and slights of the Doctors contayned in it they accuse it also of many grosse vntruthes without end or number in relating things out of due place and order to their owne aduantage in daubing and amplifying the speeches of D. Featly with much addition and substraction of matter As for Example 1. That M. Bugges the old Gentleman who first desired the former Dispute was sicke and solicited in his sicknes by some Papists about him to forsake his Religion And that it was feared he would haue fallen from his Fayth if he had not recouered of his sicknes which is altogeather false 2. That he was much confirmed in his Religion by hearing the former Disputation which vnlesse he did extreamly forget himself hauing often sayd the contrary is also false 3. That you Syr Humfrey found M. Fisher by chance in Drurie Lane whereas you know you came of purpose to offer him a friendly Conference with D. White 4. That M. Fisher hauing written the Question added vnder his owne hand he would answere vpon it negatiuely As challenging and expecting Opposers which was false for he was first asked by your self whether he would oppose or answere wherupon he wrote he would answere 5. That you Syr Humfrey tould M. Buggs if M. Fisher would come with foure or six at the most they should be admitted for his sake whereas it was expressely agreed on that D. White and M. Fisher should only bring an Assistant foure Witnesses and a Writer and no more with each of them and that the matter should be kept secret thereby to make the meeting very priuate Which M. Fisher duly obserued but when he came he found the house full of Protestants contrary to former agreement 6. That D. White and D. Featly being inuited by you to Dinner and staying a while after Dinner had notice giuen them as it were by chance that some Iesuits were in the next roome ready to confer with them and that the Doctors were at last perswaded to haue some Conference with them As if forsooth they had neuer heard of the meeting before when the truth is that some daies before D. White had receaued the Question and vndertooke to oppose agaynst it though afterward for more security he vsed D. Featly for his Champion and both of them came thither of purpose to make good the former challenge 7. The Question was falsely and sophistically printed by putting into the midst therof the figure of 2 in fauour of the Opposer who sought to make it a dubble Question 8. Before the Disputation began D. Featly hauing propounded many other poynts of Controuersie to diuert the Question That M. Sweete should answere they were scholasticall poynts not fundamentall Which was not so only he affirmed they were nothing to the purpose Which he was moued the rather to say because a little before he had desired two things of the Auditorie 1. That all bitter speeches might be forborne And 2. that nothing might be heard or spoken which was beside the Question 9. That M. Fisher being charged to haue slaundred Doctor White in a former Conference answered nothing which is false for he stood vp and solemnely protested vpon his Conscience that he neuer slaundred him 10. And againe that being charged to answere vpon his Conscience whether he belieued Christ and his Apostles taught the Protestant faith he refused to answere Which is meerely false It is true that D. Featly before he began to dispute coniured M. Fisher after an insolent manner to answere according to his conscience which M. Fisher accepted and wished him to doe the like I omit many other such Feates which the Hearers when they read affirmed to be plaine Lyes from whome soeuer they proceeded If the Doctors according to their vndertaking had giuen a sufficient and full Catalogue of their Professors in all Ages The Fisher had beene taken indeed in his owne Net and caught in the Question which himself propounded but contrarily hauing taken more vpon them then they were able to performe and not being able to set downe the Catalogue which according to the issue of the Question was then expected the Doctors themselues were manifestly taken in the Net of the Fisher Wherein by professing as they did that The true Church must be able to Name Professors in all Ages they haue so intangled themselues that howsoeuer they may dance in this Net to their owne shame and confusion they can neuer get out vntill they name them And now to come home againe to your selfe endeauoring in the meane tyme as you doe to ouerthrow the succession of their Church and not being able to shew another of yours what do you get or what do you seeke therby but only the ruine and demolishment both of your Church and theirs leauing no true Church vpō the earth which cannot subsist without a visible succession of Professors to be named in all Ages as you and your Doctors haue vrged And by consequence for wāt of such a visible Church you leaue no true Fayth at all nor true Religion in the world And who is a Naturall but he that denyes it Wherefore to conclude this Section your Doctors with a great deale of noyse hauing filled the aire with nothing but smoke If now their Aduersaries should turne their owne Ordinance against them and reason thus it is not your valor that would be able to defend them The Church that is Catholike as it ought to be or the Church whose fayth is Eternall or the Church of Christ and his Apostles must be able to name Successors in all Ages But the Protestant Church is not able to name the Professors of their Fayth nor the Successors therein to Christ and his Apostles in all Ages Ergo the Protestant Church is not Catholike as it ought to be nor the Church whose Fayth is eternall nor the Church of Christ and his Apostles The Maior is their owne and publickly produced by thē The Minor cānot be denyed vntill the Names be shewed Wherefore vntill this Fort be built how can you defēd them or where will you hide them from the power of this Gun-shot And yet as this worke is plainly impossible to be raysed or performed so it is no lesse impossible that the Protestants should be found the true Church by Consequence that any may be saued remayning in it Section II. In reference to a second point of the Appendix shewing their Conuersions in all Ages HAD you giuen vs such another Catalogue of your Professors as you receaued of theirs to make your party good agaynst thē you should haue shewed the like Conuersions of Heathen Nations to the Fayth of Christ by your Ministers in all Ages as that Booke hath shewed by their Apostolicall Preachers And that especially after those tymes wherin you pretend their Church was fallen and the spirit of God was departed from them As for Example in the third Age were conuerted Donaldus King of Scotland his Wife Children and Nobility The Court of
