Selected quad for the lemma: book_n
Text snippets containing the quad
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ID |
Title |
Author |
Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) |
STC |
Words |
Pages |
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A19149
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A second manuduction, for Mr. Robinson. Or a confirmation of the former, in an ansvver to his manumission
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Ames, William, 1576-1633.
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1615
(1615)
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STC 556; ESTC S115272
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26,714
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36
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not_o unto_o those_o exercise_n of_o religion_n where_o none_o be_v present_v but_o of_o their_o voluntary_a mind_n he_o shall_v have_v give_v a_o mad_a answer_n that_o be_v desire_v to_o hear_v mr._n perkins_n shall_v have_v deny_v upon_o this_o ground_n because_o that_o parish_n church_n where_o he_o only_o teach_v for_o a_o member_n of_o it_o a_o long_a time_n he_o be_v not_o be_v gather_v by_o constreynt_a when_o none_o come_v to_o hear_v he_o by_o any_o constreynt_a &_o of_o that_o parish_n few_o or_o none_o to_o speak_v of_o be_v present_a by_o all_o which_o we_o see_v that_o this_o argument_n though_o frame_v thus_o as_o mr._n r._n will_v have_v it_o conclude_v nothing_o against_o all_o public_a communion_n in_o england_n 3._o for_o that_o which_o i_o by_o the_o way_n only_o remember_v that_o he_o himself_o be_v once_o at_o a_o sermon_n in_o that_o assembly_n since_o he_o profess_a separation_n as_o he_o have_v be_v at_o many_o of_o mr._n perkinses_n before_o he_o answer_v it_o be_v neither_o pertinent_o nor_o true_o object_v because_o at_o that_o time_n he_o dispute_v only_o for_o separation_n but_o have_v not_o profess_v it_o practise_a it_o in_o deed_n he_o have_v not_o in_o that_o settle_a manner_n which_o since_o he_o have_v but_o by_o report_n of_o some_o that_o have_v speech_n with_o he_o he_o declare_v then_o to_o one_o of_o his_o acquaintance_n that_o he_o have_v be_v amongst_o some_o company_n of_o the_o separation_n before_o his_o come_n to_o camb_n &_o exercise_v amongst_o they_o have_v renounce_v his_o former_a ministry_n that_o be_v enough_o for_o the_o truth_n of_o what_o be_v affirm_v the_o pertinencie_n of_o it_o consist_v in_o this_o that_o he_o have_v so_o often_o &_o so_o late_o be_v at_o that_o exercise_n of_o mr._n perkins_n &_o his_o successor_n can_v but_o know_v that_o there_o be_v no_o constreynt_a nor_o service-book_n that_o have_v any_o place_n or_o part_n in_o it_o it_o be_v pertinent_a also_o by_o the_o way_n to_o know_v whether_o mr._n r._n do_v repent_v he_o for_o hear_v mr._n perkins_n or_o whether_o he_o do_v reckon_v it_o among_o his_o offence_n against_o god_n the_o historical_a narration_n which_o upon_o this_o occasion_n he_o interpose_v i_o pass_v over_o as_o remote_a from_o the_o argument_n in_o hand_n 4._o he_o acknowledge_v that_o for_o the_o very_a use_n of_o a_o set_a form_n of_o prayer_n he_o will_v not_o separate_v from_o a_o true_a church_n in_o thing_n lawful_a but_o many_o difference_n he_o find_v betwixt_o the_o set_a form_n of_o other_o church_n &_o that_o which_o be_v use_v in_o england_n even_o so_o many_o as_o make_v the_o service-book_n a_o hateful_a idol_n advance_v above_o all_o that_o be_v call_v god_n the_o temper_n of_o which_o speech_n i_o leave_v to_o be_v consider_v of_o himself_o &_o other_o my_o argument_n be_v grant_v