find enemies and slaunderers Minor Ergo we ought to beare it quietly Conclâ—â—ion if we be at this day tormeÌ„ted only because we teache the truth TO shew the faultes of this argument Confut. p. 6. 7. â— 9. by rules of logike it were an easie mater but it wold not be so easily vnderstanded of the common Reader For his sake therefore leauing the mode and figure of a logical answer I wil shew the Absurditie thereof in that it may be made to serue for the Catholiques also their Aduersaries For Truthe dooth redelye finde enemyes and slaunderers But the Catholikes at this day finde enemyes and slaunderers Ergo they haue the truth That the Catholikes haue presently their enemies and slauÌ„derers it may be proued by the whole Booke of Actes and monumeÌ„ts by M. Iewels SermoÌ„ and Replie by this very Apologie of the Church of EnglaÌ„d By al which it apereth how sharply the Protestants are set against the Catholikes and how litle regarde they haue what they write or report of them Ergo if thei which find enemys haue the truth wherefore then are so many Catholikes either in prison within the Realme either in hatred of their owne CouÌ„triemeÌ„ out of the Realme And if the hauing of enemies proueth not the parties that are hated to be of a good and sincere religion it coÌ„cludeth nothing for the ProtestaÌ„ts though they shew themselues to haue enemies Yea it maketh against them that by likelihod their doctrine should not be good and credible because they now the Professours of it haue all the fauoure that may be shewed in Englande The right forme of this argumeÌ„t wold be this Truth findeth Enemies We haue the truth Ergo we find enemies But now the second proposition can neuer be proued So many thousandes of our brethern haue in these last twenty yeares suffred most painful tormentes Apolog. Princes desirous to restarine the Gospel haue nothing preuailed The whole world now doth begyn to open their eyes to beholde the light Ergo our cause already is sufficiently declared and defended Death for a religion doth not make a Martyr Confut. .13 to the first As in exaÌ„ple of Seruetê° the Arrian whom Caluin procured to be burned at Geneua â–ª and of Ioan of Kent that filth And the Anabaptists which to this day suffer death willingly So they do make lawes against theues to the second and yet the gallowes are dayly occupied So do weeds arise and grow be the grouÌ„d or gardeÌ„ neuer so wel tilled Yet neither theues nor weeds mai crake of it that not withstaÌ„ding the lawes or diligeÌ„ce of meÌ„ thei coÌ„tinue stil aÌ„d maintein their race The more like it is that Antichrist is at hand For coÌ„cerning the Gospel of Christ it doth not begyn now to be knowen but euery day more and more it shuld wax more obscure toward th end of the world This Gospel therefore which to beholde the whole worlde now doth begyn to open their eyes cuÌ„meth so late that we must looke now for the wicked man to be reueled 2. Theâ— 2. and Charitie to wax cold and faith not to be fouÌ„d perchaunce vpon the earth Math. 24 Luc. 18. and not to haue any increase of faith hope or Charity to be brought into the world Oure religion is come at lenght euen to Kinges courtes and palaces Apologie Ergo God him selfe doth strongly fight in our quarel It came not thither Confut. 15. before it was sent for Neyther do you properly turne princes to your Religion but Princes turne all your preachinges and procedinges to serue their affections So was Peter Martir
not neede But because the world is now come to that Infirmity aÌ„d curiositie that maters must be defended against al obiections of heretikes and brought againe vnto examination after they haue ben already determined and beleued therefore hath the charitie and wisedom of the Popeâ— stoode to the charges of calling a general Councell which facte of his doth not proue that he may erre which the holy Ghost wil not suffer for his presence sake in the Church but that he doth so reasonably and discreetly order those maters that shal concerne our Faith that he wil not erre as much as mans wit can prouide but haue also the Aduise Consent and Iudgement of other which are of most authoritie and lerning in the Church of Christ. Let the Bishope of Rome alone Apol. be aboue al Councells Ergo one parte is greater than the whole No Syr Confut. 284 not parte greater than the whole but parte shall be greater than parte and one member worthier than an other The bodie and heade togeather make the whole and take away the head ye take away a parte of the whole Ye can not therfore make a diuisioÌ„ of the church into the whole and the heade but into the head and the reast of the partes of the whole And then it is no absurditie at all that the heade should be greater in price and honor than al the other members beside Athanasius denied to come to yâ— councell at Cesarea Apolog. Athanasius went away from the CouÌ„cell at Syrmium IhoÌ„ Chrysostom kept himself at home although the Emperour commaunded him to come to the Arrians Councel Maximus and Paphnutius depaâ—ted from the Councell at Palestine The Bishops of the East would not come to the Councel of Heretiks named Patropassians Paulinus and many others moe refused to come to the CouÌ„cell at Milane Ergo we are not to be blamed for not comming to the Councel at Trent You mutiply examples al in vaine Confut. 293. aÌ„d there is no proportion at al betwene the holy Fathers constancy and your disobedieÌ„ce For they refused to be at the commaundent of heretikes and their Fauourers but you contempne the lawfull Authority of Catholike Bishops If ye could truly say it that the Fathers gathered of late at Trent were ArriaÌ„s PatropassiaÌ„s or heretikes of any sort then might you laufully vse the examples of Athanasius Chrysostome Maximus Paphnutius and other But for as much as it is impossible that they could be heretikes which held no strainge and singular opinioÌ„s contrary to the Catholike coÌ„mon and receiued faith in the whole world you haue no excuse left for your pride aÌ„d disobedieÌ„ce That Cathalike Bishopes haue refused to come to the conspiracies of heretikes ye neuer neede to haue proued it But if ye can shew by any example that euer any good man yet did refuse to come to a CouÌ„cel lawfully called by the Pope then may that example make for you but there is none suche to be founde None of vs can be suffered to sit in yâ— Councell Apolog. The Popes Legats Patriarchs Archebishopes Bishopes and Abbates do conspire togeather sit alone by them selues and haue power alone to geue theyâ— consente And they wil haue al theyr opinions to be iudged at the will and pleasure of the Pope Princes and Embassadoures are but vsed as mocking stockes Ergo leâ—â—e not the wise and good maruaile if we haue those rather to sit at home then to iourney to the Conucel The Apostles neuer made such argumentes Confut. 