occasion to admire the little conscience of your late English Doctors in challenging the Fathers of the first fiue hundred yeares wherein if their Aduersaries might come to an indifferent and equall tryall with them the very Titles of the Fathers Books against them were sufficient to ouerthrow them Only in this place I will giue the Reader this short Notandum for the which if he desire sincerely to know and belieue the Doctrine of the Fathers he shall haue cause to thanke me When any of the holy Fathers do censure any poynt of Doctrine taxing it of Heresy or noteth it as the particuler opinion of some Heretike or reproueth it very much or wondreth at it especially if it be such a thing as euery learned Man may easily know or was necessary to be taught and that no other Father did therein oppose himself against him It is an euident Testimony that his Doctrine therein was the generall Doctrine of the Church at that tyme and ought to be so receaued of the Ages that follow Wherefore the Author of that Booke hauing shewed so many poynts of your Doctrine to haue beene so notoriously cēsured and condemned by the Auncient Fathers of the first fiue hundred yeares in the Hetetikes of those tymes besides many other poynts and some of those also condemned by Fathers and Councells in after Ages whereunto you haue not answered a word it is for ought I can see or perceaue a cleare demonstration that the Fathers of those tymes were theirs and that eyther your Professors were none at all or no other then those that were condemned by them Thus all things with them are infallibly certaine easie to be knowne and most conspicuous They follow the streame and current of that Doctrine which by many knowne Successions of holy and learned Men Martyres and Bishops as it were by so many Channells they deriue from Christ and his Apostles They follow the fame and greatnes of that Church which by conuerting Countries and Nations in all Ages is become eminent and apparent aboue all other sortes of Christians like a Citty vpon a Hill aboue the Moale-hills or like the Little Stone in Daniel which growing to be a Mountaine filleth the world with it's greatnes They follow the security of those Letters-Patents which the hand of God hath signed with his owne Seale and cōmended to the world by Attestation of many Myracles in confirmation of their Doctrine And lastly they follow the infallible and powerfull Authority of that Body which by Cēsures of Doctors Decrees of Coūcells from tyme to tyme hath euer confounded all those that opposed themselues against it While you in the meane tyme without any lineall Descente from those whome you pretend to haue beene your Auncestors without the Progenie of any Gentills conuerted by you without any warrant of Gods hand or sentence of his Iudges for you do still remayne in the darcknes of your inuisible Church tossed in the Sea of Error with euery winde of new Doctrine not knowing certainly whome to follow nor what to belieue vntill at the last euen the wisest of you being wearie of seeking and desperate of finding that which they seeke come to hold all opinions probable which is in effect to belieue nothing Good Syr had you produced such a Successiō such cōuersions of Nations such Myracles and Censures in the defence of your Church as that Booke hath shewed in confirmation of theirs all zealous Protestants had been bound to haue fallen at your feete and to haue honoured you for euer But now on the other side against such weighty and massie matters such cleare and conuincing proofes as these not being able to giue in euidence so much as one Professor in euery Age nor in any Age the conuersion of any Nation or the testimony of any Myracle or the Censure of any one Father in fauour of your Religion who seeth not that insteed of reason there is nothing but passion on your part and certainly for the honour of your cause it were better to hold your peace then reply so weakely in a matter of such importance For besides all that hath beene sayd against many other most expresse Sentences of the Auncient Fathers in those very poynts which you haue chosen to touch you haue only produced a few dribling Authorities as it were on the Bye some falsely translated and some falsely cited and some in respect of other expresse words agaynst you plainely falsified that not to accuse you of a bad Conscience though you make profession to be much versed in the Fathers yet the Reader must needes think you neuer saw or read so much as those few places which your selfe haue cited but only tooke them by retaile frō others And howsoeuer though they were admitted and taken as you giue them vp yet in my poore opinion they eyther touch not your Aduersaries at all or being a little considered make rather with them then against them Which sheweth great want of iudgment in you and I verily thinke if you will be pleased to examine them with me I shall make you see it Wherefore as in the former Section soe that you may know in this also how far you are chargable I giue you the summe of your accompt in this manner The Doctrine of