it in manner form then have been ever since the Pope was expelled not onely for not preaching for which no man is so censured but for all other wickednes of what kynde soever though abounding in the ministery there By which that theyr set service is advaunced above all that is called God made a very hatefull Idol to which both great small are compelled to bow down it to honour Which Idol-serviâ—e also vpholdeth an Idol-ministery which as it is truely so called would without it be vvell nigh as dumb as the Idols of the heathens which have mouthes speak not For conclusion he affirmeth that by the lawes of Geneva like strictnes to vvit vnto that in Engl is vsed towardes the inhabitants of that city though I vnadvisedly deny it in myne assertion of the Engl assemblyes difference therein from all â—mue Churches in the world pag 20. In that place of my book I observ tvvo mayn differences betvveen the Churches of Christ as the scriptures testify of them and the parrish asseÌ„blâ—es in their very constitution With these differences thus propounded he medleth not eyther by shewing how the assemblies agree therein with the Apostolicall Churches or how disagreeing from them in the one and other they can be true visible Churches rightly gathered constituted But where by the way for amplication I mention the reformed Churches as inâ—eressed in the same differences froÌ„ Engl he there stâ—ps in and takes me by the hand and leades me along to Geneva as bâ—like rayther hopeing to make the Church of Engl agree in some thing with the lawes of Geneva then with the lawes of Christs testament But was the Church of Geneva indeed gathered of all the apparently wicked and flâ—gitious persons in the citty amongst the rest scarse sensible in so vast a heap as were and are the English parrochiall assemblies If the state of Geneva did in a politique râ—spect expell out of the citie such the inhabitants as were not well affected towards the religion and that the Church were gathered of the rest being judged in charity capable of the holy things of God uppon their personall confessior how then standeth this agreement between the Genevean and Engl assemblies And if the Church of Gen had been gathered after popery as the Engl assemblies were and it was not of all the vnhallowed rowt in the citty vvithout separation I should confesse myne unadvisednes in my better judgement of it then it deserved And thus much for this letter which the Authour might more fitly have called â—n exercise of wit then â— Manuduction as he doth And for that it is in effect intended for the justification of the Ministerie it shall not be amisse for the better help of the Reader and furtherance of the truth breifly to set down such particulars as by the scriptures and good reason thereunto agreeable are of absolute necessitie for a true ordinary Church-officer and minister of Christ which for order sake I will reduce to four heads The first is that there be a true visible Church in which he is to be appoynted God haveing set in the Church Apostles Prophets Teachers etc mention being made every where of the makeing and ordeyning of Elders or Bishops in the Churches Whereupon 1. I desire to know how the ministers of the Church of England can be true Ministers not being made and ordeyned such in and to any particular Church 2. Since as is rightly acknowledged in the former part of the book Every true visible Church is a company of people called and separated out fâ—oÌ„ the world I would know how many and which of the parrish Churches consist of such a separated people and are not both at the â—est in their persons mixt of the people of God and the world and also mixt in one nationall provinciall and diocesan Church or body with all the godles multitude and part of the world in that land 3. I ad that since a separated people from the world is but the matter of the Church and that for a true Church a true form is also required it must also be shewed how that can be found there This form cannot be any particular act which is transeunt and passeth away but something constant and permanent without which resydeing actually in the whole and all the partes thereof the Church cannot consist one moment neyther yet can it be any personall thing eyther disposition or other relation whatsover nor other as I conceav then a publique orderly covenant and union of a particular assembly by which it hath in it self entyre right to Christ and to all the meanes of enjoying him which I rayther wiâ—h could be theÌ„ beleefe can be for the present found in any parrish Church in the land Lastly if the Provinciall and Diocesan Churches be not true visible Churches which I suppose is this Authours judgment I would know how the parrish assemblies being partes of the other and so partes of false Churches can any more be reputed true Churches then could a particular Iewish Synagogue be reputed a true Church