294 And you if ye had in dede the holy ghost and if ye were chosen vesselles to cary the name of God abrode ye would neuer so childishely either without causâ— feare or if ye had a iust cause complainâ— and whine that you shal not sit whenâ— you come to the general Councel or that then ye shal haue a number of Bishopeâ— and Abbates against you or that al shalâ— be referred to the Pope or that they wilâ— mocke you if ye goe thither For none of all these thinges should haue letted you from telling your opinionâ— and for the rest you should haue referred al to the will of God what successe your words should haue had But either ye be so prowde that except you maie be of the chiefest you wil not come into the presence of reuereÌ„d and lerned Fathers or ye be so fainteharted that except the Prince be on your syde ye dare non trust the warrant of a safeconduct A Christian Prince hath the charge of both tables committed vnto him Apolog. Ergo not only temporal maters but Ecclesiastical also pertaine to his office He hath the Charge of both tables so far foorth Confut. .303 that he must defend the external geauing of due honour vnto God and outwarde exhibiting of charitie towards our neighbour But to offer vp Sacrifice to minister Sacramentes or to iudge of Murder Adultery Theft or any thing that is coÌ„mitted only in hart hath he any power Euery man seeth that worldly Princes meddle not with suche maters And therefore theyr charge is baser and narower thaÌ„ the charge of Bishopes and Priestes whom God hath appointed to be his Officers in the inward Courte of Conscience The prophets of God coÌ„maunded the Kinges to breake doune altars of Idols Apolog. and to write out the books of yâ— Law for them selues Ergo Ecclesiastical maters perteine to the iurisdiction of Kinges You see Confut. 303. then that the Princes are not Supreme but that betwene them and God the Prophete is the greater Officer For the Prophets coÌ„mauÌ„d the priÌ„ces obey The Prophets geaue charge the princes doe execute it The prophetes declare what an Idol is the Princes destroie it according to the prophetes instruction Moyses â— Ciuile Magistrate recieued from God Apolog. and delyuered to the people al the order for religion and sacrifices and gaue Aaron a sore rebuke for making the golden calfe Ergo ecclesiastical matters perteyne to the office of princes This example agreeth not Confut. 05. because Moyses was not a Ciuile magistrate only but also a priest And he was made also by God the supreme gouernour and captaine ouer al the number of the children of Israel were they temporal or Spiritual persons in figure of Christ. If ye can shew that our Sauiour left any such power vnto any king in the world and that his Apostles were not immediatly next vnto hiÌ„ the chiefe gouernors of his church then shal that temporal King haue the power whach ye labour to geaue him Iosue receyued commaundementes towchinge Religion and the seruice of God Apolog. Ergo Ecclesiasticall maters perteyne to theyr Iurisdiction He receyued commaundement Confut. 305. to meditate in the boke of the law which God had geauen by Moyses and to keepe it But this was so sar of from a Supremacy in maters Ecclesiasticall that it is expressly sayd in the boke of Numeri Cap. 17. that Eleazar the
Conf. 243 but the Canonicall Scriptures The Homilies which you apoint to be read in your CongregatioÌ„ be they thinke you Canonical Scriptures Truely for so much as they are not you muste eyther leaue them vnreadeÌ„ in the CongregatioÌ„ or confesse that ye haue mystaken thys oulde Councell at Carthage And in the meane while ye haue done very fondelye to complaine of transgressinge that commaundement which your selues doe not keepe As for theyr religion if it be of so longâ— continuaÌ„ce as they would haue meÌ„ wenâ— it is Apolog. why doe they neuer proue it so by the examples of the Primitiue Church and by the Fathers and Councelles of olde tymes This is not resonably required of you Conf. 231. For where as you without blushing dare confesse that your Gospell began to spring about fifty yeares sence and whereas vnto vs you graunt nyne hundred yeares in whiche our religion hath continued if nothing more could be alleged for vs yet against you this alone were a sufficient argument And no man should be so hastie vpon vs as out of hand to require of vs testimonies out of the Primitiue Churche to whome we make it euident by the practise of nine hundred yeares and that by confession of our aduersaries that we be no vpstartes nor starters But nowe whereas the late printed bookes of Catholickes vnto whiche you make no greate speede to answer doe â—hew the Primitiue Churche and auncient Fathers to make for our Religion and you on the contrary side haue neuer â—roued yet your new Ghospel by any olde Example Father or Councell ye are in one sentence to be twise noted of absurditie either requiring of vs proufes for our Antiquitie your selues so conuicted in your owne consciences to be of fewer yeres than the Papistes are by eight hundred and odde either thinking it meete and necessarie that whosoeuer saieth his religion to be moste Apostolike and auncient should proue it immediatly your selues not remeÌ„bring to declare sâ— much in your owne cause al this while We in Gods cause desire to stande to Gods only iudgement Apolog. By the cause of God you vnderstand Confut. 