Selected quad for the lemma: book_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
book_n	church_n	faith_n	word_n	3,077	5	4.1931	3	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A45834	A stop to a lying pamphlet falsly called Truths plea for infants lately published by Mr. Alexander Kellie, in answer to a book lately published, intituled, Infants baptism disproved ... / by Jer. Ives ...	Ives, Jeremiah, fl. 1653-1674.	1656 (1656)	Wing I1106; ESTC R9585	6,806	16

you may see in my Book page 2. Again A sixth Lye he tells a few lines after in the same 2 page of his Book where he saith that I said Infants could not blesse This is false for I said that Infants could not CALL Christ blessed as you may perceive by what I say toward the lower end of the third page of my Book for there is a sense in which all the works of God blesse and praise him Psal 145.10 But doth it follow therefore that all his works CALL him blessed Therefore to say I said Infants could not blesse or praise is false A seventh Lye is in page 9. where he supposeth me to Interpret Esay 65.20 as though Infants should live an hundred years before they dye a naturall death or else that they must dye in their estate in glory Both which are falsly suggested for I said the contrary that there should be no infant of dayes in the new Jerusalem and so saith the Text That the child not an infant in his sense should dye an hundred years old Now Reader how that which I have said in the 13 page of my Book can give a man that puts away lying lips occasion to suppose that either I must mean that Infants must live a hundred years before they dye a naturall death or else that they must die after they come to an estate of glory judge The eighth Untruth that he tells is page 10 of his Book where he saith That I like a base fellow said in the 16 page of my Booke that God makes but a bare promise but is not so good as his word Indeed if I had said so I had been base but there is no such saying of mine in the whole Book Sure this man might have been called Alexander the Coper-Smith since he can forge Lyes to wrong his Neighbour with so much confidence and publish them in Print as he hath done The ninth Lye I shall mention is in the 40 page of his Book towards the lower end of it where he saith That I said there was no Antiqnity for Infants baptisme in the first three hundred years after Christ This is false I said not so as you may see in the 68 page of my Book where I have these words viz. That Eusebius who wrote the History of the first three hundred years doth not mention the baptizing of one infant I also said in the same page That the Churches did not receive men to baptism but upon profession of faith and also That infants baptism was no Apostolicall Custome nor SO MUCH the Custome of those times as he did imagine Doth this prove that I said there was NO Antiquity for Infants baptism in the first three hundred years after Christ Nay doth not those words before mentioned and which are found in the beginning of the 69 page of my Book prove the contrary viz. That it was not so MUCH the Custome of those times c. Which plainly shewes that this error was crep in even in the first three hundred years though it was not so MUCH their Custome as it was afterwards Again Did not Origen live in the first three hundred years And doe not I say page 68 that Origen was thought to favour Infants baptism and yet this man dares to tell his Reader that I say there was no Antiquity for Infants baptism the first three hundred years which nothing is more false However I have shewed that if some Christian Parents who were eminent lights in the Churches in those times did not baptize their infants it much makes such a practice questionable that 's all I brought those passages for for many errors were crept into the Church at that time and the being of them then doth not prove the truth of them I shall now give a Catalogue of his unsavory speech that plainly will shew what spirit did assist him in writing his Book which because there was a word Printed in my Epistle to my Book that was not true Orthography that is to say not truly spelt that therefore I did no more know what the word meant then the heele of an old Cheese * See his Book towards the latter end of his Answer to my Epistle Suppose I had spelt the word false and that it had not been the Printers Errata doth this prove what he hath spoken that I doe not know the meaning of it no more then the heele of an old Cheese Doth it follow that because a man cannot spell a word that therefore he doth not know what is meant by it As for example Doth it follow that though a man should not spell Horse aright that he knowes no more what a Horse is then the heele of an old Cheese Nay further whereas he talks of the Mathematicks I know many Seamen that are better Mathematicians then Mr. Kellie that doe not know how to spell all the tearms of Art belonging to it and yet doe understand them better then the heele of an old Cheese By this you may see he matters not what he saith Again in his Book page 4. he saith That I would make simple people believe the Moon was made of green Cheese but he saith the Cheesmonger hath never a taster to make them find it so Again page the 6 he saith meaning my self You are a sweet youth Again page the 9 he calls me Miserable bold fellow In the same page about the latter end of it he saith He perceives the knavery of Hereticks This he applyes to me because of what I answered to his Argument in my Book page 17. Which if in that Answer there is any thing that renders me a knave read and judge Again page 21 he saith When my Nose is Cheese the Cats shall eat it Again page 22 he hath these words Vp Robin the Ram's in the Rye Again page 34 he saith I talke