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book_n	church_n	doctrine_n	rome_n	2,813	5	6.6425	4	true

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A91473	Independency accused by nine severall arguments: written by a godly learned minister, to a member of Mr. John Goodwins congregation, and acquitted by severall replyes to the said arguments by a member of the same church. In both which, sweetnesse of spirit, and soundnesse of arguments have been endeavoured. Published according to order.	I. P.	1645 (1645)	Wing P53A; Thomason E296_16; ESTC R200209	27,998	39

before Sadduces Pharisees and severall other sorts were permitted neither do I remember where they were compelled against their judgements either in matter of Profession or Practice except as being members of that Church to the main doctrines worship and government expressed in the Word and surely there is far more and better reasons for the toleration and permission of the Independent then can be given for the toleration of such persons as the Jewes did tolerate for these agree with Presbyterians in the main grounds of Religion and principles of the Gospel these are confest by their Brethren to be holy godly and learned and of singular use and benefit both in Church and Commonwealth c. and the toleration of none others are pleaded for in Mr. Goodwins Theomachia from that Sermon which you mention But wee will not stand on this particular because it may be one of the corruptions of those times to suffer such Sects especially the Sadduces who though for reasons not reproved by our Saviour as some other corruptions were not mentioned by him Wee have said enough before to this Argument As for those Doctrines which you say you would raise from that Text if you were to preach upon it I conceive the two first you mention are indeed very naturall but how you will draw the third from thence as naturall from that Text I cannot see but it would be a digression for mee to meddle with that and therefore I leave it to your own further consideration ARGUMENT IX I Desire to know whether that law Deut. 13. of putting a false Prophet to death or any one that should entice men from the Way of the true God there be not morall equity in it and therefore binde the Magistrate and Chuches of God to the end of the world Calvin and the Church vf Geneva burnt a blasphemer they looked upon the morall equity of that law Levit. 24.16 He that blasphemeth the name of the Lord shall surely be put to death all the Congregation shall stone him Why should not Christians be as tender of the name of God as the Jewes were Is not his name as great and glorious that it may be more securely blasphemed now then it might then But a Presbyterian president will have but little authority with Congregationall Churches therefore I desire that Mr. Cotton one of your own upon whose learning and judgement the wel-willer to Mr. Prynne hee that put forth the first answer to his twelve Queries would have men much to rely may be heard speak in the point in his book entituled Powring out the seven Vials on Rev. 16.4 5 6 7. Verses His very doctrine is this Upon the discovery of the deadly corruption of the Sea of Rome it was a righteous judgement of God and such as argued him unchangeable ever like himselfe that the Priests and Jesuits who carryed that Religion up and down the Nations should be adjudged or condemned to a bloody death His meaning is evidently this not because enemies to the civill State but because they carryed Ordinances Doctrines up and down the world which were no better then the blood of a dead man and every soule that drank of them died therefore they themselves must drink blood Within a few lines after his doctrine he quotes Zach. 13.2 3. spealing of the times under the Gospel 't is cleer from the first verse and so doth Mr. Thomas Goodwin interpret it in his triall of the growth of Grace God will out off the false Prophet and if any false Prophet shall arise his Father and Mother shall thrust him therow because hee speaks lies in the name of the God of truth be shall not live Vpon which Text hee thus glosses It is not spoken of his typicall death i of his death by Church-censure or banishment which have a kinde of death in them but of such a death as that he was not worthy to live because he cast a lie upon the God of Truth the Oracle of Truth In his first Reasons of his point he affirms that no Magistrate ought to have put Paul to death for his errours and blasphemies because be did all ignorantly 1 Tim. 1.14 had the truth been made known to him hee would not have done as hee did but such as blaspheme and teach errours wilfully after admonition twice or thrice the glorious light of the Gospel shining round about them those hee affirms ought to be looked upon with another eye ought to drink blood His first objection is this In the new Testament we must look for a spirituall death i Church-censure only He answers his Text is in the new Testament not in the old the new Testament sayes such are worthy to drink the blood of their own hearts the holy Ghost sayes hee will have it true according to the Letter and further answers that 't was one of Moses his morall lawes of perpetuall equity thrusting men away from God is as odious now as then In his fifth Vse he has these very words Heresie is no more pleasing to him nor blasphemie nor seducing nor to change the Way of Gods worship and to draw men to Wayes wherein they cannot enjoy God in peace murther of soules is no more welcome to God now then of old and therefore if there were a law to punish such with capitall punishment it is a like justice in God to enjoyn such lawes in every Christian Commonwealth His second Objection is this Conscience must not be forced men must not be put to death for their conscience Hee answers Heretiques were as conscionable in the old Testament as now and if any man have a conscience to turn men from God God would have men have as much conscience to cut them off glossing upon Tit. 3. 10 11. thus He that will not be admonished is rejected given up to the civil Magistrate to be punished or put to death not for his conscience but because hee sins against his conscience the cleere shining light of the Gospel Whereupon I thinke it followes that any errour whatsoever though not fundamentall if it be wilfully held and taught against instructions and admonitions especially if it make Sects and Factions let them be never so conscionable in their Wayes professe never so much of God to be in them the Magistrate may and ought to punish them according to the nature of their errours and their mouths must be stopped that their teaching do no more subvert REPLY FIrst if that law Deut. 13. of putting a false Prophet to death or any one that shall entice men from the true God be morall equity and still binding the Magistrates and Churches of God unto the end of the world is to be understood as it there followes of inducing to Idolatry wherein notwithstanding there is something peculiar to that nation as in the 15th verse of that Chapter If a City should turn away from the true God to serve other gods that they shauld smite the inhabitants thereof and the