that Church which was condemned by the Fathers of the first fiue hundred yeares was condemned by Christ and his Apostles But the Doctrine of the Protestant Church was condemned by the Fathers of the first 500. yeares as the most and best learned Protestants themselues haue also confessed Ergo the Doctrine of the Protestant Church was likewise condemned by Christ and his Apostles Section V. Myracles defended to be a sufficient Testimony of Truth and the Doctrine of the Fathers therein declared WHerefore to begin as you doe with Myracles most certaine it is that no true Myracle can be wrought but only by him Qui facit mirabilia magna solus and therefore whēsoeuer any true Myracle is shewed or sufficiently testified vnto vs in confirmation of any point of Doctrine it is an euident proofe of the truth thereof For a Myracle in that case is the Testimony of God who speaketh by workes as men by wordes sayth S. Aug. Epist 49. quaest 6. and is the subscription as it were of his hand and seale vnto it And certainly if Myracles were no sufficiēt proofes of true Doctrine they would neuer haue beene called Signes and Testimonyes in holy Scripture God would not haue giuen Moyses power of working Myracles Exod. 4. That the People of Israel might belieue he had appeared vnto him Our Sauiour would not haue sayd the Iewes had not sinned in not receauing him if he had not done those workes which no man els had done before him Ioan. 15. And in vayne should he haue promised that Signes should follow those that belieued and haue cooperated and confirmed the Doctrine of the Apostles by them Neyther could he in Iustice haue commaunded the world
of the Appendix shewing the continuall Visibility of the Catholike Church YOur owne Doctors in your owne house professed as you know The true Church must be able to name Professors in all Ages made it the very groūd of their Argument in that Dispute Wherefore in all reason before you went about to answere the Booke which you receaued of the Catalogue of our Professors you should haue giuen another or referred vs to some booke of an other of yours And that so much the more because hitherto such a Catalogue on your side hath byn held impossible to be found made or produced And hauing beene euermore demaunded and required for a hundred yeares togeather could neuer as yet be seene nor obtayned Certainly those your Champions which were chosen by your selfe and with great expectation vndertooke to doe it when they came to the Tryall performed nothing and all that they did was but cunningly to auoyde the Question giuen in these expresse termes Whether the Protestant Church was in all Ages visible especially in the Ages before Luther and whether the Names of such visible Protestants in all Ages can be shewed and proued out of good Authors Wherein euery man may see there was nothing els demaunded but a playne Catalogue or Table of the Names of your Professors in all Ages proued by good Authors According wherunto they receaued also another paper before the meeting which there was publickly read that ech partie should produce their Catalogues out of good Authors and then interchangably by termes defend them But this Table or Catalogue of the names of our Professors seemed a Lyon in the way of your Doctors which therefore they durst not come neere nor behold but sought by diuers straines to eschew it and to turne the eyes and eares of the audience from their expectation of it As first they sought to make two Questions of the Question propounded and flying the latter part insteed of shewing the visibility of their Church they would haue proued it à Priori as they tearmed it without shewing their visible Pastors which was the poynt demaunded Secondly they deride their Aduersaries for demaunding the Names of their Professors as if they had impertinently called for a Buttry Booke of the Names of those that euer were admitted into the Church of Christ irregiously comparing the Histories of the Church wherein the Names of her Bishops Martyrs and other holy Men were carefully recorded to Buttry Bookes of Names And for the same cause calling their Aduersaries Nominalls they boasted themselues to be Realls as if their Aduersaries had demaunded no Men but only Names of Men or as if the Professors of the true Faith like Knights Errants or those of the round Table had been no reall Men at all but only names which is asmuch to say as that the Hystories of the Church were meere fables Thirdly they sought to flinch by propounding sūdry tymes diuers other Questions to be disputed Which was as it were to put vp many Hares before the Hoūds thereby to conceale the Kennell of that Fox which was then hunted Fourthly they endeauoured to diuert the Question from prouing themselues the true Church by naming the visible Professors therof in all Ages which was the thing demaunded to proue the same by assuming they held the truth that is to say in euery particular Controuersie as for Example in denying of Transubstantiation Merits of Works and the like Which was as plaine a Transition as if in case the Question had byn about Transubstantiation their Aduersaries should haue gone about to proue it by prouing themselues to be the true Church that held it For both these kinde of proofes by a remote Medium do euidently transferre the Question the one from a generall to a particular point which was your Doctors fault the other from a particuler to a generall as in the other Example Fiftly being called vpon by the Hearers and especially by the Protestants themselues which were ten to one and confided much in their owne cause to giue the Names of their Professors in all Ages they named only Christ and his Apostles with others one or two more of the first Age alone Which according to the question vndertaken they should haue proued to be Protetestāts by naming Protestants that succeeded them in all Ages following but seeking