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A12919 A discourse wherin is debated whether it be expedient that the scripture should be in English for al men to reade that wyll Fyrst reade this booke with an indifferent eye, and then approue or condempne, as God shall moue your heart. Standish, John, 1507?-1570. 1554 (1554) STC 23207; ESTC S117827 41,170 164

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techers and some learners But these quite turne vp side doune the right ordre of Christes churche the one part medling with the others office the more blinde the more bolde the more ignoraunte the more busie the lesse witte the more inquisitiue the more leude the more bablynge of great doubtes and high questions of Christes Sacramentes and of his priuye and vnsearcheable mysteries and that oft most presumptuously with out al reuerence or godly feare bothe at drinkinge and eating as though it were but a Canterburye tale and that when the ale is in the witte is oute Then flowe furthe manye errours and heresies Then are the simple catched in the snare of the Deuyll without hope of recouerie And all this alas and woe is me haue we ful experince of in these yeares paste But nowe thankes bee to Iesus Christe that by his onelye might and power when it was paste all mans helpe hath deliuered vs from the Deuill and the bondage of Pharao and brought vs furthe of darknes of scismes and heresies into the cleare light of the trueth againe by sendynge vs oure blessed queene Mary euen another Helena to bringe againe the holye crosse whiche euen from her infancie hath sticked faste and cleued surelye vnto the sounde piller of trueth the catholyke churche whiche wyll neuer faile she hathe euer defended it to the vttermost of her power Lorde graunt her longe life to continue the same and graunte her ioyfull deliueraunce of her moste comfortable burden When God of his great mercye sente her to be our liege ladye our quene and gouernesse then we receyued of him as great a benefit as euer did the Israelites of Hester or Iudith O lord before her comminge the churche was troden downe and pitifully spitfully I might saye spoyled by might by tiranny heresy the great Deuyl was let lose al was quite plucked vp by the rotes vnder the colour and false name of vice superstition and ydolatrie they vtterlye destroyed all deuotion all vertue and godlye religion The feareful Serpent Python that greuous dragon with manye heades mencioned of in the Apocalips did still persecute the woman in the sun That is to say our mother the church deuourynge her children here in this realme incessauntly tyll Gods merciful pitie gods pitiful mercy did electe send this blessed woman Mary our Queene in stede of Michael tharchāgel to ouerthrow him to restore his temple and furnishe agayne his house which now of late within these .xxii. yeares was here in Englande worse spoiled and defaced then euer was his temple at Hierusalem eyther by the Chaldies or by Antiochus Marye therefore oure noble queene God him selfe dyd appointe euen as he did Iosue Esdras or Iudas Machabeus to bringe vs into the ryghte waye agayne towarde the land of promise for we were farre strayed amisse throughe synne auarice ▪ and lecherye and to reedifie his temple through her wisedome she beynge the perfit mirrour and pearle of all christian queenes and princes Yea and if the olde prouerbe be true as it is most true in dede whiche sayeth euery prince is to his realme subiectes ether a very precious Iuell or els a deadlye poyson because suche as the prince is suche will the people laboure to be whether it be in vertue or vice What a precious Iewell then haue we receyued of God in receyuynge her noble estate to be our ladye queene an example of all vertue deuotion and prayer a spectacle to al realmes And suerly the common voice is that her grace is not onelye moste noble moste vertuous moste wittie and moste studious but also moste excellent in learning farre passinge eyther the noble Romaines Cornelia Hortensia or the godly learned womē of whom S. Hierome writeth Eustochium Paula and Blesilla Therefore if queene Saba iustlye sayde it was a signe that God loued his people ● Barall 9. for sendynge them Salomon to raygne ouer thē maye not we as iustly now say the same to Englande And yf the wisdome pietie and vertue of Onias was sayde to be the cause of the prosperous estate of their citie 2. Mach. 2. shall not we likewise saye to this our realme Besides this Roma 