272. I thinke the due worshipping of God in true Religion But what meane you by God his only iudgement Wouldâ— refer the whole mater to him only thâ— his wil should come vnto you neither 〈◊〉 the meanes of Angelles nor men 〈◊〉 anie other whatsoeuer creature And when would ye looke to 〈◊〉 so muche performed vnto you In 〈◊〉 world or in the life to come If in 〈◊〉 world remember what was sayd to 〈…〉 desiring to see God his face Exo. 33. No 〈◊〉 shal liue and see me And consider 〈◊〉 the brightnes and incomprehensiblenâ— of God is such as the wekenes of maÌ„s soul coÌ„passed yet with infirmitie flesh aÌ„d 〈…〉 can not without somewhat put betwene apprehend or behold immediatly â–ª If in the world to come so might 〈◊〉 saue in dede your selues from burning or fleyng and ye should haue al the theues and whores in the world most willing to ratifie that coÌ„clusion of which ther is none to be thought so faithful or fearfulin the sight of God but he would staÌ„d to his only iudgemeÌ„t that is to come vpon the â—ope that by such a glorious protestatioÌ„ 〈◊〉 might escape the present IudgemeÌ„t of 〈◊〉 A protestation â—hat vvil saue theues heretikes and al malefactours if it may be admitted And therfore meaniÌ„g by your staÌ„ding 〈◊〉 Gods only iudgemeÌ„t such an hering 〈◊〉 ê‘ceiuing of Gods wil as is wrought by 〈◊〉 own esseÌ„ce iÌ„mediatly without any 〈◊〉 of angel maÌ„ or any other craeture 〈◊〉 is for this present life impossible to be â—bteined aÌ„d argueth a bliÌ„d aÌ„d folish miÌ„d 〈◊〉 be in the wisher aÌ„d referring it to the world to come it is spokeÌ„ so vnreasonably â—hat it may quikly be takeÌ„ vp to serue al wicked aÌ„d desperate psons aÌ„d to saue theÌ„ 〈◊〉 shame and punishmeÌ„t in this world which how absurd it wold be iÌ„ the coÌ„moÌ„ wealth if such an appellatioÌ„ or protestatioÌ„â—â—er alowed euery simple soul may ê‘ceiue â—et wheÌ„ a theâ—e not thiÌ„king ê‘chaÌ„ce his 〈◊〉 to be theriÌ„ vnreasonable shal ê“test for 〈◊〉 shift to say somwhat or only to saue somwhat as his goods or an opinioÌ„ of iÌ„noceÌ„cy 〈◊〉 the vnwise aÌ„d ignoraÌ„t yâ— he wil staÌ„d 〈◊〉 Gods oÌ„ly iudgemeÌ„t he vttereth a siÌ„ple 〈◊〉 or a tolerable policie mary when a preacher or prelate shal solemly 〈◊〉 and take a glorie in his bolde words 〈◊〉 make his folowers conceiue a 〈◊〉 weight to be in them that forsooth Gods cause he wil staÌ„d only to 〈◊〉 iudgement meaning that vntil 〈◊〉 day come he wil forbid al iudgement meÌ„ vpoÌ„ his doctrin he falleth into a 〈◊〉 absurditie partly because he 〈◊〉 the trial of that which presently must determined vnto a time which is so 〈◊〉 of from vs and partely because he 〈◊〉 also of so idle and vaine a protâ—â—station But now if ye meane not to 〈…〉 your standing to God his 〈◊〉 iudgement A vaine bragg of the Prostants if thei take theÌ„ selues only to stande to Gods only iudgement so precisely and absolutely but that his Iudgement whiche 〈◊〉 call HIS ONLY must and 〈◊〉 comme to yow by some meanes eitheâ— of Angels or of men or of other thinges then doe I note vnto you first your 〈◊〉 and bragging sound of wordes as thoughâ— you did heare almightie God his sentencâ— whiche he geaueth vpon maters of faith and Religion after a more familiar and truer sorte then the Catholikes doe for they also stand to Gods onlie iudgemente Vppon whiche pointe yet being examined ye can not but confesse that you heare him not iÌ„mediatly but by meanes of other thinges whiche it pleaseth his maiestie to vse so that other poore men may heare him and stand to his only Iudgement as well as you Therefore I doe aske nowe further by what meanes God only speaketh vnto you God speaketh not to the heretikes by the ministery of Angels â–ª For I truste without his vttering of his minde ye are not so well acquainted or so excellent of vnderstanding as to knowe it doth he vtter his Iudgementes to you by the ministerie of Angelles But howe shall we beleue it excepte ye proue it And because ye haue not yet craked of it surely I can not yet thinke it Wel Nor by meanes of men can you declare that he hath shewed his wil vnto you by the meanes and mouthes of men If ye dare saie so 〈◊〉 the persons that they may be considereâ—â— And further instruct vs how ye did perâ—ceaue those worshipful felowes to speak vnto you God his only iudgementes and not theyr owne fantasies But you haue an other way perchauÌ„câ— to come to the vnderstaÌ„ding of Gods pleaâ—sure Not by means of dreames What is that Consisteth it in dreames imaginations mouings of your sprite within you and other such prety means Nay surelie ye be not so dreamish as
would haue had him to surrender the Empire And taking his Father prisoner he committed hym to straight custodie without anie motion of the Pope therevnto as with whome also he was at Variance Then as touching the Shearing or thrusting him into A Moâ—asterie or famishing of Henrie the fourth lette hym that made these shamefull lyes shewe his Authour and defende hym selfe Who Apolog. so ilfauouredlie and monstrouslie put the Emperour Frederikes necke vnder hys feete and as thoughe that were not suffyciente added further thys Texte out of the Psalmes Thou shalt goe vppon the Adder and Cockatrice and shalt tread the Lyon and Dragon vnder thy feete Who this should be Conf. 188 your selues can not tell whiche are the onelie mainteiners of the tale For sometymes ye laie it to Innocentius the thyrde sometymes to Innocentius the eyght sometymes to Alexander the thyrde And the fact being so strainge and singular that it coulde not be but notorious yet ye haue so litle certeintie thereof that ye knowe not who should haue done it But the trueth is no graue writer maketh any mention of such behauiour of the Pope The Emperour Theodosius 〈◊〉 as Socraâ—es sayth did not only sit emongs the Bishopes but also ordered the whole arguiâ—g of the cause Here you speake of sitting 〈…〉 as though Thâ—odâ—sius had then ben at some General Councel You speake also of ordering the whole arguing of the cause as though him selfe had ben a moderatour of some disputation The plaine storie is Hist. 