euermore to auoyde that Rocke they would haue stayed there and before they went any further vrged to proue the Professors of the first Age to be Protestants not by naming their Successors but by examining their Doctrine Which againe had been to diuerte from the matter and to runne from the generall point then in Question to all particular Controuersies Sixtly Therefore when none of these deuises could satisfy the expectation of the Hearers fearing as it seemed least according to the words of the Question and playne intention of that meeting they should haue byn vrged againe by the Hearers to set downe a full Catalogue of all Ages as once before they were importuned to doe they suddenly brake off and so departed Seauenthly My L. of Warwicke imagining perchāce that this proceeded not so much from lacke of ability as from want of due preparation on their behalfe promised a Catalogue within 2. or 3. dayes which though sought agayne by letter neuer yet appeared Eightly The Answerers themselues repayred the next day to your owne house agayne offering to deliuer their Catalogue with one hand so they might receaue yours with the other Which another stāding by whome they also tooke to be a Protestant Minister affirmed to be very reasonable and indifferent But you answered You knew their minde for that point and that they would neuer doe it before the Names of the first Age were tryed and so of the rest in order Ninthly a printed Catalogue was sent to your selfe in particuler hoping it might serue as an engine to importune and as it were to extort another from you or from your Doctours But all in vayne which maketh many much to feare that this Catalogue of your Professors will neuer be produced and consequently that your Church cannot possible be the true Church of Christ And now no maruell if some of the Hearers when they saw the Booke of The Fisher catched in his owne Net writen as it were in triumph of your victory in that Dispute compared it to those other Puritan Bookes which haue been lately printed of the great victories of the Protestants in their Warres against the Catholiks beyond the Seas whereas in truth not the Catholikes but the Protestants themselues haue beene alwayes notoriously vanquished and ouerthrowne And presuming it came forth from his owne fingers that hath the principall part therin they spare not to say that it better deserued to be called The feates and lyes of Doctor Feat-Lye then the other Title which in falshood well agreeing with the Booke it selfe in that respect alone might iustly seeme a fit lace or facing for it For besides the sundry shifts
the Prince of Arabia pag. 20. In the fourth Age the Bessites Dacians Getes and Scythians pag. 26. In the fifth Age the Sarazens the Scots the Irish pag. 32. In the sixt Age the Pictes the Gothes the Bauarians the English pag. 36. 38. In the seauenth Age diuers Sweuians the Westphalians and many of our Nation People of Teisterbandia of Westphalia of Holland the King and Queene of Persia with forty thousand Percians pag. 42 44. In the eight Age Saxons Borucluatians the Frisians the Hassits the Thuringians the Catti the Erphordians two Saxon Dukes pag. 48. In the ninth Age the Danes Swethens and people of Aquitania the whole Iland of the Rugians the Bulgarians the Ruthens or Russians pag. 52. 54. In the tenth Age Worziuous the last Pagan Duke in Bohemia the King of Norway the Polonians the Sclauonians and Hungarians Heraldus King of the Danes and Sueno his Sonne pag. 60. In the eleuenth Age the Prussians the Vindians also Pannonians and Transiluanians the lapsed Hūgarians pag. 64. 68. In the twelfe Age the Pomeranians the people of Norway Magnus King of the Gothes pag. 70. 72. In the thirteenth Age the Liuonians the Lituanians innumerable Tartarians pag. 76. 78. In the fourtenth Age the Canary Ilandes the Chumans the Lipnensians Bosnians Patrinians and other Sclauonian Nations pag. 84. In the fifteenth Age Samogessians the Kingdomes of Bentomine Guinaea Angola and Congo Zerra Iacob Emperour of the Abissyns pag. 90. In the sixteenth Age the Kingdome of Manicongo in Africa the Kings of Amanguntium and Bungo innumerable Indians Iaponians Brasilians and other Westerne and Orientall people more Countries and Kingdomes then all Christendome before In the seauēteenth Age the King of Sarra Leaena in the East Indies with his Brethren and Children besides many other in China Iaponia Persia and other Nations This Argument taken from the great increase of fruit which continueth and abideth among them Ioan. 15. 16. and from the wonderfull propagation of their Religion not only in the first fiue hundred yeares after Christ but also much more in the Ages following to this present tyme is surely a most forcible and strong perswasion that they alone among all other sortes of Christians are the company and people whome God had blessed Haue Idolaters been chosen and preserued by Almighty God before his owne Seruants to perswade in the force of his word innumerable people from tyme to tyme to renoūce and tread vnder their feete the Auncient Gods of their Forefathers in whome they so much confided and to receaue him for their true and only God who whipped and crowned with thornes was nayled to a Crosse in the sight of the world and so dyed Haue all these seuerall Countries and Kingdomes so extremely different in clymats in tongues in affections in customes and in natures beene voluntarily reduced to the vnity of one and and the same Fayth in Christ and to the obedience of one Pastor vnder Christ by the followers of Antichrist Haue the limmes of the Diuell reformed the sauage brutish and wicked manners of so many People and Nations changing their hartes and bringing them vpō their knees to serue their Creator with piety and humility and in exercise of all kind of vertue Then I must needes confesse it seemeth vnto me that eyther God himselfe must be in loue with Idolatry or Christ himselfe must become Antichrist or the Diuell himselfe hauing forsaken his malice is now changed to be a seruant of Christ Neyther do I see how possibly you can deny these innumerable Nations to haue beene conuerted by the true Church recommended vnto vs in holy Scripture vnlesse we deny both Church and Scripture For by these Conuersions of Nations in all Ages your Aduersaries doe manifestly proue themselues to be that Church which must in the end conuert all Nations and was therefore surnamed Catholike or Vniuersall And thereby it cannot be denyed they make it most apparent the promises thereof in the Law Gen. 22.17 Gal. 3. In the Psalmes 2. 