Eldership over them and not severall Elderships for the severall companies and not being tied any of them to come to any one place more then another it doth no more argue they were many congregations or hinder their being one though inconvenient to be governed by reason of its vastnesse then it doth in Holland where the case is so or then in some great parishes in and about London where though they meet in one place yet cannot meet all together by reason of the multitude being above 10000. in some parishes unlesse at severall times if it were so that they had been Presbyteriall in a city yet it is far different from that government that makes many towns cities one Church and drawes them to subjection to one common Presbytery and that in ordinary against which many Reasons might be given though the other were admitted Thirdly If the Churches of those times had not so judged that the Way the Apostles left Churches in was to be their pattern as it had been easie for them to order it as afterward their posterity did into Episcopacie so had it been more advantage and ease to them to have united many Churches together into one body and to set one Councell and President over it for the suppressing of Heresies Schismes c. which yet they did not till times grew more corrupt and which at this day is the state of the Papacie Fourthly Though this might suffice yet I shall now shew you how it might come to passe that this received truth might be lost and no notice left of any contending for it First greater truths then this of government have been stolen from the Church without any great reluctancy As far as appears as the reading of the Scriptures by the people transubstantiation of the bread in the Sacrament adoration of the Host the Masse it self taking the cup from the people c. which the subtilty of men taking advantage by the negligence and cowardise of the people brought in without much opposition till long after Secondly the monuments of antiquity in this kinde are very defective first by the notable carelesnesse of Writers in those times of which Ludovicus apud Illyricum in Refutat Brin pag. 15. an Author of no mean credit complains It is a singular grief to me saith he when I call to minde how diligently the actions of Alexander Scipio Annibal Pompey Cesar Socrates Plato Aristotle and other Captains and Philosophers have been noted that there is no perill of their perishing but the doings of the Apostles except such as are set down in sacred Scripture Martyrs and Saints of our Religion yea and of the Church it self whether growing up or at full age are covered in deep silence for these things which are written excepting a few only are corrupted with feigned inventions c. thus hee a man by profession a Papist Secondly because of the prevalencie of the Romish faction whereby all monuments almost that seemed to oppose the intended usurpation as the ancient government of the Churches especially did were either spupressed or some way violated as amongst many others Dr. James hath discovered at large in his book entituled The Corruption of Fathers c. But Lastly to give you a more direct answer there have not been wanting defendents of the liberties of the Churches in this particular for seeing it is evident by the first second and third particular in this answer that both in the Apostles times and next ages after the Churches were governed each by themselves as in respect of authority out of their own body if there were any that resisted those that invaded that liberty those are the examples of suffering or at least contesting for this government but the Bishops were the first that usurped the power of many Churches in ordinary and these were often resisted by word writing and fact as appeares not only by Aerius who was counted an Heretique for his labour but also by Jerom who saith that Bishops were brought in to prevent Heresies and Schismes but that the Churches were anciently governed by the joynt counsell of the Elders Now this was either by the Elders of the same Church or if with others it was a conjunction by way of Christian fellowship and society not by jurisdiction authority and necessity as wee saw before I adde that the sufferings of so many in opposition to Papall government even in the ancient times is an argument in a negative sense that there hath been sufferings for Church-government because they would not submit to a false government To conclude this argument I shall endeavour at better leisure to give you some particular instances out of the story which maymore fully satisfie this Querie Insigniores Ecclesiae c. They which were more eminent Churches say they were in some honour because of the Apostles that taught in them and because of their Ministers that were more excellent for learning and constancy and likewise of the benefits that those Churches did afford to other neighbour Churches but they had no other power over other Churches then by mutuall offices in things belonging to the edification of the whole Church to afford them their help and then instances in particular Churches 2. The Churches in the next age after the Apostles Cent. 2. cap. 7. titul de consociatione Ecclesiarum Caeterum si quis probatos autores c. If say they any man look into the approved Authors of this age hee shall find that the form of government was almost like a popular government for every Church had equall power to preach the Word of God purely to administer the Sacraments to absolve and excommunicate heretiques and wicked men to elect call and ordain Ministers and upon sufficient grounds to depose them to call assemblies and Synods in doubtfull things and that were controversall to require the opinions of others to judge and determine them Further the neighbour Churches for charity and edification sake not for any superiour jurisdiction but for the command of Christ concerning mutuall love in their necessity craved the help of their neighbour Churches and also afforded theirs to them in more weighty questions all the Churches or Elders of that Province or else the most of the Teachers came together and determined by common advice what was to be done for the faithfull in Asia saith Eusebius quoted by them in that place came often from many places together and examined the new doctrines and pronounced them wicked and rejecting the heresie they cast and excommunicated it out of the Church The Churches that were farther off in other Provinces consult with other Churches by letters which they did generally or by common consent subscribe this new prophesie saith Serapin in Euseb cited by the Cent. is refuted and rejected by all the brotherhood which is in all the world Tit. de Synodis privat each Church that things might be better ordered had their Synod or assemblies or Church-meetings in which the Rector or