〈◊〉 9 ca. 19 Theodosius conâ—erred familiarly in his owne palace with the Bishope of Constantinople howe his people might be brought to an vnitie in faith And when the heretikes refused one good way which was to be tried by the testimonies of Auncient Fathers he went an other waie to worke with theÌ„ whiche was that eche of them should bring furthe in writing that which he had to say for his faith Which being don the Emperour read ouer theyr writings aÌ„d reiected the ArriaÌ„s MacedoniaÌ„s and Eunomians heresies and embraced and commended the iudgement of the Nicene Councel touching the consubstantiality of God the Sonne with his Father So that this historie serueth nothing to the mater of a General Councel nor proueth that an Emperour may sit there as Iudge emong the Bishops nor that Theodosius did vpon his owne heade and as Supreme Gouernour that which Socrates here reporteth of him but that he folowed the Councel of his Bishope Nectarius and the former decrees of the Nicene Councel Iustinian put doun from theyr Papal Throne two Popes Apolog. Syluerius and Vigilius notwithstaÌ„ding thei were Peters successours and Christes Uicars No Conf. 3. it was not Iustinian but his Ladie Theodora which was a great mainteiner of heretikes and when women theyr husbandes being alyue be so ferueÌ„t in sprite that they must haue such Popes as please them selues no wounder if Peters Successours be shamefullie handeled Charles the greate being Emperour held a prouincial Councel in Germanie Apolog. for putting awaye Images contrary to the second Councel at Nice This is so false Confut. 327 that the contrarie is most true For whereas the heretikes named Imagebreakers Abbas Vrsper Anselm Ryd PeÌ„cerus Carion Pantalâ—o had holden a CouÌ„cel at Constantinople for abrogating of Images directly against this impietie of theyrs Pope Adrian and Charles the greate held an other Councell at Frankeford in Germanie So muche it lacketh that Charles the greate should be a fauourer of Imagebreakers The fourth Chapiter conteinyng the lies made vpon the Auncient Fathers and other VVriters S. Augustin Apolog. wheÌ„ he disputed against PetiliaÌ„ an heretik of the side of the Donatistes let not these words Aug. de vnitate Eccl. c 30 quod he be heard betwen vs I say or you say let vs rather speake in this wise thus sayth the Lord there let vs seeke the Church there let vs boult out the cause THe question betwene S. Augustine aÌ„d the Donatistes was this Conf. 29. wher the Church should be Now to proue that the Church was not with the Catholiks the Donatistes were busie alwaies in rehersing how the Catholikes had burned the holie bokes aÌ„d had offred incense to Idols and had persequuted InnoceÌ„tes like as the protestaÌ„tes in these daies wheÌ„ the questioÌ„ is of the Supremacy of the Bishop of Rome thei vse to make a long tale how such a Pope was a NecromaÌ„cer and such a one a leacheroâ—s man and some other proude and ambitious Now although S. Augustine mighâ— and did also in sundry places say truelyâ— that the obiections of the Donatisteâ— were false Augu. de vnit Eccles ca. 2. IdeÌ„ lib. 2. coÌ„t epist. petil c. 8. and though he might brinâ— furth against them also greater examples of their faults yet considering thaâ— such oiections taken out of the euill life of the one side or the other doe not perteine to the question proponed And seeing that altercation and strife only waâ— mainteined thereby whiles eche partâ— would say â–ª the other lied and would noâ— ceasse to tell what they could one of thâ— other being not credited yet one of thâ— other S. Augustine therefore not desirous to chide but earnest to proue thâ— Churche to be on his side vseth thesâ— wordes De vnit Eccl. c. â— Let vs not heare This I saie or This thou saiest but let vs heare this saieth our Lord â–ª After which wordes these folowe whiche the Apologiâ— should not haue omitted Truly ther bâ— extant our Lordes bookes the authoritie of which we both do agree with al we both beleue we both serue and obey There let vs seeke the Church there vs boult out our cause For the Church it self to proue it selfe by her owne wordes is not conuenient And to credit her at the reporte and coÌ„meÌ„dation of a baser aÌ„d vnworthier witnes then her self is very dishonorable It remaineth therefore that her cause be examined by the Scriptures as whiche haue so great authority and are so generally receiued And truly it is exceading wel prouided of God that in theyr seueral causes the Church sâ—ould declare the scriptures and the scriptures the church And so wheÌ„ any maÌ„ beleueth the church and striueth with me vpon a text of the scripture I would say vnto him let vs haue no more these words I saie or you say but let vs heare rather this saieth the Church On the other side when one beleueth the scriptures as heretikes thinke they do and would reason with me about the Church where it should be I would answer Let not these wordes be hearâ— among vs I say or you say but let vs heare This saith the Scripture Therefore in this principall question betwene the Catholikes and the Donatists which was where the Church should be the best waye was only to appeale to Scriptures Againe the Donatistes admitteâ— the Scriptures but other thinges which S. Augustine alleaged out of laufull recordes either of the
ready to diminsh the numbre of Ceremonies that the greatest papist in the world would not aske more fauor in the questioÌ„ aÌ„d cause of theÌ„ First if the Scripture doth alow anie order or fashioÌ„ it is not vaine If the whole Church hath generally receiued ani it is not vaine If it be but a particular Ceremony of one couÌ„trie and be not agaiÌ„st the faith or good maners it is not vaine Yea if anie thing be in it which helpeth to amendement of life it is not vaine By so many waies and for so many causes a ceremony maie wel continue as ye shal finde in that verie epistle of S. Augustin Epi. 119. c. 18. 19. And had you the face so to alleage this holy Doctours complaining of ceremonies as though he would haue as few as you What Sacrament haue you about which ye doe occupie oile What thinke you of the fast of lent What of Alleluia betwixt Easter and Witsontide What vse haue you of any Octaues Cap. 7. 15. 