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Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
book_n	church_n	faith_n	true_a	3,070	5	4.9666	4	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A34950	A journey into the country being a dialogue between an English Protestant physitian and an English papist : wherein the proper state of the popish controversy is discoursed : with reference (only) to the government of England in church and state, in some answer to Peter Walsh, and pursuant to the directions of a person of honor.	Creamer, Charles, b. 1632?	1675 (1675)	Wing C6867; ESTC R24786	31,884	48

degrees might use a kind of a pious fraud in altering the then Worship from those Objects and substituting in their room the Images of the Trinity Angels Saints and holy Christians So came the vain repetitions of Prayers as the Heathens use 6 Mat. 7. And perhaps Dominus Deus Papae so succeeded Deus Antoninus and Dominus Deus Domitianus and because Dea Pecunia had a Temple in Rome Money has been since as much worshipped there as Juno Moneta and the votivae tabulae hung up in your Churches to the Virgin Mary and Saints c. after Diseases cured were the same as was done among the Pagans viz to Isis in Aegypt and so in Rome like our late Mountebanks Catalogues of Cures which might take by the semblance of their Worship and so by degrees draw them quite off to the true Christian Worship Which design not only took effect but the succeeding Ages proving sottish and unlearned contented themselves with what an Infant Christian Age had done and continued that worship part Heathen part Christian and grew into a belief that the fabulous Mousetraps made to catch Pagans and bring them into the Church were the true Gospel Engines to bring Christians to Heaven So the Inquisition was first invented as a Trap against Moors after a snare for sheep which senseless Dotage has ever since bewitc●ed the foolish Romans and has the face to confront this inquisitive Age just like the man that by frequently telling of a Lye came at last to believe it Phy. Truly Sir your conceit may have something of Truth in it as to the conversion of the Heathens into the Christian Religion by the Catholick Church of Old Rome But that the way of Worship and Devotion continued by them for so many hundred years should deserve your harsh and profane language I understand not for the primitive Church was doubtless as wise as the Church at any time since Phy. That the primitive Catholick Church was as wise as the Church has at any time since been I agree and so was the Primitive Romish Church when St. Paul and St. Peter were there but I know when it failed in its Wisdom and Worship and you your self admit it 's not so wise now by your distinction of Old Rome and New Rome Pray unfold that a little Pap. The Catholick Bishop of Old Rome never pretended to an Universal Monarchy both in Spirituals and Temporals over the whole Earth as the Bishop of New Rome doth and to be Superior to other Sov'raign Princes in civil matters and as to that point I call this New Rome from this New Doctrine which I oppose as strongly as any Protestant Phy. Sir I should have thought that the difference you make between Old Rome and New Rome had been with reference to Physick for that Old Rome was contented with the renowned Aescalapius who cured diseases after the method we now use and New Rome it seems fancies curing after the Hermitical way as you say But pray Sir did your Priest adopt you into the Communion of Old Romes or New Romes Church Or did he tell you the difference between the Doctrines and Worship of one or the other I doubt not Yet you say true in saying it's a Doctrine and a New Doctrine for it was made such by the Council of Lateran and the Council of Lyons and not before So it is that the Pope may dispence with Oathes and in execution of that Article in Queen Elizabeths time such dispensations were intercepted in their journy to the Steady Roman Church Catholicks in Scotland pretending as your Superiors do and by those dispensations the Roman-Catholicks in general were allowed to promise Swear Subscribe and do what else should be required of them so as in mind they continued firm and did use their diligence to advance in secret the Roman Faith The remembrance of which occasion'd King James to provide as he did against Aequivocal professions and pretences of Allegiance Now then how can one be of the Communion of that Church who differs from that Church in point of faith if the Pope or his Councels may be believed to determine Articles of faith if Mr. Cress●y faies true in his Book in which he gives account of his conversion to the Romish Communion viz. That it 's impossible that Catholicks should differ in point of Faith or that Schism should be in their Church which is grounded on singular reason for if he differs in Faith he ceases to be a Catholick and when one is Schismatick he ceases to be of that Church Pap. Well True Roman-Catholicks do hold so and that makes all of your Church Hereticks and Schismaticks and out of our Communion Phy. In good time good Fellow Travailer does it so Why then that very thing if so makes your True English Roman Church Catholicks Hereticks Schismaticks and not of the Communion of the Romish Church to which they have so generally and undistinguishingly profelyted you and indeavour to inveigle others Judge ye now therefore whether these Phanatick Papists mean good faith to you or to their Natural Prince when they pretend Allegiance to their Liege Lord and do deny Supremacy to the Pope in Civil and Ecclesiastical Jurisdiction here and accuse their Church to Err in such pretences and in some matters of Faith to their utter severance from that Church-Communion and Protection and yet at the same time with all Subtilty and wilely Arts are Discipling English Men in the Faith and Communion of the Church of Rome generally without any Restriction or Limitation Pap. It is enough for us of the Laity to believe as the Church believes in matters which concern us as Practise and Worship c. And for the difficult points of Faith and Disputation let out Superiors whose duty it is look to them for we shall answer for no more then we know or are Taught Phy. Know or are taught Will ye suffer your Ears to be stopped and excuse your not hearing not knowing and not being taught and lay all on him who stopped your Ears with your own consent Come Sir consider whether it will add any pleasure to your Travail to go to Hell on another mans back Or if you say to the Devil he brought me hither pray let me go back to whence I came and keep him will Old Nick release you No Therefore get out of your Fetters and duress break forth from your Ignorant Shackles search and try whether your Pope in Church and Pope in Court agree then whether your Confessor agrees with Pope or Court or Church or with the Communion of any one Country Catholick or other and you 'l easily find him to be so far only like unto the Pope as an Heteroclite in Religion either deficient or redundant and not to be brought under any rule Then consider further use due and utmost searches according to your circumstances with the aid of Divine Assistance whether it be not better to be guided by the Pope

