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A20393 A dialogue. VVherein is plainly laide open, the tyrannicall dealing of l. bishopps against Gods children vvith certaine points of doctrine, vvherein they approue themselues (according to D. Bridges his judgement) to be truely the bishops of the Diuell. Throckmorton, Job, 1545-1601, attributed name.; Penry, John, 1559-1593, attributed name.; Marprelate, Martin, pseud, attributed name. 1589 (1589) STC 6805; ESTC S109672 18,572 34

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Paules Churchyarde at which time he had his presse and letters taken away from him and destroyed for the same cause by my Lords grace of Canterbury nowe he workes in corners vp and downe the Country like a vagabond Puritane With a seared conscience did the Bishops that violence to him in regarde both of the cause and also for the greate charge he hath of wife and six smale children and nowe to bereaue his Poore family of him whose labors was their only comfort maintenance Jack Master Vicker how long was it since Walde-graues gooods were destroyed I haue heard of him before nowe but I knowe him not Minist Tushe you knowe him well enough I am sure it is since his goodes were destroied about Ester was a twelue moneth Jacke And hath he bene all this time absent from his family Minist I Sir and if he had bin there he would easily haue bin had for he hath bin watcht wel enough for that Puritane I will tell you Sir howe they deale with him when they haue any suspition that he is at home although he durst neuer come home they sticke not in the deade time of the nighte to breake downe the maine wales of his house and enter in with constables and pursiuants and this is a common thing with them Jacke I am perswaded the Bishops had bin better to haue giuen him freely 2. hundred pounds towards the setting vp of a newe printinge house for himselfe then to haue destroied his as they haue done Minist I thinke so for it may be he woulde haue followed his calling some other way then to be imploied in those things Jacke Yonder comes a man plodding a pace after vs whatsoeuer he be Minist It may be our companie wil increase and so we shall goe the more cheerefull for it begins to to be late and it is dangerous going here abouts late I can tel you Puritane It may be he is one of your coate Master Vicker Minist I cannot tel but if he be he shall be welcome to me Jacke Surely he comes a pace whatsoeuer he be Minist It may be he woulde be glad of company Jacke Well let vs goe on and continue our talke Puritane Master Vicker I thinke be weary of our communication if you be let vs knowe Minist Noe by my faith Sir not I say what you wil a Gods name Puritane Fye Master Vicker will you sweare I thinke you learned that of your Lord Bishop of London for he vseth it often when he is at boules Jacke What wil Bishops sweare Puritane Sweare Sir I that they wil and defende it to when they haue done For in the first booke of Martin there is mention made of the Bishop of Londons swearing when he is at bowles And the Bishop of Winchester in answering the same saith thus in page 62. of his booke That our Sauiour Christ vsually sware by his faith in his sermons For he saide Amen Amen which is as much to say saith he as by my faith by my faith Jacke Why is that a Bishoppe of God that will sweare thus Minist Fo I haue hearde my Lords grace of Canterbury sweare by his faith an hundred times yea and by God to sometimes and what he doth I take it as a good president for such as I am to followe Puritane I le tel you Master Vicker I am of doctor Bridges his minde of our Bishops for saith he page 339.340 That all our Lord Bishops in England are the Bishops of the Diuel And I am sure of it by these two marks vz. by their tyranical dealing against Gods children and by their wicked and vnconscionable liues that they are not of God Jacke I pray you hath Doctor Bridges written any booke that is published to this effect Puritane Yes indeed and the Bishop of Canterbury hath confirmed it by his authorising of the same and also by his continual practise against Gods children Jacke But I pray you Sir howe wickedly hath he wrested the Scripture in saying our Sauiour Christ continually sware in his sermons when he saide Amen Amen Puritane Why the Bishop of Winchester is most impudent in al his actions for very blasphemously in his sermon preached at Mary Overies at London said that a man might as wel finde fault with the holy Scripture as with our corrupt Common booke of prayer Iacke Our vpon him blasphemous wretch he is certainly the Bishop of the Diuel as Doctor Bridges saith Puritane Will you heare some more of his Diuinitie Jacke O Yes I pray you Sir And yet my harte trembleth to heare of such odious blasphemies as these Puritane He saith it the 49. page of his booke against Martine Marprelate That the Creed of the Apostles Athanasius the Nicene c. containe in them many palpable lies Nowe tel me your opinion of this is it not