18. Yet of these Ceremonies he maketh mentioÌ„ in the foresaied Epistle and reckoneth that they are to be vsed and regarded Gregory c. if the Church saieth he shall depend vppon one man Apolog. it will at once fal doune to the ground Ye belie him shamfully he hath no such words at al. Conf. 203 Yet the protestaÌ„t may think this impossible that you should haue no more regarde of your honestye Let him seeke then if he be learned and iudge by his owne senses whether any such proposition is ther to be found But is there not a like vnto it Ye as so like as Rome is to Constantinople or Gregorie S. Peters successour to Nestorius of Constantinople an heretike For if a man should seeke for his life to find in that epistle but some resemblance of that which the Apology reporteth he findeth no more but this which I shal declare for th'vnlerned sake Iohn Bishope of Constantinople affected the title of Vniuersal Bishope S. Gregorie then Pope of Rome coÌ„plaineth thereof to Mauritius the Emperour declaring good causes aÌ„d reasons why such presumptioÌ„ should not be suffred Emong other he maketh this argument Lib. 4. epist. 3â— Surely we haue knoweÌ„ manie Prelats of the Church of CoÌ„staÌ„tinople to haue falleÌ„ into the goulfe of heresie and to haue ben not only heretiks but archeheretikes also Nowe for example he nameth Nestorius and Macedonius then bringeth he in therevpon this conclusion If therefore in that church vndoubtedly of Constantinople anie pul vnto himself that name of Vniuersal Bishope ergo which hath ben the iudgement of all good men the whole church which God forbid falleth froÌ„ her state wheÌ„ he falleth which is called Vniuersall An excellent argument vndoubtedly For if the only or Vniuersall Bishope should be at CoÌ„staÌ„tinople that see hauing no priuilege of coÌ„tinuing stil in the right faith as appereth by the archeheretikes which sate ther and al the world being bound to obey the Vniuersal Bishope this one absurditie grauÌ„ted a thousand would folow and that one Bishoppe erring all the whole Church should go a straie Loe this is al that may seme to geue any occasioÌ„ of reporting that which the Apologie hath attributed to S. Gregorie And wher find we here that if the church depeÌ„d vpon one maÌ„ â–ª it must at once fal doune to the ground Wil they yet defend theyr lying Or dare they yet stil abuse the old fathers â—s the Church aÌ„d that Church al one in coÌ„cluding Is depeÌ„ding vpon one man and that man al a like The successor of S. Peter and Bishop in that chaire in which neuer yet was fouÌ„d any archeheretike to set furth naughty doctrin is he al one with a Bishope of ConstaÌ„tinople â–ª which neither succedeth any Apostle and hath bene a defender of heresies let vs see now therfore whether you wil coÌ„fesse your errour in mistaking S. Gregorie Or mainteine your impudencie in misusing of him The bishâ—ps sayth Bernard who now haue yâ— charge of Gods church Apolog. ar not teachers but deceauers they are not feders but begilers thei are not prelats but pilates These words spake Bernard of yâ— B. who nameth him self the highest Bishop of al of yâ— other Bishops likwise which then had the place of gouernement How then Confut. Did S. Bernard forsake al papistrie and abandon the Pope because of those faâ—ltes which he fouÌ„d If he did why taried he in his moÌ„kes cote vnto his death If he did not what vnwise meÌ„ be you to for sake the Church for euil maners sake But coÌ„sider further WhoÌ„ called he deceauers â–ª begâ—â—ers pilats Al the whole order of Bishopes and gouernoures of the Church froÌ„ the Pope dounward Or spake he of some certain only If he noted but some certain aÌ„d â—heÌ„ worthely those other some which were not infected might wel preserue the state of the Church in truth of maners and doctrine that ye need not to feare an vtter destruction 〈◊〉 it and so through wretched foly depart out of it If he spake generally of al then wil I coÌ„fesse that ye are not so much to be blamed for your departing from that Church nor for anie your applieyng of S. Bernardes Authorie to that purpose But because I am sure this is false therefore I charge you and blame you How proue I this I proue it by those very bookes in which as you saie the foresaid wordes against the Pope and Bishopes are For concerning Eugenius him selfe he saieth in the third boke after much complaint or reproufe made of the euil maners of the Court of Rome Haec ad te Berna de CoÌ„s lib â–ª 3 noÌ„ de te scribo I writ this vnto thee not of thee And immediatly he declareth by example how Eugenius refused bagges of monie which came out of Germany and condemned a greate riche bisshop by likelyhode notwithstaÌ„ding his mony And how he gaue of his own vnto an other poore bisshop to geue vnto the officers in the Court least the bisshop should seeme niggish and vncourteous if he should haue nothing rewarded them Now Doth it greaue thee to heare this And I ê™ S. Bernard doe tell it so muche the more gladly by how much thou hearest it the more greauously The Pope theâ— him selfe was none of those deceauers begilers or pilates whom you mention Furth then were al the Cardinalles and Bishops deceiuers c. No neither al they as you may reade it proued in the fourth boke of that worke by the exaÌ„ples of two great Legats The one was Cardinal Martine Cardinal Martin which being sent legate into Dacia a countrie ful of gold and siluer returned yet so poore that for lacke of mony and horses he coulde scarse reach vnto Florence The Bishope of which place gaue him an horse without mention making of any mater to be done for it Yet the legat aÌ„d Cardinal Martin was 〈◊〉 soner at Rome but the bishop of Florence
for thee â—eter I haue praied that thy faith should not â—aile and thou being once turned confirme thy bretherne Againe to S. Peter he committeth his whole flocke saying Ioan 21. feede my lambes fede my sheepe To S. Peter then as the singularly chosen the promises are made and the priuileges are by praier obtained aÌ„d the charge by expresse worde is committed Nowe for confirmation of these wordes consider the effectes that haue folowed what heresie was euer mainteined by the See of Rome What question was there euer in the Church of Christ and not referred to that See and determined or pacified by it What See hath continued in al tempestes but onlie the See of Rome Who can shewe theyr succession from the Apostles but onlie the Bishopes of Rome What See is preferred in the writinges of holy Fathers but the See of Rome onlie That is the Chaire vnto which perfidiousnes can haue no accesse 〈…〉 That is the chaire of vnitie in which God hath put