which should have made it self an entyre and independent body in respect of the nationall Church and Temple But now if any of the parrish assemblyes be thus separated in theyr personall church estate and formed accordeingly though with defects wants we desire to take knowledg of them and which they be that we may rejoyce for the grace of God towards them and perform vnto them the dutyes of Christian fellowship as is meet The 2 d necessary for a true ministery is a fit person in whom apâ—nes to teach vnreproveablenes in conversation is found even reason teaching that whomsoever God calleth to any estate he fitteth coÌ„peâ—ently for the mayn works thereof In whom also for his own comfort with God is required an inward calling which with Calvin I conceav to be an holy disposition desire to administer the gospell of Christ to the glory of God and furtherance of mans salvation Which inward calling as a true minister before men may want as did Indas so for that they in Engl much pretend it wheÌ„ they caÌ„noâ— justify their outward I demaund whether a man thus inwardly called of God forefitted accordingly being withall perswaded in his heart that a lawfull outward calling without sin in the enterance continuance cannot he had in the Ch of Engl whether I say such a maÌ„ be not bound in conscience to seek out or procure an other Church then the Church of Engl in the present state thereof by vnto which he may laâ—fully enter administer how otherwise he doth not eyther carelesly neglect or sinfully profane the Lordes inward calling in his heart The 3 d thing necessary is a true lawfull office or function of ministery there being as the Apostle teacheth diversityes of administrations but by the same Lord even the L Iesus who when he â—scended on high gave gifts vnto men some Apostles some Prophts some EvaÌ„gelists some Pastours Teachers Now this office order not being a matter of dignity as the order of knighthood or the like but of work service this worke standing summarily in feeding the flock Act. 20. 28. and this feeding in teaching ruleing as the two mayn partes thereof I demaund how that can possibly be the true lawfull function or office of a Byshop or Pastour vnto vvhich preaching to the flock is not necessarily required not ruleing so much as permitted as vve all knovv the case standeth vvith the English ministery Lastly there is required a true lavvfull outvvard calling of the ministers by those in vvhom the Lord hath left that right povver vvhich if the scriptures may bear svvay are the particular congregations in and vnto vvhich they are to administer And of such force is this true lawful outvvard calling as that by it none othervvise this fiâ— and lavvfull person becomes properly immediately a true pastour And hovv then can he be a true pastour vvhose calling vnto his function or office of preisthood in the Ch of Eng is merely by the prelate of the province or Diocesse by vvhose licence or institution he is also aftervvards designed to his more particular charge These 4 conditions every of them are necessarily requyred to the constitution of a true pastour are none of them to my knovvledg save the 2 d to be found in the parochiall ministery Let myne opposite eyther disprove the former or manifest the latter hovv vvhere such a ministery is to be found but let him do it in that godly simplycity vvhich becommeth the gospel and the things thereof pâ—escribeing to himself vvith due reverence of God in vvhose vvorke he dealeth the sacred bounds of the Apostle saying we can do nothing agaynst the truth but for the truth In into vvhich the God thereof guide both him and my selfe and all his alvvayes Amen * Isa 35. 8. psalm 84. 6 8. Pro 8. 8. ◠†Ps. 119. â—â— * 1 Sam 17. 51. 1. Quaere Answer Act. 1. 13. c. 10. 30 47. 〈◊〉 7. 2. Quaere Anâ—w 3 Qu Ans. 14â—5 Mr. Fox Rev. 13. 15. 16. 17. 14 9. 10. Act 9. Rev. 18. 4. 4 Qu Ans. 5 Qu Ans Act. 20. 17. 20 1 Thes 5. 1â— 1 Tim 5. 17. â— Cor. 4. 2. Rom 15. 31 Heb 13 17 * Gen 17. †1 Cor 5. 12. â— Qu Ans Ioh 10. 7 Qu Ans 1 Tim 5 Numb 16. Act. 6 14 * Book of ordering of Preists Mat. 10 40 1 Cor 16. 10. Quae 1 2. Heb. 6. â— Quare impedit Pag 10. Ans to the 3 obiect * 1 Cor 10. Iohn 16. 39. †De excoÌ„municato capiâ—nâ—o Coâ—secration of Byshops 1 Tim. 5. 17 Heb 13 17. Mat. â—8 20. Deut. 4. 2. 6. 1. 2. Psal 119. 8. 1. Cor. 5. â— â— 1 Cor. 5. 4. â— Math. 28. Mark 16. Psal. 115. * 1. Cor. 12. 28. Act. 14. 23 20. 17. 28 1 Tim. 3 1. Tit. 1. 5. 1 Tim 3. 1 Cor 12. 5 Eph 4. 8. 11. 12 13. 1 Tim 3. 1. 1 Tim. 5. 17 Heb 5. 4. 5 Act. 1 c 14. 1. Tim 3.