12. if gouernours be highlye praysed in scripture whiche rule with great solicitude and carefulnesse what shal we then saye to her whiche for all our wealthes bothe bodilye and ghostly is styll moste vigilant and carefull And finallye nowe to conclude if amonge the heathen the noble Princes haue euer highlye been extolled for sundrie vertues howe highly is she worthie thē to be extolled for so plentifull and so manifolde kindes of vertue Whiche doeth not onely excell in godlynesse in deuotion in prayer in fastyng in abstinence in humilitie in charitie in mercie pitie and compassion in discretion in knowledge in wisedom in excellencie of witte beinge of no small studie in godly literature but beinge of exquisite learnynge of profounde knowledge of exacte iudgement beside notable diligence and great painfulnesse euen frō her childhode as for her pollicie and affayres of the realme in settinge furthe the wealthe and commoditie thereof and in defendinge vs from outwarde and inwarde enemies I speake not of but also whiche doeth farre passe all other as it is euidently seen in her most godly innated zeale that she beareth styll moste earnest towarde the vnitie and faythe of Christes trew religion and towarde the cheife head therof vnder Christ whiche by the space of these xx yeres euen tyll she came was banished this realme throughe scisme and heresie through couetousnes and letcherye Lorde be mercifull vnto vs. Wherfore if in the Gospel of S Luke many holy womē for godlines deuotiō and zeale toward Christes church be highly praysed by name likewise in thactes of the Apostles and in the laste Chapter to the Romans yea and if S. Hierom wrote a whole booke of suche holye and vertuous women what lesse prayse is her highnes worthye now to haue being inferiour to none of the all being euin now amonge al princeli womē in the worlde a verye Phenix But I wyll let this passe I wyl say no more but only this that the doughter maye welbe knowen by the Mother and that as we fell from all goodnes at the moste vniust fall of her Mother that most noble Lady Queene Catheryn So doe we nowe rise agayne at the moste iuste risinge agayne of her noble estate to the Crowne of Englande So that in her moste godlye person is shut vp all our worldly ioye comfort and hope whom with her most noble vertuous husbande Philip our Lord King not much inferiour to her highnes in grace vertue and godlynes as credible menne reporte Iesu longe prosper in honoure grace and vertue daylye increasinge But nowe to the processe intendid The fyrst Chaptre Scripture is very harde to be vnderstande IF nothing els shuld moue the Scripture to be takē furthe of the irreuerente and lewde handling of the multitude
were then writen in the hertes of the faythfull but sone after when through synne it begāne to wax colde then was writing for the simples sake to preserue theyr faith and yet that not withstanding the authorite of the church the fundacion of all treuth of as greate strenght as it was before the new testament was all writen For were there not heretikes I pray you which denyed diuerse bokes of scripture as Martion and other wherewith were they subdued euyn with verities not written Marke wel that Moyses saith Origene greatly passed not for the letter writen when he dyd breake the tables nor Christe when he sayd to the Iewes the scripture shal be takē from you spake of the letter whiche they kepe styl but of the sense Wherfore awaye with the englishe damnable translation and lette them lerne the mysteries of god reuerently by hert and lerne to geue as muche credit to that whiche is not expressed as to that which is expressed in scripture Knowing that in .iij. pointes thautoritie of the churche is aboue the aucthoritie of scripture One is in fortifieng verities not writen to be necessary to saluation as plainly appeareth by manye verities in this probation another is for that the church receyued the gospels of Luke and Marke whiche Marke neuer saw Christ and did reiecte the Gospels made by his high Apostels Thomas and Bartilmew as for the gospell of Nicodeme which yet was familiar with Christe I speake not of The thyrde is bycause the church in all doubtfull causes and matters of controuersie must euer be iudge of the trew sense of scripture For she alone hath euer the true sēse of scripture So that by her authoritie onely Ireneus did conuince Valētin Tertulian Mertion Origen Celsum Ciprian Nouatum Nicen councell the Arians Hierom Iouinian and Augustine