viz_o that_o a_o set_a form_n of_o prayer_n in_o itself_o be_v not_o a_o sufficient_a cause_n of_o denijng_v all_o public_a communion_n let_v the_o manner_n of_o impose_v be_v as_o hateful_a as_o mr._n r._n will_v make_v it_o yet_o in_o those_o action_n where_o it_o be_v not_o use_v nor_o yet_o impose_v as_o in_o that_o exercise_n of_o mr._n perkins_n with_o other_o like_a that_o infection_n be_v convey_v by_o it_o i_o can_v possible_o conceyve_v i_o desire_v a_o friend_n to_o hear_v with_o i_o a_o sermon_n preach_v by_o a_o godly_a man_n where_o he_o shall_v neither_o see_v nor_o hear_v any_o thing_n else_o beside_o the_o sermon_n &_o such_o prayer_n as_o belong_v unto_o it_o will_v any_o sense_n allow_v he_o to_o answer_v no_o i_o dare_v not_o there_o be_v a_o idol_n impose_v under_o the_o name_n of_o service_n sure_o i_o shall_v think_v he_o want_v sleep_v that_o will_v speak_v so_o idle_o 5._o for_o the_o state_n of_o geneva_n who_o law_n do_v require_v church_n communion_n of_o all_o the_o inhabitant_n of_o that_o city_n he_o seek_v as_o before_o to_o find_v some_o difference_n betwixt_o that_o &_o england_n but_o grant_v in_o the_o mean_a time_n that_o if_o a_o state_n for_o politic_a respect_n expel_v out_o of_o their_o territory_n such_o as_o will_v not_o ioign_v in_o church_n communion_n that_o kind_n of_o compulsion_n do_v not_o make_v their_o communion_n unlawful_a mere_a injunction_n of_o law_n therefore_o though_o it_o be_v general_a for_o all_o do_v not_o make_v all_o public_a communion_n unlawful_a especial_o in_o such_o action_n where_o it_o be_v manifest_a that_o none_o do_v communicate_v but_o voluntary_o this_o be_v all_o that_o i_o maintain_v which_o be_v grant_v by_o mr._n r._n with_o some_o other_o of_o my_o demand_n and_o the_o rest_n oppose_v with_o so_o slender_a defence_n as_o we_o have_v now_o show_v i_o do_v not_o find_v fault_n with_o the_o title_n of_o his_o writing_n as_o he_o do_v with_o i_o but_o acknowledge_v it_o to_o be_v a_o true_a manumission_n that_o be_v a_o set_v free_a or_o a_o free_a grant_n of_o what_o be_v by_o i_o propound_v for_o other_o usual_a meaning_n of_o that_o title_n i_o do_v not_o understand_v now_o though_o i_o have_v not_o undertake_v to_o give_v answer_n unto_o every_o thing_n that_o mr._n r._n may_v object_v against_o the_o state_n of_o our_o assembly_n 12._o and_o therefore_o may_v without_o prejudice_n neglect_v that_o addition_n which_o he_o have_v annex_v unto_o his_o answer_n yet_o lest_o any_o shall_v think_v some_o unanswerable_a reason_n to_o be_v contain_v in_o the_o same_o maintenance_n of_o his_o separation_n i_o will_v brief_o &_o plain_o declare_v what_o i_o think_v in_o all_o the_o particular_n of_o it_o he_o undertake_v to_o set_v down_o what_o thing_n be_v of_o absolute_a necessity_n for_o a_o true_a ordinary_a church-officer_n &_o minister_n of_o christ_n reduce_v the_o same_o unto_o 4_o head_n a_o true_a visible_a church_n a_o fit_a person_n a_o lawful_a office_n and_o a_o right_a call_n about_o the_o foremost_a of_o these_o he_o move_v 4_o quaestion_n 1._o how_o the_o minister_n of_o england_n can_v be_v true_a minister_n not_o be_v make_v &_o ordain_v such_o in_o &_o to_o any_o particular_a church_n i_o ans_fw-fr make_v &_o ordain_v be_v two_o thing_n he_o may_v be_v a_o minister_n that_o be_v not_o formal_o ordain_v in_o the_o church_n there_o be_v a_o make_n of_o minister_n in_o &_o to_o particular_a church_n in_o england_n when_o they_o be_v call_v in_o &_o to_o such_o church_n 2._o how_o many_o &_o which_o of_o the_o parish_n church_n consist_v of_o a_o people_n separate_v out_o from_o the_o world_n how_o many_o such_o