Selected quad for the lemma: book_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
book_n	church_n	father_n	scripture_n	3,046	5	5.5888	4	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A35564	To J.S., the author of Sure-footing, his letter, lately published, The answer of Mer. Casaubon, D.D., concerning the new way of infallibility lately devised to uphold the Roman cause, the Holy Scriptures, antient fathers and councills laid aside	Casaubon, Meric, 1599-1671.	1665 (1665)	Wing C811; ESTC R3910	21,053	27

White 's miracle it seems you do not much trust to endeavoured to do it by strong asseverations and from thence proceeded to Oaths and Execrations against himself if it were not true c. so D. Hammond tells you you know where You are not come to Oaths and Execrations I am glad of it for then we should be forced to stop our eares instead of them we hear of strong asseverations of principles of nature and connexion of causes and demonstrations these we may hear and laugh The Doctor it seems by this application began to suspect somewhat which I do more then suspect But I believe had he seen your Sure footing and these pretty Corollaries he had never taken so much pains to consute you as he hath done But he also I perceive made some question whether Rushworths Dialogues the Apology and the Dispatcher were three or one The next injury I charge you you make nothing of and disclaim the testimonies of Popes and Prelates c. I say so you say you do not in that very page it may be but all that you have written doth tend unto this and you do it eminently in your Corollaries page 100 101. Still provided that Tradition be taken in your sense for orall tradition that is the instruction and catechising of fathers and mothers of families in opposition to written And so you explain your self Schism Disp p. 47. To Stop the way against the voluntary mistakes of mine adversaries I declare my self to speak here not of written tradition to be sought for in the Scriptures and Fathers which lyes open to so many cavills and exceptions but of orall tradition All the rest of your accusation is but words and impertinencies which I will not spend time upon To this may the third also which you call injurie be referred That I charge you you slight Scriptures Fathers and Councils as and call them in scorn wordish testimonies It is not your bare professing you respect and honour them in such and such a sense that will serve the turn The greatest Rebell in the world may tell his King he doth honour him as he is a Man perchance Gods creature made after his Image c. when he hath a knife in his hand to stab and murder him as a King So you deal with the Scripture you cast upon it all the dirt and scorn you can as Scripture in general you call it a dead dumb letter what do you think of the Author in the mean time you make it to be of no use at all as to the rule of faith or deciding of controversies of religion But if fathers and mothers of families tell you that understood in points of faith in this and that sence it is good Scripture and the word of God then it shall be Scripture with you and not till then As for other uses which godly people might make of them so highly recommended unto all people by the Ancients upon that score those uses you take away also whilst you forbid them to read them But this you will say doth not concern Oral Tradition properly in so doing you do no more then other Papists But then I must tell you it doth not a little aggravate the case that flattering mothers should be trusted by you for the conveyance of faith and Religion sound and sincere and the true sence of Scripture in things controverted to posterity and so many brought up to learning and so much more rational and intell gent not allowed where the Inquisition reigneth especially the use of them for fear they turn hereticks Before I proceed you charge me I call ordinary Citations testimonies though many citations have nothing in them of a testimony True but he that cites commonly doth intend his citation as a confirmation of somewhat that he saith and so it becomes a testimony in a larger sence as the word is commonly taken in Bellarmine for example and others Testimonia Patrum any words of theirs are so called though never intended for such by the authors nor attired in the formality of a testimony I wonder you should stick at such a thing but you may as wel ' wonder I take notice of it The fourth injury I say the onely thing you place infallibility in is Oral Tradition and the Testimonies of fathers of families Have not you told us many times you admit of nothing to have any part in the rule of faith but Oral Tradition Do not you upon that account exclude Christs promise to his Church Do not you forbid your adversaries to use dead testimonies that is Fathers and Councils or some book granted to be sacred yea elsewhere expressly any kind of testimony either from Scripture Councils Fathers or History except your Oral Tradition be first granted to you which granted all testimonies become uselss Is not this your business every where that tradition your tradition is the onely thing against which nothing must be heard and which onely gives credit unto all other things such credit as they are capable of You would make a man hope sometimes that you begin to be sensible of the absurdity of your doctrine which makes you so often say and unsay and contradict your self But I fear it is not so well but rather that you are afraid to offend your party and therefore write so variously and inconsistently You say you place infallibility in other things too though you make that the greatest Either you aquivocate in the word Infallibility and abuse your Reader or manifestly contradict your self and overthrow your own grounds But Popes and Prelates are masters of families also you say and therefore have a part or bear a share in your Tradition I could answer that flattering mothers is the word in Dr. Hammonds reply all along or most occurrent not without ground certainly and in the very manner or nature of this Tradition as it is explained it is certain they must be the greatest part incomparably But if we take in Fathers as well as Mothers which I suppose is your intention then Popes and Prelates may come in I will grant you but then it must be in the most literal sense as they are fathers of children as well as other men though they have no wives For though he may be called Pater familias I know that keeps a house though of servants onely yet servants men and women at large are not for your purpose as you explain the business of Tradition but such only who were taught by their Fathers and Mothers when Children neither are others mentioned by you that I remember Yea most of your arguments fall to the ground as natural affection and the like if others be admitted besides Children If therefore you take in Popes and Prelates as partners or actors in your tradition it must needs be you presuppose they have Children all or most Which though it may be true enough yet whether they will take it well at your hands to acknowledg it so publickly