A MANVMISSI ON TO A MANVDVCTION OR ANSWER TO A LETTER INFERRING PUBlique communion in the parrish assemblies upon private with godly persons there Stand fast in the liberty wherwith Christ hath made you free Gal. 5. 1. Be not partaker of other mens sinns keep thy self pure 1. Tim. 5. 22. By Iohn Robinson Anno Domini 1615. To the godly reader ALbeit I be justly sorry for all oppositions against the truth yet not so for this occasion of further manifesting that my formerly professed perswasion that publique communion with the parrish assemblies cannot be inferred vppon private with godly persons though members there the constitution and estate of the same assemblies rearing up a partitioÌ„ wall neyther so transparent as may be seen thorough mâ—â—h lesse so open as may be passed no not in the best charity as this manuducent supposeth but on the contrary so grosse entyre in evill as that no engine of wit or art can so batter it as to make a safe passage through it for a good conscience Needfull it were in a matter of this nature and weight that the manuducent or hand leader should guide men by the playn and open way of the sâ—riptures as is the way of the Lord in them layd down open playn as the King high way and beaten by the feet of the Apostolicall churches not by subtile Quaerees and doubtfull Suppositions and such under hand conveyances as may lead the vnwary into a maze and there loose him but cannot clear the way for an vpright coÌ„science Of the way of Christ it was prophesied of ould An high way shal be there and a way and it shal be called the way of holines the vnclean shall not pase over it for he shal be with these the wayfareing man though fooles shall not erre therein But so many and doubtfull are the wyndeings of this mans way as that he who findes it had need be no wayfareing man but a town-dweller and well acquainted with all the secret turnings thereof nor a fool as the Prophet speaketh but one haveing wit indeed more then a good deal But let them in whose hearts are the highwayes of the Lord that they may goe froÌ„ strength to strength till they appear vnto God in Sion let them I say not suffer themselves to be led by the turnings of mans devise whatsoever but by the wordes of the wisdom of God which are all in righteousnes in which there is nothing wreathed or perverse but they are all playne to him that will understand and straight to him that would fynde knowledge Now for my persvasion about publique and private communion it is the same which I have manifested in my other book and that wherein so far as by the weak light which God hath given to shine in my heart I can discern I neyther wrong the good in that Church person or thing nor partake in the evill of eyther My trust is that God who hath given me my part though in great infirmity in the Prophets comfort with all my heart have I sought thee will also fulfill his request uppon me let me not wander from thy commandements IT was some addition of honour to Davids victory over the Philistime that he slew him with his own sword vpoÌ„ which hope mine opposite as it seemes enterprizeth the beating down of the partition wall of our separation from the parrish assemblies in theyr publique communion government and ministery by the engine of mine own acknowledgment of private communion with the persons peâ—sonall graces os many christians though otherwise members there uppon which acknowledgment he therefore propoundeth certeyn Quaerees or Demaunds in number seaven the first whereof is Suppose one of those many so qualifyed as that in the judgment of those that can disâ—â—rn he is competently fit to be employed in the publique ministery having his own 〈◊〉 given to thâ—t work and the hearts of many â—â—aâ—ing his help suppose I say that such a man not fyndeing means for the present of a comfortable enterance into that calling shalby leav in a publique assembly where many like himself and many unlike are gathered togather without any further calling for a â—yme perform the actions of prayer prâ—pâ—â—sying without any addition deâ—ractâ—ion or alteration of that which he had lawfully done in private my demaund is whether it be not lawfull to communicate with him in his work I answer that these exercises of religion not performed by this persoÌ„ by any publique calling or authority but onely by his personall gift desyre to do good are not publique or Church actions but private and personall nor communion with him therein publique but private communion no not though performed by him in a publique place which no more makes the action to be of publique nature or a Church action which in my whole book I make as they are the same then did the private chambers where the Apostles administred the word sacraments to the Churches make these theyr administrations private or personall Reason it self teacheth that publique actions are onely such as are performed by publique authority See Mr. Perkins in Treatise of Christian equity for this purpose The same answer serveth for the 2 d Qu which supposeth onely a longer continuance of tyme in the same course by coâ—niveâ—â—y of them in authority since mere continuance in the same course especially as an ordinate means â—o the same end altereth not the nature thereof And so this