there_o be_v in_o england_n i_o can_v tell_v because_o i_o have_v no_o sufficient_a intelligence_n whereby_o to_o inform_v myself_o therein_o but_o divers_a assembly_n there_o be_v well_o know_v to_o such_o as_o be_v not_o wilful_o ignorant_a which_o be_v so_o far_o at_o the_o least_o separate_v from_o the_o world_n as_o be_v of_o absolute_a necessity_n to_o the_o be_v of_o a_o true_a church_n perfect_a separation_n be_v not_o of_o that_o nature_n as_o for_o the_o mixture_n in_o diocese_n etc._n etc._n it_o be_v as_o former_o have_v be_v show_v a_o civil_a combination_n 3._o how_o the_o true_a form_n of_o a_o church_n can_v be_v find_v in_o any_o parish_n church_n of_o the_o land_n which_o be_v not_o any_o particular_a act_n disposition_n or_o relation_n but_o as_o he_o conceave_v a_o public_a orderly_a covenant_n &_o union_n of_o a_o particular_a assembly_n by_o which_o it_o have_v in_o itself_o entire_a right_n to_o christ_n &_o to_o all_o the_o mean_n of_o enjoy_v he_o wherein_o 1._o it_o be_v to_o be_v observe_v that_o it_o be_v not_o a_o very_a easy_a thing_n to_o discern_v of_o this_o form_n of_o a_o church_n for_o this_o man_n that_o have_v labour_v so_o long_o about_o the_o search_n of_o it_o &_o that_o with_o more_o ability_n &_o help_n then_o ordinary_a christian_n can_v atteyne_v unto_o yet_o speak_v something_o doubtful_o or_o fearful_o concern_v the_o matter_n as_o i_o conceive_v it_o can_v be_v no_o other_o than_o this_o i_o think_v then_o that_o charity_n shall_v teach_v he_o &_o other_o more_o spare_o to_o censure_n &_o condemn_v those_o assembly_n which_o do_v not_o practice_v this_o form_n so_o orderly_o as_o they_o shall_v see_v difficulty_n of_o discern_v a_o duty_n do_v always_o lessen_v the_o fault_n of_o he_o that_o omit_v it_o 2._o that_o which_o now_o he_o give_v for_o his_o opinion_n concern_v this_o form_n have_v a_o manifest_a contradiction_n in_o it_o &_o therefore_o can_v be_v right_o he_o say_v that_o this_o form_n be_v no_o particular_a act_n disposition_n or_o relation_n &_o yet_o it_o be_v a_o public_a orderly_a covenant_n &_o union_n a_o covenant_n &_o union_n must_v be_v take_v either_o for_o the_o act_n of_o covenant_v &_o unite_n &_o then_o
possible_o stand_v 1._o all_o the_o minister_n be_v make_v &_o appoint_v by_o the_o bishop_n if_o therefore_o the_o bishop_n be_v take_v away_o how_o can_v the_o minister_n remain_v the_o same_o take_v away_o the_o correlative_a &_o relation_n cease_v trew_n the_o relation_n cease_v but_o be_v that_o external_a relation_n unto_o a_o efficient_a cause_n any_o part_n of_o the_o substance_n or_o essence_n of_o the_o ministry_n i_o have_v think_v that_o the_o substance_n &_o essence_n of_o a_o thing_n have_v consist_v in_o matter_n &_o form_n &_o not_o in_o such_o external_a relation_n marriage_n be_v also_o make_v as_o mr._n r._n affirm_v by_o bishop_n authority_n take_v away_o bishop_n therefore_o &_o by_o this_o reason_n the_o marriage_n shall_v not_o remain_v the_o same_o for_o substance_n which_o they_o be_v now_o licence_n for_o teach_v school_n &_o in_o many_o place_n for_o practise_v of_o physic_n be_v give_v by_o the_o bishop_n &_o their_o officer_n take_v away_o the_o bishop_n &_o may_v not_o the_o same_o schoolmaster_n &_o physician_n yet_o still_o remain_v for_o substance_n that_o be_v before_o fie_o upon_o sophistry_n 2._o take_v away_o the_o prelacy_n say_v mr._n r._n and_o how_o can_v such_o a_o ministry_n continue_v whereof_o one_o part_n viz_o rule_v shall_v be_v usurp_v by_o the_o prelate_n as_o if_o when_o once_o that_o power_n be_v take_v from_o the_o minister_n it_o now_o apperteyn_v to_o the_o substance_n of_o