71.6 21. 28. In the Prophets Isa 2.2 11. 60. 61. 62. Hier. 33. Ezech. 33.22 Dan. 2.44 c. In the old and new Testament Matth. 24.14 28.19 Luc. 24.47 being so euidently performed by thē that they alone are the spirituall seede of Abraham Rom. 4.13 Gal. 3. The inheritance of the Sonne of God Psalm 2. 47. The Mountaine on the toppe of Mountaines Isa 60.12 The Mountaine filling the world Dan. 2.44 The glorious Citty Psal 86. whose gates must be alwayes open that the strength of the Gentiles their Kings may be brought vnto it and the Nation and Kingdome that will not serue it must perish Isa 60.11.12 That blessed Company Isa 61.9 whome our Sauiour promised to assist all dayes or euery day teaching and baptizing all Nations vnto the end of the world Matth. 28. 24. Heere againe as in the end the former Section if they should argue Syllogistically against your Doctors in this manner though you had the strength of Hercules I think you would hardly be able to defend them That Church which conuerted Nations in all Ages is the true Church of Christ and his Apostles recommended vnto vs in holy Scripture But the Catholike and not the Protestant Church hath conuerted Nations in all Ages Ergo the Catholike and not the Protestant Church is the true Church of Christ and his Apostles recommended vnto vs in holy Scripture Section III. In reference to a third point of the Appendix shewing their Religion to haue byn confirmed by Myracles in all Ages HAd you giuen vs a view of so many Nations reduced to the Faith of Christ by your Professors as he hath named conuerted by theirs that your Church might not appeare altogeather inferior to theirs you should haue shewed some points of your Religion confirmed by Myracles against them as that Booke hath declared many points of theirs in all Ages miraculously authorized and as it were subscribed by the hand of God against you those so euidētly testified not only by Auncient Histories but also by the holy Fathers themselues not liable to any exception in the first fiue hundred yeares downewards as they seeme to enforce all good Christians to belieue them As for Example in the second Age Narcissus Bishop of Hierusalem turned water into Oyle for the vse of the Church Eusebius lib. 6. Cap. 8. 9. S. Balbina and her Father restored to health by touching the Chaynes wherwith with Pope Alexander was bound Baron An. 132. n. 2. Cures wrought by the Bodies and Sepulchers of Martyrs Iustin. quast 28. In the third Age the Myracles of S. Gregorie the wonder-worker some of thē wrought by the signe of the Crosse Nissen in vita Greg. Thau And S. Basil de Sp. Sanct. cap. 29. Also Myracles confirming the Eucharist Reall Presence Cyp. ser de Lapsis Also S. Cecily shewed to Valerian the Angell Guardian of her virginitie Metaphrastes and Surius in her life In
vpon paine of damnation to belieue a thing so incredible as that Christ being Crucified was risen againe in his owne flesh and ascended into Heauen if many other Myracles which the Apostles wrought in confirmation therof had not made it euidently credible as S. Austen disputeth in his booke de Ciuit. Dei lib. 22. cap. 7. and in the former Epist. 49. quaest 6. albeit he well obserued that this kind of proofe was euer lowdly and extremely laught at by the wicked Pagans yet most true it is which there he also affirmeth that we should not belieue Christ to be risen againe frō the Dead if the Fayth of Christians did feare in this point of Myracles the laughter of Pagans Wherefore to answere those places of the Fathers which you obiect not only agaynst so many of their owne Testimonies alleaged by your Aduersary but also against Scripture and against Christian beliefe it selfe grounded vpon Myracles as hath beene noted you must further vnderstand that the world hauing beene once perswaded by myraculous operations and workes of wōder to belieue the Doctrine of the Apostles with this firme promise that it should alwayes remaine with them and their Successors the visible Pastors of the Catholike Church vniuersally spread ouer all the world it ought not to belieue any other Doctrine or any other Myracles pretended to be done in opposition to that Doctrine which by continuall Tradition hath beene receaued frō them For as there can be no after-word of God contrary to that which was first preached soe there can be no latter Myracles contrary to the testimony of those by which the world first belieued but rather as S. Paul saith If an Angell from Heauen should preach otherwise then we haue receaued we should hold him accursed This made Tertullian in the Booke you cite de Praesc cap. 44. to protest against all Myracles supposed to be done against the Tradition of the Church whereof S. Augustine in his Booke de vnit Eccles obiected by you giueth the reason yet more plainly shewing that the Catholike amplitude or vniuersality of the Church by conuersions of Nations in all Ages doth more euidently proue it to be the true Church of Christ then any other worke which is done therein for it is more manifest to sense and human reason that the cleare Prophesies of the true Church in holy Scripture are fullfilled and accomplished only in the Catholike Church which accordingly in all Ages doth visibly spread