sound and substantial doctrine I pray you tell me Iacke Doctrine yea indede this may truly be saide to be the doctrine of Diuels Why whither will our Bishops runne in time trowe you if the Magistrate suffer them Puritane I wil tel you euen to their father the Diuel For they haue at no time taken in hand to write in defence of their hierarchie but it hath made their eies so to dazle that they run into most dangerous damnable errors as in this booke of the Bishopps will be prooued neere 500. errours yea in correcting and controling the mightie word of God and also haue interlaced their writings with such contrarietie of matter as one parte of their owne books may serue to confute the other with infinite absurdities yea and by your leaue to even flat treason Jack Many good men did neuer judge the bishop of Winchester to be but an hipocrite Puritane He is a most bitter man to all those that feare God and haue to deale with him for he may well be compared to a horse with a galde backe that hath bin so rubd that he winces frets and chafes so that he is ready to throwe himselfe to vtter destruction with purpose to hurt him that rubd him Even so this Bishop takes to himselfe so much libertie in abusing and profaning the holy worde of God against those that write in the Lords cause against their vnlaweful callings and that I feare me to the endangering both of body and soule Iacke I haue heard that when he was at Lincolne he dealt not so hardly with the ministers as nowe he doth and that often in his Sermons at Northampton he woulde confesse that the Discipline was vsed and practised in the Primitiue Churche a long time after the Apostles Puritane It is very true yet he saith in his book against Martin that the holy Discipline is a platform deuised he knowes not by whome And in an other place of the same booke he confesses that it was practised by the Apostles and long time after in the Primitiue Church and vppon the words where he saith it is not denied there is pasted at
nowe otherwise troubled with matters of state that he cannot intend it or if he coulde yet it is not for him so to abase himselfe in regarde of his high calling which he is nowe placed in Puritan As though the cause of God were to be neglected in respect of his high place if he were lawfully called thereunto as he doth very vnlawefully vsurpe the same contrarie to the lawe of God for is it possible he can be the true minister of God a temporal magistrate that is to serue God and Mammon to As th'Apostle saith Let him that hath an office attend vppon his office and not offices Minist Why howe dare you presume to say soe Were not L. Bb. established by her Maiestie consent of the whole parliament Puritane I graunt they were but the Lorde hath saide contray in the commaundement he gaue to his ministers Luk. 22. saying The kings of the gentiles raign over them and they that beare rule over them are called gratious Ll. but yee shall not be so but let the greatest amonge you be as the least and the cheefest as him that serueth and 1. Pet. 5. Feede the flocke of God which dependeth vpon you caring for it not by constrainte but willingly not for filthie luker but of a readie minde Not as though ye were Lords over Gods heritage but that yee may be ensamples to the flocke And in the first session of parliament holden in the first yeare of her Maiesties raigne there was neuer a Lorde B. in the lande Minist If you wil haue noe L. Bb. howe shoulde the Church be gouerned then Puritane Accordinge as our Sauiour Christ hath commaunded as the holy Ghost hath set it downe vz. by pastors Doctors Elders and deacons Rom. 12. Ephes 4. 1. Cor. 12. Minist You are very full of scripture as though we haue not the same offices in effect though not in the same titles as for example haue not wee Parsons for Doctors Vickers for Pastors Churchwardens for Elders and Sidemen for Deacons to distribute to the poore Puritane And what for Archbishops and Lorde Bishops Jacke I will tell you for him Archbishopps for Popes and Lord Bishops for Cardinals Ha ha M. Vicker I see you are a good Churchman doe not you vse the pulpit sometimes Minist Noe indeede sir but I reade the Homiles somtimes and the Queenes Injunctions and doe my dutie as other ministers doe Puritane Me thought so by that fitte comparison that you haue made Jacke And haue you no more but one benefice neither and yet do all that Minister Yes in deede I say seruice at two more but I haue little profit by them marie the best is they are somwhat neere for they are all three within foure miles together Puritane And how can you serue them al vpon the Sabboth day Iacke Some of them are but small and I can make quicke dispatche with them betimes take my Mare and r de to the other and can make an ende of all by ten of the clocke and spende an houre with good fellowes at home before dinner to Puritane And Mast Vicker do you thinke herein that you discharge your duerie to God and those congre gations ouer whom you haue taken this charge