the doctrine of veritie 〈…〉 That is the Chaire in which euill men are constrayned to speake good thinges that the faith of the Christians may be out of doubt with them whiles it shall depend vpon the infallible promises of God and not vpon the deceiptful coniectures of men This Churche therefore being the Church which we cal Catholik in which the chiefe Master of the worke laied S. Peter as the first stone next to himselfe and in which there is a continual rew of Bishops one vpon an other to the meruelous strengthning and beautifieng of the whole building against which Church it is impossible that any wind or weather should so preuaile as it might ouerturne it for it is builded vpon a sure Rocke in which Church also there is the presence of the Holyghost sent of our Sauiour to teach it all truth and to tarie with it for euer these thinges being most euident and consequent what a blaspheâ—ouse lye is it to say that Christ hath told longe before that this Churche should erre For what other thiÌ„g is that to say but to blaspheme either the wisedoÌ„ of God as though he had not erected a church that should not erre or his power as though he could not bring it to passe or his Charitie as though he would not or his veritie as though he had not sayed poynting to S. Peter Math. 1â— vpon this Rock I wil build my Churcâ—e and againe I haue prayed for thee Peter Luc. 22. that thy Faith might not faile But for this tyme this is inough to note only the blasphemie he that wil see is more largely betraied and conuinced let him reade Doctor Saunders booke lately set furth of the Rocke of the Church The 12. Of the Contradictions Martin Luther Hulderycke Zuinglius Apolog. â—74 a being most excellent men euen sent of God to geue light to the worlde firste came vnto the knowledge of the Gospell ERgo before their tyme Confut. ther was a generall darknes in the world I wysse it is not so harde a matter to find out Gods Church Apolog. .24 for the Church of God is set vpoÌ„ an hill glistering place Ergo Luther and Zuinglius could not be the first that shoulde see the Church Confut. except either Christ had no Church at all in the world wheÌ„ Luther was borne or except a Citie set vpon an hil and for that purpose vndoubtedly sette that it might be sene should not yet be sene before Luther came in with his lanthorn We saye we haue no meede at all Apolog. 125. by our owne workes and dedes Ergo it booteth not to labour Confut. except it be for nothing God hath plucked vs out from the power of darknes Apolog. 225. to serue the liuing God to cut away all the remanents of synne and to worke out Saluation in feare and trembling Ergo that is not without some meede and rewarde Confut. by which we worke our saluation Our Aduersaries must be heaued froÌ„ their mother Apolog. 194. that is from this vaine coloure and shadow of the Church Ergo ye should vtterly dâ—spise the Church Confut. especially as it is now if yoâ—r aduersaries mother be of no substance but a vaine colour only To say truely Apolog. 192. we doe not despise the Chuâ—che of these men how so euer it be ordered by them now adayes â—rgo the Catholiks Church is no vaine colour of a Church Confut. seing that your selues dare not despise it 〈◊〉 popes had neuer hitherto leisure to 〈…〉 and earnesâ—â—â—e of those matters Apolog 19. 〈◊〉 some other cares do let them and â—iuers waies pul them Item â—61 they compt these thinges to be but coÌ„mon and trifling studies and nothing to appertaine to the Popes worthines Ergo being so carelesse Confut. they would neuer haue perceiued the case of their Religion nor procured men to defend it There haue ben wylily procured by yâ— Bishop of Rome Apolog. certaine persons of eloquence inough and not vnlearned neither which should put their helpe to this cause now almoste despaired of Item In deede they perceyued that their owne cause did euery where goe to wracke Ergo it appeareth Confut. that the Popes haue had care of the cause of Religion In this point that is lifting vp the Sacrament consisteth nowe all theyr Religion Apolog 250. Ergo al is not in salt Confut. water c. In these thinges they meane salt water Apolog. 255. Oyle spittle Palme they haue set all their Religion Ergo all is not in lifting vp the Sacrament Confut. What fault haue they once acknowledged and confessed Apolog. 209. Why burden ye then vs with not amending manifest and ofte confessed faultes Confut. Of so many Apolog 291. so manifest so often confessed by them and so euident errours what one haue they amended Why aske you then Confut. what faulte we haue once confessed For so much as we were most ascertened of God his will Apolog. 327. and compâ—ed it a wicked thing to be careful and ouercuÌ„bred about yâ— iudgments of mortal men Therefore ye should haue neuer called a Synode of mortal men Confut. Yet it foloweth Therefore we thought good to remedie our Churches by a prouincial Sinod Apolog. But what neded a remedy by a Synod Confut. if mortal mens iudgmentes are not to be cared for Our cause against the wil of Emperoures from the beginning Apolog. .15 against the willes of so many Kinges in spite of the Popes and almost maugre the head of al men hath taken encreace c. You neuer nede then Confu to aske leaue that your Gospel may procede if it be so victorious and triumâ—hant that maugre the head of al men almost it take encrease Let them geue the Ghospell free passage Apolog 133. let the trueth of Ihesu Christ geue his clere light