it selfe ouer all the world then it can possibly appeare that any worke of admiration is truly a Myracle surpassing the force of Nature or power of the Diuell whereof it followeth that the true Church is more manifestly knowne by the accomplishment of those promises then by the wondrous effects of any Myracles and that Myracles doe not soe well and cleerly proue any Church to be Catholike as the Church being visibly Catholike doth manifest those Myracles to be true which are approued by it Whereof it followeth againe that all Myracles which are done against it or agaynst the vnity thereof are as firmely and constantly to be reiected Which is it that he also teacheth lib. 13. cont Faust. cap. 5. and Tract 13. in Ioan. and lib. 22. de Ciuitat Dei cap. 8. obiected by you And heere by the way I beseech you to note how much Saint Ansten esteemeth the former Argument of the conuersions of Nations in all Ages according to the promises therof in holy Scripture which he maketh such an euident marke and such an infallible proofe of the true Church that he preferreth it before Myracles And for the same cause lib. 22. de Ciuit. Dei cap. 8. he spareth not to say That he who seeketh to be confirmed by Wonders now is himselfe to be wondred at in refusing to belieue that which all the world or the visible Church through the world belieueth Which your selfe also hauing obserued you may wōder at your self both in refusing to belieue what you know the visible Catholike Church for a thousand yeares through the world belieued and wherin I also wonder my selfe at your not obseruing that S. Augustine doth wonder at you in that very place wherein you suppose he agreed with you as by and by I shall make it appeare Adde in the meane tyme to that which hath beene sayd that the Myracles whereunto the holy Fathers alleadged by you forbid vs to giue credit as vnto Arguments not sufficient to proue the Truth of Religiō were eyther Myracles in apparence only and such wherewith Heretikes might easily be deceaued or so deceaue as S. Augustine speaketh in the former place vpon Ioan not such as might reasonably induce any prudēt man to belieue thē As Dreames and Visions and exauditions of Prayers like vnto those of the Donatists against whome wrote Saint Augustine lib. de Vnit. Eccl. cap. 16. Or such as were Testimonies of the Iustice and mercy of God in generall and not of Doctrine in particuler as were those whereof S. Hierome speaketh Or finally such as being wrought by wicked men exceeded not the power of the Diuell as S. Augustine obserueth lib. 20. de Ciuit. Dei cap. 19. Tract 13. in Ioan. Or were not sufficiently testified but rather sayd then proued which Tertullian lib. de Praeser derideth and sayth that the power of Heretiks was nothing like but rather contrary to the power of the Apostles for their vertue was not to rayse the Dead but rather to kill the liuing literally fullfilled in Caluin Bolsec in vita Caluini who pretending by his prayer to rayse a counterfaite dead man being then truly aliue was thought to be the cause that he was instantly slaine eyther by God or the Diuell In the same sense also Epiph. lib. 1. de haer cap. 30. vrgeth Ebion to rayse some dead man c. assuring himselfe that he could not doe any true Myracle by meanes of his false Faith yea though he called vpon the name of Christ. Not so the Myracles alleaged by your Aduersary which hauing beene wrought and belieued and most authentically testified by soe many most holy most prudent and learned Witnesses in confirmation of that Doctrine which is professed against you need no more to feare the laughter of Protestants thē the Myracles of former tymes as S. Austen saith had cause to feare the laughter of Pagans And such as belieue them not may iustly feare to be condemned as Pagans for belieuing nothing To deny therefore this Doctrine of Myracles seemeth noe lesse impious then to deny Christianity it selfe and to affirme that myracles haue ceased sithence the tyme of the Apostles were noe lesse vnreasonable then to reiect all humane Testimonies and in particuler the Authority of S. Augustine himsefe in those very places obiected by you For in that very place of S. Aug. de Ciuit. Dei lib. 22. cap. 8. which you alleage against Myracles That they were necessary before the world belieued to induce it to belieue And That he that
Cyprian which Bellarmine himselfe lib. 2. de Euch. cap. 9. holdeth to be none of Cyprians Wherein you must giue me leaue to tell you that your selfe much more deserue to be accused For first albeit Bellarmine doth say he thinketh that Sermon de Coena Domini not to be S. Cyprians yet he addeth immediatly in the same place that it is The Sermon of some auncient most holy and most learned Man as the Aduersaries meaning Protestants do confesse which words that you might with more shew eleuate and auoyd the former Authority were fraudulently concealed by you It is the worke of some learned Man of that Age sayth Erasmus in his annotations vpon the workes of S. Cyprian In tyme not much inferior to Cyprian sayth Fulke in 1. Corinth cap. 11. Wherefore doe we reuerence the Authority of S. Cyprian but because he was an Auncient holy and learned Father If therefore the Author of this Sermon was a most holy and learned Man as Bellarmine sayth the Protestants themselues confesse and of the same Age with S. Cyprian or in tyme not much inferior vnto him as I haue shewed that the Protestants themselues doe likewise witnesse why should any Protestant reiect him Besides though Bellarmine thinketh this Sermon to be none of Cyprians yet many other Deuines of great name Cypriano tribuunt doe iudge it to be the worke of S. Cyprian as well for the likenesse of the stale as for the dignity of the matter sayth Gaulortius a learned Protestant in his annotations thereupon Why then may not your Aduersarie follow heerein the iudgment of many other great Deuines