as the former Quaere is besides the purpose in hand Onely I ad that no man can continue thus preaching in a publique place especially some years but under the cloak appearance of a Byshops minister though he be not such indeed Suppose yet the same man obteyneth a licence from the L. Byshop of the Diocesse without any unlawfull condition for to continue in that his course I ask whether that leav or licence given doth pollute the actions seing a man may ask leav of the great Turk to preach the Gospell within his dominions This Supposition conteyneth a contradiction for the very obteyning receiving of the Bishops licence which yet I think no man doth before he have receaved orders as they are called is a real acknowledgment that the Byshop hath a lawfull power to graunt it which is an vnlawfull condition John Claydon a martyr of Christ was otherwise minded then this man wheÌ„ he witnessed that the Byshops licence to preach the word of God was the true character of the beast i. e. Antichrist Neyther is there the like reason of procuring the Byshops liecence to preach the gospell in his Province or Diocesse of asking leav of the great Turk to preach in his dominions For 1. he minceth the matter too much in making this obteyning of the Bishops licence to be nothing but the asking him leav as a man may ask leav of the great Turk that is desire
be of the Church the minister of them to take charge as his flock as the parochiall ministers do but as the same is a part of the Bishops flock well serving for to supporte his lawlesse Lordship Now no man weighing these things with an equall hand will judge them light and sleighty matters but weighty as he speaks substantiall in about the ministery Which therefore cannot stand as now it doth in the severall parrishes when God in mercy to that nation shall root out that plant of the prelacy which his hand never planted Where after to myne obiection charge that all the parochiall ministers are subject vnto the jurisdiction of the prelates spiritually in theyr citations suspentions and excoÌ„munications he for answer alledgeth that prevate Christians are subiect to the same jurisdiction personally for personall private opinions and behaviours also it is that which I say vppon which I infer a separation from the formall state government of that Church every manner of way since with the sinns of Babylon whereof I have proved in my former book the Hierarchicall government one no man may partake But if herevppon he would conclude the vnlawfulnes of private or personall communion with the godly as well as of publique or Church communion I must deny his consequence because I would not repeat the same things agayn do desire the Reader to take knowledg of the double difference about this matter shewed in my former book But he gives a 2 d answer vppon which also the lawfulnes of the Byshops authority is much pleaded throughout the whole book Which by the way I desyre the Reader to observ withall how such as go on in opposeing our separation are driven in the end to justify the Bishops authority though diversly His answer defence is The greatest parte of theyr jurisdiction being externall coactive or forcing is from the king derived vnto those that do exercise the same therefore must of necessity be a civile power such as the king might as well perform by other civile officers as it is indeed exercised in the high-commission some other courts also â—he lawes of the land do so esteem it as Sir Edward Cook now L cheif justice of Engl hath largely shewed in the first book of his reportes Divers pleas for the prelates have been made by men diversly mynded touching them but that theyr jurisdiction in theyr provinces Diocesses should be civile coactive for externall we graunt it to be which is ill joyned as the same with civile coactive since even spiritual ordinaunces are externall also this I say is a plea which to my remembrance I never heard of before The Authour in the front of his book proclaymes the vnreasonablenes of our separation but I hope the Lord will give me grace and modesty never to defend or continue in that state standing for which I shal be driven to make so vnreasonable a defence which is indeed an argument of an ill cause of no good consideration that I say no more in the writer For the better then both clearing of this poynt here and elsâ—where in the book help of others otherwise it must be considered that the Byshops have in theyr haÌ„ds a double authority the one civile as magistrates the other spirituall as Church-officers and so do perform workes of divers kyndes according to these their divers callings By the former they sit with other Barrons in the parliament-howle for the enacting of lawes statutes vnder bodily punishments some of them also being of the kings pâ—ivy councell some of his high commission haveing therein ioynt authority with other Lords Magistrates civil They