besides the Canonical Scriptures nothing be red in the Church vnder the name of the holy Scriptures Therfore it forbiddeth not the reading of other thinges but in that sort as they should be commended and vttered for Scripture it selfe And strait wayes it foloweth in the same decree Let it be lauful also for the passioÌ„s and deaths of Martyrs to be read wheÌ„ their yerely feasts are kept Doe you see your lie now and wil ye lowly coÌ„fesse it Or are ye so froward that ye wil not see it or are ye so cunning that ye caÌ„ defend it Your coÌ„fession or defensioÌ„ we are content te heare but if you will be blinde lette others behold and consider that nothiÌ„g but Canonical Scripture and the deathes of Martyrs to be readen also in the Church can not both be true and stand togeather And beholde whiles I thought this obiection could not possibly be refelled it was for certainty reported vnto vs here by some that were present at M. Iewels sermoÌ„ at Poules Crosse the fiftenth of Iuly last that he complained that M. Doctor Harding wroÌ„gfully charged the authors of the Apologie with this place as being a manifeste abusing and mangling of the third CouÌ„cel of Carthage For sayd he we alleage not this out of the CouÌ„cel of Carthage but of the Councel of Hippo. Did ye so in deede Is not your Apologie therin against you Is not the CouÌ„cell of Carthage both named in the Text and noted in the margent thereof Your Latine is thus In Apol. Ecclesi Angl. Vetus Concilium Carthaginense iubet ne quid in Sacro coetulegatur praeter scripturas Canonicas aÌ„d in the margeÌ„t thus it is noted TertiuÌ„ Carth. ca. 47. And the English interpretation hath thus The old Councel at Carthage coÌ„maunded nothing to be readen in Christes coÌ„gration but the Canonical Scriptures and there lykewise in the margent ye put Concil Car. 3. cap. 47. How dare ye then so loudly to lie that ye alleaged the foresaied place out of the Councel of Hippo and not the Councell of Carthage It appereth well that Doctor Harding hath ye vpon the hippe when to saue your selues from the fall ye deny your owne words In his reply to D. Cole And wonder it is that M. Iewel would euer be the reporter of such an answer In his replie to D Harding .157 whereas himselfe hath vsed this very place of the CouÌ„cel of Carthage to like effect aÌ„d purpose as ye haue vsed it in your Apology Especially wheras there is no Councel of Hippo extant at al vnto which yet ye refer your selues CoÌ„sider therfore Indifferent reader of this place and suffer not thy selfe so to be abused that they shal make thee beleue that they alleaged not that Councell whiche thou maiest see with thy owne eyes to be named and quoted in theyr Apologie and that they folowed the Canons of the Councell of Hippo of whiche they can shewe no Canons at all that are extant In the Councell at Chalcedone Apolog. Ciuile Magistrate condemned for Heretiks by the sentence of his owne mouth the Bishoppes Dioscorus Iuuenal and Thalasius and gaue iudgement to put them from that promotion in the Church In what parte of that Councell Conf. 315. maie one finde this which you reporte In the thirde Action we doe reade that Paschasius with his two felowes the Legats of the Pope of Rome pronounced the sentence of condemnation against Dioscorus the forme whereof is fully there expressed How then Shall we thinke that one of the Popes Legates was a Ciuill Magistrate Or that the Ciuil Magistrate condemned Dioscorus ageine by the sentence of his own mouth when he was sufficiently iudged by the whole Councel of Bishopes Ye haue manie fetches yet you can not but be conuinced in this place of an impudent lye or extreme folie The most that ye might saie as farre as we can reache is that the Ciuile magistrate subscribed vnto the sentence of the Councell and by his voice also condemned Dioscorus for an heretike But this is not inoughe for you to saue your honesties For you must declare that the ciuil magistrat not only coÌ„deÌ„ned them by his testimonie or assent but also by his sentence and not such a sentence only as might concurre with the iudgmeÌ„tes of the Superiours lyke as euery bishoppe in a general Councel geueth sentence in causes Ecclesiasticall But it is included within that one senteÌ„ce which the chiefest in al the Councel do alow and geue but you must ê“ue that the ciuil mgistrat gaue the senteÌ„ce with his own mouth For so ye speake as though he had ben the the best man in the place and president of the Councel To this of Dioscorus that ye may aunswer the more fully I wil not troble yoâ— with Iuuenal and Thalassius whome ye haue also belyed in this mater Bishopes of an other sorte than Dioscorus was although you haue coÌ„deÌ„ned them together The Sixth Chapiter wherein is noted how the Apologie belieth and abvseth the Scriptures theÌ„selues It was saied indifferently to all the Apostles Apolog. Feed eye YOu meane Conf. 48. I am assured the one and tweÌ„ty of S. Iohn in which chapiter yet there is no meÌ„tion at al of the plural number with Feed ye but to S. Peter alone feede thou saieth Iesus my lambes feede thou my shepe Whether haue you a Ghospell not yet knowen to the world in which Christ saieth indifferently to al his Apostles feede ye Woe vnto you Scribes and Pharseis Apol. which haue takeÌ„ away yâ— keies of knowlege and haue shut vp the kingdome of heauen before men The Scripture saying Conf. 72. that one iote or title of the law shal not passe vntil all be fulfilled a changing of the numbre in any place of the Gospel must not be thought to be vnworth the noting Luâ—â— 11. Of the keie of knowlege Christ spake and not of keies in the plural number Paule saieth Apolo that the tyme should be when men should not awaie with holsome doctrine but be turned backe vnto â—ables and lyes and that wythin the very Church And that within the very Church Conf. 20â— Where finde ye these wordes in S. Paul That men should not away with holsome doctrine it is to be founde in the fourthe chap. of the seconde to Timothe And it is verified in all heretikes but that S. Paul â—hould referre those wordes to the very Church it selfe it is impudently attributed to the Apostle And to graunte vnto you as muche as might be for excuse of your wordes that in some sense it might be true that euen within the verie Churche men shoulde not away with holsome Doctrine that is that althoughe manie for theyr vnderstandinge dissented not from it yet in theyr lyuing they shoulde impugne it Yet to saye as you doe that S. Paule dothe expound his woordes of the verie Churche it is altogeather boldelie and falselie affirmed God Apolog. by