In fine your Aduersary may alleage for himselfe in this matter the testimony of S. Augustine cont Donat. lib. 4. cap 22. his words are these From that Theefe to whome not being baptized it was sayd This day thou shalt be with me in Paradise the same S. Cyprian tooke no sleight document that passion or death or Martyrdome doth sometyme supply the place of Baptisme According whereunto both in sense and words in the same Sermon de Coena Domini it is sayd and therefore according to S. Augustine by S. Cyprian That our Lord c. deferred not his benefit but with the same speedy Indulgence he gaue presently aswell a document as also an example thereof saying vnto the Theefe This day thou shalt be with me in Paradise He had his condemnation and punishment for robery but his contritioÌ„ of hart changed his payne into Martyrdome and his bloud into Baptisme Why now may not your Aduersary cite that Sermon as Saint Cyprians which Saint Augustine himselfe so long a goe alleadged vnder the name of Cyprian First therefore heerein you deserue both blame and shame insimulating your Aduersary of fraud for misalleaging S. Cyprian by the testimony of Bellarmine and fraudulently coÌ„cealing those words of Bellarmine in the same place which euen the testimonyes of Protestants themselues do shew the words alleaged by your Aduersary out of Cyprian to be of no lesse Authority then the words of Cyprian Secondly you deserue the more blame heerein because you alleage agaynst it another place out of S. CypriaÌ„ which according to the opinioÌ„ of Bellarmine in the same place in the same Chapter is none of Cyprians And plaine it is that the Sermon of the Supper of our Lord alleaged by your Aduersary and the other of Chrisme alleadged by your selfe are both the Sermons of the same Author for the whole Booke contayning 12. Sermons is intituled Of the Cardinall workes of Christ and dedicated to Pope Cornelius the Martyr who liued in the tyme of Cyprian And therefore he that denyeth the one hath no reason to affirme the other to be the worke of Cyprian How then out of the same mouth could you breath both hoat and cold And how out of the same Bellarmine could you proue the Sermon alleadged by your Aduersary to be none of Cyprians and affirme agaynst Bellarmine the other alleaged by your selfe to be the worke of Cyprian Thirdly the like foule fraude coÌ„mitted by you appeareth yet more grossely in the words which you cite out of the same Author who when you take him to be with you is Cyprian but not Cyprian when he speaketh against you The words of the Author are these Our Lord therefore at that Table wherein he made his last Feast to his Aâ—ostles with his owne hands gaue Bread and Wine but at the Crosse he gaue his Body to be wounded by the hands of his Enemie that sincere verity and true sincerity being more secretly imâ—â—inted in the Apostles might expound to Nations how the Wine and the Bread was Flesh and Blood and after what manner tâ— causes agreed with their effects That diuers shapes might brought to one Essence and the things signifiyng and the things signified might be called and knowne by the same names Thus S. Cyprian But not thus Syr HuÌ„phry for hauing alleaged the words which seemed to make for him he gaue Bread and Wine to his Apostles but his Body to his Enemies he chopt off with an c. the words following That sincere verity and true sincerity being more secretly imprinted in the Apostles might expound to Nations how the Wine and Bread was flesh and Blood which as euery man may see are expressely against him and serue to expound the meaning of the Author in the rest of that Sentence which though otherwise beeing a little obscure yet being a little considered may be thus explained Our Lord sayd to his Apostles This is my bodie which shall be giuen for you when at the table he gaue to them visibly Bread and Wine but at the Crosse he visibly gaue his owne Body that his Apostles thereby might visibly see he had giuen them inuisibly his owne Body because he gaue them the same Body into their owne hands which was giuen for them into the hands of their Enemies 1. That the sincere verity and true sincerity heereof being thus secretly imprinted in the harts of the Apostles they might confidently expound to all Nations how the Bread and Wine of that table was truly and sincerely Flesh and Blood 2. How the causes agreed with their effects the words of our Sauiour which were the causes going before agreed with their effects both at the Table and at the Crosse that followed after 3. How vnder diuers â—hapes of Bread and Wine at the Table was contained but one the same Essence because the same shapes remayning the Natures of Bread and Wine by the omnipotency of the Word were changed oâ— reduced into the Nature of his Body as before you haue heard â—ut of his former sermon 4. How the thinges signifying which were the shapes of Bread and Wine remayning and the things signified which were the Body and Blood of our Sauiour came both to 〈◊〉 called by the same names because the one did signify exhibit and coâ—aine the other By all which it appeareth the Author hauing his right brought backe againe and his owne