are generally in the Countyes Shyres where they live Iusticers of peace in the same Commission with other honourable worshipfull personages thus they sit vppon the bench at Assises Sessions have authority civil ioyntly with the other Iusticers so severally as they at other tymes to apprehend imprison fyne punish bodily malefactors according to the common lawes of the land theyr office of Iusticeship and all these theyr administratioÌ„s they perform expresly in the kings name In which also they are to be honoured obeyed as are other civil magistrates whatsoever by all the kings subiects wherein for my self I professe communion with submission vnto theyr authority power But besydes this theyr civil authority they have also ecclesiasticall Iurisdiction as they are the Arch-Byshops of Provinces Byshops of Dioceses And thus they with the rest of theyr triumphant Church Clergy sit in the convocation house frameing Canons constitutions ecclesiasticall vnder spirituall penaltyes Thus they ordeyn ministers institute them to theyr several charges give them licences to preach within theyr provinces Diocesses Thus they keep theyr spirituall courts by themselves theyr subordinates Chauncelours Commissaryes Arch-Deacons other theyr officials citeing men thither by theyr Apparitours as on the contrary in theyr civil administrations though in matters ecclesiasticall they vse Pursivants Constables There and thus they suspend depose degrade ministers as at the first they ordeyned and appoynted them as they also excommunicate absolv both ministers and people as they see cause proceeding in all these not in the name of the king as in the former but expresly in the name of God in vnto which theyr vsurpation of the name or power of God Christ no communion may be had or submission yealded And where he affirmeth that the greatest parte of theyr Iurisdiction to wit in theyr Provinces Diocesses is derived from the king which he might as well perform by other civile officers that the lawes of the land do so esteem it alledging to that end S. Edw Cook L cheif Iustice there is a great mistakeing in the matter No onely the greatest parte of but in effect theyr whole Iurisdiction in theyr provinces diocesses standes in theyr ordeyning of ministers excommunicateing of offenders with theyr apurtenances in theyr contraryes of the same nature Now to make the power of excommunication of ordination of ministers civile or these such workes as may be performed by civile magistrates the king or others is to confound heaven earth to make Christs kingdome whereof these works in theyr nature are administrations to be of this world This power of the prelates is in it self nature spirituall in the extent of it over an whole Province Diocese all the Congregations therein to the abolishing of the power both of officers people papall antichristian Of which the kings civile authority is no parent but onely a nurseâ— otherwise the king should be not the dâ—fender onely but the authour of the Churches sayth in her government ministery Papists have made of Popes kings by deriveing from them civile governments and will protestants make of kings Popes by
deriving spirituall authority from them And because Popeish kings have given theyr power to the beast shall Christian kings therefore take the beasts power vnto them which they should surely do in makeing themselves the spring-heades from whence floweth the power of makeing ministers excommunicateing offenders which the Prelates vse in theyr Provinces Diocesses And albeit for want of the bookes I cannot exactly set down the judgment of the lawes in this case yet may I safely affirm that they no where derive from the kings civile authority the power of these spirituall administrations but do onely make the king the establisher vphoulder civily of this power The same ecclesiasticall jurisdiction which had been in vse in popery a great part of the popish Hierarchy was confirmed Eliz pri so continueth at this day in vayn men apply theyr industry arâ— in the washing of this blackmore Neyther yet doth it follow though the lawes of the land did esteem this Iurisdiction civile that therefore it were such indeed They may and do misesteem many things especially of this kynde They esteem the Crosse Surplice c. indifferent yea comely â—dificative ceremonyes are they therefore such or so esteemed by this authour So for those corrupt vsurpations abuses which he affirmeth to be mingled with the Byshops so seeming vnto him civile power do not the lawes of the land esteem even them also lawfull laudable ordinances orders The Arguments therefore from the lawes esteem to the nature of the thing is of no force Now that the prelates Iurisdiction in theyr Prov Dioc is not civile but ecclesiasticall a spiritual externall power appeareth playnly by these Reasons First where he makes it civile because it is coactive or bodily enforceing I conclude