hys Prophetes often and ernestly commaundeth the King c. To wryte out the booke of the Lawe for hym selfe Ye bring this place to proue Conf. 303 that temporal Princes haue as much to doe with Religion as Bishoppes and Priestes For the Kinge saye you muste write out the Lawe Deut. 17. But whie leaue ye out that whiche foloweth accipiens exemplar takynge the Copie of the Priestes of the Trybe of Leuie By which woordes it is clearlie perceyued that it is not in the Kynges handes to meddle with Scriptures but as he receaueth them of his betters in that authoritie the Priestes King Ioas bridled the riot and arrogancie of the Priestes Apol. We finde no such wordes in the text Conf. 307 4. Reg. 12. Iosue receiued coÌ„maundements Apolo specially touching religion We haue readen the whole Chapiter Iosue 1. Confut. .305 and we find no suche specialities there but onelie that he shoulde passe ouer Iordane And diuide the lande of Promise and be of good cumforte and strength with other lyke woordes all to the Temporall Gouernement of the â—eople but of Religion Sacrifice Praying for the people expounding the Law c. no one sentence Yea rather as it appereth in the first setting of him in his office the scripture saieth expressly 〈◊〉 any thing be to be done for this Iosue Eleazar the Priest shal aske counsel 〈◊〉 the Lorde Nu 27. At his worde vndoubtedly at the Priests he shal goe furth and come in c. Which of the two then 〈◊〉 nerer to God aÌ„d worthier by his office He that speaketh himselfe with God or he that heareth God his word by any interpretatour He which geaueth the commaundement or he which must obey it Doe no more so with the scriptures aÌ„d if none shal let you to make your own sense vpon them yet neuer take so much vpon you to put in the text it self which is not of the Scripture And further consider whether this be not to adde and take awaie from the Scripture to make that of the plural nuÌ„ber which is of the singular only To suppresse those wordes which being put in doe dissolue the knoâ— of the question To put that in whiche is not at al in the text To alleage sayinges that can not be found And to misconstrue sentences that are founde And then when you haue considered all this conferre therewith that which ye finde in the Apocalipse of S. Iohn that If any man adde vnto these things Apo vl God shal lay vpon him the plagues that are written in this booke And if anie man diminishe of the wordes of the booke of this prophecy God shal take his part out of the booke of life and out of the holy Citie and from these things which are writteÌ„ in this booke The 7. Chapiter conteining the flat lyes of the Apologie There haue ben wittely procured by the Bishop of Rome certaine persons of eloquence enough Apolog. not vnlcarned neither which should put their helpe to his cause now almost desperate NAme the Pope which hath procured them Confut. 9 Name the Persone which haue ben procured and ye shal either confesse your faultes or stand gyltie for two lyes Proue also that he wylely procured ani meÌ„ to help his cause because this word wylely maketh your lye aÌ„d slauÌ„der more greeuous For either you meane that he did it in dâ—de and that he would not be sene to doe it either that he did it boldly and manifestly but yet vsed a witty and subtil meane vnto it ConcerniÌ„g the first he neded not to be ashamed to defend his cause He might boldly without reproch choose any of the lerned aÌ„d eloqueÌ„t Catholiks for that purpose For the faith which the whole Churche opeÌ„ly coÌ„fesseth â–ª what dishonesty at al is it to coÌ„maund aloud that the best lerned shuld declare it and by declaring of it coÌ„meÌ„d it that wheÌ„ iust cause is geueÌ„ of it it mai be knoweÌ„ for a truth sufficieÌ„tly pued ConcerniÌ„g the second it were a small part of policy to labour by a fancy to perswade the whole world in a falsitie Princes desirous to restrain the gospel sought many wayes Apolog. but preuailed nothing now almost the whole world doth begyn to opeÌ„ their eies to behold yâ— light What place hath your gospel in Spain Conf. 1â— What place in Italy What successe hath your gospel in France WheÌ„ Lady Marie was once proclaimed Queene how preuailed your preachiÌ„g Did ye not flee beyond sea into free Cities And why into those more thaÌ„ into ani other but because ye preuaile not with Princes but such as cal you to their fauour of whoÌ„ yet ther are so few and so weak in al ChristeÌ„dom that in the rekning they make a litle somme And now say you the whole world almost doth begyn to open their eyes A worshipful begining after xvâ— yearis But why say ye not without almost that al the whole world begiÌ„neth to opeÌ„ their eyes You haue a coÌ„science I trow in making a lye and therfore you add almost How much theÌ„ lacketh I pray you If Loâ—aÌ„ Paris Bonony Padua SalamaÌ„ca CoÌ„pluâ—uÌ„ and other great Vniuersities but smal â—ortioÌ„s of the whole if these were lightened by your gospel would ye put out your almost What meane ye by this almoste Perchance all is ouercomed with you sauing Rome itselfe and the small Cities about it Nay haue ye not greate and Princely states as of Florence Vrbine Genua Ferrara Millaine Venice Treuers Mentes Colone Salisburg and the Catholike Cantones And sundrie Countries as Bauarie Sauoy Burgundie Loraine Brabrant Flaunders Holland Artoys Henaut Friseland Guelderland Cleueland Prussia Carinthia And many Ilandes as Sicilia Corsica Sardinia Maltha and the ZelaÌ„ds And many kingdoms as Naples FraÌ„ce Spaine Pole Bohemie Hungary and Portugale and the Empire it selfe which see well enough how darke your gospel is But no matter for these small peeces What say you then to the new Indians which alone are greater than all whom we haue rekened If you lacke but them alone haue you all the world all most No This is so great a lye that â— might turne it backeward and say the whole world almost doth defie your Gospel All theyr trauayle hath in a manner come to naught Apolog. How say you to the late general CouÌ„cel Conf. 15 â–ª which had so woÌ„derful good successe and which is so executed in Rome it selfe that not only the Bishopes but Cardinals also are sent to theyr cures and goe obediently vnto them No bodye driuing it forwarde and without anie wordly helpe King Harry the eygth then is no body with you the Duke of Saxonie Lantgraue of Hesse King Edwarde the sixth the Villaines of Boheme the Hugonites of France c. Al these then are no body On the other syde our cause againste the wil of Emperours If Charles alone had not geuen more to clemencie which ouercommeth most of all noble personages