breath being restored againe vnto him which you had thought to steale and smother that he plainely confesseth the Bread and Wine to be Flesh and Blood and that the Nature of the one being changed into the Nature of the other they are both reduced into one Essence which is the same Doctrine that your Aduersary professeth and maintayneth against you Your Aduersaries affirme the Bread to be made a Sacrament and the Body of Christ by the words of Consecration for the which cause they not only adore it before they receaue it but also they haue euer held that it might be lawfully giuen to Infants and that which remaines thereof they are wonte to reserue to be giuen afterward to the sicke or to others that come to receaue as occasiō requireth You Protestāts affirme on the other side that it becōmeth a Sacrament and a Seale of the Body of Christ vnto you without any change in the thing by the liuely Faith of the Receauers and consequently you giue it not to Infants because they cannot receaue it with that Faith which makes it a Sacrament and that also which remaineth thereof after the whole Action you take to be no better then common Bread and soe you vse it As custome is the best interpreter of the law so the practise of the Church is the best interpreter of her owne Doctrine Wherefore to know what S. Cypriā with the Church of God in the secōd Age after Christ belieued at that tyme concerning this point of the B. Sacrament there can be no surer way then to examine what is practized in communicating the same to Infants and in reseruing of it to be taken as need required Which S. Cyprian in his sermon De Lapsis his owne vndoubted worke hath not obscurely recorded for he relateth Teste meipso sacrificantibus nobis my selfe being witnes and we our selues offering sacrifice that an Infant hauing beene fedde with a sopp of wine before an Idoll and being afterward brought to Church was much tormented during the tyme of the Sacrifice and when it 's turne came to receaue it resisted so vehemently that the Deacon was faine perforce to open it's mouth and to power in somewhat of the Sacrament that was in the Chalice but sayth S. Cypriā The drinke sanctified into the Bloud of Christ brake out of her polluted bowels c. In which Sermon he likewise testifieth That a certaine Woman when she would with vnworthy hands haue opened her coffer wherein was reserued the Holy Thing of our Lord there sprung vp fire from thence wherewith she was so terrified that she durst not touch it And That another defiled Person presuming to receaue with others could not eate nor touch the Holy Thing of God for in his opened hands insteed thereof he found Ashes By Document whereof sayth S. Cyprian it is shewed that the Lord doth depart when he is denyed By which Documents of reseruing the Eucharist and giuing it to Infants they who will not be obstinate may also learne out of S. Cyprian that the Eucharist after the words of Consecration was belieued to be really the Body of Christ and not figuratiuely by Fayth only to him that doth worthily so receaue it Wherefore to conclude this Dispute concerning the Testimony of S. Cyprian for Transubstantiation and Reall Presence as it was false that your Doctors claymed him in the former Conferēce so being plaine agaynst them in this point besides many other of no lesse importance it was fondly done of you to say they claymed him Section IX S. Augustine falsly alleadged by Syr Humphry against the Reall Presence FYnally against the Reall Presence you obiect other places of the Fathers affirming the Sacrament to be a figure of Christs body which your Aduersaries deny not For they define all Sacramēts to be signes and figures according whereunto they also holde that as the Sacrament of the Eucharist is a figure in respect of the Shape or externall accidents therof so it is the Body of Christ in respect of the thing contained in them But now that the Eucharist is only a figure or that it is not the Body of Christ which you should haue proued against them or els you proue nothing none of the places alleaged by you do shew neyther is it possible in all the Fathers to find so much as one place that doth sufficiently proue it While they in the meane tyme besides many most expresse Scriptures Matt. 26. Marc. 14. Luc. 22. Ioan. 6. 1. Cor. 11. confuting also your principall obeiction that the Body of Christ cannot be in two places Act. 9.5.22.8.23.11 1. Cor. 15.8 They I say on the other side produce so many superabūdant Authorities from the Fathers Councells in all Ages conuincing the holy Eucharist to be the Body of Christ that I must needs say they haue discouered more bouldnes if not impudency thē learning or conscience who eyther in bookes or in Pulpits haue pretended to shew that the Fathers in this point are plainely against them To make this appeare it may suffice at this tyme briefely to set down the beliefe only of those Fathers in particuler which your selfe in your papers haue produced for you Tertullian S. Austen S. Ambrose S. Hierome and Gelasius shewing how euidently they teach the cōtrary Doctrine aswell in their writing elswhere as in those very places which your selfe haue cited First therefore let vs begin with Saint Augustine who in his Workes making often mention of the Sacrament giueth vs these particulers of his Doctrine therein That before the words of Consecration that which was offered is called Bread but after the words of Christ haue beene pronounced now it is not called Bread but it is called the Body Serm. 28. de verb. Domini That if Children had neuer seene the likenes of those thinges but only when it is offered and giuen in the Celebration of the Sacrament and that it should be tould vnto them with most graue Authority whose Body and Bloud it is they would belieue nothing els but that our Lord had neuer appeared to the eyes of Men saue only in that likenes lib. ◠de Trin. cap. 10. That Childrē were wont to receaue it apud Bedā in 1. Cor. 10. Who haue not the mouth of Faith to receaue it That it pleased the Holy Ghost was vniuersally obserued that our Lords body enter into the mouth of a Christiā before other meates in the honor of so great a Sacrament Epist 118. cap. 6. which must needes be meant of the mouth of the Body That we receaue with our hart and mouth the Mediator of God and Man Iesus Christ Man giuing vs his Flesh to be eaten and his Bloud to be drunke although it seeme more horrible to eate Mans flesh then to kill it and to drinke Mans bloud then to spill it lib. 2. cont Aduersaer legi◠Prophet That we doe not eate dead flesh dilaniated and cut in peeces as the Capharnaites vnderstood it for this