Wits you so often tell us of who perchance look upon you as a crazy man and think it Charity not to offend you their applause to confirm you in your distemper If I had so much interest in you as some have I know what advice I would give you if that mentis gratissimus error as the Poet expresses it which ordinarily doth accompany such distempers have not taken too deep root To tell you truth that whole passage of yours in your Letter of Advice to your Answerer p. 14. I easily yeeld to those great discoursers c. I do not like Your language is modest enough were it in another cause but in such a cause as this your opinion I mean such study such sedulity yea such zeal as you there mention must needs do you great wrong Sir the worst I wish you is that you may be sensible of your case before it be too late and the best I can wish to our cause were it lawfull or charitable to wish hurt unto any that good may come of it is that all Romanists who meddle with Controversies were of your mind and opinion which I make no question but all men truly rational on either side would look upon as the ultimus conatus a pittifull one God knowes of a dying Cause as to reason I mean and good authority either of Scripture or of Ancient Fathers Now I come to particulars in the order I find them Infallibility you say the Popes personal Infallibility is not the thing you build upon and therefore not very sollicitous what becomes of it You do not it may be and Mr. Whyte doth not but others of your profession both for number and account incomparably the greater part who perchance will think I do them wrong to call you a part tell us otherwise and make it their chiefest Article Of this somewhat hath been said by me in my late booke and it is the opinion of divers others Papists and Pretestants that it is the main point or Controversie till you have disproved this I need to say no more Now if you and Mr. Whyte and some more whom you think considerable or a considerable partie be of another opinion and think it Heretical or Archiheretical to maintain the contrary what occasion you Romanists have to boast of your good agreement who are of such different beliefe in main fundamentals I leave to you to consider But was not this a sufficient ground which you call my mistake since you dispaired and gave over this which others of your company built so much upon to make you since you would not be so ingenuous or had not so much light yet as to acknowledg your error and return to us to make you look about I say to find somewhat else that you might build so many strange practises and opinions of your Church upon for which you know and partly acknowledge you have no ground at all or at least not sufficient ground either in Scripture or what we call Tradition that is the consent of Ancient Fathers I say no more In the next place you endavour to countenance your new way though not under the notion of new by the temper of the times which hath produced so many attempting witts Truly Sir it cannot be denyed but your opinion or way hath much of the temper of the times be it spoken without any disparagement or disrespect to any of reall worth whether you call them Witts or otherwise Not to speak of England lest I may be thought to aime at any particularly you cannot but know by report and by books that in some places beyond the Seas there is a sect of men who take upon them to be the onely Witts of the World and glory in that title whose chiesest Witt is to make a mock of all Religion and to scoff at the Scriptures which the dullest Complexions if they make it their study are very capable of and indeed rather deserve the name of Boufons some naturally have a faculty that way who are good for little else then Wits You might better have forborn that word which you often use when you tell us of men of real worth I am not so addicted to old things though you make me so but I can embrace new with thanks and congratulation when I shall see just cause Their attempt or project I profess I do not like who to make themselves the more admired trample over all that former ages which produced so many excellent wits had in great respect and esteem under the notion of Learning or Science However though some innovation in matter of humane Learning or Science may be born yet in such a fundamental of Religion as you make your way to be no man truly sensible of Religion but will abhorr it It is the ready way to no Religion at all or to any and you know many account them the onely Witts shall I say or wise men of the world that are of that temper I will not say it is your end but that it will be the effect of your new way give me leave to call it as I find it should it prevail which God forbid I have much reason to believe As for the rest that you object I have said it before but I must repeat it You play the Sophister too grosly and abuse your Reader shamefully when you tell us Your way is not new because the ancients of Vincentius Lirinensis I have given you a particular account I wonder you would name him maintain Tradition There is as much difference between that Tradition which they maintain and that which you do as there is between a brute and a man though both be animalia Neither will that help you to say they maintain some may speak so Tradition unwritten therefore oral For it may be so called in regard of the first original or Authors though since that recorded and attested by multiplicity of Authors And though there were no such attestation extant which cannot be said of true Tradition yet still you are as much to seek to bring it to Fathers and Mothers of Families in your sense which seem confident never came into any mans mind till you or Mr. Whyte dreamed it of all other inventions in this kind the most ridiculous I ever heard of So much of mistake laid to my charge Now to the injuries you complain of The first is That I confess my selt a stranger to Rushworths Dialogues and that I make some doubt whether Schisme Dispatcht and Rushworths Dialogues might not be of one Author though under two names Your descant upon this is my genius doth not incline me to trade in books that pretend to reason You do pretend indeed and so do most in your case with as much or more confidence ordinarily though the matter appear never so ridiculous to others and false as the most rational in best causes As in our English story he that could not confirm his new Revelations by miracles Mr.