on the contrary that because it is not so coactive therefore it is not civile The furthest the Byshops can go as Byshops is to excommunicate a man or to pronounce him an heretique which done they may deliver him to the secular power or procure a civile coactive processe agaynst him from the L Chauncelour in certayn cases 2 dly Where he affirmeth that the king might perform the works of theyr jurisdiction by other civile officers there neyther can be stronger nor need be other Arguments to prove the contrary then the very consideration of the nature of those theyr workes which are for substance the makeing of ministers excommunicateing of offenders with theyr contraryes appâ—rtenances which to call civile workes what is it but to make a civile religion 3 dly Let theyr consecration to theyr byshopricks be looked into and there wil be found in them no word or sillable insinuateing any civile authority but onely that which is spirituall for the feeding of the flock doeing the work wherevnto the H Ghost hath called them such scriptures also being therevnto applyed as conteyn in them onely the callings offices workes of the ministers of the Church 4 ly Theyr civile authority whether that which is peculiar to some of them as to be of the pryvy councell or high commission or that which is more ordinary coÌ„mon to all as to be Iusticers of peace in the countryes where they live is but one the same conveyed by one and the same ioynt calling commission with that of other counsaylers commissioners Iusticers therefore is nothing at all to that iurisdiction by which they ordeyn ministers and excommunicate offenders which the foresayd civile magistrates neyther have nor can have power to practise though by theyr civile power they do and may civilely restreyn men vnder peyn of bodily punishmeÌ„t Ad vnto this also that the Byshops may do excercise all every part of theyr episcopall authority where they have not the least civile authority viz in the cittyes and corporations within theyr Provinces and Diocesses as for example the Bishop of Norwich in the city of Norwich where his civile authority is no more then myne Lastly whereas all civile proceedings are made in the name of the king they on the contrary side proceed In the name of God though too oft verifying the old saying In nomine Dei incipit omne malum And by these reasons that which I did not suspect that any would have denyed is confirmed to wit that the Prelates power in theyr Provinces and Diocesses is not civile but a kynde of externall spirituall power which I have also in my former book proved Antichristian as vsurpeing vppon Christes royal prerogatives subverting the order of true Christian government su allowing vp as with full mouth both the peoples liberty and Elders government wherewtih Christ the Lord hath invested the true Church He proceedeth But if this be so then sayth Mr Rob those ministers are vnder no spirituall government and so be lawlesse persons and inordinate walkers c. His answers are 1. that they so govern themselves as that no honest man hath cause to abhor from theyr communion 2 that they are subiect to civile government even in spirituall actions in the larger acception of the word to externall regiment merely spirituall 3. that they are no more lawles persons then I my self was when I had no elder ioyned with me or am now with myne one Elder since I exclude the people from all government In these answers he neyther dealeth with me nor the cause of the Lord as is meet For first I do not in my book inter this exception vppon the former ground as he sets it down for his advantage as will appear in the examination of the 3. answer 2. I do not alledg it to prove communion vnlawfull with them as he insinuates but to reprove that vppon theyr own plea theyr Church-state standing as such as wherein they neyther do nor can enioy the spirituall externall government of Christ in his Church so neyther have that conscience which is meet of the commaundements of Christ by his Apostles to give due honour to them who rule well to submit themselves to those who are over them in the Lord nor of theyr own frayltyes in what need they stand of the Lords ordinances of this in speciall for theyr guidance conservation in his wayes And though he passe by this reproof not myne but the H Ghostes turning it off another way yet let the godly Reader with good conscience remember that the disciples of Christ are to observ whatsoever he hath commaunded his Apostles withall that it was the Prophets comfort that he should not be confounded when he had respect to all Gods cammaundemeÌ„ts 3. In his 1. 2. answer he speakes not at all to the purpose in hand our question not being about the personall government which a man hath over himself nor about civile government though in spirituall actions nor about government at all in the larger acceptation of the word ut onely as it is taken