Minister Why sir I discharge my duetie better then those that take vpon them foure or fiue Puritane Why is there any that takes vpon them the charge of so many Minister Yea a hundred in England Puritane Well I will cell you the fearefull judgements of God hangs ouer our heades and cannot be long deserred but fall vpon the whole land where to such dumbe idolls as you are is committed the charge of soules and to your selues eternall destruction of bodie and soule wherefore M. Vicker as you tender your owne saluation leaue this your vnlawfull calling of the ministery and betake you to some occupation or husbandrie Minist I care not what any of you spightfull Puritans say so long as I can haue the fauor of my Lorde Bishop Jacke I pray you M. Vicker let me spurre a question vnto you if I may be so bolde where do you serue Minist I serue in Middlesex Sir Jacke Who made you minister Minist My good Lord of London Puritane Like enough he hath made a greate many of blinde guides in his time besides you for hee made the Porter of his gate minister of Paddington being blinde Jacke O monstrous is this true did he so indeede Puritane It is most true for the Bishop of Winchester hath recorded it in a booke of his set forth in print Jacke Why what will our Bishops growe to in time if they be suffered for me thinks this is a feareful thing to make such ministers as can neirher see nor speake for it is like if he were his porter no doubt of it he had not the gift of teaching Puritane Very true but because he could doe him noe longer seruice he was so good to him to prouide for the poore blinde man that he might liue Jacke Sure I thinke when they come once to be Lords they cleane forget God and al godlinesse for I haue heard that there was some good thinges in him before he was Bishop of London for he wrote a book called the Harborowe of faithful subiects against Bishops wherein he saith Come downe yee Bishops with your thousands and betake you to your hundreds let your fare be Priestlike and not Princelike c. Puritane Indeede he wrote such a booke and the same words that you repeate I haue read in the same but alasse when he was at the best he was but a corrupt man and the best things in it sauor but of earth for there is many things handled in it very immodestly and vnchristianly but one thing especially he setts downe there which himselfe practiseth cleane contrary where he speaks of the habilitie that shoulde be in every minister of the worde that he shoulde knowe his quarter strooks to be able to conuince the aduersary c. Minist Why will you haue none Ministers but such as can preach I can tell you that the twentieth minister in the lande cannot preach Puritane The more the worse for you and the rest howe many soeuer there be stand without repentance in a most damnable state for you are most notorious murtherers of soules in taking vppon you so high a calling being so farre vnfitte for it so many as perish for want of teaching in your charge their bloude the Lord wil require at your hands Minist The Bishop knewe my abilitie before he made me minister Puritane Wel he stands in the state of damnation as you doe and thus much I say vnto you and to all Idole Ministers and to him and all vsurping Archbishops and Lord Bishops leaue your vnlawful callings into which you haue intruded your selues and with speed repent and humble your selues before the Majestie of God confessing your horrible and grecuous sinnes with Peters teares in that you are the cause yea
and also the verye murderers of so manye soules as perish in your charges knowing that the Lord will in that greate and terrible day require their bloode at your hands Jacke O Lorde my heart quaketh to heare of so greate and greeuous sinns as are in our Bishops and in the whole ministerie but our Bishops are the cause of all Puritane I will tel you Sir I am perswaded in my very conscience that the Lorde hath giuen many of our Bishops ouer into a reprobate sence for they doe wilfully oppose them selues against the Lord his knoen truth yea and persecute it and I suppose them to be in the state of the sinne against the holy Ghost for they haue manifested in their published writings yea pressed forth by authoritie suche horrible blasphemous hereticall yea damnable doctrines whiche my very heart trembleth to repeate in sorte as they haue set them down which if those whome they falsly call puritanes shoulde set downe or holde the like errors and dangerous points I warrant you the should soone be cut of from the face of the earth and right well they were worthy Jacke Nowe Sir I pray you let me heare some of the pointes they holde and that are so dangerous as you say that I may be able to justifie it to our dumbe doggs teeth at Austins gate in London when I come home Puritane First you shal vnderstand the Bishop of London hath published in print that in an Epistle or preface before Barnardeus de loques booke of the Church published in english that the puritanes may as well deny the