Peace of the Nation provided ye by the same Oath declared that the Pope could not dispense therewith And if the Pope himself would also declare so That would certainly conduce to make your true Roman Catholick a true English man and until both be so done I cannot promise security to the peace of the Nation But I pray why are you so in love with the Romish Liturgy and Worship that you vvould have it established here Pap. For these Reasons 1. For that it is for the Honour of the Christian Religion that the same way of Worship might be observed in all Christian Churches 2. For that the vvay of the Romish Worship has been used in all Christian Ages and in all Christian Kingdoms and Places till of late and is still used in some Kingdoms where the Popes Jurisdiction is not allowed Phy. Sir as to your first reason I agree it would be exceedingly for the Honour of the Christian Religion if such Harmony and Agreement could be used in religious Worship as that one God might be worshipped in one way but as that never was so I fear never will be till all things be no more As to your second reason I deny that the Romish Worship as now is used was in any Christian Age or Kingdom used for above five hundred years after Christianity came into the world nor do your true English Roman Catholicks as you call them now agree with any other Christian Kingdom Church or Place vvhatsoever if they belie not themselves Pap. Well it has been so long used and with so general a Consent and Approbation as may well Intitle it to a preference to this new upstart way of Worship which this Nation has had not above 100 Years Phy. As to the Argument of Antiquity and long Usage It may be good in cases of Politick and Civil rights and Interests and become determinative provided it be not against positive Laws natural Equity or reason And in these Exterior parts of Religion it can obtain no more For a way of worship repugnant to the positive Law declared in Scripture or repugnant to the positive Law of the supreme Magistrate ought not to be exercised by any Subject living under the protection of that Supream Magistrate without sin and breach of Allegiance And Sir I must tell you further that this Notion of Antiquity though of great veneration in it self yet has been often used to the disadvantage of truth and made a Stale to dangerous mistakes and corrupt purposes You know who was reproved for not walking after the Traditions of the Elders 7. Mat. 5. and who were so zealous for the Traditions of the Fathers 1. Gal. 14. Against whose Arguments of Antiquity it was only opposed search the Scriptures 5. John 39. and you may see 17 Acts 19. who scoff'd at the new Doctrine as you at this new upstart way of Worship though indeed elder to yours So the Antiquity barely as such is no Argument for one or against another or that the more ancient as such is to be preferred before the late but again I say search and try vvhich is the best and adhere to that for the Improvement of your own not another mans Talent must enrich you Pap. This despising of things antient and entertaining of things Novel in Religion has not only made a lamentable breach in the Catholick Church but this Nation more particularly and dolefully has felt the direful Effects thereof in your Divisions and Subdivisions in the matters of Religion and the vvayes of religious Worship witness all your Sects and Dissentions that have lately over-run the Nation Phy. As this Objection is of some standing so it 's nere the better nor stronger for it for new Answers have fully confounded it as vvell to the reason of the thing as to a returning it vvith abundant additions on the Romish Church vvherein are many more Divisions Sects and Dissention then in ours as Doctor Stillingfleet has learnedly and faithfully made out in one Chapter of his Book against Idolatry c. Pap. Pray then tell me a reason why may not I or another so perswaded with good conscience use the Romish Way of Worship and Devotion and not the English Way of Worship if I allow the Kings Supremacy and disallow the Popes Phy. Laying aside the reasons urged against the irrationality foppish feigned Superstition Incredibility and Idolatry at large discoursed by Dr. Stillingfleet in his Book against their Idolatry and Fanaticism and it's Vindication a Book called Reflections on the Romish Devotions another the Triumphs of Rome over despised Protestancy two others viz. the Funeral of the Mass and the depth and mystery of the Mass vvhich I vvish you to read and others I 'le tell you another reason viz. because the King has commanded the contrary Pap. Why can the Kings Command bind me in my vvay of Worship is it not sufficient if I disown the Pope Phy. You disown the Pope only by half yet such disowning may be well done and if we could be assured it was well done might give some Security to the King against Forreign Civil Pretenders but still you give him no Security for perfect Obedience as a true English man and against breach of the peace of the Church if you conform not to his lawful Commands in his waies of Worship Pap. Pray how come the King to have power to impose a way of Worship according to his own Will Phy. The King has as much Power to impose a way of Worship here as the Pope has in his Dominions but neither has Power to impose a way of Worship absolutely according to his own VVill. Pap. What has the King Power to impose a Way of Worship and yet not according to his own Will pray according to whose Will does he so impose c. Phy. He imposes it according to the Will of God Pap. How can that be for the Protestants say that no Way of Worship is expresly appointed in Scripture and they allow no Revelations to holy men to be credited Phy. This is the rule they go by whatsoever in Religion is not of the essence of Christian Religion intituled by our Saviour himself or declared or advised to be practised by the Apostles is lawfully looked on as Religion of State in that it may be altered or improved or abolished by the Soveraign power for the better Advancement of those ends which are essential the same power may remove Errors Inconveniences Scandals and abuses therein and of that Nature is the way of Worship and so within the Power of the King The King has no Power over the kernel but over the shell he has and by his Soveraign power that is preserved inviolate Pap. Well but if he has such power why could he not keep the Old shell but make a New one Phy. Our King has not made a New shell to keep the Old kernel in but he has amended the Old shell for the better preservation of the Old kernel