his_o ministry_n by_o who_o it_o be_v usurp_v whether_o he_o that_o possess_v it_o be_v a_o bishop_n or_o a_o high_a commissioner_n or_o of_o some_o other_o place_n that_o which_o be_v without_o a_o thing_n may_v be_v change_v without_o any_o substantial_a change_n of_o the_o thing_n itself_o else_o how_o can_v mr._n r._n say_v that_o either_o the_o function_n of_o masspreist_n or_o of_o popish_a bishop_n do_v remain_v still_o in_o england_n as_o of_o old_a for_o substance_n when_o there_o be_v so_o great_a a_o alteration_n in_o that_o supreme_a power_n from_o whence_o of_o old_a they_o be_v derive_v the_o office_n of_o a_o king_n also_o it_o remain_v the_o same_o for_o substance_n now_o that_o it_o be_v in_o time_n of_o popery_n for_o the_o substantial_a part_n of_o it_o yet_o one_o part_n thereof_o be_v in_o those_o time_n usurp_v &_o possess_v by_o the_o pope_n &_o be_v now_o restore_v to_o the_o crown_n viz_o power_n over_o ecclesiastical_a person_n &_o in_o ecclesiastical_a cause_n it_o can_v therefore_o be_v deny_v but_o by_o the_o same_o reason_n the_o parochial_a ministry_n shall_v abide_v the_o same_o for_o substance_n that_o now_o it_o be_v though_v that_o part_n which_o be_v now_o usurp_v by_o bishop_n shall_v be_v restore_v again_o so_o that_o bishop_n be_v remove_v whether_o that_o power_n of_o rule_v shall_v be_v translate_v unto_o some_o other_o officer_n or_o settle_v in_o the_o minister_n as_o it_o ought_v mr._n r._n argument_n have_v by_o neither_o way_n any_o weight_n or_o force_n at_o all_o 3._o take_v away_o say_v he_o the_o provinc_fw-la &_o diocesan_n church_n &_o prelate_n the_o parochial_a church_n &_o minister_n as_o part_n of_o they_o must_v fall_v also_o as_o part_n of_o they_o in_o deed_n they_o must_v of_o necessity_n fall_v that_o be_v they_o must_v cease_v to_o be_v part_n of_o they_o but_o it_o do_v not_o therefore_o follow_v that_o any_o thing_n of_o their_o internal_a substance_n shall_v fall_v the_o national_a church_n of_o england_n &_o so_o the_o provincial_a &_o diocesan_n do_v once_o stand_v member_n or_o part_n of_o the_o ecumenical_a papal_a church_n of_o rome_n now_o that_o be_v remove_v out_o of_o england_n so_o far_o at_o least_o that_o this_o national_a church_n be_v not_o subject_a unto_o rome_n nor_o dependent_a on_o it_o or_o contain_v in_o it_o as_o a_o part_n in_o a_o whole_a yet_o mr._n r._n will_v say_v that_o the_o same_o diocesan_n provincial_a &_o national_a church_n remain_v for_o substance_n that_o be_v before_o why_o do_v he_o not_o then_o see_v that_o parochial_a church_n may_v remain_v the_o same_o for_o substance_n though_o diocese_n and_o province_n do_v follow_v the_o other_o 4._o he_o reckon_v up_o sundry_a corruption_n idol_n priest_n cross_a &_o surplice_n with_o such_o vanity_n mixture_n of_o profane_a with_o the_o godly_a and_o ask_v if_o it_o be_v possible_a that_o the_o prelacy_n be_v abolish_v such_o thing_n shall_v remain_v as_o now_o i_o answer_v 1._o it_o be_v possible_a there_o be_v more_o mean_n of_o disorder_n &_o corruption_n then_o one_o neither_o can_v any_o such_o necessary_a conjunction_n be_v show_v betwixt_o the_o prelacy_n &_o these_o abuse_n but_o that_o it_o be_v possible_a to_o separate_v one_o from_o the_o other_o yet_o 2._o if_o they_o shall_v all_o be_v abolish_v with_o the_o prelacy_n no_o reasonable_a man_n will_v therefore_o say_v that_o the_o substance_n of_o parochial_a church_n shall_v be_v therein_o change_v if_o praejudice_n can_v be_v set_v apart_o the_o shallowness_n of_o this_o &_o the_o former_a reason_n can_v not_o be_v hide_v from_o the_o eye_n of_o he_o that_o frame_v they_o to_o a_o main_a objection_n