the Donatistes with many other And no meruell for so muche Christ him selfe made his Churche the Iudge ouer scripture when he sent the Apostels disciples to preache sayeng He that heareth you heareth me And also when he sayd Who so would not heare the Churche should be reputed and taken as an Ethnycke or Publican Seyng then that God thus appointed who wyll refuse to seke the trew vnderstandynge of scripture at that iudge whome Christ appointed hymselfe Surely none but selfe willie heretykes And here nowe to speake a worde or two of the Saboth and of mixtinge water wyth wine in the chalice whereof I should haue spoken before when I recited manye verities not written and firste concernynge the Saboth Albeit the matter of the precept be morall and the daye legal so that it myght be chaunged yet the church would neuer haue done that without speciall ordinaunce of God beinge made iudge in the cause And likewise it is to be sayde of mixtinge water wyth wyne in the chalice The Ghospel speaketh of wine onely tourned into Christes precious bloude who durste then mixte water therewith But the church is so assured of Goddes pleasure therein without any scripture that they dare not only put in water but also dare not leaue it oute And wherby knewe the church these thinges but by Christe and hys holy Apostles whiche taught in their time And so in these thinges and manye other moe went it furth from age to age continuinge in the churche tyll thys daye begonne by Christ in the beginninge withoute mention made in scripture written The .iiij. probation Some desire to haue it in the englyshe tongue only for knowledge and this is but curiositie some only for vain praise this is but vain glory to be sene learned Some only to taunt poore priestes and other therewith and this is but deuelishnes so that for none of these it ought to be in english Nowe where some would desyre it in english only to be edified thereby for this desyre only is to be embrased treuth is they may be sufficiently edified by sermons and holsom doctrine of the scriptures expounded vnto theym by such as haue the key of knoweledge as ofte as they shall well requyre and herewith a godly minde wyl be content knowing that the contrary is against the catholyke church So that euin the good and catholyke people which would doe good and noo hurt with the Bible in english yet may not be permitted to kepe it in the english tōge partly lest the infirme and weake thereby should be offended eyther in misiudging or in taking example yf occasion serue to get the same libertie to theyr destruction and partly that no occasion be geuen therby to obstinate heretikes to murmur that they haue it not in english them selues as wel as thother And this answer I geue vnto theym which seme of a godlye zeale to say scripture ought to be in english for the vse and commoditie of such people as with an earnest zeale and deuoute study doo hunger and thurste the simple and plaine knowlege of Gods worde not for contentious bablyng but for innocent lyuyng not to be curious searchers of the high mysteries but to be faithfull doers of Gods byddyngs not to be troublous talkers of the Bible but sincere folowers of Gods preceptes therin conteyned not to be vnreuerent reasoners in holy scripture for vain settīg out of their painted sheathe but to be hūble and louly workers of Gods glory not to be curious disputers in the Gospell for the mayntenaūce of theyr inordinate lustes and carnall libertye but to be vpryghte walkers in holye conuersation of lyfe in the rule of the gospell prescribed The fyfte probation Hauyng the scripture in englysh they presume to know all the scriptures perfitly and that to theyr condemnation contrary to s Hieroms rule which is this Si non succedat idoneus interpres potius nescire oportet quam cum periculo discere c. Yf there be not one present that is mete to expounde the scriptures it is better not to know the mysteries then with ieoperdie and peryll to searche theim c. The syxte probacion The most parte of the people be euyll but Christe wolde none such should haue the handlyng of his secrettes as appereth by that he willeth precious stones not to be caste amongest swine nor holye breade to dogges Therfore scripture ought not so to be lefte that all without anye discretion or difference may hādle it at their pleasures whiche muste nedes be if it be sette at libertie in the vulgar tongue in euerye churche The seuenth probation The moste part of the people be ignoraunt not hable to discerne betwene the letter and the mystery but none suche be mete iudges in suche high matters yet none wylbe more bolde then blynde bayarde therefore the scripture must be kepte furth of the handling of all suche which cānot be if it cōtinue in English as it doth for all men to dispute of it that wyll The eight probation Is not the scripture ful of figures and tropes Shal it then be so lefte that euery one shal be iudge therof The