like an Asse If these words savour of the Spirit which is from above judge Again he would faine make us whom he calls Anabaptists odious by telling his Reader that we are divided among our selves as you may see in the beginning of his Answer to my Epistle and that there be none more contradictious then we both to all the godly learned in the world and likewise to one another Some he saith are for the Glasse-house some for Pauls some for Beach-lane some for Arminians some against them Many that frequent one of our places he saith think it abomination to goe to another of them Many of us he saith are turned Ranters and Quakers c. The like you shall find in the 36 page of his Book To all which I Answer That this is as false as the rest to say that NONE are more contradictious then those he calls Anabaptists for first They that are for Infants baptism are more contradictious as for instance Some are Papists some are Lutherans some are Calvinists some Arminians some Arians some Athanasians some for the salvation of all both men and Devils as

Origen was whom he brings as one of the Fathers that held Infants baptism See page 41 of his Bo●k Others against him and for the salvation of none but the Elect. Some have been for Episcopacy some for Presbytery some for Independancy some have been Brownists and have judged it abomination to come to any of his Assemblies some have been for the Cross in baptism others against it some for God fathers and God mothers others of them have judged it a Popish Inovatiou some have been for sports as May-poles and dancing upon the Lords day others have been zealous against it for this cause some of you have cut the ears and slit the noses and branded the cheeks whip't banish't pilloried and imprison'd others though they have been for Infants baptism alike zealous Again how have you Poedobaptists studied to destroy one another and take away the lives of one another witnesse the Gunpowder Treason the late Massacre in Savoy How cruelly did you persecute one another in Queen Mary's dayes And whereas he talks of turning with the Times who hath been more guilty of this then the generality of Poedobaptists who in Queen Mary's dayes were most of them papists in Queen Elizabeth's most were turned Protestants in the Bishops time most were for Bishops and in the Parliament time most were against Bishops and over and besides all these who are for Infants baptism and yet are thus divided Let me add to make full measure Master Rude multitude in all parts of the Christian world who are also very zealous for infants baptism And yet this man dares say None are more contradictious then Anabaptissts Can any man that hath not sinned away his conscience say such a thing without blushing And whereas he saith Many of us are turned to be Quakers and Ranters c. I Answer Who but a man that was minded to tempt his Antagonist to lay open his weaknesse would have opened his mouth so weakly For doe not most of the Quakers at this day consist of such as came from the Church of England and were never of any baptized Church But suppose they were of us as it is like some were yet they left us and their baptism too before they fell into these straines and we have by our dealing with them according to Christs rule left them upon their leaving the truth But now what multitudes are there at every Assize and Session both in City and Country that are condemned justly to the Gallowes some for Murder some for Theft some for Sodomy some for Incest some for Buggery some for Witchcraft some for Treason who all dye at the Gallowes Members related to the Church of England I doe not mention this as an Argument to prove the falsenesse of my Opposites Opinion No I scorn such unmanlike Arguments for there hath been and may be bad men of the best profession but to shew that my Antagonist had mightily forgot the many Errors and Vices of the Poedobaptists while he was blazoning before the world the Errors of the Anabaptists by which he would frighten the simple as though none were more contradious and unholy then we whereas nothing in the world is more false Though I could wish with my soule that we were all of us which he calls Anabaptists more holy that no occasion might be given to the Adversary to speak reproachfully who are apt enough to devise evill against us though we should give them no occasion as Mr. Kellie hath done against me laying to my charge the thing that I never spake But this is no new thing for if they have call'd the Master of the house Belzebub how much more they of his houshold I have now done with his new Arguments by which he confutes my Book and for the rest they are most of them old ones which he sent in a Paper to my house and I have answered them in my Book and he like a man in a Circle brings the Arguments denyed as a Reply to my Answers as you may see by viewing over my Book and his Answer to it How that most of his Reply to me is but a repetition of what I have already Answered I say again therefore if Mr. Kellie will meet me in publick let him appoint time and place and I shall justifie all that is said in my Book either as touching the controversie it self or any other words that have fallen from my pen save as I have said the Printers Errors which I had not time to correct when I sent my Book to him and I am sure his Book is not without many such Errors and therefore he hath shewn his weaknesse to carp at such things as the mis-citing of some Texts and the mis-spelling of some words although his Conscience could not but tell him they proceeded not from error of Judgement I shall now conclude with the words of Christ Mat. 12.36 But I say unto you that for every IDLE WORD men shall speake they shall give an account thereof in the day of Judgement FINIS