by_o mr._n r._n urge_v viz_o 9_o that_o all_o parochial_a minister_n be_v subject_a unto_o the_o spiritual_a jurisdiction_n of_o prelate_n answer_n be_v give_v first_o that_o so_o be_v private_a christian_n subject_n unto_o the_o same_o jurisdictâ—â—_n not_o only_o in_o their_o church_n action_n which_o they_o perform_v with_o other_o in_o public_a but_o also_o for_o personal_a &_o private_a opinion_n &_o behaviour_n this_o subjection_n therefore_o do_v no_o more_o hinder_a communion_n with_o the_o one_o then_o with_o the_o other_o in_o thing_n that_o be_v good_a to_o which_o answer_n mr._n r._n reply_v nothing_o but_o refer_v unto_o his_o former_a book_n where_o as_o good_a as_o nothing_o be_v to_o be_v find_v if_o there_o have_v be_v a_o fit_a answer_n to_o be_v give_v we_o shall_v certain_o either_o have_v have_v it_o repeat_v here_o for_o of_o repetition_n mr._n r._n be_v not_o so_o nice_a or_o at_o least_o the_o page_n quote_v where_o we_o may_v have_v find_v it_o but_o in_o deed_n it_o be_v not_o possible_a but_o if_o mere_a subjection_n to_o bishop_n be_v in_o itself_o a_o sufficient_a bar_n against_o public_a communion_n it_o must_v also_o be_v hold_v sufficient_a against_o such_o private_a in_o &_o for_o which_o a_o man_n be_v also_o subject_a the_o second_o answer_n unto_o the_o forename_a objection_n be_v that_o the_o great_a part_n of_o the_o prelate_n jurisdiction_n be_v from_o the_o king_n derive_v unto_o those_o that_o do_v exercise_v the_o same_o and_o therefore_o must_v of_o necessity_n be_v a_o civil_a power_n such_o as_o the_o king_n may_v as_o well_o perform_v by_o other_o civil_a officer_n as_o it_o be_v in_o the_o high_a commission_n the_o law_n of_o the_o land_n do_v so_o esteem_v it_o etc._n etc._n in_o this_o mr._n r._n insist_v much_o as_o think_v no_o small_a advantage_n to_o be_v give_v he_o &_o therefore_o require_v of_o the_o reader_n well_o to_o observe_v what_o here_o be_v say_v on_o both_o side_n in_o which_o request_n i_o ioigne_v with_o he_o so_o that_o it_o be_v mark_v withal_o that_o i_o do_v not_o undertake_v to_o justify_v the_o bishops_n whole_a state_n much_o less_o their_o proceed_n but_o only_o so_o far_o that_o some_o subjection_n unto_o some_o of_o their_o authority_n be_v not_o simple_o unlawful_a mr._n r._n plea_n after_o his_o preamble_n arise_v unto_o these_o 3_o defence_n 1._o the_o law_n do_v no_o where_o derive_v from_o the_o king_n civil_a authority_n the_o power_n of_o the_o bishop_n spiritual_a administration_n but_o do_v only_o make_v the_o king_n a_o establisher_n &_o up_o holder_n civil_o of_o this_o power_n 2._o though_o the_o law_n of_o the_o land_n do_v esteem_v this_o jurisdiction_n civil_a yet_o it_o do_v not_o follow_v that_o therefore_o it_o be_v such_o in_o deed_n because_o they_o misesteeme_v diverse_a thing_n 3._o that_o the_o prelate_n jurisdiction_n be_v not_o civil_a as_o appear_v plain_o by_o 5_o reason_n of_o he_o allege_v for_o the_o first_o of_o these_o i_o appeal_v 1._o to_o the_o oath_n of_o the_o clergy_n to_o the_o king_n establish_v by_o a_o statut_fw-la law_n in_o the_o reign_n of_o king_n henry_n 8._o exstant_fw-la in_o mr._n fox_n p._n 961._o where_o the_o bishop_n swear_v that_o he_o knowledge_v himself_o to_o hold_v his_o bishopric_n of_o the_o king_n only_o 2._o to_o the_o act_n that_o be_v then_o make_v for_o the_o supremacy_n wherein_o all_o jurisdiction_n belong_v to_o the_o title_n of_o head_n of_o the_o church_n in_o england_n be_v give_v to_o the_o king_n as_o it_o be_v in_o the_o same_o book_n p._n 963.3_o i_o appeal_v to_o the_o 5._o book_n of_o sir_n edward_n cook_n report_n where_o he_o show_v out_o of_o