expositions together Hereby plainly appereth that with the Englishe Bible alone though it were trewly translated man coulde not be brought fully into the trew meaninge of Gods word But we se and wel perceyue that thousandes haue ben brought from the trew meaning of goddes worde throughe the Englishe Byble therefore awaye with it It hathe kilde to many soules alredy GOD best knoweth whom I beseche sende a spedy redresse The .vi. Chapitre Scripture ought not to be in the vulgare tonge that al men without restraynt may rede it Fyfty probations of this assertion The first Probation I Neuer heard nor red that GOD would hys people to haue the booke amonge themselues to towse or type at their pleasure God gaue the booke to Hieremye and bad him rede to the people that whyche he had written Hier. xxxvi Esay viii GOD bad Esai take the Booke to him for the same purpose Yea and it was not without great mysterie that God bad Ezechiell fyrst eate the Booke Ezech. iii. and then rede it in thaudience of all the people Dan. xiii Agayne Moyses gaue the booke to the Leuites to kepe and rede to the people iiii Re. xvii and in kinge Iosaphattes time the Priestes and Leuites did read the booke and teche the people like as did also afterwarde Elchias the Priest Sapha the Scribe Esdras did sundry times take the booke read it to the people iiii Re. xxii ii pa. xxxliii ii Esd viii and .xiii. iii. Esd ix Bar. i. Hier. xxxvi they diligentlye hearinge him And Baruch the Prophet redde the booke to the kinge and to the people they geuing eare vnto him Luc. iiii Yea Christ our maister toke the booke of the Prophet for this cause and red and expounded to the people his doing herein was for our example Wherby we may easely lerne that all people should not haue the Scryptures in their owne handlinges at their pleasure as they haue had these dosen yeres past to their vtter spirituall destruction The seconde Probation God sente Ionas to preache to Niniue Ion. i. iii. he sente not a booke writtē to euery one of the Niniuites to reade them selues God sayde by Hieremy speakynge of the time of the Gospell that the time should come he wold write his law in thartes of his people Hier. xxxi So that the writtinge of tholde law in tables of stone signifieng the stony hartes of the Iewes is not to be reioysed at but rather to be lamēted to be ashamed of knowinge that Scrypture was only wryttē for sinne els neuer had ben written but only in the heart of mā It was three thousande yeres after the creation of the world before the olde lawe was written and yet then only writtē for wickednes and synne It was also a longe space after the ascension before the new Testament was written some parte at one tyme and some at an other and yet euery parte only writen for synne and scisme so that the simple ignoraunt people this wel considered ought not to be so desyrous of the scripture written as they ought to be desyrous to heare the trew meanyng of scripture for that onlye is the scripture and the gospell of Christe For sayth S. Hierom. Euangelium non est in scriptura sed in sensu non in superficie sed in medulla non in sermonum folijs sed in radice rationis The gospell is not in the wryting but in the sense it is not in the outwarde apperaunce but in the inward meanyng it is not in the leaues of the bokes but in the ghostly vnderstandynge Christ neuer bad goe write his gospell or holye worde but badde preache it Then yf thou hast an humble heart and canst but reade the englysh Bible thinke thou must haue it taught thee and not to take it thy selfe Saye as the Eunuche dyd to Philip Actes viii howe can I vnderstand it except I be taught Christe did preache ofte to the people Math. iiii v but he wrote not to them at all and he sent his disciples and bad them preache to the people his ghospel Mark .i. Luc. viii Math. x. and .xxviii. Mar. vi iii.xvi Luc. ix xxiiii Luc. xii and then they went and preached but he bad them not write at all That whiche ye haue hearde sayeth he in secrete places shal be preached