sonne of God to be consubstantiall with God the father as they may deny the superioritie of Archbishops and Lord Bishops flat contrary to the saying of our Sauiour Christ Luke 22. Iacke O monstrous and blasphemous wretch that to maintaine his fleshly pleasure will make such an odious comparison Puritane Nay what say you to a Bishop that hath two wiues and both nowe liuing Doe you not thinke it is a thing tollerable in a christian common wealth where the Gospel is professed Jacke No indeed doe I not I hope our magistrats wil not suffer such a Bishop to liue it were monstrous among common Infidels much more intollerable that a Bishop in such a land as ours is where the Gospell is truely taught But I pray you is there any such now liuing Puritane Yes in deed is there and the Bishop of Saint Dauids in Wales is the man he is nowe liuing and both his wiues and yet stil remaines a Bishop Jacke Is it possible that a Bishop shoulde commit such an horrible act as this howe far are our Bishopps from obeing the commaundement of th'Apostle Peter who saith Feede the flocke and be ensamples to the flocke what ensample is this And doeth not the same God which saith Thon shalt doe noe murther which is death by our lawes doth he not also say Thou shalte not commit adulterie And yet a Bishop to haue twoe wiues at once liue in a Church professing the sinceritie of the Gospell What say you to this Master Vicker is not our Church wel gouerned thinke you Minist If it be true it is I must needs confesse a horrible thing and worthy of death but I do not beleeue it Puritane It is very true for the cause was brought before the high commissioners at Lambehith and howe it is smothered vp among the Bishops and the rest of the commissioners I know not yet but I could tel you the whole couclusion if I were at London but halfe an houre Jacke Why the suffering of this other like villanies to be committed in our nation are causes to stir vp the Lord to wrath against the whole land wherby he may spedily bring his judgments vpon vs yea euen to our vtter destruction Minist It is so if it be true but I wil not beleeue it Puritane Wel for the truth of the matter I referre you to the high commissioners where it is recorded with his wiues names vz. Elizabeth Gigge and Ales Prime Minist Indeede I haue heard of the like before that you puritans haue put forth a booke in print vnder the name of Martine Marprelate wherein many such things are mencioned Puritan There is nothing set downe in it but there is good proofe of the same the Bishop of Winchester who took vpon him to confute it hath confirmed it for the most part that he denies is most true Jacke What did he vndertake to confute it Alas he is altogether vnlearned for I haue heard of him in Oxford and the papists say they can make him beleeue the moone is made of greene cheese marry to get him a name forsooth being a correcter with a Printer in fleetstreete in London who printed a Dictionarie called Sir Thomas Eliotts dictionarye Cooper translated a peece of Robert Stephanus his Thesaurus and joined it to the same with a fewe phrases and so bereaued the famous Knight of his labor and calls it by the name of Coopers Dictionary howe say you Master Vicker was not this a knauish tricke tel me Minist I say you deale very vnreuerently with my Lord for I cann say nothing to the matter else for I knowe it not to be true Puritane What say you to this then master Vicker did you neuer heare of your Lord Bishop of London whoe made the Dyars in Thames street whoe were robbed by theeues that stoale their cloothe and brought it within his liberties which when the poore diars hearing where their clooth was and comming to the Bishop to demaunde their own goods he said if they woulde hang the theeues he woulde then tell them more which the dyars did and at their deathes confessed that to be the dyars cloth which the Bishop had but the pore men were neuer the neere for their cloth nor cannot get it or any parte of it to this day and this is confessed to be true by the bishop of Winchester in his answere to Martine Marprelate published in print by authoritie wherein he saith it is the Bishop of Londons own by the lawes of the land because it was taken within his liberties mary he speaks nothing of the lawe of God according to conscience in keping of thiefe stollen goods from their right owners for conscience is fled from them it seemes so soone as they are gotten to be Lord Bishops once Minist Yes Sir I knowe there is such a booke named Martin Marprelate a most vile and ssaunderous libel but I doe not thinke my Lorde of Winchester doth approoue any thing that is set do wne there in any of those books for they haue put forth three or foure books vnder that title Iacke Why Master Vicker howe doe they to get their books printed Minist Tush they doe wel enough for that there is a sedstious fellowe one Walde-graue who comonly prints all such bookes I knowe him wel enough hee did keepe a shoppe at the signe of the Crane in