on the toppes of the houses he said not it shal be written in youre churches as it hathe been Iewishly vsed on late here in Englande nor written in Bybles to be read of euerye one in hys mother tongue and set vp for that purpose in euerye churche Peter sayeth the holye fathers did speake Gods worde by the holye ghost ii Pet. i. he telleth nothinge of writyng it Math. xxvi Christe where he spake of the memorial of Mary Magdalene saide whersoeuer this ghospell shal be preached c. He sayde not whersoeuer this Ghospell shal be written Mark .i. Luc. iii. Iohn Baptist preached muche but where did he either write or commaund to be written Mat. xxiiii Christe ofte promised that hys Ghospell shoulde bee preached in all the worlde Mar. vi Luc. x. And therfore sent fourth bothe the apostles and the lxxij disciples and all godly preachers euer since so that none canne preache except he be sent Rom. x. But in no place we rede that he bad go write his ghospel I can not then but meruayl that men to their owne confusion are so desierous to haue the scripture in their mother tongue O howe oft speaketh Paule and S. Peter also of preachinge the ghospell Rom. x.xv. In the Epistle to the Romaynes in either Epistle to the Corinthians i. cor ix xv ii Cor. i. xi Gal. i. iiii.v Ephes ii Phillip i. Col. i. i. Thes ii i. Tim. ii iii ii Tim. iiii Act. ix xv.xx i. Pet. iii iiii Act. vix xv Luc. x. Math. vii Luc. xi Actes x. Actes xix to the Galathians to the Ephesians to the Philippians to the Colossiās to the Thessalonians to Tymothe and in Thartes And S. Peter also bothe in his first Epistle also thrise in thactes Besides this Martha is praysed in the Ghospell for hearyng Christes worde taughte and Christ in his sermō in the moūt saieth he that heareth my word and doeth it not he that readeth it or writeth it shal be like ned to the wise man buildynge vpon the rocke c. And agayne blessed be they that heare gods worde and kepe it and as it is in the Actes when Peter preached the holy ghost fell vpon al that heard him yea and they of Asia were praised for hearynge Gods word But wher I pray you haue you of writynge it for all men to read Howe be it the onelye drifte as I thynke of all suche as obstinatly sticke to haue the scripture in writing in the vulgar tongue is therby to be Iudges of the sense of scripture them selues contrarye to
nedefull God woulde haue sent it to the Eunuche to Saule and to Cornelius in the viij ix and x. of thactes but there ye reade that god sent them teachers Philip Anany and Peter and not the scripture whiche hadde been but in vayne as appeareth by the Eunuches sayinge howe shall I vnderstāde scripture by reading except I be taught Whervpon S. Hierom sayth Ego vt de me loquar nec sāctior sū hoc eunucho nec studiosior qu●cū librum teneret c. ignorabat tamen eum quē in libro nesciens venerabatur O howe manye this daye muche more ignorāt then Theunuche will take in hande onelye with their English boke to open mysteries bothe to theyr owne destruction and others The xxiij probation Our men wyll nothinge but theyr english booke but the holy man Ireneus which dyd see S Iohans disciple or as some affirme whiche was scholer to S. Iohans disciple named Policarpus doeth testifie that we must folowe the order of the traditions whiche the forefathers dyd leaue vnto them vnto whō they committed the cure of Christes people vnto whiche ordinaunces the very heathens sayth he comming to Christes stocke did obey hauing their belefe written by the sprit of God in theyr hartes and not writen with ynke in velom or perchement What shal we say then to theym whiche yet bewaile their Iewish scriptures plucked besyde the postes and walles onlye desyre theyr scripture with inke and paper in the booke As for saluation only wryten in the hart by the holy spirit it should seme they passe not of The .xxiiij. probation The heathen Philosopher would not youth to be the medlers with moral philosophy bycause they were vnapte therunto eyther to be Iudges therof or to take any profyt thereby and he ment not only youthe in yeares but also in maners a childe saieth Esaie of an hund●eth yeares old shal dye Esay lxv What then shal we saie shal we admit vnto the hādling of our heauēly philosophy whome the heathen thought vnmete vnworthy to handle theyr lerning whiche was but prophane woulde not the Iewes permitte all ages to the reading of all the bokes in the olde testament and shall we christen men doe it wyll we be worse then the Iewes Yea worse thē the prophane ethnickes and more out of order O Lord be mercifull vnto vs. The .xxv. probation It was neuer admitted though somtymes permitted in any place of christenedome scripture to continew in the vulgar tongue but only in tyme of scisme or heresy shall it nowe then be suffred to continew any longer in this realme so many mischefes yssewyng therout as haue done daily increasing these many yeares and would do styl more and more The .xxvi. probation When it is in the vulgar tonge the comen sorte play with Gods worde as the deuyll did disputing with Christ brought Gods worde but to a wronge purpose Christ said man lyueth not only by breade but by euery worde that procedeth fourth of Gods mouth The deuill spake Gods worde but it was not fourth of Gods mouth so did the olde Prophete of Bethell speake Gods word iii. Reg. xiii but not out of Gods mouthe Likewise did the CCCC iii. Re. xxii Prophetes whiche deceyued Achab. All sorcerers witches and cōiurers vse gods worde but not oute of Gods mouthe so haue all heretikes in tymes past and doe at this day But when is it Gods worde furthe of Gods mouthe Howe shall we know or proue that Euer when it is spoken according to the consent faythe of the catholike churche For very scripture doeth shewe that the trew vnderstandynge of Goddes worde and that is furth of gods mouth spoken is euer to be soughte in the catholike churche for the catholike church alone hath euer the true sense of scripture whiche is for that cause called of S. Paule the pyller and foundation of all trueth i. Timo. iii. wherein also for this cause God ordeyned some apostles some Euangelistes Ephes iiii some Prophetes and teachers styl to cōtinue lest we shoulde be ouerthrowē with blastes of errour And therfore Ireneus wttnesseth Iren. li. 3. cap. 3. and longe after him S. Augustine that the trewe meaning of scripture is to be hadde by the triall of the succession of the holye bishoppes and fathers since Peters time in the see of Rome which thinge caused S. Augustine to say I would not beleue the ghospell if thautoritie of the churche caused me not so to doe Aug. in epist fund So that we must beleue that hath been receyued of all men at all times and in all places of christendome and we muste leane to thantiquitie to the generalitie and consent of the fathers and the true sense and meanyng of scripture must euer be proued and tried oute herby How be it to none of this our new men wil agre because it whollye maketh agaynst thē but thei euer do studie to bring al into question to deny al general councels all ordinaunces decrees canons and expositours vpō scripture And much of this disorder thenglish Bible doeth cause wherfore me thinke it maye not well be permitted to continue The xxvij probation Can it be chosen but so long as all people haue the Byble in English at their pleasure there shal euer be some amonge them readie ministers of the deuyl to dispute reason and teache the residue to the vtter destruction of all deuotion and good order And yet amonge them selues they shall saye the cause is they can not be taught truelye of the preachers abrode And hereby heresye shal be sowed plentifullye and Gods worde pitifullye abused vnder a colourable defense therof Thei shal say o the Ghospell ought not to be kept from christen men and that is verye trueth it oughte to bee taught them and preached vnto them but not to teache them selues for wrastynge it amisse The xxviij probation It is the occasion of manye heresies to haue the scripture in the vulgar tongue Howe be it heresie dyd neuer spring furth of scripture but only of the peruerse vnderstandynge of scripture sayeth Hilarius Hilar. lib. ij de triuitate And yet then seing the rude ignorāt sort be euer prone peruersly to wrast the scriptures we muste thinke that to haue scripture in english is to minister occasiō to the cōmon sorte to fall into errours· that it so shall doe appeareth by that they be not hable to weye nor beare the mysteries nor to vnderstand the tropes and allegories whiche the greate learned men ofte are scant hable well to digeste howe much lesse the cobler carter or coryer The xxix probation Hilarius vpon In corde meo abscondi eloquia tua Sheweth that the high mysteries oughte not to be publyshed abrode amonge all people It is good saieth he to hyde the kynges priuetie and secret And s Paul saith he was aferd to fede the people with any other but with mylke Math. xiii Christ in the gospell telleth of